Duncan vs Kareem

[Axe Murderer]

in thier primes who wud u take?

[Ashy Larry]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA


Cap easily ...... lol

[namlook]

Kareem and its not close.

[Veterinarian]

5 star thread, would read again

[Axe Murderer]

5 star thread, would read again

thanks bro :toast

[ohmwrecker]

Kareem and its not close.

It's actually closer than Lakerfan would dare to admit, but . . . first instinct is Kareem.

[badfish22]

It's actually closer than Lakerfan would dare to admt

And here we go.

[namlook]

It's actually closer than Lakerfan would dare to admit, but . . . first instinct is Kareem.

No it's not close at all. Kareem is a 6 time League MVP with 6 rings and the greatest scorer in NBA history. Kareem and Jordan is close. Kareem and Tim is not.

[ohmwrecker]

And here we go.

Check for yourself, Nancy.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/duncati01.html

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/abdulka01.html

[badfish22]

Yes, because I was arguing. Thank you so much for the links.

[ohmwrecker]

No it's not close at all. Kareem is a 6 time League MVP with 6 rings and the greatest scorer in NBA history. Kareem and Jordan is close. Kareem and Tim is not.

I already said Kareem was better, you dope.

[ohmwrecker]

Yes, because I was arguing. Thank you so much for the links.

Then how 'bout you shut the fuck up.

[badfish22]

Ahh good to know hes still a gnsf at heart. Just checking.

[ohmwrecker]

Ahh good to know hes still a gnsf at heart. Just checking.

You got nothing but gnsf.



btw, I get that this is a troll job. It's just not as ridiculous a premise as it is intended to be, imo.

[Juggity]

Check for yourself, Nancy.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/duncati01.html

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/abdulka01.html

Jesus christ I didn't know Kareem was in the league until he was 41...The fact that he put up double digit point totals every singe year of his two decade career is pretty goddamn impressive, tbh.

Love me some Timmy, he's one of the best of all time easily, but I think we can say that Kareem is objectively better across the span of his ridiculously long career.

[lefty]

Duncan of course

[jjktkk]

Both are great, great, players. Both are proven post players and defenders. I'd give the edge to Duncan, because of Duncan's ability to shoot from outside. Very slight edge FWIW.

[Greg Oden]

Ahh good to know hes still a gnsf at heart. Just checking.

the guy has fallen for a couple of these joke polls :lol

[Kyle Orton]

It's actually closer than Lakerfan would dare to admit

Not really.

[Riddler]

:lmao At the homers who picked Duncan

[dbreiden83080]

Pretty close..

[Kyle Orton]

Pretty close..

:lmao

[Greg Oden]

Pretty close..

It's not as close as two mma fighter's schlongs get whilst having a tussle in the ring.

[badfish22]

Greg Oden

[dbreiden83080]

No it's not close at all. Kareem is a 6 time League MVP with 6 rings and the greatest scorer in NBA history. Kareem and Jordan is close. Kareem and Tim is not.

Kareem got 6 rings playing on motherfucking stacked ass teams.. What is it with you Faker fans and talking individual greatness with rings only?

Is Steve Kerr a legend?? Tim won 4 playing on far less teams and that's a fact..

[badfish22]

Kareem got 6 rings playing on motherfucking stacked ass teams.. What is it with you Faker fans and talking individual greatness with rings only?

Is Steve Kerr a legend?? Tim won 4 playing on far less teams and that's a fact..

:lmao is this guy serious?

[Greg Oden]

Duncan played in a significantly weaker era. Please keep trying.

[i MAke GOod POlls]

lol at the dumbasses falling for the obvious troll poll

[dbreiden83080]

It's not as close as two mma fighter's schlongs get whilst having a tussle in the ring.

Oh yeah

way to contribute to the debate.. Had Oden retired yet??

[Greg Oden]

There's obviously teams Kareem beat in the Finals worse than the Nets and 07 Cavaliers.

[Greg Oden]

Oh yeah

way to contribute to the debate.. Had Oden retired yet??

Had Oden retired yet? I'll try to get back to you once you start making sense.


lol sword fighting

[JJ Hickson]

Kareem got 6 rings playing on motherfucking stacked ass teams.. What is it with you Faker fans and talking individual greatness with rings only?

Is Steve Kerr a legend?? Tim won 4 playing on far less teams and that's a fact..

Solid comparison. because Steve Kerr and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar obviously played equal roles on their respective teams.

[dbreiden83080]

Duncan played in a significantly weaker era. Please keep trying.

:lol

It's harder to win today with so many more teams and playoff games dip-shit..

How the hell do you think Russell got so many? 5 of the 12 best guys in the league were on his team??

[ohmwrecker]

the guy has fallen for a couple of these joke polls :lol

lol fallen

lol "you got trolled" schtick

Greg Oden is the Guiseppe of Mavfandom.

[Kyle Orton]

Kareem got 6 rings playing on motherfucking stacked ass teams.

I'd be surprised if you were able to name more than 1 other player in the 71 Milwaukee Bucks.

Quick, go check basketball reference and pretend you know that team like the back of your hand.

[Greg Oden]

:lol

It's harder to win today with so many more teams and playoff games dip-shit..

How the hell do you think Russell got so many? 5 of the 12 best guys in the league were on his team??

:lol Duncan's era

[Greg Oden]

lol fallen

lol "you got trolled" schtick

Greg Oden is the Guiseppe of Mavfandom.

It's no surprise you still keep posting.

Cue your lame shtick of :cry I'm really angry :cry

[dbreiden83080]

This place seriously used to be a good place to talk basketball

sad so many dumb ass trolls ruined this section of the forum..

