Celtics-Knicks series thread

[Venti Quattro]

Probably the most intriguing East series tbh.

I got the Celts in 6.

[Sean Cagney]

Celts in 6.........

[Giuseppe]

I hope the Celtics massacre 'em.

[DJ Mbenga]

if shaq doesnt play knicks in 6. with that said shaq will celtics in 6, maybe 5 if there is a buzzer beater

[Jelloisjigglin]

I hope the Celtics massacre 'em.


Why bro? Laker fans should always want to see the Celtics fail, tbh.

[mavsfan1000]

The Knicks are horrible. Celtics in 5.

[rayjayjohnson]

I smell upset. Knicks in seven

[rayjayjohnson]

And if Boston has to do seven to move on to round 2, they are fucking done.

[Holden_Caulfield]

celtics sweep

[mystargtr34]

With Shaq.. Celtics in 5.

Without Shaq.. Celtics in 6 or 7.

[ogait]

Celtics in 5 or 6.
Slim to none chances for any first round upset in the eastern conference. Top 4 will all advance.

[lefty]

I think the NYK will be more dangerous than most people think.

Before the Melo trade, they were more of a running team, which is fine for the regular season

But in the playoffs, It will be more of a half-court game, which suits the new look NYK much better.

But again, the Celts have a good half-court D.

The key matchup will be at the PG position; Billups shpuld have the edge there.

[JamStone]

Healthy and right in the head, the Celtics "should" win in 4-5. But they're not right in the head. I think they're mentally and emotionally fragile right now. They should win pretty easily but something tells me it won't be easy for them. Without Shaq, it allows the Knicks to play Jeffries/Turiaf on KG and lets Amare not have to worry about KG. I think that's big for New York if that's the case.

As already mentioned, the PG match-up really does seem interesting. Billups should outscore Rondo but he can't stay in front of him. Could easily see Rondo scoring something like an easy 10-15 points on 4-for-5 or 5-for-7 type shooting and getting anywhere he wants to on the court and getting his 12+ assists with ease.

Rebounding will be key. Boston isn't a very good rebounding team anymore and the Knicks certainly aren't either. Both teams should be able to offensive rebound on each other pretty well.

Boston should win in 5. But I think they'll make it hard on themselves still emotionally reeling. And the Knicks will make things tough for them. Boston in 7.

[scampers]

The key matchup will be at the PG position; Billups shpuld have the edge there.

Billups is shit against quick PGs. Rondo will destroy him.

Boston is the better team I think in this series, even without Perkins. New York will still take a stab at it though.. Boston in 6.

[lefty]

Billups is shit against quick PGs. Rondo will destroy him.

Boston is the better team I think in this series, even without Perkins. New York will still take a stab at it though.. Boston in 6.
Yes he is too quick, but Billups can post him up and can shoot over him

[Kyle Orton]

When Billups shoots below 40% in this series, the Spurs fans who have been slobbing his cock (like they do every member of the 05 Pistons) saying his championship experience makes him the leader of the Knicks will have some 'splainin to do.

[scampers]

Yes he is too quick, but Billups can post him up and can shoot over him

This is true, Billups will be able to score on him, but TBH Rondo will cause more damage in the end. I've seen it happen all too often when Chauncey was a Piston.

[lefty]

When Billups shoots below 40% in this series, the Spurs fans who have been slobbing his cock (like they do every member of the 05 Pistons) saying his championship experience makes him the leader of the Knicks will have some 'splainin to do.
Actually, Billups seems to suck mostly in Conference Finals.
1st round, 2nd round, NBA Finals, he is fine, but for some reasons he sucks in the CF.


This is true, Billups will be able to score on him, but TBH Rondo will cause more damage in the end. I've seen it happen all too often when Chauncey was a Piston.
Yep, Rondo is a tough matchup for Billups, no question

[Kyle Orton]

Actually, Billups seems to suck mostly in Conference Finals.
1st round, 2nd round, NBA Finals, he is fine, but for some reasons he sucks in the CF.
He's a career 41.4% shooter in the playoffs. He sucks in the playoffs unless Larry Brown is coaching him.

[Venti Quattro]

There's no denying that Boston will take this imo. But if they get emo in the middle of the battlefield they will get killed

[jmanu20]

Celtics in 5, with or without Shaq.

Knicks play zero D and have no depth outside of Amare, Melo, and Chauncey. Either Amare or Melo will go off one game, which is the one game the Knicks will win.

This is probably the one EC opponent where the Celtics can get away without having any big man depth.

[JamStone]

When Billups shoots below 40% in this series, the Spurs fans who have been slobbing his cock (like they do every member of the 05 Pistons) saying his championship experience makes him the leader of the Knicks will have some 'splainin to do.

