Religion of Peace attempts...

[Yonivore]

...to kill a bunch of Texans and possibly our former President, George W. Bush.

WMD in Texas (http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/sc-dc-0225-saudi-arrest-web-20110224,0,2336153.story)

I wonder how many more there are.

[ElNono]

You didn't accuse him of being a liberal... I guess it's a small improvement :tu

[Yonivore]

You didn't accuse him of being a liberal... I guess it's a small improvement :tu
It would not surprise me if this Jihadi become some cause celeb, of the left, down the road somewhere.

There, I didn't disappoint you, did I?

[Marcus Bryant]

Maybe he was just a disturbed young man, and misunderstood what he read, like that one in Arizona.

[jack sommerset]

Maybe he is a racist and hates white people,.

[Yonivore]

Maybe he was just a disturbed young man, and misunderstood what he read, like that one in Arizona.
I wonder if he went to Mosque and what was the tenor of the religious leader there. Admittedly, I don't yet know but, it's something we should probably learn over the coming days or weeks.

Not sure the Arizona murderer listened to anyone but his own demons.

[jack sommerset]

I wonder how many american citizens live in other countries that hate that country so much that they plot to kill their president,leaders,citizens etc and I'm not talking about anyone that works for our government.

[Marcus Bryant]

Living in Lubbock probably made him nuts.

[Spurminator]

I wonder if he went to Mosque and what was the tenor of the religious leader there. Admittedly, I don't yet know but, it's something we should probably learn over the coming days or weeks.

Well there's only one mosque in Lubbock, and it has already been vandalized several times in the last few years without provocation, so hopefully all of the locals can restrain themselves from rushing to judgment as you are pretending to do.

[Yonivore]

Well there's only one mosque in Lubbock, and it has already been vandalized several times in the last few years without provocation, so hopefully all of the locals can restrain themselves from rushing to judgment as you are pretending to do.
That Hassan character that shot all those soldiers at Fort Hood had a long distance love affair with some Mullah in the Middle East. I guess this Jihadi wouldn't have had to have had his ideas affirmed by a local Islamic Extremist.

[ElNono]

As long as you understand the difference between extremists and non-extremists... sometimes I think you like to group them all, as the title of this thread seems to indicate...

[Yonivore]

As long as you understand the difference between extremists and non-extremists... sometimes I think you like to group them all, as the title of this thread seems to indicate...
It's not like they wear name tags.

[Marcus Bryant]

As long as you understand the difference between extremists and non-extremists... sometimes I think you like to group them all, as the title of this thread seems to indicate...

Well, they all do think alike.

[Marcus Bryant]

It's not like they wear name tags.

*rimshot*

[ElNono]

It's not like they wear name tags.

Who does?

This is like concluding that all juveniles are mass murderers after the Columbine/VT murders.

Or, as tourette buttons would say, all texans are racist bubbas...

Generalizations rarely work

[ElNono]

Well, they all do think alike.

Sorry Marcus, was that tongue-in-cheek?

In case it wasn't, there's almost 2.5 million muslims in the US (actual conservative figure). I somehow doubt they're all hell bent on jihad.

[Yonivore]

Who does?

This is like concluding that all juveniles are mass murderers after the Columbine/VT murders.

Or, as tourette buttons would say, all texans are racist bubbas...

Generalizations rarely work
Actually, it's nothing like that at all.

You can find extremist Mosques throughout this country, preaching hatred and destruction for the country in which they've located themselves.

There are no organizations of juvenile mass murderers that spend an enormous amount of effort convincing others their targets are evil and should be killed.

Islam on the other hand, has a a fairly large element that does just that.

[Marcus Bryant]

Sorry Marcus, was that tongue-in-cheek?

In case it wasn't, there's almost 2.5 million muslims in the US (actual conservative figure). I somehow doubt they're all hell bent on jihad.

I'm never sarcastic.

[ElNono]

Actually, it's nothing like that at all.

You can find extremist Mosques throughout this country, preaching hatred and destruction for the country in which they've located themselves.

Since you seem to know what you're talking about, which ones?
I've heard of isolated cases that the FBI has investigated, but nothing at the scope you're implying.


There are no organizations of juvenile mass murderers that spend an enormous amount of effort convincing others their targets are evil and should be killed.

Islam on the other hand, has a a fairly large element that does just that.

How large in this country? Let's see some numbers...

[ElNono]

I'm never sarcastic.

Noted.

[Marcus Bryant]

Once upon a time a great enemy was feared, one with enough weaponry to annihilate the country in an hour, or so.

Today a new great enemy is feared, because we never got over the demise of the old.

