Hill the PG

[Spurs Brazil]

Hill improved his game in a lot of areas in the last 2 years but it seems he's getting worst as a PG. Today he killed the offense in the 3rd quarter.

And with his bad play at PG his confidence went downhill. He couldn't make a shot, couldn't finish at the rim and on D he got killed by Conley.

I hope TP is back soon because when Hill plays PG we lost the very good Hill combo guard

[Mal]

He just couldnt fit in Parker`s role.

[HarlemHeat37]

He hasn't shown any improvement as a playmaker at any point of his career, so far, IMO..I don't expect to see it from him at any point either, it just isn't his game, he doesn't have the ball-handling ability or passing ability to become a legit playmaker at the PG position..

[SpursRulez4eVeR]

or court vision for that matter...

[Brazil]

he has something like 0,7 assist per game. He is a pure SG but he should be good enough to just not fuck everything and limit his playmaking to give the ball to Manu and get out of his way

[Mugen]

hes not a natural passer. IMO the spurs are a perfect team for Hill's game just because both TP/Manu's game can be used to hide most of Hill's shortcomings.

[alchemist]

sadly Neal has surpassed Hill overall in 1 season. Hopefully something triggers Hill to become a better play maker, he's shown flashes of being able to run the team but he hasn't done it for long stretches at a time.

[tdunk21]

hill at PG sucks....

[Reck]

He's soft as hell. He needs to be polished some more.

[Obstructed_View]

Worst part of having Hill at the point is you lose two good players: Him and the guy he's replacing.

[Brazil]

Worst part of having Hill at the point is you lose two good players: Him and the guy he's replacing.

:lol good one so true

[cutewizard]

yap, he is awful as a playmaker

and this is the reason why we cant trade Parker,

we cannot gamble with our lives

[cutewizard]

in other words, moving forward, the Spurs future teams need a resident playmaker

a point guard of the future

and its not Hill

[cutewizard]

its funny,,

Parker is taken out by Lady Chance

and Lady Chance smiles on Manu

but the Mirror of Fate shows our weaknesses today

[cutewizard]

we are weak on the frontline

and at point guard, if Parker goes down

one injury at a critical position, and our title hopes end

its scary

[Obstructed_View]

in other words, moving forward, the Spurs future teams need a resident playmaker

a point guard of the future

and its not Hill

All they need is a legitimate NBA point guard that isn't lazy. Should be able to get one via FA after the lockout.

[ducks]

neal hopefully plays next game

[ducks]

All they need is a legitimate NBA point guard that isn't lazy. Should be able to get one via FA after the lockout.

tj ford if he is bought out

[cutewizard]

is Parker's injury serious?

how many games?

[m33p0]

still the spurs' best perimeter defender.

[Manu-of-steel]

Hill is a good SG, but not a good PG. Hill can guard both PG and SG positions, so his value is not limited on just running the team.

[Obstructed_View]

Hill is a good SG, but not a good PG. Hill can guard both PG and SG positions, so his value is not limited on just running the team.

The problem is that it screws his confidence and he can't do anything.

[ducks]

he needs to be traded for a upgrade in the offseason

[Obstructed_View]

he needs to be traded for a upgrade in the offseason

That's just stupid.

[ducks]

if you can trade him and upgrade at that postion it is a no brainer

[ducks]

he also struggles alot on the road compared to home

he mentally owns dallas and usually plays well against them though

[Obstructed_View]

if you can trade him and upgrade at that postion it is a no brainer

Yeah all you need is a team that wants to downgrade at the same position.

You're a no brainer.

[TD 21]

Hill doesn't need to be traded. He's the perfect compliment to Ginobili and Parker. When one of them (particularly Parker) goes down, his deficiencies become exposed. That's not his problem so much as it is the front offices'. They've made it priority to bring in SG three-point specialists as their fourth guard and with their insistence on avoiding the tax, that's left them with a fringe type manning the fifth guard spot.

What needs to happen is, the front office has to make it a priority to find a useful third point in the off season. It's going to be difficult to acquire someone who's capable of playing rotation minutes if need be, with limited financial resources and playing time available. But they clearly need someone better than Quinn, or some other fringe type.

That being said, it was Neal not playing in conjunction with Parker's injury that put far too much of a burden on Ginobili in the second half. With Neal, they can play stretches without a true point, because Neal handles/creates well enough to where they can get away without playing with a PG and use Anderson as the fifth perimeter player in the rotation.

Even with that, though, if they had to go, say, 10-14 days without Parker, they'd be in trouble. They'd still win more than they lose, but it's how they'd have to do it that would take it's toll. Ginobili would have to play and do way too much, Hill would have to play a ton of minutes, etc.

Basically, they need thirteen legit NBA players next season, not eleven.

[elemento]

as a 3rd string PG i like Pooh Jeter, but i don't think SAC will release him. He is much better than Quinn IMO

[kaji157]

They are going to adress this subject during the draft i guess.
Would love to see the Spurs drafting Ginobili´s fellow argentinean NT member Juan fernandez, currently playing in Temple University.

[NASpurs]

Hill the PG needs to step up with Parker out.

[Budkin]

Everyone trashing hill as PG in this thread... and now we need him to fill the role.

[Obstructed_View]

Everyone trashing hill as PG in this thread... and now we need him to fill the role.

Um, Hill has sucked as a PG so far in his career, and it's impeded his ability to do the other things that the Spurs need him to do. He'll be starting point guard, but Manu will be running point. Insane as it sounds, I think I'd prefer Neal come in as the backup to run the team.

[Obstructed_View]

Everyone trashing hill as PG in this thread... and now we need him to fill the role.

Um, Hill has sucked as a PG so far in his career, and it's impeded his ability to do the other things that the Spurs need him to do. He'll be starting point guard, but He'll actually be a shooting guard while Manu will be running point. Insane as it sounds, I think I'd prefer Neal come in as the backup to run the team.

[Seventyniner]

Trading Hill would be asinine. The Spurs couldn't get anyone with better production for that salary level.

Now if Hill doesn't improve in the next couple of seasons, but starts pushing for a big contract extension, that might have some legs.

