The Terminator vs Terminator 2: Judgement Day

[Red Hawk #21]

The other day I watched The Terminator for the first time, yeah I know I'm really really late but hey screw it I wasn't around when it first came out. I watched T2 as a kid, but I never watched T1 so I never fully understood it. To me T1 is the superior movie, even though many say T2 is. Arnold Schwarzenegger's played his role as The Terminator greatly. The guy was just so relentless, evil, coldblooded, whatever you wanna call it. I love that throughout the film Kyle and Sarah Connor would find someway to thwart him, and yet he would always come back stronger.

And that theme is magnified when Kyle and Sarah finally think they've killed him by blowing him up in the truck. Only for him to come out of the fire in his Cyborg form (Probably one of the greatest scenes in Action Movie history tbh). He's just such a wicked heart in T1. But T2 is the opposite, yes he's still badass but now the guy's swearing NOT to kill anyone? If I was one of the folks who watched T2 back in 91 I would've been pissed.

This was the same guy in T1 that was gunning down and killing everyone, and now you've got John Connor making him stand on one leg and doing stupid shit. Man that fucking sucks. The directors of T2 should've brought him back as a villain. After all he's supposed to be a Terminator for fucks sake, why is the guy shooting people in their knees and not Terminating them? Anyway, T2 is still a Great movie, I just think they fucked up by not bringing Arnold back as a villain.

I'm interested in seeing what you guys think about these two movies. Oh and btw this is Pure Badness
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[BlackSwordsMan]

How awesome is it to go back into the future and fuck your presidents mother and get her pregnant with the savior of the universe?

[AnthonyM]

I like both movies, but it sounds like you didn't pay attention to T2 at all, seeing as how they explain exactly why the Terminator is helping John and not killing people.

Besides, the T-1000 is bad ass enough in his own right.

[Red Hawk #21]

Of course, I paid attention to T2. Obviously, I understand that the T-800 was sent back in time to protect John Connor. But I'm just saying I would've preferred them sticking with Arnold as a villain. Still a great movie though.

[PM5K]

Interestingly the original idea was for the Terminator to be a smaller guy, and for whatever reason that I can't recall they wound up using Arnold. The second movie is more like what they had in mind, with a Terminator of a much smaller stature.

They had originally talked to Arnold for the part of Kyle Reese.

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

Interestingly the original idea was for the Terminator to be a smaller guy, and for whatever reason that I can't recall they wound up using Arnold. The second movie is more like what they had in mind, with a Terminator of a much smaller stature.

They had originally talked to Arnold for the part of Kyle Reese.

Yep. Cameron's initial pick was Lance Henrickson, who went on to play a robot for Cameron in Aliens. IIRC I think it was executive meddling that changed that. The wanted someone more imposing. As the story goes the next guy they looked at was OJ Simpson but finally decided that he had too much of a nice guy persona for audiences to buy him as a merciless killer.

Tough to picture Arnie shouting into the police surveillance camera: "Yu steel dunt gettit doyoo? Heel find huh. Zat's wat ee duz. ZAT'S ULL EE DUZ!"

For me I always liked the original the best. If nothing else instead of showing boobies in the second movie, they had Edward Furlong being an annoying little bitch in every scene. Advantage: T1.

[ChuckD]

Of course, I paid attention to T2. Obviously, I understand that the T-800 was sent back in time to protect John Connor. But I'm just saying I would've preferred them sticking with Arnold as a villain. Still a great movie though.

Rule #1 of action movies and sequels: you always have to up the ante on the villain. Having Arnold machine gun his way through another movie isn't as much a sequel as it would be the same movie. If you make Arnold the liquid metal Terminator chasing Sarah/John, the movie lasts about 5 minutes. If you send back another resistance human, it might last 15. You need a Terminator to help fight an improved Terminator.

[CubanSucks]

I prefer 1. Ahnold as a lifeless badass ftw. Not to mention the continuous dumdumdumdum music every time he's on the screen. A lot darker more gritty movie

[Stringer_Bell]

I think both are great. Terminator 1 is better because it's balls to the wall action with no mercy, but t2 is good because of the emotional elements it invites the audience to wonder about.