[JJ Hickson]

dbreiden83080 (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=1137)
Go Spurs Go!! <--------------------LOL

[Greg Oden]

This place seriously used to be a good place to talk basketball

sad so many dumb ass trolls ruined this section of the forum..

Yeah, there was a time when there weren't dumbasses saying a Duncan/Kareem debate is pretty close.

[dbreiden83080]

It's no surprise you still keep posting.

Cue your lame shtick of :cry I'm really angry :cry

What the fuck do you ever contribute? All i see from you is bashing and shit-talking rarely ever staying on point..

[Kyle Orton]

Yeah Duncan really won his rings against top teams. Having the 2007 Phoenix Suns as your stiffest competition is so much harder than having the 80s Boston Celtics to go through in the finals every year.

[Greg Oden]

I don't like it when people disagree with my retarded opinion.

[Kyle Orton]

dbreiden83080 (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=1137)
Go Spurs Go!! <--------------------LOL


:lmao:lmao:lmao

[dbreiden83080]

Yeah, there was a time when there weren't dumbasses saying a Duncan/Kareem debate is pretty close.

Kareem had the better career

The issue was in his prime..

[JJ Hickson]

This place seriously used to be a good place to talk basketball

sad so many dumb ass trolls ruined this section of the forum..


Yes this place being a GNSF circle jerk with morons saying Duncan is better than Kareem and going unchallenged for it would be a GREAT place to talk basketball.

[dbreiden83080]

Yeah Duncan really won his rings against top teams. Having the 2007 Phoenix Suns as your stiffest competition is so much harder than having the 80s Boston Celtics to go through in the finals every year.

Shit do you think that is easier when Magic Johnson is on your team?

[ohmwrecker]

I didn't fall for anything though. I said Kareem was better. I also pointed out that, for a thread that was intended to be a "joke poll" the proposal is not so preposterous and the stats support that assertion, Opie.

[badfish22]

This place seriously used to be a good place to talk basketball

sad so many dumb ass trolls ruined this section of the forum..

Actually, you are just running from the counter-arguments to your stupid Duncan/Kareem statement.

But ok.

[Greg Oden]

Yes this place being a GNSF circle jerk with morons saying Duncan is better than Kareem and going unchallenged for it would be a GREAT place to talk basketball.


What the fuck do you ever contribute? All i see from you is bashing and shit-talking rarely ever staying on point..

[Giuseppe]

Kareem: 6

Duncan: 4

[Axe Murderer]

Kareem had the better career

The issue was in his prime..

:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

are you retarded brah? that makes the argument even more one sided if we're arguing primes. crofl let me know when Duncan averages 35 ppg and 16.5 rpg in a season

[ohmwrecker]

Actually, you are just running from the counter-arguments to your stupid Duncan/Kareem statement.

But ok.

:lol what counter-arguments?

[Kyle Orton]

Shit do you think that is easier when Magic Johnson is on your team?

That doesn't answer my question about the '71 Bucks.

And no, Magic Johnson wouldn't have been necessary against the 2003 Nets or 2007 Cavaliers.

[Greg Oden]

Kareem: 6

Duncan: 4

That's it, and that's all.

[Axe Murderer]

lol arguing primes as if that will help Duncan's credentials

[dbreiden83080]

That's it, and that's all.

Oh yeah great point..

[lefty]

WGAF



Hakeem shits on both of them

http://www.gifsoup.com/view4/2278912/lol-lakers-o.gif

[Kyle Orton]

Also, if Manu Ginobili's minor league career is why Spurfan thinks he's a HOFer, then Kareem being the consensus GOAT of college basketball is relevant to this argument.

[Greg Oden]

Oh yeah great point..

Their primes are pretty close.

[Giuseppe]

Kareem: 6

Hakeem: 2

[dbreiden83080]

lol arguing primes as if that will help Duncan's credentials

Debating stats in different era's is retarded.. Wilt put up 50 a game in an era where he was a man amongst boys.. Kobe does his thing in an era where the defensive rules are completely different than when Jordan played..

[Axe Murderer]

Wilt put up 50 a game in an era where he was a man amongst boys.

And because he was really really really good

[dbreiden83080]

Their primes are pretty close.

If we are talking about the 3 or 4 year window in which Duncan was the best player in the NBA it's a discussion.. 2003 Duncan.. Didn't say Duncan wins or is better.. I think a lot of people seriously forget how great Duncan was back then..

[dbreiden83080]

And because he was really really really good

Gee ya think.. :rolleyes

[JJ Hickson]

What the fuck do you ever contribute? All i see from you is bashing and shit-talking rarely ever staying on point..


srsly?

[LkrFan]

WGAF



Hakeem shits on both of them

http://www.gifsoup.com/view4/2278912/lol-lakers-o.gif

:lol - Cap was like 67 that year. Try again. :wakeup

[dbreiden83080]

:lol - Cap was like 67 that year. Try again. :wakeup

Hakeem is another guy that gets grossly under-rated to be honest..

[Axe Murderer]

crofl i love how mma fag says :cry you can't compare eras :cry when he acts like a fucking 7'2 center with some of the best posts move ever, wouldn't dominate as much today when the center position is the weakest it's ever been

[dbreiden83080]

crofl i love how mma fag says :cry you can't compare eras :cry when he acts like a fucking 7'2 center with some of the best posts move ever, wouldn't dominate as much today when the center position is the weakest it's ever been

Your saying Wilt puts up 50 a game in 2011...

Kareem dominates any era but it's a whole new point..

