Just watched Inception: One big question...

[LnGrrrR]

Why steal things?

If you had a technology that effectively gave you hours, days or years of time, why use it to steal things?

Hell, rent it out to scientists to allow years of research in a single night. You know how much they'd be willing to pay for that ability?

[The Reckoning]

well basically they are scientists getting paid to research secrets from someone else

plus you cant take test samples back into reality.

[LnGrrrR]

well basically they are scientists getting paid to research secrets from someone else

plus you cant take test samples back into reality.

But the people in the dreams remember what's in them, right? Why not have an architect design a lab, run simulations through said lab for a few years, then come out in the "real world" with the answer/knowledge?

[greyforest]

Why steal things?

If you had a technology that effectively gave you hours, days or years of time, why use it to steal things?

Hell, rent it out to scientists to allow years of research in a single night. You know how much they'd be willing to pay for that ability?

Hmmmmm, I'd wager it has to do with people ignoring movies about selling technology to scientists with no conflict.

[The Reckoning]

But the people in the dreams remember what's in them, right? Why not have an architect design a lab, run simulations through said lab for a few years, then come out in the "real world" with the answer/knowledge?

well you know as well as I that the physics of your dreams arent always the same as real life. the results wouldnt be valid.

[LnGrrrR]

Hmmmmm, I'd wager it has to do with people ignoring movies about selling technology to scientists with no conflict.

Obviously. But it's a bit of a flaw in the logic of a universe with such technology.

I also didn't quite get why someone who has trained their mind to protect themselves from extraction (as Fisher seemingly did) couldn't just dream up a giant tidal wave, or an apocalypse, or any other number of more "surefire" ways of expelling an intruder than random gun-toting goons.

[LnGrrrR]

well you know as well as I that the physics of your dreams arent always the same as real life. the results wouldnt be valid.

Eh, perhaps. One could imagine that, no matter how good the architect, one might only be able to reach an approxmation of physics and not the "real thing".

Although I guess they could always market it as a "sleep vacation" a la Total Recall and still make a pretty penny, similar to the people in the chemists basement.

[z0sa]

Because that would be a shitty movie.

[LnGrrrR]

Because that would be a shitty movie.

:lol I should've predicted this response. :facepalm

[4>0rings]

Ha! Just watched this movie tonight. Epic.

[z0sa]

:lmao

[Cry Havoc]

I also didn't quite get why someone who has trained their mind to protect themselves from extraction (as Fisher seemingly did) couldn't just dream up a giant tidal wave, or an apocalypse, or any other number of more "surefire" ways of expelling an intruder than random gun-toting goons.

Because that's the world of the mind that the mind itself has constructed. You can't have a huge disaster within your mind without doing serious damage to your mind. A man with a machine gun can be deadly, but he isn't going to destroy the foundational fabric of your subconscious. Just like when Ariadne starts shifting things around and molding a cityscape to bend to her will, the mind that she's inhabiting gets angry, because she's an outside agent in their own perception of the world. A tsunami or major disaster (canonically speaking) would likely drive the person insane, or at the very least they would wake up with a number of memories completely wiped.

You could also make the argument that the maximum response that most individuals could ever do as far as self-defense of their subconscious are very minor combatants. This is also what made Ariadne so valuable in the first place, because she did have the ability to exert that kind of control over the non-waking world. It is called the "subconscious" for a reason, after all, and most probably lack the ability to do much of anything about it (being almost completely unaware of it), so it is likely extremely difficult to train even a token response like the one that made for the action scenes in the movie.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

"it's a movie" dot dot dot

[MannyIsGod]

Rewatch the movie and pay attention to the scene where he's speaking with Michael Cane in the classroom. He explains that he steals with the technique because he didn't have many legal ways to use it after what happened. You don't find out what exactly happened until later in the film but yeah.

[Cry Havoc]

"it's a movie" dot dot dot

:tu So insightful!

[easjer]

If someone has to create the universe of the dream, how could trust any of the results of the tests? Someone is still exerting their will over it, and would likely influence it unintentionally.

[BlackSwordsMan]

I didn't get how someone can train themselves not to be mind fucked. Wish they explained that more.

[Blake]

Why steal things?

If you had a technology that effectively gave you hours, days or years of time, why use it to steal things?


Because you still have to wake up to the real world at some point.

No problem believing that Leo would want the best of both worlds.


Hell, rent it out to scientists to allow years of research in a single night. You know how much they'd be willing to pay for that ability

If the world is made up of an architect's dream, how would it be possible to do any kind of advanced research?

I would think the physics of the dream created would have to be limited to the knowledge of architect.

[Bartleby]

What really made no sense (according to the logic of the movie) was the kick within the dream, when they were in the hotel.

The kick relies on the physical sensation of falling to wake the sleeper, jolting the sleeper back to the world of the body, but this seems possible only in the first level of the dream. If you try to kick the dream version of the self (the dreamer within the dream), it shouldn't work because at that level there is no physical body to kick awake.

