Pucker factor 10!! Saudi police open fire at protest

[RandomGuy]

You think oil is expensive now, you haven't seen anything compared to what would happen if Saudi Arabia implodes.

Haven't checked oil prices this afternoon, but I would be willing to bet this shock to the collective brain of traders will cause a jump.--RG


-----------------------------
by SARAH EL DEEB, Associated Press Sarah El Deeb, Associated Press – 41 mins ago
CAIRO – Saudi police opened fire Thursday to disperse a protest in the mainly Shiite east, leaving at least one man injured, as the government struggled to prevent a wave of unrest sweeping the Arab world from reaching the kingdom.

The rare violence raised concern about a crackdown ahead of more planned protests after Friday prayers in different cities throughout the oil-rich kingdom. The pro-Western monarchy is concerned protests could open footholds for Shiite powerhouse Iran and has accused foreigners of stoking the protests, which are officially forbidden.

Despite the ban and a warning that security forces will act against them, protesters demanding the release of political prisoners took to the streets for a second day in the eastern city of Qatif. Several hundred protesters, some wearing face masks to avoid being identified, marched after dark asking for "Freedom for prisoners."

Police, who were lined up opposite the protesters, fired percussion bombs, followed by gunfire, causing the crowd to scatter, a witness said, speaking on condition of anonymity for fear of government retaliation.

The witness said at least one protester was injured and lifted by others to a car for treatment. It was not clear how the protester was injured.

Scores of protesters in Qatif had also marched in the city streets Wednesday night.

Mainly Sunni Saudi Arabia has struggled to stay ahead of the unrest that has led to the ouster of the Egyptian and Tunisian leaders in recent months.

Last month, the ultra-conservative government announced an unprecedented economic package worth an estimated $36 billion that will give Saudis interest-free home loans, unemployment assistance and debt forgiveness. It also has reiterated that demonstrations are forbidden in the kingdom because they contradict Islamic laws and society's values and said security forces were authorized to act against anyone violating the ban.

So far the demonstrations have been small and concentrated in the east among Shiites demanding the release of detainees. But activists have been emboldened by other uprisings have set up Facebook groups calling for protests in the capital, Riyadh, on Friday to demand democratic reforms. One such group garnered more than 30,000 supporters.

The spread of calls for protests, particularly outside the generally tense eastern Saudi Arabia, home to the country's Shiite minority, has prompted government officials to issue strong warnings that it will act against activists taking to the streets.

Amnesty International called on Saudi authorities to reverse the ban on peaceful protests in the kingdom.

Philip Luther, a spokesman for the international rights group, said authorities should address the need for major human rights reforms and heed the growing calls for change instead of trying to intimidate protesters.

"Reports that the Saudi authorities plan to deploy troops to police upcoming demonstrations are very worrying," he said.

The Interior Ministry has banned demonstrations, saying they contradict Islamic laws and society's values and adding that some people have tried to go around the law to "achieve illegitimate aims."

"Reform cannot be achieved through protests ... The best way to achieve demands is through national dialogue," Saudi Foreign Minister Prince Saudi al-Faisal said Wednesday.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110310/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_saudi_protests

(edit)

To be clear:
This seems to be fairly minor, for now. No indications that protests/violence will spread, other than the fact mentioned in the article that more widespread protests are planned.

I guess we all get to take that rollercoaster ride, if/when. :spless:

[CosmicCowboy]

The real pucker factor is in the White House. How can Obama condemn Gaddafi and ignore Saudi Arabia shooting protestors? No way he can afford to shit on Abdulla and support the Shiites...

[ChumpDumper]

The real pucker factor is in the White House. How can Obama condemn Gaddafi and ignore Saudi Arabia shooting protestors?Easy, it's Saudi Arabia and not Gaddafi.

[RandomGuy]

The real pucker factor is in the White House. How can Obama condemn Gaddafi and ignore Saudi Arabia shooting protestors? No way he can afford to shit on Abdulla and support the Shiites...

