Danny Green

[xellos88330]

Kid was looking pretty solid the past two games. Think this guy could fill the backup SF hole?

Thoughts?

[ElNono]

After spending a season getting over himself... maybe

[HarlemHeat37]

He didn't look solid at all vs. LA, he was actually pretty horrible..

[DMC]

Kid was looking pretty solid the past two games. Think this guy could fill the backup SF hole?

Thoughts?

He's got a lot of talent, but he's also got a lot of green. You never know though. He could be the next George Hill (remember when we were saying George could be the next someone?)

[slick'81]

hasnt shown me much too early to tell i guess

[spurs1990]

Pop doesn't have a good track record in developing and keeping talent.

See Stephen Jackson.

[jimo2305]

i liked what i saw out of green today..

[Obstructed_View]

Pop doesn't have a good track record in developing and keeping talent.

See Stephen Jackson.

Didn't Jack take less money to go to Atlanta?

[spurs1990]

I think you're right about Jackson. Maybe Derek Anderson is who I was thinking about.

[toki9]

Didn't Jack take less money to go to Atlanta?

But I think it was a 2 year deal, with opt out after 1st (Not positive about the opt out, though). Jack gambled and went for an audition deal after contract talks with the Spurs didn't work out. I imagine the Spurs wanted a longer term deal at lower overall dollar than Jack ended up getting in the market.

[Obstructed_View]

I think you're right about Jackson. Maybe Derek Anderson is who I was thinking about.

The Spurs sort of "lost" DA, but he got pissy because the Spurs were signing Robinson and attending Timmy's wedding. He was never worth a shit ever again, so it was a blessing in disguise. When he was on the news showing his big house and then crying the same day about how mean the Spurs were he showed that he wasn't Spurs material.

[Obstructed_View]

But I think it was a 2 year deal, with opt out after 1st (Not positive about the opt out, though). Jack gambled and went for an audition deal after contract talks with the Spurs didn't work out. I imagine the Spurs wanted a longer term deal at lower overall dollar than Jack ended up getting in the market.

Were there talks? I seem to remember that he jumped at the Atlanta deal almost immediately.

[toki9]

Were there talks? I seem to remember that he jumped at the Atlanta deal almost immediately.

Well, I get less and less certain about my memory with each passing day...early senility, I'm sure...but that's what I seem to recall...

[toki9]

The Spurs sort of "lost" DA, but he got pissy because the Spurs were signing Robinson and attending Timmy's wedding. He was never worth a shit ever again, so it was a blessing in disguise. When he was on the news showing his big house and then crying the same day about how mean the Spurs were he showed that he wasn't Spurs material.

DA was such a whiny baby...and purportedly he was all about "loyalty" or something like that...

[Obstructed_View]

Well, I get less and less certain about my memory with each passing day...early senility, I'm sure...but that's what I seem to recall...

I completely sympathize. Revisionists on Spurstalk don't help me in matters like this, but I remember being really surprised at Jack and his agent when they made the decision to go to the Hawks. In Pop's defense, I don't know that I would want a guy who would refuse to sign a three or four year deal because he would rather showcase himself on a losing team. Jack, for all his obvious talent, has made a difference nowhere he's been since he left the Spurs.

[wontstartdumbthreads]

I completely sympathize. Revisionists on Spurstalk don't help me in matters like this, but I remember being really surprised at Jack and his agent when they made the decision to go to the Hawks. In Pop's defense, I don't know that I would want a guy who would refuse to sign a three or four year deal because he would rather showcase himself on a losing team. Jack, for all his obvious talent, has made a difference nowhere he's been since he left the Spurs.

Except when he was an integral part of the Warriors taking out the Mavs.

[Obstructed_View]

Except when he was an integral part of the Warriors taking out the Mavs.

He was good with the Warriors, but difference maker? That team was loaded with Mav killers. Davis and Richardson and Harrington and Barnes (sorry the names popped into my head one at a time) were all at least as valuable if memory serves.

And let's be realistic: The Warriors got steamrolled by the Jazz after that, so you can't really argue that you're a difference maker on a team that wins a single playoff series.

