Have you noticed your dishes aren't as clean?

[DarrinS]

I've had this problem for quite a while and I thought it was our dishwasher.

http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2011/02/18/dishing-woes-dont-wash-away/

Environmental douchebags strike again.





Since July, people have been wondering why their dishes are not as clean.

“I thought I needed a new dishwasher,” said Florida resident Gloria Share. “My dishes were very very filmy. I couldn’t even use them. I had to do it over by hand.”

Share wasn’t the only one. Frank Switalski of Perla’s Appliance Plus said they were getting a lot of complaints.“We were getting a lot of service calls because people were seeing film on their dishes,” said Switalski.

Now, over 7 months later, people are becoming more aware of what the problem is, and it isn’t because of their dishwashers. After studies showed that one of the key ingredients in dishwasher detergent, phosphate, was leaking into rivers and reservoirs, decreasing oxygen for fish and plants, environmentalists took a strong stand to ban the compound from detergent.

Forced to respond to a law that passed in July for 16 states, companies like Proctor and Gamble (Cascade) went back to the drawing board to create a working product that was phosphate-free.

Consumers have spent the past few months trying every trick in the book to get their dishes back to their original shine, with some tactics causing more grief than gain.

“People have come out and bought more energy efficient dishwashers, thinking that will solve it. People have been adding more soap thinking that will solve it. But when you add too much soap, it gets pumped into the motor,” said Mumma’s Appliance owner Seagrist Grace. “People are kind of clueless about detergent.”

Switalski emphasizes that if you learn a little about dishwashing detergent, the no-phosphate problem can be remedied. “As long as the rinse aid is filled or if you use Electrosol with the power ball in the center, your dishes will come out just fine.”

Other consumers have found similar solution. “I have Lemi Shine and I put that in my dishwasher and my dishes are fine,” said Share. Lemi Shine is the latest product released by Envirocon Technologies and is completely environmentally friendly, according to the manufacturer.

Several consumers told Foxnews.com that Electrosol has also been very effective post phosphate ban because it has working enzymes that cut grease and burnt on foods and includes Jet Dry Gel to produce shiny spotless glasses.

“I go online a pay $14 for the active ingredient and I add it to my detergent. I take satisfaction that I am defying ridiculous environmental rules,” said Marianne Sanders of Virginia. “I keep quiet about it though because everyone would be bent out of shape if they knew I was breaking the rules. There is nothing illegal about it, though. If you don’t use it, you actually use more water trying to get your dishes clean.”

When all else failed to find a phosphate substitute, many people went right back to the original ingredient -- some people are even selling original Cascade WITH phosphate on Ebay.

Will this black market for phosphate be enough to convince lawmakers to reverse the ban?

“This is just one sacrifice we have to make,” said Grace. Dennis Griesing of American Cleaning Institute also sees no sign of phosphate in the future.

“There is no reasonable expectation that they will go back.” So will the ban actually do any good for the environment if people are still finding a way around the ban? Only time will tell.

[Spurminator]

HOLY MOTHER OF GOD WHAT WILL WE DO WITHOUT SHINY DISHES?!?!

Wait...


Switalski emphasizes that if you learn a little about dishwashing detergent, the no-phosphate problem can be remedied. “As long as the rinse aid is filled or if you use Electrosol with the power ball in the center, your dishes will come out just fine.”

Other consumers have found similar solution. “I have Lemi Shine and I put that in my dishwasher and my dishes are fine,” said Share. Lemi Shine is the latest product released by Envirocon Technologies and is completely environmentally friendly, according to the manufacturer.

Problem solved.

Or, fuck the fishes and environmentalists. Whatever suits you.

[Hooks]

My dishwasher=My hand and a rag.

[Winehole23]

Weak. Did environmentalism cause shortages of hot water and elbow grease too?

[ElNono]

Our dishes are clean here... no dishwasher though...

[MannyIsGod]

:lmao

If I EVER read a Darrin post about feelings of entitlement again.....

[Winehole23]

lol @ blaming your dirty dishes on some dirty fucking hippies.

[MannyIsGod]

:lmao

Threads like this are so good you could never make them up.

[Winehole23]

:lmao

If I EVER read a Darrin post about feelings of entitlement again.....Is Darrin not entitled to have clean dishes from his own dishwasher?

On a side note, I wonder why he blames DFHs instead of the makers of his crappy dishwashing machine.

[RandomGuy]

Is Darrin not entitled to clean dishes from his own dishwasher?

He's entitled to making someone else pay for the pollution.

[Bender]

I thought something was wrong with my d/w a while back. all of a sudden, bad film all over everything. Had to start using that Lemi-Shine stuff in addition to cascade (stuff works great).

