Tony Parker in clutch time..

[HarlemHeat37]

He was horrible in clutch time, big reason for the loss..

Missing mid-range jump shots, and to make it worse, he over-played the drive and left Shane Battier wide open for 3, despite the fact that he was the only shooter the Grizzlies had on the floor, down by 2 points..

He better have a monster game in game 2, tbh..

[itzsoweezee]

He was fucking pathetic. This loss is completely on him. Parker should not have the ball in his hands down the stretch. Fucking mental midget.

[cherylsteele]

That was a horrible decision at the end of the game taking that jumper. The Spurs were getting to the line at will in the 2nd half and they stopped all of the sudden, and settled for jumpers.

If the Spurs lose this series, Pop should be fired.

[timtonymanu]

Both Parker and Hill should have played better today.

And Parker missed too many free throws as well early on.

[manustarting2gd]

see the TP sucks thread

[StoneBuddha]

Couldn't agree more with the OP. Why Parker decided to pull-up from 20 feet when the lane was open is mind boggling. Force some contact and get to the line.

And the overhelp on the Battier 3 is totally inexcusable given the time and score of the game.

[Spurs Brazil]

Tony was bad the whole game but the last 90 seconds was a disgrace. First that weak ass shot instead of calling a play for TD in the post. Than why the hell he leave Battier open

[baseline bum]

The Spurs go as Parker does. At least the effort was there in the second half, unlike the first when he got lazy after missing a couple of easy shots.

[Muser]

That long 2 with 9 seconds on the clock was horrible. Need to drive it, he had an open lane.

[lefty]

Ginobili !!!!!!!!!!!!

[itzsoweezee]

The Spurs go as Parker does. At least the effort was there in the second half, unlike the first when he got lazy after missing a couple of easy shots.

he played well in the third. was horrible in the fourth.

[ElNono]

He better have great games from here on out... now we need to win in Memphis too

[Splits]

Not only did he have Duncan in the post when he decided to jack it up from 20 feet, Bonner who had just hit 2 threes was wide open at the top of the key.

[jag]

Tony played like shit and looked uninspired. He needs to stop going through the motions.

[polandprzem]

TP wanted to be a hero when he was not playing good ball.

As stupid as it can be.


Spurs with simple mistakes all game long.

[Holden_Caulfield]

Why didnt bonner take the last shot?!?!! he clutch yo

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

But Manu didn't even play this game, at least Tony tried [/ducks]

[Kori Ellis]

Parker was horrible, except for the third quarter. He's not the only reason the Spurs lost (Gasol/Randolph putting up ~50/25 didn't help) but he was a huge part of it.

[polandprzem]

We had Rich and Matt open in the last action.
TD made a good decision passing to the closer man.

But still Bonner being open all the time was waiting for the ball.



But what Tony did was unacceptable. I don't know if he wanted to prove a point when Manu on the bench?

[Mugen]

He missed a bunch of and 1s that he usually makes. His defense was solid in the 2nd except leaving Battier open.

He'll bounce back in the 2nd game but Hill needs to wake the fuck up.

[mingus]

Fuck the French. Never should've trusted this French douchebag

[manustarting2gd]

Wheres Eva when u need her?? LOL

[NewJerSpur]

He's going to have nightmares about taking that jumper with an off balance Allen playing off of him all the way up until game 2. He tried to put a dagger in the Grizz but turned out giving them a spark.

[TDMVPDPOY]

maybe he saw eva in the stands and he choked big time....

[Dartherus]

He was fucking pathetic. This loss is completely on him. Parker should not have the ball in his hands down the stretch. Fucking mental midget.
In NBA history, Manu is the player who has the biggest diference between his contribution and his stats.

Stats are proven to be possible to replace, Manu's constribution not.

[Reck]

Parker is not known for being a clutch player in time of need.

He shines when it dont matter.

[Mugen]

Parker is not known for being a clutch player in time of need.

He shines when it dont matter.

Bullshit.

[Reck]

Wheres Eva when u need her?? LOL

What's she gonna do?

[Reck]

Bullshit.

When was the last time he made a clutch play to ace a game?

[Spurminator]

Parker has been extremely clutch for the last 7 years at least. He wasn't this game.

[Mugen]

When was the last time he made a clutch play to ace a game?

In the regular season or the playoffs?