[Axe Murderer]

No I'm talking about Kareem dumbass

[LkrFan]

Listen, I know this is a thread to rile up Spurs' fans, but let's be honest: Timmy D can't hold Cap's jockstrap. Cap's game dominated the rough and tumble 70's and 80's - and he would have done the same thing in the 90's and today's game. It's not even close. :toast

[lefty]

:lol - Cap was like 67 that year. Try again. :wakeup
Even if Cap was 22, he would have been bukkaked by Hakeem

Nobody could stop the man

[dbreiden83080]

No I'm talking about Kareem dumbass

I was talking Wilt and Kareem fuck-head...

[LkrFan]

Hakeem is another guy that gets grossly under-rated to be honest..

I hear ya man. Dream was a MF'n beast in his day. I'm talking quadruple double threat like beastly. He would have looked great in P&G. :lol

[Axe Murderer]

I was talking Wilt and Kareem fuck-head...

So you're saying that we can't compare eras. Therefore, you are suggesting that Kareem wouldn't do as well today.

How on earth would a 7'2 center with the most unstoppable post move of all time, even be slowed down in today's game when the NBA is currently a giant shitfest at center?

[LkrFan]

Even if Cap was 22, he would have been bukkaked by Hakeem

Nobody could stop the man

:lol I'm not gonna disagree with that. He won many battles with Cap. But won the most wars?

Cap: 6 (at least 3 were probably when Dream was in a Houston uni)
Dream: 2 (NONE when Cap was playing)

Just saying. :toast

[dbreiden83080]

So you're saying that we can't compare eras. Therefore, you are suggesting that Kareem wouldn't do as well today.

Wilt doesnt score 50 a game in this era was my point. Too many great athletes in the league with size... With Kareem it depends on the situation with his team and what they need from him. Obviously Kareem could do it all as could Duncan.. This is a prime argument so i am talking Duncan of 2003. Tim was a 23-25 PPG scorer then. Do you doubt that he could have put up 30 a game for the year easily if he wanted to? Duncan was even then an incredibly unselfish player.. Obviously Kareem dominates today. I never said Duncan wins this debate..

[Kyle Orton]

I was talking Wilt and Kareem fuck-head...

You didn't start talking about Wilt till it was pointed out how retarded it is to use the era argument with Kareem, someone famous for creating a shot no one could defend.

[Kyle Orton]

Wilt doesnt score 50 a game in this era was my point.

Why exactly was that brought up in a Duncan vs. Kareem argument?

[Kyle Orton]

I never said Duncan wins this debate..

You answered Duncan in the poll. lol backpedaling.

[dbreiden83080]

You answered Duncan in the poll. lol backpedaling.

I'm a spurs fan. Gotta give him a chance in the 3rd grade poll...

But do i think he is better

no...

[dbreiden83080]

Why exactly was that brought up in a Duncan vs. Kareem argument?

Go back and read it...l

[Kyle Orton]

I did read it. You said you can't compare Kareem's stats to Duncan's stats due to different eras and the fact Wilt wouldn't have been able to average 50 a game in this era. What does Wilt not being able to average 50 a game in this era have to do with Kareem's stats?

[Axe Murderer]

. Do you doubt that he could have put up 30 a game for the year easily if he wanted to? Duncan was even then an incredibly unselfish player.

Well why didn't he?

Kareem scored 35 ppg his best season, so by your logic i could say that he could have put up 40 if he wanted to

[Kyle Orton]

Well why didn't he?

Kareem scored 35 ppg his best season, so by your logic i could say that he could have put up 40 if he wanted to

Wrong. Duncan = class. Kareem is a poopyhead Laker. Duncan was classy enough to not score as many points in his prime as he could have so he could let Kareem win this debate.

[Muser]

Kareem is the best C of all time and a top 2 player of all time, how this is a debate is shocking.

[Riddler]

Hakeem vs Kareem is a much closer debate than Duncan vs Kareem. That's it, and that's all

[lefty]

:lol I'm not gonna disagree with that. He won many battles with Cap. But won the most wars?

Cap: 6 (at least 3 were probably when Dream was in a Houston uni)
Dream: 2 (NONE when Cap was playing)

Just saying. :toast
I would have liked to see how many titles Cap would have won with Kenny Smith, Maxwell, Hererra, etc....:lol

:toast

[JJ Hickson]

I would have liked to see how many titles Cap would have won with Kenny Smith, Maxwell, Hererra, etc....:lol

:toast



I would have liked to see how many titles Hakeem would have won without Jordan being retired. But that is no knock against Hakeem, he is far better than Duncan.

[lefty]

I would have liked to see how many titles Hakeem would have won without Jordan being retired. But that is no knock against Hakeem, he is far better than Duncan.
If the Rockets didnt get assfucked by the refs in game 7 vs Seattle, they would have beaten the Bulls in 93.

The Rockets totally destroyed Jordan & co in both of their meetings in 92-93.

Hakeem totally dominated Cartwright, Horry was one of the few players who matched up very well with Pippen back then, and for some reason Maxwell always played well vs Jordan

So, I think they could have won in 94 despite Jordan.


And in 95, Jordan played, but he failed lol

[namlook]

No it's not close at all. Kareem is a 6 time League MVP with 6 rings and the greatest scorer in NBA history. Kareem and Jordan is close. Kareem and Tim is not.


Kareem got 6 rings playing on motherfucking stacked ass teams.. What is it with you Faker fans and talking individual greatness with rings only?

Is Steve Kerr a legend??....


Arguments with rings only? You've got to be shitting me. Kareem is a SIX TIME league MVP and you bring up Steve Kerr? WTF. How many players in NBA history were a league MVP six times?

Here's a clue.

