2011 Draft Prospect: Jeremy Tyler

[Bruno]

http://www.sportsagentblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/jeremy-tyler.jpg
Height: 6-11
Weight: 240 lbs
Birthday: 06/12/1991
Team: Tokyo Apache
Country: USA

DraftExpress (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Jeremy-Tyler-1327/)
nbadraft (http://www.nbadraft.net/players/jeremy-tyler)

[TheProfessor]

Tyler's season in Japan came to a premature end after the basketball season was canceled - http://www.asiabasketballupdate.com/1/post/2011/03/natural-disasters-end-basketball-season-early-for-some.html

Of course, everyone's familiar with his struggles in Israel. But he apparently was making some strides in Japan and, depending on workouts, he's the kind of talent I would like to see the Spurs take a gamble on in the second round. You would hope by now he'd have a bit of perspective after all he's gone through, and some time in he D-League could work wonders for him.

[ChuckD]

Not as worried about him as the idiots that surround him. You have to cut a kid like this out of the herd, break him down, and build him back up. That may be more trouble than the Spurs want to take on for a kid that is rated #84 in this draft class.

[TheProfessor]

Not as worried about him as the idiots that surround him. You have to cut a kid like this out of the herd, break him down, and build him back up. That may be more trouble than the Spurs want to take on for a kid that is rated #84 in this draft class.
I believe you're actually referring to DraftExpress's top 100 prospects list; they've got him going late second round right now. Of course, all that is speculative at this point (nbadraft.net has him going first round, incredibly). I see exactly what you mean about cutting him off from the herd, and I have no idea how he would respond to spending a couple of years in the D-League. But particularly in a weak draft class, he's someone I would look at with a second-round pick if he showed some maturation.

[spursballer21]

What do all think about him? How's his game,athleticism, and etc?

[ChuckD]

What do all think about him? How's his game,athleticism, and etc?

Athleticism? Off the charts?
Game? HS Junior. That's the last serious playing time he had, two years ago.
Posse? Surrounded by poor decision making vultures.

This guy is going to be a cautionary tale for a decade.

[Ditty]

I don't know if this kid will be around when the spurs pick in the 2nd round.but could b e there in the 1st. Would anyone know the similarties and driffernces between him and ryan richards, and who will probably be the better prospect down the stretch...having richards and tyler on our roster in 2 years or so would give the spurs a lot of size and athletcism in the frontline

[ChuckD]

The Spurs (and precious few other teams) would never give this kid a guaranteed contract, which is what you get as a first round pick.

Again, he's rated #84 in this draft, which is a weak one. There are only 60 picks in an NBA draft. Some team will likely take a flyer on him in the 2nd round, but he really isn't all that. He has name recognition for doing something incredibly stupid: dropping out of HS to go play overseas. That's it.

[Uriel]

Initially, I thought there was no way the Spurs, given the premium they put on character, would even consider drafting Tyler given his historical troubles. However, given the way the season ended, it's becoming more palpable that ever that the frontcourt is in need of some serious help. No one likely to be available at 29 has quite the upside Jeremy Tyler has, and if the Spurs can develop him, provided a very big if indeed, he could be the centerpiece of the youth movement in the post-Duncan era. At the very least, he has more upside than Hill, Blair, Splitter, and Anderson.

[ChuckD]

Initially, I thought there was no way the Spurs, given the premium they put on character, would even consider drafting Tyler given his historical troubles. However, given the way the season ended, it's becoming more palpable that ever that the frontcourt is in need of some serious help. No one likely to be available at 29 has quite the upside Jeremy Tyler has, and if the Spurs can develop him, provided a very big if indeed, he could be the centerpiece of the youth movement in the post-Duncan era. At the very least, he has more upside than Hill, Blair, Splitter, and Anderson.

I don't know where you're seeing this "upside". He was only ranked #10 in his HS junior class, and by all accounts has not progressed.

The right of way of the NBA highway is littered with terrifically athletic young men who hadn't a clue how to play basketball.

[Spurtacus]

No. Just no.

[Spurtacus]

No. Just no.

I'm going the other direction now. I was impressed by his combine workout and interview. I think this kid is far more mature now then when he left HS his junior year. First round is still a reach but if he fell to the Spurs in the second round he's worth picking (assuming the Spurs didn't go big in the 1st round). I think his stock is rising to early second though.

[yavozerb]

Quietly raising in stock with me. I personally think he'll compliment Ryan Richards and be a big part of the Spurs future front court.

Whatever big the spurs take need to be an inside player 1st and foremost..Not sure if Tyler is the answer, but the skillset of playing inside is there, just needs some polishing..

[ChuckD]

As for some maturity issues, I'll put my two cents in: If an immature person is thrown into a mature environment, such as the Spurs organization, he will be forced to mature. I don't think it will be a problem.


Not as worried about him as the idiots that surround him. You have to cut a kid like this out of the herd, break him down, and build him back up. That may be more trouble than the Spurs want to take on for a kid that is rated #84 in this draft class.

He's up to #51 on DX's top 100, but you still have to wonder about his family and "advisors" who thought quitting HS was a good idea. Sometimes those ticks never drop off.

[ChuckD]

Those people know him best. If he didn't have good grades he wouldnt like college at all. While Japan isn't where I personally would have gone, school just isn't for some people.

That's not why he did it. Sonny Vaccarro convinced him that if he quit and played ball for one year overseas, he could be drafted. That was wrong. The age limit still applies. From what I understand, he was doing fine in HS. This was all a power play by Vaccarro who hates the NCAA.

[SenorSpur]

Listened to a brief interview with Tyler during the NBA PreDraft Combine. He appeared poised as he spoke of his decision to leave high school. His went on to say that his time spent playing abroad helped him not only develop his game, but also mature as an individual.

Apparently, he spent some time in Japan and was trying to get out right before the recent Tsunami. He spoke briefly of how surreal that experience was. He also went on to say that how, growing up in California, he'd had some experience with Earthquakes, but nothing along the line of what he experienced while in Japan. He then sent condolences and well-wishes to the families and friends of the affected victims.

He said all the right things and talked about how he was committed he was toward improving his game and proving to scouts that he was a true professional. He was nothing like I expected I expected a cocky, immature big kid and he really demonstrated none of that. All in all, he was well-spoken, articulate and calm.

[Bruno]

He works out today with Spurs:
http://thehoopsreport.com/workouts.aspx?action=San%20Antonio

[dbestpro]

As for some maturity issues, I'll put my two cents in: If an immature person is thrown into a mature environment, such as the Spurs organization, he will be forced to mature. I don't think it will be a problem.

Then what happened to Blair?

[yavozerb]

He works out today with Spurs:
http://thehoopsreport.com/workouts.aspx?action=San%20Antonio

:toast

[JonNOKC]

I like this kid - thought he might hang around to the 2nd round - but after combine appears he may be moving to late 1st/early 2nd grade for some scouts - I think he is more NBA ready than any of the other 18-20 yo big in this draft.

[JonNOKC]

Then what happened to Blair?

from what I hear Blair issue pretty much comes down to diet - not saying there aren't a few other areas the Spurs would like to see him show more maturity, but the single biggest thing is simply him having enough self discipline to eat this not that

[5in10]

Love this kids interviews. Really seems to "get it" and really matured since he went overseas. I'd take him over most the bigs in this draft. 6'10 with a 7'5 wing span and oozing with potential.