Last year's playoffs, TP was clutch in games 3 and 4 against the Mavs and pretty much put both those games away for the Spurs.

Manu still obviously has the ball in his hands in crunch time and rightfully so but to say TP isn't clutch just isn't true.

Not concerned at all with him having a better Game 2.

[timvp]

When was the last time he made a clutch play to ace a game?

Spurs fans with the recollection ability of a dust mite.


Anyways, this game reminded me exactly of the first game of the playoffs in 2005 when Parker inexplicable appeared not to be ready for postseason basketball. His stats (http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200504240SAS.html) and play were very similar. One would hope Parker would have been ready to go since the Spurs are without Manu -- not to mention the fact that Parker is a veteran now as opposed to back then -- but I guess not.

[Spurs Brazil]

TP usually makes a lot of clutch shots, but he missed today

[Brazil]

wow that was quick, lets be prepared for some funny shity posts untill next game about TP. TP has been horrible but we never should have been in that position to begin with.

Pop is the guy to blame from the beginning till the end, he broke a nice lead as always with bonner / blair bullshit. The only thing is doing is talking about Defense but he didn't act like he cares about Defense. With or without Manu shitty shooting days happen all the time, the only thing that brings consistency is D.

TBH we are lucky to have been in position to steal this game, Grizz shot 55% FG 55% (and don't come with they were lucky) ! with a 6/10 on 3s, luckily for us they missed 12 FTs shooting a poor 63%.


Guys creating thread to blame TP, Bonner, Tim or the weather are missing the point. Our D sucks and not playing Tiago is just some STUPID shit.


Yeah sure next time Manu will be there but maybe we are not having 47 FTs again with Grizz at 33 missing 12 !

[ALVAREZ6]

But what Tony did was unacceptable. I don't know if he wanted to prove a point when Manu on the bench?

Would not surprise me, really. Not saying it necessarily was the case, but would be no surprise at all. IMO he isn't the smartest decision maker on the court, and also never really had the vision to distribute the ball really well for a PG. He did also make a stupid decision to sext his ex-teammate's wife, a teammate he won championships with and who also has kids with said wife. Pretty ridiculous.

He also spends a lot of his time doing really foolish and childish shit like:

-WuEJX3Ty9s

A dude who's primary noteworthy skills are on the basketball court, still feels the need to make videos as shown above, does kinda hint he may be a relatively self-conscious insecure dude.

So yes, upon further review I do believe it is likely he was trying to prove a point that "but but but I can close too!!" :cry and also show his value to the team. :lol

[Spurs Brazil]

wow that was quick, lets be prepared for some funny shity posts untill next game about TP. TP has been horrible but we never should have been in that position to begin with.

Pop is the guy to blame from the beginning till the end, he broke a nice lead as always with bonner / blair bullshit. The only thing is doing is talking about Defense but he didn't act like he cares about Defense. With or without Manu shitty shooting days happen all the time, the only thing that brings consistency is D.

TBH we are lucky to have been in position to steal this game, Grizz shot 55% FG 55% (and don't come with they were lucky) ! with a 6/10 on 3s, luckily for us they missed 12 FTs shooting a poor 63%.


Guys creating thread to blame TP, Bonner, Tim or the weather are missing the point. Our D sucks and not playing Tiago is just some STUPID shit.


Yeah sure next time Manu will be there but maybe we are not having 47 FTs again with Grizz at 33 missing 12 !

Agree, blame one guy is not fair. The defense, especially the interior D, was awful.

[Brazil]

wow that was quick, lets be prepared for some funny shity posts untill next game about TP.


Would not surprise me, really. Not saying it necessarily was the case, but would be no surprise at all. IMO he isn't the smartest decision maker on the court, and also never really had the vision to distribute the ball really well for a PG. He did also make a stupid decision to sext his ex-teammate's wife, a teammate he won championships with and who also has kids with said wife. Pretty ridiculous.

He also spends a lot of his time doing really foolish and childish shit like:

-WuEJX3Ty9s

A dude who's primary noteworthy skills are on the basketball court, still feels the need to make videos as shown above, does kinda hint he may be a relatively self-conscious insecure dude.

So yes, upon further review I do believe it is likely he was trying to prove a point that "but but but I can close too!!" :cry and also show his value to the team. :lol

point in case

Alvarez 1. your thoughts about TP are stupid and 2. focusing on TP shitty game is dumb when Marc fucking Gasol scores 24 pts in our house.