[Spurs Brazil]

Hill must step up his game now.

He needs to attack and finish strong. Lately he's avoiding contact when he goes to the basket.

[theExpert]

man, Parker got hurt at the wrong time... we're playin the Heat twice and the Lakers once in the upcoming on March

[Mugen]

Hill doesn't need to fill the playmaking role of TP. He needs to fill the attacking role. I have a lot of confidence he will step his play up in TP's absence. He's done it everytime hes been called upon.

[Ross Parrot]

Not to spite him but even Duncan has better PG skills than Hill :lol

[Obstructed_View]

man, Parker got hurt at the wrong time... we're playin the Heat twice and the Lakers once in the upcoming on March

CIA Pop. Nobody has a psychological advantage on the Spurs going into the postseason now.

[Obstructed_View]

Hill doesn't need to fill the playmaking role of TP. He needs to fill the attacking role. I have a lot of confidence he will step his play up in TP's absence. He's done it everytime hes been called upon.

THIS

Pop should tell him it's okay to lead the team in shot attempts as long as he sort of watches to pass to open teammates.

[kaji157]

Hill doesn't need to fill the playmaking role of TP. He needs to fill the attacking role. I have a lot of confidence he will step his play up in TP's absence. He's done it everytime hes been called upon.

No he doesn´t. But for god´s sake, i would be thrilled if he at least delivers one assist to the roller in a pick n roll.

At least a couple of nights ago he feed Duncan once. But it is still impressive that a PG doesn´t know both ways of a pick n roll offense playing in one for 3 years.

[Obstructed_View]

No he doesn´t. But for god´s sake, i would be thrilled if he at least delivers one assist to the roller in a pick n roll.

At least a couple of nights ago he feed Duncan once. But it is still impressive that a PG doesn´t know both ways of a pick n roll offense playing in one for 3 years.

Yeah, he's not a PG. Welcome to two years ago.

[Spurs Brazil]

:(

[4>0rings]

and there were people wanting to trade TP's contract cause Hill could carry the point fine... gtfo.

[wunderkindepiphany]

Hills inability to run the point is getting exploited right now. I think hes solely responsible for like 3 turnovers right now.

[HarlemHeat37]

This was predictable..

His lack of ball-handling and passing ability has always been evident, it probably won't get significantly better, however, the constant unpredictability in his level of confidence is saddening..he looks like a cold-blooded killer at times, like the Mavs-Spurs series', but then he will proceed to become a moist hole for a few weeks..he needs some swag, tbh..

[Chieflion]

What PG?

[wunderkindepiphany]

He approaches the game like Tony, driving fearlessly, but he gets trapped often and fails to kick the ball back out and by the time he makes the pass, the other team has gotten in the passing lanes and he makes a pass that gets picked off. Or he'll try to make a crosscourt pass and it will be off the mark. He's just not a true PG. Hes fast though and he's courageous so i like watching him on the break with ginobili.

[chasky]

Hill just sucks, Reallly involuted in his game this season.

[HarlemHeat37]

Hill doesn't suck at all, he's a very solid player..he just needs to find a level of mental comfort when he is placed into scenarios of this nature..

[wunderkindepiphany]

Hill takes some time to find his rhythm, hes not one of those guys you can plug in for instant offense. Hes a blue-collar player and hell keep at it, but he doesn't do any one thing exceptionally well. He knows this, which is why hes a gym rat, always keeps his head down and maintains a positive attitude. Thing is, come the second half, most of the other teams players will be tired and more lackadaisical on their side of the ball and George Hill will still be giving you 110%.

[chasky]

Ohhhh Hill Just Grab the ball!!!!

[chasky]

5 TO, 1 Asist. Nice George.

[poop]

box score says he has 5 turnovers but i credited him with 9.

9 turnovers all by himself.

[timtonymanu]

LMAO any one who says Hill can take over the PG duties from Parker should be banned.

[Werdsniper2]

5 TO for hill. Brutal.

[alchemist]

LMAO any one who says Hill can take over the PG duties from Parker should be banned.
anyone with half a brain knew this.

[timtonymanu]

anyone with half a brain knew this.

yeah but i'm sure there's some poster out there that doesn't.

[FkLA]

Where the fuck were you guys last season when he was the starting PG during the 2nd half of the yr and the team completely turned their season around with him running the show?But yea let's ignore that and point to one poor half of play, lets go off of that and completely write him off as a PG.

:tu

[xmas1997]

He is just not a PG.

[Spurs da champs]

I'd rather have Arroyo then Hill.

[chasky]

The worst performance for an NBA player in a game that i remember in a long time. Just Patetic GH.

[gospursgojas]

I now pronounce George a 2guard....

He has played horribly tonight, all of the Spurs have, but most can be attributed to his inability to run the offense and take care of the ball.

[Spurs da champs]

I now pronounce George a 2guard....

He has played horribly tonight, all of the Spurs have, but most can be attributed to his inability to run the offense and take care of the ball.

6-2 2 guards don't cut it against the legit championship teams.:nope

[ShoogarBear]

Hill makes Roger Mason Jr look like Magic Johnson.

[ShoogarBear]

No, not really. Just wanted to try the line out.

[Ditty]

who cares he's a million times better then quinn..spurs need another point guard that can score...lmao at all the people who think just because quinn knows the system, he a good player, he can't play D for shit, we need a playmaker guard

btw I can't wait until this offseason when the Spurs work with Splitter how to box the fuck out

[Mugen]

Hill has the worst court vision on the team.

[Obstructed_View]

6-2 2 guards don't cut it against the legit championship teams.:nope

Memphis is a legit championship team?

[DesignatedT]

Worst individual performance of pro basketball I remember seeing.

[gospursgojas]

Im not bashing Hill, Hes our best scorer off the bench. Hes just not pg anymores.

[Spurs da champs]

Memphis is a legit championship team?

Of course not, did I say they were? Hill makes Conley look like Steve Nash at the pg, move him up to the shooting guard against the Kobes/Wades/Allens and he gets fucked up. He blows!