I totally didn't know there was a sex scene in the first part until I bought the DVD with my parents way back in the day. None of us knew it was there since we'd only see it on TV, actually. Was kind of awkward. >.>

[CubanSucks]

I think both are great. Terminator 1 is better because it's balls to the wall action with no mercy, but t2 is good because of the emotional elements it invites the audience to wonder about.

I totally didn't know there was a sex scene in the first part until I bought the DVD with my parents way back in the day. None of us knew it was there since we'd only see it on TV, actually. Was kind of awkward. >.>

Kinda awkward? I would be sweating balls and singing some song in my head to take my mind off of it. I saw 300 in the theater with my dad and my 2 brothers in law and that 30ish second sex scene was the longest 30 seconds of my life. I couldn't even enjoy Lena Headey's incredible tits

[TE]

the other day i watched the terminator for the first time, yeah i know i'm really really late but hey screw it i wasn't around when it first came out. I watched t2 as a kid, but i never watched t1 so i never fully understood it. To me t1 is the superior movie, even though many say t2 is. Arnold schwarzenegger's played his role as the terminator greatly. The guy was just so relentless, evil, coldblooded, whatever you wanna call it. I love that throughout the film kyle and sarah connor would find someway to thwart him, and yet he would always come back stronger.

And that theme is magnified when kyle and sarah finally think they've killed him by blowing him up in the truck. only for him to come out of the fire in his cyborg form (probably one of the greatest scenes in action movie history tbh). He's just such a wicked heart in t1. But t2 is the opposite, yes he's still badass but now the guy's swearing not to kill anyone? If i was one of the folks who watched t2 back in 91 i would've been pissed.

This was the same guy in t1 that was gunning down and killing everyone, and now you've got john connor making him stand on one leg and doing stupid shit. Man that fucking sucks. The directors of t2 should've brought him back as a villain. After all he's supposed to be a terminator for fucks sake, why is the guy shooting people in their knees and not terminating them? Anyway, t2 is still a great movie, i just think they fucked up by not bringing arnold back as a villain.

I'm interested in seeing what you guys think about these two movies. Oh and btw this is pure badness
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+1

[jman3000]

Thumbs up scene at the very end of T2 gets me almost every time.

[mojorizen7]

T2 works even better if you watched T1 when it first came out.
BTW, T1 on blue ray disc is awesome.

[Strike]

T2 is much shinier and has more explosions. T1 is the superior movie.

T2 pisses me off because they cut out the one scene with Michael Biehn. Of all the good scenes cut out, the scene with Sarah and Kyle in her room in the asylum should have never been cut.

[Dex]

http://www.ptbutler.com/images/general/no.gif

[baseline bum]

Yeah, the original is much better. Stronger storyline, better villain, much stronger soundtrack, and the flashes forward in time when they show terminators mowing humans down is crazy.

[Red Hawk #21]

I prefer 1. Ahnold as a lifeless badass ftw. Not to mention the continuous dumdumdumdum music every time he's on the screen. A lot darker more gritty movie

Exactly, the dark scenery, the scenes were Arnold just ripped his own flesh off, and his cruelty in his killings kind of made it Horror movie-esque.

[lefty]

I liked them both

But the 3rd one was awful

[Booharv]

I am a huge, huge fan of both, although I like the second one more. It has more depth imo.


Yep. Cameron's initial pick was Lance Henrickson, who went on to play a robot for Cameron in Aliens. IIRC I think it was executive meddling that changed that.

For me I always liked the original the best. If nothing else instead of showing boobies in the second movie, they had Edward Furlong being an annoying little bitch in every scene. Advantage: T1.

Cameron picked Schwarzenegger after having a lunch with him. It just struck him while they were talking that Arnold would be an awesome Terminator. Personally, I liked Furlong a lot in that movie. Every girl in my 8th grade class had the biggest crush on him as well for whatever reason.

[MannyIsGod]

OP was this thread due to The Terminator being added to instant Netflix recently? I'm about to watch it on instant Netflix because of this thread.

[Red Hawk #21]

OP was this thread due to The Terminator being added to instant Netflix recently? I'm about to watch it on instant Netflix because of this thread.

No, it was actually because I heard some older folks talking about watching The Terminator back in 1984 when it came out. That's when it struck me that I'd never seen it, so I decided to watch both T1 and T2 to compare.

