Spurs' HOF Probabilities?

[stepmonkey]

I came across this site at Basketball-Reference.com that rates the probability of active players making the HOF.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/hof_prob_active.html

Tim #3
Tony #17 (ahead of Steve Nash)
Manu #26

[Gagnrath]

I don't like the guys model at all he explicitly states that the voters tend to ignore aba accomplishments which is kind of true but they definitely don't ignore international and college accomplishments which makes Manu from 26 to about 10 and from a just 13% chance to around a 60% chance. Now I'm not saying the make-up of the voters won't change in the 8 to 10 years before manu retires and becomes eligible but having no college and international consideration on there makes it a flawed site.

[will_spurs]

Well, it's not flawed, actually - the guy readily admits his prediction algorithm is perfect, he's just saying that by taking into account only a few measurable inputs he managed to predict who was in or not to a high degree (~95%).

The limitations are indeed that it focuses on a player's NBA career, so it will work better for players who had a "standard" career. Guys like Ginobili are statistical abberations in terms of development. So Manu will be one of the oddities (because I'm pretty sure that his overall achivements which include Europe and Argantina will get him in).

One huge fail in the model in my opinion is that it doesn't take into account MVP trophies. All the former NBa MVPs are in the HoF, and I expect this trend to continue for a long time. It's certainly applicable to all the MVPs who aren't yet eligible.

[dbreiden83080]

I came across this site at Basketball-Reference.com that rates the probability of active players making the HOF.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/hof_prob_active.html

Tim #3
Tony #17 (ahead of Steve Nash)
Manu #26

Tony is not ahead of Nash.. :lol

Stupid list..

[dbreiden83080]

I was debating this a week or so ago about Manu being in the HOF and i stand by what i say about that's gonna be tough. Reggie Miller just got passed over on the first ballot. He'll get in but Reggie Miller is not first ballot to these clowns..

WOW!!!

[DirkISaCocLuvinPuSSy]

I was debating this a week or so ago about Manu being in the HOF and i stand by what i say about that's gonna be tough. Reggie Miller just got passed over on the first ballot. He'll get in but Reggie Miller is not first ballot to these clowns..

WOW!!!

yea couldn't believe Reggie didn't make it in, at least Rob got in LoL @ HOF voters probably think basketball should still be played without dribbling.

[ALVAREZ6]

So the list has Tony at 56% and Manu at 13% probability of HOF.




CRRRRRROOOOFFFFFLLLLLL

[Cry Havoc]

Manu is a 99% lock for the HOF. I'd say 90%+ first ballot.

[Reggie Williams]

James Anderson
DeJuan Blair
Matt Bonner
Tim Duncan
Manu Ginobili
George Hill
Othyus Jeffers
Richard Jefferson
Antonio McDyess
Gary Neal
Steve Novak
Tony Parker
Chris Quinn
Tiago Splitter


And OT:

How the FUCK is Splitter making 3 mil per year?

[cube1980]

At first glance, this dude should check his model when he got this results. Kobe ahead of Timmy and Manu 13%?? A closer look at his formula reveals that he has no ideas what hes doing. Pretty lame list. He just needs some common sense.

[hitmanyr2k]

I was debating this a week or so ago about Manu being in the HOF and i stand by what i say about that's gonna be tough. Reggie Miller just got passed over on the first ballot. He'll get in but Reggie Miller is not first ballot to these clowns..

WOW!!!

I'm not sure why anyone is shocked. When I heard Reggie was on the ballot I knew he wasn't going to make it in and posted about it in the NBA forum and he doesn't deserve to make it in first ballot (or second, third, fourth, or fifth for that matter). Other than shoot the ball what else did he do? Was he a playmaker? No. Play defense? No. Rebound? No. I could see if he was some kind of elite scorer but he wasn't that either. He was basically a 20 point scorer that contributed nothing else.

Then we go to individual accolades. No first team All-NBA selections. No second team selections. A few third team selections. He was never an MVP candidate. He never established himself as the best of the best in his era. Why should he be HOF? Having a few memorable playoff series against the Knicks (in which the Pacers didn't win anyway) shouldn't be enough for first ballot.


