Jordan vs. Kobe..

[HarlemHeat37]

Obviously there's no argument, if we're talking about prime Jordan..

However, Jordan of the 2nd 3-peat, where he was in his early to mid 30s vs. Kobe in his prime, from 2003 to 2007..

Which player would you take as your #1, if you wanted to win the title for that year?..how significant is the disparity?..

Jordan's mileage/wear and tear can be included in the argument..

[Koolaid_Man]

give me Bimbo Coles...

[Spursfan092120]

Again? Dude....

[IronMexican]

:lol create his own shot

[usdane]

Die.

[Cessation]

Still take Jordan. Put him on Bean's stacked laker team, and he'll get rings until he runs out of fingers.

[Koolaid_Man]

Still take Jordan. Put him on Bean's stacked laker team, and he'll get rings until he runs out of fingers.


I'll take a Klondike Bar please....

[ElNono]

MJ vs who?

[TDMVPDPOY]

give me the guy who doesnt fake his injuries to make it sound like his playing through injuries so the media can hype his series like its epic...

[Pauleta14]

It's an insult to Jordan to even compare him to Kobe (as great as this last one is)

it's not even close...

[Giuseppe]

If he gets that sixth, then we'll get down to the business of gettin' down.

Jordan is landlocked at 6. Therein rests Bryant's killing ground.

[Pauleta14]

If he gets that sixth, then we'll get down to the business of gettin' down.

Jordan is landlocked at 6. Therein rests Bryant's killing ground.

:lol

you can't compare them just to the number of ringd they have...

MJ is/has done so much more + didn't have the same help (O'Neil & Gasol)

[Giuseppe]

:lol

you can't compare them just to the number of ringd they have...

MJ is/has done so much more + didn't have the same help (O'Neil & Gasol)

Of course I can. When it was 6-3 Jordan you did.

Now that's it's 6-5 Jordan you're skulkin'.

[Pauleta14]

Of course I can. When it was 6-3 Jordan you did.

Now that's it's 6-5 Jordan you're skulkin'.


I didn't when it was 6-3 and I won't even if it's one day 6-10 !!!!

MJ's impact on the overall game, his defense, his scoring titles, ppg av...

I'm not a kobe hater, he is one of the greatest, but you can't deny that it helps when you play alongside the most dominant big ever and now plays with 2 7footers...

I hate seing great players being overated and that's Kobe's case IMO...

[ezau]

I didn't when it was 6-3 and I won't if it's one day 6-10 !!!!

MJ's impact on the overall game, his defense, his scoring title, ppg av...

I'm not a kobe hater, he is one of the greatest, but you can't deny that it helps when you play alongside the most dominant big ever and now plays with 2 7footers...

I hate seing great players being overated and that Kobe's case IMO...

You should realize that Giuseppe is nothing more than an old bitter man who got his ass spanked by the Vietnamese more than 40 years ago in Nam.

Until now, he's having nightmares of Ho Cho Minh shoving a bamboo pole right up his ass.

[Giuseppe]

Ez, on the rag again.

[crc21209]

No contest....

[Quit Hatin']

"Just got one more than mike"- Kobe Bryant June 2012

[namlook]

, he is one of the greatest, but you can't deny that it helps when you play alongside the most dominant big ever and now plays with 2 7footers...

I hate seing great players being overated and that's Kobe's case IMO...

You want to talk talent? I guess you are saying Bird and Magic were overrated too then. Bird needed three Hall Of Famers including two HOF bigs at the same time to win. He also had a HOF point guard. Then on top of three HOFers he also had a HOF 6th man of the year and former MVP for one of his rings. Magic had two HOFers including a 6 time MVP and the greatest scorer in NBA history.

Kobe has had only one (potential) Hall of Fame player at a time on his team for the five rings. Bird and Magic had a lot more top shelf talent. And Bird only won three.

Jordan had one HOFer on his championship teams. Although if Rodman eventually gets in (as he should) Jordan will have had two.

[Texas_Ranger]

oh man..........

