How good are these Knicks? [Archive]

02-28-2011, 01:53 AM

Open to opinion.

Personally, I think they are good enough to beat the powerhouses of the East once they've gelled and created some sort of chemistry.

Although the acquisition of Carmelo Anthony is thought to have put them over the top, I have stuck with my assertion that Billups is the more significant acquisition. Dude just knows how to play, and win.

If they were to make it to the finals and face either the Lakers or Spurs (with both teams playing at full strength), I think the Knicks would take either team to six or seven games.

Juan

02-28-2011, 01:54 AM

1.Mavs
2.OKC (with new trade)
3.Knicks
4.Celtics
5.the rest

I think Dallas is clear favorite still because of the guard play. Kidd is AWESOME BABY! and JJ Barea is lightning fast, too fast for parker!

HarlemHeat37

02-28-2011, 01:56 AM

1st round exit if they play the top 3, long series if they play Orlando..

Obstructed_View

02-28-2011, 01:57 AM

I think Miami failed to take into account that the Knicks were coming off a loss to the Cavs. I'll believe Carmelo and Amare are winners when I see it happen, particularly with Mike D'Antoni coaching them. NBA teams need more than "Go play good, guys" during a timeout.

02-28-2011, 01:59 AM

The lone two credible replies to my post fail to take into account the play of Billups.

I will bump this thread when, and if the Knicks go far.

It'll be because of Billups.

DJ Mbenga

02-28-2011, 02:01 AM

they certainly lack depth. but in the playoffs 8 man rotations are common. size is gonna bother them. they could be very good if they could manage to get either powe or murphy but it wont happen

ElNono

02-28-2011, 02:05 AM

Not that good. The only saving grace is that Billups has a higher basketball knowledge than Mike D'Antoni. Which sucks since it's going to make Mike look better than what he really is.

Obstructed_View

02-28-2011, 02:07 AM

The lone two credible replies to my post fail to take into account the play of Billups.

I will bump this thread when, and if the Knicks go far.

It'll be because of Billups.

I took Billups into account, and determined that it's not enough to counterbalance the things I mentioned. Billups had Carmelo in Denver, too.

02-28-2011, 02:12 AM

I took Billups into account, and determined that it's not enough to counterbalance the things I mentioned. Billups had Carmelo in Denver, too.

Neither of them had Amare.

Red Hawk #21

02-28-2011, 02:13 AM

If they could lock down on D and rebound they would be really scary, but this is a Mike D'antoni coached team so we all know that's not gunna happen. Regardless, their offense will carry them on most nights.

Darrin

02-28-2011, 02:15 AM

I think they are the 4th best team in the East. I think, unlike Miami, these guys are willing to sacrifice to win basketball games. I love Chauncey Billups, and I am officially on the New York Knicks bandwagon. I'll be hoping for a Celtics/Knicks matchup somewhere in the postseason. That will be my Conference Finals.

Obstructed_View

02-28-2011, 02:19 AM

Neither of them had Amare.

If you put all three of them on a team five years ago I might agree with you.

02-28-2011, 02:23 AM

If you put all three of them on a team five years ago I might agree with you.

They are still good players. Melo is an overrated player. However, Chauncey and Amare are stellar.

The rest of the Knick squad will have to grow some balls in order to put them over the top of other Eastern conference teams. Having Billups in that locker room will do just so, imo.

Darrin

02-28-2011, 02:24 AM

I took Billups into account, and determined that it's not enough to counterbalance the things I mentioned. Billups had Carmelo in Denver, too.

And if the Denver Nuggets changed Conferences right now they would be the fourth-best team in the Conference. Yes, better than Orlando and Atlanta. They made the Conference Finals in 2009. There's chemistry and success between those two. There's a reason that Denver wanted to keep Billups and it's not just because he's the hometown kid. They knew the team could win if they had a point guard.

Red Hawk #21

02-28-2011, 02:24 AM

I seriously think the Knicks can beat Boston tbh.

j.dizzle

02-28-2011, 02:26 AM

Obstructed_View

02-28-2011, 02:27 AM

02-28-2011, 02:28 AM

As you said in the OP: Open to opinion. I disagree.

Fair enough.

Obstructed_View

02-28-2011, 02:29 AM

And if the Denver Nuggets changed Conferences right now they would be the fourth-best team in the Conference. Yes, better than Orlando and Atlanta. They made the Conference Finals in 2009. There's chemistry and success between those two. There's a reason that Denver wanted to keep Billups and it's not just because he's the hometown kid. They knew the team could win if they had a point guard.