[Ditty]

Hill has the worst court vision on the team.

+1 on this one, he's a score first point guard that's why he was so good last year when he was playing in place with Paker, but of course always helped last year that Ginobili was going off

please come back soon Parker I'm hoping for at least a split this weekend, and a couple easy games next week, in which I hope Parker can come back later on next week against Sac or Houston.

[Ditty]

Worst individual performance of pro basketball I remember seeing.

The hornets game was a million times worse son

Hornets had about 5 open 3's in a row

[Obstructed_View]

Of course not, did I say they were? Hill makes Conley look like Steve Nash at the pg, move him up to the shooting guard against the Kobes/Wades/Allens and he gets fucked up. He blows!

Didn't you? Your posts don't really make any sense, but everyone's using this loss as an excuse to shit on the players they secretly hate.

[Kori Ellis]

Where the fuck were you guys last season when he was the starting PG during the 2nd half of the yr and the team completely turned their season around with him running the show?But yea let's ignore that and point to one poor half of play, lets go off of that and completely write him off as a PG.

:tu

During the time Tony was out last year, Manu was pretty much the PG. George Hill has had very few games in his career where he actually "ran the show." I like him a lot -- as a backup SG. But he averaged less than 1 assist in almost 35 mpg in the playoffs last year -- on par with guys like Bonner. No one should be surprised by his lack of PG skills at this point. During this stretch when Tony is out, he'll probably (hopefully) have a few great games. But he's really just not PG.

[Obstructed_View]

BTW, expect Carlos Arroyo to be a Spur within 24 hours.

[DesignatedT]

The hornets game was a million times worse son

Hornets had about 5 open 3's in a row

I was talking about Hill tonight, not the team performance.

Key word: Individual

[Spurs da champs]

Didn't you? Your posts don't really make any sense, but everyone's using this loss as an excuse to shit on the players they secretly hate.
lol ok sir.
Hill has always shown he can't run the point; he already peaked, might as well trade him while he still has worth in the off season.

[gospursgojas]

During the time Tony was out last year, Manu was pretty much the PG. George Hill has had very few games in his career where he actually "ran the show." I like him a lot -- as a backup SG. But he averaged less than 1 assist in almost 35 mpg in the playoffs last year -- on par with guys like Bonner. No one should be surprised by his lack of PG skills at this point. During this stretch when Tony is out, he'll probably (hopefully) have a few great games. But he's really just not PG.

This


BTW, expect Carlos Arroyo to be a Spur within 24 hours.

and this

[Spurs Brazil]

BTW, expect Carlos Arroyo to be a Spur within 24 hours.

Before the game I was 100% against it, after see Quinn and Hill why not give Arroyo a shot

[redskinfan]

Hill the PG needs Timmy the hall of famer to help!

[Ditty]

I was talking about Hill tonight, not the team performance.

Key word: Individual

Ohh I thought it was more of horrible play from alot of individual players that game

ohh well there's been many other shitty performances this season, that have gone unnoticed because we've been winning.

[FkLA]

During the time Tony was out last year, Manu was pretty much the PG. George Hill has had very few games in his career where he actually "ran the show." I like him a lot -- as a backup SG. But he averaged less than 1 assist in almost 35 mpg in the playoffs last year -- on par with guys like Bonner. No one should be surprised by his lack of PG skills at this point. During this stretch when Tony is out, he'll probably (hopefully) have a few great games. But he's really just not PG.

Hill isnt a pass first guy but he can be a scoring PG. And a starting caliber PG at that especially in the Spurs system where as you mentioned he has Manu who has great vision and can help him with the distributing...his strength will always be scoring but there is no reason why he couldnt average 4-5 apg with extended minutes. Which is what Parker averaged during his first five years or so in the league btw. His handles are solid too, one bad night doesnt change that. The Spurs are grooming him as a PG, I dont see why Spurstalk is hell bent on making him a SG. The kid is in his 3rd yr, still learning the position, give him time before you write him off as a PG.

[Warlord23]

Hill isnt a pass first guy but he can be a scoring PG. And a starting caliber PG at that especially in the Spurs system where as you mentioned he has Manu who has great vision and can help him with the distributing...his strength will always be scoring but there is no reason why he couldnt average 4-5 apg with extended minutes. Which is what Parker averaged during his first five years or so in the league btw. His handles are solid too, one bad night doesnt change that. The Spurs are grooming him as a PG, I dont see why Spurstalk is hell bent on making him a SG. The kid is in his 3rd yr, still learning the position, give him time before you write him off as a PG.

I'll start believing this BS as soon as Hill can prove that he can bring the ball across half court and throw it to Tim or Manu with 10 or more seconds on the shot clock. The corpse of Jacque Vaughn could have done better than Hill.

[Obstructed_View]

Hill isnt a pass first guy but he can be a scoring PG. And a starting caliber PG at that especially in the Spurs system where as you mentioned he has Manu who has great vision and can help him with the distributing...his strength will always be scoring but there is no reason why he couldnt average 4-5 apg with extended minutes. Which is what Parker averaged during his first five years or so in the league btw. His handles are solid too, one bad night doesnt change that. The Spurs are grooming him as a PG, I dont see why Spurstalk is hell bent on making him a SG. The kid is in his 3rd yr, still learning the position, give him time before you write him off as a PG.

Stupid post of the year nominee.

[HarlemHeat37]

Hill has absolutely no PG skills at all..I completely disagree about his handles..as a SG, I could see the argument, but his ball-handling isn't nearly advanced enough to play the PG position..

He's a terrible passer, he has no court vision, he has confidence issues..if you want to be a starting PG on a good team, those are 3 flaws that are fatal to your potential success..

I like Hill, I think he's a very solid player, but his ceiling is a very good 6th man..his age isn't an excuse for his ineptitude as a PG..it's very difficult for any player to make the transition to the PG position, as it is, but any player that has hopes of eventually becoming a starting PG would have already shown flashes of consistency at the position by now..

