View Full Version : Long Form Birth Certificate Required
My children just got denied passports because they were not born in a medical facility.
They were all born at home.
I sent certified Texas Birth Certificates (short form); they were not good enough. The department of state wants more information for my children to get passports.
I pointed out to the mindless Washington bureaucrat that both my wife and I were US citizens, and that because of this our children are automatically, even if they were born on the moon.
Would have none of it.
What they are requesting?
Medical records created within the first year of birth showing name, date and place of birth.
Anyone have any idea what that would be? I own a company that processes medical claims, and I have no idea. Anyone have a doctor's office bill that shows WHERE you, or your children were born? I don't, and even if at one time I did; I didn't know I needed to keep it so my kids could get a passport one day.
Thought that's what the birth certificate was for.
My surname begins "Vill" - is not hispanic, but I can't help but think that plays a large part in this. Other than spring break trips to Mexico, and a visit to Niagara Falls, I have NEVER been out of this country, and my children have NEVER left. And yet: My children's fucking citizenship is actually being questioned.
Hell of an atmosphere we've created in this country.
LnGrrrR
04-04-2011, 05:11 PM
Thought that's what the birth certificate was for.
Pretty much what I was thinking. Though you might want to ask the hospital for billing records. That might help provide "proof" as asinine as the situation is.
My surname begins "Vill" - is not hispanic, but I can't help but think that plays a large part in this. Other than spring break trips to Mexico, and a visit to Niagara Falls, I have NEVER been out of this country, and my children have NEVER left. And yet: My children's fucking citizenship is actually being questioned.
Hell of an atmosphere we've created in this country.
It's about security... they're worried that you're actually trying to get passports for terrorists. Of course, their requirements are retarded, but they're probably being forced to give you a strict list of criteria because some dumb law was enacted to keep us safe from the bad guys.
LnGrrrR
04-04-2011, 05:12 PM
Or you could try calling up Obama... I heard he's been through a similar issue. *ba dum ch*
LnGrrrR
04-04-2011, 05:15 PM
More info:
http://www.dshs.state.tx.us/vs/reqproc/faq/txonline.shtm
You should try calling them and explaining:
http://www.dshs.state.tx.us/contact.shtm
MannyIsGod
04-04-2011, 05:41 PM
*A certified birth certificate has a registrar's raised, embossed, impressed or multicolored seal, registrar's signature, and the date the certificate was filed with the registrar's office, which must be within 1 year of your birth. Some short (abstract) versions of birth certificates may not be acceptable for passport purposes.
Beginning April 1, 2011, all birth certificates must contain the full names of the applicant's parent(s). For more information, please see New Requirement for U.S. Birth Certificates.
Does your have all those requirements even though its short form? Seems like a total crock of shit to me.
More info:
http://www.dshs.state.tx.us/vs/reqproc/faq/txonline.shtm
You should try calling them and explaining:
http://www.dshs.state.tx.us/contact.shtm
Those are Texas - not having a problem; Texas recognizes my kids - has certified birth certificates on file; it's the US govt. that is questioning.
Pretty much what I was thinking. Though you might want to ask the hospital for billing records. That might help provide "proof" as asinine as the situation is.
There are no hospital billing records; they were born at home with midwives.
It's about security... they're worried that you're actually trying to get passports for terrorists. Of course, their requirements are retarded, but they're probably being forced to give you a strict list of criteria because some dumb law was enacted to keep us safe from the bad guys.
10 and 13 year old christian terrorists who attended Helotes elementary school since kindergarten?
Does your have all those requirements even though its short form? Seems like a total crock of shit to me.
Absolutely they do; same form for me and the kids; got mine; they didn't get theirs. I've already contacted one of my Senators; gonna call the other, and my rep. tomorrow.
The line that pisses me off the most?
"You were not born in a medical facility, so you will need to submit a combination of additional documents to further support your claim to United States citizenship."
Bullshit indeed.
MannyIsGod
04-04-2011, 05:47 PM
Absolutely they do; same form for me and the kids; got mine; they didn't get theirs. I've already contacted one of my Senators; gonna call the other, and my rep. tomorrow.
