Harvey: Franchise of a Finals: Ginobili goes global

[Kori Ellis]

Buck Harvey: Franchise of a Finals: Ginobili goes global
Web Posted: 06/05/2005 12:00 AM CDT
San Antonio Express-News

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/columnists/bharvey/stories/MYSA060505.1C.COL.BKNharvey.2e1a8de17.html


Manu is Man U.

Manu, at least for the next few weeks, is Manchester United. He will become a one-man global sports franchise, playing in the NBA Finals as this era's international innovation, and it's part of the dynamic that David Stern hoped for years ago when the Dream Team won over Barcelona.

With Manu Ginobili starring — impacting the Spurs as he did Argentina in the 2004 Olympics — doesn't the world have yet another reason to take hold of this game?

A number of international players have already made it to the Finals, but no one has been like Ginobili. Toni Kukoc was Europe's Magic Johnson, for example, but he became a sixth man next to Michael Jordan.

Vlade Divac was similarly cast with Magic in 1991, and Detlef Schrempf came to the league with American schooling. Hakeem Olajuwon also played in college as Houston's adopted son, and he eventually switched nationalities to play for the United States in the Olympics.

And then there are the superstars listed by the NBA as international players, such as Patrick Ewing and Tim Duncan. Does anyone really see them as foreign?

Ginobili is the new-age international face, born on another continent, bred in another league, leading another country to a gold medal. He showed up in San Antonio in 2002 with his game already formed, and he helped win a title coming off the bench that season.

Now he's more. When the Finals begin in the SBC Center on Thursday, Ginobili will play as an All-Star, as someone who can both excite and dominate — as the next step in the NBA's economic development.

Few saw this coming just a generation ago, and one forgotten moment two decades ago outlines the change. Then Stern, according to a recent story in the Washington Post, sold the NBA's television rights for Argentina for the grand total of $2,000.

"Hey, we were fighting for coverage," Stern told the Post.

An Argentine soccer color analyst wrote the check, then cobbled together highlights to put on late at night. And who was watching then? Seven-year-old Manu.

The Dream Team would follow, as would better TV deals. As reported elsewhere, about 15 percent of the NBA's non-local television revenue comes from international sales.

The contracts are piecemeal, often done with different countries at different times with different prices. An NBA exec said, for example, he saw a contract come through the league office just last week for WNBA telecasts in Mozambique.

To air that, the $2,000 price might be steep.

The rest of the product has grown. These Finals will be a windfall profit in Argentina, of course, and probably in France, too. But the package also has grown worldwide to more than 200 countries.

China still offers the most potential, and the NBA's thrust there is the envy of other sports leagues. But this month the NBA offers more than Yao Ming, and this is a selling point that couldn't be scripted.

Manu. He brings in Central and South America, naturally. Ginobili will conduct a conference call Monday with journalists from as many as 10 Central and South American countries, from Puerto Rico to Chile.

Mexico is no different. An NBA events manager familiar with the Mexican fan base says that country favors the Spurs not because they play in nearby South Texas, but because Ginobili plays for them.

But Ginobili also brings in Europe, where he played, as well as others around the world who have seen the Olympics as the real championship. For the first time, a non-American will be trying to follow a gold medal with an NBA title.

Doesn't Ginobili, then, make everyone a part of the Finals?

More than TV rights will be affected. About 20 percent of NBA merchandising last year came from sales outside the United States.

"Is the tangible dollar being made right now because Manu will be in the Finals?" an NBA official asked last week. "Maybe not. The international revenue may not maximum itself for another five or 10 years.

"But he's part of what is building, and he represents the natural follow to the Dream Team. Before you had little Manu watching Michael Jordan. Now you have little Manu watching big Manu. There's a difference in identity."

Big Manu?

For a few weeks, as big as Man U.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Can you believe we still only get like 1 or 2 games a week during the regular season over here!!? no matter what you pay! Incredible!

[danyel]

Can you believe that if the Spurs wouldnt have made it to the finals we most probably wouldnt have gotten to see those games on TV at all?

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Yup

[TDMVPDPOY]

NBa = lame how it does its business, sellin its rights to argentina for onlly 2000 bucks only and they wanted millions from australia to have the rights to view the games eerrrr....

[MaNuMaNiAc]

NBa = lame how it does its business, sellin its rights to argentina for onlly 2000 bucks only and they wanted millions from australia to have the rights to view the games eerrrr....
hey genius, those rights you're talking about were from the 1970's. Right now Argentina couldn't get broadcasting rights to the NBA even if we begged for them. Chill why don't you!

[spurschick]

Can you believe we still only get like 1 or 2 games a week during the regular season over here!!? no matter what you pay! Incredible!

I'm curious, what is the situation there? Cable? Satellite?

[MI21]

Can you believe you get no coverage on free to air television in Australia and if you wanted to pay about $1000AUS a year you can see 13 Spurs games on TV and most of the WCF and Finals. Bargain.

Thank god for the lovely folks who upload games onto the Internet :lol

[Summers]

The whole world is rooting for the Spurs.

No pressure, guys. :lol

[B.AlMighty]

I'm getting so many emails about the Spurs it's ridiculous.

[Summers]

I'm getting so many emails about the Spurs it's ridiculous.

It took me a few seconds to get it. :lol

[emveepee]

how about TV rights to Slovenia?

[1Parker1]

I'm getting so many emails about the Spurs it's ridiculous.


Did you answer mine yet?? :lol

[slayermin]

Can you believe you get no coverage on free to air television in Australia and if you wanted to pay about $1000AUS a year you can see 13 Spurs games on TV and most of the WCF and Finals. Bargain.

Thank god for the lovely folks who upload games onto the Internet

For US fans, I think most pay about $800.00 a year if we want to watch most of the games. It does suck that you guys only get 13 regular season games. The only game I missed this season was the SA@DET game because ABC did their crappy regional coverage.

[polandprzem]

HEY PEOPLE FROM ARGENTINA - WHO IS THE MOST POPULAR SPORTSMEN IN YOUR COUNTRY
(I need serious anwers - not your opinions)

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Here's something else for the Manu lovefest:

His jersey is the highest selling Spurs jersey.

[orhe]

man i feel lucky for the NBA coverage i get :)
we pay like 10 bucks a month for cable and viola we get an NBA game every day sometimes even two or three games :)

i'm hoping other countries work out some kind of deal.

well the Philippines is a basketball crazy country i guess it's only natural

[exstatic]

Here's something else for the Manu lovefest:

His jersey is the highest selling Spurs jersey.