[xellos88330]

He was a deer in the headlights tonight. He doesn't get a pass from me for this crap performance. This is his third year on the team, he should know better. No excuses for the guy, he has the ability to step up, and instead he steps backwards at the first sign of pressure. I expected a whole lot more than he showed tonight. Hopefully tomorrow Pop will either light a fire under his ass, or make Manu the PG.

[FkLA]

Its pretty easy to rip on a guy after arguably the worst game of his career. I agree that his handles arent top notch but they also arent as atrocious as tonight's game suggests....by solid I didnt mean that they were exceptional. His vision is actually pretty poor, but like I said when you have a guy with Manu's distributing ability that can help him shoulder some of the load. Similar to how playing alongside a prime TD took alot of pressure of Tony in that respect, because tbh Tony wasnt exactly a great orchestrator in his earlier yrs either...he was a scoring PG and very little else. People seem to forget that Speedy Claxton had to bail him out during several 4th qtrs in the 03' playoffs because of his inability to run the offense efficiently.

Now obviously Hill likely wont develope into the PG Parker is today, but the kid can develope into a starting PG imo. In due time.

[Obstructed_View]

Its pretty easy to rip on a guy after arguably the worst game of his career. I agree that his handles arent top notch but they also arent as atrocious as tonight's game suggests....by solid I didnt mean that they were exceptional. His vision is actually pretty poor, but like I said when you have a guy with Manu's distributing ability that can help him shoulder some of the load. Similar to how playing alongside a prime TD took alot of pressure of Tony in that respect, because tbh Tony wasnt exactly a great orchestrator in his earlier yrs either...he was a scoring PG and very little else. People seem to forget that Speedy Claxton had to bail him out during several 4th qtrs in the 03' playoffs because of his inability to run the offense efficiently.

Now obviously Hill likely wont develope into the PG Parker is today, but the kid can develope into a starting PG imo. In due time.

Not exactly. :lol

[FkLA]

He didnt get benched in favor Speedy during that title run?

[BackHome]

I don't know why it is such a suprise that Hill is not a PG some of us having been saying that since he came in the league. The guy is SG and will always be a SG don't make him into something he is not....He doesn't have court vision, ball skills, and court awareness.

He does need to keep on working on the corner shot and taking the ball the the rack and being able to finish. He needs to be reminded that he is our defense stopper he is not Manu..

[rmt]

I'll never complain about TP's passing ever again. Hill needs to leave the passing to Manu, Duncan or (even) Neal. Hope this stretch doesn't mess with Hill's confidence going into the playoffs.

Spurs have been a well-oiled machine this year. Parker being out and Manu having a bad game really highlights how dependent RJ, Bonner and Neal (somewhat) are on being set up. It's not even that the players were shooting poorly - just all out of sync.

Spurs have 4 SGs and 1 SF. Brewer, please come to SA.

[SenorSpur]

I don't get how the kid STILL is unable to run a simple pick-n-roll.

[Hoops Czar]

I don't get how the kid STILL is unable to run a simple pick-n-roll.

Not everyone learns at the same speed.

[MaNu4Tres]

I don't get how the kid STILL is unable to run a simple pick-n-roll.

He hasn't developed efficient counters for strong hedges.

[SenorSpur]

I like Hill and he's a good player most nights. However I still believe he's going to have to develop abilities as a combo guard to have a prolonged career. His future as strictly a 6'2" SG, will be sorely limited.

Ben Gordon is a streaky and undersized shooting guard at 6'2". However, he's managing to survive because he's got a terrific stroke - along with some clutch.

I don't see that in Hill's future.

[TD 21]

Hill has absolutely no PG skills at all..I completely disagree about his handles..as a SG, I could see the argument, but his ball-handling isn't nearly advanced enough to play the PG position..

He's a terrible passer, he has no court vision, he has confidence issues..if you want to be a starting PG on a good team, those are 3 flaws that are fatal to your potential success..

I like Hill, I think he's a very solid player, but his ceiling is a very good 6th man..his age isn't an excuse for his ineptitude as a PG..it's very difficult for any player to make the transition to the PG position, as it is, but any player that has hopes of eventually becoming a starting PG would have already shown flashes of consistency at the position by now..

Excellent post.

Hill is a more athletic, normal version of Delonte West. Barring a catastrophic injury, he'll be one of the better sixth men in the league for a long time. He's a perfect third guard for this team, because of the way he compliments Parker and Ginobili.

But, when he's forced to legitimately play PG, he get's exposed. The Spurs got away with it last season for two reasons. 1) Ginobili was playing out of his mind, to the point where he was the best player in the league down the stretch. 2) Hill wasn't established yet. He wasn't a focus of opposing defenses. Now, everyone knows about him and they all know he's not a PG, which is why you see his dribble pressured more and him facing more traps. When the big three are whole, he's able to fly under the radar. When one's down, particularly Parker, he becomes a bigger part of the focus for the opposition.

[jjktkk]

I like Hill and he's a good player most nights. However I still believe he's going to have to develop abilities as a combo guard to have a prolonged career. His future as strictly a 6'2" SG, will be sorely limited.

Ben Gordon is a streaky and undersized shooting guard at 6'2". However, he's managing to survive because he's got a terrific stroke - along with some clutch.

I don't see that in Hill's future.

Hill has a future has a sg who can defend and knock down the 3. Not really starting material, more of a bench guy. I actually use to think he could play some point, but that ship has sailed. if he hasn't shown any improvement as a pg in year 3.....

[Gregzilla]

Hill has a future has a sg who can defend and knock down the 3. Not really starting material, more of a bench guy. I actually use to think he could play some point, but that ship has sailed. if he hasn't shown any improvement as a pg in year 3.....

On point....Hill's a Tweener and is best off the bench..I compare him to shannon brown of LA, shannon's not quite ready for the torch from Fisher but he still brings some things to table (athleticism, speed, energy, streaky shooting)...Parker's 3rd year he was avg 14 and 5 and the potential was VERY obvious. Hill's good but def a role player in this league.


...by the way, I would LOVE to have shannon brown rocking silver and black..always liked the guy's game

[Obstructed_View]

He didnt get benched in favor Speedy during that title run?

