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Tommy Duncan
09-24-2004, 12:08 PM
www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLIT...index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/09/23/electoral.map/index.html)

CNN survey: Bush widens lead in Electoral College
Kerry holds tenuous leads in six key states

From John Mercurio and Molly Levinson
CNN Political Unit
Thursday, September 23, 2004 Posted: 8:36 PM EDT (0036 GMT)

http://i.cnn.net/cnn/ELECTION/2004/special/president/electoral.map/popup.electoral.map.9.23.04.gif

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- President Bush this week reached a symbolic milestone, overtaking Democratic challenger John Kerry in New Hampshire and Iowa to claim more than 300 electoral votes in CNN's weekly Electoral College scorecard.

If the election were held today, Bush would receive 301 electoral votes to Kerry's 237, according to a CNN survey based on state polling as well as interviews with campaign aides and independent analysts. A candidate wins the election with 270 electoral votes, regardless of the popular vote.

In three of the four weeks since he accepted the GOP nomination at Madison Square Garden on September 2, Bush has overtaken Kerry in one state Al Gore carried four years ago, a trend that forces Kerry's campaign into an increasingly defensive posture. Gore won Iowa by 1 percentage point in 2000 and lost New Hampshire by about the same margin.

Bush currently leads in 33 states, including the country's entire southern rim (except California) and the mountain and plains regions. Kerry leads in the District of Columbia and the remaining 17 states, including all of the West Coast and most of the Northeast. The two candidates continue to battle for control of the industrial Midwest.

Each week, CNN's political unit prepares a comprehensive analysis of the most recent CNN/USA Today/Gallup polling and public polling, combined with a look at turnout trends, interviews with strategists from both campaigns and parties, independent pollsters, and the latest campaign/party spending on advertising in the states.

Based on this careful and extensive analysis of all information, CNN allocates states to each candidate to determine the breakdown of the electoral college vote if the election were held today. The map is not a prediction of the Election Day outcome.

This week's map reflects the increasingly positive landscape Bush faces and, simultaneously, several trouble spots for Kerry.

Kerry holds tenuous leads in six key states that Al Gore carried: Maine, Pennsylvania, Oregon, New Jersey, Michigan and Minnesota. Those states give Kerry a combined electoral tally of 73 electoral votes (Bush currently has one electoral vote in his column from Maine, which can split its votes between two candidates). Bush, meanwhile, is narrowly ahead in just two states -- Colorado and New Mexico, which have 14 electoral votes between them.

As polls continue to suggest a tightening race in Colorado, there are signs that Bush and Kerry could be forced to share the state's electoral votes this fall. Two new surveys suggest that state voters strongly support a ballot amendment that would distribute Colorado's electoral votes on the basis of its popular vote.

The amendment, if it passes, would take place retroactively, so it would have an impact on this election. The latest poll in Colorado, conducted last week by the Rocky Mountain News and KCNC-TV, showed Bush leading Kerry, 45 to 44 percent. The situation could be further complicated by the prospect of post-election challenges, should a close vote take place.

Two other CNN/USA Today/Gallup polls out this week show Bush solidifying his leads in Nevada and West Virginia, which have a combined 10 electoral votes.

For the first time nearly a month, pollsters have returned to Florida, where three hurricanes put a temporary moratorium on politicking.

Two new surveys this week show Bush holding a narrow edge over Kerry in the Sunshine State, including a new CNN/USA Today/Gallup poll that shows Bush with a three-point edge among likely voters.

Bush's lead in that survey was likely diminished by respondents' view of the economy. Only 41 percent of respondents said they thought the economy was "good or excellent," compared with 51 percent who felt that way in July.

A separate Florida poll conducted September 18 to 21 by Quinnipiac University showed Bush ahead of Kerry, 49 to 41 percent, among registered voters.

But the most movement has taken place this week in New Hampshire and Iowa, two states where voters got to know Kerry early during the race for the Democratic nomination.

Several new polls show Bush posting sizable gains in both states -- especially Iowa, where the president led Kerry by 6 points in a new CNN/USA Today/Gallup poll. A survey conducted in late August showed Kerry with a 6-point lead in the Hawkeye State.

Bush-Cheney strategists say Kerry suffers in part from a cultural disconnect in Midwestern "Gore states" like Iowa and Wisconsin, which also has trended away from the Democrat this month.

That theory drove Republicans to air a new TV ad this week featuring footage of Kerry windsurfing. The ad, which is running in 17 battleground states and on national cable, is designed to make the senator look indecisive and elitist.

"Kerry doesn't share their values and it manifests itself in their vote. They look at this guy who's windsurfing on the Nantucket Sound, and a lot of Iowans are like, 'what?' They don't windsurf in Iowa," one Bush-Cheney strategist said. "They gave Kerry a chance at his convention and they decided, you know, I don't think this is the guy."