The line that pisses me off the most?
"You were not born in a medical facility, so you will need to submit a combination of additional documents to further support your claim to United States citizenship."
Bullshit indeed.
I would take it up with someone higher up the ladder. Are you in SA? Did you go to the main post office to get these?
MannyIsGod
04-04-2011, 05:58 PM
I didn't see that you contacted your Senators and Rep. Thats actually a great first step. I would definitely contact someone a bit higher up in the Dept of State that deals with passports here in the state. I don't believe San Antonio has one of the regional offices but I know Houston does.
clambake
04-04-2011, 06:07 PM
he's in pennsylvania.
mrsmaalox
04-04-2011, 06:11 PM
Don't your kids have shot records? They'd need those to enroll in public schools. My kids' shot records document where each immunization was administered, the first ones being within the first few weeks after birth.
MannyIsGod
04-04-2011, 06:13 PM
he's in pennsylvania.
In that case it'll be in either Philly or Pittsburgh if not both.
clambake
04-04-2011, 06:15 PM
wouldn't it be easier to get fake passports?
ploto
04-04-2011, 06:21 PM
Sorry, I do not remember your religious beliefs- any chance they were baptized or circumcised in a religious ceremony?
I would also check for medical or shot records. Did you have a physician check out your baby any time after it was born. He/she would have records of that visit whether at home or in an office. Does the midwife keep some sort of records- did she bill you for her services?
LnGrrrR
04-04-2011, 06:30 PM
There are no hospital billing records; they were born at home with midwives.
Did you maybe bring them to a hospital for a checkup or something? *shrug*
10 and 13 year old christian terrorists who attended Helotes elementary school since kindergarten?
Have you heard the stories about 4 year olds on the "No-Fly" terrorist listing? The same idiocy.
LnGrrrR
04-04-2011, 06:32 PM
The line that pisses me off the most?
"You were not born in a medical facility, so you will need to submit a combination of additional documents to further support your claim to United States citizenship."
Bullshit indeed.
What do you expect with all the people wanting to kick every foreigner out? Hatred/fear of illegal immigration is widespread in this country.
mrsmaalox
04-04-2011, 06:34 PM
FWIW, my husband has had a similar situation following him his entire life. He was born to American active duty Army parents stationed in the Panama CZ. Every single time he checks "yes" on questionnaires, forms or interviews when asked if he is an American citizen, a flag goes up and the red tape is rolled out. He is now an active duty, full Colonel with passports and security clearances up the wazoo; still the red tape continues. To make things worse, the Panama CZ no longer exists. At least once a year, he is burdoned to prove that he is an American citizen, born abroad, in a place that doesn't exist :lol
LnGrrrR
04-04-2011, 06:45 PM
FWIW, my husband has had a similar situation following him his entire life. He was born to American active duty Army parents stationed in the Panama CZ. Every single time he checks "yes" on questionnaires, forms or interviews when asked if he is an American citizen, a flag goes up and the red tape is rolled out. He is now an active duty, full Colonel with passports and security clearances up the wazoo; still the red tape continues. To make things worse, the Panama CZ no longer exists. At least once a year, he is burdoned to prove that he is an American citizen, born abroad, in a place that doesn't exist :lol
Fullbird colonel eh? Someone's living the cushy life. :)
ElNono
04-04-2011, 06:49 PM
You can always adopt them... (rimshot)
Sorry, I do not remember your religious beliefs- any chance they were baptized or circumcised in a religious ceremony?
I would also check for medical or shot records. Did you have a physician check out your baby any time after it was born. He/she would have records of that visit whether at home or in an office. Does the midwife keep some sort of records- did she bill you for her services?
Protestant.- kids baptized later in life. Yes the midwives billed us - don't have the records (though claims payments from the insurer won't be difficult to 'find').
I shouldn't need those though. My wife and I are both citizens - that should do it.
LnGrrrR
04-04-2011, 07:20 PM
I shouldn't need those though. My wife and I are both citizens - that should do it.