Billups would be a lot of help for the Nuggets right now because they could use a leader now that their most immature player is gone. They also have a ton of young guards for him to mentor.

But the main reason Denver wanted to keep him is because he's the hometown kid.

Obstructed_View

02-28-2011, 02:31 AM

They have no size & need better role players. The good news is that not many teams in the league have bigs with real post up talent. Getting Melo will be great for NY in the long run. Ppl will actually wanna come play for them once they see how much attention they can get in such a large market.

^this

They're going to get a lot of chances to get talent that other teams might not have a shot at. That said, there's not a lot of guarantee that all that attention and talent is going to translate into wins, let alone championships. Boston plays pretty good team basketball. It's gonna take something special to beat them.

02-28-2011, 02:36 AM

^this

They're going to get a lot of chances to get talent that other teams might not have a shot at. That said, there's not a lot of guarantee that all that attention and talent is going to translate into wins, let alone championships. Boston plays pretty good team basketball. It's gonna take something special to beat them.

Agree to a point. However, with Kendrick Perkins gone, and the instability associated with the C's frontline health, I see that being a set back imo.

A set back that can, (keyword: can) allow for up and coming teams like the Knicks to beat them. Plus, if the C's are to play the Knicks, it would be a game of pace. If the game was played in the Knicks pace (D'antoni system), this would allow the Knicks to be up in games, who knows what would happen in the late stages though. The Knicks now have two bonified go to players in the clutch: Melo and Chauncey.

NuGGeTs-FaN

02-28-2011, 02:42 AM

Technique

02-28-2011, 04:20 AM

:lol The Knicks suck. Any team who brings AC and Balkman off the bench is not going anywhere (just see the Nuggets)

The Knicks will go as far as CB takes them. Melo and Amare wouldn't know what playoff success was if it wasn't for their star point guards they played with

The Knicks would sure as hell sweep the Nuggets and their MVP, Kenyon Martin.

I'm pretty sure Amar'e proved everyone wrong about Steve Nash carrying him by putting up career numbers with a mediocre PG that he didn't even play a whole season with. If anything Amar'e is the one that makes PG's look good.

As for hating on Melo now that he dumped your ass. Quit being butthurt and get over the fact that the Nuggets are just another irrelevant team without leadership in the West now.

NuGGeTs-FaN

02-28-2011, 04:25 AM

The Knicks would sure as hell sweep the Nuggets and their MVP, Kenyon Martin.

I'm pretty sure Amar'e proved everyone wrong about Steve Nash carrying him by putting up career numbers with a mediocre PG that he didn't even play a whole season with. If anything Amar'e is the one that makes PG's look good.

As for hating on Melo now that he dumped your ass. Quit being butthurt and get over the fact that the Nuggets are just another irrelevant team without leadership in the West now.

:lol as if i care about what Melo decides to do. He won't ever win a championship, so how are the Nuggets any worse off without him?

CB was the leader of the Nuggets and should be the leader of the Knicks. Amare isn't a leader, the moron thinks he is black Jesus for crying out loud :lmao

Amare and Melo are nothing more than Ai/Melo was.

GUARANTEE those two won't win a title.

Technique

02-28-2011, 04:27 AM

The Knicks are the main attraction of the league. I'm not talking about fan wise, I'm talking about player wise.

Within the next 2 years Knicks will turn into an Eastern powerhouse. I guarantee you Melo and Amar'e will win more ships than Wade/Bron.

NuGGeTs-FaN

02-28-2011, 04:31 AM

NuGGeTs-FaN

02-28-2011, 04:34 AM

The Knicks are the main attraction of the league. I'm not talking about fan wise, I'm talking about player wise.
.

of course. What ego maniac wouldn't love the big markets?

No respect for guys who just wait around dogging it and then head for a big market.

ALVAREZ6

02-28-2011, 04:36 AM

They are still good players. Melo is an overrated player. However, Chauncey and Amare are stellar.

The rest of the Knick squad will have to grow some balls in order to put them over the top of other Eastern conference teams. Having Billups in that locker room will do just so, imo.

WTF makes Melo overrated and Amare stellar????