As far as Tim Duncan, Ginobili and Parker go.....Duncan was a lock back in 2002. Ginobili will get in because of his overall resume and winning at every level (maybe not first ballot). Parker is the odd man out unless he adds a few more titles. His international resume is hardly anything to write home about and he hasn't established himself as being among the elite PG consistently enough to be HOF worthy.

[dbreiden83080]

Manu is a 99% lock for the HOF. I'd say 90%+ first ballot.

How is that gonna happen when Reggie missed the first ballot. Reggie has a olympic gold medal to boot and was a way better player than Manu has ever been.. Seriously..

[dbreiden83080]

I'm not sure why anyone is shocked. When I heard Reggie was on the ballot I knew he wasn't going to make it in and posted about it in the NBA forum and he doesn't deserve to make it in first ballot (or second, third, fourth, or fifth for that matter). Other than shoot the ball what else did he do? Was he a playmaker? No. Play defense? No. Rebound? No. I could see if he was some kind of elite scorer but he wasn't that either. He was basically a 20 point scorer that contributed nothing else.

Then we go to individual accolades. No first team All-NBA selections. No second team selections. A few third team selections. He was never an MVP candidate. He never established himself as the best of the best in his era. Why should he be HOF? Having a few memorable playoff series against the Knicks (in which the Pacers didn't win anyway) shouldn't be enough for first ballot.


As far as Tim Duncan, Ginobili and Parker go.....Duncan was a lock back in 2002. Ginobili will get in because of his overall resume and winning at every level (maybe not first ballot). Parker is the odd man out unless he adds a few more titles. His international resume is hardly anything to write home about and he hasn't established himself as being among the elite PG consistently enough to be HOF worthy.

Obviously Reggie is not Ewing, Malone, Pippen, Barkley, Robinson but he was the best shooter of his generstion and one of the most clutch players of his generation. He scored more than 25,000 career pts and had 6 seasons avg more than 20 pts a game. He was the all time 3 pt leader as well. How many 20 pt seasons has Manu had? I keep hearing about his overall resume and by that you must mean the Olympic Gold Medal well Reggie won that in 96. He was a better player than Manu by far. And i love Manu i am not trying to bash him, just trying to be fair here..

[BadOne]

HOF never ceases to amaze me after I saw this dumbass inducted.

http://www.bustedplay.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/dicky-v.jpg

Didn't play college or pro ball. A few winning seasons as a collegiate coach. Sucked as an NBA coach for a short while, but he can say "BABY" so...that just about made him HOF material. As much as I'd like to see Tony and Manu inducted, I won't be holding my breath.

[DAF86]

How is that gonna happen when Reggie missed the first ballot. Reggie has a olympic gold medal to boot and was a way better player than Manu has ever been.. Seriously..

Manu led his team to gold, Reggie didn't. Manu has led multiple teams to multiple championships and has a lot of individual hardware to go with it.

And how is Reggie "way better" than Manu?

[EricB]

HOF never ceases to amaze me after I saw this dumbass inducted.

http://www.bustedplay.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/dicky-v.jpg

Didn't play college or pro ball. A few winning seasons as a collegiate coach. Sucked as an NBA coach for a short while, but he can say "BABY" so...that just about made him HOF material. As much as I'd like to see Tony and Manu inducted, I won't be holding my breath.


inducted as a member of the media for basketball.


College Basketball is VERY popular due in a small part to his commentating.

[dbreiden83080]

Manu led his team to gold, Reggie didn't. Manu has led multiple teams to multiple championships and has a lot of individual hardware to go with it.

And how is Reggie "way better" than Manu?

Manu has led teams to championships in the NBA? Really he has huh? I guess he didn't play with one of the 10 best players of all time in his prime.. I guess he would have rings anyway..

[DAF86]

Manu has led teams to championships in the NBA? Really he has huh? I guess he didn't play with one of the 10 best players of all time in his prime.. I guess he would have rings anyway..

