I already see it happening

[monosylab1k]

Mavs-Grizzlies in the first round. Whether it's a 3-6 or a 2-7 matchup is irrelevant.

Grizzlies will take the series in 6 games. Fadeaway three pointers will be made. It's inevitable at this point.

Fuck my life.

[Greg Oden]

Our perimeter D guarding Gay Mayo :wow

[LnGrrrR]

A bit early for a jinx thread isn't it?

[DPG21920]

How are the Mavs winning so much though? I just can't figure it out.

[JJ Hickson]

Mavs will make it farther than the spurs. Book it.

[monosylab1k]

How are the Mavs winning so much though? I just can't figure it out.

They're a good team, that's probably how.

[Nick Manning]

bad time to drop a deuce at home no doubt

[MavDynasty]

Tbh fluke loss tonight. With all the bullshit happening it gave me flashbacks of GS

[Pelicans78]

I wonder if the Grizz will make the playoffs. They were fortunate tonight, but definitely choked at home on Friday night against a struggling Hornets team without West and Ariza. That was a bad loss for them and really made me question if they're good enough to keep the 8th spot from the Suns or Rockets.

[Nick Manning]

It's not an earth shattering loss but unacceptable nonetheless. You can't blow 17-point leads at home....that's Miami's job :lmao

[monosylab1k]

A bit early for a jinx thread isn't it?

I really don't see it as a jinx thread tbh. I truly believe the Grizzlies, while not exactly having a Golden State type ownage of Dallas, are familiar enough with the Mavericks, and have had enough current and past success against them that they could definitely take the Mavericks out in a series.

[Ghazi]

1-3 v Grizz, but 2 of those losses were just by 1 point. If Big Daddy was playing I bet we'd win tonight

Mavs will be fine in the 1st round, 2nd round is where an exit seems likely..

[Nick Manning]

karma is our daddies. all we need now is for every grizzlies player to grow a cool beard and destiny is set

tbh that made me spit up my beer :lol

[monosylab1k]

I love how Mike Conley is pretty much the definition of an average point guard, but of course against Dallas he always looks like Nash Iverson.

[Nick Manning]

tbh I think the Mavs chances of making the WCF significantly increase if they tank it for the #4 seed imho

[LnGrrrR]

Just hope they're using up all their clutch against you in the regular season.

[DPG21920]

that's what we've all been saying about the spurs. neither team is doing shit

Spurs are doing something. Dirk is a jump shooter, albeit a hell of a jump shooter. They only have one dimension and they have no second option.

Spurs on the other hand have balance on their roster, a deep bench, a competent coach and at least two players (Manu and TP) that can be #1 or #2 options offensively.


Mavs will make it farther than the spurs. Book it.

They might make it as far, but not further.


They're a good team, that's probably how.

A good "team"? Like I said, they don't have much talent overall (at least offensively) and they are not THAT good defensively to make up for it. Maybe with Caron they had enough talent, but even then, he was probably the weakest #2 option for one of the top teams record wise.

Without them, who is their second option? What true skill players do they have and where is the balance on the roster?

[Axe Murderer]

I can see that series to be like the 2005 first round with Houston. Potential to go 7 games but Dallas would definitely win the ones they need to

[Nick Manning]

The Grizz have beat some quality teams this year, tbh. They're no joke

[DPG21920]

I love how Mike Conley is pretty much the definition of an average point guard, but of course against Dallas he always looks like Nash Iverson.

Conley has had a pretty solid year if you have watched him. Not an all-star, but definitely having his best year.

[monosylab1k]

A good "team"? Like I said, they don't have much talent overall (at least offensively) and they are not THAT good defensively to make up for it. Maybe with Caron they had enough talent, but even then, he was probably the weakest #2 option for one of the top teams record wise.

Without them, who is their second option? What true skill players do they have and where is the balance on the roster?

ok

[Pelicans78]

Spurs can sneak into the WCF because OKC won't be able to challenge the Spurs frontcourt which is their weakness. Spurs are a perimeter oriented team just like OKC and they do it better and OKC can't take advantage of the Spurs frontcourt.

[monosylab1k]

Conley has had a pretty solid year if you have watched him. Not an all-star, but definitely having his best year.

Yeah that's probably why I didn't say he sucked.

[Nick Manning]

Spurs are doing something. Dirk is a jump shooter, albeit a hell of a jump shooter. They only have one dimension and they have no second option.

Spurs on the other hand have balance on their roster, a deep bench, a competent coach and at least two players (Manu and TP) that can be #1 or #2 options offensively.


scro the Spurs have no frontcourt to speak of. Tim Duncan averages like 4ppg against the Lakers and Bynum, Odom and Gasol are going to take a steaming shit on them come playoff time.

So in essence the Spurs will be reduced to jumpshooting too once Philip packs the paint (like he always do about this tiiiiiime).

If this was the NCAA tourney then the Spurs would look good, but this is the NBA, and good guard play will only take you so far

[DPG21920]

I love how Mike Conley is pretty much the definition of an average point guard, but of course against Dallas he always looks like Nash Iverson.

You did say this and it's not just vs the Mavs. He has had plenty of really good games. Better than tonight's.

[DPG21920]

scro the Spurs have no frontcourt to speak of. Tim Duncan averages like 4ppg against the Lakers and Bynum, Odom and Gasol are going to take a steaming shit on them come playoff time.

So in essence the Spurs will be reduced to jumpshooting too once Philip packs the paint (like he always do about this tiiiiiime).

If this was the NCAA tourney then the Spurs would look good, but this is the NBA, and good guard play will only take you so far

Spurs have more of an inside presence than the Mavs. Tim, even in a reduced role is still 10x the post player that either Tyson or Dirk is.

Spurs do have a front court, but of course no one's front court matches up with LA's. But at least the Spurs have a back court advantage to help overcome that. TP and Manu have the ability to play like super stars. Mavs don't have that.

