View Full Version : I've officially seen/heard it all now...
DeadlyDynasty
03-21-2011, 04:32 PM
Duncan's first team all-defense this year for sure, though he likely won't make any of the teams. Looking at his minutes, his rebounding and block rate, and his team's record, there's a very easy case to make that he's far better than Howard on the defensive end.
Discuss.
BlackSwordsMan
03-21-2011, 04:36 PM
there's a very easy case to make that he's far better than Howard on the defensive end.
JJ Hickson
03-21-2011, 04:42 PM
:lmao spurfan gonna spurfan
Muser
03-21-2011, 04:43 PM
lol dumbass posters
manufan10
03-21-2011, 04:44 PM
lol dumbass posters
Leave DeadlyDynasty alone. He doesn't know any better.
:lol
Hoops Czar
03-21-2011, 04:46 PM
Of course his block rate is high... The defenders attack the paint on nearly every possession. I could make a case for Duncan in his prime but Howard is Orlando's defensive anchor and much better at this point in time.
Howard really isn't all that great of a defender technically, he's just effective as fuck because of his ability.
If he ever starts thinking the game, doing his work early and knows how, when and where to position himself best at all times to defend without needing his athleticism, watch the fuck out.
But he's effective and probably the most dominant defensive force going with his ability. He's still got so much more room to improve as a basketball player, I think how effective he is gets lost on people.
GoodOdor
03-21-2011, 04:47 PM
is that the same guy who said he wouldn't trade manu for melo?
P.s you'd really be surprised at how common such a post is upstairs. It's basically the spurs version of lakergrounds there.
I wouldn't trade Manu for Melo, not at this stage.
Melo's a bitchmade talent. He'll keep you good enough to stay in the conversation... and bitchmade enough to have you dismissed from that conversation.
rayjayjohnson
03-21-2011, 04:59 PM
nba seniors first team more like.
spursfans need to face it - jim duncan is over the hill. can't you just accept it and thank him for the rings he won you?
GoodOdor
03-21-2011, 04:59 PM
I wouldn't trade Manu for Melo, not at this stage.
Melo's a bitchmade talent. He'll keep you good enough to stay in the conversation... and bitchmade enough to have you dismissed from that conversation.
GNSF strikes again.
Manu>melo, per the course.
rayjayjohnson
03-21-2011, 04:59 PM
I wouldn't trade Manu for Melo, not at this stage.
Melo's a bitchmade talent. He'll keep you good enough to stay in the conversation... and bitchmade enough to have you dismissed from that conversation.
true tbh
GNSF strikes again.
Manu>melo, per the course.
We playin a 1-on-1 game?
Cuz if not, the Spurs at this stage of the game are better off with Manu than Melo.
Da troof....
Muser
03-21-2011, 05:02 PM
nba seniors first team more like.
spursfans need to face it - jim duncan is over the hill. can't you just accept it and thank him for the rings he won you?
It wasn't funny when luva tried this shtick and he's one of the best trolls on ST, a shitty poster like you isn't gonna make it funny.
LnGrrrR
03-21-2011, 05:04 PM
Discuss.
No.
(I mean, no to the argument, not to the OP.)
Might as well try to argue that a week consists of 8 days.
rayjayjohnson
03-21-2011, 05:06 PM
It wasn't funny when luva tried this shtick and he's one of the best trolls on ST, a shitty poster like you isn't gonna make it funny.
im not trying to be funny.
he's old, he used to be great.
GoodOdor
03-21-2011, 05:07 PM
We playin a 1-on-1 game?
Cuz if not, the Spurs at this stage of the game are better off with Manu than Melo.
Da troof....
Okay bro.
Manu>melo.
Manu>dirk
Manu>kobe.
Par the GNSF course.
DeadlyDynasty
03-21-2011, 05:10 PM
No.
(I mean, no to the argument, not to the OP.)
Might as well try to argue that a week consists of 8 days.
YtuybFrq7Rw
:toast
Okay bro.
Manu>melo.
Manu>dirk
Manu>kobe.
Par the GNSF course.
That's exactly what I said.
Great post bro, even cooler story, bro. :tu
stretch
03-21-2011, 05:22 PM
lol OV
lol faggot
PGDynasty24
03-21-2011, 06:22 PM
bhahahaha. Bynum is a far better defensive anchor than Duncan
Kyle Orton
03-21-2011, 06:29 PM
OV is a GNSF with 20,000+ posts. He might be the godfather of GNSFs.
LnGrrrR
03-21-2011, 06:39 PM
YtuybFrq7Rw
:toast
I was hoping someone would post that. :lol
"Your Honor, this song proves that there was once an eighth day in the week! The Beatles, a very famous band, have given HISTORICAL AUTHENTICITY to an eighth day!