Read what I said.

[Kori Ellis]

One of the guy's criteria for his formula is "height." :lol

[dbreiden83080]

Read what I said.

I did and you are overblowing his NBA career and under-cutting Reggies.. Reggie and Manu both have gold medals. Reggie has way better stats and was the more dominant player..

He is more deserving than Manu by quite a bit..

[Mark in Austin]

:lol Reggie Miller better than Manu? Healthier maybe. Not better. What did Miller ever win?

[DAF86]

I did and you are overblowing his NBA career and under-cutting Reggies.. Reggie and Manu both have gold medals. Reggie has way better stats and was the more dominant player..

He is more deserving than Manu by quite a bit..

No, you aren't. Where did I in that post overblow Manu's NBA career?

[dbreiden83080]

No, you aren't. Where did I in that post overblown Manu's NBA career?

So who deserves HOF more

Reggie or Manu?

[DAF86]

So who deserves HOF more

Reggie or Manu?

Manu, no doubt. But I don't see how that is "overblowing" Manu's NBA career.

[ChuckD]

How is that gonna happen when Reggie missed the first ballot. Reggie has a olympic gold medal to boot and was a way better player than Manu has ever been.. Seriously..

Your mistake is that you're only looking at Manu's NBA resume. If you want to see why Mau is a mortal lock for the HOF, look at Drazen Petrovic's combined career, FIBA/Euro/NBA. Drazen was a first ballot hybrid NBA/Euro/FIBA induction.

[MannyIsGod]

Players like Tony, Manu, Dirk, Yao, international players basically, are near locks to make the hall because there is an additional spot in the induction class just for international players. The only way Manu isn't first ballot is if another international player with a better résumé (not likely) retires the same year.


I was debating this a week or so ago about Manu being in the HOF and i stand by what i say about that's gonna be tough. Reggie Miller just got passed over on the first ballot. He'll get in but Reggie Miller is not first ballot to these clowns..

WOW!!!

As PC just pointed out, Tony and Manu face much less competition because of their international status.

[ChuckD]

One of the guy's criteria for his formula is "height." :lol

Actually, you're penalized for it.

His criteria are bizarre, but if you look at where his 'line' is, it's like 90-95% accurate, both above and below the line.

[dbreiden83080]

Your mistake is that you're only looking at Manu's NBA resume. If you want to see why Mau is a mortal lock for the HOF, look at Drazen Petrovic's combined career, FIBA/Euro/NBA. Drazen was a first ballot hybrid NBA/Euro/FIBA induction.

No i'm not but i am gonna look hard at his NBA run since that is where he spent 90% of his basketball days.. To me there are better players than Manu not in the HOF and guys like Miller getting snubbed is alarming..

[dbreiden83080]

As PC just pointed out, Tony and Manu face much less competition because of their international status.

So how does Reggie getting a gold medal and being a better NBA player fit into that critertia??

Sounds like a serious loophole.. If it's just about international spots for these guys. That is kinda bullshit..

[DAF86]

No i'm not but i am gonna look hard at his NBA run since that is where he spent 90% of his basketball days.. To me there are better players than Manu not in the HOF and guys like Miller getting snubbed is alarming..

Manu turned pro at age 18, he got to the NBA at age 24 and during his NBA career he kept playing international ball. He didn't spent nowhere close to 90% of his BB days in the NBA.

[ChuckD]

No i'm not but i am gonna look hard at his NBA run since that is where he spent 90% of his basketball days.. To me there are better players than Manu not in the HOF and guys like Miller getting snubbed is alarming..

Manu had a Euro/International career until age 25, and his FIBA accomplishments (WC/Olympics) overlapped both his Euro and NBA careers. His NBA career is NOT 90% of his career, more like 55-60%.

[ChuckD]

So how does Reggie getting a gold medal and being a better NBA player fit into that critertia??

Sounds like a serious loophole.. If it's just about international spots for these guys. That is kinda bullshit..

It's the BASKETBALL HOF. There are girls, college only players, referees, and broadcasters in it.

