Excellent column by Bill Simmons regarding the NBA trades

[Cry Havoc]

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/110225/part1&sportCat=nba

Warning: Extremely long, but worth a read, with a fair amount of insight.

[Andrew Cunanan]

simmons doesn't offer insight.

[LnGrrrR]

Said everything there was to be said about the Celtics trade from a fan's perspective.

[lefty]

I can't stand Simmons

[JamStone]

Pretty good read...

Somewhat agree, don't completely agree, but this was the most interesting passage imo:


PEOPLE WHO DON'T REALIZE THAT CARMELO IS A LEGITIMATE SUPERSTAR: F-minus-minus

One of the strangest subplots this week: Everyone rushing to pick Carmelo's game apart, especially people who rely on advanced metrics and ended up getting caught up in small-picture stuff. Carmelo has one elite skill (he rebounds extremely well for a small forward) and one transcendent skill (he's as good as anyone in the league at scoring and/or getting to the line, especially in crunch time). You can absolutely, positively, unquestionably win a championship if Carmelo Anthony is your creator at the end of a basketball game. The Knicks didn't have anyone like that. Few teams do.

Now throw this in: He's only 26.

Now throw this in: Ten guys started the 2011 All-Star Game. In a 30-team league, the Knicks suddenly have two of them.

Now throw this in: The other players know. They know who's good. They know who's worth a damn. They know who they'd go to war with. So you can't discount (A) how well Carmelo played on the 2008 Olympic team; (B) how much the other guys respected him; and (C) how the key guys on that team were Kobe, LeBron, Wade and Carmelo. It can't be forgotten. It just can't. Neither can the fact that he nearly carried a limited Nuggets team to the Finals two years ago.

Now throw this in: If there was ever a player who could be ignited by a great basketball city and a consistently fantastic crowd, it's Carmelo Anthony. He's been stuck in a relatively icy cruise control for two solid years, playing in a city he didn't totally love, being professional about it, trying hard every game ... and yet, there was something detached about him. No longer. I hate how he weaseled his way to the Knicks and pissed on Denver fans, but that's over. Let's look at this thing objectively: He's going to kill it with the Knicks. I'd bet anything. They haven't had someone like this since Bernard King, which is funny because I always thought Melo was Bernard 2.0. Playing in New York isn't for everyone, but in this case, it will be the best thing that ever happened to Carmelo Anthony.

I keep hearing that you can't win a title with Melo and Amare. Agreed. But you can win the title with Carmelo, Amare and Chris Paul (or Dwight Howard, or Deron Williams). In the short term, you can make some noise, rock the building and make Knicks fans forget about the 10 excruciating years they just endured. And you can scare the living hell out of the fans from the other Eastern contenders. Believe me, as a Celtics fan, I want no part of the Knicks this spring for one reason: You never want to play a playoff series in which the other team has the best guy. There's a decent chance Carmelo could just go off 1984 Bernard-style in Round 1 or Round 2. I'm crapping my pants just thinking about it. Over everything else, THAT is why they had to make this trade. A week ago, the Knicks were a .500 team. Now, they matter. And if you're throwing stats at me, I'll counter with this one: 15 for 15. Thank you and please drive through.


The other interesting passage where Simmons somewhat justifies the Perkins trade, at least partially:


BOSTON CELTICS: C-minus

Strategically, the trade made sense: The Celtics decided that the hole created by Perkins' departure (rebounding and interior defense) wasn't as important as the hole they needed to fill (perimeter scoring, perimeter defense, flexibility). The dirty little secret of the 2010-11 Celtics? They really missed … (wait for it) … Tony Allen.

That's right, Trick-Or-Treat Tony!

They actually missed his defense and athleticism. Marquis Daniels did a decent job filling the void, but once he got hurt, Paul Pierce became Boston's only perimeter player on the entire roster who could defend Carmelo Anthony (Round 1?) and LeBron James (Round 2?). You really want to rely on a 32-year-old with nearly 1,000 games on his odometer for four straight playoff rounds as your only small forward? That left Danny Ainge with two choices: overpay for a rental (Shane Battier, Jamario Moon, Mickael Pietrus, etc.) or fundamentally change his team.

Here's what he saw with Perkins: a 26-year-old with some miles (and multiple surgeries on his shoulders and knees) in line to make $10 million a year (a price the Celtics didn't want to pay), only they couldn't play him at crunch time because, between Rajon Rondo's fear of getting fouled and Perkins' lack of offense, that meant the Celtics were playing three-on-five offensively down the stretch. You can't win that way. That's why Glen Davis grabbed Perkins' crunch-time minutes against good teams.

