Neighbors Saw Anger in Girl, 9, Accused in Killing

[Xolotl]

Just heard this story now, quite tragic.....can be found here


http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/01/nyregion/01girl.html?ei=5065&en=4787bc0f9660fa6d&ex=1118289600&partner=MYWAY&pagewanted=print


The 9-year-old girl's mother was gone only briefly Monday, running upstairs to the 11th floor to borrow a hair-straightening comb to help give the girl braids before a barbecue downstairs in the courtyard.

The girl was playing with one of her closest friends, with whom she spent so much time that some thought they were related, an 11-year-old named Queen Washington. Everyone called her Queenie. In the 9-year-old's apartment on the seventh floor of the Linden Houses in East New York, Brooklyn, the two girls began to fight over a ball, the police said.

As any parent will tell, even the gentlest child has an occasional tantrum. But the 9-year-old, while bright and inventive, struck some of her neighbors as a different kind, a girl who often showed flashes of nasty, violent anger when she did not get her way.

"As long as things go in her favor, she was a sweet, beautiful young girl," said Kahindà Lannigan, 42, a retired home care worker who lives in the girl's building. "But when the tides were in favor of other children, she'll hit, kick, scratch, scream and spit. She'd hit anyone on the head with a bottle if she was fighting. She'd beat them any way she could."

Still, the adults who knew her said yesterday, no one would imagine her capable of killing.

The police said the 9-year-old stabbed Queenie in the chest with a steak knife. The blade perforated the older girl's heart, killing her as she stumbled out of the apartment and tried to make it to the elevator down the hall, the police said.

The 9-year-old appeared in court yesterday afternoon in a white T-shirt and blue jeans and with her hair pulled up, mistakenly taking a seat at the prosecution's table until she was directed to the defense table next to her mother. In a quiet voice, she stated her name and her age for the record.

Her defense lawyer, Nicole Barnum, said she expected that the girl would be formally charged with manslaughter. The girl was taken to a juvenile detention center.

After she was stabbed on Monday, Queenie made it about 40 feet down the narrow hall before she collapsed onto the pale linoleum. A neighbor, Dakim Hunter, 24, was at home when a friend knocked on the door and asked, "Why is that little girl lying on the ground?" Mr. Hunter immediately recognized Queenie, her chin to the ground, and when the two men prodded her and tried to lift her up, they saw blood on her shirt and called 911.

"When I called her name, all she said was, 'Uh,' " Mr. Hunter said. "Those were her last words."

Meanwhile, the 9-year-old girl seems to have walked past her fallen friend and stumbled, dazed and barefoot, outside, standing for a time beside a police and fire call box on Wortman Avenue in front of her building at No. 185, neighbors said.

"She looked very scared and confused," said one neighbor, Michelle Figgs.

Inside the building, her older brother, who is 15, ran out of the apartment and upstairs to the 11th floor and told his mother that his sister had stabbed Queenie. The two rushed back downstairs to their apartment, with the girl's mother hysterical, crying and vomiting, Mr. Hunter said. The girl's mother had been in the upstairs apartment for only four minutes or so, said Thomas Davis, 23, the neighbor who had lent the comb.

The two girls mostly got along fine, neighbors said, although Mr. Davis said that they scrapped at a birthday party two months ago, and that the 9-year-old's mother had told Queenie's mother, " 'If you keep bringing her over here, they're going to keep fighting.' "

And yet, as recently as Sunday, the two girls could be seen playing together. They stopped Kiara Scott, 19, a former baby sitter for the 9-year-old, and asked her to help them make up a dance to a hip-hop song. "They said 'Come back later,' and I didn't," Ms. Scott said. "Anything can happen in the blink of an eye."

The baby sitter, and others, described the 9-year-old as a bright and pleasant girl when things were going her way. She liked playing a children's game on the family Nintendo, and otherwise spent her free time as many other girls do: "Listen to music, dance, or go to a friend's house in the building or go outside in back of the building and play," Ms. Scott said. The 9-year-old and her older brother were close, and she took care of her younger brother, neighbors said.

But considering that anonymity is the norm in most New York apartment buildings, the girl made an impression on a remarkable number of her neighbors, largely because of her outbursts.

Ms. Lannigan, the neighbor, repeated a story circulating in the building about a confrontation between the girl and a teacher over a stolen cellphone. Teachers and others at the girl's school would not discuss her yesterday.

Ms. Lannigan said Queenie looked out for her younger friend: "Queenie would jump in and fight for her." For that reason, the killing stunned her all the more, she said. "I can't believe it would happen to her, because she was the only one who would tolerate and play with her," Ms. Lannigan said.

