Hakeem Olajuwon or David Robinson???

[Ari Gold]

Who would u rahter hav on ur team in their prime???

[Jodelo]

Enough with the polls!

[lefty]

Hakeem

[Kobe_5_Duncan_4]

WTF kind of question is this?

What's next Michael Jordan or Manu Ginobili?

Tony Parker or Magic Johnson?

[lefty]

WTF kind of question is this?

What's next Michael Jordan or Manu Ginobili?

Tony Parker or Magic Johnson?

This

[BlackSwordsMan]

WTF kind of question is this?

What's next Michael Jordan or Manu Ginobili?

Tony Parker or Magic Johnson?

Agreed knows david is the answer. He's trying to troll us rocket fans.

[Killakobe81]

Unless you love advanced stats over all else (David was a perennial leader in the precursor stat to PER) ...no way you dont pick Hakeem.

[jjktkk]

Hakeem, but I will always be extremely grateful to have been a Spurs fan during the Admiral's Spurs's career.

[easy7]

My poll is rising...

[DMC]

Who would u rahter hav on ur team in their prime???

Someone with a spell checker?

[TE]

Hakeem.

[dbreiden83080]

Hakeem and it's not that close..

[LkrFan]

:corn:

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

David if it's a running team, Hakeem for a half-court team.

I feel treasonous saying that because David will always be my favourite player of all time, but it's the truth.

[Amaso]

lol, hakeem is on a completely different level than david robinson. hakeem would be insulted

[Kai]

hW4uXlRGAF0

[ezau]

fuck Hakeem and his two-year prime. After that fluky two years when he won the championship, he's been on a complete downside.

Robinson was winning trophies in 03 while Hakeem was playing for money in Toronto. Oh wait, he's already retired by 2003. LOL

[G-Dawgg]

fuck Hakeem and his two-year prime. After that fluky two years when he won the championship, he's been on a complete downside.

Robinson was winning trophies in 03 while Hakeem was playing for money in Toronto. Oh wait, he's already retired by 2003. LOL
True Story.

[Giuseppe]

Robinson was a panty-waist. Duncan saved him.

There's nothing wrong with that. Bryant saved Gasol in similar vein.

And everybody wants to forget Robinson chasing Rodman around with a Bible and Holy Water, but, not as long as I'm drawing breath on earth will that be forgotten.

[dunkman]

Robinson was a panty-waist. Duncan saved him.

There's nothing wrong with that. Bryant saved Gasol in similar vein.

And everybody wants to forget Robinson chasing Rodman around with a Bible and Holy Water, but, not as long as I'm drawing breath on earth will that be forgotten.

While Duncan was an extremely dominant player in the first part of his career, in the 99 WCF Spurs vs Portland, Duncan had some trouble with 'Sheed and Robinson stepped up.

Neither Kobe, after Shaq, nor Gasol have passed first round before joining forces. Robinson has made it to the WCF, earned an MVP, DPOY without Duncan.

Kobe benefited with one of the best ever coaches, when he had less than that, he missed the playoffs. It would be more accurate to say that Kobe and Gasol contribute around the same plus Odom and Bynum are more key pieces for the Lakers.

[Riddler]

While Duncan was an extremely dominant player in the first part of his career, in the 99 WCF Spurs vs Portland, Duncan had some trouble with 'Sheed and Robinson stepped up.

Neither Kobe, after Shaq, nor Gasol have passed first round before joining forces. Robinson has made it to the WCF, earned an MVP, DPOY without Duncan.

Kobe benefited with one of the best ever coaches, when he had less than that, he missed the playoffs. It would be more accurate to say that Kobe and Gasol contribute around the same plus Odom and Bynum are more key pieces for the Lakers.

Actually, he stole Hakeem's MVP

[dunkman]

Actually, he stole Hakeem's MVP

Prime Hakeem is at the same level as prime Bird, Magic, MJ, Shaq or Duncan, and is generally considered a better player than Robinson.

However, he came 5-th in MVP voting the 94-95 season. Robinson was close second the year Hakeem got his MVP. He was also second the following 95-96 season, so he definitely earned his MVP.

[TDMVPDPOY]

prime hakeem is overrated, his 2 year span makes him look like a fkn god and places him in the top10 list...

[Riddler]

prime hakeem is overrated, his 2 year span makes him look like a fkn god and places him in the top10 list...

Then that makes Duncan just an above average player by your logic

[IronMexican]

Robinson was probably a top 5 Robin of all-time. Hakeem won as the man, though. Fagots

[ambchang]

Hakeem's team dominated when he had great three point shooters around him.

Robinson's best PG couldn't even make it as a third string PG with the Rockets.

True story.

[Muser]

I love DRob, but you gotta be a faggot to vote for him against Hakeem

[Mugen]

Hakeem, easily. Though it didn't hurt that he had a much clutcher supporting cast than the Admiral did.

[Greg Oden]

lol a guy "with only a 2 year prime" averaging 22 and 11 for his career.

[Kyle Orton]

lol David "I swear :cry me running up my stats against the Clippers to steal the scoring title has nothing to do a grudge Shaq says I have against him :cry:cry:cry" Robinson

[Greg Oden]

that was a pretty classy stat padding, tbh.

[Kyle Orton]

It's also beyond a stretch to say David Robinson's 1995 supporting cast was bad.

[jjktkk]

It's also beyond a stretch to say David Robinson's 1995 supporting cast was bad.

Back then DROB was very similar to Dirk right now, as far as their respective teams supporting casts. Good teams, but not great.

[ambchang]

in the 93-94 championship season cassell, maxwell, horry, and elie shot 29, 29, 32, and 33% from 3, and that's with wide open attempts off hakeem double teams. who are these GREAT 3 point shooters you speak of :lmao

lol jackass with a gorilla avatar, you should change it to a donkey

Oops.

http://www.nba.com/history/finals/19941995.html



Yes, I agree, but I think it was because of this team, the style of play. We're playing team basketball, aggressive defense, hitting more outside shots which opened the floor and gave me more room to operate inside. And also, we played with more experience after what we had done last year.