The manager at the SBC store needs to be fired, then. They don't have his AS jersey in stock.

[nacho estrada]

true dat^^^ I couldnt even find a kid's devin brown jersey there.

[boutons]

"For US fans, I think most pay about $800.00 a year"

NBA League Pass is US$170/season at pre-season promo price.

[WalterBenitez]

HEY PEOPLE FROM ARGENTINA - WHO IS THE MOST POPULAR SPORTSMEN IN YOUR COUNTRY
(I need serious anwers - not your opinions)

very easy, now MANU GINOBILI, most ever Diego Maradona (Fubtol, you call it soccer)

[polandprzem]

very easy, now MANU GINOBILI, most ever Diego Maradona (Fubtol, you call it soccer)
Are you sure?
Because I am arguing with somebody on that one.

So all Argetina is looking at Manu like on Maradona back in a days?

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

There's your problem, you're trying to buy them at the SBC Center store.

Try hitting up Academy. Better selection, and $20 cheaper. (although I can't speak to the All-Star jerseys).

[Kori Ellis]

Here's something else for the Manu lovefest:

His jersey is the highest selling Spurs jersey.

Where?

According to the NBA, Tim is 11th in the league and Manu isn't even in the top 25.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Damn, I wish I would have bookmarked that. It was on ESPN's site earlier this week (think Wednesday or Thursday).

They had an article about the NBA's rising playoff stars, it was all about Amare, Wade, and Ginobili.

I'll see if I can find it.

[violentkitten]

poor aggie's just making up shit again

[Kori Ellis]

I'm sure AHF read it somewhere. I'm just wondering where/how they gathered that info. I don't doubt Manu's jersey sales are on the rise.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

poor violentkitten still has his panties in a bunch.

[Marhq]

Are you sure?
Because I am arguing with somebody on that one.

So all Argetina is looking at Manu like on Maradona back in a days?
Not really. In the eyes of the general public Manu won't ever be seen as the new Maradona. As it happens in almost everywhere in the world, soccer is the most popular sport in Argentina and Maradona was by far the best player in the world in his time. So in order to compare the two, basketball would have to be as big as soccer and Manu as great as Jordan, if not more.

He is regarded as one of our best sportsmen ever and Manumania explodes when he wins something (especially with our NT) but then it fades and the media quickly returns to talk mainly of soccer and tennis. :cuss

It's different in the basketball community, in which Manu is obviously loved by diehard fans and many kids are seeing him as model to follow.

[kolko]

http://www.nba.com/news/merchandise_attendance_050601.html


Ginobili is currently the top selling San Antonio jersey with the Spurs outpacing sales versus the 2003 Playoffs, the last time they played this deep into the postseason.

[Kori Ellis]

Thanks. They are talking about sales just during the playoffs.

I was wondering what the parameters were -- you answered by question.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Are you sure?
Because I am arguing with somebody on that one.

So all Argetina is looking at Manu like on Maradona back in a days?
Lets not get carried away my friend! Over here, Maradona is... how should I put it... a SPORTS GOD! Manu has still a LONG LONG LONG way to go for him to be what Maradona is to us. Don't get me wrong, the accomplishments are somewhat similar, its just that Argentina lives and dies by soccer, and every other sport is a distant second. Lets not forget, El Diego practically singlehandedly won the 1986 World Cup, Manu has yet to win an NBA Championship while not being under the shadow of Duncan and Robinson. Don't get me wrong, I'm definately sure Manu ranks right up there among Maradona, Fangio, Monson... its just that he probably is not in the right sport.

[Manu'sMagicalLeftHand]

HEY PEOPLE FROM ARGENTINA - WHO IS THE MOST POPULAR SPORTSMEN IN YOUR COUNTRY
(I need serious anwers - not your opinions)


Not really. In the eyes of the general public Manu won't ever be seen as the new Maradona. As it happens in almost everywhere in the world, soccer is the most popular sport in Argentina and Maradona was by far the best player in the world in his time. So in order to compare the two, basketball would have to be as big as soccer and Manu as great as Jordan, if not more.

He is regarded as one of our best sportsmen ever and Manumania explodes when he wins something (especially with our NT) but then it fades and the media quickly returns to talk mainly of soccer and tennis. :cuss

It's different in the basketball community, in which Manu is obviously loved by diehard fans and many kids are seeing him as model to follow.

What he said. But tennis isn't really popular in Argentina. It creates more interest between sports journalists and the middle class of Buenos Aires, but no one else. Basketball is the reverse, is a sport that doesn't get as much coverage as it should with all the people interested in it.

Manu has already entered history as one of the top Argentinian sportsmen ever, but he'll never get pass Maradona in the public view because football (soccer) is way too much important here. Currently, he is one of the top sportsmen in Argentina, but he is more important between the people than the media. In the media there's a lot of nonsense talking about our tennis players.

[polandprzem]

Well you know. I was talking about now.
I understand who Maradona was for the Argentinians. Hey I am from Europe.

I do not compare them. But you know Maradona is not palying and you have got sombody to be on the top in sorts. (and again I know that Maradona is out of reach)

Adn If you tell me that Gino is the most popular now as a active sportsman than I'll be satisfied. That's all I wanted to hear

[kolko]

Ginobili is the new-age international face, born on another continent, bred in another league, leading another country to a gold medal. He showed up in San Antonio in 2002 with his game already formed, and he helped win a title coming off the bench that season.

What? I thought Argentina was in America. :rolleyes

[Kori Ellis]

Most people consider North America and South America separate continents.

[Sense]

Here's something else for the Manu lovefest:

His jersey is the highest selling Spurs jersey.


Probably in San Antonio and Argentina or something...




BTW... Manu is no Maradona... I doubt he ever will be unless he becomes a Michael Jordan..

[WalterBenitez]

Are you sure?
Because I am arguing with somebody on that one.

So all Argetina is looking at Manu like on Maradona back in a days?

There're many signs that indicate that, for instance Manu appears in many publicity (on streets), also a lot of young people are using Manu's jersey, which is not common because usually people prefer soccer's jersey, but it is frequent to find people wearing Manu's.

NBA's finals will be on America TV, a National TV Channel (free of charge) this kind of initiative are only allowed to events that are profitable and very popular; so once again Manu is the reason.