[Pauleta14]

Would not surprise me, really. Not saying it necessarily was the case, but would be no surprise at all. IMO he isn't the smartest decision maker on the court, and also never really had the vision to distribute the ball really well for a PG. He did also make a stupid decision to sext his ex-teammate's wife, a teammate he won championships with and who also has kids with said wife. Pretty ridiculous.

He also spends a lot of his time doing really foolish and childish shit like:

-WuEJX3Ty9s

A dude who's primary noteworthy skills are on the basketball court, still feels the need to make videos as shown above, does kinda hint he may be a relatively self-conscious insecure dude.

So yes, upon further review I do believe it is likely he was trying to prove a point that "but but but I can close too!!" :cry and also show his value to the team. :lol

:wow:wow:wow :lmao:lmao:lmao

Wow

Do you feel better now?

It must have been hard for you to wait for the oportunity...

I guess it was a VERY long regular season for you and a pain to watch TP ending leader in points, assists and FG% for the best team in the west...

You're right, all these years/games were just fool gold and we saw tonight the real TP!
He's one of the best con artist ever!!!

[beirmeistr]

I wouldn't say that TP is not clutch BUT I don't feel comfortable with him trying to be a closer.

[Cane]

I'm still wondering why Parker had a 3 point attempt in the first half and it wasn't a wide open corner 3 with the clock winding down either. Also for this season he seems to have taken fewer mid range jumpers overall.

Parker's play was overall pretty bad. He couldn't convert his shot attempts and he made terrible decisions in the clutch both offensively and defensively.

He's our biggest match-up advantage against most playoffs teams so he's going to have to pick up his game especially with Ginobili suffering an injury.

But he also wasn't the reason why Marc Gasol looked like a HOFer out there...unless you play the argument that Parker should've gotten the Memphis bigs into foul trouble early which I agree with tbh.

[timvp]

Would not surprise me, really. Not saying it necessarily was the case, but would be no surprise at all. IMO he isn't the smartest decision maker on the court, and also never really had the vision to distribute the ball really well for a PG. He did also make a stupid decision to sext his ex-teammate's wife, a teammate he won championships with and who also has kids with said wife. Pretty ridiculous.

He also spends a lot of his time doing really foolish and childish shit like:

-WuEJX3Ty9s

A dude who's primary noteworthy skills are on the basketball court, still feels the need to make videos as shown above, does kinda hint he may be a relatively self-conscious insecure dude.

So yes, upon further review I do believe it is likely he was trying to prove a point that "but but but I can close too!!" :cry and also show his value to the team. :lol

Well at least the Manu fan boys are happy with this loss.

[janetcn12]

Don't be mean to TP. It's a team game not his alone. Good luck Spurs during the next game.

[Obstructed_View]

Hill ran the offense in the first half, even when Parker was in the game. Anyone that recorded it go back and watch. Then watch when Parker runs it in the third quarter and suddenly the Spurs start winning again. Then watch when Pop gives the ball back to Hill in the fourth and the Spurs start sucking. Blame Parker for that terrible shot at the end, but don't blame him for playing badly in the three quarters where Pop made Hill the primary ball handler.

[SpurOutofTownFan]

For the love of God..

you can't seriously blame the game on one guy. Spurs played horrible for most of the game except during the 3rd quarter and during that time of the 2 clutch 3s from bonnerball. The rest of the game was horrible, only McHale's Timmy was able to carry the Spurs through most of the game (at least he looked as sharp as 4 years ago).

This team can't win nothing without Manu playing - they are just too used to have him play.

Also, you need to consider the Spurs will not win these series going against their 2 bigs alone. The Spurs were getting killed on the 2nd options, unable to buy a rebound. There was a stretch in the 4th that was just slaughter. They knew that coming into this game so unless you bring everything you can from the likes of TP, Hill, Neal and Manu you can't beat them. They are an overall team. Also, I don't understand how you can leave a player like Battier all by himself right there. He's known for his perimeter threat and he's really one of the best players in the NBA - he's just had a bad break at Huston but I would have him playing for the Spurs in a heartbeat.

[EVAY]

People in here are so frequently eager to hang Parker.
Clutch play????? When was the last basket made by the all star and Hall of Famer and $22 million dollar a year man, Tim Duncan?

