Pop's Decision to Play the Starters

[timvp]

I can't fault the strategy. The strategy made sense heading into the Lakers game … and it makes sense to me now. Obviously, the Manu injury was about the worst possible outcome but it was, even with hindsight, a risk worth taking.

First, even though Pop would never admit it, there was a smidgen of value in having the best record in the league. Yes, the chances aren't great for a Spurs vs. Bulls meeting in the NBA Finals, however having a shot at home-court advantage in such a scenario shouldn't be totally discounted.

But most importantly, the Spurs starters needed the extra work. The last quality win this team put together was almost a month ago against Dallas. If the Spurs had been rolling to the finish line with rhythm and confidence, punting the final two games of the season would have been the right move. Unfortunately, that was simply not the case. In theory, letting the starters break a sweat and try to regain their edge held a lot of value.

Pop is going to be second-guessed, and he has to be kicking himself every time he looks over and sees Manu's arm in a sling, but the logic was sound. Now the most important thing is for the team to overcome the awkward end to an otherwise fantastic regular season. Although it's not the way you want to do it, it's very possible to find a groove and get healthy within a playoff run -- just look at the Lakers and Celtics last season.

Hope Manu's MRI comes back clean. Get in a few good practices. Put on the hardhats for what promises to be a very physical series against the Grizzlies. And let's get this ish started.

[Obstructed_View]

If the goal was winning the game, then I don't understand the decision to pull Duncan and Parker down three with seven minutes to go. If the goal was to get the starters some rhythm, I don't understand the decision to sit them against the Lakers instead of just limiting minutes for both games.

Pop is second guessed because he doesn't do anything that normal basketball coaches do for the playoffs. The rotation is in shambles largely because of his decisions, not because of injuries. I'm certainly not going to blame him for the Ginobili injury, but he's cost the team quite a bit in the last few nights and has little to show for it. The good news: Duncan's going to be pretty fresh, and the team is mostly healthy, really deep and has a bunch of guys that can contribute.

Bottom line: None of this means anything if the RJ of November/December doesn't show up soon.

[spursbird]

Official timvp is back thread

[DesignatedT]

Very much agree.

[Obstructed_View]

And welcome back, LJ. Nice to see you.

[polandprzem]

Official timvp is back thread

nope


He showed up for the Boston game and then disappear



Pop must to be really confident when he pulled starters with 7 minutes to go.

[mytespurs]

In the various "chicken little-sky is falling threads" that have permeated the spurs forum, the breath of fresh air that arrives is timvp, the voicce of calm and reason.

I understand what Pop did but losing these last 2 games though meaningless, manu's elbow in a sling and a date with the grizzlies doesn't exactly give me a lot of confidence. :depressed

[TE]

No, it wasn't a good idea to bring the starters back. Does allowing the starters to build some rhythm for the PO's outweigh the idea of them being injured going into the said PO?

No, it doesn't.


In order to tackle this question, you got to think what was best for the Spurs.


I think health is better than overall HCA in this case.

[Mugen]

I though it was a dumb risk by Pop that he did not have to take.

If HC in the Finals meant so much to Pop then he would have played them in the Laker game and he wouldn't have pulled Timmy in the end while keeping TP/Dice out of the 4th.

The "rust" argument makes sense if we aren't talking about 3 guys who've played in countless big games in their career and are accustomed to what the playoff basketball is all about. They aren't suddenly going to turn to a bunch of novices even if they've sat for a week. Even if they are rusty going into Game 1, do you really think that they can't pull out a ugly victory against a 8th seed?

Pop is scared of the Lakers so he tanked that game to avoid them as much as possible.

He got too smart for his own good and it blew up in his face.

Welcome back again, timVP. Hopefully you're around much more for the playoffs.

[ElNono]

We should have played the Lakeshow with the starters... And also this game. Pop not only sent Phil the memo of how much he's scared of him, but also threw away this game when it was still winnable. To top it off, all his season-long micromanagement blew up in his face when Manu went down in the last game of the season. It's water under the bridge now though.

I really hope Manu is ok, and he can come back and contribute, because guys like TD, Dice, TP and Neal busted their asses all season long to get shortchanged now.