[Ocotillo]

It's official, the Spurs will not be drafting this kid. He is beginning to get a following on SpursTalk and we need bigs so R.C./Pop will go in completely different direction.

[JonNOKC]

It's official, the Spurs will not be drafting this kid. He is beginning to get a following on SpursTalk and we need bigs so R.C./Pop will go in completely different direction.

Lets hope not - right now he would be my top choice at 29 - body reminds me very much of Bynum - at 19 this kid already has a NBA body - that can't be said of most the 4/5 in this draft even those who are seniors

[JonNOKC]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjMSNSlyyBQ&feature=player_embedded

[taps]

^ Tyler "highly doubts" he'll get stuck on the bench all season because he's "physically ready to play here."

Gregg Popovich has a surprise for you.

[TheProfessor]

^ Tyler "highly doubts" he'll get stuck on the bench all season because he's "physically ready to play here."

Gregg Popovich has a surprise for you.
Yeah, that was the one trouble spot in the interview. Considering his reaction to not getting minutes in Israel, it's not exactly what you want to hear. But otherwise, his interviews have apparently been solid. He's done a lot for himself and looks to be moving into that late first round/early second round area.

[taps]

I agree I liked the interview overall. I prefer a player with confidence and he is confident in his abilities, nothing wrong with that. Judging by the interview he has tempered it with experience and a reasonably humble attitude.

I guess my post was an oblique reference to/criticism of the whole Tiago situation - the most polished defensive player we've had in half a decade at a peak of his prime... You know the rest.

[SenorSpur]

Following last weekend's Pre-Draft Combine, Tyler has apparently impressed teams enough to have possibly positioned himself into the first round.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft/results/players/news/_/id/19575/jeremy-tyler

May 23 Update: Jeremy Tyler continued to wow NBA teams on Friday with his athleticism, physical profile and defense. He measured out as the second-biggest player at the combine. He was 6-11, 260 with a huge 7-5 wing and a 9-2 standing reach. Tyler told me he believed he'll have a 40-inch vertical, which is a fantastic number for a player his size. His measurements are on par with Cole Aldrich's and just below DeAndre Jordan's. Tyler also scored very high marks from NBA teams on his interviews. His offensive game is still a work in progress and there are still some skeletons in his closet from his botched season in Israel. But on sheer physical upside, Tyler played himself into a possible first-round pick with his week here. A number of teams, including the Knicks, Nuggets, Rockets and Spurs, are giving him a look in the first.

And in his latest version of his mock draft, guess which team ESPN's Chad Ford has predicted will select Tyler in the first round?

Mock Draft Projection
San Antonio Spurs
(No. 29 Pick)

Analysis: The Spurs have done a good job over the years of finding young international players and stashing them overseas for a few years until they're ready. Tyler doesn't quite fit that model. He stashed himself overseas … but the point is he's got tremendous upside for a team willing to be patient with him. Given the strong reaction to Tyler at the predraft camp, I'm not sure he lasts this long on the draft board.

[pad300]

Tyler told me he believed he'll have a 40-inch vertical, which is a fantastic number for a player his size.


40 Inch vertical my ass, he topped out at 33.5...

http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre-draft-measurements/?page=&year=2011&source=All&sort2=DESC&draft=0&pos=0&sort=

[spursballer21]

It's our fault. It's a known fact NBA GMs lurk this board. Anyone we like is drafted ahead of the spurs pick.

You think?

[ChuckD]

For his size that is very impresive. You dont find to many 260 lb guys jumping 35 in, at at 6-11 with a 9-4 standing reach that is athletic as hell. If he trained to be a jumper he could most likely get to 38-40, he may have been at 40 in HS.....as he was 40lbs lighter.

He's not jumping even 35, he's jumping 33.5. He'll never jump 40. If he trains real hard, he might get to right around 35, maybe 36. You don't ever add 6.5 inches to your vertical, not even if needles are involved.

[yavozerb]

Again, let all these measurement wonders move into the 1st so those who actually have game can fall to the spurs...:toast

[elemento]

I dunno. I do not want to be negative but it looks like the guy is trying to be a fake nice/matured guy in the interviews just to get a contract.

I would never draft this guy with a 1st round pick. Way too many bad thing is his past to believe that he suddenly has changed.

[yavozerb]

I dunno. I do not want to be negative but it looks like the guy is trying to be a fake nice/matured guy in the interviews just to get a contract.

I would never draft this guy with a 1st round pick. Way too many bad thing is his past to believe that he suddenly has changed.

Hell yes, wouldn't you "fake nice/matured guy" in an interview to get a contract in the NBA? I would say 80-90 % of these prospects are coached up prior to these interviews so the y can come across as knowledgable and dedicated..Nothing wrong with that, but the fact is nobody knows anything about Tyler's game since he's been MIA for a couple of years. Yes, he can run, jump, good size, but can the kid actually play a team oriented game of basketball?

[Man In Black]

When he was here in San Diego, he was a Man amongst Boys. But I don't know if he's in it mentally. Physical tools yes, reminds me of 1 Jackie Butler. Now...I root for San Diego but my choice going in would be for Malcolm Thomas. If the Spurs get Tyler, I'm okay with that but let's hope he's mature enough.
I recall Brandon Jennings not dominating in Italy but when he got to Milwaukee, the kid's been solid.

[SenorSpur]

Check out the Scotty Hopson interviews I posted...

Phila,
Do you have a read on Jeremy Tyler versus Nikola Vucevic?

[yavozerb]

Honestly I believe the Spurs find themselves a bigman short. Tyer and Vucevic both have great physical tools. Tyler is obviously more athletic, but I believe the Spurs will probably go for a trade to draw a more developed big man who can make the rotation instantly. Depending on what is left of that trade the Spurs might just draft Tyler who is young and for the future or perhaps fill another need that said trade created. If they even have the 29th pick.

So you believe they will trading up (or at least trying) in an attempt for a more sure fire rookie? Who do you see as that kind of player? I have long wanted trey thompkins from georgia and am hoping he is on the radar..

[SenorSpur]

Honestly I believe the Spurs find themselves a bigman short. Tyer and Vucevic both have great physical tools. Tyler is obviously more athletic, but I believe the Spurs will probably go for a trade to draw a more developed big man who can make the rotation instantly. Depending on what is left of that trade the Spurs might just draft Tyler who is young and for the future or perhaps fill another need that said trade created. If they even have the 29th pick.

If they do go the trade route, I hope it's for a promising young big to replace Dice. One who has more of his career in front of him, rather than behind him. It would just make no sense in investing in a veteran big, with a hefty price tag. And as you stated, they could still take a young big via the draft. After all, they'll be in the market for yet another big to step in once Duncan retires. May as well get someone in the pipeline now.

[yavozerb]

If they do go the trade route, I hope it's for a promising young big to replace Dice. One who has more of his career in front of him, rather than behind him. It would just make no sense in investing in a veteran big, with a hefty price tag. And as you stated, they could still take a young big via the draft. After all, they'll be in the market for yet another big to step in once Duncan retires. May as well get someone in the pipeline now.

How many promising young bigs have you seen salary dumped in the NBA over the years?

[SenorSpur]

How many promising young bigs have you seen salary dumped in the NBA over the years?

I believe you're reading too much into this. A promising, yet under-developed, young big could possible be had via trade. Think Jason Thompson (SAC).

[yavozerb]

I believe you're reading too much into this. A promising, yet under-developed, young big could possible be had via trade. Think Jason Thompson (SAC).