TD played well early. He played poorly late, and disappeared in the clutch.

This loss is on EVERYBODY, guys...get off one person's case.

Try Duncan from mid- third quarter, McDyess the whole game, GHill most of the game, and Popovich. Tony was terrible in the first half and food in the second. He wasn't perfect.

[EVAY]

Hill ran the offense in the first half, even when Parker was in the game. Anyone that recorded it go back and watch. Then watch when Parker runs it in the third quarter and suddenly the Spurs start winning again. Then watch when Pop gives the ball back to Hill in the fourth and the Spurs start sucking. Blame Parker for that terrible shot at the end, but don't blame him for playing badly in the three quarters where Pop made Hill the primary ball handler.

The most knowledgable post in this thread by far.

(But I have to admit the bar wasn't very high)

[SpurOutofTownFan]

Hill ran the offense in the first half, even when Parker was in the game. Anyone that recorded it go back and watch. Then watch when Parker runs it in the third quarter and suddenly the Spurs start winning again. Then watch when Pop gives the ball back to Hill in the fourth and the Spurs start sucking. Blame Parker for that terrible shot at the end, but don't blame him for playing badly in the three quarters where Pop made Hill the primary ball handler.

Man this is so true. WTF. This has to be a wake up call for Pop - this experiment has ended badly before - I'm not sure I'm ready to revive it all again. Hill is a good back up for SG but not as PG. Hill can really SCORE if he's not carrying the ball.

I just don't get why you would get out of something that's working and just mismanage a game that I though could be won.

[Obstructed_View]

The most knowledgable post in this thread by far.

(But I have to admit the bar wasn't very high)

I definitely agree with the second part. :)

[Brazil]

Hill ran the offense in the first half, even when Parker was in the game. Anyone that recorded it go back and watch. Then watch when Parker runs it in the third quarter and suddenly the Spurs start winning again. Then watch when Pop gives the ball back to Hill in the fourth and the Spurs start sucking. Blame Parker for that terrible shot at the end, but don't blame him for playing badly in the three quarters where Pop made Hill the primary ball handler.

don't be a party breaker for tp haters thats a golden opportunity for them

IMO TP played like shit the first half, he should have told Hill get the fuck out my way, he had a very good third, sucked in a 4 but not for the tp wanted to shine bs, with manu he is our main O weapon he took his responsability and failed.

We never should have been in that situation anyway

[Obstructed_View]

The Spurs were a fast break team all year with one of the quickest players in the league who plays great in the paint, makes good decisions with the ball and is completely healthy.

They were a half court team today.

Even Chump can do the math on that.

[ALVAREZ6]

point in case

Alvarez 1. your thoughts about TP are stupid and 2. focusing on TP shitty game is dumb when Marc fucking Gasol scores 24 pts in our house.

1. I don't really think they are too stupid. Specifically explain why my thoughts are way unreasonable.

2. I'm not focusing on TP's shitty game, I agree that would be dumb. I didn't start the thread, and strictly was responding to the thought that Tony may have been trying to prove a point, which I still don't think is extremely unreasonable.


Wow

Do you feel better now?
No, I don't, because the Spurs lost, however, it was only one game and I'm not too concerned at all because I think they'll win this series in 5, if not, definitely in 6.


It must have been hard for you to wait for the oportunity...

I guess it was a VERY long regular season for you and a pain to watch TP ending leader in points, assists and FG% for the best team in the west...
No, not at all, again. In fact, it's quite the contrary, I've said Tony has been the best Spurs player throughout this season on numerous occasions...and yes, they are numerous indeed.


You're right, all these years/games were just fool gold and we saw tonight the real TP!
He's one of the best con artist ever!!!
Wrong again on your assumptions. In summary: you're a jackass.



Well at least the Manu fan boys are happy with this loss.

CROFL. No, as already addressed, I'm not only relatively unhappy with the loss but also have been saying Tony has been the most consistent player for the Spurs throughout the season. In addition, I've also gone further to bash Manu a shitload of times this season. I have hated his shot selection and inconsistency. I know you've been MIA for a long time which might explain why you said what you said.


:pimpslap

[ALVAREZ6]

lol @ manu fan boys

[eric365]

Parker is not known for being a clutch player in time of need.

He shines when it dont matter.

Alzheimer or missed the last 10 years ?