[wontstartdumbthreads]

He was good with the Warriors, but difference maker? That team was loaded with Mav killers. Davis and Richardson and Harrington and Barnes (sorry the names popped into my head one at a time) were all at least as valuable if memory serves.

I agree. They were all important that series. But I think Jax was near the top in his defense of Dirk and hitting some big shots. But it's been awhile. In any event, it's always heartwarming to remember my favorite non Spurs basketball moment.

[wontstartdumbthreads]

He was good with the Warriors, but difference maker? That team was loaded with Mav killers. Davis and Richardson and Harrington and Barnes (sorry the names popped into my head one at a time) were all at least as valuable if memory serves.

And let's be realistic: The Warriors got steamrolled by the Jazz after that, so you can't really argue that you're a difference maker on a team that wins a single playoff series.

TBH, I totally forgot what happened to them after the Mavs series. You make a good point.

[SenorSpur]

Green looked awfully good versus the Suns. Honestly, I enjoy watching his all-around game much more than watching RJ. I'm anxious to see if he can keep it up. Of course, I wouldn't expect to see much of Green in theses playoffs. However it is interesting that he seemingly moved ahead of Anderson, late in the year.

[bigdog]

I've liked Green since the first time he was with the Spurs. He shoots the ball well, and he hustles. Sure, he has a lot to work on, but it says something when a team resigns you after releasing you earlier in the season. He won't see much, if any time in the playoffs, but I hope he's in camp fighting for a job.

[TE]

Green looks to be a player who seems to be at the right place at the right time. Can't say the same about RJ...He's has really regressed.

[mountainballer]

Green has some Raja Bell potential. Spurs should take care this time.

[Fireball]

I liked what I saw although Green imitated RJ a little too much by shooting too many threes instead being aggressive. I see potential ... especially on the defensive side.

[Texas_Ranger]

He didn't shoot the ball well against the Lakers but I like him. He's very athletic and he could help us. I hope he stays.

[Capt Bringdown]

Green looked awfully good versus the Suns. Honestly, I enjoy watching his all-around game much more than watching RJ. I'm anxious to see if he can keep it up. Of course, I wouldn't expect to see much of Green in theses playoffs. However it is interesting that he seemingly moved ahead of Anderson, late in the year.

Green does look much more promising than Anderson.

[rmt]

He was good with the Warriors, but difference maker? That team was loaded with Mav killers. Davis and Richardson and Harrington and Barnes (sorry the names popped into my head one at a time) were all at least as valuable if memory serves.

And let's be realistic: The Warriors got steamrolled by the Jazz after that, so you can't really argue that you're a difference maker on a team that wins a single playoff series.

Jackson did an excellent job guarding Dirk (which is something the Spurs have always had a problem with). GSW defeating DAL cleared the way for SA to win a 4th championship. SA probably would not have beaten DAL (67 wins) that year.

[Obstructed_View]

Jackson did an excellent job guarding Dirk (which is something the Spurs have always had a problem with). GSW defeating DAL cleared the way for SA to win a 4th championship. SA probably would not have beaten DAL (67 wins) that year.

That's very true. He was as much a difference maker for GS as he was for the Spurs. I certainly would love to have kept him.

[spursince#99]

this dude is horrible and really showed how horrible he was in the lakers game...kid nearly blew it...

[romad_20]

this dude is horrible and really showed how horrible he was in the lakers game...kid nearly blew it...

? I think he's looked pretty good. Good 3 stroke, aggresive, pretty long. What did he nearly blow? There was nothing to lose.

[hater]

Green did better than Anderson. Anderson blows.

[Obstructed_View]

Anderson just ran out of time to be able to help this year. He looked good against Kobe. Kid looks like an NBA player to me.

[The Truth #6]

Were there talks? I seem to remember that he jumped at the Atlanta deal almost immediately.

I remember fairly specifically that the Spurs offered Jack a 3 year deal worth about 2-3 million/year. Jack wanted more but didn't get any other better offers around the league. While Jack's agent was shopping the Spurs moved on and had their eyes set on the Turkish Magic Johnson, aka Hedo Turkoglu. Around this time Jack came back to the Spurs and wanted to take their initial offer but that offer was off the table at that point. Jack's agent then cooked up a one year deal for him in Atlanta for 1 million for one year. Jack scored a lot of points, like 3 consecutive games with 40 points and then got a huge contract with the Pacers...

