The coming debt ceiling snit fit

[RandomGuy]

The GOP leadership is setting the stage for the next bit of kibuki theater.

Personally, I think the debt ceiling is one of those "sounds good on paper" ideas that is completely fucktarded in reality.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/freeexchange/2011/04/american_government_debt_2

Free Exchange blog at the Economist


YESTERDAY, a colleague at Democracy in America warned that a debt-ceiling fight could potentially raise America's borrowing costs, needlessly increasing the country's fiscal burden. I'm somewhat sceptical; as my colleague acknowledges, previous debt ceiling fights have not generated much of a move in bond markets. But Matt Yglesias finds evidence that Wall Street is prepared to punish Washington this time around:


House Speaker John Boehner has been reaching out to top Wall Street players asking how close Congress can get to the May 16th deadline (or July 8th drop-dead date) for raising the debt limit without seriously unnerving financial markets. The questioning is not going over well. “They don’t seem to understand that you can’t put everything back in the box. Once that fear of default is in the markets, it doesn’t just go away. We’ll be paying the price for years in higher rates,” said one executive. Boehner’s office last night would not confirm the conversations.

Of course, just two posts later Mr Yglesias writes:


Shannon Bond reports that JP Morgan Chase is winning the future and “reported a 67 per cent jump in first-quarter profit, as better performance of its credit card division offset losses from its troubled mortgage business.”
Recall that as recently as March 31, JP Morgan Chase CEO Jamie Dimon was warning us that the new Dodd-Frank bill would be “the nail in the coffin” for giant American banks.

Those lying dogs! So the question is: when can one trust what Wall Street folks are saying? And the answer is: sometimes. For my part, I look at current bond yields, which are very low, and think that if Wall Street were at all concerned it would be bidding in some risk premium.

Now, Mr Yglesias' broader point is that the fact that John Boehner cares whether a debt-ceiling battle impacts borrowing rates signals that his threat to not raise the ceiling isn't credible, and the Democrats should therefore refuse to negotiate. That seems clearly right to me. But that also suggests that debt-ceiling demagoguery, while annoying, is basically harmless.

Not that anybody will be surprised about this, or that it is particularly insightful to say that the current Tea Party Congress is not going to miss a chance to whine and complain for the target GOP primary crowd audience.

Wheeeeee!

[coyotes_geek]

Act 1 Scene 1: Republicans threaten to "shut it down" unless "real" cuts are made.

Act 1 Scene 2: Democrats toss out mean sounding words like "draconian".

Act 2 Scene 1: Republicans and democrats point fingers and call names and act like a bunch of 2nd graders until the deadline is imminent.

Act 2 Scene 2: At the last minute a deal is reached with republicans claiming "victory" over some token cuts that are made and democrats claiming "victory" over some token cuts that weren't made.

Act 3 Scene 1: Out of public view, democrats and republicans congradulate themselves on a job well done, having successfully kicked the can down the road beyond the next election.

Act 3 Scene 2: The debt monster gets his daily meal. The selling out of our children's future continues unabated.

Political theater at it's finest.

[Winehole23]

Synopsis for acts 4 and 5?

[boutons_deux]

Wall St doesn't want a debt-ceiling fight, and so there won't be one

Wall Street execs warn Boehner on debt ceiling brinksmanship

http://dyn.politico.com/printstory.cfm?uuid=5DEAEDB1-2DEA-4FF9-B224-895367B8BD58

[coyotes_geek]

Synopsis for acts 4 and 5?

There's an election in Act 4 and Act 5 looks a lot like Act 1.

[DarrinS]

"The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can’t pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies. … Increasing America’s debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that “the buck stops here.” Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better."


-Barack Hussein Obama, mmmm mmmm mmmm

[Wild Cobra]

Maybe they should stop buying new SUV's every year like us common people have to do.

I'm sure there are plenty of other government expenditures that can be rolled back as well. A million here and there by itself isn't much, but when you add up the thousands of budgets within budgets...

[Winehole23]

"The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can’t pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies. … Increasing America’s debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that “the buck stops here.” Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better."@DarrinS:

If Mike Pence or Jim DeMint had said the exact same thing you'd applaud it just as unthinkingly as you deride Obama.

