How long do you give this woman to live?

[DarrinS]

Pakistani actress was on an Indian version of "Big Brother" and, therefore, has brought shame to Pakistan and Islam. :rolleyes



pMnAmRa4NYw

[Blake]

I dunno.

How soon do you expect her to die?

[coyotes_geek]

I'm going to guess that not too many Pakistani muslims watch Indian Big Brother, so I'd say she's got quite a while.

[DarrinS]

I dunno.

How soon do you expect her to die?


Pretty soon, if she doesn't leave that country.


For example, this Pakistani politician wanted to abolish blasphemy laws. He was killed just this month.

oBTBqUJomRE

[TeyshaBlue]

This is the "Muslims R Bad" thread, right?

[DarrinS]

This is the "Muslims R Bad" thread, right?


Does the Pakistani actress have any reason to fear for her safety?

[coyotes_geek]

this is the "muslims r bad" thread du jour, right?

fify.

[TeyshaBlue]

Do you have any reason to fear for her safety?

[DarrinS]

Do you have any reason to fear for her safety?


No. Now you answer my question. Does she have any reason to fear for her safety? If so, why?

[CosmicCowboy]

she's hot.

[TeyshaBlue]

No. Now you answer my question. Does she have any reason to fear for her safety? If so, why?

Neither do I.http://www.audioandanarchy.com/images/smilies/fack.png

[TeyshaBlue]

she's hot.

Troof.:toast

[Blake]

Neither do I.http://www.audioandanarchy.com/images/smilies/fack.png

:lol

[ManuBalboa]

WouldWife&Protect/10

[ChumpDumper]

Do you believe all Muslims are bad, Darrin?

Yes or no.

[CosmicCowboy]

Do you believe all Muslims are bad, Darrin?

Yes or no.

I don't know about Darrin but I would like to cleave that muslim with my christian manhood and spew goodwill all over her tits.

[ChumpDumper]

But do you think she's evil?

[CosmicCowboy]

Of course not. Should I have put that in blue?

[ChumpDumper]

Should I have put that last question in blue for you?

It's not blue for Darrin, however.

[Spurminator]

Does the Pakistani actress have any reason to fear for her safety?

Yes.

Because she lives in fucking PAKISTAN. Idiot.

[Spurminator]

Do you think she would be in danger in a mosque near Ground Zero, Darrin? How about one in Murphreesboro, TN?

[DarrinS]

Do you think she would be in danger in a mosque near Ground Zero, Darrin? How about one in Murphreesboro, TN?


There are no honor killings on US soil.

[DarrinS]

Oh, but you may want to watch the trial of Muzzammil Hassan.

[ChumpDumper]

Do you think all Muslims are evil, Darrin?

[DarrinS]

Do you think all Muslims are evil, Darrin?


No, only the ones that are.

[ChumpDumper]

No, only the ones that are.And what percentage of them do you think are evil compared to Christians?

More?

Less?

About the same?

[LnGrrrR]

There are no honor killings on US soil.

Except for gang assassinations.

[DarrinS]

Except for gang assassinations.

Do you think that woman has anything to fear? If so, why?

Hint: It has nothing to do with geography. The FBI advised Seattle cartoonist, Molly Norris, to enter a kind of "witness protection program" for some strange reason. Why would they do that?

[Spurminator]

There are no honor killings on US soil.

You didn't answer the question. I answered yours.

Since your repetitive and hostile campaign against Muslims seemed to begin with the ridiculous NY Mosque issue, I want to understand whether you think American Muslims, as a whole, present the same danger that Pakistani Muslims do.

Or perhaps you have some other point you're trying to make. Stop being a pussy and say it.

[DarrinS]

You didn't answer the question. I answered yours.

Since your repetitive and hostile campaign against Muslims seemed to begin with the ridiculous NY Mosque issue, I want to understand whether you think American Muslims, as a whole, present the same danger that Pakistani Muslims do.

Or perhaps you have some other point you're trying to make. Stop being a pussy and say it.



I think Islalmic extremists are dangerous, not Muslims in general.


Why do you think Pakistani Muslims are more dangerous than American Muslims?

[Spurminator]

Oh, but you may want to watch the trial of Muzzammil Hassan.

Do you believe a significant number of American Muslims agree with what Hassan did?

[DarrinS]

But, what I may consider "extreme", many practitioners of Sharia may consider normal.

[LnGrrrR]

Do you think that woman has anything to fear? If so, why?

Hint: It has nothing to do with geography. The FBI advised Seattle cartoonist, Molly Norris, to enter a kind of "witness protection program" for some strange reason. Why would they do that?

If I grant that Muslims are more likely to perform honor killings than other Christians as a concession, would you be willing to make a guess at the percentage of the Muslim population that might be amenable to carry out said honor killing? And then estimate what percentage of, say, Christians would be willing to do the same?

[DarrinS]

Do you believe a significant number of American Muslims agree with what Hassan did?


What's the difference between an American Muslims and a Muslim from another country?


Major Nidal Hasan is an American Muslim.