Another neighbor, Diva McPhatter, 44, a food pantry worker who lives on the same floor as the 9-year-old and her family, said she saw the girl break a glass juice bottle and use it to threaten another girl in the park near the building last summer. "She broke it and told the girl she was going to kill her," and called her an obscenity, Ms. McPhatter said.

One schoolmate, a 10-year-old boy, said the girl gave him his first and only black eye.

On average, about six children under the age of 10 have committed murder or non-negligent homicide a year in the United States since 1976, said James Alan Fox, a professor of criminal justice at Northeastern University in Boston. "They do occur," he said, "but they are rare."

The girl eventually left where she was standing by the call box, went back in the building and, still barefoot, went to Mr. Davis's apartment on the 11th floor, looking for her mother, Mr. Davis said. She told the man, " 'I had a fight with my cousin. I just stabbed her,' " he said. He asked her where, and she said she did not know. A neighbor arrived to take her downstairs.

By the time she returned to the seventh floor, the police were there, and they would not allow her into the apartment, Mr. Hunter said. "She was crying. She was saying, 'I want my mother,' " he said.

Yesterday in court, mother and daughter embraced for more than 10 seconds as the hearing began, with the girl's mother saying, "Oh, my baby." And after, they hugged again, the mother telling her daughter, "I love you, baby."

Reporting for this article was contributed by Ann Farmer, Jennifer 8. Lee, Colin Moynihan and Anahad O'Connor.

[timvp]

I want to hear someone say they want this 9-year-old to get the death penalty. I know someone is thinking it.

Whottt?

[MannyIsGod]

Man, I'm going to sit back and watch the responses to this thread.

Who's going to be the first one to make the obligatory "she knows right from wrong" observation?

[jalbre6]

That 12 year old boy in Florida that killed his six year old cousin was sentenced to life, but then later got a year's probation and house arrest under appeal. He held up a pizza delivery boy last week (house arrest, remember?) and now that he's 18, I'm very curious to see what Florida does with him.

So I guess there's a little precedent, but I dunno what NY thinks of what Florida did.

No death penalty, sure, but something a little stronger than a couple of years in juvie and an ankle monitor.

[Xolotl]

Well what do you think should happen to this little girl Manny?

[CosmicCowboy]

Well...

just to play devils advocate...

is this girl any less dead and murdered than Emmett Till?

why the disparity in emotional responses? because it was black on black? girl on girl?

[Xolotl]

Well...

just to play devils advocate...

is this girl any less dead and murdered than Emmitt Till?

why the disparity in emotional responses? because it was black on black? girl on girl?

I think the difference is those men were in their 30's or 40's. This is a 9 yr old little girl. While yes they're all murderers, you will never find a state that will put her on death row.

An idea I heard that I liked was to give this girl life in prison. And, keep her in juvy until she turns 18. Then tell her that you will suspend the life in prison to let her out on her 18th birthday. But, if she ever once more in her life commits another crime, then that life sentence that was postponed comes back. With no chance for parole.

[CosmicCowboy]

OK...lets say it was your daughter that got stabbed in the chest with a steak knife and bled to death in the hallway...

still feel so magnanimous?

[jalbre6]

On average, about six children under the age of 10 have committed murder or non-negligent homicide a year in the United States since 1976, said James Alan Fox, a professor of criminal justice at Northeastern University in Boston. "They do occur," he said, "but they are rare."

Well, what happens to these kids?

[MannyIsGod]

Man, I've pounded my head against the proverbial wall enough times, so I'm going to keep this short and sweet. I'm not sure there is a solution to be had with a 9 year old child that kills someone else. But I do not believe for an instant that a 9 year old child understands the ramifications of her actions, nor will she understand the ramifications of any punishment dealt out. She needs help, and that is the bottom line. Justice in this case doesn't involve prison time, it involves saving the life that is left.

Don't twist that into me saying she doesn't need to go into prison.

As far as the death penalty, it's illegal for anyone under 18.

[Kori Ellis]

Where do you draw the line?

If she was 17 and this happened, would death penalty be okay?

13?

9?

(and yes I understand that adults only get the penalty)

[MannyIsGod]

nevermind

[Xolotl]

Man, I've pounded my head against the proverbial wall enough times, so I'm going to keep this short and sweet. I'm not sure there is a solution to be had with a 9 year old child that kills someone else. But I do not believe for an instant that a 9 year old child understands the ramifications of her actions, nor will she understand the ramifications of any punishment dealt out. She needs help, and that is the bottom line. Justice in this case doesn't involve prison time, it involves saving the life that is left.