Finally Media is in love with Manu (LOL) and mostly of the young people follow Manu's games.

To be honest, Manu's doing this a country where soccer is the 1st sport, but for sure bball is the second.

[Kori Ellis]

Probably in San Antonio and Argentina or something...

No, they are talking about jersey sales since the playoffs started. It's explained a few posts up.

[danyel]

Probably in San Antonio and Argentina or something...




BTW... Manu is no Maradona... I doubt he ever will be unless he becomes a Michael Jordan..

Even if he does become Michael Jordan, which is kinda impossible, basketball wont become futbol (soccer)...

[WalterBenitez]

Well you know. I was talking about now.
I understand who Maradona was for the Argentinians. Hey I am from Europe.

I do not compare them. But you know Maradona is not palying and you have got sombody to be on the top in sorts. (and again I know that Maradona is out of reach)

Adn If you tell me that Gino is the most popular now as a active sportsman than I'll be satisfied. That's all I wanted to hear

It wont be correct to compare Maradona's fame with Manu's, at the present times Manu is very famous around the world, but he's not as big as was Maradona, because Maradona was like Jordan for NBA, Maradona also has some kind of "Angel" very emotional, very touching.

Manu's definitely -in my opinion- the best role model ARG has.

[polandprzem]

Damn SO WHO IS THE MOST POPULAR IN YOUR COUNTRY?
Saviola? Or any other football player?
Or is it Manu?

BTW - the argentinan national team is the one Iam cheering for since I remember. (Batistuta was the man)

[kolko]

Damn SO WHO IS THE MOST POPULAR IN YOUR COUNTRY?
Saviola? Or any other football player?
Or is it Manu?

I think there isn't a popular sportsmen here. We have a lot of them. When someone win something, they all talk about him. This month everyone will talk about Manu, because the Spurs are in the finals. But then some tennis player could win some important tournament, and the media will focus on him.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

ok, to answer your question Manu is the most popular at the moment I'd say, but he is still not as popular as Maradona was during his playing days. That good enough for you?

[WalterBenitez]

Damn SO WHO IS THE MOST POPULAR IN YOUR COUNTRY?
Saviola? Or any other football player?
Or is it Manu?

BTW - the argentinan national team is the one Iam cheering for since I remember. (Batistuta was the man)

1. Manu is THE MOST POPULAR (right now, ok)

2. ooops, we lost to Equador 2-0 :depressed , we'll need your supporting this Wednesday we play against Brasil :)

[Manu'sMagicalLeftHand]

Damn SO WHO IS THE MOST POPULAR IN YOUR COUNTRY?
Saviola? Or any other football player?
Or is it Manu?

BTW - the argentinan national team is the one Iam cheering for since I remember. (Batistuta was the man)

Mmm, problem is, since the national team is now more a team than a one man show (like it was in Maradona's time), the popularity is split. Also according from which club youth system each of the stars came out (Crespo, Saviola, Aimar from River, Riquelme, Tevez from Boca) the support is divided.

I believe the ten most popular active sportsmen in this moment are:
1. Emanuel Ginobili
2. Juan Roman Riquelme (soccer, Villareal)
2. Pablo Aimar (soccer, Valencia)
4. Guillermo Coria and Gaston Gaudio (tennis)
6. Carlos Tevez and Javier Saviola (soccer)
8. David Nalbandian (Tennis)
9. The rest of the Basketball Olympic team (Oberto, Scola, Nocioni, etc.)
10. Other sportsmen and soccer players.

[hendrix]

NBA's finals will be on America TV, a National TV Channel (free of charge) this kind of initiative are only allowed to events that are profitable and very popular; so once again Manu is the reason.


America TV is free of charge only to Buenos Aires. It's not like the Telefe network, so for MOST argentinians the NBA finals are not free.
The same happens with a lot of soccer games, so it has nothing to do with basketball tho.

[WalterBenitez]

America TV is free of charge only to Buenos Aires. It's not like the Telefe network, so for MOST argentinians the NBA finals are not free.
The same happens with a lot of soccer games, so it has nothing to do with basketball tho.

ooooooooooops, it means that I won't be able to watch finals thru America TV in Brazil??? damm it

[hendrix]

I believe the ten most popular active sportsmen in this moment are:


It's very a subjective area.
I'm sure your list is pretty close to reality, but unless a national poll is done (?) nobody can tell.

[hendrix]

ooooooooooops, it means that I won't be able to watch finals thru America TV in Brazil??? damm it

Shit! I dont know.... Are you able to watch friday night soccer games?
Due to TV rights from TyC (local sports owner, pretty much), the sport events are not free for Argentina (except Buenos Aires), but i dont know about the deal with international broadcasts. I'll assume that local brazilian rights holder will whistle immediatly if they show the NBA finals.

[Manu'sMagicalLeftHand]

Che, que es cierto...decís que sé vé gratis para todo el país...el que termina en la General Paz... :rolleyes

[Sense]

Che, que es cierto...decís que sé vé gratis para todo el país...el que termina en la General Paz... :rolleyes


Si...normalmente los fanaticos del futbol salen violentos..


hahahahaha, quien no se enojaria si no podieran tener la oportunidad de ver a Manu en las finales.

[hendrix]

Si...normalmente los fanaticos del futbol salen violentos..

hahahahaha, quien no se enojaria si no podieran tener la oportunidad de ver a Manu en las finales.

Si nos ponemos a hablar en criollo, esta gente se va a calentar.. jajaja

[kolko]

I was in Mendoza last week and in the hotel they have America TV :huh

[Manu'sMagicalLeftHand]

I was in Mendoza last week and in the hotel they have America TV :huh

Because America TV it's a cable channel in some parts of the country. In other regions it's a free channel, but the sports broadcasts (Football National team World Cup Qualifiers, All-Star game/NBA Playoffs, Tennis Grand Slams) are not included in the channel.

The only place where America is 100% free and fully broadcasted is (oh, surprise), Buenos Aires.

[Sense]

Si nos ponemos a hablar en criollo, esta gente se va a calentar.. jajaja


Creo que la mayoria son mexicanos...haci que alamejor no..

[smeagol]

Currently, Manu is top three most popular sportsman in Argentina. He is on his way to being part of the select group of most popular Argentine sportsmen ever.

I don't think he will ever reach Maradona status. Actually, I know for a fact he never will. Even though Manu is the better role model by so much it's not humanly possible to measure it, Maradona, at what he did (play soccer) was better than Manu at what he does (play basket). There is no two ways around it.