PS- I'm pretty sure folks were raving when T1 first came out.

[Jekka]

Terminator the Second (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/huskyjackaltheater/terminator-the-second).

http://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/projects/28124/posts/67061/image-38174-full.jpg?1302135608

[MannyIsGod]

I watched it as a kid. LOL @ my mom letting me see this shit when I was 6 or 7. I then remember being so pumped up for the 2nd one wen I saw the previews and I actually went alone to see it. LOL @ the movies letting me in alone.

I have T2 on dvd but not bluray but its a special edition DVD so I might just watch both now. I'm watching T1 on netflix right now.

[SourCandy]

Thumbs up scene at the very end of T2 gets me almost every time.

"I know now why you cry" :depressed

[Nathan Explosion]

Speaking of the Terminator in a sense, Google is trying to make Google Goggles so smart it can recognize everything it scans.

When I first heard this, the first thing that popped into my head was that Google was Cyberdyne and that Goggles was going to be Skynet. :downspin:

[mingus]

i like T2 better. the antagonist T1000 is bad ass and the build up b/w him and arnold is awseome. best chase movie i've ever seen.

[Xevious]

The Terminator is one of my favorite movies, while T2 is just a good action flick. T3 and that other POS don't exist.

[florige]

I love T2. One of my favorite movies. Agent Doggett playing the bad Terminator was spot on as well. Also T2 totally turned the mild mannered/scared Sarah Conner into the ultimate bad@ss we all know and love. But I haven't watched T1 in ages. I'm about to watch it now.

[CubanSucks]

I love T2. One of my favorite movies. Agent Doggett playing the bad Terminator was spot on as well. Also T2 totally turned the mild mannered/scared Sarah Conner into the ultimate bad@ss we all know and love. But I haven't watched T1 in ages. I'm about to watch it now.

pretty much the main reason I don't care for 2

[Drachen]

I think both are great. Terminator 1 is better because it's balls to the wall action with no mercy, but t2 is good because of the emotional elements it invites the audience to wonder about.

I totally didn't know there was a sex scene in the first part until I bought the DVD with my parents way back in the day. None of us knew it was there since we'd only see it on TV, actually. Was kind of awkward. >.>

When my mom went to go play bunco with her cousins, my dad and I would always have guy movie night. We would go pick up a few segal, willis, schwartzenegger, etc movies, order pizza and have a good night. Well if you think this is awkward, try being 14 and your dad saying "Oh I saw this bruce willis movie at the video store, havent heard anything about it, its called the color of night". Then you say "I haven't heard of it either, pop it in."

Anyone who has seen that movie will immediately understand

[Spurminator]

Terminator is one of the few movies I wouldn't mind seeing re-edited George Lucas style and rereleased... So much about that movie is dated, and the picture quality could use some remastering.

[z0sa]

Terminator seems fresher and more intense to me. T2 is a top notch action flick but T1 IMO is more of that pure sci-fi that kind of energizes the imagination and creates a bit of fear and anxiety and thrill just from the situation.

[Death In June]

T2 made a huge impression on me as a kid. It was definitely one of my favorite movies growing up. My memory of the first one is hazy. I think I'll have to go back and re-watch it before saying one way or the other, but obviously nostalgia is going to heavily favor T2.

[monosylab1k]

After rewatching T2 I liked it alot less, mainly because of the shit ton of really godawful comic relief bits. It had almost as many eye-rolling "jesus christ that was fucking corny" moments as True Lies.

[MannyIsGod]

Terminator is one of the few movies I wouldn't mind seeing re-edited George Lucas style and rereleased... So much about that movie is dated, and the picture quality could use some remastering.

I can't facepalm hard enough for this. As I watched it again on Saturday, I literally said that I was so glad Cameron wasn't like George Lucas in that regard. Terminator is great and the grittyness of the film ADDS to it. Fancier explosions or some CGI shit would not make it look better. If you need more proof, look at some of the horrible CGI in T3 and Salvation.

[Heath Ledger]

ANyone remember the T2 Arcade game? I spent every penny i made one summer playing that money stealing game. It was so badass though.