Oops 2.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=990CE7DF1530F930A25755C0A9639582 60



It's a daily thing that we live by, there is not a guy on this team that won't get into a situation where they are shooting some 3-pointers in practice. That is just the way we live. That's a part of the Rockets' system.



lol moron with a fake player name leaving out players like Kenny Smith and Scott Brooks who shot 40% and 37.7% from three, or even Matt Bullard, a backup power forward who shot 32.5% from 3, making 50 3pters in 65 games.

lol moron with no knowledge of basketball not realizing that Rockets were #1 in 3PMs, by far, that season.

[Nick Manning]

Hakeem's team dominated when he had great three point shooters around him.

Robinson's best PG couldn't even make it as a third string PG with the Rockets.

True story.

jesus tapdancing christ you're fucking stupid.

but congrats on your first post without mentioning Kobe...I see the healing has begun

[Nick Manning]

lol 6th seed crushing a one seed. No one-on-one matchup in a playoff series has ever been so dominant.

lol ambchang

lol butthurt homer

lol ROBINson

[Riddler]

lol thinking hakeems supporting cast was that much better than robinson's in 1995
Plus the spurs were the #1 seed in 95, winning 62 games

[Nick Manning]

"but but but it was Bob Hill's fault that Robinson was helpless against Hakeem." :cry :cry :cry

[ambchang]

tbh in 1995, chuck person, vinny del negro, and sean Luck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_Lu ck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_ who shot 39, 41, and 41% were all much better 3 point shooters than anything hakeem ever had as well.

Of course, in 95, Kenny Smith, Tracy Murray, Chilcutt, Mario Elie, Robert Horry and Clyde Drexler shot, 43, 42, 40, 40, 38 and 36% from 3 pt land.

To top it off, the Rockets made 646 3-pters. the Spurs made 434 3 pters, a total exceeded by the Rockets top 4 3-pt shooters (by volume).

[ambchang]

in 1994 maxwell, cassell, horry, elie all shot less than good percentages from 3..i listed the percentages earlier (lol leading 3 point attempter by far only shooting 29%) the only one who hit at a high rate that year was kenny smith. scott fucking brookes made a whopping 23 3's that whole year, don't give me that shit. how do you explain the 1993-1994 championship?

ps- those guys get open 3's because of hakeem, not the other way around

The year the Rockets made the most 3 pters out of all the teams in the league? The year Hakeem had Otis Thorpe doing the dirty work for him? The year where Kenny Smith, Robert Horry and Sam Cassell shot 44, 38 and 38 % in the playoffs? That year?

[Nick Manning]

Rockets (47-35) crush Spurs (62-20)

Spurs lose all 3 of their home games in the series.

crofl.

great fucking leader :cry

[ambchang]

Rockets (47-35) crush Spurs (62-20)

Spurs lose all 3 of their home games in the series.

crofl.

great fucking leader :cry

Rockets lose 2 of their 3 home games in the series.

The year where Rockets players Hakeem and Horry missed significant parts of the season, had to deal with all the turmoil with Maxwell acting up, and Drexler joining mid-season, thus having a misrepresentative record.

The year where the Rockets simply collapsed on Robinson and dare the outside shooters to beat them.

Yeah, memorable year.

[ambchang]

the 1994 rockets only hit 429 3's for the year on 33%...the 95 spurs hit 434 on .375

lol thinking those awesome 3 point shooters are the reason for at least the first of hakeems back to back!

The 94 Rockets played against the 95 Spurs? How, they travelled through time?

[Muser]

Hakeem is arguably the best C of all time, probably behind Kareem.

[ambchang]

jesus tapdancing christ you're fucking stupid.

but congrats on your first post without mentioning Kobe...I see the healing has begun

If you are so smart, tell me where I was wrong.

And congrants on your millionth post mentioning me always mentions Kobe...I see that you have not started your healing.

[ambchang]

you said hakeems success was due to having great 3 point shooters...show me how the 94 rockets (the first team hakeem lead to a ring) who shot only 33% from 3, hitting 429 for the year were a GREAT 3 point shooting team..

i'll tell you who WAS great that year, hakeem olajuwon who put together one of the finest performances in nba history

You mean the team that finished #1 in 3PM that year? That one?

Of course Hakeem was great that year, you heard me argue otherwise? How else could he have won the MVP?

[stretch]

Hakeem

no doubt about it

[ambchang]

tbh don't you find it funny that smith, horry and cassel went from shooting 40, 32, and 29% from 3 in the regular season 45, 38, and 38? hmm lets see who beasted in those playoffs, making teams have to double team at all costs and getting those guys a shit ton of open looks?

lol grey named spur fan

don't you find it funny that smith, horry and cassell couldn't shoot those numbers in the regular season playing with the same Hakeem Olajuwon?

I admire your intelligence in how you can attribute the performance improvement of three players solely on Hakeem despite those same three players playing with Hakeem throughout the whole year.

[Kyle Orton]

So gorilla dude, what exactly are you trying to say? Do you actually believe Robinson > Olajuwon :lmao

[Kyle Orton]

I'm surprised no one has used the "But Rodman wouldn't read the bible like Robinson told him to :cry" argument yet

[Nick Manning]

If you are so smart, tell me where I was wrong.


I'm fucking brilliant, tbh.


You were wrong in the first post of this thread where you took a subtle jab at Hakeem by pumping up his supporting cast and denegrating Robinson's...thus implying that you would choose Robinson.

Your predicted comeback will be: "so, where does that say I would pick Robinson over Hakeem?"

Let me save you the time and expose your bullshit:

You are a Spurs-homer to the umpteenth degree. That is your reputation on this site: that of a blind Spurs homer who tries to 'Hollinger' his way out of arguments. All one has to do is scroll through your post history to see the bullshit you sell.

Your reputation alone makes you guilty, and voids any opinions you have.

I'm sorry, but you made that bed, now lie in it.