Billups has never been a high efficiency scorer. He shot 38% from the field in the 2004 playoffs on his way to the title and Finals MVP. His value has never really ever been measured by FG%. He shot nearly 45% from the field in the playoffs last year and the Nuggets lost in the first round. Not sure why you would use FG% as any measure whether Chauncey is playing well or helping his team when it has never really been the measure whether he has or was.

Now I would agree with your sentiment that Billups right now isn't going to help the Knicks beat the Celtics. But your reasoning and using FG% as evidence really doesn't make much sense. If Chauncey shoots under 40% but the Knicks win the series, people won't care about him shooting under 40%. When Chauncey was good, his strengths were controlling tempo, ball distribution (not necessarily getting assists but knowing where to get the ball and who had the hot hand and what match-ups to exploit), and hitting big shots (which is overstated and exaggerated but still relevant because his teams counted on him to hit big buckets when they needed it) in crunch time. When he was doing those things, it didn't matter if he shot under 40% or not.

Billups will probably get killed on defense by Rondo. And in D'Antoni's system, it's hard to take advantage of Chauncey's strengths because he's more of a halfcourt point guard. But his FG% is not one of the things you should look at, good or bad, whether he's playing well or not.

[LnGrrrR]

Celtics in 5, assuming Shaq comes back and Rondo stops playing like a retard.

[ElNono]

Boston in 5, 6 max... gives them some confidence but is not enough to avoid the 2nd round collapse...

[Booharv]

Billups has never been a high efficiency scorer. He shot 38% from the field in the 2004 playoffs on his way to the title and Finals MVP. His value has never really ever been measured by FG%. He shot nearly 45% from the field in the playoffs last year and the Nuggets lost in the first round. Not sure why you would use FG% as any measure whether Chauncey is playing well or helping his team when it has never really been the measure whether he has or was.

Now I would agree with your sentiment that Billups right now isn't going to help the Knicks beat the Celtics. But your reasoning and using FG% as evidence really doesn't make much sense. If Chauncey shoots under 40% but the Knicks win the series, people won't care about him shooting under 40%. When Chauncey was good, his strengths were controlling tempo, ball distribution (not necessarily getting assists but knowing where to get the ball and who had the hot hand and what match-ups to exploit), and hitting big shots (which is overstated and exaggerated but still relevant because his teams counted on him to hit big buckets when they needed it) in crunch time. When he was doing those things, it didn't matter if he shot under 40% or not.

Billups will probably get killed on defense by Rondo. And in D'Antoni's system, it's hard to take advantage of Chauncey's strengths because he's more of a halfcourt point guard. But his FG% is not one of the things you should look at, good or bad, whether he's playing well or not.

Dude, wtf are your talking about?

One advanced stat I like is TS%, its pretty basic and inarguable. Billups is the most efficient scorer in terms of point guards in the league because he gets so many fts and 3s and shoots so well from the line: http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/pg/sort/trueShootingPct Also D'Antoni told him that he could run whatever offense he wanted when he got there: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703899704576204843269778586.html

He's not that bad of a player at all. He also can guard bigger point guards and has the size to check some twos. When he was in Detroit, Hamilton would guard the 1s while he checked the 2s a lot of the time. Douglas is very good at chcking quick point guards, so he would guard Ray Allen. He gets crushed by small, quick point guards when he has to guard them though and he doesn't create for his teammates as much as in his Pistons years.

[Booharv]

Saying Billups is an inefficient scorer is like saying Jeter was a great fielder last year because he didn't commit many errors or that A-Rod was as good a hitter as Miguel Cabrera in 2010 because they had basically the same number of rbis.

[TDMVPDPOY]

celtics in 4

[duncan228]

Delonte West injured again, Shaq set for playoffs return (http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/04/12/delonte-west-injured-again-shaq-set-for-playoffs-return/)
Kurt Helin

Is there a M*A*S*H* unit that follows the Celtics around?

It just seems it would be cost efficient at this point. Boston picked up another injury Monday, but just one so it may be under their daily quota. This time it was Delonte West spraining his ankle, reports A. Sherrod Blakely at CSN New England (http://www.csnne.com/04/12/11/West-re-injures-ankle-no-timetable-on-re/landing_celtics.html?blockID=502213&feedID=4022).


Delonte West hurt his right ankle in the third quarter, the same ankle that sidelined him for a couple of weeks earlier this month.

“I was worried,” said coach Doc Rivers, who added that there’s no timetable for when West will return.

Don’t expect to see Wednesday for sure. Boston struggled for a stretch when Rajon Rondo got worn down because there was no quality backup for him. West was going to fix that, but it’s less of an issue heading into the playoffs when the minutes behind Rondo would be reduced anyway.

The bigger issue is Shaquille O’Neal. Boston needs him back — he has played just six minutes since Feb. 1 (he came back from an Achilles injury and it took six minutes to strain his calf). Danny Ainge told the Boston Globe Shaq will be back when the playoffs start. Promise.