If you read the article, no protestors were actually shot.

Yet.

No one really knows if the gunfire was rubber bullets, into the air or what as of now.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

Time to grab your ankles, folks. I hope Obama can act presidential over this within the week. That is if he has no parties planned for today.

[RandomGuy]

The real pucker factor is in the White House...

... and Beijing. They get a helluva lot more oil from Saudi than we do.

[CosmicCowboy]

If you read the article, no protestors were actually shot.

Yet.

No one really knows if the gunfire was rubber bullets, into the air or what as of now.

I've been calling this for weeks but you guys weren't listening...First Bahrain, then Saudi Arabia. It's the Sunni/Shiite deal all over again.

[ChumpDumper]

Time to grab your ankles, folks. I hope Obama can act presidential over this within the week. That is if he has no parties planned for today.What do you expect a president to do at this point?

Be specific.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

If you read the article, no protestors were actually shot.

Yet.

No one really knows if the gunfire was rubber bullets, into the air or what as of now.

:lol you're a work of art.
Would you be that calm if that happened at a tea party? <-----rhetorical

:lol geez They're fucking shooting at protesters. Maybe they should break out a good cowboy poetry book as they shoot their own :lmao

[CosmicCowboy]

What do you expect a president to do at this point?

Be specific.

I agree with Chump. We can't do shit.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

I agree with Chump. We can't do shit.

I know. Just wanted chump to use his "?" :lol

[boutons_deux]

"act presidential"

That's the classic "Let's You And Him Go Fight". I expect you to enlist as soon as Barry invades more countries. AND have your income tax rate go up 25% to pay for it.

UCA is already bogged own in 2 wars it can't/won't extract itself from, for $100B+ per year.

Unlike Poppie Bush who encouraged the Marsh Shiites to rise up against Saddam and then turned his back as they were slaughtered, UCA hasn't encouraged any of these revolutionaries. They were inflamed by a Tunisian kid inflaming himself.

It looks like Khadafi's gonna slaughter Libyan revolutionaries, which will be an excellent lesson for other countries' revolutionaries not to do anthing.

No surprise, the same neo-cons who lied the UCA into Iraq are calling for Barry to attack Kadafi.

[RandomGuy]

I've been calling this for weeks but you guys weren't listening...First Bahrain, then Saudi Arabia. It's the Sunni/Shiite deal all over again.

Not sure if anyone here really expressed any strong doubts about that.

I think it is more likely than not that Saudi Arabia will probably escape this without too much radical change or protests.

Not probable, mind you, but it is the most likely of outcomes IMO.

[ChumpDumper]

Not sure if anyone here really expressed any strong doubts about that.

I think it is more likely than not that Saudi Arabia will probably escape this without too much radical change or protests.

Not probable, mind you, but it is the most likely of outcomes IMO.That's what I thought. Just not enough Shiites.

[RandomGuy]

:lol you're a work of art.
Would you be that calm if that happened at a tea party? <-----rhetorical

:lol geez They're fucking shooting at protesters. Maybe they should break out a good cowboy poetry book as they shoot their own :lmao

Please show me where in the article it says they shot anything more than stun bombs at the protestors.

Reading fail.

[CosmicCowboy]

The Shiites protesting in Saudi Arabia are backed by Iran. Just wait till it really starts getting nasty and Iran shuts down the Persian Gulf to stop Saudi oil shipments.

[MannyIsGod]

Long ass way from anything like that.

[ChumpDumper]

The Shiites protesting in Saudi Arabia are backed by Iran. Just wait till it really starts getting nasty and Iran shuts down the Persian Gulf to stop Saudi oil shipments.I doubt they are that stupid.

[RandomGuy]

opened fire ON protestORS (actively aiming guns at people)

is not

opened fire at protest (gunfire at the location, quite possibly in the air)

It is not safe to assume much at this point. Simply because gunfire was heard, does not imply that either live rounds were heard, nor was that gunfire actively aimed at people.

