Tie-breaker with Lakers

[honestfool84]

I never thought it would come down to this... but unfortunately, it looks like this might be a possibility.


With one more game being played between the Lakers and Spurs, if the Lakers win that game and that happens to tie up the record, who would get HCA?

[zocool16]

The Lakers win. The next tiebreaker is division record. They have a better record there.

[honestfool84]

The Lakers win. The next tiebreaker is division record. They have a better record there.

does that take into account that the Spurs have a more difficult division?

[Spurs Brazil]

Playoff Tie-Break Procedures

Teams 1 to 4 in each conference are the three division winners and the team with the next best regular-season record, with the seeding of these four teams determined by regular-season record. The playoffs seedings of Teams 5 to 8 are based upon regular-season record. Ties are broken pursuant to the rules set forth below.

Ties for playoff positions (including division winners) will be broken utilizing the criteria set forth in subparagraph a. below (in the case of ties involving two teams) and subparagraph b. below (in the case of ties involving more than two teams), and the guidelines set forth in subparagraph c. below.

a. Two Teams Tied b. More Than Two Teams Tied
(1) Better winning percentage in games against each other. (1) Better winning percentage in all games among the tied teams.
(2) Better winning percentage against teams in own division (only if tied teams are in same division). (2) Better winning percentage against teams in own division (only if all tied teams are in the same division).
(3) Better winning percentage against teams in own conference. (3) Better winning percentage against teams in own conference.
(4) Better winning percentage against teams eligible for playoffs in own conference (including teams that finished the regular season tied for a playoff position). (4) Better winning percentage against teams eligible for playoffs in own conference (including teams that finished the regular season tied for a playoff position).
(5) Better winning percentage against teams eligible for playoffs in opposite conference (including teams that finished the regular season tied for a playoff position). (5) Better net result of total points scored less total points allowed against all opponents ("point differential").
(6) Better net result of total points scored less total points allowed against all opponents ("point differential").

c. Guidelines For Applying Tie-Break Criteria. The following guidelines shall be used when applying the above criteria to break ties for playoff positions:

(1) (a) Since the three division winners are guaranteed a spot in the top four, ties to determine the division winners must be broken before any other ties.
(b) When a tie must be broken to determine a division winner, the results of the tie-break shall be used to determine only the division winner and its playoff position, not any other playoff position(s).

(2) If a tie involves more than two teams, the tie-break criteria in subparagraph b. shall be applied in the order set forth therein until the first to occur of the following:
(a) Each of the tied teams has a different winning percentage or point differential under the applicable tiebreak criterion (a "complete" breaking of the tie). In this circumstance, the team with the best winning percentage or point differential under the criterion will be awarded the best playoff position, the team with the next-best winning percentage or point differential will be awarded the next-best playoff position, and so on, and no further application of the tie-break criteria will be required.
~OR~
(b) One or more (but not all) of the tied teams has a different winning percentage or point differential under the applicable tie-break criterion (a "partial" breaking of the tie). In this circumstance: (x) any team(s) that performed better under the applicable criterion than any other team(s) will be awarded a higher playoff position than such other team(s); and (y) teams that had equivalent performance under the applicable criterion will remain tied, and such remaining tie(s) will be broken by applying, from the beginning, the criteria in subparagraph a.(1)-(6) above (for any remaining tie involving only two teams) or subparagraph b.(1)-(5) above (for any remaining tie involving more than two teams) and the guidelines set forth in this subparagraph c.

(3) If application of the criteria in subparagraph a. or b. does not result in the breaking of a tie, the playoff positions of the tied teams will be determined by a random drawing.

d. Home Court Advantage:For purposes of home court advantage, ties will be broken pursuant to the procedures used for breaking two-team ties for playoff position.

http://www.nba.com/standings/team_record_comparison/conferenceNew_Std_Cnf.html

[DesignatedT]

The next tie-breaker would be Conference Record not division record.