[Killakobe81]

Read it, it was good. Simmons has his biases and faults ...but articles like these is WHY he has a following. Plus at times he is funny and does a great job of injecting relevant pop culture in toi his prose. Plus I'm glad he doesnt ONLY look at saber metrics. He gets that there is more to the game then just stats.
I also enjoyed the part about how his dad feels. sometimes it is more than about the "laundry". Spur fans are a great example of this ...Im sure most would rather have lost the past 3 seasons in the playoffs than trade duncan for Pau or KG. Duncan and David played their entire careers in SA Parker and Manu will likely do the same. same with Jeter in NY.
Losing homegrown championship players hurts even more than losing free-agent players. Maybe the Celts made a great move for their future and maybe they still win it all ...but they lost a little of their soul, their umbuntu(?) in the process and that hurts Celts fans ....

[Jt.ONE]

"Neither can the fact that he nearly carried a limited Nuggets team to the Finals two years ago."

???

[Kobe_5_Duncan_4]

Pretty good read...

Somewhat agree, don't completely agree, but this was the most interesting passage imo:




The other interesting passage where Simmons somewhat justifies the Perkins trade, at least partially:


Too bad he was incorrect in saying Perkins wanted $10M/Year as Ainge already reported it was $7.5M

Of course he rationalizes the move because he is and always will be a C's homer. Deep down he knows the truth and I guarantee in the next few years or even months he'll man up and make the admission.

Yes the C's miss Tony Allen (Laker fans predicted this the day Tony signed Memphis' offer sheet) and yes they needed a backup SF but NO that player did not have to be Jeff Green who's a lousy->average defender at best nor did the piece have to be your heart soul tough as nails center.

Dumb move that will haunt each member of this C's team for some time.

[JamStone]

Too bad he was incorrect in saying Perkins wanted $10M/Year as Ainge already reported it was $7.5M


What was "reported" isn't official either. Who knows if the $30 million, 4 year deal is what Perkins really asked for? Neither you nor I know for sure. And Perkins may very well command closer to $10 million this summer. That's yet to be determined.



Of course he rationalizes the move because he is and always will be a C's homer. Deep down he knows the truth and I guarantee in the next few years or even months he'll man up and make the admission.

I only quoted part of the passage that gave Simmons take on why the trade made somewhat sense because it's a point of view that hasn't really been brought up. But if you go on to read the entire piece, Simmons himself hates the deal from an emotional standpoint and for what Perkins brought the Celtics in toughness and other intangibles. He's a C's homer that hated the trade. He only offered the other side of things that could have been factors for the decision to make the deal.

[Kyle Orton]

It seemed like Simmons was saying Perkins would get 10M on the open market which I don't doubt.

[Muser]

"Neither can the fact that he nearly carried a limited Nuggets team to the Finals two years ago."

???

WCF = Nearly to the finals.

[Kyle Orton]

And the C's trade was bad but it wasn't terrible especially if Sheed can come out of retirement. I still think trying to trade Jermaine O'Neal for James Posey woulda been a better solution but if Green can fit into their system defensively he's a more athletic and better backup SF than Posey. Also the small ball lineup of KG - Green - Pierce - Allen - Rondo is much better than one with Big Baby. Them losing Nate Robinson is also addition by subtraction.

[Killakobe81]

I know for me Magic, Kobe, fisher, Cooper, eddie Jones, worthy
All the guys we drafted especially the one sthat stayed their whole careers always meant more than the FA's: Pau, Shaq, Kareem etc.

No we dont sniff 16 titles without FA help ...but the guys you see develop as rookies in to stars mean a bit more to fans. I remember arguing with people after the Kobe airballs that he would be MVP of the NBA someday bet a manager of mine a cool $100 that I finally collected a few years back ... I think you care even more if it's a homegrown talent that resurrects or establishes your franchise which is why Magic David duncan Bird Kobe are loved by their fans (though kobe gets some hate too)

[Ghazi]

Celtics/Mavs will be an epic Finals

[Kyle Orton]

I know for me Magic, Kobe, fisher, Cooper, eddie Jones, worthy
All the guys we drafted especially the one sthat stayed their whole careers always meant more than the FA's: Pau, Shaq, Kareem etc.

No we dont sniff 16 titles without FA help ...but the guys you see develop as rookies in to stars mean a bit more to fans. I remember arguing with people after the Kobe airballs that he would be MVP of the NBA someday bet a manager of mine a cool $100 that I finally collected a few years back ... I think you care even more if it's a homegrown talent that resurrects or establishes your franchise which is why Magic David duncan Bird Kobe are loved by their fans (though kobe gets some hate too)

Kobe didn't resurrect shit.

lol saying eddie jones michael cooper or derek fisher mean more than shaq or kareem

[hitmanyr2k]

"Neither can the fact that he nearly carried a limited Nuggets team to the Finals two years ago."