I like our chances against MEM. We should have enough even if we miss Manu 3 or 4 games.

[Yorae]

I hope we sweep memphis because it seems nobody sees the spurs as a threat anymore....the record withstanding...

[timvp]

If the goal was winning the game, then I don't understand the decision to pull Duncan and Parker down three with seven minutes to go.I don't think the goal was to necessarily win the game. As I saw it, a side effect of playing the starters minutes against the Suns would be to increase the odds of winning.


If the goal was to get the starters some rhythm, I don't understand the decision to sit them against the Lakers instead of just limiting minutes for both games. Allowing the starters, namely Tim Duncan, to play in back-to-back games this late in the season without much to play for would have been too risky. We've seen Pop try to limit TD's minutes in back-to-backs -- even that wacky game where he brought Duncan off the bench against the Raptors last season in the second night -- and it doesn't seem to help matters.

Picking one night to play makes sense to me. Picking the easier team also makes sense because the Spurs needed to win one of the final two games to force that coin flip.


Pop is second guessed because he doesn't do anything that normal basketball coaches do for the playoffs. The rotation is in shambles largely because of his decisions, not because of injuries.This is shifting to a new subject but the rotation appears straight forward to me heading into the playoffs.


And welcome back, LJ. Nice to see you.

:toast


nope


He showed up for the Boston game and then disappearDon't forget to get new batteries for the GPS device before the playoffs start :tu


Does allowing the starters to build some rhythm for the PO's outweigh the idea of them being injured going into the said PO?

No, it doesn't.I disagree. With that logic, the Spurs should have punted their final four or five games of the season after it was apparent they weren't getting caught in the West.

And again, finding a rhythm for this team is more important than it may appear on paper because it's been so long since they've had a quality win. Add previous injuries to the mix and the reward of getting a good run in tonight's game was worth the risk of a fluke injury, at least IMO.


I though it was a dumb risk by Pop that he did not have to take.

If HC in the Finals meant so much to Pop then he would have played them in the Laker game and he wouldn't have pulled Timmy in the end while keeping TP/Dice out of the 4th.I'm not arguing that HCA was the main carrot. If Pop played starters in the last game of the season to simply attempt to force a coin flip against an Eastern Conference team who probably has about a 40% chance at best to reach the Finals, I'd be the first person calling him out.


The "rust" argument makes sense if we aren't talking about 3 guys who've played in countless big games in their career and are accustomed to what the playoff basketball is all about. They aren't suddenly going to turn to a bunch of novices even if they've sat for a week. Even if they are rusty going into Game 1, do you really think that they can't pull out a ugly victory against a 8th seed? I see where you are coming from but these are odd circumstances. It's more than just typical rust. A month between a quality win and the start of the playoffs is a long time. Plus Duncan needed to regain confidence on his ankle ... same with Ginobili and his quad. A solid run tonight by the starters could have been helpful going into the playoffs ... for confidence sake team-wise and individually.


He got too smart for his own good and it blew up in his face.It definitely blew up in his face ... can't deny that.

[vander]

:lol

Pop should have played everyone against LA, and maybe rested TD against Phoenix, A win against LA would have actually accomplished something, and the spurs could have beaten Phoenix shorthanded.

it's quite hilarious to see people here twisting themselves in knots trying to defend Pop

If we even make it to the WCF, LA gonna be nice and rested after their 5 game beat down of Dallas or Portland since that series probably goes 7 tough games.

:lol Pop could have given LA Portland in round 1 and no HCA in round 2
:rollin:rollin:rollin:rollin:rollin

[Bruno]

timvp is doing his Horry. Coasting during the regular season to show up for the playoffs.

[polandprzem]

Don't forget to get new batteries for the GPS device before the playoffs start

I'm always there

[DPG21920]

The logic sucked and there is no silver lining in the Manu injury and no one owns a Bonner jersey. Nice to see you again though.

[Giuseppe]

The logic sucked and there is no silver lining in the Manu injury

Deepy, breakin' his truth cherry. Good for you, daddy-O.