It is only division record when the 2 teams are in the same division but in this case it wouldn't be (Lakers-Pacific, Spurs-Southwest) so it would go to conference record.

[honestfool84]

? i am still confused... help?

[Budkin]

The next tie-breaker would be Conference Record not division record.

It is only division record when the 2 teams are in the same division but in this case it wouldn't be (Lakers-Pacific, Spurs-Southwest) so it would go to conference record.

So would it be us or them?

[Thompson]

We're 35-11 against the Western Conference, they're 32-11; the fact that 'they beat us' in that scenario to force the tiebreaker means we'd have at least 12 losses to the W.C.; they'd have to pick up at least 1 more loss to a W.C. team to push it to the next tiebreaker. Otherwise, they'd win.

I think if it made it to the next tiebreaker (best record against playoff teams in own conference) we'd win because of their early-season slump against good teams; I'm not certain, though, because I don't know where to find those statistics.

[Disturbed]

If its conference record as it stands now its Spurs 35-11 to Lakers 32-11. Spurs have 2 more games against the East (Celtics/Hawks). If Spurs lose enough to where it would actually come down to a tie breaker that would probably mean Spurs lost some games vs the West in the process. Of course it wouldn't matter if Spurs beat the Lakers in LA the 2nd to last game of the season where both team might have their full rosters. If Lakers beat them then that would just be another conference win for LA and another loss for the Spurs.

I didn't think this would even be close to a possibility but Duncan's injury has opened it up to being possible. Should be and interesting finish to the season. I doubt it happens since I dont expect the Lakers to win out. They nearly lost to the Wolves, Suns at home recently. They aren't unbeatable right now. A real good game from someone else might catch the Lakers sleeping. As a Laker fan im just hoping Lakers can lock up the 2nd best record in the NBA and the West.

[DJ Mbenga]

dont worry about the tie breaker. it wont come down to it. the lakers just want the 2nd overall seed in the nba not the top in the west. they are perfectly comfortable getting dallas in the 2nd round instead of okc

[crc21209]

The Spurs have 6 games remaining against Western Conference teams: @ Houston, vs. Phoenix, vs. Sacramento, vs. Utah, @ Lakers, and @ Phoenix.

The Lakers have 9 games remaining against Western Conference teams: vs. Dallas, @ Utah, vs. Denver, vs. Utah, @ Golden State, @ Portland, vs. Oklahoma City, vs. San Antonio, and @ Sacramento.

[honestfool84]

awesome. thank you!

[duncan228]

Spurs are no longer out of sight or out of mind for Lakers (http://www.latimes.com/sports/basketball/nba/lakers/la-sp-lakers-spurs-20110329,0,6559391.story)
San Antonio has lost four in a row, and its once-unassailable lead in the West is down to 31/2 games over second-place L.A. Some Lakers are daring to dream an impossible dream — winning the race for best overall record.
By Mike Bresnahan
LA Times

There were plenty of blunders earlier this season — and, yes, some as recently as last month — but the Lakers finally see something ahead of them.

It's not the finish line. It's the staggering San Antonio Spurs.

The Lakers suddenly have a Texas-sized carrot in front of them for their final nine games: San Antonio is down to a 31/2 -game lead atop the Western Conference after another loss Monday.

The Spurs' four-game losing streak is entirely injury-driven, their Big Three limping a lot these days, be it Tim Duncan (sprained ankle), Manu Ginobili (bruised thigh) or Tony Parker (bruised knee). All three sat out Monday's home loss to Portland.

The Lakers have noticed.

"There's a lot of motivation," guard Shannon Brown said. "We know their situation. We know they're trying to get home court. They've been playing well all year. If we can catch them and get home court, that'll be the best thing."

It would require a complete collapse by the Spurs, though the Lakers haven't been this close to them since losing three in a row at the end of November.

The Lakers (53-20) have won a well-documented 15 of 16 since the All-Star break, when they trailed San Antonio by nine games. The 15-1 surge also has allowed them to pull even with Chicago for the NBA's second-best record.