Most League MVP Awards:
1. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar - (6) (http://www.nba.com/history/players/abduljabbar_summary.html)
2. Michael Jordan - (5)
(http://www.nba.com/history/players/jordan_summary.html)

[dbreiden83080]

You've got to be shitting me. Kareem is a SIX TIME league MVP and you bring up Steve Kerr? WTF. How many players in NBA history were a league MVP six times?

Here's a clue.

Most League MVP Awards:
1. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar - (6) (http://www.nba.com/history/players/abduljabbar_summary.html)
2. Michael Jordan - (5)
(http://www.nba.com/history/players/jordan_summary.html)

Way to misinterpret the shit outta what i said.. Fuckin faker fans jock Kobe around like he's the baddest motherfucker ever because he has 5 rings maybe 6 soon. They think that puts him with Jordan.. No he is nowhere near Jordan since Shaq was the man on 3 of those squads. Faker fans just associate rings with greatness and ignore everything else.. Duncan won 4 in a different era under different circumstances. He can hang with anyone in history. Shaq and Hakeem can hang with Kareem as well. I never said Duncan was better than Kareem..

[namlook]

Kareem had the better career

The issue was in his prime..

Um, ok.

34.8 PP, 16.6 RPG, 4.6 APG, 57.4% FG

That is dominant.

[resistanze]

Kareem is the best C of all time and a top 2 player of all time, how this is a debate is shocking.

Muser, with the goods. And Duncan is perhaps my favorite player of all-time.

[LkrFan]

I would have liked to see how many titles Cap would have won with Kenny Smith, Maxwell, Hererra, etc....:lol

:toast

Way to :downspin: that shiiiittt! :lol

:toast

[ezau]

Tim easily. Fuck Kareem and his sot-ass sky hook. That's the lamest shot I've seen in my life.

[namlook]

Tim easily. Fuck Kareem and his sot-ass sky hook. That's the lamest shot I've seen in my life.

So lame that according to Wilt himself Kareem is the only player he ever asked for double team help with because he couldn't guard him.

[ElNono]

9/10... solid troll job :tu

[ezau]

So lame that according to Wilt himself Kareem is the only player he ever asked for double team help with because he couldn't guard him.

Wilt would retire after playing one game against Duncan.

LOL at getting blocked by a 6'9, mechanical Bill Russell:lol:lol

[ezau]

While we're at it, Kobe's fadeaway shot is the ugliest jump shot in the history of basketball. Can't even copy MJ's fadeaway correctly LOL

[Giuseppe]

"correctly" enough to render:::

Kobe: 5

Duncan: 4

[The Franchise]

Duncan is great, but it's not even a difficult choice. No sane GM would pick him over Kareem. Not even if they knew how his career would turn out.

[djohn2oo8]

Duncan is great, but it's not even a difficult choice. No sane GM would pick him over Kareem. Not even if they knew how his career would turn out.

What do you think now about our 2nd seeded squad bro?

[The Franchise]

What do you think now about our 2nd seeded squad bro?

What would you like me to think?

[djohn2oo8]

What would you like me to think?

Nothing, just wondering what made you think 2nd seed. I already know why DaDakota thought that, he's just a complete fucktard

[Kyle Orton]

:lmao:lmao:lmao djohn going HAM

[Axe Murderer]

lol this thread 5 pages long

[TDfan2007]

Timmy was the more versatile player offensively and defensively, but Kareem still comes out on top. He was too good for too long while winning championships. He had the most unstoppable move in basketball, blocked shots like crazy, and was an excellent passer. In short, Kareem was probably the best big man of all time so it's a no-brainer that he gets the nod over Timmy.

Anyone talking about Wilt in an attempt to belittle what he did should note that Wilt would hold his own against Kareem even in his later years while Kareem was fresh. Hell he could actually block Kareem's skyhook. Wilt was amazing and would have averaged at LEAST prime Shaq numbers if he played in Tim/Shaq's era.

IMO the list of great bigs goes like this:

1. Kareem
2. Wilt
3. Hakeem/Duncan
4. Russel
5. Shaq


Btw, I've noticed a lot of guys using purely stats or simply number of championships won to compare players. The jackassery of this method is pretty blatant. Tim could have averaged 27-30 ppg in his prime if he wanted. He was simply too unselfish to. It's precisely that unselfishness that allowed guys like Tony and Manu to flourish in the Spurs' system. Also, simple stats like ppg, etc. don't account for the pace of the game. I know that to a lot of Laker fans the idea that ppg is not the indication of who is the best seems a bit foreign, but just try it.

Anyway, long story short Kareem was better. He was a more effective post player and a more effective defender than Tim all while winning more championships, more MVPs, and putting up AMAZING FG% numbers throughout his career.

[Cry Havoc]

Timmy was the more versatile player offensively and defensively, but Kareem still comes out on top. He was too good for too long while winning championships. He had the most unstoppable move in basketball, blocked shots like crazy, and was an excellent passer. In short, Kareem was probably the best big man of all time so it's a no-brainer that he gets the nod over Timmy.

Anyone talking about Wilt in an attempt to belittle what he did should note that Wilt would hold his own against Kareem even in his later years while Kareem was fresh. Hell he could actually block Kareem's skyhook. Wilt was amazing and would have averaged at LEAST prime Shaq numbers if he played in Tim/Shaq's era.

IMO the list of great bigs goes like this:

1. Kareem
2. Wilt
3. Hakeem/Duncan
4. Russel
5. Shaq


Btw, I've noticed a lot of guys using purely stats or simply number of championships won to compare players. The jackassery of this method is pretty blatant. Tim could have averaged 27-30 ppg in his prime if he wanted. He was simply too unselfish to. It's precisely that unselfishness that allowed guys like Tony and Manu to flourish in the Spurs' system. Also, simple stats like ppg, etc. don't account for the pace of the game. I know that to a lot of Laker fans the idea that ppg is not the indication of who is the best seems a bit foreign, but just try it.