I dont think I am, why would Sac. trade Thompson for Mcdyess when they are already around 20 mil. under the cap? All I am saying is that 90% of players who are traded for expiring contracts are usually older players with multiple years left on there own contract and the team needs to decrease there own salary.

[SenorSpur]

I dont think I am, why would Sac. trade Thompson for Mcdyess when they are already around 20 mil. under the cap? All I am saying is that 90% of players who are traded for expiring contracts are usually older players with multiple years left on there own contract and the team needs to decrease there own salary.

Becaus a team like Sac is flowing red financially, there's no doubt that in order for the Spurs to get such a young player, in this dream scenario, they would likely have to take back a bad contract. Hey, I'm not even saying such a scenario is possible. In fact, I agree with you that the chances are unlikely they'd be able to find such a partner and and such a deal, where they wouldn't have to cripple themselves financially to make it happen.

Frankly, I'd prefer they just take the best big in the draft @ #29, and call it a day.

[yavozerb]

The only way the Spurs get a promising young big is if they trade Parker. According to people I've talked to the Lakers would actually be open to trading Bynum for Parker because they feel that they need a point guard for the next couple seasons who can produce effectively. I have my doubts the Spurs are interested in taking on Bynum though.

From a personal stand point that is. Not a talent stand point.

When you first read about this possible trade you almost think its a no brainer and that the spurs would do this trade , but after thinking about a lakers starting lineup of TP-Kobe-Artest-Odom-Gasol, I would do a double take as well, thats a scary starting 5..

[ChuckD]

clearly you haven't seen josh mcroberts.

31.5

[ChuckD]

It's improved by around 8 inches from last season to this season because he has shed body fat and worked hard. 31.5 was coming out of Duke.

Is that verified/measured, or just your seat of the pants guess? I'll give you MY seat of the pants guess: nobody fucking improves their vertical 8 inches. I can see him maybe jumping 33-34 now, but that figure you quoted is bullshit. If he could do it, everyone would be doing it, and no one would be able to put up a layup in the NBA without getting it swatted into the 30th row.

[yavozerb]

I thought this was Tyler thread?

[ChuckD]

Not everyone is capable of increasing their vertical. There are a lot of factors coming into. Less body fat percentage. Technique. Things like that, working on legs. It is entirely possible to increase jumping ability the same way it is possible to improve a jump shot. Hard work.

I don't see anything in your list that everyone couldn't do. I'm not saying he hasn't increased his vert, I'm just calling bullshit on 8 inches. The 1.5 to 2.5 that I proposed would be a huge vertical increase, like 8% on the top end.

No trained athlete is capable of increasing their vert 25+%, which is what you're saying he did, from 31.5 to 39.5. That would be like Usain Bolt increasing his workout and working on form and running a 7 second 100 Meter dash.

[Man In Black]

I don't see anything in your list that everyone couldn't do. I'm not saying he hasn't increased his vert, I'm just calling bullshit on 8 inches. The 1.5 to 2.5 that I proposed would be a huge vertical increase, like 8% on the top end.

No trained athlete is capable of increasing their vert 25+%, which is what you're saying he did, from 31.5 to 39.5. That would be like Usain Bolt increasing his workout and working on form and running a 7 second 100 Meter dash.

It can be done, but it has to be over time, we mean over a course of a few years, with real hard work.
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/weight-training-weight-lifting/adam-archuleta-workout-routine-403374.html
Adam Archuleta went from 26 inch vert to 39 inches.

[xellos88330]

When you think about it, with over a 9 ft. standing reach, he doesn't really need to jump that high. With his standing reach combined with his max vert of 33.5", he reaches a 12ft apex on his shot block/dunk attempt. 2ft above the rim is pretty solid for a man with his build and weight.

Here is a quick draft comparison with a known superstar at his position. Please note that this is not an analytical comparison of basketball skill, but athletic ability.

According to DraftExpress, Amare Stoudemire had pre-draft measurements with a max verticle of 35.5". He was also 20+lbs lighter than Tyler. When you do the math on it, Stoudemire also had the exact same 12ft apex as Tyler when you combine their standing reach + max vertical measurements.

Everyone views Stoudemire as an athletic freak, well imagine a heavier person able to reach the exact same height as a young Stoudemire. Hopefully this puts some sort of perspective on the subject. If someone wants to avoid getting blocked by Tyler, they need to get that ball 12'9" high, otherwise, it is going to be a solid contest and possible block.

The more I think about this guy, the more I would absolutely LOVE him to be on the Spurs. There are definitely questions of his maturity, but being in the Spurs organization could actually do some good for him. If he is a hard worker and truly desires to improve his game, then this guy could be a diamond in the rough. He has an excellent combination of weight/length/strength/athleticism to battle with an Andrew Bynum, or Dwight Howard on the low block. (Dwight Howard was around 15 lbs lighter than Tyler but using same measuring method, he only had a 12'1" apex. Bynum also had a 12'1" apex.) I believe that if he can at least learn the defensive side of the court, this kid could stick for a long time.

[Spurtacus]

Really shocked to see he's the Spurs pick in Chad Ford's latest mock. This guy went from late second to late first after the combine.

[xellos88330]

So the Spurs should draft a guy that was a third string PF in a small Israeli League club?

I am just saying that the guy has the physical tools necessary to compete against the bigger stronger centers/pf's out there, along with great athleticism to provide help defense. He has what is needed physically, the only question is whether he has what it takes mentally.

If he isn't prideful and just doesn't want to get better, but actually works to get better, he could amount to a useful cog. I am not saying he is going to be a savior of the franchise right out of the box, but in a few years, he could become quite good.

I mean think about it. You wouldn't use saw to hammer in a nail. Pop has been using Bonner or Blair (the saw) to try to get the job done defensively in the paint. Didn't work too well because they don't have all the necesarry physical abilities to do it. This kid has them. He is the hammer that has yet to be picked up and used. It is just up to the kid, should he be drafted, to learn how to be a hammer. That is all.

[dbestpro]

Pop will never, even in 5 years, give this kid any meaningful minutes. Pop plays players based on their mensa score, not on their talent. RJ and Bonner test quite well off the court. If you want a player that actually get the chance to make a difference, find someone who can discuss political international affairs.

[ChuckD]

Who says Pop will be with the Spurs in 5 years? Draft this kid, sign Ryan Richards, once Duncan retires Manu will likely be right behind him and that leaves the Spurs with 4 or 5 players about to reach their prime or in it. Just fast-forward 3 years and the line up will look like:

Hill(26)
Anderson(25)
RJ(49)
Richards(22)
Tyler(22)

That's a lottery team.

[ChuckD]

Yeah, that Archuleta thing is a fitness program for sale. I'd take any claims with a grain of sand the size of a boulder. If you believe it, I have some ocean-front property for sale in the Phoenix suburbs.

Also, WTF does that have to do with that lineup you posted being a lottery team?

You post shit like it's a fact and you have nothing to back it. That video of Josh McRoberts was from an angle higher than the rim, and still showed his head at least 6 inches under the rim, which would put the math for your hypothetical 40 inch vertical at 34. Now, in the realm of the height from the floor to the rim, 6 inches is only 1/20th of that length, but 6 inches off his vert puts him into the more human 34 category, and not your claimed 40. If JM had a 40, he'd be shitting on everyone and an All Pro, and that's no lie. You're a bullshitter, plain and simple.