The reporter very carefully parsed her words.

Grammar, sons, grammar.

[RandomGuy]

The Shiites protesting in Saudi Arabia are backed by Iran. Just wait till it really starts getting nasty and Iran shuts down the Persian Gulf to stop Saudi oil shipments.

Seriously? That's what you are going with?

Iran doing that would cause a full out war, and one Iran would lose badly.

Not even Achmedini-dork is that stupid.

Please provide the evidence that the Shiites in SA are being supported by Iran in some way.

[CosmicCowboy]

I doubt they are that stupid.

They sure might do it short term just as a power play to fuck with everyone. What do they have to lose? They don't actually have to SINK a tanker...they can just fire across the bow and stop them...they are loaded with silkworm missiles and can close the gulf anytime they decide to. Run oil up to $200+ a barrel for a few weeks and starve some concessions out of the Saudi's and then open it back up...

[SnakeBoy]

Haven't checked oil prices this afternoon, but I would be willing to bet this shock to the collective brain of traders will cause a jump.--RG


OIL FUTURES: Crude Lower Despite Reports Of Saudi Protests
http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20110310-713857.html


Maybe the speculators read RG's link and noticed only a few hundred protested but to hype up the story they mention a facebook group has a whole 30K people.

[RandomGuy]

They sure might do it short term just as a power play to fuck with everyone. What do they have to lose? They don't actually have to SINK a tanker...they can just fire across the bow and stop them...they are loaded with silkworm missiles and can close the gulf anytime they decide to. Run oil up to $200+ a barrel for a few weeks and starve some concessions out of the Saudi's and then open it back up...

and you think this is really a possibility?

That reminds me of something you said to me once... what was it... oh yes. "Dumb shit"

What do you think China's reaction to that would be?
or for that matter the rest of the world?

[ChumpDumper]

They sure might do it short term just as a power play to fuck with everyone. What do they have to lose?A bunch of ships, millions to billions through embargoes or sanctions of one kind or another. Internal stability. You know, little things like that.

[RandomGuy]

Maybe the speculators read RG's link and noticed only a few hundred protested but to hype up the story they mention a facebook group has a whole 30K people.

Uh-hun.



Crude futures settled lower Thursday, despite a late-afternoon surge on reports of protests in Saudi Arabia, the world's largest oil exporter.

Do you actually read anything beyond the headlines?

It happened late the day, after a marked decline due to reports of economic softness in China.

Sorry, my "probably" was proved to be "did".

[CosmicCowboy]

and you think this is really a possibility?

That reminds me of something you said to me once... what was it... oh yes. "Dumb shit"

What do you think China's reaction to that would be?
or for that matter the rest of the world?

Anyone that doesn't consider it as a possibility is a dumb shit. I'm not saying it's the probable outcome but Iran is just crazy enough to play a wild card role here. All of North Africa is currently in play and they have made no secret of their long term goal of one big secular state. They would be the hero of the downtrodden masses all across north africa and the middle east if they forced the Saudi King to blink.

[RandomGuy]

A bunch of ships, millions to billions through embargoes or sanctions of one kind or another. Internal stability. You know, little things like that.

The Chinese, a permanent member of the UN Security Council by the way, have expressed some very uncharactoristic misgivings about Iran's nuclear ambitions.

Chinese willingness to put up with Iran's bullshit, especially given their own distrust/problems with muslim uprisings, goes only so far as Iran can supply them oil/gas. Threaten that, and China's interests very instantly align with that of the US, and the rest of the developed world.

Such a move would be considered tantamount to a declaration of war, and would entail a very sharp, to put it mildly, response.

Given that Iran's government absolutely depends on its ability to buy off its poorest through giveaways financed by oil revenues, such a shutdown would cut their own throats, even aside from the firestorm it would create.