Peter D. Newmann of NBA Statistics and Information Research has tallied some numbers that take into account this season. Here are some of his findings:

* This season, Bryant has made seven of the 12 shots, with a chance to win or tie the game, in the last ten seconds of regulation or overtime.
* Bryant's the only player in the last decade who has made seven such shots in a season.
* Bryant has made 26 of the 89 potential game tying or game-winning field goals he has shot over the last decade. That's 29.2%, which is slightly above League average.
* His game-winners, against the Heat, Bucks, Kings, Celtics, Grizzlies, Heat and Raptors come in a season when no other player has hit more than three such shots. Derrick Rose has the second-most attempts, with eight.
* The best field goal percentage, on potential game-tying or game-winning field goals in the last 10 seconds of the fourth quarter or overtime, belongs to Chris Paul. He has hit three of his four shots. Chris Bosh, Chris Duhon, Tim Duncan, Raymond Felton, Rudy Gay, David Lee, Rashard Lewis and O.J. Mayo are all two of three. This season, the League as a whole makes just 26.7% of its shots in that situation.
* Over the last decade, by field goal percentage the best shooters in this setting have been Carmelo Anthony (13-28, .464), Pau Gasol (9-22, .409), Tony Parker (11-29, .379), Chris Paul (9-24, .375) and Shawn Marion (10-28, .357). Bryant over the same period is 26-89 (.292).
* Bryant has attempted by far the most such shots of anyone over the last decade. His 89 is trailed by Vince Carter's 69, Paul Pierce's 57, Dwyane Wade's 51 and LeBron James' 50.
* Bryant's 26 makes also lead the League, followed by Carter with 20, Ray Allen with 17 and Allen Iverson's 14. Carmelo Anthony, Tim Duncan, Dirk Nowitzki and Paul Pierce have each made 13.

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/14218/new-numbers-on-kobe-bryant-in-crunch-time

[SPURS50]

Could any more of his shots in the paint roll of the rim like they did today? He has shown moments of being clutch with his 15-18 foot jumper.. Today not so much.

[da_suns_fan]

Regardless if he made it or not, that last shot by Parker was a huge mental error.

Would Ginobili take that shot? Of course not.

[timtonymanu]

Parker is not known for being a clutch player in time of need.

He shines when it dont matter.

0CKAgzT_ROc

4FmLSPSw2L8

x3Y_0zseJtk

[Obstructed_View]

Regardless if he made it or not, that last shot by Parker was a huge mental error.

Would Ginobili take that shot? Of course not.

Yeah, Manu doesn't make questionable plays in crunch time. :lol

[timtonymanu]

Regardless if he made it or not, that last shot by Parker was a huge mental error.

Would Ginobili take that shot? Of course not.

No he would have settled for a step back 3 that hits the front of the rim.

[ALVAREZ6]

no he would have settled for a step back 3 that hits the front of the rim.

+1

[EVAY]

The Spurs were a fast break team all year with one of the quickest players in the league who plays great in the paint, makes good decisions with the ball and is completely healthy.

They were a half court team today.

Even Chump can do the math on that.

This is both true and frightening because I fear it reflects the belief on Pop's part that the guard-first, quick offense that made us so effective this year is only for the 'regular' season, and now that the playoffs are here, we should revert to the "Timmy dominant, big-man dominant game of years past".

Problem being, we don't have the personnel for that style anymore, and the team's effectiveness goes down big, big time when the game is slowed down.
Today's game was a case in point.

[ALVAREZ6]

+1



haha you're just saying that now since people are calling you out on your parker hate and manu love, get real

[ALVAREZ6]

haha you're just saying that now since people are calling you out on your parker hate and manu love, get real

Shut the fuck up, I've been bashing Manu all season long

[Obstructed_View]

This is both true and frightening because I fear it reflects the belief on Pop's part that the guard-first, quick offense that made us so effective this year is only for the 'regular' season, and now that the playoffs are here, we should revert to the "Timmy dominant, big-man dominant game of years past".

Problem being, we don't have the personnel for that style anymore, and the team's effectiveness goes down big, big time when the game is slowed down.
Today's game was a case in point.

Pop loves to go away from things that are working. He accidentally went from what was working in the first half (Duncan) to something else that was working in the third (Parker), then had to really scramble to go away from both in the fourth.