[Kyle Orton]

tbh the spurs have hit 622 3's so far this year on a whopping 40%...if jim dunan doesn't win the championship this year, then it's official hakeem >>>>>>> duncan :lmao

lol putting up 12 and 8 with all those great 3 point shooters boosting his stats :lmao

:lmao, sans usage of lakaluva's retarded jim duncan shtick

[Kyle Orton]

hey dok you're a suns fan, tell me tbh does shooting a lot of 3's help teams win championships??? :lmao

Completely. Look how good they still are as a 3 point shooting team with no inside presence this year, and look how bad Amare is without their 3 point shooting :lmao

[Kyle Orton]

Holy fuck, I just saw on his profile that ambchang is from Toronto. You can add him to the list of "Retarded Canadian Spurs fans who don't know dick about baskeball" :lmao

[Nick Manning]

Holy fuck, I just saw on his profile that ambchang is from Toronto. You can add him to the list of "Retarded Canadian Spurs fans who don't know dick about baskeball" :lmao

and he's fucking ancient....born in 1945.

Dementia has probably kicked in already :depressed

[djohn2oo8]

prime hakeem is overrated, his 2 year span makes him look like a fkn god and places him in the top10 list...

lol 2 year span, goddamn idiot, worse than rocket fans

[ambchang]

tbh 18 teams in the nba this year have hit more 3's than the 1994 houston rockets, and the season isn't even over

TBH, the league has changed the last 15 years.

[ambchang]

Holy fuck, I just saw on his profile that ambchang is from Toronto. You can add him to the list of "Retarded Canadian Spurs fans who don't know dick about baskeball" :lmao

Mass generalisations is always acccurate.

:tu

[ambchang]

and he's fucking ancient....born in 1945.

Dementia has probably kicked in already :depressed

Your profile also list you as a dominant center. You must be the reincarnation of Hakeem.

[ambchang]

how retarded do you have to be to make this statement:

the 1994 rockets (who hit 429 3's on 33%) were a great 3 point shooting team and were responsible for hakeem's success while the 1995 spurs (who hit 434 3's on 37.5%) were such a HORRIBLE supporting cast :lmao

You must remember the NBA shortened the three point line in 94-95, 95-96, and the 96-97 seasons, right?

[ambchang]

So gorilla dude, what exactly are you trying to say? Do you actually believe Robinson > Olajuwon :lmao

No.

Glad that there is actually someone smart enough to ask instead of jumping to conclusions.

[ambchang]

I'm fucking brilliant, tbh.


You were wrong in the first post of this thread where you took a subtle jab at Hakeem by pumping up his supporting cast and denegrating Robinson's...thus implying that you would choose Robinson.

How is a subtle jab wrong? Didn’t the 94 and 95 Rockets lead the league in 3PM made? Didn’t both teams have above average three point shooters in every single position outside of centre?


Your predicted comeback will be: "so, where does that say I would pick Robinson over Hakeem?"

And in fact, I never did.


Let me save you the time and expose your bullshit:

You are a Spurs-homer to the umpteenth degree. That is your reputation on this site: that of a blind Spurs homer who tries to 'Hollinger' his way out of arguments. All one has to do is scroll through your post history to see the bullshit you sell.

Your reputation alone makes you guilty, and voids any opinions you have.

I'm sorry, but you made that bed, now lie in it.

So in conclusion, you couldn’t find what is wrong with my first post, because Hakeem DID have a great three point shooting team around him in 94 and 95, and because the best PG Robinson ever played with DID get cut as the Rockets 3rd string point guard.

I guess you need more brilliance.

[ambchang]

Completely. Look how good they still are as a 3 point shooting team with no inside presence this year, and look how bad Amare is without their 3 point shooting :lmao


hey dok you're a suns fan, tell me tbh does shooting a lot of 3's help teams win championships??? :lmao



Saying Hakeem had great three point shooting teams in 94 and 95 = great three point shooting teams always wins championships.

Fantastic logic.

[ambchang]

tbh the spurs have hit 622 3's so far this year on a whopping 40%...if jim dunan doesn't win the championship this year, then it's official hakeem >>>>>>> duncan :lmao

lol putting up 12 and 8 with all those great 3 point shooters boosting his stats :lmao

LOL, not knowing a thing how 3 pt shooting was used as a weapon has changed in the league the last 30 years in the league.

[ambchang]

yeah tbh, 3 pointers were a much bigger weapon back in 1994 and 1995 than they are today! that's why it's okay if jim doesn't win a ring with one of the best 3 point shooting teams of all time :lmao nice little safety net and logic you got there

Umm ... given your lack of logic so far, I guess I will have to explain it for you.

3 point shooting has been used much MORE in the last 15 or so years. In fact, three point shooting went up dramatically after Hakeem’s Rockets demonstrated that surrounding a dominant big man with sharp three point shooters is a sound strategy to win a championship.

Granted, that model requires one of the best big man in the history of the league to work, as in mid-90s Hakeem, early 00’s Duncan, and early 00’s Shaq.

Duncan, at 34 years old now, and is clearly past his prime. It’s like ragging on Hakeem for his days in Toronto. And even a retard would know that’s pure stupidity.

BTW, have you heard the league shortened the three point line in 95, and comparing team shooting statistics between 94 and 95 is beyond ignorant?

[mavsfan1000]

Olajuwon owns Robinson. Not even close.

[Andrew Cunanan]

hate to say it, but Dreamshake was most definitely better than the Admiral.

[djohn2oo8]

http://www.balloverall.com/sites/default/files/u-18/hakeem_spurs.jpg

[TDMVPDPOY]

2 series making it up like he owns drob for most of his career...

[baseline bum]

http://www.balloverall.com/sites/default/files/u-18/hakeem_spurs.jpg

And now you have the center chasin niggas around with bibles

[ambchang]

Dirk made Lebron looked like a college player in 2011. Doesn't make dirk>Lebron.

[Thread]

And now you have the center chasin niggas around with bibles

& arguably cost you a ring. But, nary a word was spoken. Try that now with Christians on the run and Robinson would be hanging next to Sterling with that Bible shoved halfway up his ass.

