One thing that I like about...

[xellos88330]

this years San Antonio Spurs is this.

When the Spurs get down double digits in the middle of the game, I do not worry nearly as much anymore. The offense can get hot at any minute and bring the Spurs within striking distance in only 3 possessions. I appreciate the fact the Spurs have the capability to do this.

Now if only there were a way to combine this years offense with the defense of the championship days. Oh well. I can dream can't I? :toast

[Harry Callahan]

I'm afraid that defense is not available. Unfortunately, they can't lock down like that right now.

Actually Splitter could help the interior defense some, but the offense may suffer.

Offense is the calling card now.

[DMC]

The championship team of 2007 had Tim, Tony and Manu, then there was Bowen and Oberto. Bowen is obviously a lock down defender, and Oberto wasn't bad, however why has the defense dropped off so much when 3 of the 5 are still on the floor? Surely Oberto's defense wasn't that solid. Was Bowen so good at defense that he could make the entire team look like a good defensive team, or is the up tempo offensive scheme simply borrowing from the defense? George Hill isn't a great defender, he's as good as most on the team though. Would Tiago, Tim, Tony, Manu and Hill be a better defensive team than the 5 we start now?

[ShoogarBear]

Oberto was more solid on defense than he gets credit for. He did a lot of Splitter-like things, even though he didn't have Tiago's physicality. Maybe part of the problem is that Oberto didn't really contribute until his second year, so Pop thinks Tiago can't contribute until then either. Bassackward thinking, I know.

Tim four years ago was a defensive beast, so yeah there's been some dropoff.

And was Bowen's defense THAT good? LeBron's stats from the Finals: 14, 25, 25, and 24 points. 32-90 FG, 35.6%

You tell me.

[Baseline]

The championship team of 2007 had Tim, Tony and Manu, then there was Bowen and Oberto. Bowen is obviously a lock down defender, and Oberto wasn't bad, however why has the defense dropped off so much when 3 of the 5 are still on the floor? Surely Oberto's defense wasn't that solid. Was Bowen so good at defense that he could make the entire team look like a good defensive team, or is the up tempo offensive scheme simply borrowing from the defense? George Hill isn't a great defender, he's as good as most on the team though. Would Tiago, Tim, Tony, Manu and Hill be a better defensive team than the 5 we start now?

When Pop sat Bowen for no reason other than to play Finley more minutes, it marked the demise of our defense. From the second Finley arrived, he couldn't guard anybody. But we signed him for two years. He was useful in 2007, but not in 2008. In 2008 was was done. But of course, Pop RE-SIGNED him, even after it was abundantly clear to the rest of the league that he was done.

Yes, Bowen was good, but Bowen also had a n aura about him that was very intimidating. The best perimeter player on the opposing team knew Bowen would be in his shirt all night, and that gets very old. I was a scorer in my day, and there was nothing worse than knowing you had to deal with a pest defender all night.

But even worse, Bowen wore his reputation as a physical defender like a sheriff's badge - and he got the benefit of the doubt from refs, much like Artest does now. Artest does nothing but push and grab and slap people's wrists, but if he does it ALL GAME, the refs can't call every single one of them.

Point is, since bowen the Spurs haven't had a perimeter defender who is even a pest, much less an intimidating presence like Bowen.

In my opinion, Pop sat Bowen at least a year too soon. To me Bowen had lost maybe a quarter of a step, but not enough to be demoted to the pine. I mean, the year we had Bogans, are you telling me that Bowen couldn't have done that for us that very same year? But of course, Bowen was kind of forced into retirement - the rest of the league thought he was done, although there are lots of guys still playing in the league who he had way more gas than at that time, including Finley.

[rmt]

4 years is a long time in basketball. TD and Manu were 29 and 30 - in (or a little past) their prime. Bowen (even if he was older than RJ) was a much better defensive player. Oberto instead of the abomination that is Bonner/Blair. One can see why the defense has dropped off.

Back then, if the game was close, I was pretty confident that the Spurs would win. Their defense was that good and they executed and played smart down the stretch. Now - not so. Besides, the elite teams (CHI, BOS, LA, MIA) are much better (especially defensively) now than DAL and PHX.

[silverblk mystix]

When Pop sat Bowen for no reason other than to play Finley more minutes, it marked the demise of our defense. From the second Finley arrived, he couldn't guard anybody. But we signed him for two years. He was useful in 2007, but not in 2008. In 2008 was was done. But of course, Pop RE-SIGNED him, even after it was abundantly clear to the rest of the league that he was done.

Yes, Bowen was good, but Bowen also had a n aura about him that was very intimidating. The best perimeter player on the opposing team knew Bowen would be in his shirt all night, and that gets very old. I was a scorer in my day, and there was nothing worse than knowing you had to deal with a pest defender all night.