[RandomGuy]

Anyone that doesn't consider it as a possibility is a dumb shit. I'm not saying it's the probable outcome but Iran is just crazy enough to play a wild card role here. All of North Africa is currently in play and they have made no secret of their long term goal of one big secular state. They would be the hero of the downtrodden masses all across north africa and the middle east if they forced the Saudi King to blink.

1) Iranians are not Arabs.

2) Iranians are not sunni.

Both of those factors cause Arabs and sunni's to view Iran with a huge amount of distrust, especially given its rather grandiose stated ambitions.

The only way you can present that as feasible or remotely possible, is because you are really, truly, ignorant of how people in that area of the world really think.

It is a possibility in the same sense it is possible that I will win the lottery.

[CosmicCowboy]

The Chinese, a permanent member of the UN Security Council by the way, have expressed some very uncharactoristic misgivings about Iran's nuclear ambitions.

Chinese willingness to put up with Iran's bullshit, especially given their own distrust/problems with muslim uprisings, goes only so far as Iran can supply them oil/gas. Threaten that, and China's interests very instantly align with that of the US, and the rest of the developed world.

Such a move would be considered tantamount to a declaration of war, and would entail a very sharp, to put it mildly, response.

Given that Iran's government absolutely depends on its ability to buy off its poorest through giveaways financed by oil revenues, such a shutdown would cut their own throats, even aside from the firestorm it would create.

You honestly don't think that the Pentagon and NSA are game planning the very scenario I suggested right now? This flood of popular uprisings in north Africa is a huge game changer.

[MannyIsGod]

The Pentagon plans for scenarios that are less likely than you getting a blow job from Jessica Alba.

[RandomGuy]

You honestly don't think that the Pentagon and NSA are game planning the very scenario I suggested right now? This flood of popular uprisings in north Africa is a huge game changer.

I do think that they are doing precisely that. It is their job to consider contingencies, no matter how remote.

That doesn't make those contingencies any more probable/possible than they were before.

I would note that those planners also have plans for what happens when the worst of global warming comes to pass. Yeah, I went there. If you want to make this argument, then you are, in essence buying into AGW.

Is that what you are saying?

[CosmicCowboy]

1) Iranians are not Arabs.

2) Iranians are not sunni.

Both of those factors cause Arabs and sunni's to view Iran with a huge amount of distrust, especially given its rather grandiose stated ambitions.

The only way you can present that as feasible or remotely possible, is because you are really, truly, ignorant of how people in that area of the world really think.

It is a possibility in the same sense it is possible that I will win the lottery.

And you realize that 30% of the Saudis are Shiites? Mostly in the east, where most of the OIL is? The extremism of the shiites seems to have jumped many cultural and geographic boundaries. The fact that the Iranians are persian and not Arab may not be as big an obstacle as you think.

[RandomGuy]

And you realize that 30% of the Saudis are Shiites? Mostly in the east, where most of the OIL is? The extremism of the shiites seems to have jumped many cultural and geographic boundaries. The fact that the Iranians are persian and not Arab may not be as big an obstacle as you think.

Yes, I am cognizant of both facts.

Americans in general tend to underestimate the overall level of xenophobia in the rest of the world.

I don't think "the extremism of the shiites" has jumped any boundaries.

Iran has helped certain Shia groups to be sure, but shia have been no more or less extremist than any other devotely religious group in the developing world.

[DarrinS]

Time to grab your ankles, folks. I hope Obama can act presidential over this within the week. That is if he has no parties planned for today.


With all that's going on in the world, team Obama is focused on the important issues, such as

Obama Convenes Bullying Conference, “It’s Not Something We Have To Accept”

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2011/03/convenes-bullying-conference-its-not-something-we-have-to-accept-.html

[CosmicCowboy]

Yes, I am cognizant of both facts.

Americans in general tend to underestimate the overall level of xenophobia in the rest of the world.

I don't think "the extremism of the shiites" has jumped any boundaries.

Iran has helped certain Shia groups to be sure, but shia have been no more or less extremist than any other devotely religious group in the developing world.

