***NL West 2011***

[ducks]

yeah and street was like wtf

I think hudson is going to drill someone in denver

[ducks]

sat us not on fsn
going to have to find a tv

[JMarkJohns]

I think it will be. There's no way they don't televise Kennedy/Lincecum. No way. I understand it's the start of college football, but it needs to be on TV. Either air it, or give permission for 3-TV to air it.

[ducks]

mlb free game of the day is the dbacks vs giants
so I can watch it on my computer! YEAH!


http://mlb.mlb.com/mediacenter/index.jsp?ymd=20110903

[JMarkJohns]

7 games up, 22 to play... Great series win! Upton isn't even playing well and the Diamondbacks are winning. Once he gets it going again, watch out! The trip up series is this next one. After winning this series in such a satisfying way, a letdown could be on the horizon, especially if Upton can't come out of his tailspin.

Hopefully Gibson keeps 'em focused. I wish the Giants would make this more competitive. In the last decade the teams playing meaningful baseball into the last week of the season have done better than teams who could "rest" or coast their way in. Wouldn't mind seeing them cut into the lead a bit, but I want it to come with the Diamondbacks playing well, not poorly. So, let's say in the next 10 Arizona goes 6 or 7 of 10, but Giants go 8/9 of 10. Something just to put a little bit of pressure on the Diamondbacks for the stretch.

[ducks]

yeah I want the giants to push them
I hope Gibby says lets catch the brewers. They are only 3 back.
Upton has not played well for 9 days. Usually he has snapped after it after 4 days. maybe after the eject today. He will be fresh. The big lead would be nice to give upton a day off.

[ducks]

now upton has a cold
sanders had a cold in col
that stupid rain weather in col

should dbacks catch the brewers
one game back loss colum

I like their chances against phil in 5 games not 7

[JMarkJohns]

Yes, catch the Brewers, gain home-field advantage vs. the suddenly injured Braves, see what happens after the Phillies and Brewers hopefully beat each other up a bit.

You want home-field for many, many reasons.

[JMarkJohns]

Don't know for how long, especially considering how the game ended, but Diamondbacks move past Brewers after dramatic walk-off-walk in 10 vs. the Padres.

[ducks]

they lost today but made a game out of it late again were down 7-0
still 15 straight wins at home and upton was not in game tell he pitched hit in 7
brewers and dbacks tied in loss collum

[symple19]

man, the Giants are done. Hope the D-backs can go deep

[ducks]

makes me sick that j-up gets pitched in by dodgers and he can not adjust all series
come on

para is the man

[ducks]

man, the Giants are done. Hope the D-backs can go deep

what are they going to do next year?
trade some pitching for o players

[ducks]

broke bat homerun for j-up

[ducks]

ian 20 wins

[ducks]

got my playoff tickets

[ducks]

dbacks celebrate while giants watch hehehehehehe

[ducks]

tim hitting upton in head
atleast he checked to make sure he was ok
this late in the season players hitting playoff teams should be fined and more...
not right

[JMarkJohns]

In my opinion, Gibson is taking the bitch way out of these situations. He doesn't want to risk suspension from a fight or retaliation, so he doesn't do anything. I'm glad Collmentor got a win and all, but he should have been ordered to nail Lincecum his first at-bat. Had Collmentor been allowed to stay in, and had Lincecum gotten a second at-bat, I hit him again.

It's not about individual retribution for the Upton HBP, but about sending a message to pitchers that screams, "You hit us, YOU are getting hit!" I have yet to see a real retaliation of hit-for-hit. Maybe this is smart, but Upton is getting pitched much differently because pitchers have measured him, and determined he's not going to charge 'em, and measured the manager and determined he ain't gonna do crap back.

[JMarkJohns]

Great season for the team from nowhere... Expectations next season will be high with all the young talent they have.

Way I see it, Diamondbacks need to do several things to maintain and advance to next level...

First, they need to cut lose Saunders at his current price. He's too inconsistent for the cost/production, and his money can be used elsewhere for what is really needed. Same with Hill. He played great, and if he can be re-signed for two or three years at a half-price per year deal, then he's a good keep, but his current option pays him for the 2008 production of 30+ homers, which he's never shown capable of hitting again, not even at his best with Arizona.