[BanditHiro]

I can't facepalm hard enough for this. As I watched it again on Saturday, I literally said that I was so glad Cameron wasn't like George Lucas in that regard. Terminator is great and the grittyness of the film ADDS to it. Fancier explosions or some CGI shit would not make it look better. If you need more proof, look at some of the horrible CGI in T3 and Salvation.

if the main storyline was intact and the only thing that changed was picture quality and the effects, why in the hell would it be bad?

[monosylab1k]

if the main storyline was intact and the only thing that changed was picture quality and the effects, why in the hell would it be bad?

Oh don't think for one second that James Cameron doesn't have the Lucasesque flair for cheese. He just has the ability to get some form of emotion out of his actors, that's the big difference.

[ohmwrecker]

Terminator . . . hands down.

[Drachen]

Can't believe that this hasn't been mentioned yet in this thread but today, April 19th, 2011, at 8:11 PM Skynet becomes self-aware.

Just thought you would like to know...

Have a wonderful day!

[Booharv]

I love T2. One of my favorite movies. Agent Doggett playing the bad Terminator was spot on as well. Also T2 totally turned the mild mannered/scared Sarah Conner into the ultimate bad@ss we all know and love. But I haven't watched T1 in ages. I'm about to watch it now.

That performance by Hamilton is pretty fucking awesome tbh

[Spurminator]

I can't facepalm hard enough for this. As I watched it again on Saturday, I literally said that I was so glad Cameron wasn't like George Lucas in that regard. Terminator is great and the grittyness of the film ADDS to it. Fancier explosions or some CGI shit would not make it look better. If you need more proof, look at some of the horrible CGI in T3 and Salvation.

Maybe it's just the music. The music is fucking terrible. Except for the main theme of course.

[Cane]

T2. It raised the bar for blockbusters and imo was a much more entertaining movie both story-wise and action. Unfortunately I've seen it way too many times already. Watching that battle in the beginning, the nuclear explosion in the playground, the dismal/pre-apocalyptic tone throughout, SWAT team getting pulverized, Ahnold with classic Ahnold lines, 18 wheeler versus motorcycles in a ditch, liquid metal terminator, elevator scene, Ahnold's "death"...holy fucking shit it was awesome.


Terminator is one of the few movies I wouldn't mind seeing re-edited George Lucas style and rereleased... So much about that movie is dated, and the picture quality could use some remastering.


Yea the first Terminator looks pretty dated but part of its legacy has always been being an inexpensive hit. However I agree it could use some in-depth remastering. Classic scifi movies like 2001 and Blade Runner look like they have a much higher picture quality than T1 for what its worth.

[MannyIsGod]

if the main storyline was intact and the only thing that changed was picture quality and the effects, why in the hell would it be bad?

Have you seen the new Star Wars and how the new effects cheapened them? Part of what makes Terminator so good is that its dark and gritty and that it didn't have a huge budget. You don't get the same storyline and development by changing that. The setting is just as much a part of the story as the dialogue.

Trust me, I don't really enjoy the soundtrack (the damn chase music sounds like some dude in a white jacket with a mullet and a tie playing a Casio keytar) and the effects look dated but thats fine. No need to fuck with a classic.

[MannyIsGod]

Maybe it's just the music. The music is fucking terrible. Except for the main theme of course.

The music in T2 is marginally better but see my comment above on the chase music. It really is bad, but it is from the 80s.

[MannyIsGod]

T2. It raised the bar for blockbusters and imo was a much more entertaining movie both story-wise and action. Unfortunately I've seen it way too many times already. Watching that battle in the beginning, the nuclear explosion in the playground, the dismal/pre-apocalyptic tone throughout, SWAT team getting pulverized, Ahnold with classic Ahnold lines, 18 wheeler versus motorcycles in a ditch, liquid metal terminator, elevator scene, Ahnold's "death"...holy fucking shit it was awesome.




Yea the first Terminator looks pretty dated but part of its legacy has always been being an inexpensive hit. However I agree it could use some in-depth remastering. Classic scifi movies like 2001 and Blade Runner look like they have a much higher picture quality than T1 for what its worth.