[objective]

that McRoberts video is not at the rim.

besides

There's plenty of footage of Tyler playing for the Tokyo Apache on youtube, and he plays in the footage available like an earthbound player. Lots of spinning and leaning and traveling but no high flying. During gameplay he often doesn't even look like he's performing better than a 20 inch vertical. He looks closer to Zach Randolph and Jackie Butler than Amare Stoudemire or Blake Griffen.

[objective]

Yeah, that Archuleta thing is a fitness program for sale. I'd take any claims with a grain of sand the size of a boulder. If you believe it, I have some ocean-front property for sale in the Phoenix suburbs.



Archuleta's dvd was quite extreme. And right when it was made the boast was that it's techniques were keeping him injury free; as soon as he got the 2nd contract after it's release his body fell apart.

I don't think I'd want a brutally raw player like Tyler or anyone else working their way to methods like jumping off of boxes 6 feet in the air and landing on their toes in a knees flexed position or some of the other extremes just to get his vertical up a couple of inches. That example may not be exactly what was done but I haven't watched the dvd for a couple of years, but it was uncommon stuff.

Better to spend all those hours working on his actual game.

[yavozerb]

Holy crap, you guys are still talking about vertical jumps..:deadhorse

[JonNOKC]

Holy crap, you guys are still talking about vertical jumps..:deadhorse

No kidding - at the end of the day there is no doubt Tyler has the physical/athletic tools necessary to play in the NBA - if he never succeeds in the NBA it will be due to lack of Basketball IQ, developing skill set, and overall mental toughness/maturity.

[Uriel]

Pop will never, even in 5 years, give this kid any meaningful minutes. Pop plays players based on their mensa score, not on their talent. RJ and Bonner test quite well off the court. If you want a player that actually get the chance to make a difference, find someone who can discuss political international affairs.

That's honestly a big part of the reason why I'm so proud to be a Spurs fan. Anyone can put together a team of talented knuckleheads to fill the roster, but the fact that the Spurs can create a culture that breeds grounded, professional people with positive off-the-court attributes and still be among the winningest franchises in professional sports speaks volumes about the laudability of the Spurs' model.

Speaking of Mensa scores, Matt Bonner has an SAT score of 1350 (http://aol.sportingnews.com/mlb/feed/2010-09/smart-athletes/story/sporting-news-names-the-20-smartest-athletes-in-sports) which when converted to IQ measures out at 139 at a standard deviation of 15 (http://www.iqcomparisonsite.com/GREIQ.aspx). The minimum for admission into Mensa given that standard deviation is 130. That means he's more than smart enough to join a high IQ society that mandates one's IQ be higher than 98% of the world population. 98%.

[Tyrone Jenkins]

Tyler is SEVERELY immature. You can't teach maturity - you can coax it out of guys but ultimately idiots will show their true colors sooner or later.

Unless this kid is projected to be the next Wilt Chamberlain, I wouldn't draft him. If he goes undrafted, I'd take a look at him then.

[JonNOKC]

Tyler is SEVERELY immature. You can't teach maturity - you can coax it out of guys but ultimately idiots will show their true colors sooner or later.

Unless this kid is projected to be the next Wilt Chamberlain, I wouldn't draft him. If he goes undrafted, I'd take a look at him then.

The list of guys who were immature or knuckleheads and later went on to have strong careers is long - if he was 25 or older with a track record I would be worried but he is 19 - you may not be able to teach someone maturity but most people learn to grow up due to the consequences of our actions - the one thing I know you can not teach is size and he is one of the few in this draft that have legitimate size both height and girth

It appears he has matured a a lot from his experience of having to go overseas - maybe it is just an act for the draft - but you have to take a look at this guy because at 19 he already has an NBA body and has shown some ability to be able to learn and mature- if he develops his skillset and BB IQ his potential/upside is much greater vs. most the other bigs that would be available

I have said many times if the Spurs want to get better now the best option is a trade - I like Benson just think there is a chance you could grab him at 58 or with a small trade that moves you into middle of 2nd round

[dbestpro]

I don't think Pop would give him a chance, but what do you expect for the last pick of the first round?

[SenorSpur]

That's honestly a big part of the reason why I'm so proud to be a Spurs fan. Anyone can put together a team of talented knuckleheads to fill the roster, but the fact that the Spurs can create a culture that breeds grounded, professional people with positive off-the-court attributes and still be among the winningest franchises in professional sports speaks volumes about the laudability of the Spurs' model.

Speaking of Mensa scores, Matt Bonner has an SAT score of 1350 (http://aol.sportingnews.com/mlb/feed/2010-09/smart-athletes/story/sporting-news-names-the-20-smartest-athletes-in-sports) which when converted to IQ measures out at 139 at a standard deviation of 15 (http://www.iqcomparisonsite.com/GREIQ.aspx). The minimum for admission into Mensa given that standard deviation is 130. That means he's more than smart enough to join a high IQ society that mandates one's IQ be higher than 98% of the world population. 98%.

That's all well and good regarding Bonner, but none of that statistical IQ jargon means anything when he's getting abused on the low-block by opposing frontcourt players. Nor does it help him get over his well-earned reputation as a perennial playoff choker.

I digress. Let's get back to Tyler.

The way I see it, the kid made a questionable decision by forging his final year of school to play professionally. However, he says himself how that experience helped him to mature. After all, what young player hasn't made some mistakes? The kid may have had some immature moments, but he's certainly not stupid. I've heard his extensive interviews and he comes across quite intelligent. He certainly sounded as though he's learned some lessons. He certainly has something to prove, which is a quality the Spurs cherish.

Another positive for him is that, despite spending time abroad alone, he's got both his parents as major influences in his life. I just think that dual parental influence gives him a much better support system than most.

Furthermore, I totally believe that any reasonably intelligent young kid, that is placed into the protective cocoon of the Spurs organization, cannot help but to conform to the Spurs way. He simply has no other choice.

All that said, if this kid is available @ #29, and assuming he's the best option on the board, and if he truly has "gotten over himself", I'm sure the Spurs would strongly consider him. After all, they've been scouting him and working him out for a reason.

[jjktkk]

That's all well and good regarding Bonner, but none of that statistical IQ jargon means anything when he's getting abused on the low-block by opposing frontcourt players. Nor does it help him get over his well-earned reputation as a perennial playoff choker.

I digress. Let's get back to Tyler.

The way I see it, the kid made a questionable decision by forging his final year of school to play professionally. However, he says himself how that experience helped him to mature. After all, what young player hasn't made some mistakes? The kid may have had some immature moments, but he's certainly not stupid. I've heard his extensive interviews and he comes across quite intelligent. He certainly sounded as though he's learned some lessons. He certainly has something to prove, which is a quality the Spurs cherish.

Another positive for him is that, despite spending time abroad alone, he's got both his parents as major influences in his life. I just think that dual parental influence gives him a much better support system than most.

Furthermore, I totally believe that any reasonably intelligent young kid, that is placed into the protective cocoon of the Spurs organization, cannot help but to conform to the Spurs way. He simply has no other choice.

All that said, if this kid is available @ #29, and assuming he's the best option on the board, and if he truly has "gotten over himself", I'm sure the Spurs would strongly consider him. After all, they've been scouting him and working him out for a reason.

This.

[Bruno]

What has done Tyler for being picked in the first round pick?

[pad300]

What has done Tyler for being picked in the first round pick?

6'11" tall, 260 lbs, 7'5" wingspan, notable athleticism for his size...Nothing more.

At the bottom end of this draft, I suspect that's enough...

[Bruno]

6'11" tall, 260 lbs, 7'5" wingspan, notable athleticism for his size...Nothing more.


