DIRT should be MVP, not Rose

[poop]

im not quite sure why everyone has jumped on the Rose for MVP bandwagon. is he a candidate? sure, but i dont understand how hes the front runner.

look at my most hated team, the mavs.

started 24-5 with Dirt.

Dirt goes down, the mavs go 2-7.

Dirt comes back, they immediately start winning again despite losing a key player for the season.

Mavs without Dirt: 2-7

Mavs with Dirt: 39-9

Bulls record: 39-17
Mavs record: 41-16

even though i hate their team, to me it is pretty clear that of all the top teams, Dirt is the MVP so far this year.

[JamStone]

I think Rose is getting a lot of credit because Boozer has missed 18 games and Noah missed 30 games and the Bulls still look like an elite team in the league. I don't know if I say Rose is the frontrunner, but I don't have a problem with anyone who believes that.

[poop]

also Rose has a 20-10 guy on his team as well, Lebron has DWAYNE WADE on his team putting up huge numbers, Howard's team does not have a good enough record, Gasol is just as important to the lakers as kobe is, etc...

there is no one on the Mavs even CLOSE to Dirt.

Dirt for MVP.

[Phillip]

Mavs have also faced perhaps the toughest schedule in the NBA to date.

I'd say Dirk and Rose should definitely be the 2 leaders for MVP, but from what I've heard, its Rose, Lebron, Howard, then Dirk is tied with Amare in the race. Lame.

[poop]

I think Rose is getting a lot of credit because Boozer has missed 18 games and Noah missed 30 games and the Bulls still look like an elite team in the league. I don't know if I say Rose is the frontrunner, but I don't have a problem with anyone who believes that.

they only look good NOW. you know, now that they have a 20-10 guy and Noah back. they are as much a reason for the teams new 'elite' status.

i cant see how Rose's case is any better than Dirts. the Mavs have a better record, lost a top scorer for the season and there is nobody else on the Mavs even close to dirt as far as numbers or impact.

[poop]

Mavs have also faced perhaps the toughest schedule in the NBA to date.

I'd say Dirk and Rose should definitely be the 2 leaders for MVP, but from what I've heard, its Rose, Lebron, Howard, then Dirk is tied with Amare in the race. Lame.

lebron is up there based on pure name hype alone. you cant be the mvp if you have fucking dwayne wade on your team also putting up mvp numbers. if he gets it the MVP award will have gone the way of the DPOY award...

[Bill_Brasky]

If Rose had gone down with an injury we'd see the impact there too....even with Boozer and Noah on the team they would be a .500 team at best. I agree Dirt should be higher in the discussion, but still believe that Rose > Dirt.

[poop]

If Rose had gone down with an injury we'd see the impact there too....even with Boozer and Noah on the team they would be a .500 team at best. I agree Dirt should be higher in the discussion, but still believe that Rose > Dirt.

what is your reasoning?

this Bulls team without rose would be better than the Mavs without Dirt, and even as it stands now, with Dirt missing 9 games the Mavs STILL have a better record than the Bulls.

there is simply no factual or statistical reasons to place Rose ahead of Dirt, besides big name/big city hype/bias.

hell right now NBA.com has lebron and even KOBE ahead of Dirt in the MVP race :rolleyes

[Crytek]

Since there are no clearcut scientific criteria for the "MVP" Award, it's great for arguing who "should" get it.

However, selected Media Member do the voting, so you can forget that Dirk will ever win again.
Rose is currently a pretty popular pick.

[Texas_Ranger]

Agree!

