Long Live the American Dream - Why India and China have nothing on America

[Marcus Bryant]

http://reason.com/archives/2011/03/01/long-live-the-american-dream

[Marcus Bryant]

Despite all the recent hoopla about China becoming the world’s second biggest economy and India hoping to follow suit, the reality is that the per capita GDP—even measured by purchasing power parity—in both is pathetic. America’s is about $47,000, China’s $7,500, and India’s $3,290.

Worse, both still harbor medieval levels of poverty with 300 million people in each living on less than $1.25 a day. India’s IT boom gets big press, but it—along with all the tertiary industries it has spawned—employs 2.3 million people, or 0.2 percent of the population.

Neither country is a font of opportunity comparable to America.

[Marcus Bryant]

India’s gap with America extends not just to intangible capital but tangible capital as well. Basic facilities in India—roads, water, sewage—remain primitive. For example, a 2010 McKinsey Global Institute report found that India treats 30 percent of raw sewage, whereas the international norm is 100 percent. India provides 105 liters of water per person per day, the minimum standard is 150 liters. It needs to spend twice the slated expenditures over the next 10 years to deliver basic services.

China, meanwhile, has a major civil society problem. America has made about $100 trillion in Social Security and Medicare promises to seniors that it can’t fund. But American seniors face nothing like the kind of destitution that the Chinese do. China’s one-child policy has decimated the natural safety net that old people rely on in traditional societies. And China offers no public safety net to the vast majority of village-born. Worse, many Chinese have invested their nest eggs is various asset bubbles that will wipe out their only means of subsistence if they burst, making the Great Depression look like a beach party.

[Nbadan]

Well.....Social security is fully funded....in fact there is still a trillion+ dollar yearly surplus in SS...now you might say well, yeah, but those obligations are funded by debt...now that's true but the lion's share of that debt is to the SS trust fund itself and other governmental agencies...

[Nbadan]

....it's good to finally seeing you waking up to realty though....despite its huge debt.....the U.S. is still the safest place to park your money...

[Winehole23]

Plain expressions of optimism used to be commonplace in politics; now optimism rides in the back seat, while fear and rage fight over the wheel.

[boutons_deux]

When the rising economic tide lifts only the boats of the wealthy, there's no reason for the bottom 4 quintiles to be positive. (top quintile starts at $106K income)

When corporate execs now gross more in one day than the avg salaryman makes in a year, there's no reason to be optimistic.

When GDP, the stockmarket, the financial sector, corporate profits are all extremely healthy, but there are 20M+ un-, mal-employed, there's no reason to be optimistic.

When household income has been stagnant for 30 years while the wealth inequality explodes, there's no reason to be optimistic.

When see their kids struggling to even match the parents' economic level, never mind pass it, there's no reason to be optimistic.

When upward economic mobility continues to decrease, there's no reason to be optimistic.

When access to tax-payer funded PUBLIC university is greatly reduced, there's no reason to be optimistic.

When millions of people are laid off with their jobs not coming back, or taking new jobs at 10s of % less, there's no reason to be optimistic.

The Banksters' Great Depression, caused by the VRWC's bubble (thanks to Great Devils Greenspan, Bernanke), marks a tipping point in America's ascent to towards descent, as the UCA continues to ascend, detached from Real America. This is culmination of 30+ years of Repug/conservative predation to turn America back to the totally deregulated 1920s. The VRWC has won, resistance is futile.

rah rah cheerleading for UCA like the reason.com article only applies to the top quintile. the subtext: "No matter how badly you Human-Americans are getting fucked by the VRWC, you're still a lot better off than Indians and Chinese, so STFU and get out of the way."

[Winehole23]

On cue. Thanks, boutons.

[boutons_deux]

Thanks, bitch

[The_Worlds_finest]

bouton your rant is about the most ignorant bias shit I have ever read. Fuck off

[CosmicCowboy]

Well.....Social security is fully funded....in fact there is still a trillion+ dollar yearly surplus in SS...now you might say well, yeah, but those obligations are funded by debt...now that's true but the lion's share of that debt is to the SS trust fund itself and other governmental agencies...

