Has a Team That Was 30th in the League in Paint Points ever Won a Title?

[kwamay_brown54]

Yeah thats right, I'm talking about the Cryami Heat. They are currently dead last in scoring in the paint, and its not even close really. Their entire halfcourt offense consists of 1-4 flat sets with LBJ or WADE and pick and pops for Christina Bosh, and thats pretty much it. I could draw up a better playbook with an ETCH-A-SKETCH. In the modern era of basketball, I can't imagine a team with as deplorable of a rotation of starting centers in Dampier,Ilguaskas, and Magloire :lol:lol:lol

[redzero]

I'm guessing you're history2b. How many accounts do you have?

[Kobe_5_Duncan_4]

I'm guessing you're history2b. How many accounts do you have?


No faggot, that's not me. Why the fuck would talk about the Miami Heat on this board? No one gives a shit about them.

Teams with the least points in the paint have about as much of chance to win the title as a 3p chucking team though.

[Venti Quattro]

We're all entangled in a web of Laker alternicks. At least creating nicks doesn't cost $500.

[cheguevara]

At least creating nicks doesn't cost $500.

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[Spur_Fanatic]

We're all entangled in a web of Laker alternicks. At least creating nicks doesn't cost $500.

:lmao:rollin:lmao

[HarlemHeat37]

They were 29th in point scoring last year, too..Spoelstra doesn't know how to coach, which has been evident since he was given a job, obviously..not getting easy shots inside the paint is one of the many flaws of Spoelstra's "system"..last year's Heat had the same offensive issues as this year's Heat, which is obviously comical, since they didn't have Lebron and Bosh..

Anyways, it's a non-issue, Heat have turned on the switch..

[Dunc n Dave]

We're all entangled in a web of Laker alternicks. At least creating nicks doesn't cost $500.

:toast

[JJ Hickson]

Anyways, it's a non-issue, Heat have turned on the switch..


Thankfully they conveniently waited until they didn't have to play any contenders to turn on the switch.

[Hoops Czar]

They were 29th in point scoring last year, too..Spoelstra doesn't know how to coach, which has been evident since he was given a job, obviously..not getting easy shots inside the paint is one of the many flaws of Spoelstra's "system"..last year's Heat had the same offensive issues as this year's Heat, which is obviously comical, since they didn't have Lebron and Bosh..

Anyways, it's a non-issue, Heat have turned on the switch..

Funny... How many times can a team turn on the switch in a season? Could have sworn they turned it on when they won 21 of 22. I guess I was wrong.

[Cane]

They'll make up for it at the charity stripe :downspin: :lobt2:

[Cane]

They were 29th in point scoring last year, too..Spoelstra doesn't know how to coach, which has been evident since he was given a job, obviously..not getting easy shots inside the paint is one of the many flaws of Spoelstra's "system"..last year's Heat had the same offensive issues as this year's Heat, which is obviously comical, since they didn't have Lebron and Bosh..

Anyways, it's a non-issue, Heat have turned on the switch..

Spo's going to waste away the primes and potential of that Big 3 :depressed

[HarlemHo 37]

:lol 133-94 says he does know how to coach. TBH, its Lebron who doesn't want to learn. This is Wade's team and as soon as the third wheel understands that, the Miami Heat can move forward. Lebron's won nothing in his life and he came to South Beach thinking it was going to be a cake walk. IMO, Lebron is the problem, not Spo. It's no surprise Lebron did everything in his power to get Spo fired earlier in the season to no avail. D-wade has to grow up and take over the leadership of this team. The hell with what Lebron thinks TBH.

[Ghazi]

this is bad omen for the Mavs as well.

[Ace]

:lol 133-94 says he does know how to coach. TBH, its Lebron who doesn't want to learn. This is Wade's team and as soon as the third wheel understands that, the Miami Heat can move forward. Lebron's won nothing in his life and he came to South Beach thinking it was going to be a cake walk. IMO, Lebron is the problem, not Spo. It's no surprise Lebron did everything in his power to get Spo fired earlier in the season to no avail. D-wade has to grow up and take over the leadership of this team. The hell with what Lebron thinks TBH.