Second, they need to develop a legit 7th-inning option, whether it is Shaw with Patterson for heavy lefty lineups, or use of some of their stud pitching prospects.

Third, they need to address either 3B, 2B or SS with a legitimate offensive upgrade, whether through trade or free agency.

Lastly, they need to revamp their rotation. They have many of their own prospects, but could use a veteran.

So, what do they have that they need to keep?

- Rotation -

SP: Kennedy - great #2 option going forward, but for now a legit ace until the young studs of either Parker/Skaggs/Bauer develop into the true ace. Showed good poise, even in defeat, and is still young. Could still be improving as well, however, he's more a poor-man's Greg Maddux than Curt Schilling, and it's this lack of strikeout ability that makes him a better 2/3 option than #1, and his starts vs. Milwaukee and Gallardo show this. Versus great offenses, you need the ability to get the K when you have to have it, and Kennedy can't do it consistently enough.

SP: Hudson - I like, but I have my concerns. I think if he can develop as a #4 he's a keeper, but I have it on good authority teams were inquiring about his availability last offseason through the trade deadline. This makes him an option for trades I'll discuss later.

SP: Collmentor - I was certain he'd become long-relief a few months back. He still might, but he's really starting to come around. If he can turn his curve into a third + pitch, then he'll stick as a really solid #, better #4 and a GREAT #5 (likely).

SP: Parker - Still too early, but he'll start the season in the rotation, and has dominant stuff. Good velocity and can really pitch. A lot of people are saying he's like Kennedy with better velocity, so he could prove to have the K-ability IPK lacks. Still, my guess is he nestles in at #3 for now behind Kennedy and Hudson (should he be kept).

- Bullpen -

LHP: Patterson - great specialist who's shown ability to handle the occasional righty. Definite keeper, maybe more of a defined role.

RHP: Shaw - Great strikeout/groundball reliever who can become the emergency specialist when innings go south. Could develop into eventual set-up role when Putz is replaced after this up-coming season (more than likely).

RHP: Hernandez - Dominant and eventual All-Star closer, I'm certain. Needs to work on control, which will help consistency, but he is unhittable most times, which is exactly what you want from a closer. For now, top-3 set-up man in baseball from second-half through playoffs.

RHP: Putz - He's good for now. Very solid, and when focused, unhittable, but he allows a few too many baserunners, which is tempting fate too often. One more year then the transition to Hernandez who owned baseball in his audition for the future role.

- Position Players -

RF: Upton - Enough said. Really starting to prove his worth. Needs more consistency and more protection.

1B: Goldschmidt - Has so much potential. Really an amazing prospect. His power is elite, and his eye is getting much better. He'll always be a strikeout liability, but his learning curve amidst pressure and great pitching indicates he's going to be a star.

C: Montero - Needs to be more of a 6th-spot hitter, but he's a keeper and his defense became very impressive. In a contending lineup, he's not relied upon as heavily, but he's proven valuable at the plate.

INF: Drew - There's a good chance he's moved to 2nd or 3rd due to mobility concerns. But his bat is very good, and if hi power returns to normal, he's a real solid 2-hole hitter in front of Upton.

- Potential Keepers -

CF: Young - I think he's a keeper. I suspect his thumb injury is what kept him down, and while his numbers suffered, he really developed a steady eye at the plate. Despite batting like 50-points lower in the second half, his OBP was roughly equal due to an increase in walks. If he can combine the eye with the power and first-half batting average, he could be an All-Star again.

LF: Parra - He's young, cheap, improving offensively, and great defensively. I can't imagine they give up on him, despite his postseason struggles. If he can develop his in-field hit ability (like the bunting he was flirting with) he could even develop into a solid leadoff bat.

INF: Roberts - He's either going to stay at 3B or move to 2B depending on acquisitions. He's improving, but he's a prime candidate to regress. He's never played at this level, is at an age where improvement isn't expected/typical, and while he's strong defensively, he's not so great he can't be relegated to a utility INF/pinch-hitter role should his offense return to normal.

- The Pitching Options -

LHP: Skaggs - Dominated AA, named All-Star, and is likely to be listed as a top-20, maybe top-10 overall prospect. He's still young, so he may be a half-a-year away, but he's proven skilled-beyond-his-years and is an eventual #1 pitcher prospect.