[Pelicans78]

Tbh, Memphis is the kind of team that could give the Spurs a little trouble. Definitely won't beat them, but with their frontcourt, could still a game or two. Really, the Spurs should make it to the WCF pretty easily.

[Axe Murderer]

Spurs have more of an inside presence than the Mavs. Tim, even in a reduced role is still 10x the post player that either Tyson or Dirk is.

Spurs do have a front court, but of course no one's front court matches up with LA's. But at least the Spurs have a back court advantage to help overcome that. TP and Manu have the ability to play like super stars. Mavs don't have that.

ok

[monosylab1k]

Not an all-star

Sounds like a guy that isn't great and isn't terrible.

Now if I were to describe something/someone that is neither great nor terrible, is neither one of the best nor one of the worst, is not too hot or not too cold....hmmm what word would that be? What.....word.....could....I.....use????

[DPG21920]

Tbh, Memphis is the kind of team that could give the Spurs a little trouble. Definitely won't beat them, but with their frontcourt, could still a game or two. Really, the Spurs should make it to the WCF pretty easily.

Memphis is a tough match up for the Spurs. Like people said, they aren't great, but they have enough fire power and size that they can make life difficult. For the Mavs and/or the Spurs.

[DPG21920]

ok

Is what I said not true?

[Pelicans78]

Spurs have more of an inside presence than the Mavs. Tim, even in a reduced role is still 10x the post player that either Tyson or Dirk is.

Spurs do have a front court, but of course no one's front court matches up with LA's. But at least the Spurs have a back court advantage to help overcome that. TP and Manu have the ability to play like super stars. Mavs don't have that.

Rather take Dirk's overall offense over Duncan's post office and definitely would rather take Chandler's post defense over Duncan. Chandler can cover more ground and is alot more active. I gave the Mavs frontcourt the edge over the Spurs, but I like the Spurs perimeter over the Mavs.

[DPG21920]

Sounds like a guy that isn't great and isn't terrible.

Now if I were to describe something/someone that is neither great nor terrible, is neither one of the best nor one of the worst, is not too hot or not too cold....hmmm what word would that be? What.....word.....could....I.....use????

U Mad?

[monosylab1k]

In a 7 game series Spurs and Lakers both will beat the Mavericks. I've yet to see anything to make me believe anything else.

Out of the lower seeds, Memphis is the one team that I feel sure would beat Dallas, which of course is why the basketball gods will make sure that matchup happens.

[Axe Murderer]

Is what I said not true?

no

[Axe Murderer]

Tim, even in a reduced role is still 10x the post player that either Tyson or Dirk is.


Derrick Favors is a better post player than Dirk as well.

Who would you rather have on your team?

[DPG21920]

tyson/dirk/marion/haywood get more combined points in the paint than duncan, that's why. dirk is the best offensive player in the league and the true mvp, that's the ONLY reason along with solid defensive bigs and shooters.


Rather take Dirk's overall offense over Duncan's post office and definitely would rather take Chandler's post defense over Duncan. Chandler can cover more ground and is alot more active. I gave the Mavs frontcourt the edge over the Spurs, but I like the Spurs perimeter over the Mavs.

Uh, the Mavs have no true post player. I'm not comparing Tim vs Dirk overall offense. I'm saying the Spurs actually have someone who plays inside. Then not only that, they have at least two guys that can be offensive superstars in TP and Manu. They have more talent.

[Nick Manning]

Dallas' bigs are much better equipt to defend LA then SA's, tbh. Spurs have better guard play though. Guard play won't save you against Los Angeles though...it never does

[DPG21920]

Derrick Favors is a better post player than Dirk as well.

Who would you rather have on your team?

That misses the point entirely.

[#41 Shoot Em Up]

Def. no reason to lose this game, getting outscored 41-23 in the 3rd is just stupid.
Not so concerned about LA picking up a game considering we have to see
them on Saturday and can pick it back up with a W. Issue all season has been the
Mavs inability to sustain a lead. Overall not too concerned, knew a loss was coming
and can get it back against Minnesota Monday.

Couple bright spots were Roddy and Brewer, both played well I felt. Sucks that the 2 losses have been by end of thegame jumpers but .... thats the NBA.
Let's go get it tommorow, hopefully TC is back

[Pelicans78]

Uh, the Mavs have no true post player. I'm not comparing Tim vs Dirk overall offense. I'm saying the Spurs actually have someone who plays inside. Then not only that, they have at least two guys that can be offensive superstars in TP and Manu. They have more talent.

Duncan's post offense isn't gonna be too effective against Chandler. Really, its not going to be much of an option. The Spurs are going to win with penetration and kick out.

[Axe Murderer]

That misses the point entirely.

how the fuck does that miss the point?

You're basically saying over and over that Duncan is worse than Dirk but a better post player so I compared him to another guy who's a worse player but also plays in the post. If you somehow can't connect the dots I can't help you.

[DPG21920]

Dallas' bigs are much better equipt to defend LA then SA's, tbh. Spurs have better guard play though. Guard play won't save you against Los Angeles though...it never does

Dirk is a non-issue defensively against LA, so unless you are saying there is some large gap between TC and Duncan defensively, I have to disagree. Mavs have 0 offensive presence in the post. Spurs have some with Tim. They also have some elite guard talent, and even their 4th option on the wing, RJ, has talent and can go for 20 on any given night.

Mavs just don't have enough talent and they aren't good enough defensively to overcome that.

Spurs are better than the Mavs in almost every area of the game IMO and while Dirk is the best player in that series, that is no where near enough to overcome all of the other trouble areas.

[#41 Shoot Em Up]

Spurs are better than the Mavs in almost every area of the game .

:lol I'll be sure to bump this come April

[DPG21920]

Spurs have more of an inside presence than the Mavs. Tim, even in a reduced role is still 10x the post player that either Tyson or Dirk is.