[coyotes_geek]

I don't really have a problem with the ban, but it's a pretty silly ban. The phosphates in your dishwasher detergent end up in the same wastewater treatment facility (or septic system) that the rest of your domestic wastewater goes to. YOU contribute more phosphates to that domestic wastewater supply than your dishwasher detergent does. Instead to worrying about phosphates in your dishwasher detergent, the simpler and much more effective approach to reducing phosphates in surface waters would be to just deal with it at the wastewater treatment plants.

That being said, getting fired up about the ban is pretty silly in it's own right.

[DarrinS]

Cleaner for the Environment, Not for the Dishes

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/19/science/earth/19clean.html

[DarrinS]

I thought something was wrong with my d/w a while back. all of a sudden, bad film all over everything. Had to start using that Lemi-Shine stuff in addition to cascade (stuff works great).


Where do they sell that stuff?

[Winehole23]

He's entitled to making someone else pay for the pollution.Or feels so entitled.

Presumably is there an underground market for illegal cleaning products, for anyone so motivated. I really don't see what's preventing DarrinS from enjoying cleaner dishes in his own home besides his earnest wish the dishwasher. or the soap, do the task for him. If he's washing by hand and complaining he's just lazy.

[DarrinS]

Presumably is there an underground market for illegal cleaning products, for anyone so motivated. I really don't see what's preventing DarrinS from enjoying cleaner dishes in his own home besides his earnest wish the dishwasher do the task for him. If he's washing by hand and complaining he's just lazy.



Crazy of me to expect a dishwasher to wash dishes.


http://warnersstellian.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/cloudyglasses.png?w=250&h=246

[MannyIsGod]

Where do they sell that stuff?

Right next to the dishwasher detergent. Very very difficult to locate.

[Winehole23]

Crazy of me to expect a dishwasher to wash dishes.It's crazier still not to adapt and overcome but whine about it here instead.

[Spurminator]

Have you noticed your new home seems a couple of degrees cooler than your old one? Have you noticed your lungs feel a little less cancery?

http://www.epa.gov/asbestos/pubs/ban.html

Stupid hippie environmentalists.

[RandomGuy]

Cleaner for the Environment, Not for the Dishes

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/19/science/earth/19clean.html


they have long ended up in lakes and reservoirs, stimulating algae growth that deprives other plants and fish of oxygen


In the world of cleaning agents, where chemicals and fragrances can pose respiratory and allergy problems as well as pollute waterways, the environmental benefits of the switch are clear. Yet the new products can run up against longtime habits and even cultural concepts of cleanliness

Reports of burns, rashes, dizziness and scratchy throats among housekeeping employees have plummeted at North Central Bronx Hospital and Jacobi Medical Center since the staff switched to new cleaning products in 2004, said Peter Lucey, an associate executive director for support services at the New York City Health and Hospitals Corporation. The number of lost days linked to injuries from the products declined from 54 in 2004 to zero last year, he said. “It’s the switch and the training,” Mr. Lucey said.


Phosphorus pollution comes from multiple sources, including fertilizer and manure that enter the water through runoff. Dishwasher detergents contribute just a fraction, but environmental campaigners say any reduction can result in a tangible improvements. (Laundry detergents and hand soaps are already free of phosphates

Something of a mixed bag.

[RandomGuy]

Crazy of me to expect a dishwasher to wash dishes.


http://warnersstellian.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/cloudyglasses.png?w=250&h=246

Pick one:

Ban on phosphates

Tax on phosphates to fund remediation of pollution caused

[MannyIsGod]

Or he could wash his dishes by hand.

[Spurminator]

None of our glasses look like that out of the dishwasher. You're doing something wrong. Did you check to see if the water is on?

[LnGrrrR]

He could use the electrasol tablets they talk about; that's what we use.

[MannyIsGod]

All very difficult solutions.

[jman3000]

I've actually noticed this with my dishes as well. I figured it had something to do with the hard water or repairs being done to the water line here at my complex.

I just go over it again with a wet towel/rag and everything's fine.

[jman3000]

You can buy these tablets at any supermarket, right?

[LnGrrrR]

You can buy these tablets at any supermarket, right?

AFAIK, yes. My wife and I get them at our BX, but they should be at your local supermarket/Walmart.

[Bender]

Where do they sell that stuff?
I've bought Lemi-shine at HEB, and at Target. Not sure where else it is, probably W-M too. Never heard of the stuff, until someone told me about it, after I mentioned my dishwasher not working anymore.

[Marcus Bryant]

So there's a readily available product that will address the change in the primary product brought about by the change in regulation of phosphate.

Yes, of all the activities of the warfare/welfare state to complain about, this is weak sauce, especially with the market already offering a solution at hand.