RHP: Bauer - I think he'll be in the rotation at the season's start. He's got some of the best stuff in the entire minor leagues and dominated in most of his starts. He lines up behind Kennedy, Hudson, Collmentor and Parker.

FA/Trade: Veteran SP - Might be Saunders for the right price, might be another should they opt not to call up two rookies at once.

- The Hitting Options -

SS or 3B: SS Reyes, 3B Zimmerman, 3B Wright - Diamondbacks want to solidify their lineup and either get another top-of-the-order hitter or a legitimate cleanup hitter. They have the prospects to get it done via trade, and, if they let Hill and Saunders go, have the money to bring in a star as well. Reyes makes sense if the management believes Goldschmidt is a legit #4 within the next two years. He gets on base, is great on the basepaths and is good defensively. A 6-year, 80-million deal could be enough. I've heard rumblings the Royals have strong interest in Hudson, and have offered two of their 3-5 prospects for him. If the Diamondbacks include Borchering or Davidson and Miley, they might be able to swing a deal for Zimmerman. With Reyes, I think Roberts stays 3B and Drew moves 2B. With Zimmerman or Wright, Roberts moves to SS and Drew to 2B.

- Ideally -

SP: Kennedy (-2)
SP: Hudson (-2)
SP: Collmentor (+/1-2)
SP: Parker (+4/-1)
SP: Bauer (+5)

1. Reyes (S)
2. Drew (L)
3. Upton (R)
4. Montero (L)
5. Goldschmidt (R)
6. Young (R)
7. Parra (L)
8. Roberts (R)

I think I prefer signing someone than trading Hudson and the prospect depth in the organization. Davidson is still a high B/B+ prospect at 3B, and Borchering is considered it's best overall hitting prospect, though this opinion is waning. This option adds run-potential at the top of the lineup, and keeps reserves in the wings in case a trade is needed later, or a call up is needed for a struggling Roberts.

Overall, the future is extremely bright. A trade might be necessary just to maximize the farm system. Skaggs is a keeper, as is Bauer in my opinion. Parker might be redundant with Kennedy matching this season's success, and Hudson is a good pitcher who's young/cheap. My guess is if a move must be made, Hudson is the one to go with Parker next.

It'd be amazing if the Diamondbacks could somehow swing a deal that including Hudson and Parker for a legit #2 veteran, similar to what the Brewers did with Grienke last offseason.

[JMarkJohns]

A good article on the Diamondbacks 2012 payroll...

2012 Contract Issues: Arizona Diamondbacks
By Tim Dierkes [May 23, 2011 at 8:51am CST]

The surging Diamondbacks are next in our 2012 Contract Issues series. Here's what the team faces after the 2011 season:

Eligible For Free Agency (4)

* Kelly Johnson is the Diamondbacks' biggest free agent and may be a trade candidate if he returns to his 2010 form. NOTE: Was traded for Aaron Hill and John McDonald. The Diamondbacks hold an 8 million option on Hill, and will likely decline. However, it is rumored Hill would like to renegotiate his current deal to stay for more years at a lesser price. If a 3-year, 15 deal can be reached, Hill doubles his guaranteed money on a team he wants to play for.
* Melvin Mora had a resurgent 2010 for the Rockies, but he's struggling so far with Arizona. Xavier Nady and Aaron Heilman, also signed to one-year free agent deals, have failed to produce as well. NOTE: All players will be gone, more than likely. Nady, the only player to last past the All-Star break, could be brought back as a backup to Goldschmidt.

Contract Options (3)

* Zach Duke: $5.5MM club option with a $750K buyout. Duke is currently rehabbing in the minors after breaking his pitching hand in mid-March. If the lefty is to be retained at a $4.75MM net price, he'll need a solid four months. NOTE: Will not be picked up from everything I'm hearing.
* Henry Blanco: $1.15MM mutual option with a $250K buyout. NOTE: Will likely be brought back.
* Willie Bloomquist: $1.1MM mutual option with a $150K buyout. Kevin Towers dished out three mutual options last offseason, the most of any team. This was just a way to push $400K onto next year's payroll. NOTE: Could be axed for Hill's extension.