Please don't compare Reggie's Olympic medal to Manu's. There were probably 5-10 American guards you could have plugged in to his spot. Without Manu, Argentina likely doesn't make the medal round.

[cherylsteele]

I still have yet to understand why Artis Gilmore keeps getting passed over, yet Rodman gets on the ballot.

[dbreiden83080]

I still have yet to understand why Artis Gilmore keeps getting passed over, yet Rodman gets on the ballot.

Thank you.. But all anyone around here wants to talk about is international play.. How about better fuckin players not being in the HOF... You know better at basketball since it is the basketball HOF..

[ChuckD]

I don't like the guys model at all he explicitly states that the voters tend to ignore aba accomplishments which is kind of true but they definitely don't ignore international and college accomplishments which makes Manu from 26 to about 10 and from a just 13% chance to around a 60% chance. Now I'm not saying the make-up of the voters won't change in the 8 to 10 years before manu retires and becomes eligible but having no college and international consideration on there makes it a flawed site.

If you look at the top of the list, it says ABA/NBA. That's all that is being evaluated. Don't try to make it something that it isn't.

[ChuckD]

Thank you.. But all anyone around here wants to talk about is international play.. How about better fuckin players not being in the HOF... You know better at basketball since it is the basketball HOF..

You're the one that brought up Manu, bitching that you didn't understand why he was a lock and Reggie Miller wasn't. If you just want to cry and whack off to your Reggie posters and not discuss the merits of different types of candidates, then fuck you. You don't need to be in this thread to do that.

[roycrikside]

How is that gonna happen when Reggie missed the first ballot. Reggie has a olympic gold medal to boot and was a way better player than Manu has ever been.. Seriously..


Dude, maybe you should do some research before spouting off. You don't understand that it's not the NBA Hall of Fame, it's the BASKETBALL Hall of Fame, and they take the totality of a guy's accomplishments into account, not just their NBA career.

If you can't comprehend what a massive accomplishment it is, to win a gold medal and the MVP of the tournament where team USA consisted of perennial All-Stars, I don't know what to tell you. Every US team in the Olympics with NBA players on it has won the gold medal except for 2004.

Also, Ginobili was a two-time Euroleague MVP, and a champion there too.

Then take into account his NBA career, where he's won three titles (going on four) and been an integral part of two of them, I mean come on. Manu was a Hall of Fame lock in 2005. If you don't understand that, you don't understand the rules.

And honestly, HOF aside, I'd take Manu over Miller any day of the week and twice on Sunday. All Miller did was score. He wasn't a rebounder, passer, or any kind of defender. He was your classic 25-1-1 guy. Manu's a multi-faceted player who can help you win in a number of ways. Players like Miller and Ray Allen don't do much for me, to be honest. They're just one-dimensional. I like my shooting guards to be "five-tool players" and impact the game in every respect.

[DAF86]

Thank you.. But all anyone around here wants to talk about is international play.. How about better fuckin players not being in the HOF... You know better at basketball since it is the basketball HOF..

Better according who? You can't get players into the HoF based on subjective opinions, you have to consider titles, accolades, stats, etc. and since it's the basketball Hall of Fame, all leagues should be considered not only the NBA.

[romain.star]

It's the BASKETBALL HOF. There are girls, college only players, referees, and broadcasters in it.

Please don't compare Reggie's Olympic medal to Manu's. There were probably 5-10 American guards you could have plugged in to his spot. Without Manu, Argentina likely doesn't make the medal round.

To me (and many others), the NBA is Basketball

[dbreiden83080]

You're the one that brought up Manu, bitching that you didn't understand why he was a lock and Reggie Miller wasn't. If you just want to cry and whack off to your Reggie posters and not discuss the merits of different types of candidates, then fuck you. You don't need to be in this thread to do that.