San Antonio's next four games are against teams that are in the playoffs or in the hunt: Boston, Houston, Phoenix and Atlanta. The Spurs (57-17) also play the Lakers at Staples Center on April 12.

Duncan's injury is being called day-to-day, but it seems more week-to-week. Ginobili could not finish Sunday's loss to Memphis and Parker joined them on the sideline Monday.

It was Parker who tried to sound in control after the Spurs fell to Memphis.

"We don't have time to worry about [injuries]," he told reporters. "Timmy is not coming back any time soon, so we just have to keep playing and make sure we pound that rock. Hopefully, it will go our way."

Not all the Lakers are showing interest in the Spurs.

"It doesn't matter to us whether we catch them or not," Kobe Bryant said. "We try to win every game. If we catch them, so be it. If we don't, so be it."

Before the Lakers took the court Sunday against New Orleans, Derek Fisher walked past a TV in the locker room just as Memphis was finishing off San Antonio. Fisher showed no expression. In fact, he didn't even stop.

For what it's worth, the Lakers trail the Spurs in the season series, 2-1.

For all the criticism heaped upon them before the All-Star break, not to mention the angst of a fan base that yelped with every surprising loss, the Lakers are now on pace to surpass their victory total from last season (57).

They could even hit the impressive 60-victory plateau, which would give them a better record than they had in the last two steps of their "three-peat" in the early 2000s.

The Lakers face a more immediate threat this week, a Dallas team that doesn't seem to realize it's been without Caron Butler for almost three months.

The Mavericks (52-21) are only a game behind the Lakers for second in the West. The teams play each other for a third and final time Thursday at Staples Center.

The season series is tied at 1-1, with Thursday's winner owning the first playoff tiebreaker.

"We want to secure our spot, so beating them would pretty much do that for us," Andrew Bynum said.

http://www.latimes.com/sports/basketball/nba/lakers/la-sp-lakers-spurs-20110329,0,6559391.story

[crc21209]

That article is a little misleading. Other than Boston, Houston, Phoenix, and Atlanta are pretty much locked into their spots already. It will be a long shot for Houston and Phoenix to get into the Playoffs at all, moreso Phoenix than Houston. And Atlanta is basically locked into the 6th seed in the East...

[tuncaboylu]

Now they've got the motivation and i hope Kobe would be injured when they try to get top seed.

[Venti Quattro]

Now they've got the motivation and i hope Kobe would be injured when they try to get top seed.

Classy franchise with a classy fan base :hat :hat :hat

Wishing injuries to other players... haven't you had enough karma already? :hat :hat :hat

[SplitterHook]

We're 35-11 against the Western Conference, they're 32-11; the fact that 'they beat us' in that scenario to force the tiebreaker means we'd have at least 12 losses to the W.C.; they'd have to pick up at least 1 more loss to a W.C. team to push it to the next tiebreaker. Otherwise, they'd win.

I think if it made it to the next tiebreaker (best record against playoff teams in own conference) we'd win because of their early-season slump against good teams; I'm not certain, though, because I don't know where to find those statistics.

Well, I couldn't find that info too but looking at it without being precise then here are the numbers:

lakers are 26-13 against teams over.500 and only one team .500+ isn't a playoff team (houston) while Spurs are 26-15 against .500+ teams..

Spurs are 3-0 against houston, that means our record against playoff teams with .500+ record is 23-15 while Lakers are 24-12.

I'm excluding the two teams in the east with losing record that gonna make the playoffs but considering that Spurs have to lose 3 more times (one needs to be against the lakers) to us get this deep into the tiebrakers it's pretty much a lock that lakers will have the best conference record and therefore gonna win the tie-brake against the Spurs.

tl;dr: If spurs lose two games more than the lakers until we face them in our last game in the regular season then that game will decide the #1 seed in the west.

The winner gets the #1 seed.

