Worst HOF member ever?

[monosylab1k]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=6284545

So this guy is a genius for developing an offense that has only succeeded when there's 2+ Hall Of Famers on the team?

[Venti Quattro]

Equal opportunity offense

[KillerMamba]

The guy was a key part of dominant Bulls and Lakers teams. Go do your homework, kid.

[monosylab1k]

Hey! I've got a great strategy on offense! And all you need for it to work is Michael Jordan!

[monosylab1k]

The guy was a key part of dominant Bulls and Lakers teams. Go do your homework, kid.

:lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao

Key parts are Jordan/Pippen and Shaq/Kobe

Tex Winter was a guy who made a shitty offense that Phil stupidly believed in. You could use basically any offensive strategy and Jordan would have found a way to win with it.

[TE]

Mono, any news on the next show?

[DMC]

The players didn't start off as HOFers.

[monosylab1k]

Ask Jim Cleamons and the Mavericks how well the triangle offense works.

Ask any team Kurt Rambis has coached.

[monosylab1k]

:lmao tex winter was "key" part of the Jordan Bulls

:lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao

they aren't called the Tex Winter Bulls for a reason.

[monosylab1k]

The players didn't start off as HOFers.

That's a terrific point. Go ahead and name me every player that DID start off as a Hall Of Famer.

[Kyle Orton]

Well, like it or not, Michael Jordan didn't get over the hump until he started using the triangle. Neither did Shaq and Kobe. The shitty ass 2005-2007 Kobe Lakers didn't make the playoffs till they started using the triangle.

but yeah, the offense itself isn't nearly as impressive as Phil Jackson getting players to buy into it.

[Venti Quattro]

That's a terrific point. Go ahead and name me every player that DID start off as a Hall Of Famer.

:lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao

[Mike Breen]

That's a terrific point. Go ahead and name me every player that DID start off as a Hall Of Famer.

mono, PUTS IT IN!!!!

[Kyle Orton]

One thing I will say about the triangle is that it's successful because it doesn't overuse the most overrated play in basketball (the pick and roll) and it doesn't overuse the most overrated position in basketball (the point guard).

[monosylab1k]

Well, like it or not, Michael Jordan didn't get over the hump until he started using the triangle. Neither did Shaq and Kobe. The shitty ass 2005-2007 Kobe Lakers didn't make the playoffs till they started using the triangle.

The Bulls had already been using the triangle before Jordan got "over the hump". What got Jordan "over the hump" was Scottie Pippen finally developing into a decent second banana. It had nothing to do with the triangle.

And the Lakers posted a better winning percentage with Rudy T than either of the next two seasons with Phil and the triangle. It wasn't until Rudy "retired" i.e. got sick of dealing with Kobe that the team fell apart.

[Agloco]

The players didn't start off as HOFers.


That's a terrific point. Go ahead and name me every player that DID start off as a Hall Of Famer.

He got you here DMC.....

You and that brick wall just got well acquainted.

[Kyle Orton]

It had something to do with Jordan & Kobe buying into an offense that forced them to trust their teammates. I agree Winter shouldn't be in the HOF, but Jackson got them to trust their teammates more than any other coach could. He felt the triangle was the best way to do that, which counts for something, but not a hall of fame birth.

[DMC]

That's a terrific point. Go ahead and name me every player that DID start off as a Hall Of Famer.

I was playing devil's advocate. It could be argued that HOFers are made by great offensive and defensive schemes, not the other way around.

It's more likely, in my opinion, that this scheme was made famous by great players though since, as you pointed out, no one else is winning with it.

I think the Hack-a-Shack has contributed to more wins than the triangle has.

But it's the Hall of Fame, not the Hall of Effectiveness.

[Axe Murderer]

But it's the Hall of Fame, not the Hall of Effectiveness.

That's a good point. When your offense wins 11 championships, you're gonna get in the Fall of Fame regardless of great players or not.

[JoeTait75]

How much did Tex Winter win as a college head coach? I don't think he ever even got to the Final Four at Kansas State, IIRC.

I understand his role in the Bulls dynasty but to be a Hall of Famer you should have more success than he did as the HMFIC.

[Booharv]

He also has a college coaching resume that gets consideration as well. Led Kansas State to the Final Four twice, and has over 450 wins at that level.

[JoeTait75]

He also has a college coaching resume that gets consideration as well. Led Kansas State to the Final Four twice, and has over 450 wins at that level.

I stand corrected. That's a better resume than I thought he had.

[Booharv]

I stand corrected. That's a better resume than I thought he had.

Here's some of his accomplishments at K-State from wikipedia:

• 2 Final Fours (1958, 1964)
• 4 Elite Eights (1958, 1959, 1961,1964)
• 8 Conference Regular Season Championships (1956, 1958-1961, 1963, 1964, 1968)
• 4 Conference Holiday Tournament Championships (1958, 1960, 1961, 1963)
• 4 times ranked in top 6 of final AP and UPI polls (1958, 1959, 1961, 1962)
• Ranked No. 1 in final AP and UPI polls (1959)
• UPI National Coach of the Year (1958)
• Big 7 Coach of the Year (1958)
• 2-time Big 8 Coach of the Year (1959, 1960)

The number 1 AP ranking is from the end of the regular season. He also beat Wilt and Oscar's team in the tourney with lesser players.

[Jose Canseco]

I know he was on all those Bill Russell championship teams and I didn't actually watch him play, but based purely on his career statistics, I have no idea how K.C. Jones is in the HOF as a player. I mean it's mind-boggling.

[Spurminator]

Winter benefited from talent associated with him, just like almost every other basketball Hall of Famer.

[monosylab1k]

Winter benefited from talent associated with him, just like almost every other basketball Hall of Famer.