[Giuseppe]

6-5 Jordan.

But, he's at Bryant's mercy.

& like Jordan taught him, taught him well, Bryant doesn't know the meaning of the word.

[Warlord23]

"Just got one less than Scottie"- Kobe Bryant June 2012

[Giuseppe]

Kobe: 5

Duncan: 4

Jordan: 6

tee, hee.

[Koolaid_Man]

Kobe: 5

Duncan: 4

Jordan: 6

tee, hee.

Kobe: 5

Duncan: 4

Robinson 2

Parker 3

Ginobili 3

Jordan: 6

[Koolaid_Man]

ohhh and winning rings in LA is worth way more than winning them in SA.

[ezau]

DPG: $ 500.....Oh wait

[Warlord23]

Kobe: 5

Duncan: 4

Jordan: 6

tee, hee.

Legitimate 1st option:
Jordan 6
Duncan 4
Shaq 3

Supporting player:
Scottie 6
Kobe 5

tee, hee

[ezau]

Legitimate 1st option:
Jordan 6
Duncan 4
Shaq 3

Supporting player:
Scottie 6
Kobe 5

tee, hee

And.... Robert Horry: 7

[Rummpd]

#1 in PER vs the over-rated Kobe (17th in PER) who ESPN also ran an astute article documenting his over-hyped and psuedo clutchness? Not even a question = Jordan until he retired the first time, was 2X the player Bryant ever was and a proven leader whose teams did not miss the playoffs. http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/per_career.html

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/23312/subjective-kobe-is-not-clutch

If Bryant was not giftwrapped Gasol + had that front line with him of Bynum and Odom he would be thought of as another McGrady or at best like Clyde Drexler. Over-rated to the core for Mr. 6 for 24!

Put Jordan at 33 on the Lakers and they would have won 70 games this year as Jordon would have gotten even more out of Gasol and Odom and would not take games off on defense as the over-rated Bryant in that category does too frequently.

[Venti Quattro]

#1 in PER vs the over-rated Kobe (17th in PER) who ESPN also ran an astute article documenting his over-hyped and psuedo clutchness? Not even a question = Jordan until he retired the first time, was 2X the player Bryant ever was and a proven leader whose teams did not miss the playoffs. http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/per_career.html

If Bryant was not giftwrapped Gasol + had that front line with him of Bynum and Odom he would be thought of as another McGrady or at best like Clyde Drexler. Over-rated to the core for Mr. 6 for 24!

Put Jordan at 33 on the Lakers and they would have won 70 games this year.

The Good Doctor with the goods, as per the usual

[stretch]

You want to talk talent? I guess you are saying Bird and Magic were overrated too then. Bird needed three Hall Of Famers including two HOF bigs at the same time to win. He also had a HOF point guard. Then on top of three HOFers he also had a HOF 6th man of the year and former MVP for one of his rings. Magic had two HOFers including a 6 time MVP and the greatest scorer in NBA history.

Kobe has had only one (potential) Hall of Fame player at a time on his team for the five rings. Bird and Magic had a lot more top shelf talent. And Bird only won three.

Jordan had one HOFer on his championship teams. Although if Rodman eventually gets in (as he should) Jordan will have had two.

And this is exactly why, IMO Kobe > Bird/Magic, and should without question be considered a top 5 player of all time.

[Riddler]

I'll take the one who didn't snitch and Rape

[Zelophehad]

And this is exactly why, IMO Kobe > Bird/Magic, and should without question be considered a top 5 player of all time.

Kobe's teams would win jack squat against those 80s teams.

[Rummpd]

No question in his prime Jordan would have outplayed Bryant. Bryant, who is super competitive would have battled Jordan and had his moments but could not hold a candle consistently to Jordan who is the GOAT (except plausible arguements can be made for Jabbar - especially, Russell and Chamberlain) vs. an alltime 5-15 NBA great but to talk about him as comparable to Jordan cannot be backed up by any look at NBA metrics. Come back to me when Bryant has 7 championships and has had a huge finals concluding game and/or has a PER late in his career near that of Jordan. Jordan like Duncan never lost a finals and dominated several - Byrant to this date has not and has been outplayed by the Pistons, Pierce and others during his spurious "annointing" of the media as a near GOAT to Jordan - he is simply not yet in the discussion.