Its Lebron's fault the team doesn't have an offensive system to speak of? He's a ball stopper but so is Wade, there's no ball movement at times even when he's not in the game.

[frodo]

i see the blur of 06' mavs on the current miami heat, and the heat don't even have a fine C like Damp or Dessagana "bill russell" Diop. they can make the finals maybe but will only get thrashed there very meekly. what goes around comes around

[HarlemHo 37]

Its Lebron's fault the team doesn't have an offensive system to speak of? He's a ball stopper but so is Wade, there's no ball movement at times even when he's not in the game.

This is true... Both of them hog the ball, but explain to me how that's Spo's fault? You've got two players cut from the same mold playing aside one another. Yet, Riley thought this was a good thing. Miami threw out the "team" concept when he signed Bosh and Lebron. Its always about the big show showcasing their talents in South Beach. Its never been about the team in Miami. Spo has no control over Lebron and whatever little control he had over Wade went out the window when Lebron was signed. What is Spo suppose to do? Do you think he preaches no ball movement?

[Ace]

This is true... Both of them hog the ball, but explain to me how that's Spo's fault? You've got two players cut from the same mold playing aside one another. Yet, Riley thought this was a good thing. Miami threw out the "team" concept when he signed Bosh and Lebron. Its always about the big show showcasing their talents in South Beach. Its never been about the team in Miami. Spo has no control over Lebron and whatever little control he had over Wade went out the window when Lebron was signed. What is Spo suppose to do? Do you think he preaches no ball movement?

What exactly does a coach do?

[HarlemHo 37]

What exactly does a coach do?

No... What is Spo suppose to do when he has me,me,me playing along side Wade and Bosh? I've listened to Spo in his press conferences where he put emphasis on ball movement. You can lead a donkey to water, but you can't make it drink, TBH.

[Ace]

No... What is Spo suppose to do when he has me,me,me playing along side Wade and Bosh? I've listened to Spo in his press conferences where he put emphasis on ball movement. You can lead a donkey to water, but you can't make it drink, TBH.

Last year's Heat played the same style, offense containing mostly ISOs. Lebron is not to blame and your blind hatred is making you sound ignorant, tbh.

[HarlemHo 37]

Last year's Heat played the same style, offense containing mostly ISOs. Lebron is not to blame and your blind hatred is making you sound ignorant, tbh.

:lol Last year's heat team had one option and a bunch of misfits. If D-wade didn't go out of his mind, the Heat were going to lose the game. This Heat team is a far cry from last years.... plenty of options to go around.

What makes you think I have a problem with King stiffy? You shouldn't be able to talk the talk until you walk the walk, IMO.

[HarlemHeat37]

:lol I love the cliches that people use..every Heat fan blames Spoelstra, every knowledge NBA fan blames Spoelstra, the Heat players have subtly blamed Spoelstra, but the haters(the majority of mindless NBA fans) try to blame Lebron, when they have absolutely no facts to provide..

First of all, if Lebron wanted Spoelstra fired, he would have been fired a long time ago:lol..Wade and Bosh have actually both taken subtle shots at Spoelstra, Wade praising the other teams coaches multiple times this season, in post game interviews, while saying the Heat weren't prepared:lol..Bosh has complained about his role multiple times, because he's been used the same way Udonis Haslem is used, due to Spoelsta's lack of ability to adjust to his personnel..

I already posted a link during Miami's slide, which diagrams Spoelstra's system and his horrible plays..this was the same shit he used last year..you would think he would adjust his system to fit the best player in the NBA and one of the top PFs:lol..obviously most people here ignored it, and continued using their cliches and false perception that they get from the media..

Last year's Cavs: 7th in the NBA in points in the paint, with no paint presence..
This year's Heat: 28th in the NBA in points in the paint..
2010 Heat: 29th in the NBA in points in the paint..