Arbitration Eligible (8)

* First time: Juan Gutierrez, Gerardo Parra, Ryan Roberts
* Second time: Josh Wilson, Micah Owings
* Third time: Joe Saunders, Miguel Montero, Sean Burroughs

Parra and Roberts will be on the Super Two borderline, assuming it is around two years and 146 days. Saunders is the big money case, as he's working from a $5.5MM salary. However, if he continues along with an ERA over 5.00, he'll probably be non-tendered. Montero will still provide good value, though the catcher's salary could climb past $5MM. Gutierrez's salary should remain reasonable, while Wilson, Owings, and Burroughs will probably be cut loose. If Saunders is cut, Arizona's arbitration eligibles shouldn't cost much more than $8MM. NOTE: Underlined players will be kept, other likely non-tendered.

2012 Payroll Obligation

The Diamondbacks' 2012 payroll obligation, according to Cot's, is $28.908MM if Duke's option is declined. Throw in $8MM for arbitration eligibles and the D'Backs are still about $20MM under their 2011 payroll before accounting for minimum salary players. The payroll exceeded $70MM in each of the two previous years, and a return to that level would give Towers over $30MM in 2012 salaries to work with.
- - - - - - - - - - - -
Should the Diamondbacks keep Hill with a 5-per extension, retain Blanco, and offer arbitration to the underlined names, they'll likely have 14-18 million in CAP if they intend to operate on a 70+ million payroll. This is way some think they'll be a player for a legit offensive acquisition, like a Reyes or a Zimmerman.

Diamondbacks also need to start working on a contract extension for Kennedy and Montero, with the latter potentially saving them money vs. a one-year arbitration number.

[ducks]

Collmentor is like max (former dback pitcher)
two types of of pitches only really
expect josh throws soft max throws hard
do not want josh to be like enright


to me josh next year will be at worse a number 5
josh will work more on that curve ball this offseason
ian easily is a 2 maybe a ace in a year or two
trevor has number one all over him in 2 years
goldy is easily a number 4

miggy is great when he does not try to park every pitch

[ducks]

I would trade hudson for Zimmerman

[ducks]

I would get rid of saunders hopefully yankees overpay he pitched in al before
skaggs is a lefty can take saunders place in starting pitching soon
like skaggs to pitch in triple a before being brought up

[JMarkJohns]

I would trade hudson for Zimmerman

It would take more than Hudson. Likely Borchering or Davidson. For all their pitching depth, it might not be most beneficial to trade Hudson for offense just yet. He's a sure #2 behind Kennedy.

I would prefer to trade Parker/Miley/Borchering or Davidson for Zimmerman.

Talks of Reyes may have been premature. Word is Reyes is looking for a 5/6, 100/120 million deal. That's too steep. Rather keep Hill and trade for a quality 3B, like Zimmerman.

Build around Kennedy, Hudson, Collmentor, Bauer and Skaggs for starters and Upton, Zimmerman, Goldschmidt, Montero and Young on offense.

Should this happen, eventually Skaggs and Bauer move past Kennedy, Hudson and Collmentor. Should the need arise, maybe trade Hudson for prospects in a year or two for continued depth. Archie Bradley could be ready by 2014.

[ducks]

Third baseman David Wright is showing greatly diminished range, a rival scout tells Andrew Keh of the New York Times.
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/jose_reyes/

[ducks]

Braun: Team More Likely To Sign Reyes Than Fielder
By Zach Links [October 9, 2011 at 8:35am CST]
Brewers outfielder Ryan Braun believes that the club is more likely to land Jose Reyes in free agency than re-sign Prince Fielder, writes Mike Puma of the New York Post.

Braun assumes that Fielder will likely command upwards of $150MM this winter whereas Reyes can be had for around $120MM. The four-time All-Star was quick to admit that he's a huge fan of Reyes.

"[Reyes] is dynamic, man -- he is one of the most exciting players in the game," the 27-year-old said. "He plays with a lot of energy and a lot of emotion and I enjoy watching him play. He's one of my favorite players to watch. Whenever their games are on, I love watching him, man. He always plays the game the right way. He always plays hard. He runs everything out."

The Brewers can easily make room at shortstop this winter as they hold a $6MM club option on Yuniesky Betancourt's deal with a $2MM buyout.
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/jose_reyes/

[ducks]

Wright's club option for 2013 becomes void if he's dealt, making him a free agent after next season.