It's not YOUR citizenship that they're worried about though. There's probably some guy out there that tried to get an illegal immigrant through by claiming him as his son, and he got caught, and then somebody complained, and somewhere in some system a law got created that requires said document you don't have. *shrug*
It's asinine, I agree.
MannyIsGod
04-04-2011, 08:22 PM
It's not YOUR citizenship that they're worried about though. There's probably some guy out there that tried to get an illegal immigrant through by claiming him as his son, and he got caught, and then somebody complained, and somewhere in some system a law got created that requires said document you don't have. *shrug*
It's asinine, I agree.
He's produced documents that they are indeed his children. That should be more than enough but it just sounds like some idiots at the bottom of the system that don't know how it should work.
It never fails. You can walk into the customer service of <random government agencies> in 4 different locations and they'll likely give you different answers to the same question at each one. The people at the bottom are never trained properly because proper training is too expensive. Its the first thing that gets cut.
LnGrrrR
04-04-2011, 08:32 PM
He's produced documents that they are indeed his children. That should be more than enough but it just sounds like some idiots at the bottom of the system that don't know how it should work.
It never fails. You can walk into the customer service of <random government agencies> in 4 different locations and they'll likely give you different answers to the same question at each one. The people at the bottom are never trained properly because proper training is too expensive. Its the first thing that gets cut.
Yes, I alluded to that earlier. It's either some person on the bottom isn't clear on what the requirements are, or the required documents are in excess of what should be needed. (For instance, he provided documents that prove they're his children, but maybe the law requires said documents to detail place of birth, time, etc etc which the short-form birth cert he provided doesn't have.)
The long form, apparently, won't do it either. It includes information such as gestation length, last menstruation, etc... The forms I submitted ARE official forms and DO include where my little ones were born. (One in Bryan, one in SA, and one in Helotes). The state of Texas fully recognizes my children as citizens; as does the IRS - AND selective service (my oldest is 17, and has been reminded to register).
Also, the Navy recruiter is very interested in him.
That's nice, as long as you're willing to get shot at, the govt. has NO problem letting you travel the world.
ElNono
04-04-2011, 11:32 PM
On a serious note, you might want to spend $100 and consult with a lawyer. He might be able to tell you what options are at your disposal. From having a court order certifying your childs as citizens, to writing a letter to such and such.
Wild Cobra
04-04-2011, 11:45 PM
Don't you love the way bureaucracies deal with stupid rules rather than trying to do things right.
Another reason to slash the size of government.
ElNono
04-05-2011, 12:08 AM
This could easily be solved by shooting immigrants at the border. If they survive, they're definitely americans... :rolleyes
MannyIsGod
04-05-2011, 01:33 AM
Wild Cobra showing his face in here is ironic as fuck. In any event, please contact someone higher up at State. I bet that gets it solved. I really do.
Winehole23
04-05-2011, 02:08 AM
Once we all start carrying national ID, officials can check residency/legal status at discretion. No more fumbling around for SS cards and birth certificates.
Winehole23
04-05-2011, 02:09 AM
Effing sucks, 101A. They better effing straighten it out.
Once we all start carrying national ID, officials can check residency/legal status at discretion. No more fumbling around for SS cards and birth certificates.
Yes.
Comrade.
Effing sucks, 101A. They better effing straighten it out.
Was gone for 8 minutes this morning - had to run my wife up to lab.
The State Department called during that window.
A good sign that they called so quickly, OR a bad sign that they KNEW I was out of pocket for just a moment, and timed it so perfectly (just throwing it out there for the conspiracy guys to chew on).
Wild Cobra
04-05-2011, 07:02 AM
Was gone for 8 minutes this morning - had to run my wife up to lab.
The State Department called during that window.
A good sign that they called so quickly, OR a bad sign that they KNEW I was out of pocket for just a moment, and timed it so perfectly (just throwing it out there for the conspiracy guys to chew on).
They had their spy satellites on you huh?
7Gl6J6H1mc8
ElNono
04-05-2011, 07:04 AM
Was gone for 8 minutes this morning - had to run my wife up to lab.