Speaking of overrated...you're definitely allowing Chauncey's bball IQ overrate the shit out of him comparatively, because while he is a very solid player (and I also like him over both Melo and Amare), he's nowhere near the total ability of either, especially Melo. Melo may be overrated by some people, but he's still easily one of the best scorers in the world.

Technique

02-28-2011, 04:41 AM

of course. What ego maniac wouldn't love the big markets?

No respect for guys who just wait around dogging it and then head for a big market.

I know right? What player would want to play for one of the greatest cities in the world with world class players in a chance to win an NBA championship.

That's just crazy talk.

rayjayjohnson

02-28-2011, 04:51 AM

Billups is the definition of clutch.

Darrin

02-28-2011, 04:57 AM

:lmao sure thing. I knew this would happen. Melo plays one good qtr on D and all the focus is on how good the Knicks are and how Melo can play D :lmao

THEY LOST TO THE FREAKIN' CAVS!! :lmao

The Knicks are not going anywhere signficant. Give it 12 months and Melo will be more interested in making movies, music and will forget about bball being his #1 priority.

How did they lose? All I know is I was watching one of my fantasy teams. Chauncey Billups had 9 points and was killing my team. Suddenly, in the last 4 minutes of that game, as I watched the stream, the Knicks pulled out of a 12-point deficit until they were within 1. I found out after the game that Billups had scored 20 points in that 4th quarter.

And if we are to eliminate teams that have lost to the Cavaliers, we have to eliminate the Boston Celtics and Los Angeles Lakers as contenders. They suck too.

Technique

02-28-2011, 05:02 AM

:lmao sure thing. I knew this would happen. Melo plays one good qtr on D and all the focus is on how good the Knicks are and how Melo can play D :lmao

Did you not watch your own team in 09 against the Lakers in the Western Finals? Melo can play D when it matters.

THEY LOST TO THE FREAKIN' CAVS!! :lmao

The Knicks are not going anywhere signficant. Give it 12 months and Melo will be more interested in making movies, music and will forget about bball being his #1 priority.

What? Uhm, I cant come up with random shit too. LeBron and Dwade will be too focused on clubbing with DJ Pauly D and the Situation and playing drunk. Also, Denver's stadium will collapse by an avalanche and the organization would have to move to London, being the first NBA team in Europe.

Hey, I'm just making as much sense as you are.

8FOR!3

02-28-2011, 07:20 AM

I think they're better than the Heat. The Heat aren't that good of a defensive team, their two best players just happen to be great defenders. The Knicks on the other hand have better defenders on the team, it just happens to be in spite of their two best players. Azubuike, Brewer, Billups, Fields, Turiaf, and Shawne Williams are all solid defenders.

GuerillaBlack

02-28-2011, 08:22 AM

of course. What ego maniac wouldn't love the big markets?

No respect for guys who just wait around dogging it and then head for a big market.

You guys had, what, seven years to make it happen? LMAO at the Melo hate from Nugget fan, those it's expected. It's not like the Nuggets are that bad now. They will just be stuck in mediocre land for a while (no lottery and a first round playoff lost for years to come).

JamStone

02-28-2011, 09:57 AM

I don't think they have the slightest chance of beating a healthy Boston Celtics team. But I think they can challenge any other team in the East. Not necessarily beat them, but be competitive, make things interesting, and have a chance to win.

I think what's really important for them are guys like Fields, Shawne Williams, and Toney Douglas to be consistent three point threats to give both Amare and Melo room to operate inside. They lost a lot of three point shooting in the trade. And Billups can't be the only guy to open up the halfcourt. Other guys have to make teams pay for doubling and/or collapsing on Amare and Melo.

To me, Boston is the only team that can really neutralize each of the Knicks three best players without heavy double teaming. Plus their overall team defense is still very good. Chicago would be a tough match-up as well because they have defensive pieces to counter the Knicks and a defensive framework to play them well. But I think the Knicks would still have a chance against the Bulls if they play great. And I do think the Knicks have exploitable match-ups against both the Heat and Orlando. Not that they would definitely win a series against either, but I think they would have a chance.

Realistically, they aren't going very far in the playoffs this season. If they're lucky they end up playing Orlando in the first round because I think they match up pretty well against them. But getting further than a second round appearance seems unlikely. They would need exceptional three point shooting to balance Amare's and Melo's inside scoring and have to play over their heads defensively like they did for stretches last night. But that would be asking a lot. Going forward, they need a couple more complimentary pieces and time to put everything together. I don't think they have enough this year.