[Jt.ONE]

if dirk gets 3x MVPs i swear to god....:bang

[Koolaid_Man]

I for one am pushing for Rose...because I firmly beleive it will be LA vs. CHI in the finals this year...and if history tells us anything it's that the winner of the last 5 or so MVP's simply never win the title...

lol

[hitmanyr2k]

what is your reasoning?

this Bulls team without rose would be better than the Mavs without Dirt, and even as it stands now, with Dirt missing 9 games the Mavs STILL have a better record than the Bulls.

there is simply no factual or statistical reasons to place Rose ahead of Dirt, besides big name/big city hype/bias.

hell right now NBA.com has lebron and even KOBE ahead of Dirt in the MVP race :rolleyes

I doubt that Bulls team would be any better without Rose than the Mavs without Dirk. The Bulls team as it is really have no one else who can handle the ball. They don't have many reliable scorers. Rose draws a ton of defensive attention which frees up guys like Deng, Bogans ( :depressed ), Korver, Boozer, etc.

Rose is probably over Dirk for these reasons....

1. The Bulls have been bitten by the injury bug all year yet remain one of the top teams.

2. Rose has been very durable and has only missed one game the entire year

3. If you want to talk stats when you get right down to it Rose has to do more for his team. Score, be a playmaker, he damn near rebounds as much as Dirk despite giving up a 8-9 inch height difference, blocks as many shots despite that height difference, etc. He's just as valuable (if not more valuable) as Dirk to his team.

[024]

rose is overrated. dirk and lebron should be the only ones on top.

[JayTheClown]

I doubt that Bulls team would be any better without Rose than the Mavs without Dirk. The Bulls team as it is really have no one else who can handle the ball. They don't have many reliable scorers. Rose draws a ton of defensive attention which frees up guys like Deng, Bogans ( :depressed ), Korver, Boozer, etc.

Rose is probably over Dirk for these reasons....

1. The Bulls have been bitten by the injury bug all year yet remain one of the top teams.

2. Rose has been very durable and has only missed one game the entire year

3. If you want to talk stats when you get right down to it Rose has to do more for his team. Score, be a playmaker, he damn near rebounds as much as Dirk despite giving up a 8-9 inch height difference, blocks as many shots despite that height difference, etc. He's just as valuable (if not more valuable) as Dirk to his team.

:lmao stupid comment

So a team with Carlos Boozer, Joakim Noah, and Liol Deng is more dependant on their superstar than a team with Jason Terry, an old Jason Kidd, and Tyson Chandler? I understand 2 of the guys I mentioned on the Bulls have been injured. I'm commented on your bold statement that Rose is more valuable to his team then Dirk.

In a world where Carlos Boozer and Noah aren't injured, but Rose is injured. All the Bulls needs to do is plug in a decent PG and the Bulls still have at least a shot to make the playoffs in the east. The Mavericks on the over hand would be a bottom feeder team in the west without Dirk. Hell they would be a bottom feeder team in the east too. :rollin

[hitmanyr2k]

:lmao stupid comment

So a team with Carlos Boozer, Joakim Noah, and Liol Deng is more dependant on their superstar than a team with Jason Terry, an old Jason Kidd, and Tyson Chandler? I understand 2 of the guys I mentioned on the Bulls have been injured. I'm commented on your bold statement that Rose is more valuable to his team then Dirk.

Yeah, they are. And I'm not sure why you're counting Boozer and Noah together since they haven't really played together all year. One of the other has been out. And does Dirk have to set up the offense? Nope. Does he have to do much playmaking and breaking down the defense? Nope. Does Dirk have to rebound? Looking at his numbers...not much :lol Dirk scores 23 a game and really doesn't do much else. Is he a mismatch from hell on offense? Sure. Other than that what else does he do that's above average?


In a world where Carlos Boozer and Noah aren't injured, but Rose is injured. All the Bulls needs to do is plug in a decent PG and the Bulls still have at least a shot to make the playoffs in the east. The Mavericks on the over hand would be a bottom feeder team in the west without Dirk. Hell they would be a bottom feeder team in the east too. :rollin

Well Rose hasn't been in that world all season long. If Rose is injured you would have to find a "decent" PG that could set up the offense, score 20+, handle 2-3 defenders being thrown at him nightly and make up for a 2 guard core that aren't really scorers. That's a tall order...but Rose has basically done this all season either without Boozer or without Noah so....that's why he's being considered for MVP.