This thread, however, speaks to some significant matters in American society. The first is the lure of mass consumerism, and its attendant lulling of Americans into a state of perpetual adolescence. A response I can see is that after busting your ass for 60+ hours a week to pay for all this shit, you want your fing dishwasher that you paid for to work. Still, the things you used to take care of yourself you now expect to expend little effort or thought handling. Instead of figuring out how to fix something, you buy another one or you hire someone to fix it for you. Convenient, of course. But something is lost in the process. Perhaps it is self-respect. Maybe it's just the satisfaction that comes from figuring out how something works. We live in the wealthiest nation on Earth, with the store of human knowledge at our fingertips and...we don't know how to do shit for ourselves. Don't you feel a little fucking stupid when you have to hire someone to come check your A/C unit instead of being able to take care of it yourself? After all, you probably could if you bothered to do so. Anyways.

The second is the absolute politicization of American life, coupled with hyperbolic ideological purity. I'll leave it at that.

[LnGrrrR]

It's just more specialization MB. I commit a good Amy of time to just keeping in the loop on my job, plus raising a kid, plus education etc etc.

I dont know if earlier generations wouldve done the same or not. Hard to say, really. We also have a lot more entertainment products to distract us.

[baseline bum]

LOL, washing dishes by hand takes no time whatsoever if you're smart enough to take 2 seconds to rinse your plate off when you dump it in the sink. I can't believe people pay for these stupid dishwashing machines. You can sell anything to people in this country if you advertise it.

[Marcus Bryant]

It's just more specialization MB. I commit a good Amy of time to just keeping in the loop on my job, plus raising a kid, plus education etc etc.

I dont know if earlier generations wouldve done the same or not. Hard to say, really. We also have a lot more entertainment products to distract us.

True, free time is limited commodity for most. Family time versus figuring out how to fix your A/C is a good trade.

[Marcus Bryant]

Though the fact that you have to push to find family time...

[ElNono]

You people just don't understand how difficult is to memorize I have to buy another product and use it on the dishwasher... what for? To save some fish?
Since when fish is more important than shiny dishes?

[Yonivore]

I've got three dishwashers in my house. Used to have four but, one of them is serving in the military and no longer available at meal time.

[DarrinS]

Or he could wash his dishes by hand.


I could also wash my clothes by hand in a river, but I prefer the conveniences that 20th century technology provides.

[Yonivore]

I could also wash my clothes by hand in a river, but I prefer the conveniences that 20th century technology provides.
It appears your 20th Century technology is failing. I've never liked dishwashers...they never get the dishes as clean as I would like. In fact, when we did use one, I used to laugh at the fact my wife would "wash the dishes before washing the dishes." It was ridiculous

So, we just discontinued using the dishwasher as anything more than a place to dry our dishes or warm them for meals.

[DarrinS]

I've actually noticed this with my dishes as well. I figured it had something to do with the hard water or repairs being done to the water line here at my complex.

I just go over it again with a wet towel/rag and everything's fine.



My wife and I have noticed this over the last few months and we're like WTF is wrong with the stupid dishwasher.

The thing that pisses me off is that this phosphate ban went kind of "under the radar" (at least I don't remember any news about it) and I'm sure a lot of people spent money unnecessarily trying to fix an appliance that wasn't broken.

[MannyIsGod]

I've got three dishwashers in my house. Used to have four but, one of them is serving in the military and no longer available at meal time.

:lmao

[MannyIsGod]

Darrin is mad he was to stupid to solve his dishwasher issues. I love this thread.

[DarrinS]

It appears your 20th Century technology is failing. I've never liked dishwashers...they never get the dishes as clean as I would like. In fact, when we did use one, I used to laugh at the fact my wife would "wash the dishes before washing the dishes." It was ridiculous

So, we just discontinued using the dishwasher as anything more than a place to dry our dishes or warm them for meals.


Well, they don't work miracles, that's for sure.

[DarrinS]

Darrin is mad he was to stupid to solve his dishwasher issues. I love this thread.

lol

[MannyIsGod]

I'm too stupid to use grammar, the difference is I don't blame anyone else and start threads stomping my feet about it.

[MannyIsGod]

I'm not going to lie though, it definitely stings that Darrin just got over on me. FML.

[Yonivore]

Darrin is mad he was to stupid to solve his dishwasher issues. I love this thread.
C'mon, I think there is a valid point to be made about the detergent companies giving in to environmental interests and hoping the consumer wouldn't notice.

[4>0rings]

C'mon, I think there is a valid point to be made about the detergent companies giving in to environmental interests and hoping the consumer wouldn't notice.
This is actually lol.

[Mavillionaire]

Very very difficult to locate.
Just like your penis, you fat and obese fuck.