[Sense]

Currently, Manu is top three most popular sportsman in Argentina. He is on his way to being part of the select group of most popular Argentine sportsmen ever.

I don't think he will ever reach Maradona status. Actually, I know for a fact he never will. Even though Manu is the better role model by so much it's not humanly possible to measure it, Maradona, at what he did (play soccer) was better than Manu at what he does (play basket). There is no two ways around it.


I agree..

[timvp]

http://www.aftonbladet.se/sport/0502/18/SPORT-18s25-maradona-386_368.jpg > http://espndeportes.espn.go.com/2003/photos2004/0815/a_ginobili_vtop.jpg ?

Can someone explain what Maradona did? I'm not a soccer fan but I'm sure there's a good reason why he's so famous.

[1Parker1]

The dude is clearly sexier then Manu Timvp. :) That probably why he's so famous, anyone with eyes can see that. :lol

[Sense]

http://www.aftonbladet.se/sport/0502/18/SPORT-18s25-maradona-386_368.jpg > http://espndeportes.espn.go.com/2003/photos2004/0815/a_ginobili_vtop.jpg ?

Can someone explain what Maradona did? I'm not a soccer fan but I'm sure there's a good reason why he's so famous.

Lol..funny picture....


But Maradona is to argentinian soccer what Jordan is to USA Basketball..


said it before...


I mean that picture can change ppls minds...but I'm sure he's a legend.

[kolko]

Maradona was the best soccer player of the world.
He always had drugs problems, but now he is fully recovered.

Actual picture with his daughter in the Cannes Festival:

http://img90.echo.cx/img90/2715/529622360bx.jpg

[smeagol]

timvp:

That picture of Maradona is from some time ago. He's had an operation similar to the one the girl from the Wilson Phillips had, and has lost more than 30 pounds since then.

Maradona was the best player of the 70s, 80s and part of the 90s. IMO, he is the best soccer player that ever played the game (I have never seen Pele play, due to my age).

I have never seen the things Maradona did in a soccer field, done by any contemporary player. Not Beckam, not Zidane, not Ronaldo. Those guys are good, no question about it. But Maradona was one of a kind.

In the late 80s, Maradona was as close as being a God on Earth as you could possibly find. The guy was the most well-know person in the World. More well-know than Reagan, Gorbachov and even the Pope JP II.

In the late 90s, I travelled with my wife through several South East Asian countries (Vietnam, Cambodia, Indonesia, Thailand, etc). Everywhere we went, when people asked us where we were from, and we said Arentina, they would immidiately answer, "Argentina? . . . Ahhh, . . . Maradona!". And I have heard this story from many people who travelled the remote countries of Africa and the Middle East.

Simply put, Maradona is (i guess, together with Pele) the best soccer player that ever stepped on a soccer field. For Manu to be as great as Maradona was, he would have to be as good as MJ.

[Sense]

timvp:

That picture of Maradona is from some time ago. He's had an operation similar to the one the girl from the Wilson Phillips had, and has lost more than 30 pounds since then.

Maradona was the best player of the 70s, 80s and part of the 90s. IMO, he is the best soccer player that ever played the game (I have never seen Pele play, due to my age).

I have never seen the things Maradona did in a soccer field, done by any contemporary player. Not Beckam, not Zidane, not Ronaldo. Those guys are good, no question about it. But Maradona was one of a kind.

In the late 80s, Maradona was as close as being a God on Earth as you could possibly find. The guy was the most well-know person in the World. More well-know than Reagan, Gorbachov and even the Pope JP II.

In the late 90s, I travelled with my wife through several South East Asian countries (Vietnam, Cambodia, Indonesia, Thailand, etc). Everywhere we went, when people asked us where we were from, and we said Arentina, they would immidiately answer, "Argentina? . . . Ahhh, . . . Maradona!". And I have heard this story from many people who travelled the remote countries of Africa and the Middle East.

Simply put, Maradona is (i guess, together with Pele) the best soccer player that ever stepped on a soccer field. For Manu to be as great as Maradona was, he would have to be as good as MJ.


I'd definately put him in the top 5...but it could be an argument when it comes to the best.

I don't want to mention any names..but we have had some pretty famous soccer players in Mexico...

[WalterBenitez]

Can someone explain what Maradona did? I'm not a soccer fan but I'm sure there's a good reason why he's so famous.

Well man, you are challenging my english, this is my answer

In few words, he was the most skilled ever; his outstanding game is also compared with Pelé (A Brazilian player).

Maradona not only played outstandingly, in his prime time was fantastic, he could do whatever you could imagine with a ball; the most beautiful goal ever made was did by him, in 1986 FIFA World Cup, Maradona playing for Argentina National Soccer’s Team, dribbled thru 6 english players running 50 yards or so, nobody else touched the ball, and believe me, for those who love soccer only could do a thing ... scream and cry, because was unique.

While Maradona was playing he hasn’t star treatment (he was broken by a kick, many injures) but he played thru them, in Italy he carried a not famous team to the heaven, reaching many championships.

Besides his skills, he also played with heart, was a leader, and ... rebel, in many ways an icon; for being extremely famous he suffered a lot pressure since he was teenager, some biographer told Maradona was pushed to drugs, a problem he had to carried all his carrier, Maradona was suspended a couple of times in Italy and FIFA World Cup in 1994.

Despite of his problem lately he’s been improving his health. With National Team, Maradona won a FIFA World Cup in 1986, Finalist in FIFA WC 1990; a poll made thru the net by FIFA, that Maradona was the best soccer player ever touched a ball.

[smeagol]

I'd definately put him in the top 5...but it could be an argument when it comes to the best.
Maradona is light years from any star of the 70s, 80s, 90s and this century. I have seen them all: Beckenbahuer, Rummenige, Platini, Paolo Rossi, Zico, Ruud Gullit, Van Basten, Ronaldo, Zidane, Beckam, Ronaldinho, etc, etc, etc.

No one can be compared to Diego.

As I said before, the controversy is between Maradona and Pele. No one else can fit in their shoes.


I don't want to mention any names..but we have had some pretty famous soccer players in Mexico...
Hugo Sanchez was a good player.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

I'd definately put him in the top 5...but it could be an argument when it comes to the best.