Kyle Orton

02-28-2011, 09:59 AM

Did you not watch your own team in 09 against the Lakers in the Western Finals? Melo can play D when it matters.

What? Uhm, I cant come up with random shit too. LeBron and Dwade will be too focused on clubbing with DJ Pauly D and the Situation and playing drunk. Also, Denver's stadium will collapse by an avalanche and the organization would have to move to London, being the first NBA team in Europe.

Hey, I'm just making as much sense as you are.

NuGGets-FaN likes to just make up random shit because he's butthurt about Melo leaving his shitty team (even though he'll repeat that his team his better now every time he goes on an anti-Melo rant). He also says that within a year Amare's knee is gonna be blown out as if he has insider info on it or something.

Kyle Orton

02-28-2011, 10:06 AM

People are really overrating Billups because of one game where he made some shots down the stretch but still played mediocre. He'll choke again in the playoffs this year. Pistons fans on this site have always told us that "Big Shot" nickname is a total joke and none of us ever listened to them even after getting outplayed by Derek fucking Fisher in the 2009 WCF.

IMO, the Knicks need a better center and a better 3rd wheel than Billups. After yesterday, maybe D'antoni is willing to become a little more defense oriented, only time will tell. With those two things, they're a real contender. They're a lot closer than people give them credit for. Having a legit 1A and 1B to build around is 95% of the battle, the rest of the roster is easy.

JamStone

02-28-2011, 10:26 AM

Billups is way overrated both defensively and as a clutch player. It's not to say he's horrible in either regard because he's better defensively than a lot of PGs merely by his size and strength and he is a clutch player. But it's egregiously overstated how good he is. He's clutch in that he's not afraid of taking a big shot. And he's good enough that he'll make his share. But he also has a history of getting lit up by guys like an old Jason Williams and Boobie Gibson.

I do like him on the Knicks because now he really won't be double teamed playing alongside both Amare and Melo and he should get a lot of open looks. Also, I think Chauncey's temperment is good for the Knicks. If there's one really good thing about Chauncey, it's that when the game starts getting away from his team, he knows when to slow things down, back up the ball, reset the offense, and get a good scoring opportunity. He is very good at tempo control. Defensively lol last night might be the first and only time you'll ever see Chauncey make two defensive plays in crunch time.

Kyle Orton

02-28-2011, 10:32 AM

Tbh tho, the last thing Amare needs on his team is another excuse maker.

ElNono

02-28-2011, 10:38 AM

Chauncey is probably overrated, but he's the only guy with some degree of basketball IQ on that team. Both Amare and Melo are truly stat whores and they're just happy to get theirs.

Kyle Orton

02-28-2011, 10:39 AM

God Spurfan is so fuckin retarded. Amare and Melo = classless stat whores :cry:cry:cry. Do you idiots have anything to offer about the Knicks outside of that?

Nick Manning

02-28-2011, 10:40 AM

Being that this was only their 3rd game together, I was very encouraged by what I saw last night. Melo played great on both ends despite having a bum shooting elbow, and Amare made a concerted effort on the defensive end. How about Landry Fields and the job he did on LBJ as well?

This was only one game so I'm gonna wait and see what develops, but it's encouraging to see them play defense when it mattered. At least it shows they have the ability to do it.

Venti Quattro

02-28-2011, 10:42 AM

God Spurfan is so fuckin retarded. Amare and Melo = classless stat whores :cry:cry:cry. Do you idiots have anything to offer about the Knicks outside of that?

The only way they become classy is when they get traded to the Spurs :cry :cry :cry

Nick Manning

02-28-2011, 10:46 AM

I know right? What player would want to play for one of the greatest cities in the world with world class players in a chance to win an NBA championship.

That's just crazy talk.

Come on bro, we all know that the superstars wanna waste away in the rockies instead

ElNono

02-28-2011, 10:47 AM

God Spurfan is so fuckin retarded. Amare and Melo = classless stat whores :cry:cry:cry. Do you idiots have anything to offer about the Knicks outside of that?

Do you have anything else to offer than :cry :cry :cry Sarver shouldn't have let Amare go :cry:cry:cry, DoK?