So, if the Spurs didn't want to pursue Hedo they could have had Jack at their initial offer.

[CGD]

Lockout aside, I'm really excited to see Anderson/Green/Butler this off-season. I think Anderson has the highest ceiling, but Green (UNC) and Butler (Big East) have excellent pedigrees.

[jjktkk]

Some really nice sf prospects in Anderson, Butler, and Green.

[Bruno]

If Manu is out for one or more games, Green will play some minutes. He should be the perimeter player behind Parker, Ginobili, Jefferson, Neal and Hill for the playoffs. When everyone is healthy, I can see Pop using for a defensive possession at the end of quarters. Foul troubles situations could also allow him to get some minutes.

Long term wise, James Anderson and to a lesser extent Da'Sean Butler look more promising.

[DPG21920]

Green has some Raja Bell potential. Spurs should take care this time.

Very good comparison. Also, hope to see you posting more in the playoffs!

I like Danny. He has some very good tools and he doesn't really play scared. It's rare that you see someone come in and produce in his situation.

His 3PT shot looks decent. It's not fair to say he didn't look good vs LA. He was playing as a main guy against their best guys. He is a role player, much like Bell, that has potential to fill a void if you surround him with good players.

[DPG21920]

Green did better than Anderson. Anderson blows.

That is not fair.


Anderson just ran out of time to be able to help this year. He looked good against Kobe. Kid looks like an NBA player to me.

I agree. His defense (credit to those posters like OHM that saw it early) is much better than I thought it could be. He gets solid blocks. Not help blocks, but one on one defensive blocks. He is strong and pretty athletic.

He was playing exceptional before the injury. The thing with James is he really falls off when he is out of shape. I have never seen someone look so different from when they are in shape vs out of shape. Most guys still look ok, he totally falls off.

He makes good moves to the rim, but he can't finish right now because his legs are gone. He looks promising on both ends.

[DMC]

RJ is in a slump. It's been what, a few years now?

[pgardn]

Pop would have eventually killed Jackson. The guy was good for us but also out of control. He took some awful shots during some of those playoff games and Pops veins emerged. Way too inconsistent and clearly lacked composure when things got tough. When he was good, he was great. When he was bad, he brought others down also. Glad he left.

[tmtcsc]

I think he's done pretty well.

[spurs1990]

I remember fairly specifically that the Spurs offered Jack a 3 year deal worth about 2-3 million/year. Jack wanted more but didn't get any other better offers around the league. While Jack's agent was shopping the Spurs moved on and had their eyes set on the Turkish Magic Johnson, aka Hedo Turkoglu. Around this time Jack came back to the Spurs and wanted to take their initial offer but that offer was off the table at that point. Jack's agent then cooked up a one year deal for him in Atlanta for 1 million for one year. Jack scored a lot of points, like 3 consecutive games with 40 points and then got a huge contract with the Pacers...

So, if the Spurs didn't want to pursue Hedo they could have had Jack at their initial offer.

You know that summer is coming back to me. They had a shitload of moolah to spend after DRob left, and were courting Kidd from Jersey. After that fell through, they spent their wad on the likes of Rasho and Hedo and Ron Mercer and Bob Horry.

Fuck man that team was in the midst of their golden run...shoulda woulda coulda won it the next year and the next and the next....

[Obstructed_View]

I remember fairly specifically that the Spurs offered Jack a 3 year deal worth about 2-3 million/year. Jack wanted more but didn't get any other better offers around the league. While Jack's agent was shopping the Spurs moved on and had their eyes set on the Turkish Magic Johnson, aka Hedo Turkoglu. Around this time Jack came back to the Spurs and wanted to take their initial offer but that offer was off the table at that point. Jack's agent then cooked up a one year deal for him in Atlanta for 1 million for one year. Jack scored a lot of points, like 3 consecutive games with 40 points and then got a huge contract with the Pacers...

So, if the Spurs didn't want to pursue Hedo they could have had Jack at their initial offer.

I didn't remember that the Spurs withdrew the offer. If they actually did that when they hadn't actually signed Hedo yet then that's sort of dopey. I'd look at ST from that time but the search function makes me want to kill.