I don't want to mention any names..but we have had some pretty famous soccer players in Mexico...I know you're not comparing any Mexican player with either Pele or Maradona! LOL I mean, there have been some good players coming from Mexico, but none even remotely comes close to being in the same vecinity of Pele and Maradona, its just the way it is. FIFA declared them both the best soccer players of the century.

[Manu'sMagicalLeftHand]

Can someone explain what Maradona did? I'm not a soccer fan but I'm sure there's a good reason why he's so famous.

Since in the U.S. the terminology and iconography of football(soccer) is not so well-known as in the rest of the world, I'll try to build a parallel with basketball.

Maradona was at his time, the most dominant and talented player in the sport. He first came out as a very promising player out of Argentina, and with the years, he developed into the best in the world. He did things inside a football pitch which I never seen someone else do again. And the harder and more important the stage was, his game seemed to grow even better.

In 1986, he almost won the World Cup on his own, a performance that proably could never again be repeated. He scored the best goal in the history of the World Cup, and one of the best in the history of soccer against England in 1986. Only four years after the Malvinas (Falklands) War, which boosted the emotional impact. In that same match, he also scored a very controversial goal, sending the ball into the back of the net with his hand, which should have been disallowed by the ref. The English complained about this, and to add further insult, after the match he nicknamed the goal: "It wasn't the hand of Diego, it was the Hand of God".

The English went crazy on this and have forever hated him since that moment, making him even more popular in Argentina. Probably with the hand of God, he referred to a kind of payback for the Argentines who died in the war, but to the English the phrase had a different context. That a catholic country claim to have God helping them cheat against the English, was very frustrating and insulting.

His best achievements took place in the first era where soccer became a worldwide TV product, the 80's, which helped to create him a recognized image almost everywhere. The 80's also were the era of the last period of evolution in soccer, almost in every aspect, the game evolved a lot from the 1900's to the 1970's, but between the 80's and present day not much has changed. So that makes all the current players lose when compared to him, they can't say "it was a different time", like it actually was when Pele played (late 50's early 70's).

In club soccer, he took a small team from Southern Italy, Napoli (Naples), which never had won silverware in their whole history into being one of the best of the World. When Maradona left the club, they instantly went back to their dark past. In that time the Italian League was without a doubt the best league in the World. Nowadays there are at least three different countries who can claim to have the best league (England, Spain, Italy).

He is also very respected among footballers (soccer players) all over the world, because he have always stand in their side helping them for whatever their needs. e.g. Pelé, is always seen in pictures with FIFA executives (something like being taken pic with David Stern), while Maradona always hated the FIFA execs.

His career didn't have the best possible end and he had drug problems, wrong friends (Fidel Castro), but now he seems to be getting his life back on tracks after rehab, taking care more about his family.

[Phenomanul]

I can't believe no one mentioned Alfredo DiStéfano....

[Manu'sMagicalLeftHand]

I can't believe no one mentioned Alfredo DiStéfano....

Probably because none of us have seen him play. The footage about Di Stefano's time and other greats of that era (Fontaine, Kopa, Puskas, Garrincha) is almost non-existant, and the few images have a very poor quality. Even worse when referring to pre-WWII soccer.

[EasilyAmused]

In 1986, he almost won the World Cup on his own, a performance that proably could never again be repeated. He scored the best goal in the history of the World Cup, and one of the best in the history of soccer against England in 1986. Only four years after the Malvinas (Falklands) War, which boosted the emotional impact. In that same match, he also scored a very controversial goal, sending the ball into the back of the net with his hand, which should have been disallowed by the ref. The English complained about this, and to add further insult, after the match he nicknamed the goal: "It wasn't the hand of Diego, it was the Hand of God".
The English went crazy on this and have forever hated him since that moment, making him even more popular in Argentina. Probably with the hand of God, he referred to a kind of payback for the Argentines who died in the war, but to the English the phrase had a different context. That a catholic country claim to have God helping them cheat against the English, was very frustrating and insulting.





Sweet memories from Copa Mundial 1986 - Mexico! Maradona has been one of my favorite soccer Players and that final game was beautiful! I didn't know all the other "drama" concerning the quote "hand of God" thanks for the info!

I really hope that he has fully recovered.

[MiNuS]

Soda Stereo,Enanitos,Miguel Mateos.

Y MANU

Gracias Argentina!!!!

Desde Guadalajara Mx

[Sense]

Hugo Sanchez was a good player.



First to come off my mind...wow u read minds.

[Sense]

I know you're not comparing any Mexican player with either Pele or Maradona! LOL I mean, there have been some good players coming from Mexico, but none even remotely comes close to being in the same vecinity of Pele and Maradona, its just the way it is. FIFA declared them both the best soccer players of the century.


Just saying give the men some props.... If you think soccer is the argentinian sport....


Well futbol in mexico is a religion...
And the stadium is a church...

I've met numerous people who tell me about the mexican league...people from greece...argentina,england..


after that im surprised you wouldnt know about it.

[violentkitten]

sports dont make a country. ginobili's in the league because of his game not because of anything else.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Just saying give the men some props.... If you think soccer is the argentinian sport....


Well futbol in mexico is a religion...
And the stadium is a church...

I've met numerous people who tell me about the mexican league...people from greece...argentina,england..


after that im surprised you wouldnt know about it.
I wouldn't know about what?

[DesiSpur_21]

Will Manu ever hit Maradona's level? No chance. The dude was in a different league altogether by himself in terms of skills and competing. I am not from a soccer-crazy nation (except for world cup and EPL), but we all loved Maradona. Even now football means Maradona to us here in India. That much popular the guy is.

[Manu'sMagicalLeftHand]

Just saying give the men some props.... If you think soccer is the argentinian sport....


Well futbol in mexico is a religion...
And the stadium is a church...

I've met numerous people who tell me about the mexican league...people from greece...argentina,england..


after that im surprised you wouldnt know about it.

Oh, please don't bring the Mex vs. Arg. argument here.

Besides Hugo Sanchez, few or none Mexican players who were active before the 1990's are known to the rest of the world.

The reasons?

1. Mexico didn't have an financially strong league, the quality of football was below average. The national team was a bit better, but still it wasn't what it is today (a top 25 team in the world)

2. Mexican clubs and National Team didn't get involved with South America in other competition that the World Cup. The Mexican players names have become known to South Americans since the 1990's, when the Mexican teams were invited to the Libertadores and Copa America.



Well futbol in mexico is a religion...
And the stadium is a church...