[Thread]

Dirk made Lebron looked like a college player in 2011. Doesn't make dirk>Lebron.

But it does set James at 2. And 2 is puny.

& you're a smart fucker with a big fuckin' mouth. You tell ESPN how James is gonna get to 5. Go on, you always have a smart ass answer for everything. GO ON!!!

[djohn2oo8]

Dirk made Lebron looked like a college player in 2011. Doesn't make dirk>Lebron.

Retarded. Marion and Deshawn Stevenson shut down LeBron. Hakeem dominated David twice. It wasn't fair.

[ambchang]

But it does set James at 2. And 2 is puny.

& you're a smart fucker with a big fuckin' mouth. You tell ESPN how James is gonna get to 5. Go on, you always have a smart ass answer for everything. GO ON!!!

I always do, but I'm struggling because I don't see Lebron going 5 as the main guy.

[ambchang]

Retarded. Marion and Deshawn Stevenson shut down LeBron. Hakeem dominated David twice. It wasn't fair.

Marion & deshawn > Lebron. Thanks.

[baseline bum]

Retarded. Marion and Deshawn Stevenson shut down LeBron. Hakeem dominated David twice. It wasn't fair.

Do people in Houston still wear 95 championship gear?

[apalisoc_9]

Spurs fan thinking David Robinson is better than the Dream..:lmao

[TDMVPDPOY]

2 decades...havnt amounted to shit, still bringing up old shit to stay relavant, nobody gives a shit, just like nobody gives 2 shits about the bulls post jordan era

[djohn2oo8]

Do people in Houston still wear 95 championship gear?
Probably

[Killakobe81]

I always do, but I'm struggling because I don't see Lebron going 5 as the main guy.
In the modern era only MJ has 5 as the main guy not Magic, Kobe Kareem Shaq or even Tim have done it. Thought LeBron could but he already missed out on 3 Finals chances. He wins at least one more and is at 3 you would like his chances. But even in East how many Finals does he have as the alpha? Someone in the East will upset or replace the Heat at least one of the seasons.

[djohn2oo8]

2 decades...havnt amounted to shit, still bringing up old shit to stay relavant, nobody gives a shit, just like nobody gives 2 shits about the bulls post jordan era
The thread shouldn't exist but it does. Quit whining.

[Arcadian]

Do the Rockets championships have the biggest asterisk of all time?

*best player in the game was playing baseball

[djohn2oo8]

^ Original.

[baseline bum]

Still, I picked DRob since he's not the type to fund Islamic terrorists tbh

[ambchang]

Spurs fan thinking David Robinson is better than the Dream..:lmao

We do think cassell > AJ, and mad max/ Drexler > del negro though.

Kareem missed playoffs in his prime in an extremely weak era with crap for his backcourt. The admiral led teams to 50 win seasons in a stronger era with a crappier backcourt.

Hakeem cut Avery Johnson as their 3rd point guard, twice. Avery Johnson was the starting point guard for Robinson a entire prime.

[ambchang]

In the modern era only MJ has 5 as the main guy not Magic, Kobe Kareem Shaq or even Tim have done it. Thought LeBron could but he already missed out on 3 Finals chances. He wins at least one more and is at 3 you would like his chances. But even in East how many Finals does he have as the alpha? Someone in the East will upset or replace the Heat at least one of the seasons.

Duncan's not the main guy for 2007, 2014 or both?

Just asking. For me, he was still the main guy for 2007. 2014 was really pop, but Duncan enabled the 2014 squad by manning the D and being a great facilitator on O.

[ChumpDumper]

Right, have DRob and Hakeem trade places those two years and the Rockets still win it all.

Hakeem was definitely better those two seasons, but the way DRob carried those largely shitty Spurs teams for so many years was incredible.

[spurraider21]

Spurs fan thinking David Robinson is better than the Dream..:lmao
:lmao spurfan in his teens acting like he knows anything about that matchup

[Thread]

Probably

You did me proud, birthday boy. I remember walking around Fry's grocery store with Girl and they had the game piped in. You know me I was inconsolable: "It's over. It's not gonna work. They're gonna ring. What am I gonna do?"

- "It's over."

- A.C. Green - sittin' in Houston up 3-1 about to get on the charter to fly back here.

[djohn2oo8]

Right, have DRob and Hakeem trade places those two years and the Rockets still win it all.

Hakeem was definitely better those two seasons, but the way DRob carried those largely shitty Spurs teams for so many years was incredible.

No.

[ChumpDumper]

No.Yes. Hakeem wouldn't have led that Spurs team to a championship.

lol

[djohn2oo8]

Yes. Hakeem wouldn't have led that Spurs team to a championship.

lol
Hakeem led the 6th seed to a ring, surely he could with a 1 seed.

[ChumpDumper]

Hakeem led the 6th seed to a ring, surely he could with a 1 seed.With Bob Hill calling the shots?

lol

[djohn2oo8]

Rudy T wasn't an x's and o's guy either.

[ChumpDumper]

Rudy T wasn't an x's and o's guy either.Your claim is the coaching would be a wash?

lol

[djohn2oo8]

Your claim is the coaching would be a wash?

lol
My claim is David had the 1 seed. How?

[ChumpDumper]

My claim is David had the 1 seed. How?Singular talent.

How did Hakeem have the sixth seed?

[ChumpDumper]

If you need to throw Rudy under the bus to prop up Hakeem, that's your business. I know he's a better coach than Bob Hill.

[djohn2oo8]

Singular talent.

How did Hakeem have the sixth seed?
Is that why his numbers dropped in the playoffs? Hakeem's second best scorer was Thorpe at 13.3 until he was traded for Drexler at the ASB. Pretty interesting that same Spurs team had a better offensive and defensive team rating.

[djohn2oo8]

If you need to throw Rudy under the bus to prop up Hakeem, that's your business. I know he's a better coach than Bob Hill.
Rudy was an exceptional motivator, no doubt. He was not an x's and o's guy.

[ChumpDumper]

Is that why his numbers dropped in the playoffs?Rudy's coaching did that in the WCF. Good defensive strategy tbh.