Spurs do have a front court, but of course no one's front court matches up with LA's. But at least the Spurs have a back court advantage to help overcome that. TP and Manu have the ability to play like super stars. Mavs don't have that.


ok


Is what I said not true?


no


Derrick Favors is a better post player than Dirk as well.

Who would you rather have on your team?

The point was saying that (offensively) the Spurs do have someone in the low post and comparing Tim to Favors makes you an idiot.

The other point was that overall, the Spurs have talent in other areas to help overcome the short comings in the front court that no one can compare to (LA).

That does not make the Spurs the favorites, but what I am saying is that overall, the Spurs have a guy in Duncan that is a HoF that you can count on to win you a game still at times AND they have TP/Manu who are capable of being all-star type players.

[#41 Shoot Em Up]

So what's the debate here?? that SA is better than Dallas? Or that SA is a better match up against LA then Dallas???? I would of thought today would of shut that shit up

[Nick Manning]

Dirk is a non-issue defensively against LA, so unless you are saying there is some large gap between TC and Duncan defensively, I have to disagree. Mavs have 0 offensive presence in the post. Spurs have some with Tim. They also have some elite guard talent, and even their 4th option on the wing, RJ, has talent and can go for 20 on any given night.

Mavs just don't have enough talent and they aren't good enough defensively to overcome that.

Spurs are better than the Mavs in almost every area of the game IMO and while Dirk is the best player in that series, that is no where near enough to overcome all of the other trouble areas.

TC>>>>Duncan defensively, imho. Agree to disagree.

RJ? really bro? He had a nice start to the season, but he's been a festering turd since then. I'll take Ron-Ron to effectively win that matchup in a series. The Lakers pretty much concede that the opponents PG will go off while they shut everybody else down.

I think the Spurs are better than the Mavs by virtue of HCA, but SA matches up terribly with the Lakers in the playoffs while the Mavs have some favorable matchups (albeit not enough, tho)

[DPG21920]

there's no other possible explanation other than you are overrating your own players and underrating ours. if the spurs players are so good and the mav players suck so bad then it wouldn't be this close. it's an error on your part. the mavs have decent defense and rebounding, good ball movement, and shooters to compliment the biggest offensive threat in the league. that's only enough to take us so far.

That is a credit to Dirk's greatness. You are overrating the regular season, just like last year (not a GNSF taunt). The Mavs lacked enough offensive talent last year in the playoffs and they are WORSE this year in that department. Dirk is great enough to win a shit load of regular season games and keep them close.

I am looking at things for playoff success. The way the Spurs are built from top to bottom (Overall talent, offensive options, defense, bench, coaching...) is more conducive to winning in the PO.

I'm not saying there is some monumental gap like the Spurs would sweep. I am saying the Spurs are better for the reasons I mentioned, namely, I'll take Tim v. Dirk due to Tim's pedigree more than the Mavs will take their backcourt vs TP/Manu.

[DPG21920]

:lol I'll be sure to bump this come April

Did you bump it last year when the Spurs won? What has changed? What tilts it in the Mavs favor? The loss of Caron? Or the pick up of Peja?

[Axe Murderer]

The point was saying that (offensively) the Spurs do have someone in the low post and comparing Tim to Favors makes you an idiot.

Playing in the low post doesn't mean that you're also effective.

At this stage of career, Duncan will not be able to take over games so it doesn't matter.

If he's such an effective post player, how do you explain his 2 point performance today? Doesn't really sound like a guy who can be called upon in the playoffs.

On top of that, Chandler defends Duncan as well as anybody in the league.

[Nick Manning]

Did you bump it last year when the Spurs won? What has changed? What tilts it in the Mavs favor? The loss of Caron? Or the pick up of Peja?

Probably the pickup of a legit defensive anchor, tbh.

but I still like the Spurs better by virtue of HCA

[JoeTait75]

I really don't see it as a jinx thread tbh. I truly believe the Grizzlies, while not exactly having a Golden State type ownage of Dallas, are familiar enough with the Mavericks, and have had enough current and past success against them that they could definitely take the Mavericks out in a series.

Memphis won't have the HC advantage Golden State had. Mavs would win at least once in Grizz's dead-ass building imo and that's all they would need to do, imo.

[badfish22]

Did you bump it last year when the Spurs won? What has changed? What tilts it in the Mavs favor? The loss of Caron? Or the pick up of Peja?

Not arguing Mavs>spurs, because I don't believe that, but Chandler has been great in his role and Roddy is basically a new player since he didn't play at all last series (aside from that quarter when he ran train). A mavs-spurs series could go either way in my mind.

[monosylab1k]

Or the pick up of Peja?

on a side note, Peja looks like a guy just barely clinging to what remains of his NBA career. And somehow he starts for Dallas.

The Mavs only hope is that Carlisle stops playing Peja and Barea and gives all their minutes to Brewer and Roddy. That will be a cold day in hell.

[Nick Manning]

I rescind my HCA comment when it comes to a Mavs-Spurs series...the team w/o has won the last 3 times :lol

[DPG21920]

if you take 2 even teams, hype up one teams players to be better than what they really are while underrating the other teams players then you can make it seem like such a gap when there really isn't one, dpg. I'll make it real simple for you

TC is a lot better defensively than TD
mavs defense is better overall
mavs rebounding is much better overall
Dirk is easily the best player on either team

this offsets any advantage SA has at the guard positions or anywhere else. that's why the teams are so close.

What are you talking about? Tim/Manu/TP talent wise is much better overall than Mavs, especially offensively.

The numbers do not show that TC is a lot better than TD defensively. He may be more agile and look more spry, but Tim's impact is as big. The numbers tell us that.

Mavs defense is arguably better and even then I doubt it. The numbers tell us that as well. Then when you look at personnel, the Mavs lost their only real perimeter defender in Butler and replaced him with Peja. Now, Brewer might help, but will he get minutes?

The rebounding is probably a wash, but the Spurs have been struggling. Hopefully their best players actually playing normal minutes will regulate that.