[Rummpd]

I do put Kobe over Bird at this point.

[lefty]

I do put Kobe over Bird at this point.
wHAT ??? :rollin

[Capt Bringdown]

Magic had two HOFers including a 6 time MVP and the greatest scorer in NBA history.


Make that 3 HOFers: Kareem, Worthy and Bob McAdoo ('82 & '85). McAdoo was a former NBA Rookie of the year, NBA MVP, 3X NBA scoring leader and 5-time All-Star.

Granted McAdoo was on the tail end of his career with the Lakers, but he did come off the bench double figures and close to 6 boards a game in their '82 & '85 title runs.

Those 80's Lakers & Celtics teams were amazing.

[Giuseppe]

Legitimate 1st option:
Jordan 6
Duncan 4
Shaq 3

Supporting player:
Scottie 6
Kobe 5

tee, hee

But, we never did "1st option" at advantage Duncan.

And we ain't doin' now.

Kobe: 5

Duncan: 4

Jordan: 6

& Daddy-O, Jordan is helpless & inert at 6.

[Spur_Fanatic]

It's an insult to Jordan to even compare him to Kobe (as great as this last one is)

it's not even close...

THis.

[stretch]

Kobe's teams would win jack squat against those 80s teams.

80s = overrated

no defense, lazy rebounding, lots of quick (bad) shots being taken that were acceptable because of the complete lack of defense in that era

[lefty]

80s = overrated

no defense, lazy rebounding, lots of quick (bad) shots being taken that were acceptable because of the complete lack of defense in that era
The game was more physical

And there was that thing called handchecking

[ALVAREZ6]

I'll take the one who didn't snitch and Rape


weak

[Giuseppe]

weak

Al is more sensitive to the rape thing now that his Neal is part & parcel.

[Rummpd]

I personally put Bryant over Bird for the following reasons:

1) longer career - Bird's career cut short due to injuries
2) swap teams and I think it is about a wash except Kobe probably wins 4 titles with the 80s Celtics and that front line even without Bird there.
3) Bird was not as versitile a player, Bryant could easily fit in as a SF
4) When motivated I believe Bryant better defensively than Bird.
5) Bird is a top ten great but I have him right behind Magic who also had a short career but it is very close, but Magic's historic game where he played all 5 positions and filled in for Jabbar clinches this for me.

My list:

Jordan
or Jabbar case for each - I have them 1a and 1b with equal numbers of titles, similar MVPS and long standing dominance
Russell due to all time winner
Chamberlain
Oscar Robinson for his all around greatness and triple double year (Kobe has a chance to pass him at the end as does Duncan if either wins a couple more titles or has a strong finish, Kobe has a strong case to move up due to his better play this year)


Magic
Kobe or Duncan - valid and strong arguement can honestly be made for both
Bird
Shaq (others considered Hakeem, E. Baylor, West, Cousy, Malone - if had won a title or two would be top ten and right on the fringe Moses Malone with David Robinson, Havlichek (spelling and others having some cred.

[stretch]

The game was more physical

And there was that thing called handchecking

translation: defense was so shitty that they allowed fouling

[ALVAREZ6]

Al is more sensitive to the rape thing now that his Neal is part & parcel.

It's actually the opposite...I think it's weak because it is. They're NBA players, whether Kobe raped or not has nothing to do with this discussion. And, I've already stated my stance that I don't think Kobe raped, that bitch wanted it and got it.

[ChrisRichards]

Jordan has a real swagger. The kind that will make you respect him. You dont even have to like him but when he tells you to drop your pants and spread on all fours, not only will you do that but you'll be more than happy to lube your ass up to take this pounding.