But try shitting on him some more. Hill > Rudy makes you look knowledgeable.

[ChumpDumper]

Rudy was an exceptional motivator, no doubt. He was not an x's and o's guy.So you're saying Hill > Rudy T.

OK.

[baseline bum]

Rudy T was a shit coach who got carried by Olajuwon. Look at what happened when he coached lesser stars elsewhere.

[djohn2oo8]

Rudy's coaching did that in the WCF. Good defensive strategy tbh.

But try shitting on him some more. Hill > Rudy makes you look knowledgeable.

Yet Denver did an even better job.

[ChumpDumper]

Rudy T was a shit coach who got carried by Olajuwon. Look at what happened when he coached lesser stars elsewhere.Shit coach is relative.

I'm going out on a limb and saying Bob Hill's shit quotient was higher than Rudy's. Guy couldn't keep a job at Fordham.

[baseline bum]

Rudy T was Scotty Brooks with a real MVP

[ChumpDumper]

Still.

Bob Hill, man.

[baseline bum]

Bob Hill is garbage, but Tomjanovich was nothing special.

[HemisfairArena]

Hakeem was arguably the best pound for pound center to ever play the game. Can you imagine if that dude had the talent around him that Kareem had,,,,or Russell had,,,Robinson was a bad ass but Hakeem was on a whole different level. Taking Hakeem over Robinson is no disrespect to Robinson,,,alot of people would take Hakeem as the best center of all time.

[Clipper Nation]

Spurfan is STILL trying to :downspin: dis shit? :lol

I like DRob, but he was never better than Hakeem, end of story....

[ChumpDumper]

Bob Hill is garbage, but Tomjanovich was nothing special.Agreed.

But I mark that as the beginning of the quest by the Spurs to lose in the playoffs in every way imaginable.

[ChumpDumper]

Hakeem was arguably the best pound for pound center to ever play the game. Can you imagine if that dude had the talent around him that Kareem had,,,,or Russell had,,,Robinson was a bad ass but Hakeem was on a whole different level. Taking Hakeem over Robinson is no disrespect to Robinson,,,alot of people would take Hakeem as the best center of all time.Hakeem was definitely on another level those seasons. Fun to watch when they didn't play the Spurs.

[baseline bum]

The only bad things you could say about Olajuwon were that he was a real hothead early in his career (I remember Kupchack getting him ejected from Game 5 of the 86 WCF) and he had that Ewing disease of thinking the offense should still go through him at the end of his career (watching he and Barkley take turns backing the ball down for 15 seconds while Pippen stood at the 3 point line jerking himself off was ugly). But other than that he had everything. Creativity in the post, an unguardable baseline fadeway after spinning off his man, a monster face-up game, decent midrange jumper, he shot well at the line, an A+ post defender, great weakside shotblocker, one of the greatest transition defenders to ever live, and so on.

[Thread]

The only bad things you could say about Olajuwon were that he was a real hothead early in his career

And he bell curved it at the end. Christ, he slid over the edge like shit thru a Christmas goose.

[florige]

Hakeem's team dominated when he had great three point shooters around him.

Robinson's best PG couldn't even make it as a third string PG with the Rockets.

True story.


Not to mention during his second trip around he had Clyde freaking Drexler. I'm sure that made life easier for his to repeat. I give Hakeem a slight edge maybe just because of that dominating performance in 95. But to say he is leaps and bounds over D-Rob I personally think is a bit much. Especially when you compare the overall teams as a whole. That part of the deal wasn't at all close. The following year the Supersonics all but figured his game out and ran them out of the building in 96.

[baseline bum]

Not to mention during his second trip around he had Clyde freaking Drexler. I'm sure that made life easier for his to repeat. I give Hakeem a slight edge maybe just because of that dominating performance in 95. But to say he is leaps and bounds over D-Rob I personally think is a bit much. Especially when you compare the overall teams as a whole. That part of the deal wasn't at all close. The following year the Supersonics all but figured his game out and ran them out of the building in 96.

Robinson never had Olajuwon's post game while Olajuwon had a face-up game almost as good as Robinson's. I think Hakeem is clearly over David just from that.

[Biggems]

I take David Robinson. Call me a Spurs homer all you want.....I remember when IBM did their award for best player based ion overall statistics, David was ranked #1 or 2 in each of his first 7 years in the league. I want to say he was #1 six times. The other top player was Jordan.

Yes Hakeem had a better WCF. But the fact remains that one on one, Hakeem had no answer for David. David had no answer for Hakeem one on one. They essentially cancelled one another out. The reason Hakeem had a better WCF was because of Rudy T. He used double and triple teams to slow down David, while Hill left David alone on an island against Hakeem. Remember, Rodman was definitely not an offensive threat, so he could use that defender to help on David. However, Hakeem was surrounded by 3 or 4 three point shooters consistently, and those bastards just wouldn't miss.

[Thread]

Robinson was so uncomfortable on the floor, from the beginning all the way to the end. LeBron is like that. Not to the degree that Robinson was, but, similar.

[ambchang]

Hakeem led the 6th seed to a ring, surely he could with a 1 seed.

Pop quiz hot shot. Do you know why the rockets were 6th seed that year after winning the championship the yer prior?

Also, he underachieved in the regular season with a championship squad.

[ambchang]

Rudy was an exceptional motivator, no doubt. He was not an x's and o's guy.

He designed the entire inside out offense that won the rockets two championship, and were later copied by the shaq Lakers and Duncan spurs.

[ambchang]

Is that why his numbers dropped in the playoffs? Hakeem's second best scorer was Thorpe at 13.3 until he was traded for Drexler at the ASB. Pretty interesting that same Spurs team had a better offensive and defensive team rating.

Playoffs is a time a teams weakness get exploited. You have a team like the spurs, and the easiest way to stop them is to put your entire defense around Robinson and let the other guys beat you. Especially when the other guys include players who had one playoff three pointer in his entire career, or a guy who have trouble nailing wide open three pointer, a power forward who refuse to shoot or defend in order to get more rebounds or a coach who failed to implement any defensive schemes with one of the best defensive center and power forward of all time in the roster.