The State Department called during that window.
A good sign that they called so quickly, OR a bad sign that they KNEW I was out of pocket for just a moment, and timed it so perfectly (just throwing it out there for the conspiracy guys to chew on).
You might be experiencing the VRWC first hand...
State Dept. called back.
SD: "Sir, could you send us your Resident Alien Card?"
"No, I don't have one."
"Are you in this country illegally?"
"I'm not sure anymore."
"How long have you lived here?"
"My entire life."
"And when did your parents arrive."
"1943, they came in through the port of Santa Rosa in Downtown San Antonio on the day they were born."
.....pause - no doubt Yankee bureaucrat is trying to figure out why a Mexican would arrive on a boat - maybe he's Cuban! (btw, I am lilly-white gringo, my only accent is a slight Texas drawl)......
Me: "THEY WERE BORN HERE, TOO!"
"Wait a minute, are you a citizen?"
"Yes - you know my SSN is right there on my child's application."
"I'm going to take this to a SPECIALIST, I'll call you back."
"Thank you."
101A,
After this gets resolved (because it is truly too stupid NOT to get resolved eventually), I hope that you will send a full description of what you went through (including transcripts of phone conversations if you have them) to someplace like CNN or the NY Times or some kind of national media.
The only way to stop this from happening to more people (and if it is happening to you it must be happening to others) is to shine such an enormous light on it that the bureaucrats can no longer stand the heat of not fixing the process.
Do it for your fellow Americans. Think of all the taxpayer dollars being wasted on this nonsense, to say nothing of your own lost productivity. At least contact one of the members of Congress and let them use it as a campaign issue about avoiding government waste.
I'm serious man...this is too stupid for words.
Oh, and when you document all of this, get the names of the people you have spoken with straight...it not only adds credibility, but it hopefully will get idiots who are doing this sort of thing off the taxpayers payroll.
MannyIsGod
04-05-2011, 08:27 AM
State Dept. called back.
SD: "Sir, could you send us your Resident Alien Card?"
"No, I don't have one."
"Are you in this country illegally?"
"I'm not sure anymore."
"How long have you lived here?"
"My entire life."
"And when did your parents arrive."
"1943, they came in through the port of Santa Rosa in Downtown San Antonio on the day they were born."
.....pause - no doubt Yankee bureaucrat is trying to figure out why a Mexican would arrive on a boat - maybe he's Cuban! (btw, I am lilly-white gringo, my only accent is a slight Texas drawl)......
Me: "THEY WERE BORN HERE, TOO!"
"Wait a minute, are you a citizen?"
"Yes - you know my SSN is right there on my child's application."
"I'm going to take this to a SPECIALIST, I'll call you back."
"Thank you."
:lol
State Dept (Sheri for posterity) called back.
I am sending a slew of school, medical and insurance records to her (via fax) to prove my children's citizenship.
If this "works", it truly indicates the idiocy of bureaucracy. The documents I am sending would be a piece of cake to create (report cards, shot records, etc....) much easier than getting the certified birth certificate I submitted already. This is jumping through hoops for the sake of jumping through hoops; no security has been added - files have simply gotten stuffed (I sent 28 pages of documentation).
As for the media, yes I will contact at least some newspapers; but going through this, I, of course Googled it. Mine is not a unique situation.
Just search, "Born at Home denied passport".
You will astounded, and sickened.
And, again, my kids are white children of two US citizens - this should resolve itself easily. If they were hispanic, born on US soil, at home, to at least one immigrant - that child is just as much a citizen as you, me or my children; good fucking luck proving it.
God help us.
MannyIsGod
04-05-2011, 08:39 AM
I'm glad your situation is resolving itself. You're right about the jumping hoops part. Its pretty much the act the man behind the curtain puts on for the idiots in this country. No really, we're doing something. I mean look how inconvenienced you are!
hater
04-05-2011, 09:23 AM
let me guess, you look mexican.
let me guess, you look mexican.
Not even a little, though as I mentioned earlier, my last name begins "Vill.."
clambake
04-05-2011, 10:01 AM
is your last name villain? that could explain this.