[Bill_Brasky]

Pop would have eventually killed Jackson. The guy was good for us but also out of control. He took some awful shots during some of those playoff games and Pops veins emerged. Way too inconsistent and clearly lacked composure when things got tough. When he was good, he was great. When he was bad, he brought others down also. Glad he left.

Jack was one of the key reasons we won it all in 03. He had a pretty flawless playoffs on both sides of the ball, and we coulda done it again the next year if he stayed.

03 was definitely our best team.

[TDMVPDPOY]

had we signed jackson, we be talkin about 5-6 straight rings...:(

[TDMVPDPOY]

Jackson did an excellent job guarding Dirk (which is something the Spurs have always had a problem with). GSW defeating DAL cleared the way for SA to win a 4th championship. SA probably would not have beaten DAL (67 wins) that year.

look what happen when gsw traded jax, they were out of the playoffs, jax on the bobcats made them appear in the playoffs once, and now back to mediocre due wallace getting traded and other shit

imo jax still has game but not at that price his on...


now back to the 3 young players, i think anderson is good, but his gettin beat out by neal for minutes...i wish the spurs had no resign rj this season, it was a waste of money and he did shit all this season....gary neal if we can find anothre needle in a haystack like him...we stacked yo

[Mel_13]

I remember fairly specifically that the Spurs offered Jack a 3 year deal worth about 2-3 million/year. Jack wanted more but didn't get any other better offers around the league. While Jack's agent was shopping the Spurs moved on and had their eyes set on the Turkish Magic Johnson, aka Hedo Turkoglu. Around this time Jack came back to the Spurs and wanted to take their initial offer but that offer was off the table at that point. Jack's agent then cooked up a one year deal for him in Atlanta for 1 million for one year. Jack scored a lot of points, like 3 consecutive games with 40 points and then got a huge contract with the Pacers...

So, if the Spurs didn't want to pursue Hedo they could have had Jack at their initial offer.

No.

So what did Jackson and his agent, Dan Fegan, do? They decided that the offer to Jackson, who committed an astounding 26 turnovers in the Finals, was an insult. They did not return phone calls or answer e-mails from general manager R.C. Buford and coach Gregg Popovich. They chose to sit and wait for better deals from other teams, then watched uncomfortably as other free-agent swingmen got the offers. They squirmed when the Spurs traded for two players at Jackson's position, Ron Mercer and Hedo Turkoglu. Then they signed a two-year, $2.2 million contract with the lowly Hawks.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1030223/index.htm

[Budkin]

had we signed jackson, we be talkin about 5-6 straight rings...:(

I still don't understand how that relationship fell apart... he was coming off winning a title with us. I think his head just got too big and he pissed off Pop and RC by demanding more than they were willing to pay. Didn't it go something like that?

[TDMVPDPOY]

signin ron mercer and hedo who didnt do shit all for us...

hedo bolted the following the season...fck that shit we went back to square one without a prominent 2 way SF besides the defensive specialist bowen...

[TDMVPDPOY]

signin ron mercer and hedo who didnt do shit all for us...

hedo bolted the following the season...fck that shit we went back to square one without a prominent 2 way SF besides the defensive specialist bowen...

[Mel_13]

signin ron mercer and hedo who didnt do shit all for us...

hedo bolted the following the season...fck that shit we went back to square one without a prominent 2 way SF besides the defensive specialist bowen...

They got Hedo and Mercer in a trade for nothing AFTER Jackson and his agent refused to deal with the Spurs.

Jackson's departure from San Antonio is all on him.

[Hoops Czar]

I completely sympathize. Revisionists on Spurstalk don't help me in matters like this, but I remember being really surprised at Jack and his agent when they made the decision to go to the Hawks. In Pop's defense, I don't know that I would want a guy who would refuse to sign a three or four year deal because he would rather showcase himself on a losing team. Jack, for all his obvious talent, has made a difference nowhere he's been since he left the Spurs.

He signed with Atlanta because the Spurs never offered him squat. They passed it off as his bad attitude or his disruptive nature that made them weary of resigning him. It was really about the money. The Spurs thought they could win without him even though he was instrumental down the stretch and in the post season en route to the championship.

