Drudge is calling it Obama...

[Yonivore]

...Ghraib.

US Army 'kill team' in Afghanistan posed for photos of murdered civilians (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/mar/21/us-army-kill-team-afghanistan-posed-pictures-murdered-civilians)
Do I blame Obama? No. He's as much to blame for a rogue set of soldiers as Bush was for the crimes at Abu Ghraib.

But, if the media is going to stick to its template and be fair, we should start seeing the screaming headlines and stories about how such atrocities are chargeable to the man at the top.

:corn:

Oh, for those that are wondering, yes, the murders allegedly took place during the Obama administration. I began to suspect as much after reading a couple of accounts and noticing the writers conveniently left the time frame of the murders out of the story. So, I searched and, just as I suspected, they occurred beginning around December 2010 (http://theweek.com/article/index/206971/did-a-us-kill-team-go-rogue-in-afghanistan).


When and where did these crimes take place? They are alleged to have happened earlier this year [the article was written in September of 2010], while the 5th Stryker Brigade was stationed at Forward Operating Base Ramrod, west of Kandahar. The region is one of the most dangerous in Afghanistan.

How did they come to light?
The investigation was launched after a soldier from the 5th Stryker Brigade informed his superiors that some of the accused were smoking marijuana. The informant was allegedly attacked and threatened with death as a result. Staff Sgt Gibbs reportedly showed the fingers collected from Afghan corpses to the whistle-blower to stop him talking.
Relevance? The same relevance as the when the crimes of Abu Ghraib occurred. None whatsoever.

[ChumpDumper]

Glad you brought up something you declared to be irrelevant. :tu

And we already know you never held Bushy responsible for anything that went wrong. He's quite like Jesus to you.

[ElNono]

Bring everyone home...

[Yonivore]

Bring everyone home...
Yeah, because crimes are never committed during a legitimate war.

[ElNono]

Yeah, because crimes are never committed during a legitimate war.

Uh? What does that has to do with bringing everyone home?

[Yonivore]

Uh? What does that has to do with bringing everyone home?
Quitting a legitimate war because you have some bad apples is stupid.

[Marcus Bryant]

So how many decades will pass until the war is no longer necessary?

[ElNono]

Quitting a legitimate war because you have some bad apples is stupid.

I don't call it illegitimate, and I don't think the reason for returning should be because of bad apples... I just think that war has ran it's course... a long time ago... bring everyone home.

[ManuBalboa]

What kind of phaggot poses with a murdered body like that. Send these soldiers to Mexico if they want to play like that.

[boutons_deux]

Soldiers posing with their trophies is very different from Abu Ghraib prison guards humiliating and torturing prisoners.

The torturing was tortuously justified by Repug DoJ whore lawyers at the Repug WH's request, waved through from the DoD and the military brass, and with hands off from DoD shrinks and lawyers.

As usual, Yoni's best defense of Repug criminality is that they are no worse than the Dems, an obvious LIE of false equivalence.

Y, GFY

[Marcus Bryant]

At some point these wars end, right?

[Yonivore]

At some point these wars end, right?
Technically, we're still engaged in hostilities in Korea and Bosnia...so, who knows?

[Nbadan]

Soldiers posing with their trophies is very different from Abu Ghraib prison guards humiliating and torturing prisoners.

The torturing was tortuously justified by Repug DoJ whore lawyers at the Repug WH's request, waved through from the DoD and the military brass, and with hands off from DoD shrinks and lawyers.

As usual, Yoni's best defense of Repug criminality is that they are no worse than the Dems, an obvious LIE of false equivalence.

Y, GFY

Exactly. the moral equivalency from the right is sickening, but at least now they are finally admitting that torturing, in many cases, innocent prisoners to death is wrong and hopefully someday the Bush cronies who justified said torture, and in many cases, ordered the torture, will be held accountable for war crimes against humanity.....I just hope it happens while Cheney is still around..

[ChumpDumper]

Technically, we're still engaged in hostilities in Korea and Bosnia...so, who knows?Do you ever even hope for peace?

[diego]

since when are defenseless civilians trophies, boutons? talk about false equivalence

the only thing that makes this less scandalous than Abu Ghraib is that apparently the military justice is already prosecuting (before the media got hold of the story?) instead of minimizing / justifying as they did in Abu Ghraib.


Yoni, why is the Afghan war legitimate? how many Afghan citizens were involved in 9/11? did they use Afghani box cutters? Did the planes take off from Afghani airports? Let me guess- the taliban gave safe harbor to OBL, OBL ordered 9/11, therefore the Afghani people are responsible for 9/11. If you can attribute OBL's responsibility for 9/11 to the afghani people with this logic, than why can't you do the same for US soldiers and Bush/Obama? They have a much stronger connection (chain of command, I believe it is called) than afghani civilians and OBL do.

as the owner of a small business I'm responsible for what my employees do while at work. if they make mistakes / commit crimes, I have to discipline them and I have to do it officially and if I fail to do so I am held responsible. why wouldn't it be the same for politicians?

as for your other stupid argument, when your kids cheat on an exam will you accept "students never cheat in school :rolleyes" as an argument? how is that "crimes are never committed during war" argument any different than "crimes are never committed during poverty/democracy/communism/fascism/famine/drug addiction/psychosis/ennui/human history :rolleyes" I guess we should all just give up on values and justice, because crimes are just an inevtiable fact of life. and here I always thought moral relativism was a liberal thing and you conservatives were the last bastions of values and ideology.