Wow, that's thin.

[elemento]

This guy is this year's Hassan Whiteside

He does not deserve a guaranteed contract at all !

[Man In Black]

I've seen him play in his Junior year. San Diego High School is 24 minutes away and he went for like 30 & 20 rebounds or some crazy shit like that. The team he was playing though, their tallest post player was 6'4" and on the thin side.

Tyler looks more like... say, former HS Legend and Boston Celtic, Thomas Hamilton. In High School, he was 7'2 and 310 lbs. He was awesome as a Chicago prep playing alongside Rashard Griffith. Then he just balloneed up to 360 and that was that.

That sounds eerily like Jackie Butler, who...despite being the in the professional ranks with the Spurs, could never quite get himself to a level where he could contribute. Despite the fact that Larry Brown himself, called Jackie the best post player he had when he was coaching the Knicks.

I would like to see Tyler surprise, but this is the NBA and while guys like Brandon Jennings sucked elsewhere, like Roma, here in the NBA, he's done pretty well. I hope Tyler can follow that track but the allure of the lifestyle is what could set him back.

[yavozerb]

Hopeully the spurs are not desperate enough to gamble on this guy..Does not at all have the mental strength to become a legit professional basketball player.

[JonNOKC]

Hopeully the spurs are not desperate enough to gamble on this guy..Does not at all have the mental strength to become a legit professional basketball player.

again I think it is a reach to say he is immature or lacks mental toughness at 19 - he is a young kid that made one bonehead decision (which at 17 I can hardly think this was his decision), and other than that there is little to go on as a reflection of his maturity/mental toughness - It is safe to say that decision was not a good one but really his mental toughness/maturity is simply an unknown.

The Spurs need to do their research on his work ethic in Europe/Asia - there is no doubt he worker hard at least the weeks before combine as he came in great shape and was well prepared for his interviews.

There is no way of knowing what may happen once he gets paid - but every player available at 29th will have question marks whether it be physical tools or maturity or lack of basketball resume

[Uriel]

If history is any indication, the Spurs will not draft Tyler, simply by virtue of the fact that he's already the most discussed draft prospect on SpursTalk by far.

Kidding aside, given the premium the Spurs put on character, I think it's safe to say that if Tyler had any crippling immaturity issues left in him, the Spurs will not hesitate to pass on drafting him. That said, if they do end up drafting him, I think that will say a lot about how far he has come and how convinced the Spurs are that he has grown up since the bad decisions he made a couple of years back. At the very least, he will, as a point many of you have made, be forced to conform to the Spurs' culture, or he won't last very long (see: Jackie Butler).

[Uriel]

That's all well and good regarding Bonner, but none of that statistical IQ jargon means anything when he's getting abused on the low-block by opposing frontcourt players. Nor does it help him get over his well-earned reputation as a perennial playoff choker.

Maybe so, but I'm partial to intrinsically intelligent people. I wouldn't exactly refer to myself as a Matt Bonner apologist, but I don't think he's being judged as fairly as he could.

His so-called "well-earned reputation as a playoff choker" should be looked at in the proper context, because the reality is, the stagnation that has occurred in 3-point shooting during the playoffs has mostly been team-wide. If I recall correctly, Manu Ginobili in a blog post even went so far as to say one of the primary reasons for their loss to the Grizzlies was the inability of everyone in the team, save for RJ (RJ!), to consistently rely on the weapon that had made them so deadly all regular season long.

As for getting abused by post players, I think perception is key, and I think Matt Bonner is getting victimized somewhat by subtle forms of discrimination as a result of his physical appearance. I'm not saying Bonner is a great or even good post defender, but I think given the physical tools available to him, he's made the most of what he's had to at least be passable on that front. But the fact is, it's fairly easy to think otherwise because he doesn't fit the profile of a conventional big man; that is, he's white and has red hair. I mean, let's be honest here: if Matt Bonner looked like Shaq, he wouldn't be accused of getting "abused" on the post nearly to the same extent. But because he looks soft and unintimidating in every conceivable way, then he becomes an easier target for criticism in that area.

As an aside, if you don't buy the notion that first impressions or physical appearance plays that big of a role in life, then may I recommend Blink by Malcolm Gladwell?

[SenorSpur]

Maybe so, but I'm partial to intrinsically intelligent people. I wouldn't exactly refer to myself as a Matt Bonner apologist, but I don't think he's being judged as fairly as he could.

His so-called "well-earned reputation as a playoff choker" should be looked at in the proper context, because the reality is, the stagnation that has occurred in 3-point shooting during the playoffs has mostly been team-wide. If I recall correctly, Manu Ginobili in a blog post even went so far as to say one of the primary reasons for their loss to the Grizzlies was the inability of everyone in the team, save for RJ (RJ!), to consistently rely on the weapon that had made them so deadly all regular season long.

As for getting abused by post players, I think perception is key, and I think Matt Bonner is getting victimized somewhat by subtle forms of discrimination as a result of his physical appearance. I'm not saying Bonner is a great or even good post defender, but I think given the physical tools available to him, he's made the most of what he's had to at least be passable on that front. But the fact is, it's fairly easy to think otherwise because he doesn't fit the profile of a conventional big man; that is, he's white and has red hair. I mean, let's be honest here: if Matt Bonner looked like Shaq, he wouldn't be accused of getting "abused" on the post nearly to the same extent. But because he looks soft and unintimidating in every conceivable way, then he becomes an easier target for criticism in that area.

As an aside, if you don't buy the notion that first impressions or physical appearance plays that big of a role in life, then may I recommend Blink by Malcolm Gladwell?

I will admit that Bonner's dufus running style and clumsy appearance doesn't do himself any justice. It certainly doesn't help his cause with most. However most reasonable people focus on production - or his case, the lack thereof.

Of course, you are correct on one point. The decline in 3-pt shooting was team wide, but it affect Bonner more because 3-pt shooting is his ONLY skill - which makes him a severe on-court liability, when he's not hitting shots.

As far as Bonner getting abused in the paint, that's not perception - that is cold-hearted reality. All anyone need to do is watch the playoff series versus the Grizzlies. At times, it was very easy to predict where the source of the Grizzlies low-post offense would originate - it was whoever Bonner was guarding, when he was in the game. When you're a one-dimensional, single-skilled player, who is also a defensive liability, in opposing players and coaches will zero in on that weakness.

It's obvious to anyone watching that his playoff contributions have been left wanting. He's a decent role player, but he should not be a major rotation player on any team with championship aspirations. He's just not good enough. Meanwhile, Pop is wasting time and compromising his team's success by constantly rolling Bonner out there in clutch situation and expecting different results. All of which makes Pop an idiot. For such a smart man, Pop is giving in to the definition of idiocracy.

Say whatever you want. It doesn't matter what happens during the regular season. All I know is what I see. It occurs every year about this time. It's an annual event just like the changing of the four seasons or the Swallows invading Capistrano. That is, when playoff time rolls around, when the lights get bright and the playoff pressure turns up, Matt Bonner is nowhere to be found. That, my friend, cannot be disputed.

[ivanfromwestwood]

Bonner thread?

[SenorSpur]

Bonner thread?

I know. I got sucked in to this.

Let's get back to Tyler.

[pad300]

His so-called "well-earned reputation as a playoff choker" should be looked at in the proper context, because the reality is, the stagnation that has occurred in 3-point shooting during the playoffs has mostly been team-wide. If I recall correctly, Manu Ginobili in a blog post even went so far as to say one of the primary reasons for their loss to the Grizzlies was the inability of everyone in the team, save for RJ (RJ!), to consistently rely on the weapon that had made them so deadly all regular season long.