[ducks]

Borchering, the Diamondbacks' first-round pick in the 2009 draft, is being transitioned to left field, tweets Piecoro. Borchering has played first and third base in his first three pro seasons.

[JMarkJohns]

Yeah, not sure about Wright. I'm throwing around names I've heard and nothing more. Nationals realize they aren't challenging for the next two years. Zimmerman will be a high-priced FA by that point and likely a goner from their organization, so it makes sense to trade him. The Nats main man, Rizzo, drafted Parker for the Diamondbacks, so it would make sense that he'd be interested. Include Holmberg and Borchering or Davidson and they have two A prospects and a B prospect (Parker would be a great #2 behind Strasburg, Holmberg projects as high as a #3, and Borchering and Davidson are stud 3B prospects). If Necessary, throw in Miley or another offensive prospect.

If they can't land Reyes or Zimmerman, I'd rather they not spend just to spend (not that I figure they will). Re-sign Hill to a reasonable 3/4 year, 13/17 million deal, keep Bloomquist, and maybe sign Kouzmanoff or someone at 3B, if Burroughs isn't retained. Wait and see what's available around the trade deadline, or see if Davidson is ready as a prospect and see if he can't pull a Goldschmidt and come in and contribute as a rookie.

The reason I could see them making a run at Reyes is the need at SS long-term. Drew is a FA after the year, and coming off a serious injury that has doubts about his range for the next five/six years. Reyes answers that. If his market is closer to 17/18 per than 20+, I could see them taking the risk and moving Drew to 2B or, even better, 3B, and Roberts to 2B with Bloomquist as the utility INF. Reyes also ensures steady top of the order production amidst concerns over Drew and regression of Roberts.

[JMarkJohns]

Borchering, the Diamondbacks' first-round pick in the 2009 draft, is being transitioned to left field, tweets Piecoro. Borchering has played first and third base in his first three pro seasons.

He transitioned because Davidson is a top 3B prospect already, while LF (Parra/Cowgill) was a question mark before Parra played so well this season, and 1B seemed a concern before Goldy entrenched himself this past season. A lot of people thought Schmidty's 2010 season could have been a fluke. It clearly wasn't.

Borchering can still be developed as a 3B, the position he was drafted as and developed as for at least one season.

[ducks]

thanks

[ducks]

I do not like the idea of trading parker
I would trade hudson first
parker has already had tommy surgery. all pitchers have to have it
hudson is to hard on himself
I think mentally he can not get out of the first inning without giving up atleast one run.

[ducks]

The Diamondbacks were awarded an August waiver claim on White Sox first baseman Paul Konerko, two sources tell Bob Nightengale of USA Today, but trade discussions didn't progress, as the South Siders were targeting Goldschmidt, whom the Snakes weren't interested in trading. Konerko, who would have had to approve the trade because of his 10-and-5 rights, said a deal was never brought to him -- and he's not sure whether he would have accepted.:wow

[JMarkJohns]

Hudson still has a lot of potential, just look at last season's second half with Arizona, and he's still cheap. He's also proven. Parker is a top prospect - emphasis on prospect - and is the lesser of the the big three the Diamondbacks have ready to hit the bigs, as both Skaggs and Bauer project as legit #1 starter options while Parker is likely a #2 option max.

I'm on board with trading Hudson if it makes sense, but I'm not sure trading proven pitchers for offense makes sense of your offense will go to battle for a very young and untested rotation, no matter how talented. Sometimes the devil ya know is better than that you don't, and Hudson, for his flaws, is a really solid pitcher who eats innings, strikes out batters and is very cheap for several years. He's cheaper than Parker. He's a legit #3 going forward once Bauer dominates and a great #4 or trade bait in a year or two after Skaggs supplants him, joining Bauer and Kennedy atop the rotation.

I would prefer to not trade any of the pitching yet, but Diamondbacks are spending money on 1B, and Reyes may be too costly, and they could really use a legit 3B stud while keeping their competitive edge (which means keeping proven pitching). Of Skaggs (untouchable), Bauer, and Parker, Parker is the one I'd part with if it meant getting Zimmerman.