Several times? The Speedy legend grows.

[mingus]

Hill doesn't even play back up PG. When he comes in for Manu midway through the 1st, Parker is playing PG. When Manu goes in for Parker after he gets rest, Manu is playing point with Hill at SG. Manu essentially plays SG/PG for this team. Hill is completely out of his realm at the PG position because he doesn't play it and no one should expect him to play it well. He has as much credentials at the PG position as Neal.

Hill is a limited basektball player, people should stop expecting him to be anything more than an above average perimiter defender with good spot up shooting ability. He shines when he doesn't have to do that much offensively and can play off of others. Don't expect him to initiate an offense on a consistent basis because that's just not and will never be in his game.

[ajballer4]

Hes playing much more aggressive tonight, consistently getting to the hoop.

[FkLA]

Several times? The Speedy legend grows.

Yes, several times. That didnt just happen once or twice during that run.

[baseline bum]

Nice bounceback game for Hill tonight. I hope he can have more games like this and leave yesterday's game in Memphis for good (barring any playoff matchup with them, lol).

[EricB]

Yes, several times. That didnt just happen once or twice during that run.


Lets see theres game 6 vs the Nets and......


Nope thats it.

[Obstructed_View]

Yes, several times. That didnt just happen once or twice during that run.

Well, you're half right; it didn't happen twice.

[EricB]

Well, you're half right; it didn't happen twice.


:lol

Ya know I liked Speedy too, but acting like he was Manu Ginobili in 2005 is all we heard post 2003, and for some reason STILL to this DAY it happens...

[FkLA]

Who's saying Speedy was anything more than an average role player?Dont assume shit, everyone that saw Speedy play knows that he was nothing more than that...but the fact that an average role player had to come in during several fourth qtrs because Tony wasnt running the offense efficiently was a point I made to illustrate that Tony had his struggles learning the position in his earlier yrs as well. Not to glorify Speedy.

Someone that knows were to find boxscores that break down minutes played in every quarter, let me know because it happened more than once.

[Obstructed_View]

Fine. Good luck with that.

Moving on to the point you were trying to support: Tony Parker was a point guard when he played professionally in France. Tony Parker was a point guard when he came to the Spurs. Tony Parker has never been anything other than a point guard. George Hill was a shooting guard when he was in high school. George Hill was a shooting guard when he was in college. George Hill has never been anything other than a shooting guard. Shooting guards do not transition into point guards in the NBA. Ever. Some guys that aren't point guards can dribble the ball up, pass it around and retain their effectiveness without racking up turnovers, and George can do that. He hasn't figured out how to do it consistently yet.

[EricB]

Who's saying Speedy was anything more than an average role player?Dont assume shit, everyone that saw Speedy play knows that he was nothing more than that...but the fact that an average role player had to come in during several fourth qtrs because Tony wasnt running the offense efficiently was a point I made to illustrate that Tony had his struggles learning the position in his earlier yrs as well. Not to glorify Speedy.

Someone that knows were to find boxscores that break down minutes played in every quarter, let me know because it happened more than once.


No, no he didn't....

[MannyIsGod]

Not every guy 1-12 needs to be a damn superstar. Some of you expect way too much out of a SIXTH MAN.

[FkLA]

Fine. Good luck with that.

Moving on to the point you were trying to support: Tony Parker was a point guard when he played professionally in France. Tony Parker was a point guard when he came to the Spurs. Tony Parker has never been anything other than a point guard. George Hill was a shooting guard when he was in high school. George Hill was a shooting guard when he was in college. George Hill has never been anything other than a shooting guard. Shooting guards do not transition into point guards in the NBA. Ever. Some guys that aren't point guards can dribble the ball up, pass it around and retain their effectiveness without racking up turnovers, and George can do that. He hasn't figured out how to do it consistently yet.

Thanks.

I'm aware of what positions both players played prior to coming into the NBA. As far players never transitioning, off the top of my head...Stephen Curry played SG in college if I remember correctly. Now obviously these players making that kind of transition won't ever be true PGs, but they can do a decent enough job running the point...although their biggest strength will always be scoring. George Hill can be one of those players.

Also I made it pretty clear that Hill doesnt have the ceiling Tony had in his earlier yrs as a PG, the fact that I compared their struggles was not to suggest that Hill will one day be as good. It was simply to show that alot of young players struggle running point, that its premature to write him off as a PG already. He can be a starting caliber PG, especially in the right situation...which this team provides for him.

[Obstructed_View]

I don't know that Curry's a starting caliber point guard either, but he's doing a pretty good job on a team whose two best players are shooting guards. If you're going to cite him as a success story, then Iverson and Arenas probably deserve a mention as well.

Hill can manage not to have a negative assist to turnover ratio and still do the things that makes him valuable. If that's "starting caliber" to you, then we probably agree. At some point I'm hoping the coaching staff figures out that isn't the role they should be trying to get him into.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Hill had a great game to answer his inner critic, primarily because he stopped trying to be something he's not - a pure PG. When he just plays his game and attacks the rim, picks his spots for pull-ups, and pops up in the corner occasionally, he scores much better and also finds opportunities for his teammates. And when he does that he and Manu are almost telepathic. Keep the authentic George Hill coming please George. :D

[FkLA]

27 pts, 6 asst, 0 TOs

How come people arent crowning Hill for this one great game the way people were crucifying him for his one horrible one? Just wondering tbh.

[wontstartdumbthreads]

27 pts, 6 asst, 0 TOs

How come people arent crowning Hill for this one great game the way people were crucifying him for his one horrible one? Just wondering tbh.

You have read SpursTalk before...right?

[Obstructed_View]

27 pts, 6 asst, 0 TOs

How come people arent crowning Hill for this one great game the way people were crucifying him for his one horrible one? Just wondering tbh.

Hill's playing exactly the way I said he should be playing in order to be effective. He needs to be aggressive and look for his own shot instead of trying to be a pass-first setup guy. Assists happen for a guy like Hill when he's scoring and drawing attention from defenders.

