Should teacher union contracts make it hard to fire incompetants?

[RandomGuy]

Pretty much a no-brainer, IMO

http://www.hoover.org/publications/hoover-digest/article/7425

We do not need tenure for non-university faculty at our kids' schools.


National Education Association president Bob Chase, undaunted by the news that more than half of Massachusetts teachers had failed their competency tests, characterizes the problem of bad teachers as a matter of “a few bad apples.” But when America’s children returned to the classroom last fall, many of them were instructed by teachers who are not only incompetent but sometimes actively dangerous. And the teachers’ unions make removing them nearly impossible. In recent years, the unions have gone to bat for felons and for teachers who have had sexual relations with their students, as well as for teachers who demonstrably could not teach. For the unions, apparently no apple is so bad that it need be tossed from the barrel.

[Blake]

Is there a specific story of a union that went to bat for a teacher that had sex with a student?

[baseline bum]

Tenure is absolutely critical at the university level, since it allows professors to do controversial research without fear of reprisal. I don't see that it makes sense for teachers though.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Pretty much a no-brainer, IMO

http://www.hoover.org/publications/hoover-digest/article/7425

We do not need tenure for non-university faculty at our kids' schools.

We do not need tenure at our universities either.

[Capt Bringdown]

Tenure is absolutely critical at the university level, since it allows professors to do controversial research without fear of reprisal. I don't see that it makes sense for teachers though.

Why does due process not make sense? You'd be amazed at the kind of things that go on behind the scenes at schools, i.e. the kinds of pressures that can be exerted on teachers by parents and students who aren't used to not getting their way.

Do bad teachers exist? Yes. But on the whole we do not have a conspiracy of bad teachers and their evil unions holding back education in this country. All of this smacks of a witch hunt.

[Wild Cobra]

Tenure is absolutely critical at the university level, since it allows professors to do controversial research without fear of reprisal. I don't see that it makes sense for teachers though.
At tax payer expense?

[Capt Bringdown]

Why should it be easy to fire good teachers?

Due process covers good and bad. And I'd like to see evidence of the claim that unions are going to bat for sex offenders.

[Wild Cobra]

Why should it be easy to fire good teachers?

Due process covers good and bad. And I'd like to see evidence of the claim that unions are going to bat for sex offenders.
I don't think anyone is actually saying it should be easy. It just shouldn't be as hard as it is today. There are too many people, who once they pass a safe point in a union job, become little more than dead weight, because it is nearly impossible to get rid on them.

[Marcus Bryant]

Public pedagogues are overrated, especially if this forum represents a basket of their fruit.

[Winehole23]

Due process covers good and bad. And I'd like to see evidence of the claim that unions are going to bat for sex offenders.If "go to bat" conceivably translates to "provides legal assistance to members," the comment you highlighted is utterly uncontroversial imo

If I have any quibble, it's that the qualification "in recent years" appears to be bogus. Presumably all administrators/teachers/school employees eventually convicted of sex crimes involving students will receive help from their unions pre-conviction, as a matter of course.

Presumption of innocence until found guilty, right?