Do you know where that phrase was created? :rolleyes

Let me quote an English journalist:
"Argentines not only understand exactly what Liverpool manager Bill Shankly meant when he said football was more important than life or death; they will nod furiously in approval."

[nkdlunch]

Will Manu ever hit Maradona's level? No chance. The dude was in a different league altogether by himself in terms of skills and competing. I am not from a soccer-crazy nation (except for world cup and EPL), but we all loved Maradona. Even now football means Maradona to us here in India. That much popular the guy is.

The only reason he'll never reach his level is because:
Futbol is like 999999999999999999 times more popular than basketball in Argentina Period

Back to the topic, even though I agree that most latin america will be w/the spurs in the finals, not all. Don't forget Miami might still be in it.

[polandprzem]

WOW THIS THREAD WENT IN INTRESTING DIRECTION.

OH - AND THANK YOU ARGENTINIAN PEOPLE.

btw - do you know some players from Poland? I mean are they mentioned between all those names from the soccer greats? (from past)

[spur219]

Ya I think Duncan sells more jerseys than Manu's jerseys.

[Manu'sMagicalLeftHand]

WOW THIS THREAD WENT IN INTRESTING DIRECTION.

OH - AND THANK YOU ARGENTINIAN PEOPLE.

btw - do you know some players from Poland? I mean are they mentioned between all those names from the soccer greats? (from past)

Well, I do, but I have Polish blood. My grandfather was born near Kielce, and my grandmother in Katowice. So when I was young I always heard about the Polish players in the 1970's, Boniek, Deyna, Lato, Lubanski, etc. I don't think that they are considered as one of the greatest ever by most Argentinians, but that 1970's team is remebered by those who are interested in football history.

From the current team I only know Dudek, Klos, Kaluzny and Olisadebe.

[mcornelio]

so, i only live in rhode island... im in the same country and i only get like 3 games a season... thank god for NBA TV...

[Phenomanul]

Oh, please don't bring the Mex vs. Arg. argument here.

Besides Hugo Sanchez, few or none Mexican players who were active before the 1990's are known to the rest of the world.

The reasons?

1. Mexico didn't have an financially strong league, the quality of football was below average. The national team was a bit better, but still it wasn't what it is today (a top 25 team in the world)

2. Mexican clubs and National Team didn't get involved with South America in other competition that the World Cup. The Mexican players names have become known to South Americans since the 1990's, when the Mexican teams were invited to the Libertadores and Copa America.



Do you know where that phrase was created? :rolleyes

Let me quote an English journalist:
"Argentines not only understand exactly what Liverpool manager Bill Shankly meant when he said football was more important than life or death; they will nod furiously in approval."

Argentina's place in Fútbol is indisputable; current and historic. You all have attained 2 World Cup titles, countless Copa America Titles, heavy-weight club teams are always globally ranked, and you all have amazing soccer players spread throughout the world (including México).

An Argentina vs. México argument will hands down always favor Argentina; the awards speak for themselves. In fact, in Latin American soccer, for the past 15 years or so, the rankings would place Brazil and Argentina (interchangably at 1 and 2) followed by México at No. 3. But if all history was considered México would drop below Uraguay and Peru and perhaps even Chile.

On the topic of Hugo Sanchez though, I believe if you were to drop him in his prime to México's current National Team, he would be perceived as an even better player than what he was back in his day... Because as good as he was, he never had a "Great" national team to help him carry the load... and so his teams always fell short.

To his credit though, whenever he played on a well rounded team (like Real Madrid), his talent and fútbol I.Q. were made evident to the rest of the world. Exhibit A: 5 scoring titles in the Spanish Liga... 4 of them in consecutive fashion. The dude just had a knack for scoring; from anywhere, with his head, with either foot, via free-kicks, from the corner, and let's not forget, he singlehandedly made an art form of the bicycle kick or the "Chilena" as we like to call it.

Didn't one of Sanchez's Real Madrid teams beat Maradona's Napoli team in what was then a precursor to the Champion's League... Again, with Sanchez taking the tournament's golden boot???

It would be unfair to say that Hugo Sanchez was simply a "good" player... I don't think any other player in Argentina except of course Maradona and DiStéfano were better than him... but that's just my opinion (please no one respond to this part of the post with a list of players you all consider better... I'm not trying to start a debate, I just want to shed some light on Sanchez's unfortunate position in México as a lone gunner during the 80's).

Also, as for the lack of emergence of other Mexican standouts... it boils down to this, the few players that could possibly make a name for themselves in Europe simply don't go because they are paid extremely well in México. Blanco left Spain because they refused to pay his contract... he returned to Mexico for a $3.7 MM salary. Luis Garcia left Spain on the same grounds and returned to México to what was then the highest salary in the country at I believe ~$1.6 MM. Why go to Europe if you are getting paid to stay in the comfort of your own country, home, and with all of your family around? Now, this has not always been the case... but even if somebody wanted to pursue a career outside of Mexican Fútbol... the doors in Europe have not been very kind to them. So many of them simply don't bother. I could assure you México has some of the best Goal-keepers in fútbol... and why do we not export them? Because, Europe has no supposed need for them...

Anyways México had other standouts even before Sanchez... Such as Isidoro Diaz Mejia, or Enrique Borja. My dad once told me about the time when, then champions Germany played against a group of "World Stars". Pelé as confounded as anyone, asked what Borja was doing there.... Borja responded everyone's scorn by scoring two beautiful goals. In a post game interview, Pelé was asked about his new Mexican teammate, and he responded something like, "Now I know why they brought him here... he can score!"

BTW Bill Shankly's quote does not mean that Mexicans don't esteem football with the same regard as Argentinians.... You just made a point to say that that both Mexicans and Argentinians agree.

[WalterBenitez]

I can't believe no one mentioned Alfredo DiStéfano....

oh yes, probably he'll be in my short list, next to Maradona

[Manu'sMagicalLeftHand]

We've moved waaaaaaaaaaaaaAAA.-A-A-A,AAA-Aaaayyyy off topic now, but what the heck.


Didn't one of Sanchez's Real Madrid teams beat Maradona's Napoli team in what was then a precursor to the Champion's League... Again, with Sanchez taking the tournament's golden boot???

Hugo played with Butragueño, Michel, Buyo, Sanchis, and other amazing players in that Real Madrid team, while Maradona had Careca and....um, well, not much else. And Real Madrid has been a powerhouse in football since the 1950's, while Napoli had the Maradona's years and nothing else to be proud in their history, there's no possible comparission between the teams.