Therefore, Duncan > Howard."
Howard is sadly > Tim at this stage of the game, but the Manu or Melo on the Spurs is a much different argument.
I'd probably take Melo just based on age and raw talent, but anyone who realizes that it takes a team of winners to ring knows it's a much closer debate than Melo vs. Manu 1v1.
DPG21920
03-21-2011, 06:46 PM
I wouldn't trade Manu for Melo either. Not now.
ElNono
03-21-2011, 06:57 PM
Lies!!!!
Frederico Gayshilusku is better center all time!
Euroleague > NBA!
Rummpd
03-21-2011, 07:36 PM
Bring it on haters and those that don't understand advanced stats: Duncan even this year blocks more shots per minute and rebounds at nearly the rate of Howard - Duncan is also a far smarter defender, and while he does not have Howard's hops has at least as long as reach:
Not surprising Duncan historically far greater than D. Howard in shot blocking effectiveness - which is not the same as just blocking shots, but Duncan is also top 9 all time in that too
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
See the following link:
Not surprising for the man who may have had the greatest block season in history: http://www.48minutesofhell.com/the-v...duncans-blocks
Although intuitive in its own right, this information paints a counterintuitive portrait of some of the NBA’s better regarded frontcourt defenders. For instance, “Looking at it this way, Brendon Haywood, who many people think is a very good defender (me included) actually is a less valuable shot blocker than Jermaine O’Neal.”
Huizinga’s paper is titled “The Value of a Blocked Shot in the NBA: From Dwight Howard to Tim Duncan,” and not without good reason, explains Pruiti:
…As [Huizinga] explained, through a series of charts, Tim Duncan has had the best season in history when it came down to value/block with 1.12, meaning he saved 1.12 points with every block and Dwight Howard ended up with the worst season in terms of value/block with with .53 (both came during the 2008 season*).Long ago I noticed that most of Tim Duncan’s blocks came right at the rim, which is why I am so excited to read about Huizinga’s paper. Rather than stoke the debate between traditional scouting and advanced statisticians, it further shows how the conclusions of one can work symbiotically with the visual evidence of the other.
*for which he foolishly got the DVOP for being over-valued but Howard could not sniff the great Duncan in his prime defensively and even today may not be the better defender!
Read more: http://www.48minutesofhell.com/the-v...#ixzz1HFMvcYle
Duncan today, when motivated and rested, is still a plausiby a more effective overall shot blocker than Howard and Chandler - perhaps Ibaka with his super human hops or Bynum with his reach and size can make a case to be more effective but in the playoffs when it counts give me Duncan over at least Howard anytime to at least try to make the right and efficient play.
Muser
03-21-2011, 07:37 PM
Historically Duncan shits on Dwight, but we're talking about now.
"there's a very easy case to make that he's far better than Howard on the defensive end."
+1,000,000
John Basedow
03-21-2011, 07:38 PM
Bring it on haters and those that don't understand advanced stats: Duncan even this year blocks more shots per minute and rebounds at nearly the rate of Howard - Duncan is also a far smarter defender, and while he does not have Howard's hops has at least as long as reach:
Not surprising Duncan historically far greater than D. Howard in shot blocking effectiveness - which is not the same as just blocking shots, but Duncan is also top 9 all time in that too
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
He is also near the top in blocks per minute. Not surprising for the man who may have had the greatest block season in history: http://www.48minutesofhell.com/the-v...duncans-blocks
Although intuitive in its own right, this information paints a counterintuitive portrait of some of the NBA’s better regarded frontcourt defenders. For instance, “Looking at it this way, Brendon Haywood, who many people think is a very good defender (me included) actually is a less valuable shot blocker than Jermaine O’Neal.”
Huizinga’s paper is titled “The Value of a Blocked Shot in the NBA: From Dwight Howard to Tim Duncan,” and not without good reason, explains Pruiti:
…As [Huizinga] explained, through a series of charts, Tim Duncan has had the best season in history when it came down to value/block with 1.12, meaning he saved 1.12 points with every block and Dwight Howard ended up with the worst season in terms of value/block with with .53 (both came during the 2008 season).
Long ago I noticed that most of Tim Duncan’s blocks came right at the rim, which is why I am so excited to read about Huizinga’s paper. Rather than stoke the debate between traditional scouting and advanced statisticians, it further shows how the conclusions of one can work symbiotically with the visual evidence of the other.
Read more: http://www.48minutesofhell.com/the-v...#ixzz1HFMvcYle
Duncan today, when motivated and rested, is still a plausiby a more effective overall shot blocker than Howard and Chandler - perhaps Ibaka with his super human hops or Bynum with his reach and size can make a case to be more effective but in the playoffs when it counts give me Duncan anytime to at least try to make the right and efficient play.