Yeah but he was never a head coach or player associated with that talent. He was simply "the triangle offense guy" and got in because Jordan/Shaq/Kobe won a bunch of titles they were going to win regardless of the offensive scheme.

[monosylab1k]

Should all of Phil Jackson's assistant coaches be in the Hall too?

[monosylab1k]

Everybody answer honestly - How many titles would Michael Jordan have won if Tex Winter's mother aborted him way back when?

[monosylab1k]

How many titles would a Shaq/Kobe in their prime combo have won?

[monosylab1k]

Let's also get the guy who washed Jordan's shorts through 6 titles in the Hall while we're at it.

[DMC]

Matthew Perry should be a lock.

[Veterinarian]

one star thread, would not read again

[dbreiden83080]

:lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao

Key parts are Jordan/Pippen and Shaq/Kobe

Tex Winter was a guy who made a shitty offense that Phil stupidly believed in. You could use basically any offensive strategy and Jordan would have found a way to win with it.

Win yes

Win titles no....

Jordan's career pre-phil showed that..

[Axe Murderer]

Win titles no....


is that a joke?

[Isitjustme?]

Are his college numbers a big deal? Is 450 wins a lot? In terms of the HOF?

[monosylab1k]

Win yes

Win titles no....

Jordan's career pre-phil showed that..

:lmao

[monosylab1k]

i'm pretty sure you meant Jordan's career pre-tex winter because that would make more sense.

[lefty]

Tex deserves to be in the HOF

[monosylab1k]

Tex deserves to be in the HOF

Let's put all the members of the Alan Parson's Project in there too, since they got played at every Bulls game during Chicago's Tex Winter dynasty.

[Isitjustme?]

He was a very successful college coach, that counts too...

[cherylsteele]

It still puzzles me as to why Artis Gilmore never gets a consideration for the HOF.

[DMC]

It still puzzles me as to why Artis Gilmore never gets a consideration for the HOF.
He didn't play for Tex Winter.

[Axe Murderer]

I have no idea how K.C. Jones is in the HOF as a player. I mean it's mind-boggling.

Holy shit I just looked him up :lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

played only 9 seasons and had whopping career averages of :wow7.4 ppg 3.5 rpg 4.3 apg :wow

[monosylab1k]

Holy shit I just looked him up :lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

played only 9 seasons and had whopping career averages of :wow7.4 ppg 3.5 rpg 4.3 apg :wow

tbh at least he played alongside a legend.

he didn't just say "hey this is a good idea for an offense" and have Bill Russell go "no, fuck that, I'll just do what I want on the court" and then get in the hall of fame for creating a shit offense that nobody else can make work without 2+ Hall Of Famers (with those HOF'ers generally ignoring said offense when a game is on the line).

[Booharv]

I don't get why you are just ignoring his college career.

[monosylab1k]

I don't get why you are just ignoring his college career.

oh shit! 2 Final Four appearances!

Brad Stevens has already tied him, Shaka Smart is already halfway there.

[monosylab1k]

tbh one read of The Jordan Rules tells you how much Michael Jordan actually bought into the triangle offense.

[Isitjustme?]

Looking on Wikipedia there are coaches with similar or worse resumes in the Hall of Fame:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_coaches_in_the_Basketball_Hall_of_Fame

[cherylsteele]

He didn't play for Tex Winter.
I know that, but when people like Rodman get in and Gilmore never evens gets mentioned it just makes the whole thing absurd in a way.

Winter was good, but I don't know if he should be in the HOF.

[Sean Cagney]

The players didn't start off as HOFers.

True but most don't start off as HOF's......

[BRHornet45]

sons just another undeserving white man being inducted into the black man's hall of fame.

take away Jordan, take away Pippen, take away Shaq, take away Kobe ... and THEN let's see just how good these "brilliant" coaches are. how about Phil and Tex go try and run that shit in Minnesota or Charlotte where they won't be handed hall of fame players on a silver platter??? ... lets see how "brilliant" they are then

[lefty]

It still puzzles me as to why Artis Gilmore never gets a consideration for the HOF.
He is in

[cherylsteele]

Just heard that. Nice.

[Koolaid_Man]

That's a terrific point. Go ahead and name me every player that DID start off as a Hall Of Famer.


Hey Fuck Face...Magic came the closest...won a title and Finals MVP in his rookie season...so in a sense he started off as HOF'er...depending on the definition of start...even if he didn't win shit else since it had never been done he would have made the Hall...

[Giuseppe]

He is in

:lol

[Koolaid_Man]

Yeah but he was never a head coach or player associated with that talent. He was simply "the triangle offense guy" and got in because Jordan/Shaq/Kobe won a bunch of titles they were going to win regardless of the offensive scheme.


But the fact is they didn't...they had their chances to prove your bullshit as theory and they failed.....MJ and Shaq in particular actually prove this point...fuckers couldn't win shit until they got with the TRI....

and Kobe was lost without until Phil returned with the goods...:lol

for someone that runs a bullshit ass internet show you're one retarded fuck....

what you should be worried about is that bullshit ass team in Dallas...:lol

[Giuseppe]

I don't do HOF (due to my religion), but, Kool is kicking Mono's ass so high up it'll double as a hump.

Kool Aid Man

[ohmwrecker]

for someone that runs a bullshit ass internet show you're one retarded fuck...

:lol WTF?!

[frodo]

Heat need to try some triangle maybe. triangle O was designed for superb talents particularly so it isn't a common strategy imho. phil has full hands of rings already for that alone he well deserves to be a HOFer, but the triangle strategy is not that much of a "strategy" such as p'n'r... just like the hack-the-shaq strategy imho