[ChumpDumper]

What's the difference between an American Muslims and a Muslim from another country?


Major Nidal Hasan is an American Muslim.So how many American Muslims do you say want to kill Americans the way Hassan did?

[DarrinS]

If I grant that Muslims are more likely to perform honor killings than other Christians as a concession, would you be willing to make a guess at the percentage of the Muslim population that might be amenable to carry out said honor killing? And then estimate what percentage of, say, Christians would be willing to do the same?



I have no idea of what percentage of Muslims support honor killings and wouldn't venture to guess.

BUT, I don't think nearly the percentage of Christians would be willing to do the same.

[Spurminator]

I think Islalmic extremists are dangerous, not Muslims in general.

I don't think a lot of people would disagree with you. Maybe in terms of what qualifies as extreme.

I guess I'm not sure why you felt there were people here who would disagree that Pakistani women, like women in several poor theocratic states, are not treated as equals.


Why do you think Pakistani Muslims are more dangerous than American Muslims?

Because Pakistan is ruled under a puritanical Islamic theocracy, so the crazy types are held less accountable for atrocious acts.

[DarrinS]

So how many American Muslims do you say want to kill Americans the way Hassan did?



This focus on numbers is a clever distraction from the underlying problem, isn't it? Why did Hassan do what he did?

[ChumpDumper]

This focus on numbers is a clever distraction from the underlying problem, isn't it? Why did Hassan do what he did?No, it isn't a distraction at all.

You keep bringing these things up because you are scared shitless by Muslims.

This is your fear you are talking about. You should quantify it.

[Spurminator]

What's the difference between an American Muslims and a Muslim from another country?

Do you really think the brand of Islam taught in Pakistan is the same thing taught in most US mosques?

Is the brand of Christianity taught in Africa where children are killed because their neighbor accused them of witchcraft the same brand of Christianity taught in the states?

[DarrinS]

Because Pakistan is ruled under a puritanical Islamic theocracy, so the crazy types are held less accountable for atrocious acts.


Then how do you explain the numerous "honor killings" that take place in free societies?

[LnGrrrR]

I have no idea of what percentage of Muslims support honor killings and wouldn't venture to guess.

BUT, I don't think nearly the percentage of Christians would be willing to do the same.

If you don't think the numbers are the same, why not guess? You obviously have some number in your head of the amount of Muslims who would support it vs Christians.

[DarrinS]

No, it isn't a distraction at all.

You keep bringing these things up because you are scared shitless by Muslims.

This is your fear you are talking about. You should quantify it.



Does seeing a cartoon of Jesus make you go into a homicidal rage?

[ChumpDumper]

Does seeing a cartoon of Jesus make you go into a homicidal rage?You're talking about your fear of Muslims, Darrin.

Change your drawers and fess up.

[DarrinS]

You're talking about your fear of Muslims, Darrin.

Change your drawers and fess up.



Why would the cartoonist who started "Draw Mohammed Day" have to go into hiding?

[ChumpDumper]

Why would the cartoonist who started "Draw Mohammed Day" have to go into hiding?Why is there a pile of shit in your pants right now?

[Spurminator]

Then how do you explain the numerous "honor killings" that take place in free societies?

Fucked up people following a fucked up interpretation of their religion, preached by fucked up people who use it to stay in power or make money.

Like Africans murdering children accused of being witches.

[DarrinS]

Fucked up people following a fucked up interpretation of their religion, preached by fucked up people who use it to stay in power or make money.

Like Africans murdering children accused of being witches.



I agree, but I haven't heard many news stories of Americans burning witches at the stake.

[Spurminator]

Why did Martin Scorcese get death threats for directing The Last Temptation of Christ?

[DarrinS]

Why is there a pile of shit in your pants right now?



Why does this conversation make you so angry and juvenile?

[DarrinS]

Why did Martin Scorcese get death threats for directing The Last Temptation of Christ?

I didn't realize that. Is he still alive?

[Spurminator]

I agree, but I haven't heard many news stories of Americans burning witches at the stake.

I haven't heard "many" stories of "honor killings" by Muslims in America either.

I sure do hear about a shitload of murders though. I'm guessing Muslim honor killings make up a pretty small percentage of the murder rate...

[ChumpDumper]

Why does this conversation make you so angry and juvenile?I'm actually making fun of you.

How many hours a week do you spend being afraid of Muslims?

[ChumpDumper]

Why would the cartoonist who started "Draw Mohammed Day" have to go into hiding?Would that cartoonist have to go into hiding?

[Spurminator]

I didn't realize that. Is he still alive?

Yes. Is Molly Norris still alive?

[DarrinS]

I haven't heard "many" stories of "honor killings" by Muslims in America either.

I sure do hear about a shitload of murders though. I'm guessing Muslim honor killings make up a pretty small percentage of the murder rate...


Well, those stories would most likely be reported as murders.

[DarrinS]

Would that cartoonist have to go into hiding?


I suppose the FBI make a compelling case.