[boutons_deux]

"since when are defenseless civilians trophies"

When their killers treat them like trophies.

Abu Ghraib was systematic up to the dubya and dickhead and rummy and the scumbag lawyers they hired to give them false cover.

Soldiers treating the objects of their killing as trophies is perhaps episodic. It maybe exposes how those soldiers are conditioned/encouraged to treat their victims as trophies by their immediate commanders. But it doesn't go all the way to Barry's WH. Trained killers treating their victims a trophies is one of the "beauties" of war, along with victors raping the women and children.

[101A]

At some point these wars end, right?


Sure, and it's not like we'd get involved in another one.....

I believe we have been at continuous war for the longest stretch in our history.

[Wild Cobra]

It will never be president Obama's Abu Ghraib, because the media won't color the news like they did for president Bush.

These incidents first started in January 2010. It was news here in Portland as the events unfolded. Here is one article on a quick search:

Army medic from Portland pleads guilty to firing on Afghan civilians (Updated) (http://blog.oregonlive.com/oregonatwar/2010/12/army_medic_from_portland_plead.html)

which links to:

Reuters: U.S. soldier pleads guilty to firing on unarmed Afghans (http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/12/01/us-soldiers-crimes-idUSTRE6B06EL20101201)

The whistleblower, Washington Post article: Members of Stryker Combat Brigade in Afghanistan accused of killing civilians for sport (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/09/18/AR2010091803935.html?sid=ST2010091803942)

Part of the article:

A father's warning

On Feb. 14, Christopher Winfield, a former Marine from Cape Coral, Fla., logged onto his Facebook account to chat with his son, Adam, a 3rd Platoon soldier who was up late in Afghanistan. Spec. Adam C. Winfield confided that he'd had a run-in with Gibbs, his squad leader. He also typed a mysterious note saying that some people get away with murder.

When his father pressed him to explain, Adam replied, "did you not understand what i just told you." He then referred to the slaying of the Afghan villager the month before, adding that other platoon members had threatened him because he did not approve. In addition, he said, they were bragging about how they wanted to find another victim.
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"I was just shocked," Christopher Winfield said in a phone interview. "He was scared for his life at that point."

The father told his son that he would contact the Army to intervene and investigate. It was a Sunday, but he didn't wait. He called the Army inspector general's 24-hour hotline and left a voice mail. He called the office of Sen. Bill Nelson (D-Fla.), and left another message. He called a sergeant at Lewis-McChord who told him to call the Army's criminal investigations division. He left another message there.

Finally, he said, he called the Fort Lewis command center and spoke for 12 minutes to a sergeant on duty. He said the sergeant agreed that it sounded as if Adam was in potential danger but that, unless he was willing to report it to his superiors in Afghanistan, there was little the Army could do.

"He just kind of blew it off," Christopher Winfield said. "I was sitting there with my jaw on the ground." Winfield said he doesn't recall the name of the sergeant he spoke with. Billing records that he kept confirm that he called Army officials; he also kept copies of transcripts of Facebook chats with this son. He said he specifically told the sergeant of his son's warning that more murders were in the works.

Army investigators have since taken a sworn statement from Christopher Winfield, as well as copies of his phone and Internet records.

Other killings

Eight days after Winfield tried to warn the Army, according to charging documents, members of the 3rd Platoon murdered someone else.

On Feb. 22, Marach Agha, an Afghan civilian, was killed by rifle fire near Forward Operating Base Ramrod in Kandahar province, where the 3rd Platoon was stationed. The Army has released few details about the slaying but has charged Gibbs, Morlock and Spec. Michael S. Wagnon II of Las Vegas with murder.

[ChumpDumper]

Sorry, the Abu Ghraib situation occurred in no small part due to the Bush administration's decisions regarding the use of that prison in its herding of Iraqis inside its walls for no particular reason.

I know you guys want Obama to fuck up more than Bush did, but it's practically impossible.

[Oh, Gee!!]

when you provide memos from Obama Admin attorneys devising "legal" arguments on how to kill civilians and get around the Geneva Convention, let us know.

[Winehole23]

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2011/11/kill-team-guilty/#more-63208

[Nbadan]

Gibbs admitted to collecting the body parts at trial. In testimony, he compared stockpiling the remains of people he killed to trophies from animal hunting. “I was numb to the situation,” he told the court. “I wasn’t thinking; it’s sickening. I am embarrassed.”

People have been saying that this kinda shit was common in Iraq too...but comparing this to Abu Ghrib is stupid.....We now know that the decision to torture prisoners and in many cases, murder innocent civilians, came from, at the very least, the office of the Vice President if not from Dubya himself...as long as these criminals walk around unpunished we're damned...

[DMX7]

Apples and oranges...