You are hilarious. You make the flat statement that the protesters wouldn't trust the Iranians because "Iranians aren't Arabs and aren't Sunnis" and I point out that the people that are protesting are Shia which are 30% of the population, you come right back with "Oh, I knew that"...:lmao

[CosmicCowboy]

With all that's going on in the world, team Obama is focused on the important issues, such as

Obama Convenes Bullying Conference, “It’s Not Something We Have To Accept”

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2011/03/convenes-bullying-conference-its-not-something-we-have-to-accept-.html

He would make a really great first lady.

[RandomGuy]

You are hilarious. You make the flat statement that the protesters wouldn't trust the Iranians because "Iranians aren't Arabs and aren't Sunnis" and I point out that the people that are protesting are Shia which are 30% of the population, you come right back with "Oh, I knew that"...:lmao


Arabs and sunni's ... view Iran with a huge amount of distrust, especially given its rather grandiose stated ambitions.

Reading fail.

Care to try that again?

[DMX7]

This country is a goddamn slave to oil. It is absolutely fucking pathetic.

[RandomGuy]

Anyone that doesn't consider it as a possibility is a dumb shit. I'm not saying it's the probable outcome but Iran is just crazy enough to play a wild card role here. All of North Africa is currently in play and they have made no secret of their long term goal of one big secular state. They would be the hero of the downtrodden masses all across north africa and the middle east if they forced the Saudi King to blink.

You aren't talking about "the protestors" here.

You are talking about what Iran would do.

My response was that Iran would not be quite so admired if that were to happen, for the reason that Iran is viewed with no small amount of distrust.

You lost track of your thought, and then melded this exchange with something to do with the protestors. Hope this helps clear things up a bit.

[RandomGuy]

This country is a goddamn slave to oil. It is absolutely fucking pathetic.

We dug deep and put men on the moon consitantly in 10 years.

If we expended just 1/2 the energy/talent/capital on a project to spur renewable energy in 10 years, we could do it.

Slaves to oil is not altogether inaccurate, IMO.

[CosmicCowboy]

Putting men on the moon was simply applying math, physics, an engineering with a shit load of money.

Now, it's the same guys that understand math, physics, and engineering that are telling you libtards that affordable green renewable energy isn't as easy as you think and you just don't want to hear it...

Throwing money at it like we did on the Apollo project isn't the answer.

[boutons_deux]

"isn't the answer."

and your answer is?

[ChumpDumper]

With all that's going on in the world, team Obama is focused on the important issues, such as

Obama Convenes Bullying Conference, “It’s Not Something We Have To Accept”

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2011/03/convenes-bullying-conference-its-not-something-we-have-to-accept-.htmlTell us what he is supposed to be doing about Saudi Arabia right now, douchebag.


You are hilarious. You make the flat statement that the protesters wouldn't trust the Iranians because "Iranians aren't Arabs and aren't Sunnis" and I point out that the people that are protesting are Shia which are 30% of the population, you come right back with "Oh, I knew that"...:lmaoWhere are you getting this 30% number.

A Pew report from a couple of years ago says 10-15%.

http://pewforum.org/newassets/images/reports/Muslimpopulation/Muslimpopulation.pdf

[CosmicCowboy]

Tell us what he is supposed to be doing about Saudi Arabia right now, douchebag.

Where are you getting this 30% number.

A Pew report from a couple of years ago says 10-15%.

http://pewforum.org/newassets/images/reports/Muslimpopulation/Muslimpopulation.pdf

I have read that same percentage several times recently in reputable news reports. I admit I didn't actually count them myself.

[ChumpDumper]

Guess I'll look more.

[CosmicCowboy]

"isn't the answer."

and your answer is?

Simple. Renewable energy is a LOCAL solution. It's not a global power grid solution. It starts with intelligent building design using natural ventilation for cooling and reduced expectations. The temperature won't always be a constant 72 degrees. Passive solar design for heat, active solar for basic electricity needs. Portable energy for transportation will be the real bitch.