The teams are close and again, I am not stating they aren't. Point is, the Mavs are marginally better than last year (that all comes defensively), but overall without Caron, they are worse offensively. That is why they lost last year to the Spurs and I don't see how that changes.


TC>>>>Duncan defensively, imho. Agree to disagree.

RJ? really bro? He had a nice start to the season, but he's been a festering turd since then. I'll take Ron-Ron to effectively win that matchup in a series. The Lakers pretty much concede that the opponents PG will go off while they shut everybody else down.

I think the Spurs are better than the Mavs by virtue of HCA, but SA matches up terribly with the Lakers in the playoffs while the Mavs have some favorable matchups (albeit not enough, tho)

Again, the numbers don't show TC>>>>>>TD defensively. They just don't. That is both team and individual.

RJ has played poorly, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have talent, which is my point. You have to have talent, even if at times they play like ass (Hi, Caron).

Again, it comes down to me saying I'll take Tim (with his pedigree) to get closer to matching Dirk than I will take anyone on the Mavs matching up talent wise with RJ/TP/Manu.

[#41 Shoot Em Up]

Did you bump it last year when the Spurs won? What has changed? What tilts it in the Mavs favor? The loss of Caron? Or the pick up of Peja?

Is this really worth debating? We all saw today that SA will
not beat LA in a 7 game series. Dallas has the frontline to compete
with them but will that be enough?? Probably not.
As far as Dallas and SA, please this has been talked about over and over.
You're a Spurs fan who thinks SA is better and i'm Mavs fan who thinks
Dallas is better. Is what either of us say to the other really gonna change the others opinion??? Probably not, so what's the point?

[DPG21920]

Playing in the low post doesn't mean that you're also effective.

At this stage of career, Duncan will not be able to take over games so it doesn't matter.

If he's such an effective post player, how do you explain his 2 point performance today? Doesn't really sound like a guy who can be called upon in the playoffs.

On top of that, Chandler defends Duncan as well as anybody in the league.

Acting like Tim still can't win you a game(s) is damn foolish IMO. We will just have to see.

[DPG21920]

Probably the pickup of a legit defensive anchor, tbh.

but I still like the Spurs better by virtue of HCA

So picking up a defensive anchor, but losing a perimeter defender and replacing him with a turnstile (Peja) all the while losing your best offensive 2nd option (Caron) is enough to push the Mavs over the Spurs when they couldn't beat them with HCA last year?

[mikeschy55]

TC>>>>Duncan defensively, imho. Agree to disagree.

RJ? really bro? He had a nice start to the season, but he's been a festering turd since then. I'll take Ron-Ron to effectively win that matchup in a series. The Lakers pretty much concede that the opponents PG will go off while they shut everybody else down.

I think the Spurs are better than the Mavs by virtue of HCA, but SA matches up terribly with the Lakers in the playoffs while the Mavs have some favorable matchups (albeit not enough, tho)

It's not even close. Tyson's interior defense is far superior to Duncans at this point in his career. Chandler is the Maverick's MVP (besides Dirk of course).

[DPG21920]

Not arguing Mavs>spurs, because I don't believe that, but Chandler has been great in his role and Roddy is basically a new player since he didn't play at all last series (aside from that quarter when he ran train). A mavs-spurs series could go either way in my mind.

It could, but IMO, it would be an upset if the Mavs won. I make it 70/30 Spurs, but Dirk is so good, that he can win a series by himself.

[#41 Shoot Em Up]

if the mavs suck so bad then what does that say about the spurs?

Tbh the Lakers will probably beat the Mavs by 30+ as well.
Because you know, SA is better

[Axe Murderer]

replacing him with a turnstile (Peja)

Corey Brewer says hi

[DPG21920]

Is this really worth debating? We all saw today that SA will
not beat LA in a 7 game series. Dallas has the frontline to compete
with them but will that be enough?? Probably not.
As far as Dallas and SA, please this has been talked about over and over.
You're a Spurs fan who thinks SA is better and i'm Mavs fan who thinks
Dallas is better. Is what either of us say to the other really gonna change the others opinion??? Probably not, so what's the point?


if the mavs suck so bad then what does that say about the spurs?

I never said the Mavs suck. Also, the Spurs beat the Mavs in the playoffs last year and are better this year, while the Mavs lost their 2nd option.

[DPG21920]

were the spurs better built for playoff success in 2009 whenever they got swept by such a poorly constructed playoff team?

They were built better than the Mavs. Hence the defeat at the hands of the Spurs.

[DPG21920]

It's not even close. Tyson's interior defense is far superior to Duncans at this point in his career. Chandler is the Maverick's MVP (besides Dirk of course).

No, it's not.

[#41 Shoot Em Up]

I never said the Mavs suck. Also, the Spurs beat the Mavs in the playoffs last year and are better this year, while the Mavs lost their 2nd option.

Who said that Butler was the Mavs second option???
This is a guy who was routinely benched in favor of Marion
most 4th quarters. Terry is and will always be the Mavs second option as long as he is here. That is a fact

[mikeschy55]

The spurs don't have the big men to compete with the Lakers, we saw that today. Bynum grabbed 15 boards in 20 minutes, the Lakers dominated the Spurs in the paint.

No NBA team has won a ring with a 6-7 center in about 40 years. On the other hand.... no team has won a ring without a legit 2nd option for quite some time too... I think Roddy could probably fix that, but apparently Rick isn't changing courses from last season anyway. Neither team is likely to win a ring.... so all this debating is kind of pointless.

[DPG21920]

Corey Brewer says hi

So your offense is REALLYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY going to struggle then. Now, you literally have Dirk and no one else on the floor that can do anything offensively?

Is he really going to get enough minutes to make an impact defensively? Enough to make up for Caron missing?

[Pelicans78]

Mavs frontcourt > Spurs frontcourt

Peja should be moved to the backup PF spot. Will help spread the floor for the bench.

Start Kidd, Roddy, and Brewer.