I have more issue with the limited part. How the fuck were the Nuggets "limited"? :lol They had a legit PG, scorers, a solid big man core and a bench. The only thing limited on that team was b-ball IQ. Simmons acts like Carmelo had scrubs or something.

[Killakobe81]

Kobe didn't resurrect shit.

lol saying eddie jones michael cooper or derek fisher mean more than shaq or kareem

Genius, never said they meant more to the franchise, just saying they mean more to the fans ...because of the connection. Reading comprehension try it sometime ...

and yes Kobe did help ressurrect our title chances twice. Of course without shaq or Pau it doesnt happen ...but Kobe kept the Lakers relevant so you can say what you want no way we win or able to stay relevant without him.

[Kobe_5_Duncan_4]

What was "reported" isn't official either. Who knows if the $30 million, 4 year deal is what Perkins really asked for? Neither you nor I know for sure. And Perkins may very well command closer to $10 million this summer. That's yet to be determined.




I only quoted part of the passage that gave Simmons take on why the trade made somewhat sense because it's a point of view that hasn't really been brought up. But if you go on to read the entire piece, Simmons himself hates the deal from an emotional standpoint and for what Perkins brought the Celtics in toughness and other intangibles. He's a C's homer that hated the trade. He only offered the other side of things that could have been factors for the decision to make the deal.


You're right, there's a lot of numbers being thrown out right now about it. Yesterday the Boston Globe reported 30M/4Y whereas now others are saying 40-50M. Who knows, doesn't matter at this point.

They would have been in the best position to re-sign him in the summer anyway with other teams only allotted the MLE in most cases (if they don't in fact lockout and keep similar CBA rules on FA in tact).

But what's the worst that happens? You compete for a 'ship now and lose Perk in the summer.

That's still much better than no longer the hands on favorite in your conference just to get a marginal contributing backup SF.

[Kyle Orton]

Genius, never said they meant more to the franchise, just saying they mean more to the fans ...because of the connection. Reading comprehension try it sometime ...

and yes Kobe did help ressurrect our title chances twice. Of course without shaq or Pau it doesnt happen ...but Kobe kept the Lakers relevant so you can say what you want no way we win or able to stay relevant without him.

Eddie Jones meant more to you than Shaq? Jesus Christ you're retarded.

[Killakobe81]

LOL KO correcting me after I said "for me" ...now you telling me how I feel? I made a general comment about fans but put said myself specifically ...so not to speak for the other fans ...

[Kyle Orton]

LOL KO correcting me after I said "for me" ...now you telling me how I feel? I made a general comment about fans but put said myself specifically ...so not to speak for the other fans ...

Eddie Jones means more to Lakers fans in general than Shaq? Jesus Christ that fan base is retarded.

[Killakobe81]

Eddie Jones meant more to you than Shaq? Jesus Christ you're retarded.

I liked Eddie jones he was my favorite Laker for a while i bought his jersey never shaq's ...though someone gave me a shaq as a gift. I have always favored one star and one role player on all the Laker teams. Eddie Jones was the one I enjoyed most. doesnt mean he is better doesnt mean he accomplished even 10% of what shaq did but as a younger man he was my favorite laker. But by your sophmoric post i guess your favorute players are always the best ones ...Im a fan that apprecites coop, Rambis, fisher and yes, Eddie jones. shaq was the leader of the 3peat and I am grateful but yes I enjoyed Eddie more ...if that makes me a retard you are closed minded ...not every fan of a team chooses the best player as their favorite.

Darren woodson was my favorite 90's Cowboy and one of my favorites all-time. Is he better than the triplets? No but I liked his demeanor his hardwork and he exemplified what A cowboy is.

Shaq was great but he left, and he never realized his full potential and did not work hard enough for me TBH ...

[Killakobe81]

Eddie Jones means more to Lakers fans in general than Shaq? Jesus Christ that fan base is retarded.

You my friend are a mental midget .. at least on THIS subject. Do you not get what simmons article was about or do you need a cliffs note version?

[Kobe_5_Duncan_4]

Eddie Jones means more to Lakers fans in general than Shaq? Jesus Christ that fan base is retarded.


Kobe/Shaq would be more comparable.

Although not techinically a Laker draft pick, in reality it was since Jerry West hand picked Kobe and arranged for Charlotte to draft him @ 13 for the Lakers.