Update:
Have not heard back from State, BUT:
Yesterday I had gotten letters for my two youngest children. We applied for their passports on a Monday, then for my older boy's on the following Thursday. I fully expected to get HIS letter today or tomorrow.
Got his passport today (yes, he was also born at home).
They're doing a great job over there.
MannyIsGod
04-05-2011, 10:49 AM
Ridiculous. Lack of training.
johnsmith
04-05-2011, 10:57 AM
is your last name villain? that could explain this.
:lol
LnGrrrR
04-05-2011, 11:36 AM
State Dept (Sheri for posterity) called back.
I am sending a slew of school, medical and insurance records to her (via fax) to prove my children's citizenship.
If this "works", it truly indicates the idiocy of bureaucracy. The documents I am sending would be a piece of cake to create (report cards, shot records, etc....) much easier than getting the certified birth certificate I submitted already. This is jumping through hoops for the sake of jumping through hoops; no security has been added - files have simply gotten stuffed (I sent 28 pages of documentation).
As for the media, yes I will contact at least some newspapers; but going through this, I, of course Googled it. Mine is not a unique situation.
Just search, "Born at Home denied passport".
You will astounded, and sickened.
And, again, my kids are white children of two US citizens - this should resolve itself easily. If they were hispanic, born on US soil, at home, to at least one immigrant - that child is just as much a citizen as you, me or my children; good fucking luck proving it.
God help us.
Told you that it would be some asinine process where you'd have to send a ton of documents.
Although requesting more documents IS a form of security. By introducing more evidence, you are proving thief citizenship through multiple chains. If you were trying to forge their identity, then you would have to do much more work, and it would be very hard to create all those documents and get away with it without significant research.
Oh and the scenario you presented, about the half-Hispanic kid? That's my kid.*gulp*.. :lol
LnGrrrR
04-05-2011, 11:39 AM
I'm glad your situation is resolving itself. You're right about the jumping hoops part. Its pretty much the act the man behind the curtain puts on for the idiots in this country. No really, we're doing something. I mean look how inconvenienced you are!
It IS a form of security... Just a stupid one. If you are going to forge something, you have to be really dedicated. Of course, it screws over lots of regular citizens too.
MannyIsGod
04-05-2011, 12:11 PM
I promise you that you don't need to be dedicated. You need a scanner and a printer. I promise you some of those forms 101 mentioned are nothing more than printed out documents with no seal, watermarks, or other identifying features.
Its about as much security as leaving a car window down but saying its OK because you locked the door.
baseline bum
04-05-2011, 01:15 PM
"Are you in this country illegally?"
"I'm not sure anymore."
:lmao
RandomGuy
04-05-2011, 01:26 PM
My children just got denied passports because they were not born in a medical facility.
They were all born at home.
I sent certified Texas Birth Certificates (short form); they were not good enough. The department of state wants more information for my children to get passports.
I pointed out to the mindless Washington bureaucrat that both my wife and I were US citizens, and that because of this our children are automatically, even if they were born on the moon.
Would have none of it.
What they are requesting?
Medical records created within the first year of birth showing name, date and place of birth.
Anyone have any idea what that would be? I own a company that processes medical claims, and I have no idea. Anyone have a doctor's office bill that shows WHERE you, or your children were born? I don't, and even if at one time I did; I didn't know I needed to keep it so my kids could get a passport one day.
Thought that's what the birth certificate was for.
My surname begins "Vill" - is not hispanic, but I can't help but think that plays a large part in this. Other than spring break trips to Mexico, and a visit to Niagara Falls, I have NEVER been out of this country, and my children have NEVER left. And yet: My children's fucking citizenship is actually being questioned.
Hell of an atmosphere we've created in this country.
I would strongly suspect that the birth certificate you have is fully adequate in terms of legal requirements.
Honestly, it sounds like a good lunch hour project. I will do some googlin' and see what I can find along those lines.
If it were me, I would be asking that guy about the legal basis for his request. Ask for the specific law or regulation.