Don't twist that into me saying she doesn't need to go into prison.

As far as the death penalty, it's illegal for anyone under 18.

Wasn't trying to twist you into saying anything. Just wanted to know what your opinion is because for sure you had to have one.

[CosmicCowboy]

Where do you draw the line?

If she was 17 and this happened, would death penalty be okay?

13?

9?

(and yes I understand that adults only get the penalty)

especially considering that she had already been seen threatening to kill another child with a deadly weapon...

[MannyIsGod]

Wasn't trying to twist you into saying anything. Just wanted to know what your opinion is because for sure you had to have one.
That remark wasn't directed at you. It was said out of experience in dealing with these type of discussions on this board and others before. I've grown to know what to expect as a response.

[jalbre6]

Here's some interesting reading on young murderers:

http://www.karisable.com/youngmurder.htm

[Xolotl]

That remark wasn't directed at you. It was said out of experience in dealing with these type of discussions on this board and others before. I've grown to know what to expect as a response.

Ok cool just making sure, I also know how these boards get and that some people are pretty quick to get pissy :lol

[CosmicCowboy]

Manny...I am not advocating the death penalty for this girl...just pointing out the reality of the situation.

She killed a girl.
She obviously did it on purpose.
There is no "good" solution to this unnatural situation.

what will happen to her? Probably a few years of Juvie where she grows up even harder, faster, and tougher...and kills again when she gets out...are we as a "good hearted" society "taking pity" on a "child" then collectively responsible for the next death?

[MannyIsGod]

I don't think she should go to Juvie. Send her to a mental institution or something of the like. Like I said, I'm not sure there is a way to fix up a 9 year old child that has killed, but I can gaurntee you the way the system is set up now is going to end in utter failure.

[jalbre6]

A 13 year old that killed a four year old in upstate NY is in prison, convicted of 2nd degree murder, 9 to life. Eleven years later, he's still there.

Two 10 year olds in England killed a 2 year old in '93. In 2001, they were granted release on parole after being provided with false identities, concealed by law. They spent 8 years, 4 months and 10 days in secure local care homes.

The 12 year old kid I mentioned earlier in Florida was given life without parole, but then in '04 the sentence was lowered to a year of house arrest and 10 years probation.

Three different scenarios. Which do you favor?

[tlongII]

She should be impaled on a sharp stick and displayed for public viewing.

[MannyIsGod]

I favor solutions that don't involve a number 2 pencil and a scantron.

[MannyIsGod]

:lol my response was directed at the multiple choice scenario, not TLongs.

[Xolotl]

:lol I read that and was like WTF

[Kori Ellis]

Two 10 year olds in England killed a 2 year old in '93. In 2001, they were granted release on parole after being provided with false identities, concealed by law. They spent 8 years, 4 months and 10 days in secure local care homes.

That case pisses me off. Those two 10 year olds were fully aware of what they were doing. They don't deserve to be in a "witness protection" program and back in society.

[Xolotl]

That case pisses me off. Those two 10 year olds were fully aware of what they were doing. They don't deserve to be in a "witness protection" program and back in society.

But does it say if they've done anything since? I agree they knew what they were doing.

[jalbre6]

I don't think she should go to Juvie. Send her to a mental institution or something of the like. Like I said, I'm not sure there is a way to fix up a 9 year old child that has killed, but I can gaurntee you the way the system is set up now is going to end in utter failure.

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/print/0,3858,4398297-102273,00.html

Here's a link to the story of a woman in the UK who at age 11 in 1968, strangled two young boys. She was released in 1980 and has managed to lead a somewhat regular life, until it was time to tell her own 14 year old daughter what she did.

Pretty interesting dilemma.

[ObiwanGinobili]

right now she's a 9 year child with serious anger issues whose very emotionaly unstable and has a scewed view of the world.
Send her to juvie for the next 9 years and she will emerge a killer.

Other than that.. I don;t feel qualified to say what sort of punishment she should recieve. And noone will know the whole story unless they are the judege aor one of the 12 persons on the jury.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Ughh. . .


This is just sad from every angle. I don't think the 9-year old had any idea what she was doing. Now she is going to have to carry this around with her for the rest of her life.

I hate to take the typical view of blaming the parents, but in this case it was obvious to a lot of folks that this little girl had tantrum issues that needed to be addressed. Perhaps some behavior modification prior to this event would have been in order.

Chopper II has had some tantrum issues of his own and he's only 19 months old. His mom and I are working hard to curb his behavior when that happens, and we're having pretty good success with it. What we've read on the subject is that if you don't work to correct a child's behavior when they are young that children who are prone to tantrum can have their fits of rage escalate as they grow older. As an extreme example I give you Exhibit A above.