[ChumpDumper]

Saudi Arabia’s own Shias, who account for an estimated 10 per cent of the population http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/17c7e73a-4b54-11e0-b2c2-00144feab49a.html#ixzz1GF9RF7mg


Shias, who are mainly concentrated in the eastern of the country, make up about 10% of the Saudi population.http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12663240

[4>0rings]

Opened fire on protesters.....



































using non-lethal means

[Wild Cobra]

I agree with Chump. We can't do shit.
We shouldn't get involved with this.

We shouldn't support these governments because they are governments of little humane respect. However, I believe the protesters are worse, or should I specify the ones who would come into power. We don't need another late 70's Iran and Iraq. They want to bring sharia law to these countries that don't have it. The protesters don't have the man power to overthrow the governments. We shouldn't help either side. We should just sit back an watch, unless something obviously becomes detrimental to our interests... other than oil. In the end, the winning side will still be selling oil.

[boutons_deux]

what's your solution a renewable replacement for the 70% of oil used for transport fuel.

Very little oil is now used for heating and cooling building. So fantastic improvement in buildings' efficiency won't make a dent in imported oil.

[RandomGuy]

Putting men on the moon was simply applying math, physics, an engineering with a shit load of money.

Now, it's the same guys that understand math, physics, and engineering that are telling you libtards that affordable green renewable energy isn't as easy as you think and you just don't want to hear it...

Throwing money at it like we did on the Apollo project isn't the answer.

It *is* simply a matter of math, physics, and engineering, no different than any other challenge we have faced.

Throwing money at it by forming incubators for companies and technologies to let the private sector figure out which are the best technologies and solutions is entirely the answer.

Building out infrastructure will require capital, just like building out the infrastructure to support space shots was.

The problem with conservatards like you is that you don't seem to grasp how fast technology is moving and how fast the world itself is changing.

You wouldn't know the answer if it walked up and dick-slapped you.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

Please show me where in the article it says they shot anything more than stun bombs at the protestors.

Reading fail.

Well tbh, I didn't read the article. I just went off what you posted.


If you read the article, no protestors were actually shot.

Yet.

No one really knows if the gunfire was rubber bullets, into the air or what as of now. you said protestors were shot then later on stated "gunfire". Shots were being fired. In the fucking air, Up someones ass, in someone's mouth, who knows; Who fucking cares !!!!!! You posted it. Quick being an arrogant know-it-all prick. You remind me of the arrogant know-it-all prick in good will hunting, but a whole lot lamer.

[CosmicCowboy]

It *is* simply a matter of math, physics, and engineering, no different than any other challenge we have faced.

Throwing money at it by forming incubators for companies and technologies to let the private sector figure out which are the best technologies and solutions is entirely the answer.

Building out infrastructure will require capital, just like building out the infrastructure to support space shots was.

The problem with conservatards like you is that you don't seem to grasp how fast technology is moving and how fast the world itself is changing.

You wouldn't know the answer if it walked up and dick-slapped you.

LOL @ the idealistic little "government subsidies for green energy are the answer" pissant.

What was your degree in and what do you do for a living? Mine was engineering and I'm in the business. I work with the new energy efficiency technology.

pissant

[RandomGuy]

LOL @ the idealistic little "government subsidies for green energy are the answer" pissant.

What was your degree in and what do you do for a living? Mine was engineering and I'm in the business. I work with the new energy efficiency technology.

pissant

Meh.

I have little doubt that you may have once had some relevant knowledge or skillsets in this regard. I seem to remember as much.

What I seriously doubt is whether you really have a current knowledge base of everything going on.

People your age have a sad habit of not to keeping their knowledge base current. I have met no few people in their 60's and 70's whose skill sets and levels of knowledge base for what jobs they do/did became very out of date.

The kinds of stupid shit you have said and elsewhere does not lead me to have great confidence in your reasoning capabilities, degree or no.