[Winehole23]

C'mon, I think there is a valid point to be made about the detergent companies giving in to environmental interests and hoping the consumer wouldn't notice.More wrong or more paranoid? Hard to tell.

Hell, some detergent companies even brag about being environmentally conscious right on the bottle. It's an effing selling point.

:rollin

[DarrinS]

More wrong or more paranoid? Hard to tell.

Hell, some detergent companies even brag about being environmentally conscious right on the bottle. It's an effing selling point.

:rollin


It's only a selling point to greentards.

[ElNono]

Environmental interests? More like complying with the law...

Sixteen states have enacted a law that requires phosphorus-free household detergents starting July 1, 2010, including: Illinois, Indiana, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Montana, New Hampshire, Ohio, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Utah, Vermont, Virginia, Washington (State), Wisconsin.

[DarrinS]

So there's a readily available product that will address the change in the primary product brought about by the change in regulation of phosphate.

Yes, of all the activities of the warfare/welfare state to complain about, this is weak sauce, especially with the market already offering a solution at hand.

This thread, however, speaks to some significant matters in American society. The first is the lure of mass consumerism, and its attendant lulling of Americans into a state of perpetual adolescence. A response I can see is that after busting your ass for 60+ hours a week to pay for all this shit, you want your fing dishwasher that you paid for to work. Still, the things you used to take care of yourself you now expect to expend little effort or thought handling. Instead of figuring out how to fix something, you buy another one or you hire someone to fix it for you. Convenient, of course. But something is lost in the process. Perhaps it is self-respect. Maybe it's just the satisfaction that comes from figuring out how something works. We live in the wealthiest nation on Earth, with the store of human knowledge at our fingertips and...we don't know how to do shit for ourselves. Don't you feel a little fucking stupid when you have to hire someone to come check your A/C unit instead of being able to take care of it yourself? After all, you probably could if you bothered to do so. Anyways.

The second is the absolute politicization of American life, coupled with hyperbolic ideological purity. I'll leave it at that.




Actually, no. It's a matter of what your time is worth. For example, almost everyone knows how to change their oil, but I'll bet you that most people pay someone else to do it.

[Winehole23]

It's only a selling point to greentards.The ones you blame your dirty dishes on. You mentioned them earlier. Is there something else you'd like to say about them?

[George Gervin's Afro]

darrins should have his thread starting ability suspended..he's reaching yonivore status when it comes to starting irrelevent threads...

[Bender]

darrins should have his thread starting ability suspended..he's reaching yonivore status when it comes to starting irrelevent threads...oh, I don't know. I'm glad this thread is here, because I had no idea why my glasses were super filmy all of a sudden. It never clicked that it must have been the new Cascade I bought.
Now due to this thread, I know why my dishes are dirty, and I have to buy second product (lemi-shine) to clean my dishes, since the main product (cascade) doesn't work any more.

I learn something every day on ST. I'm not wasting my time, no...

[DarrinS]

The ones you blame your dirty dishes on. You mentioned them earlier. Is there something else you'd like to say about them?


Was there another reason to take out the ingredient that makes detergent work?

[DarrinS]

oh, I don't know. I'm glad this thread is here, because I had no idea why my glasses were super filmy all of a sudden. It never clicked that it must have been the new Cascade I bought.


I didn't know, either. It's actually quite a relief to know the cause.

[Winehole23]

darrins should have his thread starting ability suspended..And miss out on all the laffs? Crazy talk!

[George Gervin's Afro]

Was there another reason to take out the ingredient that makes detergent work?

I have a suggestion..try a different detergent

[DarrinS]

I have a suggestion..try a different detergent


Gee, thanks Captain Obvious.

[Winehole23]

Was there another reason to take out the ingredient that makes detergent work?Dunno. Was there?

[Winehole23]

(besides the ones already mentioned upstream, of course)

[SnakeBoy]

I have a suggestion..try a different detergent

Or for about $3 he could buy a pound of TSP (trisodium phosphate) and just use around a 1/4 teaspoon of it along with his detergent.

[lazerelmo]

I use plastic plates, and cups that way I don't have to worry about my dish soap harming the environment.

:stirpot:

[LnGrrrR]

I've got three dishwashers in my house. Used to have four but, one of them is serving in the military and no longer available at meal time.

Nice one. :lol What branch?

[Shelly]

I thought something was wrong with my d/w a while back. all of a sudden, bad film all over everything. Had to start using that Lemi-Shine stuff in addition to cascade (stuff works great).

I've been using this stuff since they came out with it, and yes, it makes a big difference! I also put a little bit of Magic Shine in the bottom of the dishwasher as it helps also with hard water build up.

However, even with all this, sometimes my dishes don't come out as clean as they used to.