:lol

Fuckin baby!!! I explained Milller's merits in this thread already. All you want to talk about is other factors that get Manu in but keep better players than Manu out.. I was pretty clear. Gilmore was a great ABA And NBA player yet he never gets in and Manu should be in because he played overseas and in the NBA. Oh Reggie won a gold medal but that doesn't really count like Manu's does. Duncan didn't win a gold medal, i guess his HOF chances just went down.. :lol I get there are loopholes.. Just seems to me there needs to be changes..

[dbreiden83080]

Better according who? You can't get players into the HoF based on subjective opinions, you have to consider titles, accolades, stats, etc. and since it's the basketball Hall of Fame, all leagues should be considered not only the NBA.

I asked you before and i will again

Manu or Reggie? Who is more deserving and why??

[dbreiden83080]

To me (and many others), the NBA is Basketball

Pretty much.. And to me it is about dominance.. Not how many years you played in other leagues.. How dominant were you in the best league in the world? Was Manu ever a dominant NBA player?

No..

[DAF86]

I asked you before and i will again

Manu or Reggie? Who is more deserving and why??

Are you trolling? I have answered that question pretty clearly in this thread.

[TMTTRIO]

Hey Manu barely had to play in the NBA to be considered based on his international accomplishments alone. As for playing in the NBA, I agree Manu doesn't really have a really impressive resume. Manu will make it mostly based on his international accomplishments. He was one of the leaders of his Argentinean team that was the first international squad to ever beat Team USA since using professional players. He led his Argentinean squad to a gold medal plus all of the other medals that he's won with his international career. Other than Bill Bradley, he's the only player that's won in everything with Euroleague, NBA, and the Olympics.

[DAF86]

Pretty much.. And to me it is about dominance.. Not how many years you played in other leagues.. How dominant were you in the best league in the world? Was Manu ever a dominant NBA player?

No..

He was pretty dominant during the 2005 playoffs and finals.

[DAF86]

To me (and many others), the NBA is Basketball

But for the HoF it isn't the case, which is what we're arguing here.

[dbreiden83080]

Are you trolling? I have answered that question pretty clearly in this thread.

You have not addressed anythiing about Reggie

Tell me why he is less deserving in spite of the fact he was a far better and more dominant NBA player

[dbreiden83080]

He was pretty dominant during the 2005 playoffs and finals.

Reggie had 6 20 PPG seasons and was the all time 3 pt leader. He also pushed Jordans bulls to the limit in the playoffs.

[roycrikside]

I did and you are overblowing his NBA career and under-cutting Reggies.. Reggie and Manu both have gold medals. Reggie has way better stats and was the more dominant player..

He is more deserving than Manu by quite a bit..


Seriously dude, you must be pretty old or pretty ignorant. You're at least 40, right? You sound like Bill Fuckin' Simmons you're such a dinosaur.

Reggie better than Manu? ROFL. They're not even in the same galaxy.

Manu Career PER: 21.71 (32nd all time).

Miller Career PER: 18.36 (117th all time).

Tony has a better career PER than Reggie Frickin' Miller, and you know what? I'd much rather have him too.

Get out of here with your Miller worship. He's a glorified Craig Hodges except he didn't win shit.

[ChuckD]

Pretty much.. And to me it is about dominance.. Not how many years you played in other leagues.. How dominant were you in the best league in the world? Was Manu ever a dominant NBA player?

No..
There are Euro guys who never played ONE MINUTE in the NBA who are in. Should the ones that finally made the jump be penalized because YOU don't like the existing criteria? That would kind of make YOU the baby. The criteria are what they are, and I don't think they're going to change them because of your dislikes.

[romain.star]

He was pretty dominant during the 2005 playoffs and finals.

Manu will be a HOFer thanks to his impressive international résumé + his pretty good NBA achievements (2005 big time!)

But all in all, as much as i love the guy, the intrinsic BB skills of Manu Ginobili the player are not HOF material

[romain.star]

But for the HoF it isn't the case, which is what we're arguing here.

spot on

not gonna argue on that

[DAF86]

You have not addressed anythiing about Reggie

Tell me why he is less deserving in spite of the fact he was a far better and more dominant NBA player

Why? Because Manu has had a far more succesful basketball career, it's not even close.