Hakeem couldn't even make the playoffs with a better roster 5 years prior in his prime. Try to guess what changed.

[ambchang]

Rudy was an exceptional motivator, no doubt. He was not an x's and o's guy.


Rudy T was a shit coach who got carried by Olajuwon. Look at what happened when he coached lesser stars elsewhere.

Rudy t had one style and it didn't fare well with no three point shooters. Coincidentally, Hakeem didn't do that week with no three point shooters. Wonder why.

[Thread]

And there was a time before Pop, before Duncan, when Media wasn't the lapdog they are now, but, a junk yard dog and they lit out after Robinson. Impugned his manhood. It was their pastime, a cottage industry.

[Killakobe81]

And there was a time before Pop, before Duncan, when Media wasn't the lapdog they are now, but, a junk yard dog and they lit out after Robinson. Impugned his manhood. It was their pastime, a cottage industry.

Robinson would be protected today no doubt about it. And even then I think his Navy pedigree and christian morals spared him the full wrath.
But today his win shares, wins over average replacement, PER, true shooting% d-rating, defensive win shares, adjusted plus/minus, points per/48 mins., poinst for adjusted pace would shield him for the very valid criticism anyone that saw him play could point out. The lack of a true post game and at times aggression being the achilles heel to his amazing speed, strength and natural athleticism.

[Killakobe81]

And for the record I love his natural talent. I saw him play as a kid in the Olympics (pre dream team) the guy was like a 7 foot Lebron (as a pure athlete) though not as bulky.

[djohn2oo8]

Playoffs is a time a teams weakness get exploited. You have a team like the spurs, and the easiest way to stop them is to put your entire defense around Robinson and let the other guys beat you. Especially when the other guys include players who had one playoff three pointer in his entire career, or a guy who have trouble nailing wide open three pointer, a power forward who refuse to shoot or defend in order to get more rebounds or a coach who failed to implement any defensive schemes with one of the best defensive center and power forward of all time in the roster.

Hakeem couldn't even make the playoffs with a better roster 5 years prior in his prime. Try to guess what changed.

Yeah he did make the playoffs 5 years prior in his prime. And to insinuate Hakeem needed 3 point shooters to even make the playoffs or win a ring when he was putting up 31, 11, and 4 against Magic, Kareem, and Worthy and then going up against Bird/McHale/Parish in his second year in the league is laughable.

[djohn2oo8]

Rudy t had one style and it didn't fare well with no three point shooters. Coincidentally, Hakeem didn't do that week with no three point shooters. Wonder why.

Coincidentally, Hakeem made the finals in 86 with a shitty squad and no three point shooters.

[Clipper Nation]

Robinson was so uncomfortable on the floor, from the beginning all the way to the end. LeBron is like that. Not to the degree that Robinson was, but, similar.
Though your Kirby looks comfortable in the bag.

[djohn2oo8]

Pop quiz hot shot. Do you know why the rockets were 6th seed that year after winning the championship the yer prior?

Also, he underachieved in the regular season with a championship squad.
lol 94 it was a one man team. Don't act like he had more help than in 86.

[Thread]

Though your Kirby looks comfortable in the bag.

Good morning, slope!

[ambchang]

Yeah he did make the playoffs 5 years prior in his prime. And to insinuate Hakeem needed 3 point shooters to even make the playoffs or win a ring when he was putting up 31, 11, and 4 against Magic, Kareem, and Worthy and then going up against Bird/McHale/Parish in his second year in the league is laughable.

:lol. He didn't make the playoffs 4 years prior. I guess the use of approximation in language is something you are. It familiar with. Next thin you know, I will be accused of being off by a couple of days because you know, the 91 and 94 playoffs didn't start on exact days.

And no, I am not insinuating Hakeem's can't make the playoffs without three pointers, I am insinuating Hakeem can't make the playoffs with a crap team, like every single player who ever played in the game.


Coincidentally, Hakeem made the finals in 86 with a shitty squad and no three point shooters.

You are throwing the entire 86 squad to prop up Hakeem? Good for you. Apparently throwing Rudy t, also known as the only coach who ever got the rockets a championship, under the bus is not enough for you.

The rockets were an up and coming team before the NBA got scared that it will kill their Lakers golden goose and suspended all those athletes who matches up with LA for drug use. They were also slightly. Slow average in 3p% and above average in 3pm that year. So no they did HAVE 3p shooting.


lol 94 it was a one man team. Don't act like he had more help than in 86.

94 rockets were a 6th seed? Why do I know more about rockets history off the top of my head than you do? You should have your rockets fan privileges revoked.

[Double-Up]

:lol. He didn't make the playoffs 4 years prior. I guess the use of approximation in language is something you are. It familiar with. Next thin you know, I will be accused of being off by a couple of days because you know, the 91 and 94 playoffs didn't start on exact days.

And no, I am not insinuating Hakeem's can't make the playoffs without three pointers, I am insinuating Hakeem can't make the playoffs with a crap team, like every single player who ever played in the game.



You are throwing the entire 86 squad to prop up Hakeem? Good for you. Apparently throwing Rudy t, also known as the only coach who ever got the rockets a championship, under the bus is not enough for you.

The rockets were an up and coming team before the NBA got scared that it will kill their Lakers golden goose and suspended all those athletes who matches up with LA for drug use. They were also slightly. Slow average in 3p% and above average in 3pm that year. So no they did HAVE 3p shooting.



94 rockets were a 6th seed? Why do I know more about rockets history off the top of my head than you do? You should have your rockets fan privileges revoked.

LOL...it's an honest mistake I'm guessing. Take it easy...:lol

[ambchang]

LOL...it's an honest mistake I'm guessing. Take it easy...:lol

Let him answer the question. It's akin to me saying the Spurs won in 02. It's not acceptable.

[djohn2oo8]

:lol. He didn't make the playoffs 4 years prior. I guess the use of approximation in language is something you are. It familiar with. Next thin you know, I will be accused of being off by a couple of days because you know, the 91 and 94 playoffs didn't start on exact days.