[Marcus Bryant]

What was that about not jumping to conclusions? Oh, that didn't fit our prejudices.

[Spurminator]

Actually, it's nothing like that at all.

You can find extremist Mosques throughout this country, preaching hatred and destruction for the country in which they've located themselves.

There are no organizations of juvenile mass murderers that spend an enormous amount of effort convincing others their targets are evil and should be killed.

Islam on the other hand, has a a fairly large element that does just that.

YEAH there's like 2 MILLION OF THEM

[ElNono]

OT: Marcus, now that I see Nisbet in your avatar... Have you read "The Present Age: Progress and Anarchy in Modern America"?

[Marcus Bryant]

This country wants to be scared.

Further, conservatism at its core is appreciation and affection for life as it is. Hysteria and paranoia befit the radical.

[Marcus Bryant]

OT: Marcus, now that I see Nisbet in your avatar... Have you read "The Present Age: Progress and Anarchy in Modern America"?

No. It's on the list. Did you enjoy it?

[Yonivore]

Since you seem to know what you're talking about, which ones?
I've heard of isolated cases that the FBI has investigated, but nothing at the scope you're implying.

How large in this country? Let's see some numbers...

Muslim Extremism in America: A Suggested Agenda for Congressional Hearings (http://www.newenglishreview.org/custpage.cfm/frm/7938/sec_id/7938)

Chocked full of links. Have fun.

[Yonivore]

This country wants to be scared.

Further, conservatism at its core is appreciation and affection for life as it is. Hysteria and paranoia befit the radical.
The Fort Dix Six, Hassan, this Jihadi today...all figments of this fear?

[Marcus Bryant]

The country is still standing, no?

[baseline bum]

If you're scared, get a dog.

[ElNono]

No. It's on the list. Did you enjoy it?

I stopped at a Borders the other day and read the summary on the back, and I regret not picking it up. I was hoping you would have read it to give me an opinion. I think I'll just pick it up next time.

[Yonivore]

The country is still standing, no?
Not the point.

Your attitude suggests the concerns over Islamic extremists are unfounded. Does the country have to be completely destroyed before you would change that view?

That seems to be your absolutist view. Do you reject the premise there are Islamic Extremists actively seeking to perpetrate terrorist acts, large or small, on targets within the United States?

[ElNono]

Muslim Extremism in America: A Suggested Agenda for Congressional Hearings (http://www.newenglishreview.org/custpage.cfm/frm/7938/sec_id/7938)

Chocked full of links. Have fun.

That's a 2007 article talking about Congressional hearings on Muslim extremism...

I gather you've read through the whole thing... can you point out where it indicates the proportion of Muslims turning extremist?

[ElNono]

Not the point.

Your attitude suggests the concerns over Islamic extremists are unfounded. Does the country have to be completely destroyed before you would change that view?

That seems to be your absolutist view. Do you reject the premise there are Islamic Extremists actively seeking to perpetrate terrorist acts, large or small, on targets within the United States?

I think everyone is concerned with extremists (and not just those of Islam).

That said, your suggestion seems to be that any member of that religion is an extremist. And that is simply not true.

[Yonivore]

That's a 2007 article talking about Congressional hearings on Muslim extremism...

I gather you've read through the whole thing... can you point out where it indicates the proportion of Muslims turning extremist?
No, haven't followed many of the links.

I'm satisfied the problem is significant enough to warrant concern. You're free to disagree.

A California Imam testified, in 1999, that 80% of American Mosques were radicalized.


In testimony before the U.S. State Department in 1999, Muhammad Hisham Kabbani, chairman of the Islamic Supreme Council of America, affirmed most of the mosques in the U.S. are run by extremists.

"We would like to advise our government, our congressmen, that there is something big going on and people do not understand it," he said. "You have many mosques around the United States...So the most dangerous things are going on in these mosques that have self appointed leaders throughout the United States. The extremist ideology makes them very active. We can say that they took over 80 per cent of the mosques in the United States...This means that the ideology of extremism has been spread to the youth and the new generation."
Mediamatters.com refuted the claim by saying the Imam later recanted, indicating he was only referring to sympathy with the Palestinian cause. Read the above quote and find where he refers to the Palestinian cause.

Pew Research conducted a poll where a full 25% of young Muslims, in America, supported martyrdom by suicide bombing.

[Yonivore]

I think everyone is concerned with extremists (and not just those of Islam).

That said, your suggestion seems to be that any member of that religion is an extremist. And that is simply not true.
I never said that and, with you, I don't believe that is true either.

I do believe it is true that many are. I also believe it's true there is no concerted effort, on the part of non-violent or moderate Muslims, to differentiate themselves from their violent co-religionists. Hence, my name tag snark earlier.