That just involves getting a better transfer. Now that we're able to handle larger volumes of data in cable and bluray that shouldn't be an issue. Most of the older movies are shot in very high resolutions (how else would they ever be able to show them on huge screens at the theaters) but getting them to your home has been the problem until recently.

[The Gemini Method]

Can't go wrong with T2 and it was really the the last moment of ascent for Axl Rose's popularity, but the original was by far the better of the two. It didn't rely on the overt usage of graphics and explosions as T2 did, but the fear factor of the story and the cyber chilling relentlessness of Ahnold was better. I mean, just the sheer terror I had as a youngin when I first saw Terminator...shiver.

[Nathan Explosion]

I see a lot of you all dumping on T3 and I have to say that the movie wasn't half bad. But before you all go up in arms over that, let me explain.

T1 and T2 were actual movies with plot, story lines and what not. T3 just finished up the story line on our end (before Skynet took over) but that's about it for plot.

When I went out and saw T3, I knew what I was getting in to, a watered down story that relied on crazy actions scenes, a ridiculous chase scene that destroys many city blocks and lots of guns and explosions. And you know what, it delivered.

I knew T3 wasn't going to exceed the first two nor did I expect it. What I did expect from it, it delivered.

So in that sense, it wasn't half bad. When your expectations are realistic (read low on plot but high on action), then you won't be disappointed.

Having said all that, T2 has a special place in my heart as well. I'd have to go back and see T1 again as it's been ages.

[Nathan Explosion]

To clarify on my statements further, let me use another example, The Expendables. A friend of mine asked me if the movie was good, to which I responded, "No, the movie was bad". He then said, "So it sucks?" My response, "Hell no it was fucking great."

If you've seen the movie, you know what I mean.

[mingus]

Can't go wrong with T2 and it was really the the last moment of ascent for Axl Rose's popularity, but the original was by far the better of the two. It didn't rely on the overt usage of graphics and explosions as T2 did, but the fear factor of the story and the cyber chilling relentlessness of Ahnold was better. I mean, just the sheer terror I had as a youngin when I first saw Terminator...shiver.

there is such a thing as movies relying too much on graphics and explosions and it doesn't get any deeper than that. but T2 makes use of graphics and explosions in a way that connects to the story and characters. T100 wasn't a character that could be shown w/o the use of (at that time) never-before-seen effects. he relied on those effects, but that isn't a bad thing. some shit just can't be shown without certain technological advances. doesn't meen those advances hurt the product.

[MannyIsGod]

I see a lot of you all dumping on T3 and I have to say that the movie wasn't half bad. But before you all go up in arms over that, let me explain.

T1 and T2 were actual movies with plot, story lines and what not. T3 just finished up the story line on our end (before Skynet took over) but that's about it for plot.

When I went out and saw T3, I knew what I was getting in to, a watered down story that relied on crazy actions scenes, a ridiculous chase scene that destroys many city blocks and lots of guns and explosions. And you know what, it delivered.

I knew T3 wasn't going to exceed the first two nor did I expect it. What I did expect from it, it delivered.

So in that sense, it wasn't half bad. When your expectations are realistic (read low on plot but high on action), then you won't be disappointed.

Having said all that, T2 has a special place in my heart as well. I'd have to go back and see T1 again as it's been ages.

T2 finished the story. T3 was the studio finding a way to continue the story but it wasn't the story James Cameron intended. They stopped Skynet in T2 but T3 went back and erased one of the themes of the movie that the future wasn't set in stone. Oops, guess it is!

T3's not even a good action movie. I give scifi a lot of leeway because I like so much of it but anyway you slice it T3 is a steaming pile of crap.

[Johnny RIngo]

Of course, I paid attention to T2. Obviously, I understand that the T-800 was sent back in time to protect John Connor. But I'm just saying I would've preferred them sticking with Arnold as a villain. Still a great movie though.