[Rummpd]

We face LAL the 2nd last game and next is a back to back. What a tough schedule this has been but the good thing is Splitter and Hill are emerging.

[duncan228]

Lakers a 'long shot' to catch Spurs (http://sports.espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/news/story?id=6271532)
By Dave McMenamin
ESPNLosAngeles.com

..."It's still a real long shot," Jackson said of the possibility of overtaking the Spurs for the top seed in the West with just nine games left to play. "They only have to win a couple games here [down the stretch] and we have to go perfect. So, it's real difficult to see that [happening]."

http://sports.espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/news/story?id=6271532

[easy7]

Classy franchise with a classy fan base :hat :hat :hat

Wishing injuries to other players... haven't you had enough karma already? :hat :hat :hat

This man speaks the truth. If the Spurs are not good enough to beat them at full strenght, they don't deserve to be champs.

[spurs10]

In the games leading to the final Lakers game of the regular season. We have 6 games left to their 7. If they go 7-0 and we go 4-2, we'd still be up 1 game on them, but would need to win as to not be tied. Again, Jackson is right, it's very unlikely this happens...they'd have to win 3 more games than us and then beat us. Won't happen....

[DMC]

Now they've got the motivation and i hope Kobe would be injured when they try to get top seed.
No.

I would like to have a fully healthy Lakers team so they all get into the "we lost" pic.

[honestfool84]

In the games leading to the final Lakers game of the regular season. We have 6 games left to their 7. If they go 7-0 and we go 4-2, we'd still be up 1 game on them, but would need to win as to not be tied. Again, Jackson is right, it's very unlikely this happens...they'd have to win 3 more games than us and then beat us. Won't happen....

who hear would have ever thought we'd even be having this conversation? i don't think anyone of us ever thought the Lakers would have a chance being up 7 games on them.

[honestfool84]

BTW - here's an article off of NBA.com


HOME COURT IN FINALS UP FOR GRABS (http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2011/03/29/home-court-in-finals-up-for-grabs/?ls=iref:nbahpt1)

The San Antonio Spurs have had a stranglehold on the league’s best record for a while now. But with Monday’s loss to the Blazers, their lead over both the Bulls and Lakers is down to three games in the loss column.

http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/7213/screenshot20110330at103.png

If either Chicago or L.A. were to win the rest of its games, the Spurs would have to finish the season 6-2 to ensure the top overall seed. They currently have the head-to-head tiebreaker over the Lakers, but face L.A. at Staples Center on April 12 (the next-to-last day of the season) in a game that may have a lot riding on it.

Of the two teams tied with 20 losses, the Bulls have a much easier schedule and a better chance of winning out. The Bulls and Spurs split their season series, so their tiebreaker, should they meet in The Finals, would be their record against the opposing conference.
San Antonio is 22-6 against the East with games vs. Boston (Thursday) and at Atlanta (April 5) remaining. Chicago is 21-7 against the West with games at Minnesota (Wednesday) and vs. Phoenix (April 5) remaining. The Bulls seem to have the advantage there, playing the two easiest of the four games.

Should the Bulls and Spurs finish the season with the same record and the same record against the opposite conference, the tiebreaker for home-court advantage in a prospective Finals matchup would be determined by a random drawing. That would make for an interesting scenario. But what are the chances the Bulls and Spurs meet in the Finals?

In the last 10 years, only once have the top seeds from the two conferences each made The Finals. That was in 2008, when the Celtics beat the Lakers.

Right now, the East seems wide open. The Bulls own the best record, the Celtics have the championship experience and the Heat have the most top-line talent. But in the West, the Lakers — with two titles under their belt and a 15-1 record since the All-Star break — are looking like stronger favorites than they were a month ago.

The Lakers may not have home-court advantage against the Spurs, but they won in San Antonio on Feb. 18. Plus, home-court advantage is clearly more important in The Finals (with its 2-3-2 format) than it is in the first three playoff rounds (2-2-1-1-1). The team with the home-court advantage has won 20 of the 26 Finals series since the format changed in 1986.