“We’re planning as of right now of him practicing Thursday or Friday and being ready to play for Game 1 of the playoffs,” Ainge said. “I have every confidence that he will be ready and play in the playoffs.”

Is there anyone counting on Shaq, anyone who has bet bigger on him recently, than Ainge?

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/04/12/delonte-west-injured-again-shaq-set-for-playoffs-return/

[JamStone]

Dude, wtf are your talking about?

One advanced stat I like is TS%, its pretty basic and inarguable. Billups is the most efficient scorer in terms of point guards in the league because he gets so many fts and 3s and shoots so well from the line: http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/pg/sort/trueShootingPct Also D'Antoni told him that he could run whatever offense he wanted when he got there: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703899704576204843269778586.html

He's not that bad of a player at all. He also can guard bigger point guards and has the size to check some twos. When he was in Detroit, Hamilton would guard the 1s while he checked the 2s a lot of the time. Douglas is very good at chcking quick point guards, so he would guard Ray Allen. He gets crushed by small, quick point guards when he has to guard them though and he doesn't create for his teammates as much as in his Pistons years.

The measure first discussed was FG%. That's what I addressed. From the field, Chauncey isn't very efficient. He shoots a lot of jumpers, a lot of three pointers, which brings his FG% down. But even his two point field goal percentage is under 45% in both the regular season and playoffs. That's because he doesn't attack the basket much, and isn't a strong finisher anyway, and relies heavily on his jumper to score. Jumpshooters are less efficient than bigs and slashers obviously. Other than guys like Parker and Rondo, many point guards are jumpshooters and aren very efficient scorers.

Billups is a good three point shooter and is adepT at getting to the line where he's a great shooter as well. Look at TS% all you want, but the discussion started with FG% and that's what I responded to and that's what the inefficient comment was directed at. Chauncey still gets his points but he doesn't shoot efficiently from
the field.

[Kyle Orton]

(which is overstated and exaggerated but still relevant because his teams counted on him to hit big buckets when they needed it)

Chauncey's only hit the big shots his team needed when Larry Brown was the coach and Detroit scoring 15 points in the 4th quarter was enough because they'd hold the other team to 12.

Using FG% was the wrong argument, I'll admit, my overall point is that unless Larry Brown is coaching and micromanaging every single action Billups takes, he lacks poise and composure during playoff games and makes stupid decisions just like Amare and Melo do.

[Texas_Ranger]

Celts in 5

[Kyle Orton]

Also D'Antoni told him that he could run whatever offense he wanted when he got there

Yeah, that's worked out really well. They have a below .500 record with Billups running "whatever offense he wants" with 2 of the NBA's top 15 players at his disposal. That's a lot more of a reflection on D'antoni's stupidity than it is Billups classiness (or whatever other reason Spurfan loves him so much).

[Booharv]

Yeah, that's worked out really well. They have a below .500 record with Billups running "whatever offense he wants" with 2 of the NBA's top 15 players at his disposal. That's a lot more of a reflection on D'antoni's stupidity than it is Billups classiness (or whatever other reason Spurfan loves him so much).
That was just in response to Jamstone saying he wasn't effective in D'Antoni's offense.

I agree he has shit the bed countless times in the playoffs the last few years, his Mr. Big Shot rep is five years behind. When people were jerking off to him hitting a few clutch shots versus Miami this year like the last five years never happened I had to just immediately leave this site for that day since it was too retarded to bear. But because he hits a lot of threes and honestly has a lot of little bullshit moves/tricks he uses to draw fouls (which the refs fall for like every time), and shoots so well from the line, he's an efficient scorer over all. I hate watching him play personally because he spends half his time trying to draw fouls.

I meant to say Douglas would probably guard Rondo while Billups will guard Allen earlier.

[Kyle Orton]

One advanced stat I like is TS%

Jim O'Brien built his entire coaching philosophy around TS% and the idea that a 3 pointer with a 35% chance of going in is just as good as a 2 point FG with a 52.5% chance of going in. Then he was fired, and his replacement has the Pacers in the playoffs by putting an end to them chucking 30 threes a game.

TS% is an extremely flawed stat when discussing who can close games out and is clutch. TS% basically says midrange shots are the worst shots anyone can take, when the best closers in the NBA are the ones who have the best midrange game (Melo, Pierce, Kobe, Wade, etc.)

[Kyle Orton]

That was just in response to Jamstone saying he wasn't effective in D'Antoni's offense.

I agree he has shit the bed countless times in the playoffs the last few years, his Mr. Big Shot rep is five years behind. When people were jerking off to him hitting a few clutch shots versus Miami this year like the last five years never happened I had to just immediately leave this site for that day since it was too retarded to bear. But because he hits a lot of threes and honestly has a lot of little bullshit moves/tricks he uses to draw fouls (which the refs fall for like every time), and shoots so well from the line, he's an efficient scorer over all. I hate watching him play personally because he spends half his time trying to draw fouls.