[ChumpDumper]

I suppose the FBI make a compelling case.So she didn't have to. She was simply acting out of fear. Just as you are posting out of fear.

[ChumpDumper]

So....
How many hours a week do you spend being afraid of Muslims?

[The Reckoning]

wow shes beautiful with those "aryan" eyes (real aryan, right?)

i love a woman who takes incentive

[LnGrrrR]

If you don't think the numbers are the same, why not guess? You obviously have some number in your head of the amount of Muslims who would support it vs Christians.

[DarrinS]

Why is the left so loathe to admit that the worldwide Muslim community has major issues? And has for a LONG time.

[ChumpDumper]

Why is the left so loathe to admit that the worldwide Muslim community has major issues? And has for a LONG time.Why are you so loathe to quantify your blanket pantshitting fear.

lol worldwide.

There you go again.

[DarrinS]

Why are you so loathe to quantify your blanket pantshitting fear.

lol worldwide.

There you go again.




Where are the major conflicts in the world right now?

[ChumpDumper]

Where are the major conflicts in the world right now?Just the ones that make you shit your pants?

[DarrinS]

Just the ones that make you shit your pants?


Why are you so angry and juvenile?

[ChumpDumper]

Why are you so angry and juvenile?Not angry at all. This is fun.

How many hours a week do you spend fearing Muslims?

[DarrinS]

This video is hilarious.

Ayaan Hirsi Ali talks about Major Hasan and the would-be Times Square bomber and gets this response from Tavis Smiley.

(I like the title too, lol "muslim hater" -- WTF do they think she is?)

fJS63E1Icvw

[ChumpDumper]

I will now attempt to dodge the question.How many hours a week do you spend fearing Muslims?

[DarrinS]

Not angry at all. This is fun.

How many hours a week do you spend fearing Muslims?


How many of your posts are two sentences, with one being a question?

I'm guessing about 40,000.

[ChumpDumper]

How many of your posts are two sentences, with one being a question?

I'm guessing about 40,000.How many hours a week do you spend fearing Muslims?

[DarrinS]

How many hours a week do you spend fearing Muslims?


<sigh> I have to answer the simple questions my children ask, so I guess I can answer yours.

I don't fear Muslims.

[ChumpDumper]

<sigh> I have to answer the simple questions my children ask, so I guess I can answer yours.

I don't fear Muslims.This thread and all your other Muslim threads prove you are lying.

You are setting a poor example for your children.

[DarrinS]

This thread and all your other Muslim threads prove you are lying.

You are setting a poor example for your children.


I might fear Muslims if I was a cartoonist who drew a satirical cartoon of Mohammed. I also might fear Muslims if I were the woman in the OP video.

[ChumpDumper]

I might fear Muslims if I was a cartoonist who drew a satirical cartoon of Mohammed. I also might fear Muslims if I were the woman in the OP video.It's OK that you are afraid of Muslims.

It's really stupid to claim you aren't after spending all this time posting about how scary they are.

Why lie?

[DarrinS]

It's OK that you are afraid of Muslims.

It's really stupid to claim you aren't after spending all this time posting about how scary they are.

Why lie?



I'm afraid for the woman in the OP.

[ChumpDumper]

I'm afraid for the woman in the OP.So you aren't afraid for others who get death threats from other groups.

Just the Muslims.

OK.

[Spurminator]

Well, those stories would most likely be reported as murders.

Riiiight. Yeah, our media wouldn't want to jump on the opportunity to scare us, would they?

So are we now using "probable" honor killings as evidence of the growing Muslim threat in America?

[Spurminator]

Why is the left so loathe to admit that the worldwide Muslim community has major issues? And has for a LONG time.

I'd say the world has serious issues, one of which is extreme fundamental Islamic theocracy in some Middle Eastern countries.

[Spurminator]

I might fear Muslims if I was a cartoonist who drew a satirical cartoon of Mohammed. I also might fear Muslims if I were the woman in the OP video.

I bet if you knew any Muslims you wouldn't be afraid of them even if you were either of those people.

You need to quit reading blogs by Michael Savage wannabes and actually talk to people.

[Stringer_Bell]

WouldWife&Protect/10

http://slantmouth.com/articles/mars-lander/images/respect.jpg


The most sexually repressed societies often have the largest instances of sexual deviation...religions shout down a woman's right to expression, while expecting her to be a nurterer and giver to the family. It's mind-boggling. Sometimes I wish there was no oil in the Middle East at all, then we wouldn't have to deal with societies that so readily demonize women and the female form.

[TeyshaBlue]

I'm afraid for the woman in the OP.

That's odd. Earlier in this thread you said you weren't.

[TeyshaBlue]

Do you have any reason to fear for her safety?



No. Now you answer my question. Does she have any reason to fear for her safety? If so, why?

Irrational behavior falls apart under the lightest scrutiny.

[Sec24Row7]

Islam is a huge problem if it is practiced in a way that promotes intolerance of Culture and people that are not Muslim.

That holds true for any religion.