Small market teams need to cut corners wherever they can. It was piss-poor move by the organization and they did it again years later with Scola.

[jimo2305]

wierd.. the way i heard it was sjax wanted more money and spurs couldn't offer more and it was sjax that held out too long.. making the spurs fill their void with mercer and turkoglu.. sjax then took a lower offer with atl

[Mel_13]

He signed with Atlanta because the Spurs never offered him squat. They passed it off as his bad attitude or his disruptive nature that made them weary of resigning him. It was really about the money. The Spurs thought they could win without him even though he was instrumental down the stretch and in the post season en route to the championship.

Small market teams need to cut corners wherever they can. It was piss-poor move by the organization and they did it again years later with Scola.

Revisionist history. See the SI article from 2003.

[The Truth #6]

Revisionist history. See the SI article from 2003.

Your SI article doesn't tell the whole story. I still remember Jackson coming back to the Spurs to accept their initial offer, which the article doesn't mention. And the article has a bias against Jackson by solely mentioning his turnovers, while discounting the huge clutch shots he made throughout Game 6 of almost every round of that playoffs. Yeah, he screwed up in that he trusted a high powered agent. But in the end the agent was right, Jack was being undervalued. His big contract after Atlanta shows that he was worth more money in the end.

[Mel_13]

Your SI article doesn't tell the whole story. I still remember Jackson coming back to the Spurs to accept their initial offer, which the article doesn't mention. And the article has a bias against Jackson by solely mentioning his turnovers, while discounting the huge clutch shots he made throughout Game 6 of almost every round of that playoffs. Yeah, he screwed up in that he trusted a high powered agent. But in the end the agent was right, Jack was being undervalued. His big contract after Atlanta shows that he was worth more money in the end.

If he came back to the Spurs, it was after the trade for Hedo and Mercer and after his agent failed to secure a deal from any other team in the NBA. They should have presented a counteroffer to the initial offer from the Spurs. They played hardball and they lost.

In the end, the agent was wrong. Jackson would have played with a contender for many years (over the years he has been frequently quoted as wanting exactly that) and he would have done as well or better financially over the remainder of his NBA career.

[DesignatedT]

who gives a fuck about stephen jackson. that shit was like 8 years ago.

[Mel_13]

who gives a fuck about stephen jackson. that shit was like 8 years ago.

:lol

Just mythbusting..

[jimo2305]

who gives a fuck about stephen jackson. that shit was like 8 years ago.

great.. i feel old now lol

[The Truth #6]

If he came back to the Spurs, it was after the trade for Hedo and Mercer and after his agent failed to secure a deal from any other team in the NBA. They should have presented a counteroffer to the initial offer from the Spurs. They played hardball and they lost.

In the end, the agent was wrong. Jackson would have played with a contender for many years (over the years he has been frequently quoted as wanting exactly that) and he would have done as well or better financially over the remainder of his NBA career.

I agree the agent lost. But it's unclear what Pop's intentions were at that time. To me we'll never really know what happens behind closed doors, just in the same way we don't know what happened behind the scenes with Scola.

No, the agent was not wrong from his perspective. A year later his client was signing a large contract, larger then what he probably inititally thought possible when playing hardball with the Spurs.

I don't know why you think you're "mythbusting". If anything you're supplying a limited interpretation and assuming it's the full story, when in fact the story is more complex then you suggest.

[Mel_13]

I agree the agent lost. But it's unclear what Pop's intentions were at that time. To me we'll never really know what happens behind closed doors, just in the same way we don't know what happened behind the scenes with Scola.

True that we'll never all the details, but the notion that some (not you) perpetuate that "the Spurs let Jackson walk" is just a myth.


No, the agent was not wrong from his perspective. A year later his client was signing a large contract, larger then what he probably inititally thought possible when playing hardball with the Spurs.

He was wrong if we are to believe the rest of the Jackson myth:

1. The Spurs would have won more titles with Jackson than they did otherwise.

2. Jackson's long history of bad behavior since leaving the Spurs would never have happened if he had stayed with the Spurs.

If those two things are to be believed, then Jackson would have been much better off accepting a 3 year deal from the Spurs in 2003 than a 6 year deal from the Pacers in 2004.