And no, I am not insinuating Hakeem's can't make the playoffs without three pointers, I am insinuating Hakeem can't make the playoffs with a crap team, like every single player who ever played in the game.

Your logic offends retarded people. Hakeem made the playoffs every year of his prime, except for 1 ( when he was hurt) , being that most of his career was playing with shitty teams, one example (88-89) when the next best players on that team were Thorpe, Sleepy Floyd, and Mike Woodson :lol. 87-88 where Sampson only played 19 games, Hakeem's all nba teammates included Rodney McCray and Sleepy floyd. 89-90 relying on Thorpe and Buck Johnson. 86-87, Sampson played 32 games, made playoffs with Robert Reid, McCray, Mitchell Wiggins, Jim Petersen. I'm sure you don't count Kenny Smith, Scott Brooks, Carl Herrera, Pete Chilcutt, Thorpe and Matt Bullard as good talent. I'm sure you don't.




You are throwing the entire 86 squad to prop up Hakeem? Good for you. Apparently throwing Rudy t, also known as the only coach who ever got the rockets a championship, under the bus is not enough for you.

The rockets were an up and coming team before the NBA got scared that it will kill their Lakers golden goose and suspended all those athletes who matches up with LA for drug use. They were also slightly. Slow average in 3p% and above average in 3pm that year. So no they did HAVE 3p shooting.



94 rockets were a 6th seed? Why do I know more about rockets history off the top of my head than you do? You should have your rockets fan privileges revoked.

The 86 squad was destroyed by drugs and injuries, the second best player in that finals series wasn't Sampson, it was Rodney McCray :lol. The team average for 3pt% was 27%, compared to 36% in 94-95, and 33% in 93-94. Where did I say the 94 rockets were a 6th seed? I said that was essentially the same team the next year until they traded for Drexler, and how that team in 94 had less help than in 86. My point was he didn't underachieve the next year when he was a one man show the previous year. You should stop moving goalposts now.

[ambchang]

Robinson would be protected today no doubt about it. And even then I think his Navy pedigree and christian morals spared him the full wrath.
But today his win shares, wins over average replacement, PER, true shooting% d-rating, defensive win shares, adjusted plus/minus, points per/48 mins., poinst for adjusted pace would shield him for the very valid criticism anyone that saw him play could point out. The lack of a true post game and at times aggression being the achilles heel to his amazing speed, strength and natural athleticism.

His advanced stats were out of this world. The problem though, is that he played out of position his entire career. Robinson was a PF, even a SF, not a C. But in those days, you are a center when you are 7 feet tall.

Robinson playing a role similar to Garnett, or even Karl Malone would be unstoppable. Having him go pick and roll, shoot 18 footers, pass out of the high post, do cuts and alley-oops would have him destroy the entire league. Larry Brown knew how to use him, but then he left. Jerry Tarkanian, Lucas, and Bob Hill didn't know how to use him, and were all way below average NBA coaches (wit that 2 out of the 3 couldn't even land an NBA head coaching job after all those 50 win seasons with the Spurs, and Lucas just sucked).

Robinson was a superb athlete who didn't really have a natural feel for the low post game, he still played like a top 25 player of all time playing out of position his entire career. That's how good he was.

Imagine sticking Garnett or Karl Malone at center, they wouldn't have the same level of success they did throughout their career, either.

[baseline bum]

Tarkanian coached maybe 20 games bro.

[ambchang]

Your logic offends retarded people.

I'd say we can agree on this, you seem to be offended.


Hakeem made the playoffs every year of his prime, except for 1 ( when he was hurt) , being that most of his career was playing with shitty teams, one example (88-89) when the next best players on that team were Thorpe, Sleepy Floyd, and Mike Woodson :lol. 87-88 where Sampson only played 19 games, Hakeem's all nba teammates included Rodney McCray and Sleepy floyd. 89-90 relying on Thorpe and Buck Johnson. 86-87, Sampson played 32 games, made playoffs with Robert Reid, McCray, Mitchell Wiggins, Jim Petersen. I'm sure you don't count Kenny Smith, Scott Brooks, Carl Herrera, Pete Chilcutt, Thorpe and Matt Bullard as good talent. I'm sure you don't.

The Rockets probably would have made the playoffs in 91 if Hakeem played a full 82 as an 8th seed, but he still played almost 60 games that season, and the team generally stunk. The West was generally weak in that era as well, basically what is opposite to what we have now.

And you are trashing on Thorpe? Really, Otis Thorpe? The guy wasn't the next Kareem, but he was a solid 17/10 guy who does a bunch of dirty work in the middle. Solid defensive player. He was as good as, if not better than Elliott, who happened to be the best teammate Robinson had during his entire prime. And yet players who played with Hakeem but was better than Thorpe included Drexler (past his prime, but still better), Sampson (only for a short period of time). Others on the same tier include Rodney McCray, Lewis Lloyd, and to an extent, Mitchell Wiggins (too bad he got hooked on the stuff). The 86 Rockets team was a team of long, athletic wings flanking the twin towers. Lacks a bit of playmaking, but that was a dynamic team that matches up perfectly with the Lakers. Well, too bad Stern had ideas of propping up the Lakers and suspended all those matchup nightmares the Lakers had. I find it hard to believe that none of the hard-partyers on the Lakers ever got caught, while a number of Rockets and Roy Tarpley from the Mavs (who also happen to match up well against the Lakers) were caught.


The 86 squad was destroyed by drugs and injuries, the second best player in that finals series wasn't Sampson, it was Rodney McCray :lol. The team average for 3pt% was 27%, compared to 36% in 94-95, and 33% in 93-94. Where did I say the 94 rockets were a 6th seed? I said that was essentially the same team the next year until they traded for Drexler, and how that team in 94 had less help than in 86. My point was he didn't underachieve the next year when he was a one man show the previous year. You should stop moving goalposts now.

You comparing 86 3pt shooting to 95 3 pt shooter shows that:
a) My first sentence of this post was correct
b) You didn't even take into account the shorter 3 pt line
c) You had no appreciation of the way the league used the three point line over the years.