Islam is especially a problem because of an overwhelming majority of believers that literally believe in handing out 1400 year old punishments for 21st century actions.

[DarrinS]

That's odd. Earlier in this thread you said you weren't.


Let me be clear. I think this woman is in danger. Does that thought make me, personally, afraid? No. If I conveyed that, I misspoke.

[DarrinS]

Irrational behavior falls apart under the lightest scrutiny.


What irrational behavior?

[Winehole23]

Islam is especially a problem because of an overwhelming majority of believers that literally believe in handing out 1400 year old punishments for 21st century actions.Presumably any old religion that has remained faithful to scripture is liable to the criticism that it is insufficiently progressive and up to date. Far from being a weakness, that may be counted as one of the main strengths of religious belief -- being focused resolutely on spiritual values that do not change.

Also, not everything that is modern and up to date is axiomatically superior to what it has replaced or is desirable in itself merely for being au courant.

[Winehole23]

That said, I doubt Islam is quantifiably more primitive than any other religion of comparable antiquity.

[Sec24Row7]

Presumably any old religion that has remained faithful to scripture is liable to the criticism that it is insufficiently progressive and up to date. Far from being a weakness, that may be counted as one of the main strengths of religious belief -- being focused resolutely on spiritual values that do not change.

Also, not everything that is modern and up to date is axiomatically superior to what it has replaced or is desirable in itself merely for being au courant.

That's wonderful! Especially if it makes it easier to thwart gender equality and tolerance of other cultures!!

What strikes me as so STUPID here on the part of many apologists for ISLAM is that often these same people are the ones who jump on ANY christian based movement like say... Creation in school books etc.

[Winehole23]

That's wonderful! Especially if it makes it easier to thwart gender equality and tolerance of other cultures!!You don't need old time religion for that, but sure, it can help. There are downsides to traditional belief, too. Are you allergic to complexity?

[Winehole23]

What strikes me as so STUPID here on the part of many apologists for ISLAM is that often these same people are the ones who jump on ANY christian based movement like say... Creation in school books etc.Like who? I'm not one of those people.

[clambake]

maybe she wants to be a martyr. this could be an invitation.

[Sec24Row7]

You don't need old time religion for that, but sure, it can help. There are downsides to traditional belief, too. Are you allergic to complexity?

I'm allergic to religious intolerance and the lack of freedom to believe as one wishes whether that god be green, blue, one of many, or non existent.

Islam is especially bad in this aspect considering... if you are born Muslim... you cannot leave. It's like the mob... the only way out is death...

If you convert to another religion other Muslims are legally allowed to kill you under Sharia!!!!

[Winehole23]

Islam is especially bad in this aspect considering... if you are born Muslim... you cannot leave. It's like the mob... the only way out is death...

If you convert to another religion other Muslims are legally allowed to kill you under Sharia!!!!How often does this happen and how widespread is the practice? That you crapped your pants is not evidence of something scary.

[Spurminator]

What strikes me as so STUPID here on the part of many apologists for ISLAM is that often these same people are the ones who jump on ANY christian based movement like say... Creation in school books etc.

You're not going to find many of those people who would tell you they're okay with Islamic Creationism being taught in science class either.

[jack sommerset]

More Muslims in the middle east need to speak out like she did. Call those douchebags out.

[Sec24Row7]

How often does this happen and how widespread is the practice? That you crapped your pants is not evidence of something scary.

Crapped my pants?

LoL...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy_in_Islam

[Winehole23]

How many apostates went to the blade? If killing them all is the current practice, you should have no problem quantifying it.

[Sec24Row7]

It's hard to quantify. There aren't stats. You google executions for apostasy and you just get tons of articles about individual examples...

There is no reason for me to have to defend the FREQUENCY or INFREQUENCY of its use...

The fact that it is an offense punishable by death is enough.

[Winehole23]

Under Levitical law all sorts of things (idolatry, adultery, homosexuality e.g.)are punishable by death. Harsh scriptural sanctions are hardly peculiar to Islam.

[Sec24Row7]

Under Levitical law all sorts of things (idolatry, adultery, homosexuality e.g.)are punishable by death. Harsh scriptural sanctions are hardly peculiar to Islam.

Nor did I say they were. You are trying to squirm around this like a worm to a hook.

[Winehole23]

Squirm around what? Every creed has its fundamentalists.

[Halberto]

More Muslims in the middle east need to speak out like she did. Call those douchebags out.

But they won't, and I don't blame them. I wouldn't risk myself and my loved ones being targeted by a group of crazy fuckers for some girl I don't know. They're worse than the mafia!

Chumpdumper, quit trying to make this all about DarrinS's view on Islam. Also, quit trying to act like the media is exaggerating the violence it produces (of course it does in some ways). You can't honestly believe that Christians are on the same level. It's time to drop the politically correct bullshit and realize that areas where Islam is the dominant religion and quality of life is low you can be sure that there will be a ton of violence. It always seems to work out this way, just look at Libya and Egypt.