Anyway, long story short Kareem was better. He was a more effective post player and a more effective defender than Tim all while winning more championships, more MVPs, and putting up AMAZING FG% numbers throughout his career.

:tu

[Kyle Orton]

Yes Kareem is the best big man of all time and IMO in his own tier as the 2nd best player of all time. It's not a slam on Duncan to say he's not as good as Kareem. If we're ranking centers:

1. Kareem
2. Shaq
3. Hakeem
4. Wilt
5. Moses Malone

Bill Russell is not a top 5 center of all time, maybe not even a top 10. lol glorified Ben Wallace. 3.

[Capt Bringdown]

Nobody's mastered or pretty much even tried to consistently implement Kareem's sky hook. That's an amazing feat - to own a basketball shot.
The damn thing was practically unblockable. Anyone remember Bill Willoughby? Chances are you remember him because he was one of the rare players to ever block Kareem's sky hook.

Kareem was not just a one-trick-pony either. He was a force of nature the likes of which we'll never see again. As great as Duncan is, Kareem towers above, it's not even close IMO.

[Axe Murderer]

1. Kareem
2. Shaq
3. Hakeem
4. Wilt
5. Moses Malone


:tu

tbh i was about to post my top 4 centers of all time and that's exactly what my list would look like.

1 Kareem
2 Shaq
3 Hakeem
4 Wilt

If all four of them were to walk into a time machine and play today, that's how I would rank them. They would all easily be the best center in today's game. After that it's a huge dropoff, imho

[Axe Murderer]

It's hard to really include Bill Russell in any ranking. He's just a legend in his own right winning 11 rings. I have a lot of respect for what he did, but watching videos of him, all I really see is a less offensive skilled Odom but a better defensive player

[Sportstudi]

Nobody's mastered or pretty much even tried to consistently implement Kareem's sky hook. That's an amazing feat - to own a basketball shot.
The damn thing was practically unblockable. Anyone remember Bill Willoughby? Chances are you remember him because he was one of the rare players to ever block Kareem's sky hook.

Kareem was not just a one-trick-pony either. He was a force of nature the likes of which we'll never see again. As great as Duncan is, Kareem towers above, it's not even close IMO.

The only people I remember (from old footage and as well mentioned in old articles) who managed to block Kareem's sky hook were Wilt, Hakeem and Manute Bol.

[Koolaid_Man]

Both are great, great, players. Both are proven post players and defenders. I'd give the edge to Duncan, because of Duncan's ability to shoot from outside. Very slight edge FWIW.


Cap would have eaten Timmy's asshole alive....and it would have tasted good too...:lol

[Jose Canseco]

Yea but who eats dead assholes? Really.

[Cry Havoc]

:tu

tbh i was about to post my top 4 centers of all time and that's exactly what my list would look like.

1 Kareem
2 Shaq
3 Hakeem
4 Wilt

If all four of them were to walk into a time machine and play today, that's how I would rank them. They would all easily be the best center in today's game. After that it's a huge dropoff, imho

If Shaq isn't allowed to knock his defenders over (i.e., 12 charges per game), he drops off this list of 4 players, IMO.

[Giuseppe]

If Shaq isn't allowed to knock his defenders over (i.e., 12 charges per game), he drops off this list of 4 players, IMO.

That's when we busted him out for Odom and won Back-to-Back.

[Killakobe81]

Dont have time to read all of this now but Kareem was the best HS player in the nation, he was one of the greatest players in NCAABB history, and was the best player in the NBA for a longer period than Duncan was. Duncan's only legit claims to being the best player was in the early 2000's ...maybe after the 2nd of the 3 peat titles ... I would argue he was the best player from 2002-2005. After that for me it's Kobe and Lebron. Before that it was Shaq. Kareem was more dominant, a better scorer rebounder and shot-blocker. Better at FT's, had one of the most deadly weapons (sky hook) in NBA history. This is no knock on Duncan, Kareem is just flat out better. Sure Kareem had better team-mates but he won everywhere he has been and won titles with two NBA teams plus led UCLA to several.

[Killakobe81]

LOL 25-22 is a travesty a sham-mockery and an indictment on the intelligence or lack of it, in the NBA forum.

[Koolaid_Man]

Dont have time to read all of this now but Kareem was the best HS player in the nation, he was one of the greatest players in NCAABB history, and was the best player in the NBA for a longer period than Duncan was. Duncan's only legit claims to being the best player was in the early 2000's ...maybe after the 2nd of the 3 peat titles ... I would argue he was the best player from 2002-2005. After that for me it's Kobe and Lebron. Before that it was Shaq. Kareem was more dominant, a better scorer rebounder and shot-blocker. Better at FT's, had one of the most deadly weapons (sky hook) in NBA history. This is no knock on Duncan, Kareem is just flat out better. Sure Kareem had better team-mates but he won everywhere he has been and won titles with two NBA teams plus led UCLA to several.


Before you proceed down the yellow brick road with your "fairness doctrine" just remember one thing...

1st option in San Antonio means your a 3rd option in LA...Kobe's stats as a second option in LA supercedes Duncan's as 1st option in SA...