BTW, Hill had a number of horrid games, so let's wait until he does this a few more times before we declare him playoff-ready, okay?

[DMC]

He's a good 2. He's not a PG. He doesn't pass worth a damn. In fact, I don't know if he sees anyone else on the floor when he has the ball.

[DMC]

Hill's playing exactly the way I said he should be playing in order to be effective. He needs to be aggressive and look for his own shot instead of trying to be a pass-first setup guy. Assists happen for a guy like Hill when he's scoring and drawing attention from defenders.

BTW, Hill had a number of horrid games, so let's wait until he does this a few more times before we declare him playoff-ready, okay?

That makes sense (first paragraph) if Hill passes out of double coverage or a collapsing defense, but he doesn't. Why draw the defense if you have no intention of passing the ball? TP splits the defense and causes them to tighten up. Hill just blitzes down court and throws up a shot. It's not the same thing. Hill did good, but we need a real backup PG, not just a 2 who can dribble.

[Obstructed_View]

That makes sense (first paragraph) if Hill passes out of double coverage or a collapsing defense, but he doesn't. Why draw the defense if you have no intention of passing the ball? TP splits the defense and causes them to tighten up. Hill just blitzes down court and throws up a shot. It's not the same thing. Hill did good, but we need a real backup PG, not just a 2 who can dribble.

I'm not sure how you don't understand this, so I'll make it very simple: You can't draw the defense if they think you intend to pass the ball. You can't even draw defenders to you if you're trying to score, you have to actually be scoring by beating a single defender, and unlike Parker that's the only way Hill is going to get assists. Those assists will only come for him if he's being aggressive and scoring as teams sag or double and his teammates are freed up. Hill was a great scorer in college, and it's going to end up as his primary strength as a pro. Might as well take advantage of it.

I agree that the Spurs should have a legitimate backup point guard instead of Hill, but it doesn't change what Georgie needs to be doing to maximize his effectiveness.

[DMC]

If you don't intend to pass the ball when the defense sags, there's no reason to drive the lane against 3 guys. You are more often than not going to get into trouble.

There's not a team in the NBA that doesn't know the scheme you are referring to. They expect the guy to pass, so they sag instead of collapse. When he scores over and over, they begin to collapse. What happens when they collapse and the PG doesn't pass the ball? It becomes a 10' running bank shot with 4 other guys standing around watching, every trip down court. Not involved on offense means not involved on defense (often).

Hill is a really good 2 guard. He can attack the rim really well and finish almost as well as Manu, not as well as Tony but no one does. Still, with his 30 against Memphis, he had 1 assist. He had 6 last night but I believe half of those were on the break.

I think there's a difference between a shoot first PG and a shoot always PG. The Spurs have enough offensive weapons to not need a shoot first PG on the floor, except in the case where TP cannot be stopped and he's ahead of the pack. Otherwise, get others involved.

Still, he did a fantastic job last night. He will be one of the best in the league if he's not already, but I don't see him at the PG spot in the future. I see Manu and George in the same role, not Tony and George.

[Mal]

I watched only 1st half, but Hill looked great. I remeber him @Memphis when he was just awful. Yesterday he was the leader and had a great game. Dont know what to think of him

[Obstructed_View]

If you don't intend to pass the ball when the defense sags, there's no reason to drive the lane against 3 guys. You are more often than not going to get into trouble.

There's not a team in the NBA that doesn't know the scheme you are referring to. They expect the guy to pass, so they sag instead of collapse. When he scores over and over, they begin to collapse. What happens when they collapse and the PG doesn't pass the ball? It becomes a 10' running bank shot with 4 other guys standing around watching, every trip down court. Not involved on offense means not involved on defense (often).

Hill is a really good 2 guard. He can attack the rim really well and finish almost as well as Manu, not as well as Tony but no one does. Still, with his 30 against Memphis, he had 1 assist. He had 6 last night but I believe half of those were on the break.

I think there's a difference between a shoot first PG and a shoot always PG. The Spurs have enough offensive weapons to not need a shoot first PG on the floor, except in the case where TP cannot be stopped and he's ahead of the pack. Otherwise, get others involved.

Still, he did a fantastic job last night. He will be one of the best in the league if he's not already, but I don't see him at the PG spot in the future. I see Manu and George in the same role, not Tony and George.

I don't know, but I know what happens when they collapse on Hill, because he did pass: he gets six assists and no turnovers.

[G-Dawgg]

George is a killer. Period.

Hill with it.

[ezau]

With the way he's playing so far, should he start or come off the bench when Manu and TP return?

IMHO, he will be great if he comes off the bench with TP or Manu manning the point. He'll be like our Jason Terry who's just better at finishing and defending. While we're at it, let's not forget that he's also brilliant when Tiago is on the floor with him.

[TJastal]

This thread has a familiar feel to it, I know I've see/read it before.

Parker takes one of his many annual 2 week vacations for foot/knee/calf whatever. Hill gets tossed into the fire to play a position he plays only sporadically at best; proceeds to have a bad game or two. The usual spurstalk crowd has a meltdown about how much Hill sucks as a point guard and how he should be traded.

Then just as sure as rain in the jungle, Hill starts to play better and better as he adjusts to his new role. I won't be surprised in the least if his confidence starts shooting off the charts in the next few weeks and ends up helping to carry the team to several critical postseason victories.

And then I will bump this thread and have a laugh at all the crybabies in it.

[TJastal]

29 point so far againt the suns? Trade him!!!!

[ShoogarBear]

The title of the thread is "Hill the PG".

He still isn't one, even when he plays well.

[Obstructed_View]

Hill's so good when he shoots. I wonder if there's a name for a guard whose primary role is to shoot the ball...

[FuzzyLumpkins]

They run pick and rolls all day long and he does fine penetrating and finding open shooters. Hes getting better with his spacing and has made several nice passes in traffic.

Hes was overpenetrating and getting stuck under the basket or throwing the ball out there ealier in the year but hes gotten better about that. He is just getting better all the time.

[Truth4sale$]

Some players simply are better as starters. It benefits the team if Manu comes off the bench and Hill starts.