[boutons_deux]

Barry was right then, because the Repugs tripled the debt under dubya, and not a wimper was heard from the Repugs.

Repug wars + defense spending, plus tax cuts for the super wealthy, and Medicare Advantage were all funded with debt.

Barry INHERITED as stinking pile of Banksters' Great Depression, 2 botched wars, and dubya debt. There is no choice, the debt ceiling has to rise.

[DarrinS]

If Mike Pence or Jim DeMint had said the exact same thing you applaud it as unthinkingly as you deride Obama for it.


I agree with his 2006 statement 100%. It's Obama, himself, that dervides his own 2006 opinion. Pay attention.

[Wild Cobra]

If Mike Pence or Jim DeMint had said the exact same thing you applaud it as unthinkingly as you deride Obama for it.
Me?

You're wrong.

Think about a common theme here in these forums. When there is a proposed cut or reduction from a conservative, they are laughed at because it isn't enough to do shit. Well, the point is that there are thousands upon thousands of little cuts that do add up big.

[Winehole23]

Obama derided himself how?

[Winehole23]

Me?Edited. @ DarrinS.

[LnGrrrR]

I agree with his 2006 statement 100%. It's Obama, himself, that dervides his own 2006 opinion. Pay attention.

I think it's fair to use Obama's quotes against him. DarrinS has *gasp* a point.

[Winehole23]

Never said it wasn't. Seems to me no less true now than then, even if Obama is now included in that judgment.

[LnGrrrR]

Never said it wasn't. Seems to me no less true now than then, even if Obama is now included in that judgment.

I think that was DarrinS' point, that Obama has shown a failure of leadership by allowing the debt to get to the point where the ceiling must be raised. As well, I'm sure Obama in the coming days will point out the necessity of a raised debt ceiling (ie. paying who we owe) without discussing the negatives as forcefully as he did in 2006.

[boutons_deux]

"Obama has shown a failure of leadership by allowing the debt to get to the point where the ceiling must be raised."

As if he caused the (Repug) debt and had the option of not paying the interest.

The debt isn't his, it's fully inherited from the Repugs, who inherited a budget surplus from Clinton.

I guess you think Barry caused gas to go up $4?

[ManuBalboa]

Maybe they should stop buying new SUV's every year like us common people have to do.

I'm sure there are plenty of other government expenditures that can be rolled back as well. A million here and there by itself isn't much, but when you add up the thousands of budgets within budgets...

Maybe they should quit pissing away monopoly money on bullshit wars and military industrial complex. Oh wait, phaggots like Hannity only talk tough fiscal game. Tea Party chumps only talk tough fiscal game then cry about crackheads killing their offspring. Entitlements this, taxes that...they are all just fanning the smoke and mirrors surface circus bullshit.

Debt ceiling: We know its fucked but everything will come crashing down if the ceiling is not raised at this point in time. We will do something about it right away!

Next time:We know its fucked but everything will come crashing down if the ceiling is not raised at this point in time. We will do something about it right away!


Next time:We know its fucked but everything will come crashing down if the ceiling is not raised at this point in time. We will do something about it right away!

Next time:We know its fucked but everything will come crashing down if the ceiling is not raised at this point in time. We will do something about it right away!

Next time:We know its fucked but everything will come crashing down if the ceiling is not raised at this point in time. We will do something about it right away!

Next time:We know its fucked but everything will come crashing down if the ceiling is not raised at this point in time. We will do something about it right away!

Next time:We know its fucked but everything will come crashing down if the ceiling is not raised at this point in time. We will do something about it right away!

Next time:We know its fucked but everything will come crashing down if the ceiling is not raised at this point in time. We will do something about it right away!

Next time:We know its fucked but everything will come crashing down if the ceiling is not raised at this point in time. We will do something about it right away!

Next time:We know its fucked but everything will come crashing down if the ceiling is not raised at this point in time. We will do something about it right away!

Next time:We know its fucked but everything will come crashing down if the ceiling is not raised at this point in time. We will do something about it right away!

