Bonner/Blair frontcourt..

[HarlemHeat37]

Just stating the obvious here, but I thought I would put it into numbers..

Since March 1st:

The Bonner/Blair frontcourt is -33 when they are on the floor together..

They are +10 vs. teams that are under .500..
They are -42 vs. teams that are over .500..

:lol:lol..

For the entire season:

They are +19 vs. teams that are under .500..
They are -21 vs. teams that are over .500, which includes a +13 4th quarter in a blowout win vs. Atlanta, stat-padding, but I'll still count it..

Their minutes together have steadily increased as the season has moved forward, which is puzzling, since they weren't seeing much time on the floor together when the Spurs were peaking, earlier in the season..the duo continues to get worse, the more they play together..

[Thomas82]

That's just plain BAD!!

[ElNono]

But, but... we won!

[TE]

Is pop provided some statistician to impart these alarming stats? Holy shit, for the love of righteousness.

[Dex]

Either Dice goes back to the bench, or Pop starts playing Splitter. Something has to give with the rotation.

Otherwise, Spurs will be riding the Blair / Bonner combo right out of the playoffs.

[HarlemHeat37]

Splitter is +25 since March 1st, btw..

+/- stats are flawed and tricky, but they can be telling as well..I thought it would be fitting to use them in a stat argument involving Bonner..

[chazley]

Wow, a spurstalk post that is well-thought out and provides stats, finally someone I can respect.

Much agreed on the Blair/Bonner combo. When you have your 4th and 5th best bigs paired together for more than 60 seconds it is never going to turn out well.

[DesignatedT]

Bonner/Blair combo is horrible. I doubt we see it in excess in the playoffs.

[Spurminator]

Since March 1st:

The Bonner/Blair frontcourt is -33 when they are on the floor together..


So, they averaged a -1.7 per game during a stretch where the team averaged a +1.0 per game. A difference of 2.7 points per game.

I don't like the Blair/Bonner front line either but that's not exactly a damning stat. Given that they're on the second unit it's to be expected that they would perform below the team average. I expected worse, to be honest.

[Bill_Brasky]

The only way I can see justifying the Bonner/Blair lineup is Pop thinking "OK, these are my 2 worst bigs so I want them to get some minutes against decent front lines so they can get tougher/get experience". This allows him to rest Tim, Tiago and Dice for the playoffs so that when the time comes, we can always have one of those 3 on the court and give Blair/Bonner minutes with them as needed.

Please please let that be Pop's reasoning.

[chazley]

At this point, Tiago playing anything under 25 minutes every game from here on out is only hurting him. He doesn't need rest.

What I fear Pop is doing, and I'm pretty sure it's what he's doing, is he's trying to get big men rotations on the floor that don't equate to a poor-man's Lakers frontline. He instead wants floor-spacing big men next to Duncan/Blair when they're in the game because he knows any combo that has similar skill sets with Bynum and Pau is just gonna be redundant and not give us any advantage at all, and, in his mind, would be hurting us.

However, personally, I still think Tiago should be playing next to Duncan for 10-15 minutes a game and taking Tim's backup minutes, which means he would get about 25 minutes per game.

[mingus]

if you don't have at least four rings you can't question Pop. don't you know that? he could take a shit at center court and toss his feces into the stands, and we wouldn't be able to question him.

[Mugen]

if you don't have at least four rings you can't question Pop. don't you know that? he could take a shit at center court and toss his feces into the stands, and we wouldn't be able to question him.

Pop Homers would probably note it as Pop giving back to the community.

[Strategic]

Bonner fits with Duncan, McDyess and Splitter. Blair fits with ? You can argue that he fits with Duncan, but Pop changed that lineup. Blair is.............................out, or the Spurs are toast.

[Bill_Brasky]

At this point, Tiago playing anything under 25 minutes every game from here on out is only hurting him. He doesn't need rest.

What I fear Pop is doing, and I'm pretty sure it's what he's doing, is he's trying to get big men rotations on the floor that don't equate to a poor-man's Lakers frontline. He instead wants floor-spacing big men next to Duncan/Blair when they're in the game because he knows any combo that has similar skill sets with Bynum and Pau is just gonna be redundant and not give us any advantage at all, and, in his mind, would be hurting us.

However, personally, I still think Tiago should be playing next to Duncan for 10-15 minutes a game and taking Tim's backup minutes, which means he would get about 25 minutes per game.


Hmm, interesting. I do agree though, and if Bonner could make his 3's consistently in the PO's, this strategy might have a chance of working. Pop doesn't wanna give up on him but if he doesn't produce this year then I hope Pop will give up on it.