A good portion of T2 was rehashed sequences from T1 so having Arnold play the villain again would make Judgement Day nothing more than a remake of the original. Putting him in the role of hero was a nice change for the series but I can see why some fans had issues with it at the time. Arnold, after T1, did nothing but play the testosterone-laden, pun-spouting hero and a lot of his fans were looking forward to him going back to his darker roots when T2 was announced. Instead, they got more of the same from Arnold(but in a much better film than most his 80s vehicles). In any case, most critics preferred the sequel. Here's Siskel/Eberts's respective reviews for T1 and T2:

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Might be off-topic, but I still wish Cameron directed his script for Strange Days instead of handing it off to Katheryn Bigelow and working on Titanic. Cameron's always had an affinity for science fiction(obvious from the cyberpunk overtones in Strange Days) so it's likely he would have handled the material better. Not that Bigelow did a bad job, just that Cameron's work always has that extra bit of polish(Aliens looks fantastic for a 18 mil budget) Even with a $42 million to spend, Strange Days looked like a B-movie.

[Johnny RIngo]

That just involves getting a better transfer. Now that we're able to handle larger volumes of data in cable and bluray that shouldn't be an issue. Most of the older movies are shot in very high resolutions (how else would they ever be able to show them on huge screens at the theaters) but getting them to your home has been the problem until recently.

Van Ling, Cameron's long-time creative and technical assistant, said this about the transfer on another forum:

RickardL, an approved HD transfer means whatever JC wants it to mean for him to sign off. Given his focus on Avatar right now, it means having to take the time to sit and watch the film and make notes (if any) about tweaks he wants made. He generally does not have the time to do this at all when he is in production/post on a show, so either he has to delegate the approval (not likely) or take the time.

Mike, this means that yes, it might hold up T1 as well. It also depends on whether or not the studio who owns the film will move ahead and use the last-known-to-be-approved master instead of a new one, just to get a product out by a street date target they want to hit in order to maximize sales (like trying to get T1 or T2 out in time for the release of T4). The studio has the legal right to use the last approved master without going back for the filmmaker's re-approval (or else a filmmaker could effectively prevent a studio from ever releasing a disc for a film they actually own), but often won't chance getting on a filmmaker's bad side over it... especially if they want to work with that filmmaker again. On the other hand, a filmmaker may have the contractual right to approve any HD transfer to be used for disc, but they have to do so in a reasonable amount of time, and understand that once it's approved for use, the studio can use it for whatever releases they want without going through the filmmaker as long as they do not alter the look of the transfer in any way (dirt cleanup paintwork is generally allowed, but running the approved transfer through a denoising filter is or a sharpening filter would generally mean needing a new approval).

That was two years ago. More recently, he said:

"The hope is that Terminator will get back on track soon... I was put on hold back in 2009 because many of the desired key participants were a bit busy doing stuff like environmentalism, picking up awards and trying to run California; if we're lucky, there might be a chance of a new release later this year. My understanding is that Lightstorm has been working on a Lowry restoration of T1 for a while now.
As for T2, it's owned by an entirely different studio (Studio Canal), so I don't know if there any plans for yet a new disc... but 2011 would be the 20th anniversary of the release of the film, so I would expect that Lionsgate and Studio Canal wouldn't pass up the opportunity. But since JC has final say over any remaster, I reckon it might take longer... especially if it might be in 3D.

[CubanSucks]

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skip to 5:00


thanks for mentioning that, douche :downspin:

[Nathan Explosion]

T2 finished the story. T3 was the studio finding a way to continue the story but it wasn't the story James Cameron intended. They stopped Skynet in T2 but T3 went back and erased one of the themes of the movie that the future wasn't set in stone. Oops, guess it is!

T3's not even a good action movie. I give scifi a lot of leeway because I like so much of it but anyway you slice it T3 is a steaming pile of crap.

Except that T3 wasn't a sci fi anymore, just lots of explosions and guns. It's not different than Transformers, robots fighting, explosions and what not. If you know what you're getting before going in, there's no way to really be disappointed.

Anyway you slice it, if you want an actual movie, skip it. If you want violent entertainment, then see it, just don't go to the theater to see it. I didn't and didn't feel cheated by paying so much for so little.

[Nathan Explosion]

To add further, T3 did do one thing to the story, it reinforced the first one. You see, Skynet was NEVER stopped. Kyle Reese is John Connor's father. John Connor can't be born without Reese going back in time and getting Sarah Connor pregnant. Therefore, Reese had to have gone back in time before, and sired John. Armageddon happens and Connor becomes the leader of the resistance where he sends Reese back to save his mom. It's an infinite loop.