JamStone

02-28-2011, 10:47 AM

I thought Bill Walker did a pretty good job defensively as well. The Knicks have limited options. Don't know if Corey Brewer can help. I think D'Antoni would rather trust a guy who won't really disrupt his offense even if he's a lesser defender, so I don't know if Brewer will get some opportunities at some point this season. But both Walker and Anthony Carter played well defensively when they were in the game.

It's really a simplistic notion, but it seemed like yesterday the Knicks defense got better merely by just better effort. It goes to show you what difference effort, energy, and just fighting on defense can do. I know the Heat weren't exactly playing their best basketball, but it was a little impressive and somewhat surprising watching a D'Antoni defense fight like they did in the second half.

Kyle Orton

02-28-2011, 10:47 AM

The only way they become classy is when they get traded to the Spurs :cry :cry :cry

Amare is a classless stat whore who was too classless to let the classy Spurs win at least one playoff game last year. Great fuckin classless skunkage :cry

Kyle Orton

02-28-2011, 10:49 AM

Do you have anything else to offer than :cry :cry :cry Sarver shouldn't have let Amare go :cry:cry:cry, DoK?

Well seeing that the opinion Sarver should have kept Amare is right it is actually something to offer. Acting like Amare and Melo are two scrubs who don't give a shit about winning is a classic dipshitted Spurfan thing to say. Do the Nazis not like black people very much?

Technique

02-28-2011, 10:52 AM

Chauncey is probably overrated, but he's the only guy with some degree of basketball IQ on that team. Both Amare and Melo are truly stat whores and they're just happy to get theirs.

What? Happy to get theirs? Melo had his stats and money in Denver, he had "his" there too by your standard. The fact is, both Amare and Melo are two of the most prolific scorers in the league, combined together it's a defensive nightmare when anyone of them can blow up. There is not another pf or center I would take over Amare offensively. Honestly.

ElNono

02-28-2011, 10:54 AM

Well seeing that the opinion Sarver should have kept Amare is right it is actually something to offer. Acting like Amare and Melo are two scrubs who don't give a shit about winning is a classic dipshitted Spurfan thing to say. Do the Nazis not like black people very much?

You would have a point if they ever won anything... I don't dispute they're talented players, but there's no question they have zero basketball IQ.
But do tell us, is the the black jew angle that bothers you? :cry :cry

Kyle Orton

02-28-2011, 10:54 AM

You would have a point if they ever won anything... I don't dispute they're talented players, but there's no question they have zero basketball IQ.
But do tell us, is the the black jew angle that bothers you? :cry :cry

How did 0 bball IQ Amare skunk the classy Spurs last year then?

Venti Quattro

02-28-2011, 10:55 AM

How did 0 bball IQ Amare skunk the classy Spurs last year then?

Dragic :cry Nash :cry Dudley :cry Frye couldn't miss :cry Richardson was like Jordan :cry

ElNono

02-28-2011, 10:56 AM

What? Happy to get theirs? Melo had his stats and money in Denver, he had "his" there too by your standard. The fact is, both Amare and Melo are two of the most prolific scorers in the league, combined together it's a defensive nightmare when anyone of them can blow up. There is not another pf or center I would take over Amare offensively. Honestly.

His top performance in Denver was a quick exit in the WCF... and that's after Billups came around.. otherwise he was a perennial 1st round exit.

Kyle Orton

02-28-2011, 10:56 AM

They lost the conference finals largely because of how shitty Billups played.

ElNono

02-28-2011, 10:57 AM

How did 0 bball IQ Amare skunk the classy Spurs last year then?

Dragic :cry Nash :cry Dudley :cry Frye couldn't miss :cry Richardson was like Jordan :cry

Lakerfan knows... especially after bukkaking all over Amare in the next round...

ElNono

02-28-2011, 10:58 AM

They lost the conference finals largely because of how shitty Billups played.

Because Lakers know who was the leader of that team and who they needed to shut down. They actually lasted longer than they should've thanks to JR smith shooting gangsta 3's.

Kyle Orton

02-28-2011, 10:58 AM

lol the "Frye couldn't miss :cry" argument. The classy ultra high bball IQ Spurs kept leaving Frye open.

Kyle Orton

02-28-2011, 10:59 AM

Because Lakers know who was the leader of that team and who they needed to shut down.

That's why they had Derek Fisher guarding him?

ElNono

02-28-2011, 11:00 AM

lol the "Frye couldn't miss :cry" argument. The classy ultra high bball IQ Spurs kept leaving Frye open.