Of course, you are correct on one point. The decline in 3-pt shooting was team wide, but it affect Bonner more because 3-pt shooting is his ONLY skill - which makes him a severe on-court liability, when he's not hitting shots.

...

Say whatever you want. It doesn't matter what happens during the regular season. All I know is what I see. It occurs every year about this time. It's an annual event just like the changing of the four seasons or the Swallows invading Capistrano. That is, when playoff time rolls around, when the lights get bright and the playoff pressure turns up, Matt Bonner is nowhere to be found. That, my friend, cannot be disputed.

Yep, Mentally weak players.
Consider
Bruce Bowen Career regular season 3P% .393 Career Playoff 3P% .422
Robert Horry RS 3P% .341 Playoffs 3P% .359
Brent Barry RS 3P% .405 Playoffs 3P% .416

Guys who had the stones for playoff ball
We go away from guys like that, and up with guys like this:

Matt Bonner Career regular season 3P% .414 Career Playoff 3P% .323
Richard Jefferson RS 3P% .365 Playoffs 3P% .309

Any questions as to why we get beaten by lower seeded teams. If RJ and Bonner had made one more 3 per game between them the two of them, I think we beat the Griz. Games 1 and 3 are at least tied at the buzzer, and I suspect we take them, having bigger leads/less of a hill to climb late...

[pad300]

6'11" tall, 260 lbs, 7'5" wingspan, notable athleticism for his size...Nothing more.

At the bottom end of this draft, I suspect that's enough...


Wow, that's thin.

Don't know about that. Those kind of measurements been enough for a lot of first rounders over the years... For example, one Ian Mahinmi had less going for him physically.

[Bruno]

Don't know about that. Those kind of measurements been enough for a lot of first rounders over the years... For example, one Ian Mahinmi had less going for him physically.

Mahinmi wasn't draft only on his physical skills, he was also playing well in French league.

Has Tyler at least one good game at a significant level?

[ducks]

I haven't read the past dozen or so posts, so I just want to know, why is Jeremy Tyler getting so much conversation? I'll sum up what this thread should be:

NBA body-positive
Questions on being NBA ready-negative.
Interview-positive
Combine-tested and played well enough to maybe warrant a late first round pick
Vertical-he, like many others, probably jumps higher in a game
Age-19-positive/negative

it is called offseason for spurs

[pad300]

Mahinmi wasn't draft only on his physical skills, he was also playing well in French league.

Has Tyler at least one good game at a significant level?

I seem to recall something about a 24 and 11 game with Tokyo Apache.

[Bruno]

I seem to recall something about a 24 and 11 game with Tokyo Apache.

I wouldn't call Japanese second league a "significant" level.

I'm not bashing Tyler or saying Spurs shouldn't draft him. I'm just really surprised to see him getting consideration for a first round pick only because of physical tools.

I don't remember a player being drafted recently in the first round with no BB production at a significant level. Even a physical beast like Saer Sene had a game (the Nike hoops summit) to show he was able to play some competitive BB.

[ducks]

Tyler is SEVERELY immature. You can't teach maturity - you can coax it out of guys but ultimately idiots will show their true colors sooner or later.

Unless this kid is projected to be the next Wilt Chamberlain, I wouldn't draft him. If he goes undrafted, I'd take a look at him then.

sj acted fine as a spur

[k_nguyen93]

Will the Spurs pick another under the radar prospect and stash him away for a few years or try to get someone who can play now to add to their bench depth? They need some young talent.

Chad Ford (1:51 PM)
They like USC's Nikola Vucevic a lot ... and he's a NOW player. But I don't think he'll be there at 29. Vucevic is really rising on draft boards. I have them taking Jeremy Tyler right now in my mock. Great value and the Spurs know how to develop talent.

[Uriel]

I know. I got sucked in to this.

Let's get back to Tyler.
Since we're getting out of topic, I posted my response to your post in the Think Tank thread for Matt Bonner (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=124822&page=3).

Now, getting back to Tyler.

So the Spurs should draft a guy that was a third string PF in a small Israeli League club?


Keep in mind that he was playing in Japan's version of the D-League. He was not actually playing in the first level league of Japan.


I wouldn't call Japanese second league a "significant" level.

I'm not bashing Tyler or saying Spurs shouldn't draft him. I'm just really surprised to see him getting consideration for a first round pick only because of physical tools.

Unfortunately for Tyler, I think KBP and Bruno are right. Jeremy Tyler has tremendous upside and all the physical tools to play in the NBA, but the reality is, he's just not good enough to play at the NBA level at the moment. If the Spurs do end up drafting him, I'd be hard pressed to see him suddenly make the transformation from a backup center in obscure leagues in Israel and Japan to productive role player in the NBA, especially given the fact that this team still intends to compete for a championship, and Tyler is, at present, nowhere near good enough to be a significant contributor toward that end. With that said, I wouldn't be surprised if the Spurs follow the same path they did with Ian Mahinmi with Tyler; that is, send him down to the Toros and let him develop there. As impressed as many of us were with his interview, we did note one problem area, and that was his unwillingness to remain a bench warmer when he makes the leap to the NBA. Yet, given his current level of basketball skill, that seems all but inevitable, at least to me.

Besides, we've already got a project big man with tremendous upside in Ryan Richards. At least he's willing to play in the D-League. And if we're really insistent on getting another player with Tyler's niche, why not Lucas Nogueira? He's even younger, will likely remain overseas for a couple more years which gives him time to develop, and is likely to be available by the time the Spurs pick, at least from the mock drafts I've seen as of late (DraftExpress, ESPN).
(http://www.nbadraft.net/players/lucas-nogueira)

[elemento]

I would rather Lucas Nogueira as well

[Tyrone Jenkins]

Not sure if this has been posted on earlier pages but here's Tyler...

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/08/sports/basketball/08tyler.html

[pad300]

So according to this forum, Euroleague games "don't count", but Japan's version of the D-League do?

Hey, it's a random Fake Greek...

I didn't say Euro league games don't count. Bruno asked if Tyler had ever had a good game somewhere...But what do you care about context. You're a delusional fake greek who thinks that Spanoulis is the best in the world.

[pad300]

I haven't seen this posted yet

http://www.ridiculousupside.com/2011/5/31/2198189/jeremy-tyler-nba-draft-2011-highlights-japan#storyjump

[Bruno]

Tyler will have his second workout with Spurs tomorrow:
http://thehoopsreport.com/workouts.aspx?action=San%20Antonio

:stirpot:

[JonNOKC]

The NY TImes article could describe any number of 18 year olds who got "big head syndrome" and some bad advice - maturity levels vary greatly among people at that age and the average person grows up when they see the results of their immaturity

Their is no doubt risk in taking Tyler but obviously a lot of scouts see upside there. If the Spurs are looking at 3 guys that may be there at 29 (Tyler, Johnson, & Nogueira) then the one thing that you have to also take into consideration is Ryan Richards and just how confident they are in his future - out of those 3 players only Tyler could play extended minutes next to RR, Johnson is a PF and lacks bulk. Richards & Nogueira both seem to have the body types that will always be on the lean side (although both are young so you never know but I would be surprised if either guy made it to 250) so I see Tyler as the only true 5 out of 3 guys you are hearing most about.