Last year's Cavs: 2nd in the NBA in assisted % of shots at the rim..
This year's Heat: 29th in the NBA in assisted % of shots at the rim..
2010 Heat: 30th in the NBA in assisted % of shots at the rim..
2009 Heat: 25th in the NBA in assisted % of shots at the rim..

Last year's Cavs: 2nd in the NBA in assisted % of shots from the rest of the paint
This year's Heat: 30th in the NBA in assisted % of shots from the rest of the paint
2010 Heat: 28th in the NBA in assisted % of shots from the rest of the paint..
2009 Heat: 28th in the NBA in assisted % of shots from the rest of the paint..

What's the common trend here?..

The Cavs were the 7th highest paint scoring team in the NBA last year, and got easy baskets inside, as much, or more, than any other team in the NBA..

The Heat are one of the worst paint scoring teams in the NBA this season, and they are arguably the worst team in the NBA at getting baskets inside, despite having 2 of the 3 best players in the NBA, and an all-star big man..

The Heat have been one of the worst in the NBA in this category since Spoelstra arrived..not a coincidence..I didn't know much about him before this season, but I thought that the coach wouldn't matter..he's probably the worst coach in NBA history..

The Heat will win this year, based strictly on Lebron and Wade(and a little of Bosh) + age..

[Kyle Orton]

last year's Heat had the same offensive issues as this year's Heat, which is obviously comical, since they didn't have Lebron and Bosh..


Why is it you think adding Chrissy Bosh should improve a team's inside scoring?

[HarlemHeat37]

Why is it you think adding Chrissy Bosh should improve a team's inside scoring?

He was only behind Amare, Gasol and Zach Randolph in points in the paint amongst PFs last year(if you don't count FTAs..if you do, he's higher)..either way, he's a massive upgrade over what they had last year..

[#41 Shoot Em Up]

Chrissy Bosh?? Veeerrry creative, keep up the bad work :tu

[#41 Shoot Em Up]

He was only behind Amare, Gasol and Zach Randolph in points in the paint amongst PFs last year(if you don't count FTAs..if you do, he's higher)..either way, he's a massive upgrade over what they had last year..

Gotta agree with my nigga HH37 on this one

[Kyle Orton]

He was behind them playing on a team that put him on the court with 4 perimeter players who would stretch the court and give him a wide open lane to score in. Now that he's on a winning team that actually plays a real center most of the time, his interior scoring "ability" has been exposed since he isn't on some gimmicky team that cares more about stat whoring than winning.

[HarlemHeat37]

It's possible, but I don't buy it..as I showed, Spoelstra's system is terrible for creating easy shots inside, Miami has been horrible at it, since he arrived as the coach..unfortunately, the only other example I could use for Spoelstra is Beasley, since he was held back last year, and he's been scoring in the paint at a high rate this year, but you'll play the "bad team" card again(which isn't a bad card, but there isn't really a good example on either side here, in regards to Bosh's paint production)..

Also, Bosh is actually last in the NBA in getting assisted on shots in the paint this year, amongst big men that play 25 MPG or more..I don't care if you hate the guy, but that's just pathetic..even average bigs should be getting spoon-fed by Lebron and Wade, on most other teams..

The Raptors were a playoff team in 2007 and in 2008..so it's not like they were always some bottom-feeder..either way, I doubt you're going to argue that Udonis Haslem and Jermaine O'Neal, from last year, are anywhere near Bosh in this category, despite your dislike of him..

[Kyle Orton]

It's possible, but I don't buy it..as I showed, Spoelstra's system is terrible for creating easy shots inside, Miami has been horrible at it, since he arrived as the coach..unfortunately, the only other example I could use for Spoelstra is Beasley, since he was held back last year, and he's been scoring in the paint at a high rate this year, but you'll play the "bad team" card again(which isn't a bad card, but there isn't really a good example on either side here, in regards to Bosh's paint production)..