[Brazil]

The logic sucked and there is no silver lining in the Manu injury and no one owns a Bonner jersey. Nice to see you again though.

I knew dpg wouldn't like this thread

[stealthjbravo]

:lol

Pop should have played everyone against LA, and maybe rested TD against Phoenix, A win against LA would have actually accomplished something, and the spurs could have beaten Phoenix shorthanded.

it's quite hilarious to see people here twisting themselves in knots trying to defend Pop

If we even make it to the WCF, LA gonna be nice and rested after their 5 game beat down of Dallas or Portland since that series probably goes 7 tough games.

:lol Pop could have given LA Portland in round 1 and no HCA in round 2
:rollin:rollin:rollin:rollin:rollin

+1

Fuck Pop :toast

[jag]

At this point, if you can't play your stars a few minutes the last game of the season to keep them sharp for the playoffs then your team is too fragile to make a worthwhile playoff run anyway. The playoffs are going to be much more physical than the Suns game.
Pop has done a good job balancing minutes while also keeping the guys sharp. I like the idea of Pop sending our guys into the playoffs without a week-long layoff.

Injuries happen, but you can't be afraid to play your guys 4 days before the playoffs start.

[dunkman]

It was flip-flop strategy. The Spurs should have rested the last two games as they usually do, if the HCA against the Bulls meant nothing.

I guess they probably received a call from Stern . . . because it made no sense to play the starters in the last game, since the Lakers game could have been a a "quality win".

[Giuseppe]

All these intricate machinations Pop goes thru to play the games is comical.

Manu is his mirror image on the floor:::intricate machinations instead of just straight up competing.

It's a hoot watching these 2 fools.

[Stringer_Bell]

Pop is second guessed because he doesn't do anything that normal basketball coaches do for the playoffs. The rotation is in shambles largely because of his decisions, not because of injuries. I'm certainly not going to blame him for the Ginobili injury, but he's cost the team quite a bit in the last few nights and has little to show for it.

I tend to agree with this, but what's most frustrating about last night (some earlier games) is that Pop's strategy seems to have one foot in and one foot out of the pool - the players don't look like they understand, like this is an experiment that only Pop knows what he's testing. The reserves are hungry, so they play hard all the time...but it all looks a little fickle to me when our starters (after sitting out the game before) let the Suns get 40 on them in the first quarter.

I don't think these problems will hound us in the playoffs, but it would help with confidence in Pop if he'd just be a little more assertive than going halfway on stuff like he seems to have been doing.

[DPG21920]

Then play them vs LA as well. Just limit their minutes. Don't do the half ass stuff. Either sit them or play them. Why is rest such a focal point all year and not at the end?

Keep in mind, doing this stuff earlier in the season means there is greater margin for error and recovery. Going into the playoffs, there is none.

If you are going to do the half assed stuff, play them vs LA instead of Suns, not only do you get an extra days rest, but you get an extra days buffer for a Manu-like injury while accomplishing the same "rust" goal.

[urunobili]

timvp is doing his Horry. Coasting during the regular season to show up for the playoffs.

speaking of which, where is Marcus Bryant?

[SenorSpur]

I certainly don't blame Pop for Manu's injury - that can happen anytime.

However I do question his confusing strategy of NOT playing the starters on the next to last game of the season, then playing them the last game of the season.

If the Spurs had nothing to play for and he decided to sit them versus the Fakers, where was the logic in NOT continuing to rest them the following night versus Suns?

Was he worried about the rust factor? Was concerned with building some momentum?

Very confusing.

[Dex]

I certainly don't blame Pop for Manu's injury - that can happen anytime.

However I do question his confusing strategy of NOT playing the starters on the next to last game of the season, then playing them the last game of the season.

If the Spurs had nothing to play for and he decided to sit them versus the Fakers, where was the logic in NOT continuing to rest them the following night versus Suns?

Was he worried about the rust factor? Was concerned with building some momentum?

Very confusing.

Pop made the decision to NOT play the starters on both games of the back-to-back. That much is clear, and in my opinion, pretty reasonable.