The state of Texas issued that document, and if the Federal government won't accept it, that seems to be a bone for the Attorney General of Texas to pick with that particular bureaucrat.
edit---
Come to think of it, I would think the state government of Texas would LOVE to get some play by fighting a federal burearcrat over this...
Methinks that is a pissing contest that Texas would win.
LnGrrrR
04-05-2011, 01:28 PM
I promise you that you don't need to be dedicated. You need a scanner and a printer. I promise you some of those forms 101 mentioned are nothing more than printed out documents with no seal, watermarks, or other identifying features.
Its about as much security as leaving a car window down but saying its OK because you locked the door.
I'm not saying those documents are hard to fake when it comes to making them look real. But collecting real names of people who taught in those schools, real names of people who worked in those hospitals, etc etc. Most likely, someone is reviewing those documents and doublechecking a handful of them by calling said school/hospital/etc etc.
RandomGuy
04-05-2011, 01:42 PM
Preliminary research:
http://travel.state.gov/passport/get/first/first_830.html#step3first
*A certified birth certificate has a registrar's raised, embossed, impressed or multicolored seal, registrar's signature, and the date the certificate was filed with the registrar's office, which must be within 1 year of your birth. Please note, some short (abstract) versions of birth certificates may not be acceptable for passport purposes
Hmmm. It say *some*.
Also found the specific law:
http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr;sid=ca2a93f89af9157b59a7446ea8c359e9;rg n=div5;view=text;node=22%3A1.0.1.6.33;idno=22;cc=e cfr
Not sure if that link will work, but it is on the right track. The law may direct or allow the department of State to make some rules in this regard. One would have to look up the regulations as well.
http://aoprals.state.gov/content.asp?content_id=231&menu_id=92
Still working on the specifics.
(edit) State Department does not appear to have specific regulations on passports. Odd.
RandomGuy
04-05-2011, 01:51 PM
Title 22: Foreign Relations
PART 51—PASSPORTS
(a) Primary evidence of birth in the United States. A person born in the United States generally must submit a birth certificate. The birth certificate must show the full name of the applicant, the applicant's place and date of birth, the full name of the parent(s), and must be signed by the official custodian of birth records, bear the seal of the issuing office, and show a filing date within one year of the date of birth.
(b) Secondary evidence of birth in the United States. If the applicant cannot submit a birth certificate that meets the requirement of paragraph (a) of this section, he or she must submit secondary evidence sufficient to establish to the satisfaction of the Department that he or she was born in the United States. Secondary evidence includes but is not limited to hospital birth certificates, baptismal certificates, medical and school records, certificates of circumcision, other documentary evidence created shortly after birth but generally not more than 5 years after birth, and/or affidavits of persons having personal knowledge of the facts of the birth.
That is what the law says on the matter.
RandomGuy
04-05-2011, 01:56 PM
An affidavit of someone attending the birth would seem to suffice.
The law seems to give the Department of State wide lattitude in asking for something, but does seem to leave some room for negotiation with the person processing your request.
Title 22: Foreign Relations
PART 51—PASSPORTS
(a) Primary evidence of birth in the United States. A person born in the United States generally must submit a birth certificate. The birth certificate must show the full name of the applicant, the applicant's place and date of birth, the full name of the parent(s), and must be signed by the official custodian of birth records, bear the seal of the issuing office, and show a filing date within one year of the date of birth....
That is what the law says on the matter.
And the birth certificate I supplied meets those requirements, however
that's 51.42 - later is ...
§ 51.45 Department discretion to require evidence of U.S. citizenship or non-citizen nationality.
The Department may require an applicant to provide any evidence that it deems necessary to establish that he or she is a U.S. citizen or non-citizen national, including evidence in addition to the evidence specified in 22 CFR 51.42 through 51.44.
They are well within their "rights" - which, frankly, is slightly more ominous.
RandomGuy
04-05-2011, 02:31 PM
And the birth certificate I supplied meets those requirements, however
that's 51.42 - later is ...
They are well within their "rights" - which, frankly, is slightly more ominous.