When it comes to seeding, it may be more important to pay attention to the Lakers’ record than that of the Bulls, Celtics and Heat. L.A. split its season series against both Boston and Chicago, but lost both meetings with Miami.

http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/7435/screenshot20110330at105.png

The Lakers are done with games against the East, so they’ve clinched the cross-conference tie-breaker with Boston. But the Bulls have the edge over L.A. and would need to beat either Minnesota or Phoenix to clinch the tie-breaker.

The Heat would need to make up a two-game deficit to earn home-court advantage in a Finals matchup with the Lakers, but no team has a better chance to win the rest of their games than Miami. Their schedule is straight cupcakes until they face the reeling Celtics and reeling Hawks in the final week of the season. The Heat have won eight of their last nine games.

The prospect of another Finals Game 7 at the Staples Center looks like a distinct possibility with how the Lakers are now playing.* But between now and April 13, there are still a lot of games to be played. And if there is a Game 7 for a second straight year, the location will likely be determined over the next 16 days.

*that line is really, really annoying to hear from a "supposedly unbiased" news source as NBA.com

[spurs10]

who hear would have ever thought we'd even be having this conversation? i don't think anyone of us ever thought the Lakers would have a chance being up 7 games on them.
Yeah, I know what you mean, but 3.5 is a good place to be right now. If the Bulls or Lakers win out, it won't be the standings I'll be concerned about. For once I agree with Kobe, we should try to win every game. If they catch us so be it, if not, so be it. How we play the last 8 games is what matters. If we continue playing like we have all year, and better, then I like our chances.

[duncan228]

Mike Monroe: Health is more vital than top seed (http://blog.mysanantonio.com/spursnation/2011/03/29/mike-monroe-health-is-more-vital-than-top-seed/)
Mike Monroe

There’s panic in South Texas.

With key players battling injuries, the Spurs have lost four straight games.

First place in the Western Conference no longer seems certain.

Suddenly sizzling, the Lakers are in hot pursuit, a once-daunting gap narrowing.

Should the Spurs drop into second place in the West, a segment of their fans will blame Gregg Popovich for being too cautious with players nursing aches and pains when Monday’s game against the Trail Blazers arrived.

Second-guessers insist Tony Parker and Antonio McDyess would have guaranteed victory in that game. After all, a lineup that included deep reserves Danny Green, Chris Quinn and Steve Novak nearly pulled out a victory.

This is a fan’s logic and ignores reality.

Keep reading... (http://blog.mysanantonio.com/spursnation/2011/03/29/mike-monroe-health-is-more-vital-than-top-seed/)

http://blog.mysanantonio.com/spursnation/2011/03/29/mike-monroe-health-is-more-vital-than-top-seed/

[FromWayDowntown]

The end game for the #1 seed in the event of a tie has actually become very simple.

If the teams somehow end up tied, the winner of the tiebreaker will be the winner of the game on April 12.

If the Spurs win that game, they clinch the season series and win the first tiebreaker.

If the Lakers win that game, they tie the season series and invoke the next tiebreaker -- conference record. If the teams end up in a tie, the Spurs cannot have a better conference record than LA under any circumstances, because the Spurs will have had a better record against the East than LA.

[duncan228]

Popovich plays the odds as Spurs slip (http://nba-point-forward.si.com/2011/03/29/popovich-plays-the-odds-as-spurs-slip/)
Zach Lowe
The Point Forward
SI.com

I feel for fans who spend way too much money to attend NBA games and don’t get the product they thought they were buying, but if you purchase tickets for a Spurs game in late March, you assume the risk of seeing four of San Antonio’s starters in street clothes.