I mean you saying something as stupid as plug in a decent PG on that Bulls team is like me saying plug in a "decent" PF that scores 20+ and is a subpar rebounder and defender on the Mavs and they're home free :lol

[Bill_Brasky]

Yeah, they are. And I'm not sure why you're counting Boozer and Noah together since they haven't really played together all year. One of the other has been out. And does Dirk have to set up the offense? Nope. Does he have to do much playmaking and breaking down the defense? Nope. Does Dirk have to rebound? Looking at his numbers...not much :lol Dirk scores 23 a game and really doesn't do much else. Is he a mismatch from hell on offense? Sure. Other than that what else does he do that's above average?



Well Rose hasn't been in that world all season long. If Rose is injured you would have to find a "decent" PG that could set up the offense, score 20+, handle 2-3 defenders being thrown at him nightly and make up for a 2 guard core that aren't really scorers. That's a tall order...but Rose has basically done this all season either without Boozer or without Noah so....that's why he's being considered for MVP.

I mean you saying something as stupid as plug in a decent PG on that Bulls team is like me saying plug in a "decent" PF that scores 20+ and is a subpar rebounder and defender on the Mavs and they're home free :lol

This. Watch a bulls game and then watch a mavs game. You will clearly see rose is the superior player. Hasn't had boozer and Noah healthy all season and bogans starting yet they still wreck shop.

[Ron Jeremy]

Rose blows away Dirk in talent.

[poop]

rose is overrated. dirk and lebron should be the only ones on top.

why in the fuck should lebron be a top MVP contender WHEN THERE IS ANOTHER MVP-ESQUE PLAYER ON HIS SAME TEAM?

jesus christ i feel like im taking crazy pills here.


miami with just Wade won 50 games.

take Rose of this chicago team and they still make the playoffs top 6 seed.

take Dirt off the Mavs and they would be a 30-win team

[greensborohill]

I doubt that Bulls team would be any better without Rose than the Mavs without Dirk. The Bulls team as it is really have no one else who can handle the ball. They don't have many reliable scorers. Rose draws a ton of defensive attention which frees up guys like Deng, Bogans ( :depressed ), Korver, Boozer, etc.

Rose is probably over Dirk for these reasons....

1. The Bulls have been bitten by the injury bug all year yet remain one of the top teams.

2. Rose has been very durable and has only missed one game the entire year

3. If you want to talk stats when you get right down to it Rose has to do more for his team. Score, be a playmaker, he damn near rebounds as much as Dirk despite giving up a 8-9 inch height difference, blocks as many shots despite that height difference, etc. He's just as valuable (if not more valuable) as Dirk to his team.

I call bullshit. Rose isn't even in the top 50 in the NBA in adjusted +/- , he's +1.98. When he'sin the game his team outscores the opponent by 6.83, when he's out his team still outscores the opponent by 4.85.

In contrast Dirk is third in the entire NBA behind Nash & Pierce. Outscoring by 11.08 while playing and getting outscored 6.79 while he sits. Couple that with a 41-16 record, 2-7 w/o him, and that's a MVP.

[greensborohill]

Rose blows away Dirk in talent.

God given physical gifts,perhaps. . . but what does that say about Rose that despite the supposed lack of talent Dirk is just as good if not better than he is?

[Jodelo]

Dirk shoots 53, 42, 88 and 62 TS%. Rose is shooting 45% even know Dirk shoots way tougher shots than he does, just sayin.

Kobe ahead of Dirk = :rollin:lol:lol:lol

Dirk for me, as he can turn it on when he needs to and if not he just takes less shots and gives others the opportunity to produce!