Then we agree :tu, ignore my last post.

[JamStone]

Chauncey's only hit the big shots his team needed when Larry Brown was the coach and Detroit scoring 15 points in the 4th quarter was enough because they'd hold the other team to 12.

Common misconception. "Mr. Big Shot" was actually coined in the 2002-03 seasons in Rick Carlisle's last season with the Pistons when he hit about 4-5 game-winners. Even the following year in Larry Brown's first season with the Pistons, he made mentioned how Chauncey didn't make any game-winners for him.

The whole "Big Shot" nickname has been overblown. But, his "big shots" were not only in the fourth quarter, last 5 minutes of the game variety. At least in Detroit, he would make big shots in the second or third quarters to stop a run or to change momentum. Those are the types of shots often overlooked because most people only view crunchtime shots as "big shots." Billups did have an innate ability to make a big shot at a crucial time, whether or not it was in the clutch. That's what kept the nickname going, not game winners or buzzer beaters. Beyond that, Billups for those 5-6 seasons with the Pistons was a dead-eye free throw shooter to close the game.



Using FG% was the wrong argument, I'll admit, my overall point is that unless Larry Brown is coaching and micromanaging every single action Billups takes, he lacks poise and composure during playoff games and makes stupid decisions just like Amare and Melo do.

Yeah, FG% was certainly the wrong argument. I don't really disagree with your overall point, but I wouldn't say I completely agree with it either. Even in Detroit and even under Larry Brown, Chauncey had the tendency to take ill advised shots at times. Part of it was that he would look for momentum-gaining or momentum-switching shots. It would often be frustrating, obviously especially when he missed those shots. But fortune often favors the bold. If Chauncey didn't take those shots, he wouldn't have as many opportunities to switch momentum or be a hero. He'll make his share of dumb decisions. I wouldn't put him anywhere near that type of player to make a lot of stupid decisions like Melo or Amare.

To me, it's not about Chauncey's shooting or decision making that will hurt the Knicks in a playoff series. It's his inability to guard a player like Rondo. I think Rondo will shred Chauncey to bits. He was never a great defender, but at this point, I wouldn't be surprised if Rondo averaged 15 points and 15 assists on Chauncey and it will force an already weak team defense to collapse and get more exposed.

[Red Hawk #21]

I think the Knicks can beat the Celtics in 7. These aren't the same Celtics anymore, they're still a great team but I think if the Knicks can get hot they'll win.

[LnGrrrR]

Jim O'Brien built his entire coaching philosophy around TS% and the idea that a 3 pointer with a 35% chance of going in is just as good as a 2 point FG with a 52.5% chance of going in. Then he was fired, and his replacement has the Pacers in the playoffs by putting an end to them chucking 30 threes a game.

TS% is an extremely flawed stat when discussing who can close games out and is clutch. TS% basically says midrange shots are the worst shots anyone can take, when the best closers in the NBA are the ones who have the best midrange game (Melo, Pierce, Kobe, Wade, etc.)

All good points. Speaking of O'Brien...

Could there possibly have been a worse coach for Antoine than O'Brien? Antoine loved chucking threes, and O'Brien encouraged it. :bang

[crc21209]

Celtics in 6. New York will lose both games 1 and 2 in Boston, and then follow up with a win or even two at home in games 3 and 4. Melo will go off for one game that's for sure...35+ points.

[Daddy_Of_All_Trolls]

All I can say is it's New York against Boston, probably the best two city rivarly in all of American sports. Boston should win in 5, but I know the Knicks won at least 3 series against the Celtics without having home court; 1972, 1973, and 1990. Knicks should be better than the Celtics in a year or two, but not yet.

[Reck]

celtics sweep

LMAO. No way is this series going to be a sweep for the Celtics.

Have you being watching them play lately?? And dont give me the bullshit generic response that they were strugling last year too and went on a nice run.

Fact is the Celts are broken in more then just one way. They'll still win the series though.

[duncan228]

Shaquille O’Neal to miss Boston’s playoff opener (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=ap-celtics-onealout)
By Howard Ulman

Shaquille O’Neal will miss the Boston Celtics’ playoff opener against the New York Knicks with a right calf injury.

General manager Danny Ainge made the announcement during practice Saturday. O’Neal ran briefly before the workout but had to stop because of the pain.

O’Neal had missed 27 games with a sore right leg then returned on April 4 against Detroit. But he lasted just 5 minutes, 29 seconds before leaving again and has not played since.

Game 1 of the first-round Eastern Conference playoff series is Sunday night in Boston.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=ap-celtics-onealout

[LnGrrrR]

How much can I vbookie that Shaq won't play again this season?