Kerry, who is suffering from a cold this week, didn't help his Iowa prospects by canceling a trip to Davenport Thursday. He last visited the state on September 9. Signaling the importance of the state, however, running mate John Edwards reworked his schedule to appear in Kerry's place.

Republicans said voters in New Hampshire -- where Bush, Elizabeth Edwards and DNC Chairman Terry McAuliffe campaigned earlier this week -- have simply "come home" to the president following a surge in support for Kerry after his convention in nearby Boston.

The Cheney-Bush strategist said, "Those folks are coming back pretty hard. Any sort of slippage we suffered after the [Democratic] convention was among moderate Independents and moderate Republicans, and those folks have come home. Like Iowa, it will remain competitive, but it's a state we feel good about."

Kerry hasn't campaigned in New Hampshire since August 19.

Kerry campaign aides say they're encouraged by national polling that shows the race continues to tighten.

"Every recent national poll ... is showing that the race is moving back to even nationally, and we are seeing movement in some states towards us," said Kerry's pollster, Mark Mellman.

Other Democrats were less sanguine. One top Democrat said Bush could win the race by focusing not only high-profile states like Florida and Ohio, but on "Mississippi River states."

"A lot of military battle plans going back to the Civil War say 'whoever controls the Mississippi controls America.' And Bush is marching straight up the Mississippi," the Democratic strategist said. "We've just retreated from Louisiana, Arkansas and Missouri. They already control Mississippi, Tennessee and Kentucky. Bush is now moving in on Iowa and Wisconsin. And except for Illinois, which isn't in play, there's only one state left: Minnesota, the mouth of the river. And it's dead even there."

bigzak25
09-24-2004, 01:14 PM
:smokin2 can you hear me now?

Nbadan
09-24-2004, 01:41 PM
Sept. 24 (Bloomberg) -- President George W. Bush's lead over Democratic challenger John Kerry shrank to 4 percentage points or less in five national polls released this week. Two state-by- state polls gave Kerry an edge in the electoral votes needed to win the election.

Bush led Kerry 48 percent to 45 percent in an NBC/Wall Street Journal survey and 46 percent to 42 percent in a Fox News poll. Polls conducted in individual states by American Research Group and Zogby International showed Kerry leading in the contest for states with the most electoral votes, apportioned based on Congressional representation, that the U.S. uses to pick the president.

Bloomberg (http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000087&sid=aH_1dXZAf5M4&refer=home)

Tommy Duncan
09-24-2004, 01:46 PM
Wishful thinking. Zogby's state poll methodology is questionable and his polling was off in 2002.

Poll after poll shows Bush strong in Wisconsin and Iowa. No way is Bush running that strong in those states and behind electorally.

Nbadan
09-24-2004, 01:51 PM
It's the question my family and friends ask me almost every day: Who is winning this election? Most of the latest polls are all over the map. CNN/Gallup shows Bush over Kerry by 13. Pew finds Bush up by 1. Harris finds Kerry up by 1. Well, here's a little Hardball secret: The one pollster my colleagues and I watch very closely is a guy by the name of John Zogby.

Why the Zogby poll? First, a little history: On November 6, 2000... the final CNN/Gallup tracking poll showed Bush over Gore 47-45. Wall St. Journal: Bush over Gore 47-44. ABC/Washington Post: Bush over Gore 48-45. Tarrance: Bush over Gore 46-41. Christian Science Monitor: Bush over Gore 48-46. Only CBS (Gore over Bush by 1) and Zogby (Gore 47-Bush 46) got it correct. (Gore received 500,000 more votes than Bush... though Bush, with Florida, won the "electoral college" and the White House.)

What happened? Most of the pollsters in 2000 used an inaccurate model of minority turnout. Basically, their sampling model for minorities was too small and the polls thereby underestimated Gore's support. Gallup's model, for example, was based on the premise that election turnout would be 87.5% white and 12.5% "non white." However, according to exit polls, 19% of the voters were "non-white" and 81% were "white," a ratio that only Zogby nailed.

One other important point: Remember the lesson from Florida. In each state, it's a winner take all as far as the electoral college is concerned, even if the candidates are separated in that state's popular vote by a Florida like .001%. So, while some of the national polls right now may be interesting... they don't tell us what we need to know. And what we need to know is, what are the poll numbers in each of the top battleground states (Florida, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan, Wisconsin, Missouri, Minnesota, West Virginia, New Hampshire, New Mexico, Tennessee.)

As of this very moment, John Zogby is finishing his battleground state polls. (He is doing them every two weeks.) The Zogby "state by state" numbers will be out late Monday night or Tuesday. Tune in to Hardball next week and we will have his results (and our best guidance) as to "who is winning this election."