You saw the shit right in front of you, but you went ahead and stepped in it anyway. Rummpd never disappoints.
IronMexican
03-21-2011, 07:38 PM
Why do they always show Griffin dunking on the Spurs?
Where is Andrew Bynum in the block rates category? I mean, if he's really the second coming of Wilt Chamberlain, he should be making some waves by now.
Kyle Orton
03-21-2011, 07:40 PM
ezau, where's your wife in the "staying alive" category?
cobbler
03-21-2011, 07:41 PM
Howard really isn't all that great of a defender technically, he's just effective as fuck because of his ability.
WoW! Just Plain Wow!
ezau, where's your wife in the "staying alive" category?
:lol:lol
Good take man, good take.
Duncan defends with such class, so naturally he gets the edge.
John Basedow
03-21-2011, 07:42 PM
Where is Andrew Bynum in the block rates category? I mean, if he's really the second coming of Wilt Chamberlain, he should be making some waves by now.
nigga just make sure you got the meat wagon parked out front of the AT&T during the WCF...Bynum doin' work
John Basedow
03-21-2011, 07:42 PM
ezau, where's your wife in the "staying alive" category?
:lmao
ElNono
03-21-2011, 07:44 PM
Kinda related... Kurt Rambis assists/quarter ratio was phenomenal...
WoW! Just Plain Wow!
You're easily impressed. For future reference, there's an emoticon to save you time. :wow
monosylab1k
03-21-2011, 07:55 PM
Obstructed View is one of the bigger dumbasses this site has ever known. We should just all be thankful he doesn't post nearly as much as he used to.
cobbler
03-21-2011, 07:58 PM
You're easily impressed. For future reference, there's an emoticon to save you time. :wow
Impressed? :lol
Impressed? :lol
You're not familiar with the word? That's not something you should be laughing about, unless it's laughing at yourself as to prevent from :cry
Rummpd
03-21-2011, 08:24 PM
Ibaka (unreal athleticism) and a healthy Bynum with his length and size both have the potential to be better defensive players than Howard.
Howard has had some raw impressive years in blocks per game and has been a monster rebounder but whether or not he should win DVOP of the year again is questionable but he will probably get it anyway.
http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/player/_/stat/blocks/sort/avg48Blocks
Ibaka and Duncan block more per minute than Howard, Bynum not listed due to his time away it looks like.
Damm now Duncan is injured so this is all a moot point.
Howard has as much defensive potential for a bigman as anyone in the league and maybe the history of the league. He's dominating and impacting the game on D greater than any big today - but it's because of his talent and athleticism, not his technique.
He's a knockout artist right now. He's not a technician or boxer, he's just a badass. And if he ever learns how to use his head and play with more technique and preparation on the defensive end, he'll be unreal. But he's effective as hell, arguably the biggest difference maker in the paint today, and there's no denying it.
He's just got so much more upside he can tap...
Grey Spurfan
03-21-2011, 08:57 PM
Tim Duncan has aged more gracefully than any hall of famer in NBA history. Even at his advanced age he is STILL the CLASSIEST defender in the league. Of course you no ring having faggots wouldn't understand that. :lol
redzero
03-21-2011, 09:00 PM
Tim Duncan has aged more gracefully than any hall of famer in NBA history. Even at his advanced age he is STILL the CLASSIEST defender in the league. Of course you no ring having faggots wouldn't understand that. :lol
This guy gets it.
Greg Oden
03-21-2011, 09:01 PM
Obstructed View is one of the bigger dumbasses this site has ever known. We should just all be thankful he doesn't post nearly as much as he used to.
true, tbh. There's a reason why he tends to stick in the Spurs forum so much. People won't call him out on his retarded shit as much up there.
Greg Oden
03-21-2011, 09:01 PM
This guy gets it.
hi!
redzero
03-21-2011, 09:02 PM
Tell your friend to learn how to snipe properly.
Greg Oden
03-21-2011, 09:05 PM
tbh everybody is an active whore on Gears.
redzero
03-21-2011, 09:07 PM
You're just lucky I haven't played the game regularly since 2008.
Grey Spurfan
03-21-2011, 09:09 PM
This guy gets it.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_l2VT7bYUEaY/TRknx761CRI/AAAAAAAAQNo/VbBItQLTCG8/s1600/mijo-u-mad.jpg
Greg Oden
03-21-2011, 09:09 PM
oh that's what it is.
IronMexican
03-21-2011, 09:10 PM
lol Gears.
Tell me when we play some Bad Company, and I'll get gold.
Magic2Kobe
03-21-2011, 09:12 PM
lol Gears.
Tell me when we play some Bad Company, and I'll get gold.
I'll play that shit with ya.
This is midnight, if you don't already know.