Next time:We know its fucked but everything will come crashing down if the ceiling is not raised at this point in time. We will do something about it right away!

Next time:We know its fucked but everything will come crashing down if the ceiling is not raised at this point in time. We will do something about it right away!

Next time:We know its fucked but everything will come crashing down if the ceiling is not raised at this point in time. We will do something about it right away!

Next time:We know its fucked but everything will come crashing down if the ceiling is not raised at this point in time. We will do something about it right away!

Next time:We know its fucked but everything will come crashing down if the ceiling is not raised at this point in time. We will do something about it right away!

Next time:We know its fucked but everything will come crashing down if the ceiling is not raised at this point in time. We will do something about it right away!

Next time:We know its fucked but everything will come crashing down if the ceiling is not raised at this point in time. We will do something about it right away!

[EVAY]

"The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can’t pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies. … Increasing America’s debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that “the buck stops here.” Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better."


-Barack Hussein Obama, mmmm mmmm mmmm


What is the date of the quote? And what were Republicans saying at the time?

Why weren't they agreeing with him? Why did they wait until they were no longer in the WH to get concerned about raising the debt ceiling?

[RandomGuy]

Act 1 Scene 1: Republicans threaten to "shut it down" unless "real" cuts are made.

Act 1 Scene 2: Democrats toss out mean sounding words like "draconian".

Act 2 Scene 1: Republicans and democrats point fingers and call names and act like a bunch of 2nd graders until the deadline is imminent.

Act 2 Scene 2: At the last minute a deal is reached with republicans claiming "victory" over some token cuts that are made and democrats claiming "victory" over some token cuts that weren't made.

Act 3 Scene 1: Out of public view, democrats and republicans congradulate themselves on a job well done, having successfully kicked the can down the road beyond the next election.

Act 3 Scene 2: The debt monster gets his daily meal. The selling out of our children's future continues unabated.

Political theater at it's finest.

Pretty much.

I don't think there is anyone who doubts that the crisis will have to be much more acute before something *actually* gets done.

Hopefully Obama will take a bit more of a leadership role than he has so far.

[RandomGuy]

Act 1 Scene 1: Republicans threaten to "shut it down" unless "real" cuts are made.

Act 1 Scene 2: Democrats toss out mean sounding words like "draconian".

Act 2 Scene 1: Republicans and democrats point fingers and call names and act like a bunch of 2nd graders until the deadline is imminent.

Act 2 Scene 2: At the last minute a deal is reached with republicans claiming "victory" over some token cuts that are made and democrats claiming "victory" over some token cuts that weren't made.

Act 3 Scene 1: Out of public view, democrats and republicans congradulate themselves on a job well done, having successfully kicked the can down the road beyond the next election.

Act 3 Scene 2: The debt monster gets his daily meal. The selling out of our children's future continues unabated.

Political theater at it's finest.

Heh damn, you called it. 10 points for CG.

[RandomGuy]

Pretty much.

I don't think there is anyone who doubts that the crisis will have to be much more acute before something *actually* gets done.

Hopefully Obama will take a bit more of a leadership role than he has so far.

Looks like my hope was misplaced.

Yeah, put *that* in your siggy WC.

[Agloco]

Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better."


-Barack Hussein Obama, mmmm mmmm mmmm

Explain to me how that's different from the 60 years prior? Yet you'd blindly associate only one name with the trend. :lol

[RandomGuy]

wait so you think there should be no limit to the out of control spending?

Yes, there should be.

What there should not be is an irresponsible threat of default, when we fully have the ability to pay.

It was not because we have too much debt that made S&P pull the trigger. It was the poisonous politics surrounding the GOP extremists insistance on holding the process hostage.

Read their statement, it is quite... interesting.

One should not threaten to burn the house down if one is not happy with the dinner menu. There are other ways to go about it.

[boutons_deux]

"out of control spending"

huge revenue problem due to Repug tax cuts, Repug tax expenditures, Banksters' Great Depression.

excessive spending by Repug buildup of CIA/FBI/NSA/DHS (200K employees) and two botched, bogus wars without end.