But even worse, Bowen wore his reputation as a physical defender like a sheriff's badge - and he got the benefit of the doubt from refs, much like Artest does now. Artest does nothing but push and grab and slap people's wrists, but if he does it ALL GAME, the refs can't call every single one of them.

Point is, since bowen the Spurs haven't had a perimeter defender who is even a pest, much less an intimidating presence like Bowen.

In my opinion, Pop sat Bowen at least a year too soon. To me Bowen had lost maybe a quarter of a step, but not enough to be demoted to the pine. I mean, the year we had Bogans, are you telling me that Bowen couldn't have done that for us that very same year? But of course, Bowen was kind of forced into retirement - the rest of the league thought he was done, although there are lots of guys still playing in the league who he had way more gas than at that time, including Finley.

Even though this is ancient history now...I agree with most of this...

I would add that-had Pop really wanted to- he could have also MANAGED Bowen's minutes while having Bowen groom someone else at defense and maybe prolonged the spurs defensive demise.

Finley was a stain that is being repeated with Bonner/Splitter...

To be fair-the league was changing to allow a more offensive game over defense so Pop had his reasons-but it still stings when looking at how Bowen was treated-in regards to Finley.

[cherylsteele]

Oberto was more solid on defense than he gets credit for. He did a lot of Splitter-like things, even though he didn't have Tiago's physicality. Maybe part of the problem is that Oberto didn't really contribute until his second year, so Pop thinks Tiago can't contribute until then either. Bassackward thinking, I know.

Tim four years ago was a defensive beast, so yeah there's been some dropoff.

And was Bowen's defense THAT good? LeBron's stats from the Finals: 14, 25, 25, and 24 points. 32-90 FG, 35.6%

You tell me.
I have been saying this as well, Splitter plays like an athletic Oberto.
Splitter's BBIQ is quite high, he knows where ot go on the court most of the time and is getter better at it. Give him more time and Spurs' fans and coaches should be very pleased with the results.

[Yorae]

Because our bigs don't get up there frequently enough to contest shots (except timmy and tiago). I remember an article that says teams don't respect spurs defense anymore because they don't have a shot blocker guarding the paint. And yes, bowen is really really good defensively. But we also have to consider the offensive game in the nba evolving. A lot of very good offensive players.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Without Bowen, the Spurs would only have half the championships they have now.

True story.

[rmt]

Even though this is ancient history now...I agree with most of this...

I would add that-had Pop really wanted to- he could have also MANAGED Bowen's minutes while having Bowen groom someone else at defense and maybe prolonged the spurs defensive demise.

Finley was a stain that is being repeated with Bonner/Splitter...

To be fair-the league was changing to allow a more offensive game over defense so Pop had his reasons-but it still stings when looking at how Bowen was treated-in regards to Finley.

And it's ironic that Finley in turn bailed on the Spurs when he requested to be waived. Must have really shocked/hurt Pop. Serves him right. Unfortunately, he's doing the same thing with his man love Bonner vs Splitter.

[admiralsnackbar]

The championship team of 2007 had Tim, Tony and Manu, then there was Bowen and Oberto. Bowen is obviously a lock down defender, and Oberto wasn't bad, however why has the defense dropped off so much when 3 of the 5 are still on the floor? Surely Oberto's defense wasn't that solid. Was Bowen so good at defense that he could make the entire team look like a good defensive team, or is the up tempo offensive scheme simply borrowing from the defense? George Hill isn't a great defender, he's as good as most on the team though. Would Tiago, Tim, Tony, Manu and Hill be a better defensive team than the 5 we start now?

Fab was nothing to write home about, but even to the end, Horry was one of the smartest, most able defenders I've ever seen. Losing him and Bruce hurt the D, and guys like them are too rare/expensive to replace easily.

[Sean Cagney]

Fab was nothing to write home about, but even to the end, Horry was one of the smartest, most able defenders I've ever seen. Losing him and Bruce hurt the D, and guys like them are too rare/expensive to replace easily.

Yep starting post forgot about Horry! He killed it one game in the finals with 4 blocks or so! In 07 Horry was still a beast on D.

[coachmac87]

Without Bowen, the Spurs would only have half the championships they have now.

True story.

Without Duncan spurs have 0.....:wakeup

[Keyser soze]

this years San Antonio Spurs is this.

When the Spurs get down double digits in the middle of the game, I do not worry nearly as much anymore. The offense can get hot at any minute and bring the Spurs within striking distance in only 3 possessions. I appreciate the fact the Spurs have the capability to do this.

Now if only there were a way to combine this years offense with the defense of the championship days. Oh well. I can dream can't I? :toast


I totally agree.