Greg Oden
03-21-2011, 09:13 PM
I'll play that shit with ya.
This is midnight, if you don't already know.
:wow I thought you were gonna help Jasper return volley troll on some fagles.
IronMexican
03-21-2011, 09:13 PM
I'll play that shit with ya.
This is midnight, if you don't already know.
We need to get everyone on. Also had no idea it was you. Good cover:tu
IronMexican
03-21-2011, 09:14 PM
BTW, I need to watch TDK one more time, to see if it really did suck as much as it did the first time I watched it.
Greg Oden
03-21-2011, 09:15 PM
have fun trying to get people to play that shit.
Magic2Kobe
03-21-2011, 09:16 PM
have fun trying to get people to play that shit.
Not a BFBC fan?
Amazing game when you have a team of friends working together.
IronMexican
03-21-2011, 09:19 PM
game of the year, all years.
Magic2Kobe
03-21-2011, 09:22 PM
game of the year, all years.
Best mulitplayer FPS I've played. But the caveat is you need to squad up with everyone knowing their role. The game is beyond frustrating when you join a squad with 3 sniper faggots who don't do shit but go for headshots.
LnGrrrR
03-21-2011, 09:27 PM
I need to check that game out. Been busy playing some old school Planescape:Torment. That gog.com website is da bomb.
IronMexican
03-21-2011, 09:28 PM
Best mulitplayer FPS I've played. But the caveat is you need to squad up with everyone knowing their role. The game is beyond frustrating when you join a squad with 3 sniper faggots who don't do shit but go for headshots.
Agreed. If you join an awesome squad, the game is mega awesome possum. But when you get a bunch of gay people, it sucks. I also always play for the win, and think of stats second.
Axe Murderer
03-21-2011, 09:47 PM
This is midnight, if you don't already know.
:lmao:lmao:lmao
:tu
Discuss.
You have seen it all DD. Embrace it, it's life. :toast
HarlemHeat37
03-21-2011, 10:02 PM
:lol I still find it funny that there are people that try to discredit Howard, certain guys in this thread(not surprising that RummpD is one of them) have made some pretty shitty points..
Orlando has finished in the top 3 in D the last 3 years..Howard has had lockdown defenders like Jameer Nelson, Vince Carter, Gilbert Arenas, Hedo Turkoglu, Jason Richardson and others, locking down the perimeter and strategically funneling players into him..he has had elite help in the paint, in the form of Rashard Lewis, Ryan Anderson and Brandon Bass..
They finished in the top 3 in all these years..it can't be attributed directly to Howard..
:lol I still find it funny that there are people that try to discredit Howard, certain guys in this thread(not surprising that RummpD is one of them) have made some pretty shitty points..
Orlando has finished in the top 3 in D the last 3 years..Howard has had lockdown defenders like Jameer Nelson, Vince Carter, Gilbert Arenas, Hedo Turkoglu, Jason Richardson and others, locking down the perimeter and strategically funneling players into him..he has had elite help in the paint, in the form of Rashard Lewis, Ryan Anderson and Brandon Bass..
They finished in the top 3 in all these years..it can't be attributed directly to Howard..
I think he suffers from his massive potential in the minds of many. Somewhat like Shaq back in the day, only Shaq was seen as lazy or too focused on life outside of basketball and Dwight has only really been charged with being the latter in some circles.
Like I said, he's a knockout artist. You can't dispute the result. But because his upside and talent is so great he's seen as an almost underachiever of sorts. It's just the ridiculous expectation his talent brings; remember when Duncan would have 20-20 games and people would be lamenting, nitpicking some part of his game that could have been better on the outing?
It's just greatness' expectation.
Roger Freemason Jr.
03-21-2011, 10:18 PM
BFBC2 is a badass game, but I prefer the fast paced more unrealistic multiplayer of Black Ops, just because it's quick and straight to the point.
I'm down to get down on Black Ops, ps3.
TD 21
03-22-2011, 12:51 AM
Of course his block rate is high... The defenders attack the paint on nearly every possession. I could make a case for Duncan in his prime but Howard is Orlando's defensive anchor and much better at this point in time.
A case for Duncan? In Duncan's prime, he was clearly a superior defender to Howard.
John Basedow
03-22-2011, 06:15 PM
true, tbh. There's a reason why he tends to stick in the Spurs forum so much. People won't call him out on his retarded shit as much up there.
True...this can be said about a number of dumbasses upstairs
Sec24Row7
03-22-2011, 07:41 PM
Discuss.
Ok... I'll give you this... howard is a better defender in the 12 minutes it takes him to foul out...
:lol
IronMexican
03-22-2011, 07:44 PM
You guys getting Crysis 2?
lefty
03-22-2011, 07:47 PM
DD :lmao
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