[BlackSwordsMan]

didn't they do a dream with a dream to kick someone out of the dream in the second level to beat the 3rd level to get back to the first level?

[LnGrrrR]

Because that's the world of the mind that the mind itself has constructed. You can't have a huge disaster within your mind without doing serious damage to your mind. A man with a machine gun can be deadly, but he isn't going to destroy the foundational fabric of your subconscious. Just like when Ariadne starts shifting things around and molding a cityscape to bend to her will, the mind that she's inhabiting gets angry, because she's an outside agent in their own perception of the world. A tsunami or major disaster (canonically speaking) would likely drive the person insane, or at the very least they would wake up with a number of memories completely wiped.


I didn't get the idea that the "dreamstate" world actually affect your subconscious; it merely can be shaped by it.

Heck, if a dreamer thinks he is being attacked in his dream, the sensible thing would be to do what Fisher almost did (that is, try to shoot himself).


You could also make the argument that the maximum response that most individuals could ever do as far as self-defense of their subconscious are very minor combatants. This is also what made Ariadne so valuable in the first place, because she did have the ability to exert that kind of control over the non-waking world. It is called the "subconscious" for a reason, after all, and most probably lack the ability to do much of anything about it (being almost completely unaware of it), so it is likely extremely difficult to train even a token response like the one that made for the action scenes in the movie.

Perhaps, but the idea of lucid dreaming, which is a real thing and exists today, seems to against that idea. People who are skilled at lucid dreaming can "recognize" dreams and then shape/alter them, so I'm not sure how hard it would be to put up a "defense".

Still, interesting ideas Cry. :toast

[LnGrrrR]

Rewatch the movie and pay attention to the scene where he's speaking with Michael Cane in the classroom. He explains that he steals with the technique because he didn't have many legal ways to use it after what happened. You don't find out what exactly happened until later in the film but yeah.

Actually, that scene was what got me to thinking about it in the first place. I don't see WHY he couldn't use it in a legal sense, unless the world recognized the highly addictive qualities of these machines and made them illegal in some way. (Which would've been a good in-universe work-around.)

[IronMexican]

This thread. It's like people getting mad that The Incredible Hulk's pants don't rip off, but are okay with him growing 10 times in siz3e, and turning green.

[LnGrrrR]

I would think that architects, physicians, scientists etc etc could collaborate on a big project like this, but I'm fine with assuming that the physics could never be "just right" for tests.

I'm sure there could be multiple other "legal" uses for it though. I already mentioned the Total Recall "dream vacation" type experience, but I'm sure there are quite a few others out there. Perhaps athletes could "play games" in the dreamworld, and use the memory to perform better in the real world? What about relatively simple computations that require great amounts of data to be processed? Etc etc.

[LnGrrrR]

This thread. It's like people getting mad that The Incredible Hulk's pants don't rip off, but are okay with him growing 10 times in siz3e, and turning green.

Eh, we all know it's a movie. But it's fun to discuss things like that sometimes, to look at the potential impact any character/device/etc might have.

Heck, some of the most successful comic books come from deconstructing certain superhero tropes we take for granted. (See Kingdom Come, Ultimates, Astro City, etc etc)

[Blake]

This thread. It's like people getting mad that The Incredible Hulk's pants don't rip off, but are okay with him growing 10 times in siz3e, and turning green.

good point. I'm surprised nobody has discussed that anywhere ever before.

I question why Bruce Banner always buys purple pants.

[oh crap]

jesus, how long ago now did this movie come out?

[MannyIsGod]

Actually, that scene was what got me to thinking about it in the first place. I don't see WHY he couldn't use it in a legal sense, unless the world recognized the highly addictive qualities of these machines and made them illegal in some way. (Which would've been a good in-universe work-around.)

The movie mentions that other people are using it in different ways. For example when they visit the chemist for the first time and how shared dreams were initially developed for Army training.

However, he's a fugative so he can't use it legally any longer. Thats why he steals.

[ALVAREZ6]

jesus, how long ago now did this movie come out?

last summer

[ALVAREZ6]

last summer

lol

[LnGrrrR]

The movie mentions that other people are using it in different ways. For example when they visit the chemist for the first time and how shared dreams were initially developed for Army training.

Ah that's right, good catch. I wonder if said devices were limited to gov't usage/restricted from being in the hands of citizens.

[LnGrrrR]

And I'm not quite getting the whole "you didn't see the movie when it came out!" smack. I've got a kid and a wife and a job; I miss some movies when they come out. *shrug* I guess if that doesn't make one of the cool kids, then so be it.

[lefty]

mmmm....

Looks like I have some plagiarizing to do.

BRB

[Johnny RIngo]

And I'm not quite getting the whole "you didn't see the movie when it came out!" smack. I've got a kid and a wife and a job; I miss some movies when they come out. *shrug* I guess if that doesn't make one of the cool kids, then so be it.

Yeah, really. It's a recent film and still talked about on all the forums I frequent. Nowhere near as weird as that one guy who started an American Pyscho thread a few weeks ago.

[mFFL03]

that guy with the inception GIF needs to make an appearance in here