[mingus]

the really, really sad part is that Pop will use the combo in the playoffs against LA and realize it doesn't work, esp. on the road. however, by the time he realizes it (and it may only be for a game), the Spurs will be down by 10-12 points and in a hole. very reminiscent if the last game SA played against LA.

[alchemist]

put blair in the doghouse (get mad lone blair fan :lol), bring splitter in.

[DMC]

Pop Homers would probably note it as Pop giving back to the community.

:lmao

I mean..

:nope

[Capt Bringdown]

Bynum with 11 boards in the 1st half vs Utah.

Bonner/Blair, oh my.

[analyzed]

It's not that simple, you have to factor in is the blair/bonner combo is matched up vs the opposings second team, when you factor in that oure perimeter second team is one of the best in the league, Manu, hill and Neal. yet we our still being outscored by our opponents 2nd team , that simply means bonner and Blair play awful together.

Take the Altanta game for example Bonner and bliar started playing with 3 min left in the 1st, game was tied , when they left we were loosing by 9 points, this inspite of Hill scoring big.



So, they averaged a -1.7 per game during a stretch where the team averaged a +1.0 per game. A difference of 2.7 points per game.

I don't like the Blair/Bonner front line either but that's not exactly a damning stat. Given that they're on the second unit it's to be expected that they would perform below the team average. I expected worse, to be honest.

[TampaDude]

Dear Pop,

It's very simple. Keep Bonner and Blair separated, and we win it all. :D

Sincerely,

Spurs Fans

[George Gervin's Afro]

Just stating the obvious here, but I thought I would put it into numbers..

Since March 1st:

The Bonner/Blair frontcourt is -33 when they are on the floor together..

They are +10 vs. teams that are under .500..
They are -42 vs. teams that are over .500..

:lol:lol..

For the entire season:

They are +19 vs. teams that are under .500..
They are -21 vs. teams that are over .500, which includes a +13 4th quarter in a blowout win vs. Atlanta, stat-padding, but I'll still count it..

Their minutes together have steadily increased as the season has moved forward, which is puzzling, since they weren't seeing much time on the floor together when the Spurs were peaking, earlier in the season..the duo continues to get worse, the more they play together..

They are terrible together...

[Bruno]

I don't like +/- stats used like that. Bonner and Blair aren't huge part of the offense so looking at the offense when they are on the court has little interest.

On the other hand, points allowed (the - part of +/-) is very telling since bigmen are the most important part of the defense.

[Warlord23]

In the early days of the season, the reason the Spurs won a bunch of games with Timmy playing career low minutes was the second unit as a whole. They used to pull away from other teams' bench lineups and give us a comfortable cushion.

Nowadays, second unit = Bonner/Blair, which usually sparks a scoring spree for the opponent. Our starters have zero margin for error, because they know the bench is just waiting to provide some layup/putback practice for the opposing team.

LA will always play 2 out of Gasol, Bynum, Odom at any point in the game. Which means Bonner/Blair will be matched up vs Gasol/Odom or Bynum/Odom. If a Hawks frontline minus Josh Smith and Collins starts muscling you around, you better bring the lube vs LA. What's more, they won't be called for 3-second violations by the zebras, so Bonner will have to get used to being treated like a rag doll when he is in the game.

[Warlord23]

Wow, a spurstalk post that is well-thought out and provides stats, finally someone I can respect.


While I agree with the premise, using +/- stats to justify anything is flawed. For instance, Bonner's +/- is purely dependent on who he plays with.


In 2008-09, Matt Bonner led the Spurs in +/- by a large margin. Reason: he started 67 of 81 games that season, and spent almost all his time with both Duncan and Parker in the game.
In 2009-10 and 2010-11, his +/- per minute has dipped but is still decent. Reason: he has only started a combined 9 games in these 2 seasons, but is still frequently paired with Duncan as the 1st big off the bench.


+/- completely depends on who you played with. Michael Finley is a prime example.

In 05-06 and 06-07, Finley started only a combined 34 games, and had an unspectacular +/-, well below the likes of Bowen.
In 07-08 and 08-09, Finley started a combined 138 games. Not surprisingly, he had a better +/- than Bowen and Horry and even better than Manu in 07-08
Another example: because Manu came off the bench in 2008-09, his +/- is significantly worse than Roger Mason who was starting.
Last year, RJ had a horrible season overall but had a +/- similar to Parker


Stop using +/-, it is a misleading stat.