[Yonivore]

(and not just those of Islam).
With which other extremists do you find yourself concerned?

[Spurminator]

Well that must mean they support martyrdom by suicide bombing America. It's clearly a direct correlation.

[Yonivore]

Well that must mean they support martyrdom by suicide bombing America. It's clearly a direct correlation.
To support suicide martyrdom in pursuit of Jihad, at all, should be a concern -- I'm not sure Pew differentiated between which targets would be suitable for such action -- but, that aside, it wasn't the only point of my post.

[ElNono]

No, haven't followed many of the links.

I'm satisfied the problem is significant enough to warrant concern. You're free to disagree.

A California Imam testified, in 1999, that 80% of American Mosques were radicalized.

Mediamatters.com refuted the claim by saying the Imam later recanted, indicating he was only referring to sympathy with the Palestinian cause. Read the above quote and find where he refers to the Palestinian cause.


So the supporting evidence of your fear is a 12 year old claim from a California Imam?

Whatever drives your confirmation bias, I guess...


Pew Research conducted a poll where a full 25% of young Muslims, in America, supported martyrdom by suicide bombing.

You mean this (http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/256291/some_us_muslims_justify_suicide_bombing.html?cat=3 4) poll?

Besides of the fact that it's still a vast minority, you do realize that if some find it justifiable in some instances doesn't mean they're willing to go out there and do it themselves, right?

I mean... the proof is in reality. More people have been murdered from your local homicides than terrerist attacks for the past 10+ years. You would think that if 2.5 million are hell bent on destroying the country you would have seen more than just a few of isolated incidents.

But if you choose to live scared of the big ugly Islam clerk in 7-11, then by all mean don't let me stand in the way between you and your bigotry.

[ElNono]

I never said that and, with you, I don't believe that is true either.

I was under the impression that the thread title was a referencing to the religion, and thus it's followers as a whole.
Should we interpret that when you say the "Religion of Peace", you mean only the extremist elements in them?


I do believe it is true that many are. I also believe it's true there is no concerted effort, on the part of non-violent or moderate Muslims, to differentiate themselves from their violent co-religionists. Hence, my name tag snark earlier.

What do you suggest they do to differentiate themselves?
How do you prevent the extremist types from not doing the same?

[Yonivore]

But if you choose to live scared of the big ugly Islam clerk in 7-11, then by all mean don't let me stand in the way between you and your bigotry.
Hey there Mr. Vice President!

Yeah, I'm the bigot.

The fact there have been numerous incidents involving Islamic Extremist terrorists, in the United States, since that 1999 statement -- Congressional testimony, actually -- tends to support there is source for this extremism in our country.

Continue to live in denial. They want to kill you too.

[ElNono]

With which other extremists do you find yourself concerned?

The kind that sends Anthrax letters through the mail and we've not identified yet. The Unabomber kind. The McVeigh kind. The Skinheads kind.

The bubbas that come around here talking about shooting immigrants on sight come to mind too.

[Yonivore]

I was under the impression that the thread title was a referencing to the religion, and thus it's followers as a whole.

Should we interpret that when you say the "Religion of Peace", you mean only the extremist elements in them?
Do you understand satire?


What do you suggest they do to differentiate themselves?

How do you prevent the extremist types from not doing the same?
It wouldn't hurt for the moderate Muslims to expose the radical, extremists Mosques and Imams. That would probably differentiate the two groups with a fairly bright line.

The extremists are welcome to do the reverse and expose the moderate Mosques. However, I don't see that as the result and, possibly, neither do the moderates -- which could be the source of their reticence.

[ElNono]

Hey there Mr. Vice President!

Yeah, I'm the bigot.

Watch out... next time you're buying a six pack, don't forget he's out to get you!


The fact there have been numerous incidents involving Islamic Extremist terrorists, in the United States, since that 1999 statement -- Congressional testimony, actually -- tends to support there is source for this extremism in our country.

Nobody is denying that there could be a source for extremism in this country. That doesn't equate to labeling every worshiper of said religion as one.


Continue to live in denial. They want to kill you too.

I interact with different Muslims throughout the day. Pretty much impossible not to around these places. What do you suggest that I do? Lock myself up at home?

[Yonivore]

Nobody is denying that there could be a source for extremism in this country. That doesn't equate to labeling every worshiper of said religion as one.
It doesn't matter how many times you try to mischaracterize my premise, I never said every Muslim was an extremist.


I interact with different Muslims throughout the day. Pretty much impossible not to around these places. What do you suggest that I do? Lock myself up at home?
Did I say that?