JJ the backup PG, Terry the backup SG, Marion the backup SF, and Peja comes in for Dirk.

[DPG21920]

Who said that Butler was the Mavs second option???
This is a guy who was routinely benched in favor of Marion
most 4th quarters. Terry is and will always be the Mavs second option as long as he is here. That is a fact

If you don't know that Caron was the 2nd option on your own team, there is not much to say.

[DPG21920]

The spurs don't have the big men to compete with the Lakers, we saw that today. Bynum grabbed 15 boards in 20 minutes, the Lakers dominated the Spurs in the paint.

No NBA team has won a ring with a 6-7 center in about 40 years. On the other hand.... no team has won a ring without a legit 2nd option for quite some time too... I think Roddy could probably fix that, but apparently Rick isn't changing courses from last season anyway. Neither team is likely to win a ring.

You realize the Spurs will be playing McDyess a lot in the playoffs?

[DPG21920]

Mavs frontcourt > Spurs frontcourt

Peja should be moved to the backup PF spot. Will help spread the floor for the bench.

Start Kidd, Roddy, and Brewer.

JJ the backup PG, Terry the backup SG, Marion the backup SF, and Peja comes in for Dirk.

Again, I will take Tim vs. Dirk (in theory) in any given game production wise, compared to what the Mavs have to throw at TP/Manu.

[#41 Shoot Em Up]

If you don't know that Caron was the 2nd option on your own team, there is not much to say.

So one of your main reasons the Spurs are better than Dallas is
because the Mavs lost a 3rd option and the Spurs got better with.....
Neal and Splitter??? Or who did the Spurs add that made them better?

[#41 Shoot Em Up]

You realize the Spurs will be playing McDyess a lot in the playoffs?

That solves everything

[DPG21920]

So one of your main reasons the Spurs are better than Dallas is
because the Mavs lost a 3rd option and the Spurs got better with.....
Neal and Splitter??? Or who did the Spurs add that made them better?

A fully healthy compliment of #2 options (TP/Manu). A very productive bench player (Neal) and more depth (Anderson).

My main reason the Spurs are better is because they beat the Mavs last year in the playoffs and the Mavs are at best a wash over themselves last year with Caron being gone.

[DPG21920]

That solves everything

Who said it did? Point is, It's not just Blair out there. We have a taller guy who will see the bulk of the minutes. Whether that works out or not is another story.

[Pelicans78]

Again, I will take Tim vs. Dirk (in theory) in any given game production wise, compared to what the Mavs have to throw at TP/Manu.

Maybe, but the Spurs don't have anyone who can guard Dirk. Heck they can't even guard David West. Also, Chandler will make Duncan quiet offensively.

I do agree TP/Manu have an edge, but the Mavs may get lucky and see Marion and Brewer defend Manu well and hope the Roddy and Terry score consistently.

I think the matchup is alot closer than you give credit for. Even with an injured Caron, the Mavs are better overall than last year's team.

[mikeschy55]

You realize the Spurs will be playing McDyess a lot in the playoffs?

well.... if he's supposed to fulfill your needs for interior defense, then good luck

I mean..... even from a homers perspective, it's not hard to see that the Spurs seriously lack interior D. That's not a good formula for playoff success. The Mavs don't have a great formula for playoff success either though with no true 2nd option (or one what would play). So.... I'm not just bashing the spurs here, I think both teams lack vital playoff components and probably won't make it to the finals

[# 1 Troll]

SA is not better than Dallas or LA( as if that's worth a debate after today)

[DPG21920]

I don't think they are better without Caron. I think the strides they made on one end (defensive, even though Caron was their best perimeter defender) was negated by their losses on the other (offensive).

Mavs struggled to score vs the Spurs last year. It's worse now.

Spurs have never had anyone that can guard Dirk. No one does. But again, you guys are really quick to throw Duncan under a bus (given, he has really been a non factor offensively because he hasn't had to and he has struggled mightly at times), and he is a HoF who still has something left on both ends IMO.

The match up is close. But again, the Mavs IMO are at best a wash over last year with Caron out and their lack of talent/scoring hurt them vs the Spurs last year. Spurs, even though they didn't add any world beaters, are better than last year and they haven't lost any key pieces.

[# 1 Troll]

A fully healthy compliment of #2 options (TP/Manu). A very productive bench player (Neal) and more depth (Anderson).

My main reason the Spurs are better is because they beat the Mavs last year in the playoffs and the Mavs are at best a wash over themselves last year with Caron being gone.

Hmmmmm. So a chucker and a rookie who has been injured and irrelevent all season are your big additions??? And Dallas is a wash with the additions of Chandler, Roddy Beboiuos, Brewer, and Peja??? Interesting to say the least

[DPG21920]

well.... if he's supposed to fulfill your needs for interior defense, then good luck

I mean..... even from a homers perspective, it's not hard to see that the Spurs seriously lack interior D. That's not a good formula for playoff success. The Mavs don't have a great formula for playoff success either though with no true 2nd option (or one what would play). So.... I'm not just bashing the spurs here, I think both teams lack vital playoff components and probably won't make it to the finals

I agree. LA is the favorite. I just think the Spurs are better than the Mavs and have a better chance overall. Even though LA is clearly the favorite.

[DPG21920]

Hmmmmm. So a chucker and a rookie who has been injured and irrelevent all season are your big additions??? And Dallas is a wash with the additions of Chandler, Roddy Beboiuos, Brewer, and Peja??? Interesting to say the least

:lol A chucker. :lol Irrelevant all season.

Roddy wasn't on the team last year? He is playing tons of minutes right now? The addition of Chandler when you lose Caron is a huge upgrade? Brewer/Peja make up for that?

[badfish22]

:lol A chucker. :lol Irrelevant all season.

Roddy wasn't on the team last year? He is playing tons of minutes right now? The addition of Chandler when you lose Caron is a huge upgrade? Brewer/Peja make up for that?

