Tim Duncan leads the NBA in...

[BillMc]

Blocks per foul and it isn't even close.

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/player/_/stat/blocks/sort/blockFoulRatio

That's TD smart and efficient. He should make an All-Defensive Team.

[Rummpd]

He is also near the top in blocks per minute. Not surprising for the man who may have had the greatest block season in history: http://www.48minutesofhell.com/the-value-of-tim-duncans-blocks
Although intuitive in its own right, this information paints a counterintuitive portrait of some of the NBA’s better regarded frontcourt defenders. For instance, “Looking at it this way, Brendon Haywood, who many people think is a very good defender (me included) actually is a less valuable shot blocker than Jermaine O’Neal.”

Huizinga’s paper is titled “The Value of a Blocked Shot in the NBA: From Dwight Howard to Tim Duncan,” and not without good reason, explains Pruiti:

…As [Huizinga] explained, through a series of charts, Tim Duncan has had the best season in history when it came down to value/block with 1.12, meaning he saved 1.12 points with every block and Dwight Howard ended up with the worst season in terms of value/block with with .53 (both came during the 2008 season).

Long ago I noticed that most of Tim Duncan’s blocks came right at the rim, which is why I am so excited to read about Huizinga’s paper. Rather than stoke the debate between traditional scouting and advanced statisticians, it further shows how the conclusions of one can work symbiotically with the visual evidence of the other.



Read more: http://www.48minutesofhell.com/the-value-of-tim-duncans-blocks#ixzz1HFMvcYle


Duncan today, when motivated and rested, is still a plausiby a more effective overall shot blocker than Howard and Chandler - perhaps Ibaka with his super human hops or Bynum with his reach and size can make a case to be more effective but in the playoffs when it counts give me Duncan anytime to at least try to make the right and efficient play.

[Obstructed_View]

Duncan's first team all-defense this year for sure, though he likely won't make any of the teams. Looking at his minutes, his rebounding and block rate, and his team's record, there's a very easy case to make that he's far better than Howard on the defensive end.

[TDMVPDPOY]

the award givers dont give a shit about advance stats

[Obstructed_View]

The award givers don't really watch basketball, that's pretty clear.

[DeadlyDynasty]

This is what makes ST the best B-Ball board on the web. You just can't find unexpected, unintentional humor like this anywhere else.

Bravo, fellas

[Obstructed_View]

Math is hard. BLACK MAMABA.

Yes, I misspelled it on purpose.

[Nathan Explosion]

Duncan's first team all-defense this year for sure, though he likely won't make any of the teams. Looking at his minutes, his rebounding and block rate, and his team's record, there's a very easy case to make that he's far better than Howard on the defensive end.

I heard a former player (might be Mark Jackson) say that we've never seen a player do the things on defense that Dwight does. I said to the tv, in the last 20 years look at DRob and Hakeem before spouting off at the mouth. Hell, you played against both of them.

And that's not even including Wilt and Russell.

Dwight is a good defensive presence in the paint, but I think he's a bit overrated by the media in terms of his defense.

[Hoops Czar]

Where does he rank in Blocks per attempt? Seems to me its a layup drill with or without him in the game

[BillMc]

He is also near the top in blocks per minute. Not surprising for the man who may have had the greatest block season in history: http://www.48minutesofhell.com/the-value-of-tim-duncans-blocks
Although intuitive in its own right, this information paints a counterintuitive portrait of some of the NBA’s better regarded frontcourt defenders. For instance, “Looking at it this way, Brendon Haywood, who many people think is a very good defender (me included) actually is a less valuable shot blocker than Jermaine O’Neal.”

Huizinga’s paper is titled “The Value of a Blocked Shot in the NBA: From Dwight Howard to Tim Duncan,” and not without good reason, explains Pruiti:

…As [Huizinga] explained, through a series of charts, Tim Duncan has had the best season in history when it came down to value/block with 1.12, meaning he saved 1.12 points with every block and Dwight Howard ended up with the worst season in terms of value/block with with .53 (both came during the 2008 season).

Long ago I noticed that most of Tim Duncan’s blocks came right at the rim, which is why I am so excited to read about Huizinga’s paper. Rather than stoke the debate between traditional scouting and advanced statisticians, it further shows how the conclusions of one can work symbiotically with the visual evidence of the other.



Read more: http://www.48minutesofhell.com/the-value-of-tim-duncans-blocks#ixzz1HFMvcYle


Duncan today, when motivated and rested, is still a plausiby a more effective overall shot blocker than Howard and Chandler - perhaps Ibaka with his super human hops or Bynum with his reach and size can make a case to be more effective but in the playoffs when it counts give me Duncan anytime to at least try to make the right and efficient play.