I don't know why you think you're "mythbusting". If anything you're supplying a limited interpretation and assuming it's the full story, when in fact the story is more complex then you suggest.

See above. The Spurs didn't "let Jackson walk". Jackson walked and the Spurs moved on.

[The Truth #6]

I won't claim to know the extent of the "Jackson Myth" that is spread around. I doubt most people could even agree on what it entails.

My only issue was with how he departed. Again, I think it was complicated in that Jackson's side wanted more money and the Spurs had little interest in offering more than their initial offer. High profile agents typically want too much and the Spurs typically low ball. I think most people could agree with that assessment.

They both played hardball in my opinion and they both lost in the short term. In the longterm they both succeeded in that the Spurs won two more titles and Jackson got his big contract.

(And, I do appreciate his efforts in helping defeat the Mavs in 2007. That definitely was a help in the Spurs having an easier path to the Finals.)

[SenorSpur]

This supposed Danny Green thread has really gone sideways.

[Mel_13]

I won't claim to know the extent of the "Jackson Myth" that is spread around. I doubt most people could even agree on what it entails.

My only issue was with how he departed. Again, I think it was complicated in that Jackson's side wanted more money and the Spurs had little interest in offering more than their initial offer. High profile agents typically want too much and the Spurs typically low ball. I think most people could agree with that assessment.

They both played hardball in my opinion and they both lost in the short term. In the longterm they both succeeded in that the Spurs won two more titles and Jackson got his big contract.

(And, I do appreciate his efforts in helping defeat the Mavs in 2007. That definitely was a help in the Spurs having an easier path to the Finals.)

We'll have to agree to disagree. We're looking at the same events and coming to different conclusions. That's fine.

In any event, I wasn't referring to anything you said as a myth. I responded to your post to present the correct timeline regarding the Hedo trade.

[TE]

This supposed Danny Green thread has really gone sideways.
Yep, to the extent that it is front page worthy right before the playoffs. :bang

[Obstructed_View]

Your SI article doesn't tell the whole story. I still remember Jackson coming back to the Spurs to accept their initial offer, which the article doesn't mention. And the article has a bias against Jackson by solely mentioning his turnovers, while discounting the huge clutch shots he made throughout Game 6 of almost every round of that playoffs. Yeah, he screwed up in that he trusted a high powered agent. But in the end the agent was right, Jack was being undervalued. His big contract after Atlanta shows that he was worth more money in the end.


Shortly after he hit three key fourth-quarter three-pointers in a decisive Game 6 of the Finals, he received a three-year, $9 million free-agent contract offer from San Antonio.

Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1030223/index.htm#ixzz1JcwDAujm

I find your name ironic.

[DMC]

We knew Green had potential.

[Johnny RIngo]

To me we'll never really know what happens behind closed doors, just in the same way we don't know what happened behind the scenes with Scola.

I thought it was pretty apparent that Spurs were being cheap.

[Sean Cagney]

We knew Green had potential.

Last year you could see some! I did not know he would start out like this though in his first few games since Manu out. That kid can jump as well, that last block (Foul one) was just sick. Danny I hope can keep this up or even near it.

[daslicer]

He has shown a lot of improvement since college which is amazing because I didn't think he had the ability to get better. I give him a lot of credit at working hard to improve his game.

[xellos88330]

Kid must have done some work. I still am not sure if he will be able to guard the bigger SF's ala Durant/Anthony, but I would say he earned the chance to try.

My favorite thing about watching Green perform like he is, is that he is contributing to both ends of the court. That was something the Spurs have sorely missed. He isn't just a defensive specialist, or offensive specialist and makes it easier to get him some more playing time. Props to Pop for recognizing and letting Green prove himself. Kid is impressing.

[Borosai]

Green is looking very comfortable out there. He's shooting well, attacking the basket, and making an impact on defense. At the moment he's not a liability in any way, and that's huge.

[swaggerjackson]

I like green and admittedly I haven't seen a whole bunch of him with the spurs (missed the Denver game) but I have seen alot of him at UNC and it seems his ball handling is a major weakness. I think he is a good player and one we should hang on to (Raja Bell is a nice comparison) but he is by no means our savior. Keep manu. If he continues to play this well I would talk about moving anderson or neal but never manu