.http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/2010/writers/jon_wertheim/01/18/trash.talking.nba/jordan-ewing.jpg
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/42119000/jpg/_42119552_jordan_getty.jpg
http://theshoegame.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/michael-jordan.jpg


I can't say the same for Kobe. Kobe to me is a whiny suburban bitch ass diva who walks around with a self of entitlement. He's also one of the biggest phony in the history of the league. I guess this is why players on the court doesn't respect him. See for yourself

.http://media.commercialappeal.com/media/img/photos/2009/06/06/7d6b_t300.jpeg


http://www.sportsbookgurus.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/Raja-Bell-257x300.jpg

http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/2010/writers/ian_thomsen/09/24/technicals/kobe-complain.jpg
http://earlyterminationoption.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/kobechilds.jpg

[Riddler]

It's actually the opposite...I think it's weak because it is. They're NBA players, whether Kobe raped or not has nothing to do with this discussion. And, I've already stated my stance that I don't think Kobe raped, that bitch wanted it and got it.

Then why did she get money out of it?

[lefty]

I personally put Bryant over Bird for the following reasons:

1) longer career - Bird's career cut short due to injuries
2) swap teams and I think it is about a wash except Kobe probably wins 4 titles with the 80s Celtics and that front line even without Bird there.
3) Bird was not as versitile a player, Bryant could easily fit in as a SF
4) When motivated I believe Bryant better defensively than Bird.
5) Bird is a top ten great but I have him right behind Magic who also had a short career but it is very close, but Magic's historic game where he played all 5 positions and filled in for Jabbar clinches this for me.



1) that's because Bird played a reckless style; you will never see that pussy Kobe dive for a lose ball

2) The 80's were all about team basketball; Kobe would have failed there or asked for a trade

3) comparing apples and oranges in this case; I can say that Bird could play as a PF, which he did, and that Kobe can't

4) " When Motivated " :lol
Like Kobe, Bird wouldnt play great D for 48 minutes, but he would often come up with the clutch defensive play

5) WTF does Magic have to do with Bird vs Kobe ????

[ALVAREZ6]

Then why did she get money out of it?

Gee, a dumb, young woman sees a top athlete of the planet, not only is attracted to him but also can say has had sex with said athlete to friends and win some nice cash on the side? I'd do it too if I were a chick.



What makes you think Kobe needs to rape any woman? You don't think he could immediately make 99% of women at any bar/club/anywhere for that matter follow him to his room and drop the pants? :rolleyes

[ALVAREZ6]

I can't wait until we hear about some young, dumb ass irrational college girl claiming Tom Brady, Chase Utley, or Cristiano Ronaldo raped her :lol

CROFL

[Giuseppe]

Jordan has a real swagger. The kind that will make you respect him.

Though Jordan trying to cop a ring by coming back at the end of a season was beneath contempt.

Orlando blocked him, thank goodness.

[Riddler]

Gee, a dumb, young woman sees a top athlete of the planet, not only is attracted to him but also can say has had sex with said athlete to friends and win some nice cash on the side? I'd do it too if I were a chick.



What makes you think Kobe needs to rape any woman? You don't think he could immediately make 99% of women at any bar/club/anywhere for that matter follow him to his room and drop the pants? :rolleyes

Wait, you're saying that just because he is kobe that he doesn't need to rape anybody? That is a weak argument because no body in this world needs to rape, yet they do anyway. Kobe was known for being an angry child, so who knows if he was ever told "no". Point is he wouldn't have needed to settle out of court if there wasn't some truth to raping her. But its good to know that you think high profile athletes are incapable of raping someone just because they hve celebrity status

[Daddy_Of_All_Trolls]

Seperated at birth?

http://i55.tinypic.com/29giznt.jpg

[Reck]

Topics like this should get locked or deleted on the spot.

[ALVAREZ6]

Wait, you're saying that just because he is kobe that he doesn't need to rape anybody? That is a weak argument because no body in this world needs to rape, yet they do anyway. Kobe was known for being an angry child, so who knows if he was ever told "no". Point is he wouldn't have needed to settle out of court if there wasn't some truth to raping her. But its good to know that you think high profile athletes are incapable of raping someone just because they hve celebrity status

No, not the sole reason, it's just a personal opinion. I'm just fed up with dumb bitches who try to do the same...bait athletes on for a specific reason like this, and it happens.