They both arrive in 1996, one as a rookie, one as a free agent from the Magic. I think there's more appreciation inherently for those who are drafted by the team and stay versus those who are acquired if all things are equal.

[Kyle Orton]

rofl Lakers/Cowboys fan. Who was your favorite Yankee of all time?

[Kyle Orton]

You my friend are a mental midget .. at least on THIS subject. Do you not get what simmons article was about or do you need a cliffs note version?

Don't call me the mental midget when the guy who led your team to 3 championships means less to you than some role player on your team when it sucked.

rofl Lakers fans minimizing Shaq's achievements for the lakers by saying "he didn't try hard enough :cry"

[Killakobe81]

rofl Lakers/Cowboys fan. Who was your favorite Yankee of all time?


hate the Yankees but nice try ...
Cowboys had training camp in Oxnard my dad was a cowboy fan went to see them in training camp there a few times. Raiders and Rams left ..who exactly am I supposed to root for a team in Saint Louis or Oakland? Liked te local teams, my dad was a cowboy fan from the 70's they left ... so I adopted them inthe 80's Danny white era when they won nothing ...anything else?

[Kyle Orton]

Yeah.....you live in Cali, why not root for a team in Cali?

[Killakobe81]

Yeah.....you live in Cali, why not root for a team in Cali?

dont live there anymore ... made no sense to jump teams ...but LA isalways home. If we get a team ...I may have to consider supporting both. i live in Dallas now though so why would i stop rooting for the cowboys?

BTW What have the Cowboys won since 95? We have sucked ass ...if i wanted a bandwagon I'd be a steelers or Pats fan since i have no "home team" in L.A.

[jjktkk]

Killia, I believe means losing a guy your team drafted and played for your team for several years is a sentimental loss like Eddie Jones for example.

[Kyle Orton]

I'm pretty sure the Lakers losing Shaq set them back further than when they lost Eddie Jones

[Killakobe81]

As for laker fans ... we love the hardworking guys. Fans with Rambis glasses, the chants of COOOOP ...fans have always supported those guys more than shaq or Kareem (at the arena) even though shaq was GREAT with fans off the court.
L.A. though built on glitz we appreciate guys that give you 100% and Coop, Rambis Eddie jones and even fisher does that shaq did not always do that.

But his less than 100% = 3 titles so No, I'm not trying to diminish that but facts are facts.

kobe is loved mostly, though an arrogant prick ...he plays hard. and even the Bynum ship his ass out "video" shows he cares about being great and winning.

kobe love by laker fans is far from unanimous or universal some dont forgive him for the Shaq stuff, others prfer Lamar, pau or Fisher. Who is the better player has nothing to do with who someone's favorite player is sometimes ...

[Kyle Orton]

Yeah game 7 of the 2006 series against Phoenix was playing hard at its finest.

[Killakobe81]

I'm pretty sure the Lakers losing Shaq set them back further than when they lost Eddie Jones

no one denies that KO. Did you READ the article? It closes with (paraphrasing Simmon's dad) I dont want to root for just the laundry (jersey) sometimes winning doesnt matter when it's family. I would rather lose with Perk and give this team a chance to go down fighting then win with Green ...that is a fan ...sometimes it's sentiment, not just who is better or more talented.

And TBH (though I liked Glen rice in college) I felt the exact same way when the eddie jones/Rice trade first happened. I knew Kobe would be better than eddie and needed to start. I also knew eddie was too skinny to be a SF but I did not care I wanted to find a way to get Eddie a ring too ...Iwatched him at Temple saw him drafted why would I not root for a quiet borderline all-star? BTW he did not suck.

[Killakobe81]

Yeah game 7 of the 2006 series against Phoenix was playing hard at its finest.

LOL that is true and I cant deny it looked liked he quit ...
But Im talking about the committment to staying in shape and improving ...that to me was ridiculous (kobe in the game 7 vs. Phoenix) and part of why I favor Magic over Kobe ...but even that doesnt mean what I said is not true ...

[Killakobe81]

I'm pretty sure the Lakers losing Shaq set them back further than when they lost Eddie Jones

TBH the trade (jones) actually helped the lakers win ...but at the time we did not know that and many fans did not care ...I know I did not.

[Danny.Zhu]

Good read.

[Capt Bringdown]

Annoying and unreadable. Anytime I see a so-called professional writer employ trite phrases such as "wait for it," and "really? REALLY?" I can't be bothered. "Too clever by half," as the brits say.

[jeebus]

Simmons sounded pretty butthurt over the people who predicted that the Knicks would still suck with Melo. And I think he prematurely blew his load with the A minus he gave the Knicks...