Well, I did put in a call to The Department of State Health Services Vital Statistics Unit. After being on hold for approximately 1/2 hour, I got through.
(888) 963-7111
You can get a Long Form Birth Certificate issued, with only the short form. Takes a few days, but there you go.
edit
Sorry forgot the URL:
http://www.dshs.state.tx.us/vs/reqproc/certified_copy.shtm
That may be easier than fighting this fight. Just spend the $22 each to get the long form and submit *that* instead.
Hope this helps. Interesting problem, sorry to hear about your troubles.
Spoke to them again.
Looks like my slew of (faxed) file stuffing evidence is good enough to satisfy the powers that be. My children's passports are being issued (allegedly).
Lessons learned:
1. Be aggressive (they mentioned hearing from the Senator's and Congressman's representatives)
2. Send lots of paper.
Well, I did put in a call to The Department of State Health Services Vital Statistics Unit. After being on hold for approximately 1/2 hour, I got through.
(888) 963-7111
You can get a Long Form Birth Certificate issued, with only the short form. Takes a few days, but there you go.
edit
Sorry forgot the URL:
http://www.dshs.state.tx.us/vs/reqproc/certified_copy.shtm
That may be easier than fighting this fight. Just spend the $22 each to get the long form and submit *that* instead.
Hope this helps. Interesting problem, sorry to hear about your troubles.
The long form wouldn't have helped - I thought when I started the thread it would have, I was wrong.
MannyIsGod
04-05-2011, 02:54 PM
I'm not saying those documents are hard to fake when it comes to making them look real. But collecting real names of people who taught in those schools, real names of people who worked in those hospitals, etc etc. Most likely, someone is reviewing those documents and doublechecking a handful of them by calling said school/hospital/etc etc.
:lol
I don't buy they're double checking anything for a second.
LnGrrrR
04-05-2011, 04:14 PM
They are well within their "rights" - which, frankly, is slightly more ominous.
The whole "slew of paperwork" fits in other areas as well. When I put in my wife's green card paperwork, the lawyer had me throw in copies of cards/letters, plane flight tickets, an entire month of phone bill records, etc etc. He pretty much stated that the thicker the stack of paperwork, the more legit it seems.
LnGrrrR
04-05-2011, 04:22 PM
:lol
I don't buy they're double checking anything for a second.
Probably not. But there's a chance they might be, so the forger has to decide whether or not he thinks they won't (and therefore, not have to do the research) or he thinks they might (and do a ton of research).
Again, all it takes is one fishy document pulled at random, and the forger could be in serious trouble. By providing massive amounts of paperwork, it tends to hurt the idea that all of it was forged.
SnakeBoy
04-05-2011, 05:29 PM
Just get rid of the kid born in Helotes. That child is the cause of all your problems.
Just get rid of the kid born in Helotes. That child is the cause of all your problems.
Yeah - but he's my favorite.
ploto
04-06-2011, 01:05 PM
I am sending a slew of school, medical and insurance records to her (via fax) to prove my children's citizenship.
If this "works", it truly indicates the idiocy of bureaucracy. The documents I am sending would be a piece of cake to create (report cards, shot records, etc....) much easier than getting the certified birth certificate I submitted already.
Reminds me a little of a situation I had with a financial institution. They said my son had to have a state issued ID card- he was under 16- to show proof of identity. I told them- here's his passport. They said no that it had to be a state of Texas ID. After trying unsuccessfully to explain to the woman what it took to get him this passport, I then spent 2 hours in line at DPS to get him a state ID. You guessed it- all I had to show them to obtain it was his passport. :bang:bang
Reminds me a little of a situation I had with a financial institution. They said my son had to have a state issued ID card- he was under 16- to show proof of identity. I told them- here's his passport. They said no that it had to be a state of Texas ID. After trying unsuccessfully to explain to the woman what it took to get him this passport, I then spent 2 hours in line at DPS to get him a state ID. You guessed it- all I had to show them to obtain it was his passport. :bang:bang
Keep the anecdotes coming. Before long, were going to have a book.
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