Also, Bosh is actually last in the NBA in getting assisted on shots in the paint this year, amongst big men that play 25 MPG or more..I don't care if you hate the guy, but that's just pathetic..even average bigs should be getting spoon-fed by Lebron and Wade, on most other teams..

The Raptors were a playoff team in 2007 and in 2008..so it's not like they were always some bottom-feeder..

Right. I'm sure Spoelstra says to Bosh, "Never make cuts in the paint, post up or look to score inside. I want you to camp 20 feet from the hoop like a big pussy and continuously hoist jumpers. Lebron and Wade, only pass to Bosh when he has an open jumper, don't ever try to create any shots inside for Bosh." The Heat's lack of interior scoring is just as much to blame on Lebron and Bosh thinking they're much better jump shooters than they really are as it is on Spoelstra.

[HarlemHeat37]

Yes, that makes sense..Lebron's Cavs were a high scoring team in the paint, Bosh was a high scoring paint scorer in Toronto, while the Heat have been the worst team in the NBA at scoring in the paint since Spoelstra arrived, but it's Lebron and Bosh's fault:lol..

Bosh is a pussy that prefers to take jump shots, everybody knows that, but to pretend like he's some scrub on the level of Jermaine O'Neal or Joel Anthony is just hatred..

The Heat actually just started running screen/cut plays during this winning streak, it's the first time all year..they're finally running plays for Bosh inside now, ever since he complained about his lack of touches in the paint..

[Kyle Orton]

Yeah, it's Spoelstra's fault for running shitty offensive sets, and it's Lebron and Bosh's fault for falling in love with jump shots they don't consistently make. Only a retard would paint it as such a black and white issue that's either 100% Spoelstra's fault or 100% Lebron and Bosh's fault.

[Booharv]

Teams pretty much pack the paint in because Wade and James are mediorce jump shooters, not sure how thats Spoelstra's fault.

[Zelophehad]

A lot of the people who are blaming Spoelstra are the ones who evaluated this team wrong and thought they' be unstoppable. Now they just use him as an excuse, rather than admit this team has gaping holes.

[HarlemHeat37]

Teams pretty much pack the paint in because Wade and James are mediorce jump shooters, not sure how thats Spoelstra's fault.

It's pretty easy to pack the paint and have your bigs stay in one area of the court to stop a team, when they run isolation ball with no other sets or side to side ball movement, all game..

[Kyle Orton]

Tbh, is it Mike Brown's fault the Cavs ran shitty offensive sets w/ Lebron? Maybe it's time to recognize the fact running good offensive sets with someone who massages the ball like Lebron does while having no ability to play off ball isn't the easiest thing in the world. The only play Lebron ever seems interested in running where he dribbles around for 10-15 seconds then goes 1 on 5.

[HarlemHeat37]

A lot of the people who are blaming Spoelstra are the ones who evaluated this team wrong and thought they' be unstoppable. Now they just use him as an excuse, rather than admit this team has gaping holes.

Every team has significant weaknesses in their personnel..Miami has been affected by a lack of a bench, lack of Haslem, and Mike Miller's thumb hurting his game and confidence..

However, it doesn't change the fact that Spoelstra made no adjustments to his system, and doesn't maximize the strengths of his team to counter the weaknesses, at all..not to mention the fact that he hasn't had a set rotation all year..

[HarlemHeat37]

The Cavs offensive sets weren't great, but they were decent enough to take them as far as their talent could IMO..Lebron choked in last year's playoffs, and the rest of the team, particularly Mo Williams, was terrible under pressure in both years..

[Kyle Orton]

It's hard, check that, it's impossible, to maximize the strengths of 3 players who are nothing other than mediocre spot up shooters without the ball in their hands. You can't maximize 3 different strengths of going 1 on 5.

[Hoops Czar]

:lol I love the cliches that people use..every Heat fan blames Spoelstra, every knowledge NBA fan blames Spoelstra, the Heat players have subtly blamed Spoelstra, but the haters(the majority of mindless NBA fans) try to blame Lebron, when they have absolutely no facts to provide..