9/23/2004)
By David Shuster, MSNBC, Newsweek
Zogby (http://zogby.com/Soundbites/ReadClips.dbm?ID=9499)

Tommy Duncan
09-24-2004, 01:58 PM
So Zogby showed a Gore lead within the sample error? Wow.

Anyways, the preponderance of the polling (http://www.realclearpolitics.com/) shows that Kerry is behind in this race. No reasonable individual on either side is claiming otherwise. Zogby's polling is certainly unreliable on a state level:


Zogby does have has his detractors among the polling fraternity. "The pollsters have a view of Zogby that doesn't seem to be shared by the news organizations," observes Warren Mitofsky, who sits on the polling review board of the NCPP. Zogby's performance deteriorated somewhat in the 2002 elections (which he says prompted an internal audit). According to an NCPP postmortem, Zogby got five races wrong out of 17 polled on a nonpartisan basis. His final Colorado Senate poll, for instance, put Democratic challenger Tom Strickland ahead of Republican incumbent Wayne Allard by a margin of 49 percent to 44 percent. (Allard actually won with 51 percent to Strickland's 45 percent.) Following the election, Zogby put out a mea culpa comparing his firm to the New York Yankees, which despite failing to win the 2002 World Series was still "the best team in baseball."

http://www.cesame-nm.org/Standards/Zogby.pdf

Joe Chalupa
09-24-2004, 02:01 PM
Go on gloat because I'd be doing the same.

Looks like a very tough road ahead.

Nbadan
09-24-2004, 02:03 PM
Friday September 24, 2004--It's been more than a month since John Kerry held a lead in the Rasmussen Reports Presidential Tracking Poll, but the challenger has moved within a point of the President.

The latest numbers show President George W. Bush with 47% of the vote and Senator John Kerry with 46%. The Tracking Poll is updated daily by noon Eastern.

For the previous eight days, and most of September, Bush has held a 2-4 point lead in the Tracking Poll. It will take a couple of days to determine if today's results reflect a tightening of the race or are merely statistical noise.

Rasmussen (http://www.rasmussenreports.com/Presidential_Tracking_Poll.htm)

Nbadan
09-24-2004, 02:37 PM
Harris poll tops


If you are getting upset about polls, please look at the only poll you will need to see if you want accuracy and that is the Harris poll along with the short history of Zogby. Harris latest poll has Kerry leading 48-47. The results from the last three elections are remarkable when you compare them to the actual final results. So forget Gallup, forget Ipsod/Reid, forget CBS, forget NBC, forget ABC, Forget ARG, forget Survey USA, Harris is the poll of accuracy.

2000
Election Result 48% 48% 3%
Harris Interactive 47% 47% 4%
Zogby 48% 46% 5%

1996
Election Result 49% 41% 8%
Harris 51% 39% 9%
Zogby/Reuters 49% 41% 8% (dead on)

1992
Election Result 43% 37% 19%
Harris 44% 38% 17%
No Zogby

NCPP.org (http://www.ncpp.org/1936-2000.htm)

LandSharkII
09-24-2004, 02:41 PM
That Harris Poll you cite is outdated. It was taken from September 9 - September 13.

Nbadan
09-24-2004, 02:49 PM
Look at the history of the Harris and short-lived Zogby poll. I know the race is very close when you poll 'likely voters', but I think when you add in the youth movement, thanks in large part to Jon Stewart and Howard Stern, its gonna be Kerry in a landslide.

LandSharkII
09-24-2004, 02:54 PM
When a campaign has to rely upon the emergence of such "new" or "undetected" voters, you know there is trouble. I'll concede that there is a very remote chance that Kerry could turn things around and win narrowly, but a Kerry landslide is out of the question.

Months ago I predicted a Bush victory by 4% to 5% and I'm sticking to it. We'll see what happens.

Nbadan
09-24-2004, 02:58 PM
I don't think the Kerry camp is relying on anything. The latest Harris and Zogby polls have the race at near a dead heat, but we still have over a month left in the campaign. As we have already seen a lot can happen in the about 39ish days left.

Tommy Duncan
09-24-2004, 03:00 PM
You're delusional. Zogby's track record at the state level is far less than stellar and his national claim to fame is based on one poll showing a Gore lead within the sample error.

Looking at it state by state it is clear that Bush is ahead in this race. There's no way that Bush has a solid lead in Wisconsin and Iowa and this race is tied nationally.

The myth of Zogby is built on nothing.

Look at how the Kerry campaign has acted this week. Is that really how a campaign in a dead heat would behave? Kerry continues to run left and spew out various conspiracy theories (draft, UBL capture, etc...).

Nbadan
09-24-2004, 03:04 PM
Look at how the Kerry campaign has acted this week. Is that really how a campaign in a dead heat would behave? Kerry continues to run left and spew out various conspiracy theories (draft, UBL capture, etc...).