Kobe: Come to my room and get pounded
Chick: No
Kobe: Fine bitch, I'll just ask any other of the hundreds in line at this club alone


Seriously though, didn't the whole thing happen in his room? I forget how the story was, but if the girl consented to coming to the dude's room, don't tell me she didn't have intentions of gettin it on with Kobe. I highly doubt he dragged that ho to his room against her will...security, cops, somebody would have reported and/or stopped the whole thing. Don't really feel like rereading the story.

[Daddy_Of_All_Trolls]

No, not the sole reason, it's just a personal opinion. I'm just fed up with dumb bitches who try to do the same...bait athletes on for a specific reason like this, and it happens.

Kobe: Come to my room and get pounded
Chick: No
Kobe: Fine bitch, I'll just ask any other of the hundreds in line at this club alone


Seriously though, didn't the whole thing happen in his room? I forget how the story was, but if the girl consented to coming to the dude's room, don't tell me she didn't have intentions of gettin it on with Kobe. I highly doubt he dragged that ho to his room against her will...security, cops, somebody would have reported and/or stopped the whole thing. Don't really feel like rereading the story.
I won't list all the details, but as I recall, Kobe registered under an Hispanic alias, but Kate knew who he was when he checked in. She gave him the tour; spa, pool, room. She was flirting with him. Once in his room, they started kissing. Kate offered to show Kobe her tattoo. Now, where was it located? If it's on the small of her back, that's not suggestive, but if it's anywhere near her labia, that is. See, the problem is, only two people witnessed what really went on. Once her pomiscuity was proved (semen from the bellhop in her panties), and reasonable doubt as to whether if Kobe penetrated her and caused the vaginal injuries, Kate refused to testify and the DA dropped the case. Once the criminal charges were dropped, Kate persued civil action to get her paycheck, probably her plan all along, win or lose the criminal case. Actually had the case gone to trial and had Kobe won, I doubt Kate sees a penny in civil litigation. Anyway, it wasn't rape, as no conviction, and it wasn't a payoff by Kobe to drop charges. That's illegal and would have landed Bryant in the cooler. As far as Kobe throwing Shaq under the bus by saying he pays his women off, that's a black mark on Kobe, period.

[ChrisRichards]

I don't think Kobe raped that girl but the snitching part was pretty low tbh. I hate rats.

[HarlemHeat37]

Again, this is past his prime Jordan, not prime Jordan, so I don't know why some are bringing up prime Jordan's accomplishments..obviously there's no argument in that case..

[Rummpd]

Until Jordan was 36 or 37 he was better as far as leadership and all around game than even a "prime" Kobe - Kobe proved he was a great scorer but could not get it done as a leader sans Shaq/Gasol/Odom and now Bynum.

[Giuseppe]

Though Gasol could win nary a single playoff game till Kobe led him to it.

Jordan's time is finite.

Kobe is still at the con, with Jordan a fixed target before him. Without being told Bryant will work tirelessly & quietly to eclipse Jordan, like Knight did to surpass Smith. The books won't lie, Knight knew this, so he shut his mouth, went to Texas and finished it before they could get him to stop.

Bryant is calculating, devious, driven.

He'll dance on their graves when he's done.

[Giuseppe]

And regardless of how many he wins, it'll be an empty, hollow "victory".

Accolades aside, he'll never surpass Jordan as a basketball player and he knows it.

But, he can define the argument/debate if he gets the numbers in his favor (7-6). He knows that as well.

Bryant can rest then. He can enter his house justified.

[mindcrime]

But, he can define the argument/debate if he gets the numbers in his favor (7-6). He knows that as well.

Bryant can rest then. He can enter his house justified.

With that logic so can Horry.

Horry > Jordan

/thread

[Jelloisjigglin]

With that logic so can Horry.