Gregg Popovich has coached this way for years, and there is nothing wrong with it. The regular season is already devalued; if you’re hoping that every veteran-heavy team is going to go all-out for 82 games, you have ignored decades of history suggesting otherwise. Success in the playoffs is what matters, and Popovich rightly prioritizes that above all else. Do you think Avery Johnson cares more about the 67 wins his Mavericks piled up in 2006-07 or the four games in six they lost in the first round of that season’s playoffs against the Warriors?

In any case, Popovich was at it again Monday night, adding Tony Parker and Antonio McDyess as surprise scratches to an injured list that already included Tim Duncan (sprained ankle) and Manu Ginobili (quad contusion). The Spurs lost at home to Portland, and their lead over the Lakers is down to three games in the loss column, prompting some folks (http://twitter.com/#!/JonesOnTheNBA/status/52515409798234112) to wonder if Popovich understands just how close the red-hot Lakers are getting to stealing the top seed San Antonio has owned all season.

I’d wager Popovich knows exactly how close the Lakers are, which is why he is so comfortable playing the odds this way. Going into Monday night’s action, the Spurs had nine games remaining, five of which will come against teams either certain to miss the playoffs or extremely unlikely to qualify. If the Spurs had finished just 5-4 in those nine games, the Lakers would have had to win out — going 9-0 against a tougher schedule — just to tie San Antonio. Even today, fresh off another loss, if the Spurs merely play .500 ball over their last eight games, the Lakers will have to go 8-1 to pull even. And those eight wins will have to include a head-to-head victory over the Spurs on April 12, since San Antonio has taken two of the three meetings so far.

Keep reading... (http://nba-point-forward.si.com/2011/03/29/popovich-plays-the-odds-as-spurs-slip/)

http://nba-point-forward.si.com/2011/03/29/popovich-plays-the-odds-as-spurs-slip/

[duncan228]

Looking at the various scenarios for the Lakers to secure home-court advantage against San Antonio and/or Dallas (http://lakersblog.latimes.com/lakersblog/2011/03/looking-at-the-various-scenarios-for-the-lakers-to-secure-home-court-advantage.html?cid=6a00d8341c506253ef014e871d56249 70d)
Mark Medina
LA Times

http://lakersblog.latimes.com/lakersblog/2011/03/looking-at-the-various-scenarios-for-the-lakers-to-secure-home-court-advantage.html?cid=6a00d8341c506253ef014e871d56249 70d

[DeadlyDynasty]

What a difference a week makes...

[honestfool84]

What a difference a week makes...

gosh dangit, i know. -_-

[Budkin]

What a difference a week makes...

Seriously.

[duncan228]

Just the Spurs mentions, hit the link for the whole piece.


5-on-5: Who has the most to prove? (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?page=5-on-5-110331)
ESPN

The playoffs are just around the corner, but there's still plenty up for grabs. A few of our best NBA minds take a look at which teams have the most to lose or gain during the final two weeks of the regular season.

2. Final two weeks: Which team has the most to lose?

J.A. Adande, ESPN.com: The Spurs.

They seemed to place a greater emphasis than usual on the regular season this year. If the No. 1 seed slips away from them at the end it would have to be disheartening. But do they want to wear out their stars in the pursuit, or keep them fresh for the playoffs?

Rashad Mobley, Truth About It: The Spurs.

The Lakers are healthy and winners of seven consecutive games, while the Spurs are banged-up and losers of four straight. San Antonio has eight games to maintain its three-and-a-half-game lead -- and home court in the playoffs -- over the Lakers.

3. Final two weeks: Which team has the most to prove?

Timothy Varner, 48 Minutes of Hell: The Spurs.

They are on a four-game losing streak with a string of injuries at the worst possible point in the season. Meanwhile, their conference foes in Dallas, Los Angeles, Oklahoma City and Denver are finishing the season strong. Is San Antonio's record a mirage, or is this team really as good as its winning percentage suggests?

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?page=5-on-5-110331

[41times]

Can't wait for the Mavs and Spurs to play in the 2nd round again!!!!

[The_Worlds_finest]

the only people that think the lakers will catch the spurs; cunts and laker fans.