[CosmicCowboy]

The problem is when governments have official religions. Heres a map of the world showing secular countries and countries with official religions. Is it any wonder that most of the the countries with the most blatant human rights violations and unrest also have official religions, and SPECIFICALLY the Muslim religion?

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_jLvOuM6dDjQ/TEAanGh1i3I/AAAAAAAAFkI/ZNtc7_MPFsI/s1600/Secular_world_map.gif

[ChumpDumper]

Chumpdumper, quit trying to make this all about DarrinS's view on Islam.Darrin makes it all about his view on Islam.
Also, quit trying to act like the media is exaggerating the violence it produces (of course it does in some ways).So I don't have to act. Thanks for agreeing with that.
You can't honestly believe that Christians are on the same level.Nice straw man.
It's time to drop the politically correct bullshit and realize that areas where Islam is the dominant religion and quality of life is low you can be sure that there will be a ton of violence. It always seems to work out this way, just look at Libya and Egypt.Now let's make it about your view on Islam.

"You can be sure."

"Always seems."

"a ton."

[Sec24Row7]

Squirm around what? Every creed has its fundamentalists.

Moderate Muslims turning radical?
Posted: February 15, 2008
1:00 am Eastern

© 2011

By Willam J. Federer

Britain's Daily Mail, Jan. 29, 2007, reported in the article "Multiculturalism drives young Muslims to shun British values":

Multiculturalism has alienated an entire generation of young Muslims and made them increasingly radical, a report has found. In stark contrast with their parents, growing numbers sympathize with extreme teachings of Islam, with almost four in 10 wanting to live under Sharia law in Britain. The study identifies significant support for wearing the veil in public … and even punishment by death for Muslims who convert to another religion. Most alarmingly, 13 percent of young Muslims said they "admired" organizations such as al-Qaida which are prepared to "fight the West."

Germany's Spiegel, Dec. 20, 2007, reported in the article "Interior Ministry warns of radicalization of Muslims":

A new study released by Germany's Interior Ministry has added new fuel to the debate about integration of Muslims in Germany, with the report warning about the danger of radicalization of Muslims. According to the study ... 40 percent of Muslims surveyed had a "fundamentalist orientation" ... 6 percent of those surveyed were classified as having "violent tendencies," while 14 percent of respondents had "anti-democratic" tendencies. ... The report also concluded that religious beliefs are becoming increasingly important for young people.


Read more: Moderate Muslims turning radical? http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=56286#ixzz1I0RA6RxV

So why do so many American Muslims oppose U.S. government policies described as preventive measures against attacks on the US by perpretators portrayed as Muslims?

It’s simple. Many Muslims in America don’t believe that any Muslims were involved in the 9/11 attacks. A 2007 Pew Research Center study found that 60 percent of Muslims in America are not convinced that Arabs were involved in 9/11; 40 percent do believe Arabs were involved. Pew confirmed the findings of a poll, conducted on the fifth anniversary of 9/11, at the Islamic Society of North America’s (ISNA) annual convention, which found that 62 percent of American Muslims are not convinced that Muslims were involved in 9/11; 38 percent do believe Muslims were involved. A 2002 Hamilton College/Zogby International poll of Muslims (citizens and non-citizens) living in America found that 66% are not convinced that Al Qaeda carried out the 9/11 attacks; 34% said Al Qaeda carried out the 9/11 attacks.

The poll at the ISNA convention also showed that most American Muslims are unconvinced that al-Qaeda is a real organization, operated by Muslims who are trying to attack America. (And the poll showed that most American Muslims are unconvinced that Muslims committed the July 2005 train and bus bombings in London.)

Many also believe that alleged plots discovered since 9/11 were set-ups by government informants, entrapping Muslims who posed no real threat to America. For example, skeptical Muslims cite the case of Shahawar Matin Siraj, who was found guilty of conspiring to blow up a NY subway station. Siraj claimed that he was entrapped by a Muslim informant, Osama Eldawoody, who was being paid by the NYPD. Siraj said the informant suggested the plot and incited him to act by showing him pictures of Muslims overseas being mistreated and by saying he had received a fatwa allowing Muslims to kill American troops. Wary Muslims also cite the case of Hamid Hayat, who was convicted of providing material support to terrorists by attending a terrorist training camp in Pakistan. Hayat claimed he was entrapped by a Muslim informant, Naseem Khan, who was being paid by the federal government. The informant encouraged Hayat to talk about fighting America, encouraged Hayat to attend a terrorist training camp, and cursed at Hayat when Hayat said he hadn’t yet attended the camp.

http://muslimsforasafeamerica.org/?p=83



:rolleyes

[Winehole23]

The problem is when governments have official religions. Heres a map of the world showing secular countries and countries with official religions. I it any wonder that the countries with the most blatant human rights violations and unrest also have official religions?Like Russia, China, Cuba, Congo, Ethiopia, Venezuela, Tibet and Syria? Good point.