Fact Check: Basketball Reference dot com....:lol

PS: At no point in time was Duncan ever better than Kobe...he may have had a better team at certain times but Man to Man...Kobe would run him out the gym...there's not a GM alive (outside of SA) that would take a prime Duncan over a Prime Kobe...not a single one...

and if you want to argue rings....let's here it...I'll leave you with this to reminisce to:

WQxgHgRh95Y

[Giuseppe]

^Watching that makes you realize how the years have taken their toll on Bryant. Without seeing these clips your mind plays tricks watching him operate now. Your subconscious has the above files, but, it's buried, so you think it's still there, or, loitering the area of his play.

But, alas, it is not....

"the problem with time I've learned....eventually time always runs out."

[Koolaid_Man]

^Watching that makes you realize how the years have taken their toll on Bryant. Without seeing these clips your mind plays tricks watching him operate now. Your subconscious has the above files, but, it's buried, so you think it's still there, or, loitering the area of his play.

But, alas, it is not....

"the problem with time I've learned....eventually time always runs out."


amen brother...sometimes when I'm alone in my room, sometimes I stare at the wall and in the back of my mind I hear my conscience call....

I miss those days...but the true Laker faithful we're not going to let these Ho's be history revisionists....we gonna tap that ass till the day that we die...:lol

[JamStone]

I'm one of the bigger non-Laker Kobe fans, but I'd take Duncan in his prime over Kobe in his prime if I were an NBA GM. It's not that Duncan was the better individual player than Kobe. Kobe in his prime was probably the better "individual" player, but you can build a championship team around a HOF big man. Duncan wasn't as prolific as a scorer, but he was still one of the better scoring big men, plus he anchored one of the top 2-3 defenses with rebounding and shotblocking.

You can build a great team around a big man that plays at an elite level at both ends of the floor. It was never more evident than the 2002-03 season where Duncan had less than a great supporting cast, with David Robinson on his last legs and Ginobili and Parker still relatively green to the NBA game and not yet the players they would eventually become. The second best player on that 2003 Spurs championship team might have been Stephen Jackson. Meanwhile Kobe was in his prime from 2004-2007 and building around him with a weak supporting cast resulted in a low playoff seed and first round exits after missing the playoffs completely one season.

I wouldn't argue with anyone saying Kobe in his prime was the better individual player than Duncan in his prime. That argument can go either way. But as for GMs choosing between the two to build around, I'd take Duncan in his prime almost every time. I think a lot of NBA GMs would too.

I know, I know. Went off into a tangent and turned it into another Kobe/Duncan debate. Oh well...

[Kobe_5_Duncan_4]

lol this thread 5 pages long

Lol that it even exists.:lol

[Koolaid_Man]

I'm one of the bigger non-Laker Kobe fans, but I'd take Duncan in his prime over Kobe in his prime if I were an NBA GM. It's not that Duncan was the better individual player than Kobe. Kobe in his prime was probably the better "individual" player, but you can build a championship team around a HOF big man. Duncan wasn't as prolific as a scorer, but he was still one of the better scoring big men, plus he anchored one of the top 2-3 defenses with rebounding and shotblocking.

You can build a great team around a big man that plays at an elite level at both ends of the floor. It was never more evident than the 2002-03 season where Duncan had less than a great supporting cast, with David Robinson on his last legs and Ginobili and Parker still relatively green to the NBA game and not yet the players they would eventually become. The second best player on that 2003 Spurs championship team might have been Stephen Jackson. Meanwhile Kobe was in his prime from 2004-2007 and building around him with a weak supporting cast resulted in a low playoff seed and first round exits after missing the playoffs completely one season.

I wouldn't argue with anyone saying Kobe in his prime was the better individual player than Duncan in his prime. That argument can go either way. But as for GMs choosing between the two to build around, I'd take Duncan in his prime almost every time. I think a lot of NBA GMs would too.

I know, I know. Went off into a tangent and turned it into another Kobe/Duncan debate. Oh well...

so many flaws in your thesis where do I start...:lol

Well since I'm one of the more astute Laker fans on this site and I always call BS when I see it...let me call out your BS....I guess we should assume that you'd take Duncan over MJ as well...right? and why because we should subscribe to the outdated theory that you always take good big man no matter what right? :lol

Well let me break it down for you...

Consensus league wide as of today is that MJ and Kobe are 1-2 the two best 2-guards to ever play the game.

The whole problem I have with your argument is that it's not based on winning and championships at all, but rather, it's based on this previous "novelty idea" or notion that you pick a big man regardless...wrong...Kobe was not only better than Duncan during their primes he's proved that he's 10 X better than Duncan post prime as well. Duncan was decent but Duncan didn't help bring SA more, fame, glory, acclaim, and titles than Kobe has to LA... and Duncan has proved that he doesn't have lasting power. He came into the league after Kobe and has declined at a much faster pace despite not even playing a tougher position than Kobe.

But knowing what we know now...No GM (outside of SA) in their right minds should choose a Prime Duncan over Prime Kobe..now if your argument is choosing on draft day and not really knowing how they'd turn out I'd agree...pick Duncan but to say you'd choose PRIME is complete and utter bullshit :lol...Duncan in his prime wasn't better than Kobe and as the team player and individual talent today he looks like Gar-bage right now and Kobe has another 2-3 yr window... of course I'm a Laker homer but facts are on my side... to me your view shows that you have a surface level knowledge at best and at worst you're just parroting old talking points from the media.

no hard feelings my man...but I can get down and dirty with the best of em and answer a higher clarion when called upon. :toast

and yes I love to hear myself speak....:lmao

[Koolaid_Man]

I'm one of the bigger non-Laker Kobe fans, but I'd take Duncan in his prime over Kobe in his prime if I were an NBA GM. It's not that Duncan was the better individual player than Kobe. Kobe in his prime was probably the better "individual" player, but you can build a championship team around a HOF big man. Duncan wasn't as prolific as a scorer, but he was still one of the better scoring big men, plus he anchored one of the top 2-3 defenses with rebounding and shotblocking.