For whatever reason, he chose to play them on the tail of the back-to-back against Phoenix. Maybe he was worried about a physical game in LA against a spiraling Lakers squad. Maybe he was hoping to affect seeding. Maybe he really was just worried about the players gathering rust of if they had four days off instead of three.

Nobody really knows the answer but Pop, and when you've got four rings, I think you deserve a little cushion with your decision making. Putting the blame on him doesn't make much sense. An injury could have just as easily occurred against the Lakers as it did against the Suns. Of course, hindsight is always 20/20 around these parts.

The fact is, it was just a crappy fall of the cards. Pop tried to make the semi-safe play. Like it or not, this team does need to be on some kind of roll entering the playoffs, and I'm not sure it was quite there yet. Couple that with the #1 spot still being up for grabs, and it's pretty apparent why Pop made the decision that he did. It just backfired.

That could've happened at any point over this 82-game season; it just happened to choose the worst possible time.

[GrandeDavid]

I can't fault the strategy. The strategy made sense heading into the Lakers game … and it makes sense to me now. Obviously, the Manu injury was about the worst possible outcome but it was, even with hindsight, a risk worth taking.

First, even though Pop would never admit it, there was a smidgen of value in having the best record in the league. Yes, the chances aren't great for a Spurs vs. Bulls meeting in the NBA Finals, however having a shot at home-court advantage in such a scenario shouldn't be totally discounted.

But most importantly, the Spurs starters needed the extra work. The last quality win this team put together was almost a month ago against Dallas. If the Spurs had been rolling to the finish line with rhythm and confidence, punting the final two games of the season would have been the right move. Unfortunately, that was simply not the case. In theory, letting the starters break a sweat and try to regain their edge held a lot of value.

Pop is going to be second-guessed, and he has to be kicking himself every time he looks over and sees Manu's arm in a sling, but the logic was sound. Now the most important thing is for the team to overcome the awkward end to an otherwise fantastic regular season. Although it's not the way you want to do it, it's very possible to find a groove and get healthy within a playoff run -- just look at the Lakers and Celtics last season.

Hope Manu's MRI comes back clean. Get in a few good practices. Put on the hardhats for what promises to be a very physical series against the Grizzlies. And let's get this ish started.

I don't second guess Popovich either. I also don't think Manu's injury will be serious and even if he misses the first game of this series, for example, the Spurs have plenty of firepower and talent to overcome his absence at home against the Memphis Grizzlies.

Also, and while I'm sure there are few who could blame them for doing so, the Grizzlies basically told San Antonio that they think they can beat them and that they are inferior to Los Angeles. As a man and competitor, I would assume that that would provide every single Spur, even Matt Bonner, with that deep-in-the-gut fire to tighten up defensively, work hard, get physical, and resoundingly beat the you-know-what out of Memphis.

I say Spurs in five.

[Kamnik]

timvp is doing his Horry. Coasting during the regular season to show up for the playoffs.

GOOD! I missed his insight during regular season... would be even worse during playoffs.

Welcome back timvp! :toast

[PM5K]

What annoyed me the most was that I figured he wouldn't play them, I totally expected to see them all in street clothes.

[rmt]

He out-thought himself. No other coach does this - they just do what is widely accepted.

He should have either completely rested them or just played them as they normally do during the season. Instead, they were confused with half effort and the resulting injury. I don't see the need to play them for that little return - a coin flip - after seeing Bynum, Nene and Lawson go down with injuries in the last 2 games of the season.

Hope Manu is okay or this dream season will do down the drain.

[ArtVandelay]

pop is puss

[xtremesteven33]

You cant blame Pop. Freak accidents happen all the time. The MRI hasnt come out yet so let the Pop Bashing stop

[Sii]

Yeah..the 4 time title winning coach has no clue and is a puss :sleep

The either "play both" or "play neither" makes no sense to me. I see zero issue giving the guys a night off. There is no reason he should have sat them both nights. That means come Sunday those guys wouldn't have played a real game in over a week. It has nothing to do with being afraid of the Lakers, but if you are going to pick the most risky game to rest your guys is the LA game..no question. LA had everything to play for seeding wise and went balls out with their starters the whole way. You pick that game, and then let the guys shake some rust off against the Suns. Manu got bumped. Shit happens. Deal with it