[Winehole23]

Moderate Muslims turning radical?
Posted: February 15, 2008
1:00 am Eastern

© 2011

By Willam J. Federer

Britain's Daily Mail, Jan. 29, 2007, reported in the article "Multiculturalism drives young Muslims to shun British values":

Multiculturalism has alienated an entire generation of young Muslims and made them increasingly radical, a report has found. In stark contrast with their parents, growing numbers sympathize with extreme teachings of Islam, with almost four in 10 wanting to live under Sharia law in Britain. The study identifies significant support for wearing the veil in public … and even punishment by death for Muslims who convert to another religion. Most alarmingly, 13 percent of young Muslims said they "admired" organizations such as al-Qaida which are prepared to "fight the West."

Germany's Spiegel, Dec. 20, 2007, reported in the article "Interior Ministry warns of radicalization of Muslims":

A new study released by Germany's Interior Ministry has added new fuel to the debate about integration of Muslims in Germany, with the report warning about the danger of radicalization of Muslims. According to the study ... 40 percent of Muslims surveyed had a "fundamentalist orientation" ... 6 percent of those surveyed were classified as having "violent tendencies," while 14 percent of respondents had "anti-democratic" tendencies. ... The report also concluded that religious beliefs are becoming increasingly important for young people.


Read more: Moderate Muslims turning radical? http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=56286#ixzz1I0RA6RxV

So why do so many American Muslims oppose U.S. government policies described as preventive measures against attacks on the US by perpretators portrayed as Muslims?

It’s simple. Many Muslims in America don’t believe that any Muslims were involved in the 9/11 attacks. A 2007 Pew Research Center study found that 60 percent of Muslims in America are not convinced that Arabs were involved in 9/11; 40 percent do believe Arabs were involved. Pew confirmed the findings of a poll, conducted on the fifth anniversary of 9/11, at the Islamic Society of North America’s (ISNA) annual convention, which found that 62 percent of American Muslims are not convinced that Muslims were involved in 9/11; 38 percent do believe Muslims were involved. A 2002 Hamilton College/Zogby International poll of Muslims (citizens and non-citizens) living in America found that 66% are not convinced that Al Qaeda carried out the 9/11 attacks; 34% said Al Qaeda carried out the 9/11 attacks.

The poll at the ISNA convention also showed that most American Muslims are unconvinced that al-Qaeda is a real organization, operated by Muslims who are trying to attack America. (And the poll showed that most American Muslims are unconvinced that Muslims committed the July 2005 train and bus bombings in London.)

Many also believe that alleged plots discovered since 9/11 were set-ups by government informants, entrapping Muslims who posed no real threat to America. For example, skeptical Muslims cite the case of Shahawar Matin Siraj, who was found guilty of conspiring to blow up a NY subway station. Siraj claimed that he was entrapped by a Muslim informant, Osama Eldawoody, who was being paid by the NYPD. Siraj said the informant suggested the plot and incited him to act by showing him pictures of Muslims overseas being mistreated and by saying he had received a fatwa allowing Muslims to kill American troops. Wary Muslims also cite the case of Hamid Hayat, who was convicted of providing material support to terrorists by attending a terrorist training camp in Pakistan. Hayat claimed he was entrapped by a Muslim informant, Naseem Khan, who was being paid by the federal government. The informant encouraged Hayat to talk about fighting America, encouraged Hayat to attend a terrorist training camp, and cursed at Hayat when Hayat said he hadn’t yet attended the camp.

http://muslimsforasafeamerica.org/?p=83



:rolleyesA farrago of anecdotes and polls. What's the danger? That Muslims are as gullible, as willfully blind and as prone to irrationality as everyone else? Ho hum.

[Sec24Row7]

Like Russia, China, Cuba, Congo, Ethiopia*, Venezuela, Tibet and Syria? Good point.

Communism/Socialism as religion?

*communism holdover?

And Syria... lol... Please...

[Winehole23]

You make a reasonable point, but CC's hypothesis does not bear even momentary scrutiny.

[LnGrrrR]

One could say that America uses capitalism as a religion in some instances... and we're certainly not the most "peaceful" nation. :lol

[Sec24Row7]

A farrago of anecdotes and polls. What's the danger? That Muslims are as gullible, as willfully blind and as prone to irrationality as everyone else? Ho hum.

Squirm worm.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

You can't honestly believe that Christians are on the same level. It's time to drop the politically correct bullshit and realize that areas where Islam is the dominant religion and quality of life is low you can be sure that there will be a ton of violence. It always seems to work out this way, just look at Libya and Egypt.

so which do you attribute the violence to? Islam as the dominant religion or low quality of life.

and let me just :lmao at the notion that Christians are somehow above being violent.

I don't condone all the shit that goes on over in the mid east, but don't pretend like radical christian nut jobs don't behave violently too.

[Winehole23]

Squirm worm.Grumpypants.

[Halberto]

so which do you attribute the violence to? Islam as the dominant religion or low quality of life.