I think the little girl was operating within behavior limits that her mother had allowed up to this point. I think at 9-years old this little girl had no idea what stabbing that other girl really meant.

If this girl is charged with manslaughter her mom should probably be an accessory. Since dad isn't mentioned my guess is he probably isn't around. Charge his ass with something too.

[Jimcs50]

A 13 year old that killed a four year old in upstate NY is in prison, convicted of 2nd degree murder, 9 to life. Eleven years later, he's still there.

Two 10 year olds in England killed a 2 year old in '93. In 2001, they were granted release on parole after being provided with false identities, concealed by law. They spent 8 years, 4 months and 10 days in secure local care homes.



I remember this, the todler's name was Bugger, James, I think. My son was 2 at the time and this made me want to go kill those two devils. I hope they learned thier lessons.

[bigzak25]

nobody gave a shit about her mental well being before she murdered her friend...why start now?

that's my gut reaction.

but i understand, as tragic as this is, a 2nd life should not be wasted if it is not necessary. so lock her up for a few years and get her some mental help and hopefully, some semblance of continued education...give her 10 years probation when she gets out and if she ever kills again, we can start talking death penalty.

and yeah, i blame her mama for not teaching and controlling her daughter better...that little girl should FEAR the wrath of her parent. so many things i didn't do, were because i knew my stepdad would kick my ass if/when he found out....Godbless Queenie and Godbless this 9 year old walking tragedy...

neglect has consequences. :(

[Jimcs50]

As for this 9 yr old, I would lock her up til she was 18, then tie her fallopian tubes so she can not conceive children, and put her on probation.

Kids can make you go nuts, so I would not let her have kids, she would probably kill them the first time their pissed her off, given her psychotic temper.

[tlongII]

She should have ropes tied to each of her limbs with the other ends attached to horses. The horses should then be whipped and as they gallop away her body shall be torn apart.

[desflood]

I recall that story a few months back about a 6- or 7-year-old who had that violent outbreak at school and people had a fit because she was handcuffed and put in back of a police car. I have now had a vision of her future in the above story.

[Xolotl]

I recall that story a few months back about a 6- or 7-year-old who had that violent outbreak at school and people had a fit because she was handcuffed and put in back of a police car. I have now had a vision of her future in the above story.

Yeah I remember that story too. They shouldve tazed her ass also just like that other thread that was started :P

[jalbre6]

I recall that story a few months back about a 6- or 7-year-old who had that violent outbreak at school and people had a fit because she was handcuffed and put in back of a police car. I have now had a vision of her future in the above story.

Wasn't it a kindergartener that was trying to hit her teacher repeatedly, and the teacher and the principal didn't want to try and restrain her due to fear of a lawsuit?

[Xolotl]

Wasn't it a kindergartener that was trying to hit her teacher repeatedly, and the teacher and the principal didn't want to try and restrain her due to fear of a lawsuit?

Yes I believe so. I could be mistaking but wasn't also part of the story that she was African-American, and that the police were being racist by doing that?

[Flea]

A 9yo knows right from wrong and your typical average 9yo will not stab anyone in the heart no matter how angry they get.

This child is mentally ill as any child who commits such violent acts. She should have received help years ago because it sounds like there is a long history of violent outbursts. Unfortunately our society does not think kids can be mentally unstable......blame it all on parenting. In many cases this is the answer but sometimes you just have sick kids. You have kids that need psychiatric help and medication. Time outs, spankings, severe punishment will not work.

[E20]

The older girl was badass. I mean come on you get stabbed in the HEART and you walk 40 feet down some stairs and she managed to say "uhh"? Holy **** I'd just roll over and die. Too bad she died though.....:(

[ObiwanGinobili]

Yeah I remember that story too. They shouldve tazed her ass also just like that other thread that was started :P

You are asking for a little taste of taze arn't you? :smokin

[Xolotl]

You are asking for a little taste of taze arn't you? :smokin

:lol hell yeah you know me so well already. TAZE

[desflood]

7-year-old suspected of beating infant sister to death
By VICKIE CHACHERE, Associated Press writer