And BTW, Miller having better volume stats than Manu doesn't mean he's the better basketball player. You have to consider that Manu got to the league a little late and he played his whole career alongside the best PF of all time.

[Galileo]

Hall Of Fame Monitor Leaders

(Likely HOFer > 135)

[these ratings do not consider college, Olympic or international ball]

Tim Duncan 441
David Robinson 289
George Gervin 213
Reggie Miller 130
Tony Parker 97
Manu Ginobili < 95

http://www.databasebasketball.com/leaders/leadershof.htm

HOF Monitor Scores of current or not yet eligible players

1. Karl Malone 501 (now in)
2. Tim Duncan 441
3. Shaquille O'neal 366
4. Kobe Bryant 331
5. Steve Nash 309
6. Kevin Garnett 294
7. Dirk Nowitzki 262
8. Allen Iverson 249
9. LeBron James 245
10. Jason Kidd 216
11. Scottie Pippen 189 (now in)
12. Gary Payton 173
13. Chris Webber 139
14. Tracy McGrady 136

HOF Monitor Scores of eligible players not in the HOF

1. Paul Westphal 143
2. Artis Gilmore 140
3. Spencer Haywood 138
4. Bernard King 135

Hall of Famers < 135

64. Sam Jones 135*
65. Gail Goodrich 134*
69. Hal Greer 130*
70. Lenny Wilkens 129*
71. Alex English 129*
73. David Thompson 128*
74. Nate Thurmond 128*
75. Bailey Howell 127*
76. Ed Macauley 127*
77. Adrian Dantley 126*
78. Earl Monroe 125*
83. Bob Davies 123*
89. Dan Issel 121*

note - Dennis Johnson is now in.

[Mal]

This list is stupid. How is Duncan with doubts ? How Vince Carter is 0,85 ? He has done shit. Bosh, Stoudemire, Paul, Anthony ahead of Nash.. All of them done shit.

[will_spurs]

How is that gonna happen when Reggie missed the first ballot. Reggie has a olympic gold medal to boot and was a way better player than Manu has ever been.. Seriously..

The outcry is that Miller didn't even make it to the final selection (on which their is a vote). But he was NEVER supposed to be first ballot. First ballot induction is for people like Jordan, Robinson, Duncan, Bryant. NOT for guys like Miller.

Actually ask around yourself and you will find people ready to debate if Miller should be in the HOF at all (no defense, no rebounding, can't create his own shot, etc.) whereas you won't find one person in their own mind, even the worst Lakers or Spurs homer, who would tell you that Duncan or Bryant aren't supposed to be first ballots.

[cherylsteele]

Thank you.. But all anyone around here wants to talk about is international play.. How about better fuckin players not being in the HOF... You know better at basketball since it is the basketball HOF..
It is the basketball HoF, not the NBA HoF, I understand totally where people are coming from talking about the international game.

I think Manu is a lock for the HoF as well, because of his entire body of work.

Parker remains to be seen.

As for Miller I think he is equally as deserving as Manu.
HoF voters are rather inconsistent bunch when they vote, kind like the voters for the Rock-and-Roll HoF. They also will make you scratch your head with their voting.

[hitmanyr2k]

Reggie had 6 20 PPG seasons and was the all time 3 pt leader. He also pushed Jordans bulls to the limit in the playoffs.

Eh...I wouldn't say he pushed the Bulls to the limit in '98. The Pacers collectively as a team did. Reggie had nice talent around him that could make up for the flaws in his game. He hit a game winner in Game 4. After that he wasn't really a factor the rest of the series. Game 5 the Pacers were blown out. Game 6 Smits carried them when Miller couldn't hit jack. In Game 7 I forgot Reggie was even on the floor in the 2nd half. He couldn't even get a shot off. Jordan and Pippen were off their games in Game 7 as well but were they truly shut down? No, because they played spectacular defense and also ended up with 10 offensive boards between them and that's where the Bulls won the game...dominating the boards for 2nd shots. You know how many rebounds Reggie had in a must-win Game 7? Zero. And it's been that way his entire career. If he's not scoring he's worthless. And I don't consider a player like that worthy of the HOF. Sure as hell not first ballot. He should be on the 20 year waiting list.