Roddy still isn't playing enough, but what hes playing now is still a massive upgrade over last year when he got DNP-CDed almost every game.

[DPG21920]

Roddy still isn't playing enough, but what hes playing now is still a massive upgrade over last year when he got DNP-CDed almost every game.

Sure, but it's no where near enough to make a difference. Also, you still don't know what you get from him. He has been up and down.

[# 1 Troll]

:lol A chucker. :lol Irrelevant all season.

Roddy wasn't on the team last year? He is playing tons of minutes right now? The addition of Chandler when you lose Caron is a huge upgrade? Brewer/Peja make up for that?

Now you're getting it. Listen, I know as a Spurs fan the hard reality that set in today hurt, but you are vastly overrating this team if you think Dallas and LA aren't the two best teams out West. Dallas won't beat em but they have the best chance and are better than SA, considering SA lives and dies by the three and the defense is a joke. That record has really gone to Spurs fans head

[# 1 Troll]

And as far as Tim Duncan goes, I don't know what Spurs fans are really expecting once the playoffs start but unless it's Prime Duncan it won't be nearly enough to make up for the lack of true size inside

[Nick Manning]

I really hope the Spurs and Mavs meet again...this site won't be the same w/o the annual pissing match

[DPG21920]

Me too, because that likely means it's a Mavs/Spurs WCF and I'll take it :lol

That would be amazing to see.

[Nick Manning]

If the Mavs and Spurs are playing in the WCF then 29 teams will be very happy :lol

[ElNono]

This would be terrible, but I can see it happening. ZBo going nuts in the first round, then Memphis just happy to be there against the Lakeshow in the second round... FML

[DPG21920]

Findog, Mono. Hi.

[Sean Cagney]

that's what we've all been saying about the spurs. neither team is doing shit

Neither is your Hornets.

[DPG21920]

Neither is your Hornets.

no!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Nick Manning]

gnsf just can't be saved from themselves

[redzero]

Neither is your Hornets.

http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/8332/facepalmfk.gif (http://img5.imageshack.us/i/facepalmfk.gif/)

[Sean Cagney]

SA is not better than Dallas or LA( as if that's worth a debate after today)

Dallas just got beat at HOME! Does that prove a thing for them being up 17 and losing? What did that prove today? LA is still the team to beat no doubt, but Dallas has not proven to be better than either of them.

[mavsfan1000]

Tyson Chandler is definitely needed. His athleticism can do a lot of things for our team.

[Axe Murderer]

on a side note, i think its hilarious that we barely lose 1 game and it's Golden State all over again.

The Mavs have won 18 of their last 20 and both of their losses were by 1 point on buzzer beaters. One of the games was a fluky shot, and the other was by a role player all of a sudden turning into MJ. If both those shots are missed, the Mavs are on a 20 game win streak :lol

[j.dizzle]

A team that shoots as many jumpshots as the Mavs will not be winning a title anytime soon. You guys cant rely on Terry to show up to more than 2-3 games in a playoff series. Dirk can only do so much.

[Rummpd]

Mavs, are very talented on paper but have by far the lowest point differnential of the true contending team and even taking into consideration that Dirk was out or recovering for 10 games that does not make up for the fact their point differntial is less than 4

Bottom line their point differential 0.394 www.nba.com does predict limited playoff success historically - Mavs are therefore the most likely top team to lose a first game series based on that fact, plus their history of choking certainly does not help them.

[Brazil]

on a side note, i think its hilarious that we barely lose 1 game and it's Golden State all over again.

The Mavs have won 18 of their last 20 and both of their losses were by 1 point on buzzer beaters. One of the games was a fluky shot, and the other was by a role player all of a sudden turning into MJ. If both those shots are missed, the Mavs are on a 20 game win streak :lol

I do agree, Memphis could be somehow tough to deal with but mavs got that in max 6 games.

Dallas is playing good bb with TC, I really like this addition. IMO a dallas / spurs serie would be epic once again, the winner will have to solve two main issues IMO the rebounding part and I think mavs have a good shot to dominate that point and the backcourt and I do think spurs one is better but Roddy could be a factor. Nevertheless Roddy is young he played a hell of a serie last year with very limited minutes it's another thing to be able to do that with meaningful POs minutes.

For me Lakers are the team to beat and I do consider Dallas/Spurs a toss up but HCA is giving spurs the advantage.

[Dr House]

Bottom line their point differential 0.394 www.nba.com does predict limited playoff success historically

You know what else predicts limited playoff success historically?

3 point chucking teams that play no defense

[monosylab1k]

on a side note, i think its hilarious that we barely lose 1 game and it's Golden State all over again.

The Mavs have won 18 of their last 20 and both of their losses were by 1 point on buzzer beaters. One of the games was a fluky shot, and the other was by a role player all of a sudden turning into MJ. If both those shots are missed, the Mavs are on a 20 game win streak :lol

History repeating itself.

Back in 07 the Mavs had a 17 game win streak, then got their ass beat by GS. A few people pointed out how much GS had owned Dallas the past few seasons, and then the Mavs and alot of Mavs homers gave a very butthurt "Oh, so 1 loss and now we suck and can't beat GS in the playoffs? Pfffffffffftttttttttt!!!!!!!!!"

[Gordon Hayward]

the best offensive player in the game and a plethora of 3 and 4 options is how. you act like the mavs don't have a deep bench as well, plus smart players and good ball movement. any given night dirk, jet, or beaubois can get 20 plus or 2 of the 3. we don't have quite enough to go all the way but to say you don't know how we are winning regular season games is a bit dense.

Roddy has scored 20 points or more three times in his entire career.

[Axe Murderer]

History repeating itself.

Back in 07 the Mavs had a 17 game win streak, then got their ass beat by GS. A few people pointed out how much GS had owned Dallas the past few seasons, and then the Mavs and alot of Mavs homers gave a very butthurt "Oh, so 1 loss and now we suck and can't beat GS in the playoffs? Pfffffffffftttttttttt!!!!!!!!!"