You can build a great team around a big man that plays at an elite level at both ends of the floor. It was never more evident than the 2002-03 season where Duncan had less than a great supporting cast, with David Robinson on his last legs and Ginobili and Parker still relatively green to the NBA game and not yet the players they would eventually become. The second best player on that 2003 Spurs championship team might have been Stephen Jackson. Meanwhile Kobe was in his prime from 2004-2007 and building around him with a weak supporting cast resulted in a low playoff seed and first round exits after missing the playoffs completely one season.

I wouldn't argue with anyone saying Kobe in his prime was the better individual player than Duncan in his prime. That argument can go either way. But as for GMs choosing between the two to build around, I'd take Duncan in his prime almost every time. I think a lot of NBA GMs would too.

I know, I know. Went off into a tangent and turned it into another Kobe/Duncan debate. Oh well...


another thing let's look at those teams that Prime Kobe had to play with vs Duncan: you lose in every aspect of your argument:

Spurs 2002-2003:

Bruce Bowen (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bowenbr01.html)
Devin Brown (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/brownde02.html)
Speedy Claxton (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/claxtsp01.html)
Tim Duncan (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/duncati01.html)
Danny Ferry (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/f/ferryda01.html)
Manu Ginobili (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/ginobma01.html)
Steve Kerr (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/k/kerrst01.html)

Tony Parker (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/parketo01.html)
David Robinson (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/robinda01.html)
Malik Rose (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/rosema01.html)
Steve Smith (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/smithst01.html)
Kevin Willis (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/willike02.html)

Lakers 2004-2005:

Sasha Vujacic
Chuckey Atkins
Tierre Brown
Tony Bobbit
Kareem Rush
Luke Walton
Devean George
Caron Butler (traded)
Jumaine Jones
Brian Cook
Lamar Odom
Medvedenko
Chris Mihm

2005 -2006 Additions:

Von Wafer
Smush Parker
Devin Green
Aaron Mckie
Jim Jackson
Larhon Profit
Kwame Brown
Ronny Turiaf
Andrew Bynum (rookie project)

2006 - 2007 Additions:

Jordan Farmar
Maurice Evans
Shammond Williams
JR Pinnock

Now tell me again how was Prime Kobe supposed to compete with this garbage...you muthafuckers don't really know shit...let me know when you ready to start being honest bout the situation....:lol

[TDfan2007]

It seems as though lakaluva being neutered has turned you into an even worse poster. Didn't think that was possible tbh...


Before you proceed down the yellow brick road with your "fairness doctrine" just remember one thing...

1st option in San Antonio means your a 3rd option in LA...Kobe's stats as a second option in LA supercedes Duncan's as 1st option in SA...

Fact Check: Basketball Reference dot com....:lol

PS: At no point in time was Duncan ever better than Kobe...he may have had a better team at certain times but Man to Man...Kobe would run him out the gym...there's not a GM alive (outside of SA) that would take a prime Duncan over a Prime Kobe...not a single one...

and if you want to argue rings....let's here it...I'll leave you with this to reminisce to:

WQxgHgRh95Y

[ohmwrecker]

Now tell me again how was Prime Kobe supposed to compete with this garbage...you muthafuckers don't really know shit...let me know when you ready to start being honest bout the situation....:lol

You're comparing a Spurs championship squad to the Lakers teams after Kobe ran his meal ticket . . . uh, Shaq out of town? I thought once someone was diagnosed with the retard disease . . . that was it . . . that's as dumb as a person can get . . . but you keep getting dumber. It's amazing really. You are an oddity of medical science. You belong in a jar full of formaldehyde in a circus sideshow somewhere. :toast

[Axe Murderer]

Lol that it even exists.:lol

not my fault GNSF took the bait

[Koolaid_Man]

You're comparing a Spurs championship squad to the Lakers teams after Kobe ran his meal ticket . . . uh, Shaq out of town? I thought once someone was diagnosed with the retard disease . . . that was it . . . that's as dumb as a person can get . . . but you keep getting dumber. It's amazing really. You are an oddity of medical science. You belong in a jar full of formaldehyde in a circus sideshow somewhere. :toast


since you can't seem to logically follow an argument let me

t-y-p-e v-e-r-y s-l-o-w-l-y s-o t-h-a-t e-l-d-u-m-b-o c-a-n g-e-t i-t....

w-e w-e-r-e t-a-l-k-i-n-g b-o-u-t p-l-a-y-i-n-g i-n t-h-e-i-r

p-r-i-m-e-s...:lol o--k s-t-u-p-i-d F-U-C-K.....:lol

[Killakobe81]

I'm one of the bigger non-Laker Kobe fans, but I'd take Duncan in his prime over Kobe in his prime if I were an NBA GM. It's not that Duncan was the better individual player than Kobe. Kobe in his prime was probably the better "individual" player, but you can build a championship team around a HOF big man. Duncan wasn't as prolific as a scorer, but he was still one of the better scoring big men, plus he anchored one of the top 2-3 defenses with rebounding and shotblocking.

You can build a great team around a big man that plays at an elite level at both ends of the floor. It was never more evident than the 2002-03 season where Duncan had less than a great supporting cast, with David Robinson on his last legs and Ginobili and Parker still relatively green to the NBA game and not yet the players they would eventually become. The second best player on that 2003 Spurs championship team might have been Stephen Jackson. Meanwhile Kobe was in his prime from 2004-2007 and building around him with a weak supporting cast resulted in a low playoff seed and first round exits after missing the playoffs completely one season.