[ElNono]

Do you understand satire?

I thought it was, until you tried to start explaining how they're all seemingly alike.


It wouldn't hurt for the moderate Muslims to expose the radical, extremists Mosques and Imams. That would probably differentiate the two groups with a fairly bright line.

Has it occurred to you that maybe the do? And maybe the actual extremists are such a small amount which is what makes them hard to track down?


The extremists are welcome to do the reverse and expose the moderate Mosques. However, I don't see that as the result and, possibly, neither do the moderates -- which could be the source of their reticence.

What's stopping the extremists from pretending to be moderates on their daily lives?

[ElNono]

It doesn't matter how many times you try to mischaracterize my premise, I never said every Muslim was an extremist.

I've done no such thing. You've gotten into this all by yourself.


Did I say that?

You said they want to kill me too. I'm asking what should I do to avoid them, seeing that since we can't seemingly tell the good from the bad, we should be fearing them all.

[Yonivore]

I thought it was, until you tried to start explaining how they're all seemingly alike.
Never said that.


Has it occurred to you that maybe the do? And maybe the actual extremists are such a small amount which is what makes them hard to track down?
Yes, that's occurred to me. Can you point to an instance when this has occurred?


What's stopping the extremists from pretending to be moderates on their daily lives?
Nothing. This Lubbock Jihadi apparently fit right in. Hassan was getting his extremism fed to him over the internet. The 19 hijackers of 9-11 spent a great deal of time trying to blend in before the act.

Your initial response is to dismiss the concern as some type of Right wing phobia. It's obvious, the threat is real. It's just as obvious there doesn't seem to be a concerted effort on the part of our government or the moderate Muslim community to even acknowledge the danger -- much less do anything about it, except criticize those who express the concern as Islamophobes.

[Yonivore]

I've done no such thing. You've gotten into this all by yourself.
Where did I suggest all Muslims are extremists?


You said they want to kill me too. I'm asking what should I do to avoid them, seeing that since we can't seemingly tell the good from the bad, we should be fearing them all.
Denial seems to work for you just fine.

Thank God there are law enforcement elements who aren't in denial and are willing to sift through the mountains of leads that allow them to stop Jihadis such as the one they caught today.

[Stringer_Bell]

Hey there Mr. Vice President!

Yeah, I'm the bigot.

The fact there have been numerous incidents involving Islamic Extremist terrorists, in the United States, since that 1999 statement -- Congressional testimony, actually -- tends to support there is source for this extremism in our country.

Continue to live in denial. They want to kill you too.

Being afraid that brown people with beards want to blow you up is like being black man who is afraid that the manager at American Eagle is going to put him to work on the cotton farm. It's irrational. Terrorists aren't caught by average citizens that walk around fearing the threat of extremism will engulf their country, their malls, and their homes...these terrorists are stupid and ineffectual.

Think of all the shit you can't stand, the shit that upsets you and frustrates you into believing the world is terrible place...you can't raise your fist to it, put a bomb on it, and its the same with the vast majority of people with intellectually motivated Anti-American sentiments. They ain't doing shit even though they're saying shit. The crazy ones, on the other hand, will be caught - are being caught, because they aren't operating within normal ranges of behavior and give themselves away or are too fucking stupid to do anything right. Jihad is not "Holy War," it's not the in Worship. Murdering is not Islam and you are not observant. And you are not a Muslim.

[ElNono]

Never said that.


It's not like they wear name tags.



Yes, that's occurred to me. Can you point to an instance when this has occurred?

I don't think police reveals the identity of who gives them tips. That obviously doesn't automatically mean it doesn't happen.


Nothing. This Lubbock Jihadi apparently fit right in. Hassan was getting his extremism fed to him over the internet. The 19 hijackers of 9-11 spent a great deal of time trying to blend in before the act.

Exactly. So we can't really tell them apart at first sight. Should we fear them all then?


Your initial response is to dismiss the concern as some type of Right wing phobia. It's obvious, the threat is real. It's just as obvious there doesn't seem to be a concerted effort on the part of our government or the moderate Muslim community to even acknowledge the danger -- much less do anything about it, except criticize those who express the concern as Islamophobes.

My initial response was tongue-in-cheek. I think the irrational fear of anything Muslim goes far beyond the left or right.
We started this back and forth after pointing out that the thread title seemed to engulf all Muslims, not just the extremist.


Where did I suggest all Muslims are extremists?

The thread title? Now, relabeled as sarcasm...


Denial seems to work for you just fine.

Thank God there are law enforcement elements who aren't in denial and are willing to sift through the mountains of leads that allow them to stop Jihadis such as the one they caught today.