[024]

why in the fuck should lebron be a top MVP contender WHEN THERE IS ANOTHER MVP-ESQUE PLAYER ON HIS SAME TEAM?

jesus christ i feel like im taking crazy pills here.


miami with just Wade won 50 games.

take Rose of this chicago team and they still make the playoffs top 6 seed.

take Dirt off the Mavs and they would be a 30-win team
by your logic, take lebron off the cavs and they are a 15-win team. lebron still looks better by comparison.

[mystargtr34]

TBH if Dirt doesnt get injured the Mavs are neck and neck with the Spurs for the 1st seed and sitting at about 50-10... and that would probaby put him on par with LeBron and Rose for the MVP.

Overall... i think Dwight Howard may be the real MVP of the league... since he has 10x more impact defensively then anybody else in the discussion - but voters and fans seem to completely discredit defense these days. Having said that.. the poor play of his team mates has obviously cost him a shot at the MVP.. but the Magic could still win 55 games which would make him eligible.

[ducks]

im not quite sure why everyone has jumped on the Rose for MVP bandwagon. is he a candidate? sure, but i dont understand how hes the front runner.

look at my most hated team, the mavs.

started 24-5 with Dirt.

Dirt goes down, the mavs go 2-7.

Dirt comes back, they immediately start winning again despite losing a key player for the season.

Mavs without Dirt: 2-7

Mavs with Dirt: 39-9

Bulls record: 39-17
Mavs record: 41-16

even though i hate their team, to me it is pretty clear that of all the top teams, Dirt is the MVP so far this year.
if dirk was not german would you say that?


rose is by far the mvp

[Pelicans78]

if dirk was not german would you say that?


rose is by far the mvp

Stop FOOling yourself dude. Dirk is clearly the MVP right now. Way more valuable than Rose.

[ducks]

LOL


dirk got hurt with butler already out

rose is the engine
point guards are the engines of the team

[Pelicans78]

LOL


dirk got hurt with butler already out

rose is the engine
point guards are the engines of the team

Rose is basically a SG out there. The Bulls team defense is the engine. Rose just happens to make plays late to win it.

Even without Butler, the Mavs are winning with Dirk back.

[4>0rings]

http://www.businesspundit.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/dirk2.jpg

[poop]

by your logic, take lebron off the cavs and they are a 15-win team. lebron still looks better by comparison.

and thats why he deserved his two MVPS while he was there. but no way he should win it (or even be top 3) THIS YEAR, when he has a teammate who is a top 5 overall nba player who is dropping 40 point games left and right and also putting up MVP numbers.

and why the fuck is Kobe even in the discussions???

[greensborohill]

I call bullshit. Rose isn't even in the top 50 in the NBA in adjusted +/- , he's +1.98. When he'sin the game his team outscores the opponent by 6.83, when he's out his team still outscores the opponent by 4.85.

In contrast Dirk is third in the entire NBA behind Nash & Pierce. Outscoring by 11.08 while playing and getting outscored 6.79 while he sits. Couple that with a 41-16 record, 2-7 w/o him, and that's a MVP.

Adjusted +/-

[hitmanyr2k]

Rose is basically a SG out there.


Of course Rose has to make up for the lack of a SG. Who else is going to break the defense down? Keith Bogans? Ronnie Brewer? They don't have the ball-handling skill. Why do you think Bulls fans were clamoring for a trade to get a good SG? It's a glaring hole in the offense.



The Bulls team defense is the engine. Rose just happens to make plays late to win it.

And Rose's defense is apart of that engine. It's just another thing that Rose does that Dirk doesn't. Since some of you love stats so much and all that +/- bullshit here's one for you....

http://offthedribble.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/01/19/rose-dwarfs-other-improvements-with-defense/



What’s so remarkable about Rose isn’t that he improved defensively (incremental gains are pretty much assumed as young players become more comfortable), but that he improved so early and so rapidly. Rose is just 22, and a year removed from being a part-time liability on the defensive end. Not only has he shattered expectations for his defensive improvement this season, but Rose has a legitimate claim as a plus defender while playing at the most difficult position in the league. Gone are the lethargic sequences where Rose dawdled around a screen or launched into the air at the slightest pump fake. Rose has made a legitimately positive defensive impact, and he has the numbers to prove it.