If Skynet is stopped in T2, then John Connor should disappear automatically because the war is stopped, Reese is never sent back and John is never conceived. So the fact that John Connor stays alive when Arnold melts himself should automatically tell you that Skynet is still around.

But how? T3 answered that. That's about all it did, but it did it.

[Red Hawk #21]

Just a few things, I think Terminator fans must have been really excited for T2 if they saw the scene with Arnold walking slowly towards Sarah Connor while she's screaming hysterically during the movie trailer. This is the scene where Arnold ends up saying "Come with me if you want to live". That scene totally looks like one of those "OMG, he's back FML" kind of scenes before Arnold shows signs that he's here to help.

And another thing, I've always wondered about the scene were Sarah Connor starts shooting up Miles Dyson's house. I always felt bad the guy got shot in front of his wife and kids like that, even though he didn't die (Well not till later, at least). What was Sarah even thinking when she did this?

PS- Looks like I'm going to have to check out T3 soon...

[Johnny RIngo]

Just a few things, I think Terminator fans must have been really excited for T2 if they saw the scene with Arnold walking slowly towards Sarah Connor while she's screaming hysterically during the movie trailer. This is the scene where Arnold ends up saying "Come with me if you want to live". That scene totally looks like one of those "OMG, he's back FML" kind of scenes before Arnold shows signs that he's here to help.

The initial teaser(directed by the late Stan Winston) was shot so Arnold looked like he was playing the villain again(ominous music/glowing red eyes).

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There was also a trailer that tried to conceal the identity of the protagonist but they scrapped that one soon after opening weekend. Notice how they avoided using any scenes with John/Sarah and the T-800 in the same shot so as to make it appear like he was the villain.

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And another thing, I've always wondered about the scene were Sarah Connor starts shooting up Miles Dyson's house. I always felt bad the guy got shot in front of his wife and kids like that, even though he didn't die (Well not till later, at least). What was Sarah even thinking when she did this?

She's thinking three billion lives are more important than a computer engineer and his family.


PS- Looks like I'm going to have to check out T3 soon...

I wouldn't bother. Even in a packed theater the movie seemed underwhelming. It's basically a shittier T2 with Claire Danes in place of Linda Hamilton and some random hot chick replacing Robert Patrick. If you disliked T2, you're gonna hate this one even more.

[Johnny RIngo]

Agent Doggett playing the bad Terminator was spot on as well.

Billy Idol was actually supposed to play the T-1000 until a motorcycle accident forced them to recast. You can see his likeness in the concept art:

http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/651/t2artconcepting034.jpg

http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/1646/t2artconcepting055.jpg

http://www.atlanticcitytickets.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/Billy-Idol.jpg

[MannyIsGod]

Except that T3 wasn't a sci fi anymore, just lots of explosions and guns. It's not different than Transformers, robots fighting, explosions and what not. If you know what you're getting before going in, there's no way to really be disappointed.

Anyway you slice it, if you want an actual movie, skip it. If you want violent entertainment, then see it, just don't go to the theater to see it. I didn't and didn't feel cheated by paying so much for so little.

Did you really just say that a movie involving a cyborg from the future wasn't scifi?

Alrighty then.

[jman3000]

t3 was just a run of the mill hollywood action movie. Nothing about it really stands out to me.

t2 feels so much different. the metallic blue hues used much of the movie, the pacing, the soundtrack, the casting... all of it comes together to make an epic movie.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

Might be off-topic, but I still wish Cameron directed his script for Strange Days instead of handing it off to Katheryn Bigelow and working on Titanic. Cameron's always had an affinity for science fiction(obvious from the cyberpunk overtones in Strange Days) so it's likely he would have handled the material better. Not that Bigelow did a bad job, just that Cameron's work always has that extra bit of polish(Aliens looks fantastic for a 18 mil budget) Even with a $42 million to spend, Strange Days looked like a B-movie.

I really liked that movie. My only complaint is that it runs a bit too long. I remember seeing a teaser at the movies and got excited cuz I saw Cameron's name on it. I was pleasantly surprised. Great cast. Great story. Great soundtrack. A young Juliette Lewis. One hell of an opening sequence. Win upon win. Gotta see if it's on Blu-ray, now.