TAMPA, Fla. -- A 7-year-old boy beat his baby half-sister to death with his fists, feet and a two-by-four because he was jealous of the attention the girl was receiving and because she would not stop crying, police said yesterday.
The State Attorney's Office is deciding whether to file charges against the boy in an attack that rattled even veteran homicide detectives.
"The veteran detectives who worked on this case have never seen a case with someone as young as a 7-year-old show so much violence and so little remorse," Tampa police spokeswoman Laura McElroy said.
The attack occurred May 22 in Tampa, where the boy had been visiting his father. The seven-month-old girl was dead on arrival at the hospital where her parents rushed her.
The boy confessed to killing his sister a week later when detectives confronted him with the evidence, McElroy said.
The unidentified boy was not taken into custody and is living with his mother while prosecutors make their decision on whether to charge him.
Police said the father and his girlfriend were outside visiting with neighbors when the boy came to them about midnight on the night of the attack and told them the baby was bleeding. They found the girl with a bloody nose and said she wasn't breathing.
Hillsborough County Assistant State Attorney Pam Bondi said prosecutors were just beginning to review the case and the complex legal issues involved with bringing charges against such a young child. Among the elements prosecutors will have to consider is whether a child so young is competent to stand trial for a crime, Bondi said.
"There are a lot of issues," Bondi said. "This is the first time we have dealt with a 7-year-old accused of such a violent crime."

[MannyIsGod]

Sidenote: I would be hardpressed to say that these things happening have nothing to do with the intensity of our violent culture. While everyone is right in blaming the parents, I wonder how much shared blame could go around for our love of violence in almost every aspect of media?

[travis2]

Sidenote: I would be hardpressed to say that these things happening have nothing to do with the intensity of our violent culture. While everyone is right in blaming the parents, I wonder how much shared blame could go around for our love of violence in almost every aspect of media?

This is not directed at you, Manny...but how many times have those of us who complain about the violence in the media get shouted down?

Just as I expect us to be shouted down by the media again..."We just report the news, we aren't responsible for any of this..."

[MannyIsGod]

I'm not talking about media as in in news media, but all media (ie everything used to convery information, books, movies, etc etc).

[MannyIsGod]

Also, Travis, I feel as though attacking the outlets that display the violence is attacking the symptom of the disease. I think of far more pertinance is why are these outlets successfull? In otherwords, why do we WANT to view so much violence?

[travis2]

I'm not talking about media as in in news media, but all media (ie everything used to convery information, books, movies, etc etc).

Even better...the other "media" purveyors will scream "Change the channel!" or "Turn off the radio!" or whatever...

Whoever's ox is gored is going to scream some form of the word "Censorship" followed quickly by a :flipoff

[travis2]

Also, Travis, I feel as though attacking the outlets that display the violence is attacking the symptom of the disease. I think of far more pertinance is why are these outlets successfull? In otherwords, why do we WANT to view so much violence?

Don't get me started on permissive or non-existent parenting styles...and/or the "child-raising experts" who sell them...

[bigzak25]

"it's in your nature to destroy yourselves."

-the terminator

[Shelly]

Boy, 7, Suspected in Tot's Beating Death
Seven-Year-Old Boy Suspected of Beating Baby Half-Sister to Death With Fists, Feet and Two-By-Four
By VICKIE CHACHERE
The Associated Press

Jun. 1, 2005 - A 7-year-old boy beat his baby half-sister to death with his fists, feet and a two-by-four because he was jealous of the attention the girl was receiving and because she would not stop crying, police said Wednesday.

The State Attorney's Office is deciding whether to file charges against the boy in an attack that rattled even veteran homicide detectives.

"The veteran detectives who worked on this case have never seen a case with someone as young as a 7-year-old show so much violence and so little remorse," Tampa police spokeswoman Laura McElroy said.

The attack occurred May 22 in Tampa, where the boy had been visiting his father. Seven-month-old Jayza Laney Simms was dead on arrival at the hospital where her parents rushed her.

The boy confessed to killing his sister a week later when detectives confronted him with the evidence, McElroy said.

The unidentified boy was not taken into custody and is living with his mother while prosecutors make their decision on whether to charge him.

Police said the father and his girlfriend were outside visiting with neighbors when the boy came to them about midnight on the night of the attack and told them the baby was "bleeding." They found the girl with a bloody nose and said she wasn't breathing.

Hillsborough County State Attorney's spokeswoman Pam Bondi said prosecutors were just beginning to review the case and the complex legal issues involved with bringing charges against such a young child. Among the elements prosecutors will have to consider is whether a child so young is competent to stand trial for a crime, Bondi said.

"There are a lot of issues," Bondi said. "This is the first time we have dealt with a 7-year-old accused of such a violent crime."

Copyright 2005 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.

Copyright © 2005 ABC News Internet Ventures

[Xolotl]

I'm starting to wonder if I want to bring kids into society :p

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Why???!!!

These stories f'ing suck!!!







Depressing as hell, and that's not an exaggeration.