We'll see scrah

That GS team had a special type of ownage of Dallas. They blew us out damn near every time we played and I think beat us like 8 out of the last 9 times before those playoffs. I knew we'd have major problems against them but admittedly i didn't think we'd actually lose to them since that had never been done before. (LOL Chokericks)

I do think there's a team in the 1st round that has a chance of beating us and it's not the Grizzlies IMO

[John Basedow]

It's crazy to see the level of PTSD that the GSW series still has on Mavfan's psyche...it was 4 years ago, people

[John Basedow]

We'll see scrah

That GS team had a special type of ownage of Dallas. They blew us out damn near every time we played and I think beat us like 8 out of the last 9 times before those playoffs. I knew we'd have major problems against them but admittedly i didn't think we'd actually lose to them since that had never been done before. (LOL Chokericks)

I do think there's a team in the 1st round that has a chance of beating us and it's not the Grizzlies IMO

Hornets, eh?

[Gordon Hayward]

It's crazy to see the level of PTSD that the GSW series still has on Mavfan's psyche...it was 4 years ago, people


It was the final straw that broke the camel's back.

[Axe Murderer]

Hornets, eh?

Yep. Hornets could definitely bounce Dallas but I don't see them dropping below the 5th seed anyway

[Pelicans78]

Yep. Hornets could definitely bounce Dallas but I don't see them dropping below the 5th seed anyway

Really? Because they were the 7th seed before winning last night. They're definitely not a shoe-in for making the playoffs more or less getting the 5th seed.

[Axe Murderer]

Really? Because they were the 7th seed before winning last night. They're definitely not a shoe-in for making the playoffs more or less getting the 5th seed.

tbh, didn't know that. I checked like a week ago and they were the 5th seed.

[Axe Murderer]

Still tho, I think they end up with the 5th seed as long as Paul isn't out for too long

[sribb43]

Mavs are fucked against the Blazers, Nuggets, grizzlies. Teams that have a ton of athletes give mavs so many problems. Spurs, Lakers, Suns, Horents are all better matchups for the mavs

[Booharv]

no they weren't, they got swept in 09

They lost 4-1. Ginobili didn't play, so it would have been closer. Mavs still probably would have won though imo.

[Pelicans78]

Still tho, I think they end up with the 5th seed as long as Paul isn't out for too long

They do have tie-breakers over Denver, Portland, and Memphis right now and have home games remaining against those teams as well. 5th seed would be the best case scenario for the Hornets in the playoffs. They would get to avoid the Lakers and have relatively easier matchups against OKC and maybe the Spurs.

[Dirk´s tounge]

Tim, even in a reduced role is still 10x the post player that either Tyson or Dirk is.
:lmao

[Kori Ellis]

You went to the trouble of creating that big, disgusting signature but couldn't spell tongue right in your user name?

[John Basedow]

Mavs are fucked against the Blazers, Nuggets, grizzlies. Teams that have a ton of athletes give mavs so many problems. Spurs, Lakers, Suns, Horents are all better matchups for the mavs

crofl

Mavs own the Blazers, and the Nuggets are not a threat in the playoffs w/o Melo. You need a go-to-guy when it counts, and the Nuggs just have a bunch of 2's and 3's. Dallas would beat them in 5.

As for Memphis, they're going to be a pain in the ass for anybody, but realistically they are one and done.

Hornets could beat the Spurs or Mavs imo, but not the Thunder or Lakers. It's all about matchups

[Gordon Hayward]

:lmao

Head-to-head stats(per game averages - 3 games this season):

Duncan: 16 ppg, 10.3 rpg

Chandler: 11.7 ppg, 7 rpg

[sribb43]

crofl

Mavs own the Blazers, and the Nuggets are not a threat in the playoffs w/o Melo. You need a go-to-guy when it counts, and the Nuggs just have a bunch of 2's and 3's. Dallas would beat them in 5.

As for Memphis, they're going to be a pain in the ass for anybody, but realistically they are one and done.

Hornets could beat the Spurs or Mavs imo, but not the Thunder or Lakers. It's all about matchups

Nuggets have a bunch of 1's 2's and 3's that would destroy the mavs midget/slow backcourt. Felton, Lawson, Gallo, Smith, Chandler and even Affalo would hurt the mavs. Not saying the mavs would lose but it will be a lot harder than you think

Don't give the response that we now have Corey "Tenacious D" Brewer and he will shut everyone down all by himself

[Gordon Hayward]

Head-to-head stats(per game averages - 3 games this season):

Duncan: 16 ppg, 10.3 rpg

Chandler: 11.7 ppg, 7 rpg

Average defensive rating over those three games(estimate of points allowed per 100 possessions):

Duncan: 100

Chandler: 109.3

[John Basedow]

Nuggets have a bunch of 1's 2's and 3's that would destroy the mavs midget/slow backcourt. Felton, Lawson, Gallo, Smith, Chandler and even Affalo would hurt the mavs. Not saying the mavs would lose but it will be a lot harder than you think

Don't give the response that we now have Corey "Tenacious D" Brewer and he will shut everyone down all by himself

Fuck Corey Brewer, he's not the problem or the solution. When I said 2's and 3's I wasn't referring to SG or SF, but options. Who is Denver going to in the clutch? They have no No. 1 option.

They needed 42 points from Melo to even be in the game at the end in their last meeting. Dallas in five.

[sribb43]

Fuck Corey Brewer, he's not the problem or the solution. When I said 2's and 3's I wasn't referring to SG or SF, but options. Who is Denver going to in the clutch? They have no No. 1 option.

They needed 42 points from Melo to even be in the game at the end in their last meeting. Dallas in five.

Well if there raping the Mavs up and down the court bc of the mavs shitty D, that shit won't matter. Mavs in 6 but very difficult games.