[Galileo]

Manu is already in.

Parker is already in, but he might have to wait 25 years if he does not add to his resume. But I think TP gets #4 this year and is in.

[Obstructed_View]

:lol

Fuckin baby!!! I explained Milller's merits in this thread already. All you want to talk about is other factors that get Manu in but keep better players than Manu out.. I was pretty clear. Gilmore was a great ABA And NBA player yet he never gets in and Manu should be in because he played overseas and in the NBA. Oh Reggie won a gold medal but that doesn't really count like Manu's does. Duncan didn't win a gold medal, i guess his HOF chances just went down.. :lol I get there are loopholes.. Just seems to me there needs to be changes..

Ironic, since all you've done in this entire thread is whine like a little twat.

There are a number of good reasons to put him in the hall, as you mentioned, but there are legitimate reasons people might not vote for him. His career average isn't that great (3rd lowest of top 30 scorers all-time), he was an extremely one-dimensional player (Payton and Parrish were great defenders), he shot a lot of threes per game, and didn't make that many (Dennis Scott and Mike Miller have made more threes per game in their careers). He scored a lot of points, but he played a lot of games (only Malone and Kareem played more for top scorers), and he only averaged 3 rebounds and 3 assists per game for his career.

In my opinion, it's a travesty that Reggie didn't at least make the final list, but the fact remains that Manu is a mortal lock. Sorry you can't deal with that reality or separate the two issues. You should have a problem with the voters, not with Manu. Seriously, I'm not sure how shitting on one deserving player seems to make you feel better about another not getting in.

[ogait]

I remember this formula on HOF probabilty being discussed here on Spurstalk long time ago.
There's things where mathematical formulas don't quite fit and this is one of them for sure.

[LakerHater]

I still have yet to understand why Artis Gilmore keeps getting passed over, yet Rodman gets on the ballot.
Fuckin Gilmore not being in the HOF is a travesty!!

[rascal]

Your mistake is that you're only looking at Manu's NBA resume. If you want to see why Mau is a mortal lock for the HOF, look at Drazen Petrovic's combined career, FIBA/Euro/NBA. Drazen was a first ballot hybrid NBA/Euro/FIBA induction.

Drazen was one of the first Euro impact players and got many sympathy votes. The bar has been raised since his induction with the influx of more foreign players.

Manu is not as much of a lock as most Spur fans think.

[Josepatches_]

How is that gonna happen when Reggie missed the first ballot. Reggie has a olympic gold medal to boot and was a way better player than Manu has ever been.. Seriously..


Miller was better than Manu.True.No way better but better.He was the franchise player of one of the best teams of the East in the 90's. Manu played along TP and the best PF of all-time,surely top10 in the NBA history.

But HOF is not about who was the best player.

Miller will be a HOF and I'm pretty sure Manu will be a HOF too

[diego]

The thing is that the HOF is not some kind of leader board about ranking the best players. It is not the Hall of Stats or the Hall of the Best Players. It is the Hall of FAME. Its more about being iconic than it is about being dominant.

That said, Reggie fits the bill and I expect him to make it- not for his pts scored or seasons played, but for being clutch and a prolific shooter. His NBA career is definitely superior to Manu's, and as a player I would consider him a little better too. But the difference between reggie's olympic gold and manu's is simple: Manu's is the first (and only thus far) olympic gold won against NBA players. not to mention, he was the star of the first team to defeat a US national team composed of NBA players that had won 52-54 (?) consecutive games. coincidentally, that US national team that lost? lost at canseco field house, home of its leader, reggie miller :toast

[ChuckD]

Drazen was one of the first Euro impact players and got many sympathy votes. The bar has been raised since his induction with the influx of more foreign players.

Manu is not as much of a lock as most Spur fans think.

Like who? Give me some examples of newer Euros/foreigners who have raised the bar beyond Manu.