[JR3]

Spurs fans don't really like to look on the bright side do they (we)? This thread was about the great ability to score, and quickly became about the lack of deffense. I agree our offense is borrowing from our deffense.. Lets hope it was a no interest loan.

[ohmwrecker]

why has the defense dropped off so much when 3 of the 5 are still on the floor?

They are 4 years older. Although, Tim is still an elite defender in limited minutes. Manu, without Bowen to defend the opposing team's best wing, is less effective. Tony has actually improved defensively, but is nowhere near being considered a top defensive PG. RJ has never in his career been a good defender, but he has done an admirable job when he is focused and engaged.


Was Bowen so good at defense that he could make the entire team look like a good defensive team, or is the up tempo offensive scheme simply borrowing from the defense?

Bowen was that good defensively, but the Spurs, as a team, were better and more defensively oriented. Also, good defense triggers offense more than good offense triggers defense. This team is just different conceptually and schematically now.


Would Tiago, Tim, Tony, Manu and Hill be a better defensive team than the 5 we start now?

Yes, but it would be a bad lineup for certain match ups and the 2nd unit would suffer. As much as I complain about Pop's insistence on the post/stretch 4 concept, when it is executed properly, it is highly effective. It seems as though Pop still hasn't figured out yet that Bowen and Horry cannot be replaced by "plug in" players.

The Spurs, as currently constructed, will have to play near symbiotic team offense, as yet unseen team defense on a consistent and maintained level, control the pace (boards, turnovers, 2nd chance pts, etc.) of the game and Pop will have to do more adjusting on the fly than he is comfortable with for the Spurs to advance in the playoffs. It's a mountain of a task.

[guzmangm]

Bowen at the right time also helped. Pop would have another defender on the other team's number one, and then 4th quarter sick Bowen on them. It was great. Nowitzsky, Hamilton, even Kobe. I still get goosebumps watching that behind the back block on Nowitsky's jumper. I can't remember the year but Bowen was facing away and yet contorted his hand to still block Dirk from behind.

[The ADMIRAL 50]

Our biggest issue defensively these days is, as many of us already know, our lack of size. In the past, coupling Duncan with Oberto, regardless of his individual defensive prowess, gave us two seven footers on the floor, essentially affording us complete ownership of the paint and turning our opponents into jump shooting teams. Then when we put the league's premier perimeter defender, good ol' Bruce, on our opponent's top player teams were doubly f*cked. These days Tim plays center exclusively, regardless of how we list the lineup, and he is often the only real big on the floor. Tim is still an incredible shot blocker, especially for his age, but his athleticism has clearly declined and, as a team, we aren't nearly the shot blocking force we once were. Remember when we had Tim and Dave? It was simply unfair. We held NY under 80 three out of five games in 99, they even scored 67 once, thats unheard of in today's NBA. Nowadays we dont own the paint like we used to, and to be honest we barely have any above average one-on-one defenders. Hill, sure, but despite his length he doesnt have much size, and when was the last timewe really had Manu focus on shutting someone down? I'm sure he'll do more of that come playoff time but there's no doubt if we win it this year it will be with an entirely different formula. Our offensive evolution has been great, we still have the threes and the leagues premier one man fast break (Tony, the most underrated offensive force in the league), and if we get back to the level of halfcourt execution we were pulling off at the start of the season we should be damn near impossible to shut down. The OP was dead on, with this year's offense we're never out of a game, its all gonna come down to can we get the key stops? The end of that Boston game on March 31st was scary, lets hope thats an anomaly.

[DMC]

How much of our defensive lapse is intentional sacrifice for the sake of offense, and how much is just piss poor execution?

Also, when the Lakers gained Gasol, that seemed to drastically change the way the Western teams played. It's become less defensive on many fronts. I am guessing that's because few teams if any can beat the Lakers in a half court, grind it out game especially if their bigs get time to set up on both ends.

[Spurs Brazil]

Without Bowen, the Spurs would only have half the championships they have now.

True story.

Bruce was fantastic. During those 3 championship runs he had to guard Kobe, Finley, Nash, James, Melo, AI, Marion, Allen, Hamilton, Billups and he never let us down. And he also made a bunch of clutch 3s. For me the most memorable the one at Phoenix in game 5 of 2007 playoffs.

I don't know why his jersey isn't retired yet

[1Parker1]

And was Bowen's defense THAT good? LeBron's stats from the Finals: 14, 25, 25, and 24 points. 32-90 FG, 35.6%

You tell me.


Bowen sucked...Kobe would have allowed 31--90 FG, 34.4%


Bowen sucked...Bonner would have allowed 31--90 FG, 34.4%

:angel