And W. bringing a known murder to the U.S. isn't a desperate political stunt?

I think all this talk about a desperate Kerry camp, as delusional as it may be, only energizes the Democratic base to work harder.

Yonivore
09-24-2004, 03:05 PM
And, if the toe-sucker, Dick Morris, is correct, Kerry has now shot himself in the balls...it's all over but the concession.

Nbadan
09-24-2004, 03:07 PM
And, if the toe-sucker, Dick Morris, is correct, Kerry has now shot himself in the balls...it's all over but the concession.

Dick Morris?!? :lol

Why don't you just quote Newt Gingrich or Olly North?

SpursWoman
09-24-2004, 03:08 PM
About 89% of me wish this whole election thing would just get the hell over with....

Tommy Duncan
09-24-2004, 03:09 PM
And W. bringing a known murder to the U.S. isn't a desperate political stunt?

OK you're nuts.



I think all this talk about a desperate Kerry camp, as delusional as it may be, only energizes the Democratic base to work harder.

That's great. The problem is that for Kerry it will only be the liberal Democrat base voting for him if he continues on this track.

Yonivore
09-24-2004, 03:09 PM
Because neither of them have been responsible for the re-election of a President that should have been defeated and thrown in jail.

C'mon, you gotta give Dick Morris that, I begrudging did. He's single-handedly pulled Bill Clinton's bacon out of the fire and got him re-elected. Someone with that kind of political acumen can't be far from wrong.

Nbadan
09-24-2004, 03:11 PM
C'mon, you gotta give Dick Morris that, I begrudging did. He's single-handedly pulled Bill Clinton's bacon out of the fire and got him re-elected. Someone with that kind of political acumen can't be far from wrong.

Morris sold out. Now he's nothing but a Insannity talking head.

LandSharkII
09-24-2004, 03:11 PM
And W. bringing a known murder to the U.S. isn't a desperate political stunt?
What's this about Allawi being a muderer?

Joe Chalupa
09-24-2004, 03:14 PM
I'd vote Bill Clinton today if he were running.

Yup, that's right, and I'm stickin' to it.

Nbadan
09-24-2004, 03:15 PM
Paul McGeough, the award-winning Australian journalist who published eyewitness accounts that Iraqi interim Prime Minister Iyad Allawi carried out the extra-judicial execution of six prisoners, authored a further comment on the issue in the August 12 edition of the Sydney Morning Herald.

McGeough’s original article, containing the accounts of two anonymous sources describing Allawi’s murderous actions, was carried on July 17 by two of Australia’s leading daily newspapers, the Sydney Morning Herald and the Age. It included charges that American military personnel were present at the scene of the crime, which allegedly occurred in late June.

YOu can read more here (http://www.wsws.org/articles/2004/aug2004/alla-a19_prn.shtml)

Nbadan
09-24-2004, 03:17 PM
I'd vote Bill Clinton today if he were running.

I agree. If we are gonna change the law so that foreign borns can run for Arnold why not change the constitution so that a person can serve more than two terms for Clinton.

Arnold versus Clinton. Classic.

Yonivore
09-24-2004, 03:19 PM
"Morris sold out. Now he's nothing but a Insannity talking head."
Whatever gets you through the day, Nbadanallah.

Tommy Duncan
09-24-2004, 03:19 PM
Allawi's visit to the US was nothing but a positive for Bush. Kerry's stunt was quite crass and totally unpresidential. All the more indication that Kerry is pandering to his base in order to forestall a total electoral collapse on his part.

Joe Chalupa
09-24-2004, 03:23 PM
Allawi had to say what he did or else he would be "against them". Can't upset Poppa Smirk.

LandSharkII
09-24-2004, 03:28 PM
Allawi > Saddam

Joe Chalupa
09-24-2004, 03:31 PM
caca > Saddam

Yonivore
09-24-2004, 05:07 PM
"caca > Saddam"
Your point? Because Kerry now says we shoulda left Saddam in power.

Joe Chalupa
09-24-2004, 06:24 PM
My point that "caca>Saddam" has nothing to do with Kerry or the campaign.

SpursWoman
09-25-2004, 01:12 AM
http://www.allahpundit.com/Titanic.jpg

Yonivore
09-25-2004, 08:57 AM
:rollin

Hook Dem
09-25-2004, 11:36 AM
"Morris sold out. Now he's nothing but a Insannity talking head." .................There's a lot of difference between "sold out" and "seeing the light".:lol

Yonivore
09-25-2004, 11:44 AM
I honestly don't believe Dick Morris is partisan. He's a political prostitute with a good head for discerning the political landscape...that's why Clinton put the toe-sucker on his payroll.