For point c, the league use in 3 pters EXPLODED after the b2b championship winning system implemented by Rudy T. That system wouldn't have worked without Hakeem, but Rudy T introduced an element that was widely underused in the league up to that point, and it was the use of 3 pt shooters around a dominant inside.

You can compare 3 pt shooting, especially on a team basis, across different eras of basketball. The league, on average, shot 28% from 3 in 86. The league shot an average of 33% from 3 in 94, and 36% in 95. That transformation continued. Despite the league ending the shorter three point line, the league still shot 36% from 3 last year, and 3pta exploded during that time. You would never see players shoot 8 3pa/gm in the 80s. In fact, 14 of the 20 3pa/gm shooting seasons were after 2000, with 5 of the remaining 6 with the shorter three point line. The only exception was Michael Adams, who played with the run and gun Westhead Nuggets who got the green light to shooter whatever he liked, because the team sucked.

In terms of Ralph Sampson, I really hoped you watched that series. Sampson struggled because he was the focus of defense for the Celtics. The Celtics was a great internal defensive team with McHale, Parish and Walton. Even the great Hakeem "struggled" with 48% shooting for the series. Kudos to Hakeem for still being clearly the best player on the Rockets, but to dismiss and say that McCray was the 2nd best player based purely on points scored and FG% is, as you would put it, retarded. Sampson put up impressive passing and rebounding in that series, but he ultimately choked. That is no surprise, but he was a HUGE part of why the Rockets made the finals in the first place.

[ambchang]

Tarkanian coached maybe 20 games bro.

Because he sucked as a pro coach. The only thing he was right on was the Spurs PG situation sucked so much that it was not even worth coaching.

[Ashy Larry]

http://www.balloverall.com/sites/default/files/u-18/hakeem_spurs.jpg/thread

[spurraider21]

i wasn't exactly an avid NBA watcher during the 80's and 90's so i'm not going to pretend i know the answer to this question. they both have monstrous numbers, hakeem had more team success in his prime, robinson won when tim came around.

my main observation is that people take the 95 WCF and run with it as if one playoff series is the determining factor when ranking players.

[ambchang]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_1996_WCS.html#SEA-HOU

Thunder fans can now legitimately say Kemp > Hakeem.

One series, sonics swept the rockets AND Hakeem got waxed by kemp.

[ezau]

And there was a time before Pop, before Duncan, when Media wasn't the lapdog they are now, but, a junk yard dog and they lit out after Robinson. Impugned his manhood. It was their pastime, a cottage industry.

As long as Duncan>Kobe, the universe is in perfect harmony. Let us proceed Dale, I'll carry your hand if you want me to.

[baseline bum]

i wasn't exactly an avid NBA watcher during the 80's and 90's so i'm not going to pretend i know the answer to this question. they both have monstrous numbers, hakeem had more team success in his prime, robinson won when tim came around.

my main observation is that people take the 95 WCF and run with it as if one playoff series is the determining factor when ranking players.

To me the determining factor was Olajuwon winning it all twice as the best player on the team while DRob got owned by Utah.

[Thread]

As long as Duncan>Kobe, the universe is in perfect harmony. Let us proceed Dale, I'll carry your hand if you want me to.

Kobe: 5

the tired old shit bag Duncan: 5

[Thread]

To me the determining factor was Olajuwon winning it all twice as the best player on the team while DRob got owned by Utah.

& his own failings. There is a time to put the good book aside---pick up the hammer, take up the tong. Duncan did it for him. Now, that man is "tired" and was carried by his "Duncan"...Leonard.

[djohn2oo8]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_1996_WCS.html#SEA-HOU

Thunder fans can now legitimately say Kemp > Hakeem.

One series, sonics swept the rockets AND Hakeem got waxed by kemp.

You should probably find the nearest cliff and attempt your best Peter Pan.

[ezau]

Kobe: 5

the tired old shit bag Duncan: 5

Duncan:


5 rings
3 FMVPS
2 MVPS


Kobe:


5 Rings
2 FMVPs
1 MVP


Boiled down:


Duncan>Kobe

I know it's painful to see all those tiebreakers going Timmy's way, but it is what it is Dale. You must have had flashbacks of American choppers leaving Vietnam for good when you saw Duncan surpass Kobe last June 14, 2014. If you survived Vietnam, you will surely get over Duncan>Kobe pretty quickly. Now, let us proceed.

[Thread]

Duncan:


5 rings
3 FMVPS
2 MVPS


Kobe:


5 Rings
2 FMVPs
1 MVP


Boiled down:


Duncan>Kobe

I know it's painful to see all those tiebreakers going Timmy's way, but it is what it is Dale. You must have had flashbacks of American choppers leaving Vietnam for good when you saw Duncan surpass Kobe last June 14, 2014. If you survived Vietnam, you will surely get over Duncan>Kobe pretty quickly. Now, let us proceed.

Fine. You take that. Me? I'm dancin' with who brung me.

Kobe: 5

the tired old shit bag Duncan: 5

[ambchang]

To me the determining factor was Olajuwon winning it all twice as the best player on the team while DRob got owned by Utah.

Rockets won twice. Spurs lost to Utah.

Name me one single center who ever won a title with a starting point guard who made a single three pointer in his entire playoff career.

Not saying Robinson > Hakeem, but Robinson was put in an environment to fail, much like Hakeem in the late 80s early 90s.

[ezau]

Fine. You take that. Me? I'm dancin' with who brung me.

Kobe: 5

the tired old shit bag Duncan: 5

Nope, there's only one equation that suits this and it's Duncan>Kobe. God, look at how beautiful and simple it is Dale. Just 11 characters and yet there's so much truth to it.

[ambchang]

You should probably find the nearest cliff and attempt your best Peter Pan.

What was wrong with that logic? It was exactly the same one you used to compare Hakeem and Robinson.

Hey, at least I know the rockets were the 6th seed in 95 and the NBA shortened the three point line in 95.

"Rockets fan".