First of all, if Lebron wanted Spoelstra fired, he would have been fired a long time ago:lol..Wade and Bosh have actually both taken subtle shots at Spoelstra, Wade praising the other teams coaches multiple times this season, in post game interviews, while saying the Heat weren't prepared:lol..Bosh has complained about his role multiple times, because he's been used the same way Udonis Haslem is used, due to Spoelsta's lack of ability to adjust to his personnel..

I already posted a link during Miami's slide, which diagrams Spoelstra's system and his horrible plays..this was the same shit he used last year..you would think he would adjust his system to fit the best player in the NBA and one of the top PFs:lol..obviously most people here ignored it, and continued using their cliches and false perception that they get from the media..

Last year's Cavs: 7th in the NBA in points in the paint, with no paint presence..
This year's Heat: 28th in the NBA in points in the paint..
2010 Heat: 29th in the NBA in points in the paint..

Last year's Cavs: 2nd in the NBA in assisted % of shots at the rim..
This year's Heat: 29th in the NBA in assisted % of shots at the rim..
2010 Heat: 30th in the NBA in assisted % of shots at the rim..
2009 Heat: 25th in the NBA in assisted % of shots at the rim..

Last year's Cavs: 2nd in the NBA in assisted % of shots from the rest of the paint
This year's Heat: 30th in the NBA in assisted % of shots from the rest of the paint
2010 Heat: 28th in the NBA in assisted % of shots from the rest of the paint..
2009 Heat: 28th in the NBA in assisted % of shots from the rest of the paint..

What's the common trend here?..

The Cavs were the 7th highest paint scoring team in the NBA last year, and got easy baskets inside, as much, or more, than any other team in the NBA..

The Heat are one of the worst paint scoring teams in the NBA this season, and they are arguably the worst team in the NBA at getting baskets inside, despite having 2 of the 3 best players in the NBA, and an all-star big man..

The Heat have been one of the worst in the NBA in this category since Spoelstra arrived..not a coincidence..I didn't know much about him before this season, but I thought that the coach wouldn't matter..he's probably the worst coach in NBA history..

The Heat will win this year, based strictly on Lebron and Wade(and a little of Bosh)..

Well, you so arrogantly spelled out what side of the spectrum you reside in. This coming from a ban wagoner who openly admits he didn't know much about the coach prior to this season. There are plenty of subtle differences between last years Cavs team and this years Heat.

Miami doesn't have a post presence. Bosh plays outside the paint so he hardly counts. The Cavs had Hickson and varejao who could both deliver on a regular basis. Your not going to sit here and tell me that Spo would rather watch two of the best players in the game take crowded jumpshots rather than drive to the hoop where they excel And I didn't even mention Jamison and Williams, who could drive to the hoop and score at will.

As far as Wade is concerned, He thinks whatever Lebron tells him to think. Wade had plenty of nice things to say about Spo last year. Its funny how quickly he changes his tune when the calvary comes to town.

Lebron did want Spoelstra fired, and Riley came out and said that ain't happening. Riley sent Lebron that this isn't Cleveland where you can get what you want when you want it. fwiw, I think you'll have your wish at seasons end. Spo will probably resign amidst another Lebron cold-blooded playoff flame out. And btw, Bosh isn't one of the top power forwards in this league. He's a soft knock down jump shooter who couldn't even get his team out of the first round of the playoffs.

Spoelstra is the worst coach in the history of the NBA? Worst than Del Harris? Worst than Mike Brown? He had more talent than this Miami squad and he failed time and time again in the playoffs. what is this, slapstick comedy hour?

So the Heat will win this year in spite of Spo's terrible coaching? Has that ever happened? The only way Miami wins a championship is if Boston and Chicago forfeit.

EDIT: You say Spo is to blame for not making adjustments, yet no one was complaining when they won 21 of 22 right? It only seems to be Spo's problem when the team starts to lose games because it sure as all hell isn't the players fault.