Glad we can agree Brewer ain't shit

[Gordon Hayward]

Well if there raping the Mavs up and down the court bc of the mavs shitty D, that shit won't matter. Mavs in 6 but very difficult games.

Glad we can agree Brewer ain't shit


Dirk's not letting the Mavs lose to the Nuggets. Even with Melo gone they're one of the most mentally weak teams in the NBA.

[DPG21920]

:lmao

Good argument :tu

[John Basedow]

Well if there raping the Mavs up and down the court bc of the mavs shitty D, that shit won't matter

You're being overly pessimistic due to recent playoff failures. Denver, Memphis, Portland, Phoenix, Houston, and Utah will have no chance against Dallas in the playoffs (should some of those teams happen to make it). NONE. New Orleans has an outside chance but even then I see Dallas prevailing in 6 or 7.

The PTSD is killing you brah. I wouldn't start worrying until the Lakers or Spurs came to town

[redzero]

Dirk's not letting the Mavs lose to the Nuggets. Even with Melo gone they're one of the most mentally weak teams in the NBA.

Dirk went off against the Nuggets in 09 and the Mavs still lost in five. However, this isn't 2009, so the Mavs will probably win. With Chauncey around, the Nuggets were motivated for the first two rounds of the playoffs. And then the WCF happened.

[sribb43]

Dirk's not letting the Mavs lose to the Nuggets. Even with Melo gone they're one of the most mentally weak teams in the NBA.

I'm not worried about Dirk, it's the rest of the mental midgets on this team that once again could bury this team

[Gordon Hayward]

I'm not worried about Dirk, it's the rest of the mental midgets on this team that once again could bury this team

I doubt the Nuggets will look as formidable once the excitement of playing as a "team" wears off and they realize they're going to Ty Lawson and Wilson Chandler for clutch baskets down the stretch.

But i see your point. I'd be pretty worried about Jason Terry, too.

[stretch]

You're being overly pessimistic due to recent playoff failures. Denver, Memphis, Portland, Phoenix, Houston, and Utah will have no chance against Dallas in the playoffs (should some of those teams happen to make it). NONE. New Orleans has an outside chance but even then I see Dallas prevailing in 6 or 7.

The PTSD is killing you brah. I wouldn't start worrying until the Lakers or Spurs came to town

Pretty much nailed it on the head. Those are the only two teams to seriously worry about.

[Johnny RIngo]

It's not even close. Tyson's interior defense is far superior to Duncans at this point in his career. Chandler is the Maverick's MVP (besides Dirk of course).

Wrong.

Duncan ranks 11th in the league in Defensive win shares. The only bigs ahead of him are Howard(1st), Garnett(2nd), Bogut(5th), and Gasol(10th). Chandler, meanwhile, is ranked 33rd among all players.

[Ghazi]

monostradamus: good call on th Mavs going 35-47 :lol

[Axe Murderer]

Wrong.

Duncan ranks 11th in the league in Defensive win shares. The only bigs ahead of him are Howard(1st), Garnett(2nd), Bogut(5th), and Gasol(10th). Chandler, meanwhile, is ranked 33rd among all players.

:lmao

You know you're reaching when you use "defensive win shares" as a stat to compare players. What the fuck does that even mean?

[DPG21920]

:lmao

You know you're reaching when you use "defensive win shares" as a stat to compare players. What the fuck does that even mean?

:lol How is using statistics reaching? Even if you don't like/understand defensive win-shares (lol), almost all defensive metrics, like I explained, have Tim just as good if not better defensively than TC.

[Axe Murderer]

:lol How is using statistics reaching? Even if you don't like/understand defensive win-shares (lol), almost all defensive metrics, like I explained, have Tim just as good if not better defensively than TC.

this was last year but still funny :lol

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=153760

[DPG21920]

Sure, any one stat when used in isolation is going to be flawed. Obviously, any stat that has Dirk anywhere near the top defensively is stupid. Point is, almost EVERY defensive statistic had TD ahead of TC.

[Johnny RIngo]

this was last year but still funny :lol

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=153760

Nice job cherry-picking a post from November(when there was less than a month's worth of data for the year). Dirk didn't finish anywhere near the top ten that year btw. Howard was number 1 at the end of the season.

And I only pointed out the Def WS numbers because another poster already showed that Duncan was ahead of Chandler in regards to Def Rtg. Factor in Team Defense (where the Spurs are ranked 7th compared to 11th for the Mavs) as well as individual stats(2 blks/6.7 Drbs/1.6 fouls for TD while Chandler's at 1 blk/6.6 Drbs/3.1 fouls in comparable minutes) and there's no way you can say that Chandler's the better defensive anchor.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

How do Mav fans feel about a Boston matchup? And your chances against the Lakers?

You guys seem to be matchup pretty well with Boston, that's for sure.

[Axe Murderer]

Nice job cherry-picking a post from November(when there was less than a month's worth of data for the year). Dirk didn't finish anywhere near the top ten that year btw. Howard was number 1 at the end of the season.

And I only pointed out the Def WS numbers because another poster already showed that Duncan was ahead of Chandler in regards to Def Rtg. Factor in Team Defense (where the Spurs are ranked 7th compared to 11th for the Mavs) as well as individual stats(2 blks/6.7 Drbs/1.6 fouls for TD while Chandler's at 1 blk/6.6 Drbs/3.1 fouls in comparable minutes) and there's no way you can say that Chandler's the better defensive anchor.

lol typing out paragraphs when I wasn't even arguing.

I just thought it was funny

[Roger Freemason Jr.]

Tbh, the Mavericks are flying lower than the Spurs below the radar, and as of right now, The Spurs still have no answer for Dirk, McDyess guards him okay but he's Dirk, & McDyess is McDyess. I hope it's Mavericks & Spurs in the WCF, entertaining and intense, I wouldn't mind seeing the Lakers-Spurs series though. But yeah, Spurs need to procure more size, as much as I hate to admit it.

[HornetLoveJones]

Nigga you flat out wrong