[yavozerb]

The NY TImes article could describe any number of 18 year olds who got "big head syndrome" and some bad advice - maturity levels vary greatly among people at that age and the average person grows up when they see the results of their immaturity

Their is no doubt risk in taking Tyler but obviously a lot of scouts see upside there. If the Spurs are looking at 3 guys that may be there at 29 (Tyler, Johnson, & Nogueira) then the one thing that you have to also take into consideration is Ryan Richards and just how confident they are in his future - out of those 3 players only Tyler could play extended minutes next to RR, Johnson is a PF and lacks bulk. Richards & Nogueira both seem to have the body types that will always be on the lean side (although both are young so you never know but I would be surprised if either guy made it to 250) so I see Tyler as the only true 5 out of 3 guys you are hearing most about.

RR should not play into the decesion making for the spurs. For one, he is not even close to an NBA player at this time and two, he is not even signed at this time. As much as I hate say this, Tyler is further along in his deveopment than is RR.

[Tyrone Jenkins]

Splitter is by far more offensively gifted than he is defensive. The Spurs, if they keep Splitter which I figure they will w/ Tim leaving after next season for retirement, need DEFENSIVE help in the front court. That's what McDyess was.

Tyler is anything but defensive and isn't a great back to the basket player. His mid-range game is by far better than his low post play so he's actually a PF in a C body.

Not what the Spurs need. They need a Tyson Chandler type (long, athletic, high jumping and muscular).

[pad300]

Splitter is by far more offensively gifted than he is defensive. The Spurs, if they keep Splitter which I figure they will w/ Tim leaving after next season for retirement, need DEFENSIVE help in the front court. That's what McDyess was.

Tyler is anything but defensive and isn't a great back to the basket player. His mid-range game is by far better than his low post play so he's actually a PF in a C body.

Not what the Spurs need. They need a Tyson Chandler type (long, athletic, high jumping and muscular).

Long, athletic, high jumping, and muscular....
From draft express

Wingspan Standing Reach No Step Vert Max Vert Bench Press Lane Agility 3/4 Court Sprint
7' 3" 9' 2" 31.0 33.5 2 12.13 3.36
7' 4.5" 9' 3.5" 30.5 35.5 7 11.21 3.14
7' 5" 9' 2.5" 28.0 33.5 10 11.26 3.29

The 1st guy is Tyson Chandler when drafted
The 2nd guy is Dwight Howard when drafted
The 3ed guy is Tyler Smith

..Of the players we can in any way expect to be available at #29, the guy who fits that description IS TYLER. Seriously 7'5" wingspan, 33.5" max vertical leap. 10 Bench reps. 11.26 Lane Agility Test, 3.29 3/4 court sprint.

Yep, he's not a defender now. Neither was Tyson coming into the league. Tyler will have to learn, just like Tyson did. The question is does he have the brains and character to learn. If the answer is yes, you draft him! If you think the answer is no, the run away and draft someone else...

[spurs777]

He hangs out with the wrong crowd, he is like the 16 year old that hasn't grown up yet

[Uriel]

And if we're really insistent on getting another player with Tyler's niche, why not Lucas Nogueira? He's even younger, will likely remain overseas for a couple more years which gives him time to develop, and is likely to be available by the time the Spurs pick, at least from the mock drafts I've seen as of late (DraftExpress, ESPN).
(http://www.nbadraft.net/players/lucas-nogueira)

DX's latest mock now has Lucas Nogueira being picked at 26 by the Mavericks, while Jeremy Tyler remains available at 29 as he is predicted to go to early in the 2nd round to the Rockets. On the other hand, NBADraft.net has Tyler being picked ahead of us while Nogueira, who doesn't show up in the mock, is probably presumed to wait out another year. Chad Ford of ESPN has both of them available at 29 with Tyler in particular going to the Spurs.

Granted, mock drafts like this should be taken with a huge grain of salt because of the highly unpredictable nature of the draft, but like I stated earlier, if we're really insistent on getting a project big man late in the 1st round, I do think at least one of these 2 will be available to us, and if they're both available, it will be interesting to see who the Spurs will pick (my money's on Tyler though because the 2nd workout he got definitely indicates interest from the Spurs).

Still, I continue to think trading out of the 1st round is a more plausible scenario than most people give credit for, and it might not be an overstatement given the shallow talent pool in this draft and the immense depth of next year's one by consequence that a late 1st rounder in this draft might be of even lesser value than a mid to late 2nd rounder in the draft next year.

[SenorSpur]

DX's latest mock now has Lucas Nogueira being picked at 26 by the Mavericks, while Jeremy Tyler remains available at 29 as he is predicted to go to early in the 2nd round to the Rockets. On the other hand, NBADraft.net has Tyler being picked ahead of us while Nogueira, who doesn't show up in the mock, is probably presumed to wait out another year. Chad Ford of ESPN has both of them available at 29 with Tyler in particular going to the Spurs.

Granted, mock drafts like this should be taken with a huge grain of salt because of the highly unpredictable nature of the draft, but like I stated earlier, if we're really insistent on getting a project big man late in the 1st round, I do think at least one of these 2 will be available to us, and if they're both available, it will be interesting to see who the Spurs will pick (my money's on Tyler though because the 2nd workout he got definitely indicates interest from the Spurs).

Still, I continue to think trading out of the 1st round is a more plausible scenario than most people give credit for, and it might not be an overstatement given the shallow talent pool in this draft and the immense depth of next year's one by consequence that a late 1st rounder in this draft might be of even lesser value than a mid to late 2nd rounder in the draft next year.

I've NEVER been a fan of trading out of the round -especially if you're taking a risk that the desired player will be around later. Obviously, the Spurs will have several options at their pick, late in the round. If the player you want is there - JUST TAKE HIM.

[ChuckD]

I've NEVER been a fan of trading out of the round -especially if you're taking a risk that the desired player will be around later. Obviously, the Spurs will have several options at their pick, late in the round. If the player you want is there - JUST TAKE HIM.

First round, guaranteed contract
second round, NO guaranteed contract.

That is why you trade out, especially in a shit draft like this where every player between 20 and 60 is interchangeable. If it were me, I'd trade this year's first rounder for cash, and pick(s) in next year's draft. There are a lot of dumb GMs who want to get a pick or an additional pick in this first round.

[Uriel]

I've NEVER been a fan of trading out of the round -especially if you're taking a risk that the desired player will be around later. Obviously, the Spurs will have several options at their pick, late in the round. If the player you want is there - JUST TAKE HIM.
I'm sorry, I wasn't being very clear. I meant to say I thought it was plausible to trade out the first round for draft picks in NEXT YEAR's draft because of the sheer depth of it, at least, comparatively speaking, with this year's. Incidentally, I would really appreciate it if you took the time to respond to my rebutall of your post regarding Matt Bonner, which I posted earlier in this thread, and in the Think Tank thread dedicated for him. Since you are one of the foremost Bonner critics on the forum, I spent a considerable deal of effort trying to defend the man, and I'd really appreciate it if you could justify the time I spent doing so by gracing it with a proper response. Thanks.

[SenorSpur]

Why are we still talking about this guy? The Spurs decided not to draft this guy 5 pages ago.

Is that why they worked him out twice?

[mariners]

http://lockerz.com/s/109801090

[yavozerb]

http://lockerz.com/s/109801090

:lol, couldn't wait a couple more days until the draft before being himself...

[Tyrone Jenkins]

http://lockerz.com/s/109801090

Wow - tremendous...