[Pauleta14]

Some players simply are better as starters. It benefits the team if Manu comes off the bench and Hill starts.


some players can do both (Manu & Tony), some can't... (Hill)

some players are tough mentaly (Manu &Tony), some aren't ...(Hill)

:bang

[Brazil]

some players can do both (Manu & Tony), some can't... (Hill)

some players are tough mentaly (Manu &Tony), some aren't ...(Hill)

:bang

Yeah but when Hill is aggressive he is a superb player. During the phx game he had some really nice penetrations, you can tell he is taking advantage of the fact to see TP going inside every night.

If only his confidence could be at the same level as TP, he would be deadly.

[FkLA]

Hill is a 3rd year player. Tony and Manu are in what their 8th and 9th yrs, with 3 titles under their belts? Of course theyre going to be ahead of him confidence wise...Tony wasnt exactly a confident guy in his earlier yrs either. Hill does fine off the bench btw, he just happens to do better as a starter.

[Pauleta14]

Yeah but when Hill is aggressive he is a superb player. During the phx game he had some really nice penetrations, you can tell he is taking advantage of the fact to see TP going inside every night.

If only his confidence could be at the same level as TP, he would be deadly.


+1

Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge fan of Hill too!

But we have to admit now, that he is not made in the same "kind of wood" than Tony or Manu...

It reminds me an interview of Pop in whitch he was asked why he was so hard on Tony at the begining of his career, he used a methaphor with a stallion (if you remember...).

He said something like he had to know what kind of "material" Tony was made of and that the way TP responded showed him (early) that he was special. (that he had a stallion and not a "random" horse...)

I bet Pop would have loved to have been able to have the same kind of "coaching" with George, but last year's "he's my favorite player" showed that he's the kind of player/human being who needs to be "cuddled" or have is "back to the wall" to perform at his best.

His recent reaction to the "fake fans" on twiter shows me that he gives too much importance to people's opinion, Tony and Manu are who they are also because they don't care what people think...
(as a french, maybe you remember how NOBODY believed TP would perform in the nba and that he was too young, too pretentious... Tony didn't listen to any of them)

George is still young and I don't pretend knowing him perfectly or anything, but I don't think you can change the nature of someone, he'll never be a "killer".

Anyway, the thread was about "Hill the PG" and I think that on that matter everybody (Pop included) has accepted the fact that he is a real SG.
The only way he could have become a PG was if ("a la" Westbrook) he could have learned the position as a starter (with more PT)

...which means Tony is either injured or traded... :depressed

[Brazil]

Anyway, the thread was about "Hill the PG" and I think that on that matter everybody (Pop included) has accepted the fact that he is a real SG.
The only way he could have become a PG was if ("a la" Westbrook) he could have learned the position as a starter (with more PT)

...which means Tony is either injured or traded... :depressed

To be fair, only some spurs fans thought Hill could substitute TP.
Pop and spurs FO have drafted a pure SG, they didn't expect Hill to be the future PG of the team.
Oh and Hill has 0 potential to be become a PG a la Westbrook even with tons of PT as starter. He just doesn't have this kind of upside.

[duncan228]

Indiana George and the Temple of Doom (http://www.48minutesofhell.com/)
by Jesse Blanchard
48 Minutes of Hell

AT&T CENTER — Who would have thought that George Hill, mild mannered backup point guard for the San Antonio Spurs, was merely a cover for his more potent alter ego, super sub Indiana George?

In the midst of a six game losing streak, extended in part due to a careless turnover committed by Hill in Houston, Indiana George came out yesterday guns blazing. The reserve—and normally reserved—guard hit his first five shots en route to 29 points and four assists in the Spurs 114-97 victory (http://www.48minutesofhell.com/san-antonio-spurs-phoenix-suns-slump-buster).

For most of the season, Hill has managed to keep near the level of play that made him one of the most improved players in the NBA a season ago. Now Spurs head coach Gregg Popovich is asking for more. He’s asking him to go back to his roots, to return to Indiana.

Keep reading → (http://www.48minutesofhell.com/indiana-george-and-the-temple-of-doom#more-13496)

[Josepatches_]

Hill is a 3rd year player. Tony and Manu are in what their 8th and 9th yrs, with 3 titles under their belts? Of course theyre going to be ahead of him confidence wise...Tony wasnt exactly a confident guy in his earlier yrs either. Hill does fine off the bench btw, he just happens to do better as a starter.

Agree


When Tony,Manu and Tim were out he leads the team.He wasn't afraid to do it.But you can't do it when you have 3 all stars playing around you.

It's not confidence or mental problem.It's that you are not the number one guy,number 2 or number 3.He can't score 20 every game because he can't take so many shots as Manu or Tony.That's all.

If Pop ask him to shoot more I'm pretty sure he will be more agressive every game.

He's not as good as Tony,he's not as good as Manu but he's a pretty good player for us.It's only that he had a different role because he has HOF besides him in the team.

[cheguevara]

Main problem with Hill is consistency.

At his best he is a poor man's DRose. At worse he is Roger Mason Jr. We just don't know who we gonna get at times...

[jjktkk]

I like Hill as a player, but in year 3, I expected him to not have confidence issues. That said, I like what I've been seeing of Hill recently. Hes showing confidence and is looking to score more. Keep it up George.

[Ice009]

This is the George Hill I've been looking for all season. This is the way George needs to play for the Spurs.

Saint Tiago, maybe the next sign needs to be 'Indiana George'. Have the signs up there so George knows what we want from him and that is for George to be aggressive all the time.

[Cane]

He's been steadily expanding his game and this season he's developed a more versatile 3 point shot. Hill used to just shoot the corner 3's but now he'll take just about any open shot at the arc.

Like everyone else on the Spurs he's not a true PG (unless Quinn counts although he's an end of the bench player anyway) but he really needs to be aggressive and penetrate to the rim in order to make plays and make the right pass. Gary Neal has helped since he has a good overall game including ball handling and making entry passes. I hope to see Hill and Neal with more minutes and attempts so the Big 3 can get more rest.