[RandomGuy]

Well tbh, I didn't read the article. I just went off what you posted.

you said protestors were shot then later on stated "gunfire". Shots were being fired. In the fucking air, Up someones ass, in someone's mouth, who knows; Who fucking cares !!!!!! You posted it. Quick being an arrogant know-it-all prick. You remind me of the arrogant know-it-all prick in good will hunting, but a whole lot lamer.

More reading fail.

I never said protesters were shot, I chose my words rather carefully because there is not a lot of information.

If that makes me a "know it all prick", fine. I don't go off half cocked saying stupid shit without really reading things.

As for "arrogant", I don't quite see how this qualifies.


If you read the article, no protestors were actually shot.

Yet.

No one really knows if the gunfire was rubber bullets, into the air or what as of now.

I generally return what I am given, and didn't call anybody an "idiot" or anything here. I fully reserve the right, however, to call somebody whatever the fuck I want to, if they are openly hostile and/or have no qualms about slinging profanities.

Generally I try not to, but even I have limits to my patience.

Finally, on being a know it all: I read voraciously. I don't make a habit of putting forth things as facts unless I can almost certainly back them up.

If you are insecure about that, it isn't my problem.

[CosmicCowboy]

:lmao:lmao:lmao

Damn, you ARE an arrogant little prick!


Meh.

I have little doubt that you may have once had some relevant knowledge or skillsets in this regard. I seem to remember as much.

What I seriously doubt is whether you really have a current knowledge base of everything going on.

:lmao and you DO have a current knowledge base of "everything going on?"


People your age have a sad habit of not to keeping their knowledge base current. I have met no few people in their 60's and 70's whose skill sets and levels of knowledge base for what jobs they do/did became very out of date.

:lmao

Yeah, 60 is REALLY OLD. Practically SENILE. Totally out of touch with the world. Fucking useless OLD PEOPLE unlike smartass punks like you that probably still live off their OLD PEOPLE parents.


The kinds of stupid shit you have said and elsewhere does not lead me to have great confidence in your reasoning capabilities, degree or no.

:lmao

You took the words right out of my mouth, pissant.

[RandomGuy]

LOL @ the idealistic little "government subsidies for green energy are the answer" pissant.

What was your degree in and what do you do for a living? Mine was engineering and I'm in the business. I work with the new energy efficiency technology.

pissant

Let's get some things clear here, because people like you love to distort other's views in what are known as "strawman" attacks. You don't like thinking that people who disagree with you might be either principled or intelligent, so you take what you think they believe and belittle it in rather dishonest ways.

1) Renewables are not *the* end-all be-all of energy. They will never really account for 100% of our energy needs, at least any time soon.

What they do offer is a way to have "home grown" energy sources that can substantially cut our trade deficit, in no small part caused by energy imports.

We will still need oil, still need coal, and still need nukes for as long as I will probably be alive.

Renewables are poised for some very solid growth in terms of % of our energy mix, simply because they are starting from such a small base %.

Seed research and incubation of technologies and industries has created entire sectors of the economy, and there is some good reason to think that can happen here.

I have no illusions or unrealistic expectations, but I know we can do a helluva lot more than we are doing now to encourage this nascient sector.

[RandomGuy]

:lmao:lmao:lmao

Damn, you ARE an arrogant little prick!

:lmao and you DO have a current knowledge base of "everything going on"


:lmao

Yeah, 60 is REALLY OLD. Practically SENILE. Totally out of touch with the world. Fucking useless OLD PEOPLE unlike smartass punks like you that probably still live off their OLD PEOPLE parents.

:lmao

You took the words right out of my mouth, pissant.

Alright, the "old" crack was mean and unwarranted. I lost my temper a bit.

m7mIy97_rlo

[CosmicCowboy]

Alright, the "old" crack was mean and unwarranted. I lost my temper a bit.


As was my pissant comment. I commend you for using your brain even if I don't always agree with your pronouncements.

My guess is that if there is an earth shaking breakthrough in renewable fuels it's going to come from the genetic engineering/biology side...like a super bug that eats cellulose and shits west texas crude.