[HarlemHeat37]

Well, you so arrogantly spelled out what side of the spectrum you reside in. This coming from a ban wagoner who openly admits he didn't know much about the coach prior to this season. There are plenty of subtle differences between last years Cavs team and this years Heat.

I'm a player fan, not a team fan, in this regard..Lebron is who I cheer for here, I don't care about the Heat..


Miami doesn't have a post presence. Bosh plays outside the paint so he hardly counts. The Cavs had Hickson and varejao who could both deliver on a regular basis. Your not going to sit here and tell me that Spo would rather watch two of the best players in the game take crowded jumpshots rather than drive to the hoop where they excel And I didn't even mention Jamison and Williams, who could drive to the hoop and score at will.

None of the guys you named are better in the paint than Bosh..Bosh isn't an ideal post presence, but none of those guys are even close..neither Varejao, nor Hickson, were capable of creating their own shots last year(I'm a fan of both, I also thought they should have played Hickson much more last year)..

Jamison and Mo can score, neither of them play in the paint, at all..


As far as Wade is concerned, He thinks whatever Lebron tells him to think. Wade had plenty of nice things to say about Spo last year. Its funny how quickly he changes his tune when the calvary comes to town.

:lol Wade is brainwashed by Lebron?..


So the Heat will win this year in spite of Spo's terrible coaching? Has that ever happened? The only way Miami wins a championship is if Boston and Chicago forfeit.

No, but there has also never been a team with 2 of the top 3 players in the NBA, in their primes, together, in the playoffs..

Also, the Heat have actually been running basic sets since their last losing streak, I'm hoping that means Spoelstra saw the light..they've been using more screens, having Lebron and Wade slash off the ball more, 2-3 p&r..


BTW, I agree that there are significant differences between the Cavs and Heat..I was speaking strictly from a paint scoring perspective..the Cavs surrounded Lebron with better shooters and cutters, and Mike Brown actually did run basic basketball sets that involved off-ball movement, unlike Spoelstra..

[Hoops Czar]

None of the guys you named are better in the paint than Bosh..Bosh isn't an ideal post presence, but none of those guys are even close..neither Varejao, nor Hickson, were capable of creating their own shots last year(I'm a fan of both, I also thought they should have played Hickson much more last year)..

Jamison and Mo can score, neither of them play in the paint, at all..

I never said those players mentioned were better than Bosh? I simply said that those players were a better inside presence than anything Miami has. Bosh plays the majority of time outside the paint settling for outside jump shots. Occasionally, he'll drive to the hoop to prove me wrong but those drives are far and few between. Hickson and Varejao don't necessarily create their own shots, but they play in the paint. Jamison and mo don't play in the paint, but the're capable of getting into the lane.




:lol Wade is brainwashed by Lebron?..

Well, Last year, Wade stood by his coach even praising him. This year in a presser after a loss, he was asked by a member of the media if Spo is your guy? His response was " I don't know if he's my guy, but he's my coach."


No, but there has also never been a team with 2 of the top 3 players in the NBA, in their primes, together, in the playoffs..


Shaq and Kobe don't count? I would argue that the Shaq and Kobe were better because they had the best of both worlds.

I'm not saying you don't bring up good points. I don't think Spo should be the scapegoat for all of the Heat's struggles. Some of the otis has to be on the players. And Cleveland had some very solid teams heading into the playoffs with Lebron leading the way and guess who got the blame for losing in the postseason? Not Lebron. I would even go as far as to say Cleveland had a better "team" than Miami does.

[DJ Mbenga]

so did anyone answer the question?

[Capt Bringdown]

Yet with Boston's fade, Miami probably has the best shot to beat the Lakers. Bosh can be effective & Wade can get to the foul line. James can provide support (snicker).
Getting to the foul line perhaps being the key to the deal - the only way to crack the Lakers puzzle, and it's a long shot.