I commend the work LE has done to identify and stop these people. Then again, that's their job, right?

Feel free to call it denial or whatever you want. I simply call it not to being scared.

I guess we'll agree to disagree on this one.

[ChumpDumper]

Where did I suggest all Muslims are extremists?Thread title, you fucking idiot.

[LnGrrrR]

Wait, what religion is the religion of peace again? Is that the one that talks about bombing whatever middle eastern country doesn't agree with us?

Forgive me, being an atheist, I get these religions mixed up from time to time.

[LnGrrrR]

Do you reject the premise there are Islamic Extremists actively seeking to perpetrate terrorist acts, large or small, on targets within the United States?

Yoni, do you affirm or reject the premise that there are Christian extremists actively seeking to perpetrate terrorist acts, large or small, on targets within the United States?

[LnGrrrR]

A California Imam testified, in 1999, that 80% of American Mosques were radicalized.

Ppffft you know those Imams. They'll say anything to get on the news. They're kinda like Lt Colonels in that way.

[LnGrrrR]

It wouldn't hurt for the moderate Muslims to expose the radical, extremists Mosques and Imams. That would probably differentiate the two groups with a fairly bright line.

Maybe those moderate Muslims should do something to reach out to the community. Maybe they should build a mosque or something... perhaps in NYC? I seem to remember hearing something about that... :lol

[Marcus Bryant]

Not the point.

Your attitude suggests the concerns over Islamic extremists are unfounded. Does the country have to be completely destroyed before you would change that view?


My attitude is that this is not anything close to the seriousness of the Cold War, all of your fear mongering to the contrary.

And your attitude has done plenty to destroy the country already.

The real risk seems to be what we can do to ourselves when we jump at every single possible threat. you can't eliminate them all.



That seems to be your absolutist view. Do you reject the premise there are Islamic Extremists actively seeking to perpetrate terrorist acts, large or small, on targets within the United States?

I reject the premise that I should give a damn.

[boutons_deux]

There Yoni goes again, slandering an entire religion because one 20-year-old kid was gonna WMD on the entire USA.

I can play that game: Congress should have hearings on restraining UCA Christianity, aka The Religion of Christ (that only follows the OLD Testament), because Westboro Baptist Church absolutely typifies all Christians.

scared-shitless dickless Yoni, his anus letting go because of a 20-year old kid.

[boutons_deux]

There Yoni goes again, slandering an entire religion because one 20-year-old kid was gonna WMD on the entire USA.

I can play that game: Congress should have hearings on restraining UCA Christianity, aka The Religion of Christ (that only follows the Christless OLD Testament), because Westboro Baptist Church absolutely typifies all Christians.

scared-shitless dickless Yoni, his anus letting go because of a 20-year old kid.

[George Gervin's Afro]

great thread yoni.. now we know there are muslim exremists that want to kill us... a few may be in the US..shocking revelation..:rolleyes

[TeyshaBlue]

Thread title, you fucking idiot.

Wait! That's satire!





....for now.

[EVAY]

Living in Lubbock probably made him nuts.

+1 My exact reaction when I read about this guy.

[Wild Cobra]

It would not surprise me if this Jihadi become some cause celeb, of the left, down the road somewhere.

There, I didn't disappoint you, did I?
I'm sure leftist trial lawyers will be lining up to be the man that got him off. To find a man not guilty who planed to kill a president.

[George Gervin's Afro]

I'm sure leftist trial lawyers will be lining up to be the man that got him off. To find a man not guilty who planed to kill a president.

as oppsed to right wing defense attorneys?

[Marcus Bryant]

One wonders how this thread would have progressed had the accused been kinda WASPy and the president, the current one.

[Yonivore]

My attitude is that this is not anything close to the seriousness of the Cold War, all of your fear mongering to the contrary.
I don't recall the Communists reducing 2, 110 story buildings to rubble or killing thousands of Americans on our homeland.


I reject the premise that I should give a damn.
Then don't; I suspect you'd be pretty useless anyway.

[Yonivore]

One wonders how this thread would have progressed had the accused been kinda WASPy and the president, the current one.
If he were a Jihadi, about the same, I suspect.

[Marcus Bryant]

I don't recall the Communists reducing 2, 110 story buildings to rubble or killing thousands of Americans on our homeland.

It's 9/11 every day. Rejoice!





Then don't; I suspect you'd be pretty useless anyway.

This nihilist terrorist threat must be defeated.

[Oh, Gee!!]

a religion, not a 20 year-old douche, planned several attacks across the u.s. btw, kudos to the fbi for catching this idiot. and by idiot I mean Arabs.