I wouldn't argue with anyone saying Kobe in his prime was the better individual player than Duncan in his prime. That argument can go either way. But as for GMs choosing between the two to build around, I'd take Duncan in his prime almost every time. I think a lot of NBA GMs would too.

I know, I know. Went off into a tangent and turned it into another Kobe/Duncan debate. Oh well...

I don't disagree ...completely. I think both sides are missing something. I don't think it would be unanimous either way (Kobe/Duncan) and I will tell you why. Traditional GM's would take Duncan over Kobe, Lebron and Durant for that matter. But what people forget here is basketball is a business. And Kobe/Lebron gives you a chance to not only win but also to makes oodles of cash even if you DO NOT win a title. Are you telling me that if both Duncan Kobe and Lebron are in their primes, that the Lakers and Cavs would trade those guys for Duncan? GTFO!!!

Whether it is right or wrong I won't argue here. And maybe Jamstone, you are right most GM's would go the Duncan route. But I bet most OWNERS choose Kobe/Lebron. Because the dollars for having a marquee star trumps building a traditional pivot orientated team, ESPECIALLY since MJ proved he could win without one. Neither are MJ, but I just disagree that the owners would follow your reasoning. And since most owners have significant input and can overrule FO decisions, trust me if Mitch or Ferry (when he had that choice) made that call (offering a prime Kobe or Lebron) almost every GM makes that deal (swapping Duncan). I wont say SA definitely would because they are pretty loyal as organizations go. But my guess more than half take Kobe/Lebron.

Remember that although at the tail end of his prime, the Lakers chose Kobe over Shaq. And although Shaq wanted to leave Orlando, part of his reasoning was that he felt the Magic were marketing penny as their star over Shaq. So teams have made that choice (to a lessor extent). And even though i would NOT choose Lebron over Dwight (even though Lebron is a better player) I can see why people would choose Lebron ...and they would not be wrong to do so.

[ohmwrecker]

since you can't seem to logically follow an argument let me . . . blah blah blah

Uh, no . . . we weren't. This thread isn't about Kobe, you mushbrained imbecile. But since you can't talk about anything else . . .

In his prime, Kobe rang with Shaq, lost to the Spurs, lost to the Pistons, ran his meal ticket out of town, talked shit about his teammates and didn't ring again until he bitched so much that he pulled another top 5 big to carry him past his prime.

Perspective.

[Giuseppe]

That ran off meal ticket turned into Odom with whom we've now went Back-2-Back with...

Ipso facto:::

Kobe: 5

Duncan: 4

[ohmwrecker]

That ran off meal ticket turned into Odom with whom we've now went Back-2-Back with...

Ipso facto:::

Kobe: 5

Duncan: 4

And . . . He tried to run off Bynum lol

Odom was no help until the Spaniard came to town.

[Kyle Orton]

:lmao of course Galileo voted for Duncan

[djohn2oo8]

And . . . He tried to run off Bynum lol

Odom was no help until the Spaniard came to town.

Ohm with the goods

[Koolaid_Man]

And . . . He tried to run off Bynum lol

Odom was no help until the Spaniard came to town.


and we'll run his ass off to if he doesn't get right...we don't fuck around biyyyaaattchhh...

[Giuseppe]

And . . . He tried to run off Bynum lol

Odom was no help until the Spaniard came to town.

That Spaniard never won a single playoff game till he got to town.

& you've no room. Your Robinson ran off Rodman with a Holy Bible.

[ohmwrecker]

That Spaniard never won a single playoff game till he got to town.

& you've no room. Your Robinson ran off Rodman with a Holy Bible.

Rambling nonsense is a poor weapon against fact.

[Giuseppe]

Rambling nonsense is a poor weapon against fact.

You just don't like it when the shit is pushed back on ya.

[ohmwrecker]

You just don't like it when the shit is pushed back on ya.

I need a shovel, tbh.

[Giuseppe]

I need a shovel, tbh.

Just clean your own house before you come lookin' at mine.

[ohmwrecker]

Just clean your own house before you come lookin' at mine.

I'm cleaning house and most of this shit ain't mine, pappy.

[Giuseppe]

I'm cleaning house and most of this shit ain't mine, pappy.

We're each responsible for all our shit back to olden times, Ohm. You don't get to pick the cutoff date to suit you. You take the good with the bad and live with it all.

[ohmwrecker]

I'll take my fair share, bubba. Just remember who's doing the poking and who's doing the poking back around here. I don't start shit, I finish it.

[JJ Hickson]

I'll take my fair share, bubba. Just remember who's doing the poking and who's doing the poking back around here. I don't start shit, I finish it.


Wow what a badass!

[Giuseppe]

I'll take my fair share, bubba. Just remember who's doing the poking and who's doing the poking back around here. I don't start shit, I finish it.

But, I'm Chef Giuseppe, and I serve the Shit Sandwiches.

Chow.

[ohmwrecker]

Wow what a badass!

You are so literal. It's a sign of stupidity, you know. A little hyperbole never hurt anybody.

[Giuseppe]

Like that little tiny hyperbole in those Portman panties on the VBM signature video loop.

[dunkman]

The edge has to go with Kareem. He seldom missed the hook shot from anywhere and he's 7' 2" with very large arms. Duncan sometimes suffers to score against bigger quick players that are excellent defenders.

Kareem was solid on defense, but Duncan is better IMO.

Both are/were clutch.

Kareem has 6 MVP's and 6 championships. Duncan has only 2 MVP's and will be 5 championships after this season, but it will be complicated to get another one.