Horry > Jordan

/thread

Horry for 3!

[mindcrime]

Horry for 3!

Original. Good job.

[Giuseppe]

With that logic so can Horry.

Horry > Jordan

/thread

Sure. Russell too. But, Bryant is wise enough to know the debate doesn't concern them. The debate is between himself & Jordan. These last two rings sealed it. Media will drive it in Jordan's favor. Bryant knows this. He can't control the spirit of the debate. He just controlled the activation of it, via '09 & '10.

He's also wise enough to not care about what is not within his control, whether that is judgment of rape, or, his place around Jordan. That is why what is within his control is so magnificent to Bryant. His talent enables him to smight & deny those who would "destroy" him, or, at least keep from him what he wants. It's a sociopathic pathogy, but, it's common amongst men of considerable physical & mental raw talent. The coupling of the physical & mental is a soup of volatility. Bryant has succeeded in harnessing his concoction, and he has every intention of making every person sorry who's ever crossed him.

[mindcrime]

Sure. Russell too. But, Bryant is wise enough to know the debate doesn't concern them. The debate is between himself & Jordan. These last two rings sealed it. Media will drive it in Jordan's favor. Bryant knows this. He can't control the spirit of the debate. He just controlled the activation of it, via '09 & '10.

He's also wise enough to not care about what is not within his control, whether that is judgment of rape, or, his place around Jordan. That is why what is within his control is so magnificent to Bryant. His talent enables him to smight & deny those who would "destroy" him, or, at least keep from him what he wants. It's a sociopathic pathogy, but, it's common amongst men of considerable physical & mental raw talent. The coupling of the physical & mental is a soup of volatility. Bryant has succeeded in harnessing his concoction, and he has every intention of making every person sorry who's ever crossed him.

:rollin
by doing what? sticking his jaw out at them?

[Giuseppe]

:rollin
by doing what? sticking his jaw out at them?

No. By getting to 7. That's all that is within his reasonable control. In his mind then he can stand down. They'll always throw stones and cast doubts as to the particulars, but, within his self trained psyche he'll have the 7 to Jordan's 6. That's enough for him.

[djohn2oo8]

No. By getting to 7. That's all that is within his reasonable control. In his mind then he can stand down. They'll always throw stones and cast doubts as to the particulars, but, within his self trained psyche he'll have the 7 to Jordan's 6. That's enough for him.

Why not get 8 and pass the all mighty Horry while he's at it? :lol

[Giuseppe]

Why not get 8 and pass the all mighty Horry while he's at it? :lol

Because it doesn't concern Horry, nor Russell. This is between Jordan & Bryant. And Media made this bed for only those two to occupy. There's too much print, too much money, too much Americana to reap for them to reframe the debate by including Horry, Russell, et al. "We" can do it because there is no risk, nothing for us to lose as our debate ranges over a large, diverse landscape. Media can't capture that. They want nothing to do with that boundless debate. With just an alive, and still vibrant Jordan and Kobe it's Media's dream. They don't want Kobe to get there (6 or 7), but, they don't want him to get there for a long time.

[Giuseppe]

you don't know very much about basketball if you really think kobe is anywhere near as good of a basketball player as jordan, regardless of rings

& you're just as subjective as I am, Ty.

[JamStone]

I think people are still confused in this thread. HarlemHeat has specifically stated at least twice now that he's talking about Jordan during the second Bulls threepeat and Kobe in his prime after Shaq and before Pau.

Statistical comparison:

Jordan 1995-98
38.1 MPG
29.6 PPG
6.1 RPG
4.0 APG
1.87 SPG
2.23 TO
48.2% FG
36.9% 3PT
49.8% 2PT
81.5 FT
27.5 PER

Kobe 2003-2007
40.3 MPG
30.1 PPG
5.6 RPG
5.2 APG
1.58 SPG
3.30 TO
44.8% FG
34.1% 3PT
48.1% 2PT
84.7% FT
25.4 PER

Jordan still wins, but it's a far closer comparison than comparing careers or only "in their prime" seasons. One might be able to argue it's a toss-up but I do think it still favors Jordan. I included 2 point shooting percentage to show that Kobe wasn't or isn't as inefficient as some think. He just chucks up more three pointers than Jordan used to (even older Jordan didn't shoot as many as Kobe has for most of his career). The 2 point shooting % is much closer.