[ducks]

Sands: Dodgers’ 2012 Left Fielder?
RotoWire.com Staff - RotoWire.com
11 hours, 45 minutes ago


tweet0EmailPrintUpdate: The Dodgers are leaning towards Sands as their everyday left fielder next year, the LA Times reports.

Recommendation: Of course Ned Colletti could still do something insane like sign Aaron Rowand(notes), but barring an unexpected signing of Albert Pujols(notes) or Prince Fielder(notes) (with James Loney(notes) moving to the outfield), Sands looks to be in line for regular playing time next season.

[JMarkJohns]

The Dodgers have like 80 million wrapped up in their top 7 guys. They aren't signing Pujols or Fielder. No chance. Not without clearing Ethier and Billingsly.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

parker has already had tommy surgery. all pitchers have to have it
:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao holy fuck one of the dumbest things ducks has ever said went completely unnoticed.

[JayTheClown]

:depressed

[Monostradamus]

parker has already had tommy surgery. all pitchers have to have it

:lmao seriously, how did we miss this? HOW??????

[Axe Murderer]

:lol i never look in this thread either

[JMarkJohns]

Well, I know why they did it, and can even understand it, but I am pretty upset the Diamondbacks traded a consensus A/A- prospect in Jarrod Parker to Oakland for Cahill and a mediocre lefty reliever in Breslow. I know Cahill is a veteran locked in at a reasonable rate for several years, and that Breslow has had a number of very good years as a lefty specialist, but Parker was widely considered a potential #2 starter and possible All-Star.

They better hope Cahill sticks and makes a real significant impact as a long-time #3 starter on a NL Pennant contending team, because if the Diamondbacks regress and fail to make the playoffs, and Parker hits the potential many expect for him, this trade will look very bad for a very long time.

LMAO trading a top-3 team pitching prospect from the best minor league system for pitching for a pitcher-park hurler with a 4.16 ERA last season.

[ducks]

I hate the trade
I liked the way parker pitched
I would have been ok with another prospect not parker
I am not sold on hudson either
I had parker behind ian
I think hudson is a number 4

I wished the dbacks would have just let parker,bauer,skaggs battle it out for the 2 spots and trade saunders

[ducks]

the way towers sounds they are sold on josh as a starter but with this trade it sounds like maybe they think the pen

[ducks]

parker at the worse this year would have been a number 3

[JMarkJohns]

I once joked the NL was about four years from Armageddon with Arizona's Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse. They still have Bauer, Skaggs, and Bradley, but I'm not sure Kennedy will be at his peak or in his prime when those three are dominating the way Parker would have been. Plus Kennedy will be pretty expensive by then.

Sucks. I know he had TJS, but he was young, showed significant growth, and was widely regarded as very intelligent and had really strong command. He was a nibbler, sort of like Kennedy, or a better historic example, Maddux, so his K/BB ratio was never great, but he used empty pitches to set up future pitches, had mid-90s fastball and three other plus pitches. Plus, as Skaggs' tweats allude to, he was a leader of men, which is invaluable in the clubhouse with a young staff. Just a short-sighted move by a GM thinking this team is good enough to contend as presently assembled. Maybe win 90 games and compete for the playoffs, but true contention wasn't likely until Bauer, Skaggs and Parker came up in the next three years.

[DJ Mbenga]

the nl west is looking pathetic next season. its anyones division by default since its so shitty

[ducks]

the shitty division 2 years ago won the ws

[JMarkJohns]

Yeah, I've heard the "shitty" division crap for a while. In the meantime reality says it's not nearly as bad as people make it out to be as, in the last decade, the division had two WS Champions (AZ 2001, SF 2010), two additional NL Pennant winners (SF 2002, CO 2007) and multiple other NLCS participants (AZ 2007, LA 2008). It's had a ton of CY Youngs and MVPs in that time as well.

Next season Arizona will get a full year of Goldschmidt and likely see Bauer, if not Skaggs make their MLB debuts. San Francisco will get Posey back at some point and shouldn't fall off too much pitching-wise. Also, Los Angeles will have the same CY Young/MVP combo in Kershaw and Kemp, and be out from under the scandal of last season.

I think there's plenty of talent to make noise, it's just not the assemblages that other franchises have, but that doesn't mean it's not capable of winning.