Spurs weren't that good defensively last year (debatable this year), and the Suns had better offense. Amare's basketball IQ or lack thereof has nothing to do with that though.

Kyle Orton

02-28-2011, 11:02 AM

Spurs weren't that good defensively last year (debatable this year)

With their ultra-high bball IQ, how could they not be great on defense?

ElNono

02-28-2011, 11:03 AM

That's why they had Derek Fisher guarding him?

Billups is not the quickest guy and Fish was a good defender when he could move his feet. We're talking 2 seasons ago.

ElNono

02-28-2011, 11:05 AM

With their ultra-high bball IQ, how could they not be great on defense?

We didn't have the personnel + we had a couple of new guys in the system.
I'm surprised Amare and his ultra-high bball IQ couldn't get you past the Lakeshow though.

JamStone

02-28-2011, 11:08 AM

Fisher was already a pylon 2 years ago.

Nick Manning

02-28-2011, 11:12 AM

ElNono you are making no sense in this thread.

Calling Stat and Melo stat whores because they aren't great defensive players is just plain ignorant. Both Melo and Stat led their respective teams to the WCF the last 2 years and they lost to a fucking dynasty team...you can't really rag on them for not beating the Lakers

Technique

02-28-2011, 11:13 AM

Honestly just stop. Stick to Kobe hating your material on Melo hating is rather subpar.

Hooks

02-28-2011, 11:14 AM

The Knicks aren't very good, they won't make it past the 1st round.

ElNono

02-28-2011, 11:26 AM

Calling Stat and Melo stat whores because they aren't great defensive players is just plain ignorant.

Except that I didn't say that. Try again.

ElNono

02-28-2011, 11:31 AM

Time will tell what happens. Right now they're basically the Suns from 3/4 seasons ago sitting in the East. Two superstars (Amare-Nash then, Amare-Melo now) and same coach.
Good role players around (Marion then, Billups now).

Technique

02-28-2011, 12:31 PM

ElNono

02-28-2011, 12:35 PM

Except that roster was at the Sun's peak.
The Knicks are just getting started.

I don't know what the future CBA will look like, but under the current one, I don't think they can add any more over-the-top pieces. Although Miami did pull it off.

Technique

02-28-2011, 12:52 PM

Chris Paul or Deron Williams.

Decisions decisions.

Kyle Orton

02-28-2011, 01:39 PM

ElNono

02-28-2011, 01:44 PM

The Suns never had a wing who could score in the halfcourt and close games the way Melo can.

I agree with that.
That said, Nash was also offensively beasting around that era, which is when he won the MVPs. I didn't think that Suns team had a problem scoring. They just couldn't make stops when they needed them.

thispego

02-28-2011, 01:50 PM

The lone two credible replies to my post fail to take into account the play of Billups.

I will bump this thread when, and if the Knicks go far.

It'll be because of Billups.

lol, you think you're the only one who knows about billups? :lol

Kyle Orton

02-28-2011, 02:37 PM

I agree with that.
That said, Nash was also offensively beasting around that era, which is when he won the MVPs. I didn't think that Suns team had a problem scoring. They just couldn't make stops when they needed them.
That Suns team did have a problem scoring late in games. Getting stops was a bigger problem, but the 2005-2007 Suns had a major problem with its 4th quarter offense.

02-28-2011, 02:57 PM

I don't know what the future CBA will look like, but under the current one, I don't think they can add any more over-the-top pieces. Although Miami did pull it off.

Although I vastly overrate Melo, I think you take it to far here. I can sense you have an argument based on the notion that Melo is a complete waste of talent, even if you don't directly state it.

Melo can't be relied to take a team to the top, but he can be a heck of a compliment to a larger group of stars. With that said, the Suns never had a player the caliber of Melo. And Steve Nash isn't no Chauncey Billups. Billups is a better defender and is equally as clutch if not slightly less compared to Nash. Amare looks rejuvenated out there. And the play of the supporting cast gives a vibe that even if their is the slightest bit of chemistry, the Knicks can compete with the likes of a superpower team. If they are to develop really good chemistry, there is no telling how good a team they can be.

My two cents once again.

ElNono

02-28-2011, 03:14 PM

Although I vastly overrate Melo, I think you take it to far here. I can sense you have an argument based on the notion that Melo is a complete waste of talent, even if you don't directly state it.