It's not that I hate Mexican football, but it has its fair share of trolls going around the net. Many Argentinian football message boards were ruined with troll flooding, and yes, of course there are Argentinians trolls too, but the numbers are by far bigger for the Mexican side.


Anyways México had other standouts even before Sanchez... Such as Isidoro Diaz Mejia, or Enrique Borja. My dad once told me about the time when, then champions Germany played against a group of "World Stars". Pelé as confounded as anyone, asked what Borja was doing there.... Borja responded everyone's scorn by scoring two beautiful goals. In a post game interview, Pelé was asked about his new Mexican teammate, and he responded something like, "Now I know why they brought him here... he can score!"

There are a lot of stories involving Pelé, most of them have reached legendary status. For example, a small Argentinian team, Colon de Santa Fe, beat Pele's Santos in 1964, when they were in their prime. This made people nickname Colon's stadium as the "Cementerio de Los Elefantes" (The Elephants graveyard), since it looked like every big team who visited their stadium collapsed.


BTW Bill Shankly's quote does not mean that Mexicans don't esteem football with the same regard as Argentinians.... You just made a point to say that that both Mexicans and Argentinians agree.

I'm not saying that, it's just impossible to understand what an Argentinian feels for football without being one. You are born just breathing football here. This is both good (success, high standards, knowledge) and bad (violence, overreacting). Football culture here is HUGE. The local dialect of Spanish is full of football metaphors, football is discussed everywhere, no matter how small the match it might be, it gets TV broadcast. Most of the songs that other Latin American fans sing were created by Argentinian fans ('tho they seem to forget this when arguing).

[WalterBenitez]

WOW THIS THREAD WENT IN INTRESTING DIRECTION.

OH - AND THANK YOU ARGENTINIAN PEOPLE.

btw - do you know some players from Poland? I mean are they mentioned between all those names from the soccer greats? (from past)

Yeah, Boniek or Lato (plaz forgive if wrote wrong their names), those two guys were really great, perhaps Boniek was greater than Lato.

The challenge is to agree about who are in the short list, but there's no doubt who are the best two Maradona and Pele (the order you prefer...)

[WalterBenitez]

There are a lot of stories involving Pelé, most of them have reached legendary status. For example, a small Argentinian team, Colon de Santa Fe, beat Pele's Santos in 1964, when they were in their prime. This made people nickname Colon's stadium as the "Cementerio de Los Elefantes" (The Elephants graveyard), since it looked like every big team who visited their stadium collapsed.


Great contribution, I did not know that :spin

[MaNuMaNiAc]

We've moved waaaaaaaaaaaaaAAA.-A-A-A,AAA-Aaaayyyy off topic now, but what the heck.



Hugo played with Butragueño, Michel, Buyo, Sanchis, and other amazing players in that Real Madrid team, while Maradona had Careca and....um, well, not much else. And Real Madrid has been a powerhouse in football since the 1950's, while Napoli had the Maradona's years and nothing else to be proud in their history, there's no possible comparission between the teams.

It's not that I hate Mexican football, but it has its fair share of trolls going around the net. Many Argentinian football message boards were ruined with troll flooding, and yes, of course there are Argentinians trolls too, but the numbers are by far bigger for the Mexican side.



There are a lot of stories involving Pelé, most of them have reached legendary status. For example, a small Argentinian team, Colon de Santa Fe, beat Pele's Santos in 1964, when they were in their prime. This made people nickname Colon's stadium as the "Cementerio de Los Elefantes" (The Elephants graveyard), since it looked like every big team who visited their stadium collapsed.



I'm not saying that, it's just impossible to understand what an Argentinian feels for football without being one. You are born just breathing football here. This is both good (success, high standards, knowledge) and bad (violence, overreacting). Football culture here is HUGE. The local dialect of Spanish is full of football metaphors, football is discussed everywhere, no matter how small the match it might be, it gets TV broadcast. Most of the songs that other Latin American fans sing were created by Argentinian fans ('tho they seem to forget this when arguing).
AMEN!! From now on, if anybody wishes to know about Argentinian sports, just ask our friend here, he knows practically everything and with details. LOL

[hendrix]

I was in Mendoza last week and in the hotel they have America TV :huh

Cable TV (or DirecTV) was included in your hotel fee. Simple as that.
Cable is not free.
America TV is only free-to-air in Buenos Aires. AND even so, most sports events are blacked-out for the rest of the country.

[Phenomanul]

We've moved waaaaaaaaaaaaaAAA.-A-A-A,AAA-Aaaayyyy off topic now, but what the heck.



Hugo played with Butragueño, Michel, Buyo, Sanchis, and other amazing players in that Real Madrid team, while Maradona had Careca and....um, well, not much else. And Real Madrid has been a powerhouse in football since the 1950's, while Napoli had the Maradona's years and nothing else to be proud in their history, there's no possible comparission between the teams.

It's not that I hate Mexican football, but it has its fair share of trolls going around the net. Many Argentinian football message boards were ruined with troll flooding, and yes, of course there are Argentinians trolls too, but the numbers are by far bigger for the Mexican side.



There are a lot of stories involving Pelé, most of them have reached legendary status. For example, a small Argentinian team, Colon de Santa Fe, beat Pele's Santos in 1964, when they were in their prime. This made people nickname Colon's stadium as the "Cementerio de Los Elefantes" (The Elephants graveyard), since it looked like every big team who visited their stadium collapsed.



I'm not saying that, it's just impossible to understand what an Argentinian feels for football without being one. You are born just breathing football here. This is both good (success, high standards, knowledge) and bad (violence, overreacting). Football culture here is HUGE. The local dialect of Spanish is full of football metaphors, football is discussed everywhere, no matter how small the match it might be, it gets TV broadcast. Most of the songs that other Latin American fans sing were created by Argentinian fans ('tho they seem to forget this when arguing).


I would hope you would at least see some credit to my post and not consider it a troll's post (I'm not implying that this is what you thought).

The bolded statement: See... you would agree that a supporting cast is immensely important in a sport like soccer. Sanchez never had one on his national squads... at no fault of his own. I guess I could turn the question around. If Maradonna was on Mexico's '86 squad, would they have won the Cup? Maradonna was unstoppable that year, so the answer would probably be yes. Mexico's actual 4th place finish in that cup without him doesn't hurt their chances that the addition of Maradonna would have taken them over the top. Anyways, what I'm trying to point out, is that that sort of exposure... on the sport's grandest stage would have given the other players positive feedback.... They might have even gone and played in Europe's league's...