[SenorSpur]

These guys should save their anger and aggression for the hardwood.

[JonNOKC]

although his choice of words points to him fitting right in with the NBA

[SenorSpur]

As talented as Tyler is, he's still very much an unknown. Still, I just think that his baggage may present too much of a risk for the Spurs to ever feel comfortable drafting him. Of course, I could very well be wrong, but I just can't see it.

[yavozerb]

As talented as Tyler is, he's still very much an unknown. Still, I just think that his baggage may present too much of a risk for the Spurs to ever feel comfortable drafting him. Of course, I could very well be wrong, but I just can't see it.

This kid does not need a guranteed contract from a 1st rd pick..Early 2nd rd he is no brainer with very little risk, but a player like Tyler with $ in the bank has eddy curry's work ethic written all over him. No thanks

[buttsR4rebounding]

This kid does not need a guranteed contract from a 1st rd pick..Early 2nd rd he is no brainer with very little risk, but a player like Tyler with $ in the bank has eddy curry's work ethic written all over him. No thanks

At 29 his guaranteed contract would be around $880,000 in year 1; $950,000 in year 2; and a team option for year 3 around $1,080,000. You are not exactly talking about Eddie Curry money here. I really like this kid here. If he had gone the traditional route I bet he is a top 10 pick this year. At 29 it is a crapshoot anyway. He has the physical tools to be a very good player in this league. I think it is worth the gamble that the Spurs way could rub off on him and he would end up as the steal of the draft. If not, you cut him loose in 2 years and have less than $2 million invested.

[ChuckD]

At 29 his guaranteed contract would be around $880,000 in year 1; $950,000 in year 2; and a team option for year 3 around $1,080,000. You are not exactly talking about Eddie Curry money here. I really like this kid here. If he had gone the traditional route I bet he is a top 10 pick this year. At 29 it is a crapshoot anyway. He has the physical tools to be a very good player in this league. I think it is worth the gamble that the Spurs way could rub off on him and he would end up as the steal of the draft. If not, you cut him loose in 2 years and have less than $2 million invested.

I think any guaranteed money is probably a bad thing. This is a kid that needs to have his ego checked in a major way and be broken down and then rebuilt. Much easier job if he's on a second round non guaranteed deal with the threat of his next paycheck evaporating.

[buttsR4rebounding]

I think any guaranteed money is probably a bad thing. This is a kid that needs to have his ego checked in a major way and be broken down and then rebuilt. Much easier job if he's on a second round non guaranteed deal with the threat of his next paycheck evaporating.

With his athletism, size and skill set he is the one player at 29 that could be a top 5 center in the league at some point. Believe me playing against the Association will check his ego in a major way. This would be a low risk, high reward pick. Think back to when you were in college and then when you were 25--big difference in attitude. The Spurs culture has a way getting the desired result.

[kobyz]

from all players he is the most safe to say will not going to the Spurs, since when our team draft player who his biggest problem is luck of desire, heart and will?

[Maddog]

All I can think of is Jackie Butler. An ill mannered Jackie Butler, but Jackie Butler 2.0 nonetheless
If taken his contract wouldn't be that onerous...
Still- I say pass

[Mr. Body]

If you want this type of guy just go sign Sean Williams. He's available and just as much a headcase. Then you still have your pick left over.

[Mr. Body]

Sean Williams isn't 6'11" 260 with a 7'6" wingspan at 19 years old. And again, the kid is 19 years old! He's supposed to be immature.

Good Christ. How many 19 year olds do you know who act like children?

[Mr. Body]

And a big difference in giving a non-professional, cancerous personality millions of dollars and the promise of a slot on your team. No thanks.

[jjktkk]

And a big difference in giving a non-professional, cancerous personality millions of dollars and the promise of a slot on your team. No thanks.

What kind of players are you expecting at the bottom of the 1st round? The kid made some boneheaded decisions, and probably got some bad advice from his peers. But he was an 18 year old kid at the time. Kids make mistakes. Tyler didn't kill anybody, did he? He showed some nice potential at the NBA Combine, and from listening to Tyler talking with reporters, hes grown up a bit. If Tyler checks out with the Spur's FO, and scouts, I have no problem with the Spurs drafting Tyler.

[Tyrone Jenkins]

This is around what I have been saying. Tyreeke Evans was the get away driver in a murder and that never became an issue. Then there is the question of what happens if this kid stayed in the United States and played well in the NCAA? Maybe he would go top 10? If DeMarcus Cousins didn't go to college then he might have been a second round pick. Tyler's talent, size, youth and athletic ability are hard to come by at pick 29. Maturity issues come in all ages.

I disagree. If you look at the # of "kids" drafted below the age of 21 (there's at least 5-10 every year), very few have had the past of Tyler. There's a difference between being immature (and doing something stupid) and thinking you're the next Jordan so that you decide to forego your senior HS basketball season to go overseas, get there, get kicked off the team, go to a different overseas team and the entire time you average less than 10 pts and 6 rebs a game. As a AAU basketball coach, I see these types all the time - most of which are gas station attendants or pizza delivery drivers now. Some kids you just can't seem to get through to enough to so that they can position themselves to be able to display their talents. Tyler is one of these kids and his talents, although good, aren't good enough to put up w/ the rest of him. Just imagine how he'll be w/ $1 million (and still underage but wanting to do things as an adult).

[Mr. Body]

What kind of players are you expecting at the bottom of the 1st round?

I'm pretty sure you've read Jimmy Butler's story, so I'll let you reconsider this comment.

[Tyrone Jenkins]

Jimmy Butler would be an excellent pick for the Spurs @ 29 IMO.

[sinok]

The main difference between this (jerk) kid and Jennings is that Jennings learnt to deal with coaches authority and stay somehow humble, whereas Tyler just totally insulted an experimented european coach accusing him of knowing absolutely nothing about basketball. (with Tyler beeing absolutely raw raw raw and knowing next to nothing about bb and tactics...).
Far to huge ego, full of himself and not able to withstand critics...
How do you think he will able to cope with Pop or guys like Duncan, Gino or TP...
He just needs to get sacked out of the draft in order to learn life... (so bad that it won't happen). Moreover, how teams are going to handle his über cancerous entourage?

[Bruno]

So this guy has off the court issues with a crappy attitude and has done nothing significant on the court. I don't get at all why people are interested in drafting him. If you just want to draft a physical specimen, wait until #59 and pick Bangaly Fofana.

[Mr. Body]

So this guy has off the court issues with a crappy attitude and has done nothing significant on the court. I don't get at all why people are interested in drafting him.

It's the same force that gets people every offseason demanding the Spurs trade for JR Smith. They get enamored by dynamic athleticism and flashy plays and forget (or never really understood) the vast intangibles it requires to put a very good team together, from the home, to the locker room, to the court.

[sinok]

http://thatnbalotterypick.blogspot.com/2011/06/jeremy-tyler-doesnt-know-who-nate.html

...
He might barely know that pop one day lead the teams to NBA Title at this rate...




To counter that argument, do you think he would accuse Pop of not knowing anything about basketball?


Well looks like a lot around this do think so...
So could be the same with Tyler...

[buttsR4rebounding]

When you have the size, skills, and athletism this kid has available at the bottom of the draft (assuming he is) I just don't see how you pass on him. Who else in this draft that you can get at pick 29 can you get that has the potential 10 years from now being one of the top 3 players in the draft? He has the potential IMO to be a Bynum type player. Those are the types of chances you take at pick 29.