Things aren't that black and white. I would say that their poverty and oppression is the source, but weak minded and unintelligent people use Islam to justify their hate. The same thing happens here in the US (see Westboro Baptist Church) but to a magnitude much smaller than what we see in the middle east. There is plenty of hate and violence in the Bible (http://www.evilbible.com/) and although I'm not as familiar with the Quran as I am with the Bible, I think it is safe to say there is even more in the Quran. As far as I know Christianity rewards only a select few that are viewed as martyrs by naming them as saints, and even then they are the ones being attacked. Not only does Islam top that by promising virgins (lol sex in heaven) it endorses deceit and violence.

If I had to blame one it would be Islam. People don't blow themselves up because they're poor.


and let me just :lmao at the notion that Christians are somehow above being violent.

Sure Christians are violent, but provide some examples of recent mass murders in the name of Christianity aside from the events in Northern Ireland. Don't use any examples of those genocidal countries in Africa, that has more to do with revenge and greed than religion.

Even if you do dig something up, the point is that it's way more common in the middle east and there is a reason for that.


I don't condone all the shit that goes on over in the mid east, but don't pretend like radical christian nut jobs don't behave violently too.

I agree. I also believe that if somehow Christianity dominated a patch of area such as the middle east there would be some ridiculous evangelicals promoting violence as well.

Religion = intellectual bankruptcy

[Winehole23]

although I'm not as familiar with the Quran as I am with the Bible, I think it is safe to say there is even more in the Quran.Generalizing based on your own admitted ignorance. Risky.

Not only does Islam top that by promising virgins (lol sex in heaven) it endorses deceit and violence. Source?

If I had to blame one it would be Islam. People don't blow themselves up because they're poor.You don't have to blame one. Sometimes things are complex.

Sure Christians are violent, but provide some examples of recent mass murders in the name of Christianity aside from the events in Northern Ireland. Don't use any examples of those genocidal countries in Africa, that has more to do with revenge and greed than religion.The OKC bombing. Events in Northern Ireland and Africa might be valid too, despite your lame attempts to dismiss them.

Religion = intellectual bankruptcyYou don't have to be religious. Judging from what you just posted you're hardly above hasty generalization, begging the question and invidious parsing yourself.

[Spurminator]

http://i.imgur.com/HCGXD.png

[Viva Las Espuelas]

http://i.imgur.com/HCGXD.png

Um. Ok. I guess?

[LnGrrrR]

Um. Ok. I guess?

Not really surprised you don't get the humor behind this.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

Not really surprised you don't get the humor behind this.

No. I do. I totally get it. Does it represent what everyone thinks? No. That's why I posted what I did. I've posted before, there are extremists and moderates. I'm worried about the ----->extremists<------. I don't have a problem with people different than me. I know there's a lot of that out there. With all the "let's watch the rhetoric", I don't really think pics like that do anything to help.

Not really surprised that you assumed my thoughts behind my post. :toast

[RandomGuy]

Pretty soon, if she doesn't leave that country.


For example, this Pakistani politician wanted to abolish blasphemy laws. He was killed just this month.

oBTBqUJomRE

I believe I already noted that religious conservatives in Pakistan killed this liberal politician a while back.

Welcome to last week.

This is the kind of shit that happens when you start writing too much religion into laws.

[RandomGuy]

Things aren't that black and white. I would say that their poverty and oppression is the source, but weak minded and unintelligent people use Islam to justify their hate. The same thing happens here in the US (see Westboro Baptist Church) but to a magnitude much smaller than what we see in the middle east. There is plenty of hate and violence in the Bible (http://www.evilbible.com/) and although I'm not as familiar with the Quran as I am with the Bible, I think it is safe to say there is even more in the Quran. As far as I know Christianity rewards only a select few that are viewed as martyrs by naming them as saints, and even then they are the ones being attacked. Not only does Islam top that by promising virgins (lol sex in heaven) it endorses deceit and violence.

If I had to blame one it would be Islam. People don't blow themselves up because they're poor.

Sure Christians are violent, but provide some examples of recent mass murders in the name of Christianity aside from the events in Northern Ireland. Don't use any examples of those genocidal countries in Africa, that has more to do with revenge and greed than religion.

Even if you do dig something up, the point is that it's way more common in the middle east and there is a reason for that.

I agree. I also believe that if somehow Christianity dominated a patch of area such as the middle east there would be some ridiculous evangelicals promoting violence as well.

Religion = intellectual bankruptcy

I am pretty certain that if you mired enough Christians in poverty and the only education they got was in stilted "bible study" schools that engendered an obvious xenophobia you would get very similar results.

That is, essentially, the Pakistani educational system. It is much less a function of Islam or any given religion itself, and much more a function of primitive tribalism.

[Sec24Row7]

Halberto doesn't believe in sex in heaven? Yuck... Honesty... Lol...

If Muslims want to have bad virgin sex for eternity let them...

[Sec24Row7]

I am pretty certain that if you mired enough Christians in poverty and the only education they got was in stilted "bible study" schools that engendered an obvious xenophobia you would get very similar results.

That is, essentially, the Pakistani educational system. It is much less a function of Islam or any given religion itself, and much more a function of primitive tribalism.