[DesignatedT]

Like someone said before, Pop would usually pull the "play it safe" card 100% of the time but for some reason felt that the guys should get in some minutes before the playoffs (guys coming back from minor injuries and other things im sure he knows) and while he didn't go with the full out play it safe strategy he still tried to play the semi-safe card by letting the guys go against a non physical phoenix squad and it backfired on him.

tbh I would have just sat the guys both games like he would have done in the past but I dont think there was any wrong in what he did. The LA game would have been a much more physical battle then the PHX game and that's a fact. They would have needed that "extra day" of rest if they played LA with all the added bumps and bruises that would have occured.

It's a pretty shitty situation but to start blaming people is retarded (wouldn't expect anything less from spurstalk though). If Manu can't stay healthy then that is his fucking fault, not the coaches. If he went down with some bullshit elbow injury now then he will definitely go down or be hurting with other injuries by the time Memphis is done with him. It's not a good sign how fragile he is and doesn't give me much confidence that he can make it through a whole playoff run 100%

[MannyIsGod]

timvp is doing his Horry. Coasting during the regular season to show up for the playoffs.

05 Horry or 08 Horry?

[GrandeDavid]

You cant blame Pop. Freak accidents happen all the time. The MRI hasnt come out yet so let the Pop Bashing stop

I agree. All this second guessing is hilarious. Understandably and rightfully, fans criticize and second guess, but Pop's thinking wasn't flawed. On a positive note, Manu may get to rest his legs for Game 1 and possibly Game 2, and if you can't beat Memphis two games at home in the playoffs, even missing Manu, then that's pretty weak.

On another note, between Memphis' obvious unstated declaration that they can beat the Spurs and that the Spurs are inferior to the Lakers, I think that the Spurs will have ample motivation to kick their asses, and probably will do so in five games.

[Bruno]

05 Horry or 08 Horry?

Time will tell what version will show up.

What is sure is that after such a crappy regular season, he better has to deliver in the playoffs. If he sucks, it will maybe be time to move on and ship him to spursreport.

[ElNono]

I don't think anybody is blaming Pop on Manu's injury, at least I'm not... I question the giving up games strategy in the name of avoiding injuries... just play to win the games. If you want to play some guys reduced minutes to keep them fresh, that's ok, but flat out sitting out people and handing out games, especially against good teams that are desperate for a win, is just mind-boggling...

I agree with whoever posted that he outsmarted himself...

[DMC]

Any other coach in the league would not have that record with that squad. Some coaches wouldn't accept the position with that squad. Your best bench player is George Hill, IUPUI guy? Two foreign players and a washed up power foward as your "big 3"? Matt Bonner and a 27 year old rookie in Neal? No way Thibbs or Jackson coach this team to this record. It's not like we acquired Boozer or a 1st overall pick in the off season, or like we got one of the best big men in the league for free over the summer.

I don't get why anyone would look at this organization and question their coaching.

You guys act like Pop is underachieving.

It's a decision a coach makes and you live with the results. I feel the same way when Neal shoots that quick 3 in transition, but when it goes I feel like Neal is a beast. When it doesn't I feel like he's out of control and playing out of the system. I cannot have it both ways. Make the decision and live with the results.

[DesignatedT]

Any other coach in the league would not have that record with that squad. Some coaches wouldn't accept the position with that squad. Your best bench player is George Hill, IUPUI guy? Two foreign players and a washed up power foward as your "big 3"? Matt Bonner and a 27 year old rookie in Neal? No way Thibbs or Jackson coach this team to this record. It's not like we acquired Boozer or a 1st overall pick in the off season, or like we got one of the best big men in the league for free over the summer.

I don't get why anyone would look at this organization and question their coaching.

You guys act like Pop is underachieving.

:tu

[polandprzem]

Time will tell what version will show up.

What is sure is that after such a crappy regular season, he better has to deliver in the playoffs. If he sucks, it will maybe be time to move on and ship him to spursreport.

Business is business