:lmao

Every time you post that shit I just shake my head in amazement.

The bottom line is that all those dollars in that "surplus" have already been spent on other things and replaced with IOU's from the US Government. When it comes time to spend that "surplus" on benefits the US is going to have to go out into the market and borrow REAL dollars from REAL investors to fund those obligations.

[boutons_deux]

Refute every one of points, naive bitches.

Then, GFY

[The_Worlds_finest]

Refute every one of points, naive bitches.

Then, GFY

Have you ever stepped out of America? Even our what we consider poor have it better then 90% of the world.

[boutons_deux]

"Have you ever stepped out of America?"

I lived in Europe for 30 years, the socialist/communist Old Europe, bitch.

The VRWC is trying to convince everybody that when they fuck you over, and over, and over, and over, just be grateful, Human-Americans still have it better than Chinese and Indian dirt scratchers and peasants.

That's the real reason, eg Heritage stink tank, says there is no poverty in USA when even the poor have car, a cellphone, cable TV, a refrigerator. Be grateful, the VRWC leaves you all some crumbs after they stolen the loaf.

[TeyshaBlue]

Refute every one of points, naive bitches.

Then, GFY

The sauce...it is strong with this one.

[admiralsnackbar]

Prior to the World Wars, the US was as humble in Europe's eyes as China is in the OP's. If they continue to be the seat of manufacturing, do you really think the US's bragging rights will be anything more than vestigial nationalism in 20 years? Will we really be able to, say, claim superiority in infrastructure over India when we continue to have no way to pay for it?

[admiralsnackbar]

Have you ever stepped out of America? Even our what we consider poor have it better then 90% of the world.
Agreed. But that doesn't mean we will therefore never experience what they do. "I remember they had a swimming pool..."

vKITpVovTAE

*****
Edit: did you know MX was not that far behind the US even as recently as the mid-60 -early-70's? They used to call it "The Mexican Miracle." What broke it down was not "Mexican corruption," but garden-variety corruption -- not unlike that we see in the US business and legislative world daily.

[boutons_deux]

India and China are profoundly corrupt. UCA is catching up on that measure, but the corrupt ion is much more subtle.

"we continue to have no way to pay for it?"

Because the VRWC keeps suckering the least common denominator to vote for cutting taxes, esp on the super-wealthy and corps, and wasting $Ts in bullshit wars that enrich the VRWC, MIC division.

Without the tax cuts and the wars and the lost revenue from the Banksters' Great Depression, the Federal budget is nearly in balance.

[admiralsnackbar]

Plain expressions of optimism used to be commonplace in politics; now optimism rides in the back seat, while fear and rage fight over the wheel.

Fear and rage offer their own sorts of optimism, unfortunately they have more in common with paranoiac post-Weimar utopianism than old-fashioned American egalitarianism.

**********

Edit: too Godwin? :lol

[admiralsnackbar]

India and China are profoundly corrupt. UCA is catching up on that measure, but the corrupt ion is much more subtle.

"we continue to have no way to pay for it?"

Because the VRWC keeps suckering the least common denominator to vote for cutting taxes, esp on the super-wealthy and corps, and wasting $Ts in bullshit wars that enrich the VWRC, MIC division.

Without the tax cuts and the wars and the lost revenue from the Banksters' Great Depression, the Federal budget is nearly in balance. The wars and the sardonic "financial instruments" are short-term inconveniences compared to the depredations of globalism on our economy.

[boutons_deux]

"globalism"

... was pushed hard and long by US corps, knowing full well they could export jobs and manufacturing to low-cost, backward countries, then import the stuff back to UCA without tariffs. Nothing happens accidentally. It's all planned, with the VRWC buying the politicians and capturing the regulatory agencies to make it all happen.