Any speculation aside... Mexican fútbol does deserve a bit of credit no??? Didn't Chivas who didn't even make the playoffs in Mexico's league just beat Boca Jrs.... 4-0 in La Copa Libertadores...?? And no, it's not a trolling statement... it happened recently and so I wrote it down as an example.

Didn't that same Boca team narrowly escape losing the finals of the '03 version of the Libertadores cup to Mexico's Cruz Azul Club.... All I'm saying is that our football deserves a little more respect than to be mentioned solely at your heels....

[hendrix]

Can someone explain what Maradona did? I'm not a soccer fan but I'm sure there's a good reason why he's so famous.

Do you want to work as a sports writer?
At least you should read something about the greatest player in soccer history.
OK, granted, US people dont give a damn about soccer, but try to keep informed.

Not only he was the greatest so far (IMHO), but he is still loved all over the world. Ask anywhere you go (Asia, Africa, Europe, Oceania... Mars) and although most people there won't know sh*t about Michael Jordan, Joe Montana or Babe Ruth... you'll get a drink just for naming Diego.

[emveepee]

Comparing Manu to Maradona is out of line. Perhaps Gabriel Batistuta would be a better comparo in terms of popularity

[Phenomanul]

Comparing Manu to Maradona is out of line. Perhaps Gabriel Batistuta would be a better comparo in terms of popularity


Maradonna was one of the World's Flagship Soccer players (of a short list of two: Pelé is the other)

Manu is Argentina's Flagship Basketball player.

[ObiwanGinobili]

man i feel lucky for the NBA coverage i get :)
we pay like 10 bucks a month for cable and viola we get an NBA game every day sometimes even two or three games :)

i'm hoping other countries work out some kind of deal.

well the Philippines is a basketball crazy country i guess it's only natural


wait a min.... $10 bucks a month for cable??? I'm moving to the phillipines damn it!

[polandprzem]

I thing that in the history of football there is a battle between Pele and Maradona which one of them was the best in history of that sport.


Well, I do, but I have Polish blood. My grandfather was born near Kielce, and my grandmother in Katowice. So when I was young I always heard about the Polish players in the 1970's, Boniek, Deyna, Lato, Lubanski, etc. I don't think that they are considered as one of the greatest ever by most Argentinians, but that 1970's team is remebered by those who are interested in football history.

From the current team I only know Dudek, Klos, Kaluzny and Olisadebe.

Klos kaluzy and Olisadebe are pretty much over. (olisadebe was playing in national team about 2 years- all the hallo is over now).
Polish football (in Poland is just katatrophic, because of people in organizations and because of money...blebleble)
The golden times are gone ('70 maybe '80)
If your gradparents were born in KielceThan you must be 25% Polish guy (if my math is correct what's not that obvious) Great to hear that.


Yeah, Boniek or Lato (plaz forgive if wrote wrong their names), those two guys were really great, perhaps Boniek was greater than Lato.
That's correct those two guys were ,and maybe still are (Dudek now) the most popular sportsmen in Poland.
But I do not think they were the best. Many polish players could not go abroad to play in great Europeans leauges and that stinks man. All polish football stinks and realy many talents are wasted....

So realy great to here that even there you still remember the Polish team.

[MB20]

A lot of Polish came to Argentina during WWII.
Not only Polish, but Italian, Spanish, German, etc...also.
This country is 25% European.

[MiNuS]

I have enjoyed reading this thread very much! Nada que ver con Manu.

[Dick Watson]

Soccer is very important, but we like succesful people. And right now, none of the best argentinian soccer players is doing too much. Our soccer icon (Even he´s got a church La Iglesia Maradoniana) is Diego Armando Maradona. But he´s retired since almost five years. Our others sportsmen right now are the tennis players like Gaudio or Coria and , in my opinion, the best sportsman is Manu. A succesful and a winner. But I like BBall since I was a teenager and watching ESPN in english on Cable TV. How much I´ve enjoyed with Magic, Larry and MJ. I remember myself working on my jumps outdoors while it was raining (or snowing) in the Patagonia.

Greetings for everyone.


¡¡Aguante Manu!!

[hendrix]

A lot of Polish came to Argentina during WWII.
Not only Polish, but Italian, Spanish, German, etc...also.
This country is 25% European.

The most important immigration was during 1880-1920 period. Not only big in net quantity but also because of the percentage (of the total population at that time) it represented.
Then during Spanish Civil War and then during and after WW2.
And around 90% (or more) of argentinians have some european ascendence.

[MiNuS]

The most important immigration was during 1880-1920 period. Not only big in net quantity but also because of the percentage (of the total population at that time) it represented.
Then during Spanish Civil War and then during and after WW2.
And around 90% (or more) of argentinians have some european ascendence.

beautiful people. All jokes aside.

[Sense]

Oh, please don't bring the Mex vs. Arg. argument here.

Besides Hugo Sanchez, few or none Mexican players who were active before the 1990's are known to the rest of the world.

The reasons?

1. Mexico didn't have an financially strong league, the quality of football was below average. The national team was a bit better, but still it wasn't what it is today (a top 25 team in the world)

2. Mexican clubs and National Team didn't get involved with South America in other competition that the World Cup. The Mexican players names have become known to South Americans since the 1990's, when the Mexican teams were invited to the Libertadores and Copa America.



Do you know where that phrase was created? :rolleyes

Let me quote an English journalist:
"Argentines not only understand exactly what Liverpool manager Bill Shankly meant when he said football was more important than life or death; they will nod furiously in approval."


first of all im not bringing any mexico vs argentina argument...pay attention to what people post for once...

I don't care whatever an english journalist said..

I give you props for knowing ur soccer..but don't think I don't know shit either...

[Kori Ellis]

Side note to the Argentineans: Sorry, this doesn't have anything to do with soccer :) I wrote another (small) article for Ole'. It should be in tomorrow's paper (or the next day).

[FilSpursFan]

so, i only live in rhode island... im in the same country and i only get like 3 games a season... thank god for NBA TV...

I feel lucky, I'm in a small city in southern Philippines but I was able to watch 8 - 10 live regular season games a week on just $7 a month cable subscription.

:elephant :elephant