[Brazil]

1. I don't really think they are too stupid. Specifically explain why my thoughts are way unreasonable.



So you are saying mixing decision making opinion with his rap stuff and the fact he had sex with Erin is not stupid ? because there is logical link with all that stuff ?

He wanted to make a point ? :lol he gave the assist for bonner for his 3 and passed the ball to Hill for the 3.

Without Manu he is our main O weapon and he cannot shoot the damn ball in the 4 ? He is one of the most reliable shooter of the league in close situation.


2. I'm not focusing on TP's shitty game, I agree that would be dumb. I didn't start the thread, and strictly was responding to the thought that Tony may have been trying to prove a point, which I still don't think is extremely unreasonable.

By posting a link of one of his video ? holly cow, the best example you found to back up the fact he wanted maybe to prove a point is attacking him about what he is doing of his free time ? I'm an horrible chess player but I still play chess because I love not because I take shitty decision.





No, not at all, again. In fact, it's quite the contrary, I've said Tony has been the best Spurs player throughout this season on numerous occasions...and yes, they are numerous indeed.

This is why your post was a bit surprising and stupid

[Hoops Czar]

He was horrible in clutch time, big reason for the loss..

Missing mid-range jump shots, and to make it worse, he over-played the drive and left Shane Battier wide open for 3, despite the fact that he was the only shooter the Grizzlies had on the floor, down by 2 points..

He better have a monster game in game 2, tbh..

Don't bring this weak shit in here. The entire Spurs team is garbage in clutch time especially when the closer is sitting on the sidelines. Btw, Hill missed the game-tying three (not surprising).

Giving up 55% shooting is what did them in. They can't get a simple stop when the game is on the line. The defense just isn't good enough to win. Hell, if they didn't sink 37 of 46 free throws, this game wouldn't have been close.

[Brazil]

Don't bring this weak shit in here. The entire Spurs team is garbage in clutch time especially when the closer is sitting on the sidelines. Btw, Hill missed the game-tying three (not surprising).

Giving up 55% shooting is what did them in. They can't get a simple stop when the game is on the line. The defense just isn't good enough to win. Hell, if they didn't sink 37 of 46 free throws, this game wouldn't have been close.

wow when a cavalier fan or laker troll or mav troll is the guy with the best analysis of the situation we are in trouble.

thats a very good post regarding our current situation

[ManuBalboa]

Parker has proven himself as clutch. I do smh when he is over there laughing with opponents/refs in the middle of a game.

The Spurs have been absolutely atrocious at drawing up & executing plays out of a timeout this year though. Pop has completely lost it.

[TDMVPDPOY]

this game didnt help us at all when they didnt allow any space for the spot up 3pt shooters....and most of them 3s we took were out of desperation that sinked in

[ALVAREZ6]

So you are saying mixing decision making opinion with his rap stuff and the fact he had sex with Erin is not stupid ? because there is logical link with all that stuff ?

He wanted to make a point ? :lol he gave the assist for bonner for his 3 and passed the ball to Hill for the 3.

Without Manu he is our main O weapon and he cannot shoot the damn ball in the 4 ? He is one of the most reliable shooter of the league in close situation.



By posting a link of one of his video ? holly cow, the best example you found to back up the fact he wanted maybe to prove a point is attacking him about what he is doing of his free time ? I'm an horrible chess player but I still play chess because I love not because I take shitty decision.






This is why your post was a bit surprising and stupid

lol the sexting and rap arguments were thrown in there rather trollishly along with the use of "upon further review" to make it seem something scientifically analyzed, when it clearly isn't, and the laughing emoticon, :lol, at the end of the statement also reveals some sort of goofiness in the assessment.

lol, ok you have your opinion, sure maybe a little stupid, but I still think he may have been forcing it too much. Shot selection, as you may tell, is one of my biggest basketball pet peeves, and as already stated that's why I've bashed Manu so much this year. I hate seeing a player shoot something like 4-16 during the game and then take a bad shot in crunch time when there are other options. Especially when that player has a much more reliable option, like driving the lane and either scoring or drawing a foul (these exact lines could apply to Manu's past play as well, word for word). At the end of the day, I was specifically addressing something very defined, and not Tony's play overall, which some people don't seem to understand.