[admiralsnackbar]

"globalism"

... was pushed hard and long by US corps, knowing full well they could export jobs and manufacturing to low-cost, backward countries, then import the stuff back to UCA without tariffs. Nothing happens accidentally. It's all planned, with the VRWC buying the politicians capturing the regulatory agencies to make it all happen.
Agreed, ironically.

The funny thing is all the money corporations saved their stockholders by farming labor out elsewhere will be useless to their children (unless they are board members' and inheriting royal sums) when you factor in the downward-spiraling stagflation that follows massive national unemployment. Hope those twenty years of growing richer by subverting the manufacturing sector is worth having millions of value-less dollars.

[Nbadan]

We still make a lot here.....many manufacturing jobs in the U.S. are highly automated now though so manufacturing jobs don't employ the number of people they did in the past....but the people they do pay get paid decent wages with (mostly) decent benefits....

[Winehole23]

Edit: too Godwin? :lolIt probably went over a few heads.

[Nbadan]

:lmao

Every time you post that shit I just shake my head in amazement.

The bottom line is that all those dollars in that "surplus" have already been spent on other things and replaced with IOU's from the US Government. When it comes time to spend that "surplus" on benefits the US is going to have to go out into the market and borrow REAL dollars from REAL investors to fund those obligations.

We've talked about monetizing the debt before.....this is essentially what the U.S. is doing by printing more dollars...those dollars have a multiplier effect on the economy...so a 50-100 trillion dollar economy grows to a 100-250 trillion dollar economy....then 14 trillion dollars in debt will be a minor nuisance....if your collecting 4-5 trillion dollars annually in taxes...at least that is the theory...

[CosmicCowboy]

We've talked about monetizing the debt before.....this is essentially what the U.S. is doing by printing more dollars...those dollars have a multiplier effect on the economy...so a 50-100 trillion dollar economy grows to a 100-250 trillion dollar economy....then 14 trillion dollars in debt will be a minor nuisance....if your collecting 4-5 trillion dollars annually in taxes...at least that is the theory...

Oh please...

The only reason that the economy doubles (in dollars) is because the dollars are worth half as much. Those benefits Social Security and Medicare will owe will double as well...

I bought my first house in 1978 when I was 23. It was a brand new brick veneer house, 2800 sq feet 4 bedroom house on a big fenced lot.

I just looked at a new crew cab F250 last week that cost more than that house.

THATS your damn multiplier.We aren't talking about the same dollar purchasing power.

[admiralsnackbar]

We still make a lot here.....many manufacturing jobs in the U.S. are highly automated now though so manufacturing jobs don't employ the number of people they did in the past....but the people they do pay get paid decent wages with (mostly) decent benefits....
Right.

When's the last time you hung out in Detroit?

[CosmicCowboy]

Right.

When's the last time you hung out in Detroit?

Uhhh...Detroit is the dead model. Why do you thing Cat just built their big new engine plant in Seguin, Texas?

[boutons_deux]

Inflation.

A "fun" site (if you can figure out how to use it): http://www.westegg.com/inflation/

[admiralsnackbar]

Uhhh...Detroit is the dead model. Why do you thing Cat just built their big new engine plant in Seguin, Texas?

Honestly? Low taxes and wetbacks.

And Detroit is only the dead model because Detroit execs were too stupid to stick with the formula that built their town: good products at fair prices. You really think Toyota has a more daring or new-fangled business plan than Hank Ford?

[boutons_deux]

Henry Ford had the socialistic idea that his employees would buy Ford cars only if he paid really good wages. In spite of that, Ford seemed to make a pretty good capitalistic fortune anyway.

Seems like paying good wages raised everybody's boat, including Ford's. No trickle down lies from Ford.

[admiralsnackbar]

Henry Ford had the socialistic idea that his employees would buy Ford cars only if he paid really good wages. In spite of that, Ford seemed to make a pretty good capitalistic fortune anyway.