[RandomGuy]

As was my pissant comment. I commend you for using your brain even if I don't always agree with your pronouncements.

My guess is that if there is an earth shaking breakthrough in renewable fuels it's going to come from the genetic engineering/biology side...like a super bug that eats cellulose and shits west texas crude.

My data dump that causes me to be fairly bullish about renewables:

There are a lot of recent discoveries that are driving the costs of solar, both PV and thermal, down. Many projects are moving out of the test phases into the "let's see how commercially viable they are" phase. I have been studying the financials and company particulars that I can get my hands on. Have to take "pie in the sky" claims of management with a grain of salt, but there is enough there that *one* of those companies/techs will prove to be a winner.

One of the limits to those techs has been the economies of scale needed to really bring per unit costs down. Investments in Europe and China are changing that. That is one thing that is different today than in the past.

From an engineering standpoint, PV is making some solid efficiency gains due to advances in the chemistry. PV also offers, as you are certainly aware, a lot of benefit due to distributed power schemes.

They are experimenting with two different (that I know of) kinds of photosynthetic microorganisms to make oil fuels.

Wind costs are coming down due to the same economies of scale and investments in transmission capacity to where wind is economical.

Coal is getting sucked up at a rather alarming rate. This leads me to think that prices will go up as demand escalates, and various supplies begin to deplete. Oddly enough, oil prices will contribute to this, as mining and transporting tonnes and tonnes of coal starts edging prices up in some minor way.

Overall per joule costs for renewables are coming down, just as per joule costs for coal/oil/gas will likely go up.

Not saying they will pass each other in terms of which is more/less costly soon, but it is the *relative* costs that determine the mix.

Companies have different capital structures in terms of debt/capital depending on the costs of each, and different countries, have different energy structures/ratios in a similar fashion.


For electric cars:
There are some extremely promising battery technologies that have the potential to really shake things up, such as a sort of "thin film" method of production that could triple energy storage capacity on a per weight basis. This could actually make solar planes a LOT closer to reality.

Companies are investing in carbon composite manufacturing with the intention of taking it down from the "supercar" level to upper end luxury car level, a marked quantum leap that can be plausibly extrapolated into the future to go down the value chain.

I think that reasonable extrapolation of all of these trends leads to the conclusion that we will be using more electricity, and more of that electricity will be renewable. Renewable fuels such as bio-produced deisel may also make for an interesting twist. I don't see ethanol as being really all that competitive, as it takes land/food away from feeding people, and that will really make it much less cost competitive, as demand for food crops to feed people will always compete with demand for crops that are used to make fuel.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

More reading fail.

I never said protesters were shot, I chose my words rather carefully because there is not a lot of information.

If that makes me a "know it all prick", fine. I don't go off half cocked saying stupid shit without really reading things.

As for "arrogant", I don't quite see how this qualifies.


Mea culpa. I didn't check my post before I submitted it. It should've been


Well tbh, I didn't read the article. I just went off what you posted.

you said there were shots, then later on stated "gunfire". Shots were being fired. In the fucking air, Up someones ass, in someone's mouth, who knows; Who fucking cares !!!!!! You posted it. Quick being an arrogant know-it-all prick. You remind me of the arrogant know-it-all prick in good will hunting, but a whole lot lamer.

[SnakeBoy]

What was your degree in and what do you do for a living? Mine was engineering and I'm in the business. I work with the new energy efficiency technology.

pissant

Don't try to out resume RG, he's an insurance salesman so he knows everything.

[RandomGuy]

Don't try to out resume RG, he's an insurance salesman so he knows everything.

Wild Cobra knows more chemistry than I do.

Cosmic definitely knows more engineering than I do.

Manny knows more about weather than I do.

A lot of people here know more about their area of specialty than I do.

That is one of the reasons my outburst against CC is a bit embarrassing, because I am reasonably sure he is pretty good at his job.