Yep! I'm always looking over my shoulder in Amish country.

[DarrinS]

I am pretty certain that if you mired enough Christians in poverty and the only education they got was in stilted "bible study" schools that engendered an obvious xenophobia you would get very similar results.

That is, essentially, the Pakistani educational system. It is much less a function of Islam or any given religion itself, and much more a function of primitive tribalism.


Yes, there are wackjob Christian groups (Westboro Baptists come to mind), but 99.9999% of Christians would dismiss these people for the fucktards that they are. BUT, even as extreme as the Westboro Baptists are, even THEY aren't out blowing themselves up for God.

[RandomGuy]

Yes, there are wackjob Christian groups (Westboro Baptists come to mind), but 99.9999% of Christians would dismiss these people for the fucktards that they are. BUT, even as extreme as the Westboro Baptists are, even THEY aren't out blowing themselves up for God.

Indeed, most Christians in this country aren't mired in poverty with the only education they got being in stilted "bible study" schools that engender an obvious xenophobia.

The home schooling phenomena may change this. I would certainly describe my wife's relatives that home school as xenophobic and their education stilted, but that is a whole other kettle of fish.

I dont' see Christianity as being any different than Islam. The only real difference between "99.9999%" of Christians in the US and Muslims in Pakistan is a thin veneer of wealth and secular education.

It is that prevalence of secular,*liberal* education that keeps "99.999999%" of Christians in the US from being just as xenophobic as the products of the radical madrassas.

Gotta chafe, doesn't it?

[RandomGuy]

If you really want to get into the suicide bombers, you get irrational behavior in any cult, and the majority of muslims would ascribe suicide bombers as cultists.

[LnGrrrR]

Not really surprised that you assumed my thoughts behind my post. :toast

Touche.

[Halberto]

Generalizing based on your own admitted ignorance. Risky.

Am I not allowed to acknowledge that I may be wrong?


Source?

Never heard of Sharia law? If not, read up on it. It's pretty shocking how widely accepted it is. Even in Britian there are communities using variations of it.

As for the virgins, here is a translation from the Quran itself: "Verily, for the Muttaqun [righteous], there will be a success (paradise); gardens and grapeyards; and young full-breasted (mature) maidens of equal age; and a full cup (of wine)" (An-Naba 78:31-34).


The OKC bombing. Events in Northern Ireland and Africa might be valid too, despite your lame attempts to dismiss them.

Even if you do want to refer to those situations do you really think they're comparable to what we see in the middle east? I'm sorry, it's just not very often that I hear about a Christian reciting chants and proceeding to blow themselves up or decapitate someone.


You don't have to be religious. Judging from what you just posted you're hardly above hasty generalization, begging the question and invidious parsing yourself.

:rolleyes Yes, I clearly have an uneducated opinion on this. This is just a reflection of the media and my peers around me. I even acknowledged previously that I may be wrong.

[Winehole23]

Never heard of Sharia law? If not, read up on it. It's pretty shocking how widely accepted it is. Even in Britian there are communities using variations of it.Having both Judaism and Roman Catholicism in my family background, I'm not bothered by any notion or system of spiritual law. To more modern, secular sensibilities it may seem strange -- but historically it's not very distinctive.


As for the virgins, here is a translation from the Quran itself: "Verily, for the Muttaqun [righteous], there will be a success (paradise); gardens and grapeyards; and young full-breasted (mature) maidens of equal age; and a full cup (of wine)" (An-Naba 78:31-34). This drives men to blow themselves up? I wonder. Seems like there's a few steps missing in the syllogism.

Even if you do want to refer to those situations do you really think they're comparable to what we see in the middle east? In kind, yes.

[DarrinS]

Indeed, most Christians in this country aren't mired in poverty with the only education they got being in stilted "bible study" schools that engender an obvious xenophobia.


Meh, lots of really poor people in the world aren't blowing themselves up for their God.




The home schooling phenomena may change this. I would certainly describe my wife's relatives that home school as xenophobic and their education stilted, but that is a whole other kettle of fish.


I never understood people that hate home schooling. With my kids in public school, I get to see the watered-down shit they are being taught. I can understand why some might choose home schooling -- but it takes some serious dedication. Don't see where xenophobia fits in.





I dont' see Christianity as being any different than Islam. The only real difference between "99.9999%" of Christians in the US and Muslims in Pakistan is a thin veneer of wealth and secular education.


Then you don't see the obvious.

I'll be generous and say that only 0.5% of Muslims may be of the radical variety. There are 1 billion Muslims in the world. You do the math.

By the way, in terms of wealth, India is not far off from Pakistan, and Hindus aren't blowing themselves up.

[DarrinS]

The OKC bombing.


This example is a fail every time it is used. Why not throw Columbine in there too, Tavis?

[Winehole23]

Why is it a fail? It's payback for Mt. Carmel and Ruby Ridge.

[DarrinS]

Why is it a fail? It's payback for Mt. Carmel and Ruby Ridge.

Sorry, read it out of context. My bad.