Now statistical comparison helps but it certainly doesn't end the argument since they played in different eras. But it's hard to give concrete and/or indisputable evidence to say how the stats compare when you factor in era and competition. You look at the late 90s, and the best 2-guards in the game after Jordan were guys like Mitch Richmond, Reggie Miller, Allan Houston, Latrell Sprewell, and the younger up and coming guards like Eddie Jones, Michael Finley. Kobe and Ray were mere pups. And even back then, not nearly as many teams employed 2-guard defensive specialists like many teams (at least the better teams in the league) now do to counter the Kobes and Dwyane Wades of the league. But there's also the argument that defense was tougher in the 90s, they were allowed to flagrant foul without getting called for a flagrant foul much more often. The mid to late 90s Knicks and Pacers teams were extremely physical.

There are a ton of factors you can add into the equation. Jordan is, always has been, always will be better than Kobe. No matter what Kobe does the rest of his career, he'll never get to Jordan's level. Kobe can only hope to get to 7 rings so that he has one thing he can hang his hat on in the comparison. But even an older Jordan who had already started to slip statistically and in terms of his efficiency was probably slightly better than Kobe in his prime. Plus older Jordan still led his team to championships while Kobe in his prime failed to make the playoffs once and got ousted in the first round twice.

[JamStone]

Until Jordan was 36 or 37 he was better as far as leadership and all around game than even a "prime" Kobe - Kobe proved he was a great scorer but could not get it done as a leader sans Shaq/Gasol/Odom and now Bynum.

Leadership is subjective. Jordan's style was very much like Kobe's style. But Jordan could get away with it because he led his team to championships. We saw how that same type leadership played out when he went to Washington. His young teammates who adored him growing up ended up hating him because he was a bastard and jerk. It's the same style of leadership he had in Chicago. But when you win, all else is forgotten.

Kobe isn't necessarily a good leader. But I don't think Jordan was either. Winning forgives and forgets all the negative.

[JamStone]

You're welcome.

Jordan as an old declining man still > than 95.0% of all players in the history of the NBA.

It's not shocking. But at least I responded to the original post accordingly.

[KillerMamba]

Even as a Kobe fan, I just can't put him with MJ. Maybe if he ends his career with 7 or 8 rings, but not now.

[GoodOdor]

Even as a Kobe fan, I just can't put him with MJ. Maybe if he ends his career with 7 or 8 rings, but not now.

He could end with 8, he would still never be close.

[namlook]

He could end with 8, he would still never be close.

With 8 rings Kobe won't be close because he will have passed Jordan as a winner.

[redzero]

With 8 rings Kobe won't be close because he will have passed Jordan as a winner.

So Horry is more of a winner than Kobe and Jordan?

[mindcrime]

So Horry is more of a winner than Kobe and Jordan?

Thats exactly right. And on that note Dennis Rodman = Kobe Bryant because they both have 5 rings and because they both dress like homos.

http://hiphop.popcrunch.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/Kobe-Bryant-White-Photoshoot-LA-Times.jpg

http://www.foxnews.com/images/234684/0_61_102506_dennis_rodman.jpg

[Cessation]

Thats exactly right. And on that note Dennis Rodman = Kobe Bryant because they both have 5 rings and because they both dress like homos.

http://hiphop.popcrunch.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/Kobe-Bryant-White-Photoshoot-LA-Times.jpg

http://www.foxnews.com/images/234684/0_61_102506_dennis_rodman.jpg

lol

[namlook]

So Horry is more of a winner than Kobe and Jordan?

Don't be stupid. You don't get rings added to your resume if you weren't playing at an all-star level when you won them.