[Pauleta14]

Hill ran the offense in the first half, even when Parker was in the game. Anyone that recorded it go back and watch. Then watch when Parker runs it in the third quarter and suddenly the Spurs start winning again. Then watch when Pop gives the ball back to Hill in the fourth and the Spurs start sucking. Blame Parker for that terrible shot at the end, but don't blame him for playing badly in the three quarters where Pop made Hill the primary ball handler.


I've watch it again and you made a good point!

I'm wondering the effect Pop's decisions has on TP's confidence...

I mean had Pop shown TP more trust, maybe he wouldn't had try to be the "hero" at the end to show Pop that "he can do it"...

TP was bad, shooting wise, but there haven't been a lot of calls for Tony tonight, whitch is strange concidering he is viewed by everybody as the main weapon of the spurs...

Anyway, as bad at he was, he is not the reason we lost, Memphis FG% is just insane for an PO game not even on their floor... :bang

[SpurAddict561]

LOL why is there a Cavs fan in this discussion?

Are we talking about lottery balls or the playoffs here?

[ALVAREZ6]

I've watch it again and you made a good point!


TP was bad, shooting wise, but there haven't been a lot of calls for Tony tonight, whitch is strange concidering he is viewed by everybody as the main weapon of the spurs...


So you've watched the game 2 times and think 16 FTs is equivalent to not receiving a lot of calls? Tony got the most calls out of all players for both teams.






I get it now. You just like to say things.

[SpurAddict561]

We got plenty of calls, we just couldn't get the basket to fall to go for the and 1.

[will_spurs]

So you've watched the game 2 times and think 16 FTs is equivalent to not receiving a lot of calls? Tony got the most calls out of all players for both teams.

I'm pretty sure he means "not many plays called for him", not "not many fouls called by the refs". Read it again this way and you will see it makes sense.

[Hoops Czar]

LOL why is there a Cavs fan in this discussion?

Are we talking about lottery balls or the playoffs here?

Here's another way to look at it. You either win or you lose. There is no second place trophy. If it massages your ego that the Spurs had a better regular season record than the Cavs, so be it.

Do you know who the second biggest winner of the NBA season is? The one who wins the lottery.

[Obstructed_View]

You could make a case that the refs were just as responsible as Pop for taking Duncan out of the game in the second half. It's really on Duncan though, because he didn't man the fuck up when he couldn't get a few calls to go his way.

[Pauleta14]

So you've watched the game 2 times and think 16 FTs is equivalent to not receiving a lot of calls? Tony got the most calls out of all players for both teams.






I get it now. You just like to say things.



I didn't explain it clearly...

TP kept being agressive and as he said in the game quotes he and Hill wanted to be more agressive to the rim in the 2nd half, so yes he shot a lot :rolleyes

What I meant was that I don't understand why Pop doesn't take advantage of TP's abilities and draw plays for him.
TP is able to create his own shot, but that doesn't mean he couldn't use some help...

[ALVAREZ6]

I didn't explain it clearly...

TP kept being agressive and as he said in the game quotes he and Hill wanted to be more agressive to the rim in the 2nd half, so yes he shot a lot :rolleyes

What I meant was that I don't understand why Pop doesn't take advantage of TP's abilities and draw plays for him.
TP is able to create his own shot, but that doesn't mean he couldn't use some help...
Aren't the ways Tony is used on offense pretty similar to those of Manu? Both guards run a lot of pick and roll, and the ball is often put in both players' hands to allow them to create simply because they can.

[Brazil]

lol the sexting and rap arguments were thrown in there rather trollishly along with the use of "upon further review" to make it seem something scientifically analyzed, when it clearly isn't, and the laughing emoticon, :lol, at the end of the statement also reveals some sort of goofiness in the assessment.

lol, ok you have your opinion, sure maybe a little stupid, but I still think he may have been forcing it too much. Shot selection, as you may tell, is one of my biggest basketball pet peeves, and as already stated that's why I've bashed Manu so much this year. I hate seeing a player shoot something like 4-16 during the game and then take a bad shot in crunch time when there are other options. Especially when that player has a much more reliable option, like driving the lane and either scoring or drawing a foul (these exact lines could apply to Manu's past play as well, word for word). At the end of the day, I was specifically addressing something very defined, and not Tony's play overall, which some people don't seem to understand.


your poste sounded like a CoM member at full force which was surprising indeed because you used to be pretty harsh on Manu and quite fair so I was wtf ? Erin, rap and TP clutch ?