Seems like paying good wages raised everybody's boat, including Ford's. No trickle down lies from Ford.

The wages weren't good as much as the cars were cheap. Precisely why unionization (which is much more socialistic than Ford ever dreamed of being) was required in the first place.

Bear in mind that Ford was a virulent racist, so having social concern for the blacks that worked his factories seems... charitable.

[CosmicCowboy]

Honestly? Low taxes and wetbacks.

And Detroit is only the dead model because Detroit execs were too stupid to stick with the formula that built their town: good products at fair prices. You really think Toyota has a more daring or new-fangled business plan than Hank Ford?

Oh please...wetbacks? I think not...

And Toyota kicked Detroit's ass because they reinvested like 10% of gross revenue in R&D.

[boutons_deux]

"wages weren't good"

I've read more than one account that said he famously paid better than any mfging job around.

[admiralsnackbar]

Oh please...wetbacks? I think not...

And Toyota kicked Detroit's ass because they reinvested like 10% of gross revenue in R&D.

Making an engine more efficient than a 78 Skylark or a vehicle more durable than the 84 Celebrity doesn't require 10% of gross revenue (4-cylinders have been around longer than Cadillacs).

Moreover, being so short-sighted as to lose market share worth well beyond 10% of gross revenue makes an argument for either the colossal ineptitude of Detroit execs, or their choice to do what was most immediately profitable for themselves and their stockholders with no thought or obligation to the growth and well-being of their brands.

How long did we hear the statement that "Americans want powerful cars," while we saw larger and larger numbers of drivers in cheap, indestructible foreign makes during the leaner Carter years? We're still hearing that horseshit!

Anyway, this is all beside your point, I think. You must have some insight as to why CAT is setting up shop in Seguin... expand on that, then.

[johnsmith]

Boutons rage is funny in this thread. Predictable, but funny.

[boutons_deux]

bitch johnsmith's stalking of boutons is predictable, but funny, and always content free.

[johnsmith]

bitch johnsmith's stalking of boutons is predictable, but funny, and always content free.

:lmao You and Dan should get together and start a club for people suffering from dillusion.

You guys are fucking hilarious.
:toast

[boutons_deux]

bitch johnsmith's stalking of boutons is predictable, but funny, and always content free.

[TeyshaBlue]

bouton's third person references are predictable, but funny, and always content fee.

[johnsmith]

bitch johnsmith's stalking of boutons is predictable, but funny, and always content free.

VRWC UCA Unfuckable

[boutons_deux]

that's copyright enfringement, do you have any original material, unfuckable bitch?

[johnsmith]

that's copyright enfringement, do you have any original material, unfuckable bitch?

vrwc!!!!!!

[hater]

Comparing GDPs to China and India. How low has the USA gotten :(

[DarkReign]

Oh please...wetbacks? I think not...

And Toyota kicked Detroit's ass because they reinvested like 10% of gross revenue in R&D.

Simple, really.

1. Texas is a right-to-work state, the entire Rust Belt is not.

2. Southern states pay for companies to open shop there. Smart really.

Combine #1 with #2 and you have an overwhelming reason to open shop in the South. The only downer in the South is the workforce and their lack of basic manufacturing principles...

Which is why the auto companies import the talent from up North where they are needed to implement and train the local workforce.

My personal experience? Its working out great for the auto companies and Southern residents. But the ability to rapidly design, build and install new lines and equipment has been severely impeded. Thats why a lot of new lines are installed in Canada. Theyre Union, yes, but the companies dont pay for heath insurance. The workforce is up to speed with the advances and techniques required to compete and the lowliest line worker needs no instruction about how to perform and troubleshoot their area of expertise.

[boutons_deux]

Is India's GDP Growth for Real?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/devinder-sharma/is-indias-gdp-growth-for-_b_832123.html?view=print

[moisaenz]

Although China and India have more people.. We have more people if we count all of them by body mass.....