Not at all. I acknowledge Melo is very talented and so is Amare. That's why I call them superstars. They're athletic, young, and can score at will. They don't strike me as a smart duo making in-game decisions (like Billups), but that doesn't mean they're all bad.

Melo can't be relied to take a team to the top, but he can be a heck of a compliment to a larger group of stars. With that said, the Suns never had a player the caliber of Melo. And Steve Nash isn't no Chauncey Billups. Billups is a better defender and is equally as clutch if not slightly less compared to Nash. Amare looks rejuvenated out there. And the play of the supporting cast gives a vibe that even if their is the slightest bit of chemistry, the Knicks can compete with the likes of a superpower team. If they are to develop really good chemistry, there is no telling how good a team they can be.

The '05/'06 Nash was back 2 back league MVP, and even if some people argue wether he should have gotten back 2 back, there's no doubt he deserved at least one of them. Billups is a guy I respect a lot, and should get his due, but he's never been superstar-caliber like that.

As I stated earlier in this thread, this Knicks team will go as far as Billups will take them. He will be the coach on the floor and any Denverfan around here will tell you how well he fits that role.

Kyle Orton

02-28-2011, 03:19 PM

Outside of his two years w/ Larry Brown as coach, Billups has done absolutely nothing to earn this "good decision maker" label he has. Larry Brown was a coach who micro-managed the offense and coaches his PGs to the point where they do exactly what he wants on every possession. Once Flip Saunders took over as coach and Billups had freedom to run the offense and make decisions on his own, he couldn't get his team any further than Melo or Amare could.

ElNono

02-28-2011, 03:29 PM

DoK, I don't disagree that Larry Brown made Billups the player he is nowadays (he was an underachiever up to that point). But Billups did help Flip's Pistons to reach the ECF multiple times, and when he was traded to Denver, he helped that team reach the WCF for the first time in the Melo tenure over there. And the constant is Chauncey.

I don't think he alone is enough to take you over the top (Larry Brown's defensive discipline is what did it for Detroit), but he definitely brings a plus.

Kyle Orton

02-28-2011, 03:32 PM

ginobili's bald spot

02-28-2011, 03:33 PM

Billups is not the quickest guy and Fish was a good defender when he could move his feet. We're talking 2 seasons ago.

LOL @ Fisher being a good defender two years ago. Just LOL

Kyle Orton

02-28-2011, 03:35 PM

I was hoping a Lakers fan would catch that.

ElNono

02-28-2011, 03:49 PM

They reached the conference finals, just like Amare and Melo did. That's my point. If you wanna call Melo and Amare bad decision makers fine, but as far as I'm concerned post-2005 Billups has decision making issues. I've seen countless retarded shots from him during the 4th quarter of playoff games with 18 seconds left on the shot clock.

I think the ECF is their ceiling with Billups, barring injuries to Boston or Miami.
Without Billups I don't see them getting out of the first/second round, tbh.

ElNono

02-28-2011, 03:54 PM

LOL @ Fisher being a good defender two years ago. Just LOL

Good enough to be league leader in offensive fouls committed against back then... you don't have to believe me, go look it up (Varejao was #2).

Again, we're talking about defending Billups two seasons ago, not quick point guards.

picc84

02-28-2011, 04:33 PM

Good, but until they commit to defending and rebounding for more than a few quarters of a reg season game they wont be winning anything. And good luck with that having Pringles on the sideline.

rayjayjohnson

02-28-2011, 04:37 PM

His top performance in Denver was a quick exit in the WCF... and that's after Billups came around.. otherwise he was a perennial 1st round exit.

so all those years in a row he was in the conference finals was just, what?

02-28-2011, 04:37 PM

I think the ECF is their ceiling with Billups, barring injuries to Boston or Miami.
Without Billups I don't see them getting out of the first/second round, tbh.

This is where I agree with you to a point. If melo and amare become motivated to win a championship, and play consistent defense and not make mental lapses individually, there is no telling hor far this team can go. If the cards play out with melo and amare proving to be a great tandem, this team should at least get to the ECF. The play of chauncey though is what will be the x-factor as to how far this team will go.

02-28-2011, 04:40 PM

so all those years in a row he was in the conference finals was just, what?

Any poster who underlooks the effect chauncey billups has on a team is purely delusional. The guy just knows how to win and manage a team. The combination of having melo and amare with this type of leadership should at least give some wonder as to how legit these knicks are.