[duncan228]

San Antonio's Most Important Piece? (http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=19337)
By: Yannis Koutroupis
Hoopsworld

The 2008 NBA Draft was accurately projected as a class that possessed some guards who would have a major impact right away. The Chicago Bulls' Derrick Rose, Oklahoma City Thunders' Russell Westbrook and Eric Gordon of the Los Angeles Clippers have already established themselves as some of the league's best.

George Hill, who the San Antonio Spurs selected 26th overall that year, wasn't expected to be one of the classes' top guards. In fact, many viewed him as a questionable selection who the Spurs settled on after the Houston Rockets took Nicolas Batum, a player that the Spurs' reportedly coveted more than anyone else. Yet, three years in only the aforementioned World Champion Gold Medalists – and maybe O.J. Mayo of the Memphis Grizzlies – can claim to be better.

Hill has proven to be quite the steal for the Spurs, a franchise renowned for their ability to find draft diamonds in the rough. At one point Spurs head coach Gregg Popovich deemed him his favorite player due to his willingness to play and excel in whatever role he's asked to play. Hill has played both guard positions as a starter and reserve. Up to this point the only gripe Popovich has had with him is that he doesn't realize how good he is.

On Sunday against the Phoenix Suns Hill seemed fully aware of how big of a difference maker he could be. He scored 29 points on 10-16 shooting from the field and 4-7 from deep while dishing out four assists with no turnovers to help the Spurs end their six-game losing streak.

"George had another one of those games where he's aggressive," Popovich said. "When he comes off the bench and gives what Manu (Ginobili) used to give us coming off the bench it really helps our group. I thought he did that very well today.

"We're trying to get him to the point where every time he steps on the floor he knows that he's a heck of a player, that we want him to be aggressive and that he has the green light to do that and be a scorer. It's just a process, he's a young guy and a respectful guy who defers. He wants everybody to be happy. In an ironic sort of way we're trying to get him to be more selfish."

It's not just Popovich who wants to see him be more aggressive either, Hill's backcourt mate Tony Parker feels the exact same way.

"He needs to be aggressive, especially coming off of the bench," Parker said. "He was great, being very aggressive, shooting the ball very well, playing great defense. He did everything."

Keep reading... (http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=19337)

http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=19337

[duncan228]

George Hill and the Green Light (http://offthedribble.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/04/05/george-hill-and-the-green-light/)
By Rob Mahoney
Off The Dribble
The New York Times

Within 15 seconds of entering Sunday’s game against the Phoenix Suns, George Hill had made his first basket. After 35 seconds more, he had made another. Minutes later, Hill was in the midst of a full-blown explosion, as he dropped a pair of pull-up three-pointers, hit a short jumper, and then successfully executed the patented, controversial “rip move (http://www.dailythunder.com/2011/03/should-kds-rip-move-be-called-a-foul/)” to earn three foul shots and pull off an 11-2 run all on his own. Toss in an extra basket and a technical free throw, and Hill concluded his six-minute stint in the first quarter with 16 points and spotless shooting from the field and the free throw line.

That kind of burst is exactly what makes Hill fascinating to some, confounding to others, and occasionally infuriating to those who understand and appreciate his scoring capability. Such a showcase has simply been uncharacteristic of Hill’s N.B.A. career, though hardly because of a lack of talent; Hill has come to embody San Antonio role player deference, and while that respect for the Spurs’ pecking order is surely appreciated, Hill is considerably more gifted than the specialists who typically fill minutes alongside Tim Duncan, Manu Ginobili and Tony Parker.

Hill has the potential for much more than players in the Roger Mason Jr.-Brent Barry-Michael Finley mold. He needn’t confine himself to the perimeter, nor attempt to be wholly accommodating to his high-profile teammates. More than any other contemporary Spur role player, Hill is in a position to force his own way; not only is he talented enough to provide another dimension to San Antonio’s offense, but Hill has also been given Gregg Popovich’s blessing (via Jesse Blanchard of 48 Minutes of Hell (http://www.48minutesofhell.com/indiana-george-and-the-temple-of-doom)):


“We’re trying to get him to the point where every time he steps on the floor he knows that he’s a heck of a player, that we want him to be aggressive and that he has the green light to do that and be a scorer,” Popovich said. “It’s just a process. He’s a young guy and a respectful guy who defers and wants everybody to be happy. In an ironic sort of way, we’re trying to get him to be more selfish.”

Keep reading... (http://offthedribble.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/04/05/george-hill-and-the-green-light/)

http://offthedribble.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/04/05/george-hill-and-the-green-light/

[DMC]

The Spurs system is strange. Pop calls timeouts 40 seconds into the game, sometimes earlier. It's hard for a player to make corrections on the court when he's being micromanaged from the sidelines. Tony does well with that, Hill not so much. Like Neal, you can see the frustration in his face when the opponent goes on a run or when a play is busted that ends in points at the opposite end. That look, to me, looks like "shit, Pop is going to be mad, bench here I come".

Like someone else said, Hill does not have good court vision. Also, although it's probably setup that way, I really don't like how he dribbles into the corner and gets trapped so often. You rarely see TP take the ball deep into the corner, he just probes up front and either dishes or finds a seam. Hill heads straight for the corner and often has to shoot or make a cross court pass. Again, it could be a designed play, but it looks bad from my perspective.

[5in10]

http://offthedribble.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/04/05/george-hill-and-the-green-light/

Unleash yourself George.

[DMC]

Unleash yourself George.

Yes, but don't take any pics.

[duncan228]

The great artificial point guard debate: George Hill as “The Singularity” (http://www.48minutesofhell.com/)
by Jesse Blanchard
48 Minutes of Hell

-KxjVlaLBmk

Can the spark of the divine be created in something where it is not inherent? Creativity can be nurtured, but in doing so is it instilling something that was not there before or simply providing the tools to express what already was?

More importantly, at least for the purpose of this discussion and the future development of one George Hill, are point guards created or born?

Keep reading... (http://www.48minutesofhell.com/the-great-artificial-point-guard-debate-george-hill-as-the-singularity#more-13508)