Joakim Noah, thought to be the single key to the Bulls’ defensive success, has played only 24 of 41 games this season, and yet Chicago is still best in the league in points allowed per 100 possessions. Rose doesn’t deserve all of the credit, but the perimeter trio of Rose, Ronnie Brewer, and Luol Deng has made things tough for opposing teams. It’s a matter of necessity; Chicago’s offense isn’t good enough to keep it afloat, and its defense provides the most consistent path toward victory. If Rose were still a defensive sieve, the Bulls would be struggling without Noah. If Rose were merely a moderately successful defender, the Bulls wouldn’t have the top defense and the third seed in the Eastern Conference. It’s taken every bit of Rose’s defensive improvement to keep the Bulls rolling despite significant injuries to both Noah and Carlos Boozer, but he’s quickly taken to Thibodeau’s famed defensive system and delivered in a big way.

More outstanding yet are Rose’s individual defensive numbers. According to Synergy Sports Technology, Rose has allowed just 0.77 points per possession overall on defense this season, an elite mark for any defender, regardless of position. Chris Paul (0.86 points per possession allowed), Rajon Rondo (0.83 PPP allowed), and Russell Westbrook (0.92 PPP allowed) –- all excellent defenders -– have been trumped statistically this year, and by no slim margin. Rose has each of those players handily beat, and boasts a shockingly comprehensive defensive profile.

Rose is particularly effective in defending isolation sequences, where he allows just 0.61 points per possession. Rose’s lateral quickness becomes a huge asset when opponents go one-on-one. In this sequence, watch how Rose goes over the pick with the Sixers’ Jrue Holiday, and yet still stays with him step for step as he drives into the lane:

p_T52mU6tCU

Admittedly, part of the reason Rose does so well against isolated opponents is his focus. Rose still wanders mentally from time to time, but having an opponent with the ball directly in front of him no doubt creates a sense of importance and urgency. He has no choice but to try to stop him, and this season he’s certainly been more effective.

Strong individual defense, however, involves an understanding of opponent strengths and weaknesses, and a predictive element that enables defenders to beat their opponents to particular spots on the floor. Athleticism aids in those efforts and helps to erase some of Rose’s mistakes, but it’s his more complete understanding of proper defensive technique that has enabled Rose to blanket his counterparts this season. Watch as he defends Indiana’s T.J. Ford:

ZOaYeLAEPvI

Rose is clearly playing off of Ford and encouraging him to shoot a jumper, yet he’s quick to shut off Ford’s driving lanes and also to recover when Ford opts for the step-back. Just as importantly, Rose plays with awareness of both Ford’s movements and the ticking shot clock. Even when the 24-second clock nears zero, Rose doesn’t fall for Ford’s pump fakes. He waits, he challenges, and then he smothers Ford’s desperate shot attempt when he has no other choice but to shoot.

He’s effective in defending the pick-and-roll as well, mostly due to his persistence around screens. Rose gets picked off just like every other perimeter player in the N.B.A., but he’s quick to scurry and maneuver back to his man. Rose may be screened, but he’s never deterred. It’s a credit to the Bulls’ bigs that Chicago is so effective in defending the pick-and-roll, but all they can really offer is a window. It’s up to Rose to fight through the screen and recover quickly, to prevent weak-side exploitation of the Bulls’ rotations.

Rose has become relentless. Not perfectly so, mind you, but to an admirable degree. He doesn’t take as many defensive possessions off, even as he carries an absurd amount of offensive responsibility. He doesn’t seem to give up mid-play as often as he did in years past, and instead works diligently to get himself back into defensive position. He doesn’t jump before he should, or take a breather when he shouldn’t. For the first time in his career, Rose looks like he wants to play defense, and it shows.



God Bless Thibs for the impact he's made on this team in just one season :toast