Very nice insightful post. Thanks for the info and the links. :toast:toast:toast

[Strange Botwin]

hit points.

[Cry Havoc]

“Looking at it this way, Brendon Haywood, who many people think is a very good defender

Huh?

[Rummpd]

Huh?


That is directly from the article which is I believe a year or two old.

[Greg Oden]

This is what makes ST the best B-Ball board on the web. You just can't find unexpected, unintentional humor like this anywhere else.

Bravo, fellas

Upstairs is a great place for this. Some of the things said up here is unbelievable.

[DeadlyDynasty]

Math is hard. BLACK MAMABA.

Apparently spelling isn't your strong suit either.

[Obstructed_View]

Apparently spelling isn't your strong suit either.

See the white text under my original post, genius.

[PM5K]

No offense to Tim, but I think some part of it is simply the respect he gets from referees.

[Obstructed_View]

Yes, Timmy has historically gotten away with murder when it comes to the zebras. I attribute much of that to his massive exposure on ESPN and how much the writers love to cover him.

[PM5K]

In all seriousness it's about the MVP's, rings, all defense teams, etc.

If you don't think Tim gets different calls than say Tiago, you're sadly mistaken.

[BillMc]

In all seriousness it's about the MVP's, rings, all defense teams, etc.

If you don't think Tim gets different calls than say Tiago, you're sadly mistaken.

Tim's earned those different calls. Tiago hasn't.

[PM5K]

Tim's earned those different calls. Tiago hasn't.

I'm not saying he hasn't, I'm just saying that if impacts his blocks per foul statistics. It's not JUST because he's a terrific defender that rarely fouls while playing defense.

[Obstructed_View]

In all seriousness it's about the MVP's, rings, all defense teams, etc.

If you don't think Tim gets different calls than say Tiago, you're sadly mistaken.

Tiago? You're saying Duncan gets more respect than a rookie who can't even get PT? I thought we were comparing him to Dwight Howard and Kevin Garnett. You can do better than that. :lol

[8FOR!3]

I think Duncan's a better shot blocker and defender this year than in the past few seasons. He looks like he's timing everything better. I do think he gets vet treatment from the refs, in that some of those blocked shots are going to be fouls if it's someone else doing it. But then again, that doesn't mean that they should be called a foul.

[Axe Murderer]

there's a very easy case to make that he's far better than Howard on the defensive end.

Yeah if you just cherry pick stats which favor Duncan like many of the GNSF's frequently do.

There is such a thing as playing smart and not playing aggressive enough. Duncan is definitely a smart player but there's far too many times where he'll let a guy go for an uncontested dunk. Howard will never do that. Putting a guy on the line is better then letting him go in uncontested.

[cheguevara]

"BLACK MAMABA. "

:lol

[GoodOdor]

Upstairs is a great place for this. Some of the things said up here is unbelievable.

You mean to say you would have traded manu for melo?

lol, clearly you don't know basketball. Spurs are ranked first!!!1111

[DeadlyDynasty]

See the white text under my original post, genius.

Oh snap, you got me:rolleyes

Perhaps you should've added a white-text disclaimer to this gem:


there's a very easy case to make that he's (Duncan's) far better than Howard on the defensive end.

You are a fucking retard. See, I can use sophomoric tactics too!

[Obstructed_View]

Yeah if you just cherry pick stats which favor Duncan like many of the GNSF's frequently do.

I admit that I did indeed cherry pick stats that happen to be the ones most used to determine defensive player of the year, coupled with team success. Nobody said you aren't welcome to cherry pick me some stats to show how much better Howard is than Duncan.


There is such a thing as playing smart and not playing aggressive enough. Duncan is definitely a smart player but there's far too many times where he'll let a guy go for an uncontested dunk. Howard will never do that. Putting a guy on the line is better then letting him go in uncontested.

You're better off going with stats. That should be a little more work than just giving us "far too many times" examples that you pulled out of your ass with no evidence to back them up. Duncan's stoned guys at the rim a number of times this year, far more than in previous years. I don't really know that he's let guys go for dunks any more or less than Howard, but if you can find a "dunks per game" defensive stat, I'm happy to admit that I'm wrong.

[Obstructed_View]

Oh snap, you got me:rolleyes

Perhaps you should've added a white-text disclaimer to this gem:



You are a fucking retard. See, I can use sophomoric tactics too!

Sorry for exposing the fact that the first thing you'd do when I pointed out that you're too fucking stupid to look at stats is to check my spelling. If you'd like to have a discussion about why Duncan's not a good defender, then bring something of substance. If all you're going to do is imply that someone's incorrect just because you're an ass-hurt Laker fan with nothing better to do than troll, then expect sophomoric tactics exposing you as such.

[Greg Oden]

Yes, Timmy has historically gotten away with murder when it comes to the zebras. I attribute much of that to his massive exposure on ESPN and how much the writers love to cover him.

:lmao you can't let the ESPN thing go.

In a world of hype, we just win.

[DeadlyDynasty]

Sorry for exposing the fact that the first thing you'd do when I pointed out that you're too fucking stupid to look at stats is to check my spelling. If you'd like to have a discussion about why Duncan's not a good defender, then bring something of substance. If all you're going to do is imply that someone's incorrect just because you're an ass-hurt Laker fan with nothing better to do than troll, then expect sophomoric tactics exposing you as such.

scro if you think "a case can be made for Duncan being better than Howard as a defender," then you should shoot your dick off so your idiotic seed has no chance of contaminating the rest of the world. If it's too late and you already have kids, then please--euthanize them, then yourself.


crofl...Spurfan homerism knows no bounds.

[DeadlyDynasty]

:lmao you can't let the ESPN thing go.

In a world of hype, we just win.

OV has a library of jaw-dropping idiotic posts lately. Poor fucker has gone off the deep end since the Lakers beat that ass.

[Greg Oden]

I love the Spurs forum. They get together with a bunch of like minded retarded individuals and let it rip.

[Hoops Czar]

I love the Spurs forum. They get together with a bunch of like minded retarded individuals and let it rip.

Pot, meet Kettle.

Just a question... How much time do spend a day do you spend staring into Oden's bare chest? Does that get you off?

[Greg Oden]

sorry, I don't get together with other Portland fans and claim our center is possibly better defensively than Howard.

[DeadlyDynasty]

sorry, I don't get together with other Portland fans and claim our center is possibly better defensively than Howard.

Yes, but I'm sure if I used advanced metrics/Hollinger bullshit over the 11 career games he's played and pro-rated his stats over a 3-year span, he'd easily be better than Howard.

Oden>Howard.

It's all in the math. Prove me wrong, scro. Do it.

[DeadlyDynasty]

Stay tuned next week as OV attempts to convince us all Manu>Jordan.

Should be the best episode yet.

:corn:

[Cane]

Yea TD's shotblocking efficiency and defensive IQ is nearly extinct in today's NBA. Dwight's a phenom of an athlete but 1/4 of his blocks are god damn goaltends and he loves to send the ball to the stands than to his own teammate. If only Duncan was still quick and mobile :( However if D12 ever matures his game then he'll be an even greater defensive anchor than he is now :wow (which he's the best nowadays but he's still weak mentally)

[Hoops Czar]

Yea TD's shotblocking efficiency and defensive IQ is nearly extinct in today's NBA. Dwight's a phenom of an athlete but 1/4 of his blocks are god damn goaltends and he loves to send the ball to the stands than to his own teammate. If only Duncan was still quick and mobile :( However if D12 ever matures his game then he'll be an even greater defensive anchor than he is now :wow (which he's the best nowadays but he's still weak mentally)

Finally....Not too many commonsense posters upstairs nowadays...

[Obstructed_View]

scro if you think "a case can be made for Duncan being better than Howard as a defender," then you should shoot your dick off so your idiotic seed has no chance of contaminating the rest of the world. If it's too late and you already have kids, then please--euthanize them, then yourself.


crofl...Spurfan homerism knows no bounds.

If it's so easy to refute, then refute it. The Spurs have the best record in the league, and Duncan's putting up amazingly efficient numbers defensively, as good as he's played in several years when you actually look at the bare stats, and even better when you start to look at how those defensive numbers influence the outcome of the game. Sorry you don't like that, but seriously, if you can't come up with anything better than "crofl scro u should die homer lol" then you should stay down at the kid's table so the grownups can debate basketball.

[BillMc]

The Spurs have the best record in the league, and Duncan's putting up amazingly efficient numbers defensively, as good as he's played in several years when you actually look at the bare stats, and even better when you start to look at how those defensive numbers influence the outcome of the game.

The man speaks the truth!:flag:

[lefty]

Powerful jinx thread

TBH

[Obstructed_View]

Powerful jinx thread

TBH

Hey, not my fault. I'm just defending my basketball hyperbole. :lol