I don't think at all he wanted to prove a point, I just think he took a bad decision, it happens.

I'm frustrated by his level of play during this game but we have to recognize, he tried and played with heart drawing 16 FTs. I wish Pop could coach the same way, aggressive, his bonner / hill running the plays / tp can't breathe w/o asking antics and lack of focus on D are beginning to get old tbh.

For the first I wish another coach had pop job, a guy like Thib

[Obstructed_View]

How does Hill escape blame when he was so bad and Parker gets so much blame when he was so much better?

[maddnezz]

How does Hill escape blame when he was so bad and Parker gets so much blame when he was so much better?
Tony is a "leader" Hill is a "soldier" I expect him to make a bad play, Tony has been here a lot more times then Hill.

[ALVAREZ6]

your poste sounded like a CoM member at full force which was surprising indeed because you used to be pretty harsh on Manu and quite fair so I was wtf ? Erin, rap and TP clutch ?
And I still am. I hold my teams' best players to higher standards. Tony obviously isn't an exception.


I don't think at all he wanted to prove a point, I just think he took a bad decision, it happens.

I'm frustrated by his level of play during this game but we have to recognize, he tried and played with heart drawing 16 FTs. I wish Pop could coach the same way, aggressive, his bonner / hill running the plays / tp can't breathe w/o asking antics and lack of focus on D are beginning to get old tbh.

For the first I wish another coach had pop job, a guy like ThibWell, I agree with you about Tony giving a strong effort in this game, there is no doubt. And I really haven't bashed Tony in a really long stretch of time, and that's for a reason; he's played really well this year. Hell, In my opinion I think I barely have in this thread because the scope in this case is such a small subject (shot decision at end of 1 game, vs. overall play).

I simply think Tony's maturity level for a man of his age is not as high as others, but that doesn't mean I think it's very low either. Probably average, which means he's human and things like jealousy and insecurity can exist. A man who puts out videos of him with women all around, flashy lifestyle (Tony, we know you're rich and can clearly pull the majority of women), with a cocky attitude and is likely sometimes spitting out a few questionable or ridiculous words (since most rappers do, although here I'm admitting I haven't bothered to listen to all of his raps), and who sexts the wife from an ex-teammate, a well-regarded member of some of those championship teams and all around nice guy, is likely to be somewhat immature (note: I am a fan of rap music, if that makes a difference). Again, I'm not saying he's ridiculously immature or anything, in my opinion probably no more than your average person. But immaturity translates to all walks of life, it doesn't necessarily stay off the basketball court.

You think it would be outrageous to believe a player who is arguably doing more for a team's success enjoys, or is indifferent, to the fact that another player on the team gets more media recognition and also seems to be the fan favorite? Manu shows up in MVP talk, even though he certainly doesn't deserve it for a variety of reasons, and Tony is not mentioned. Manu AND Tim went to the All-Star game, Tony did not. Manu is heavily regarded as the Spurs closer, and the emphasis on the is because it's usually talked about in such a way that makes him seem to be the only clutch player on the team, even though Tony also has his moments during the end of games as well. Well, to be honest, the majority of people would probably not be 100% indifferent to these facts if they were in Tony's shoes, and this is how my original connection came through.

I'm not so sure I wouldn't be 100% indifferent to it all either, and I don't think it's some ridiculous thing, only human. The underlying facts come back to lack of recognition on so many fronts, and I just don't see how making that connection to perhaps (just maybe, not saying it WAS the case) wanting to prove a point is all that outrageous. After all, the sole purpose of making a rap video if you already are filthy rich is to draw attention, like proving a point. Don't tell me he does it because if he didn't, he would feel millions of people would be missing out on his musical brilliance :lol or that he's realistically gonna ever earn significant money for it, even though he already is locked in for a shitload of it.

[Obstructed_View]

Tony is a "leader" Hill is a "soldier" I expect him to make a bad play, Tony has been here a lot more times then Hill.

Pop shouldn't have taken the ball away from the "leader" and given it to the "soldier" for three quarters then.

[roycrikside]

I can't believe there is even still a Tony/Manu argument. It's ridiculous. Tony is not a clutch player. He's just not. He does stupid things on both ends of the floor all the time. Say what you want about Manu about taking maybe a bad step back three or having a turnover by trying to dribble through two people or whatever, but he would NEVER take a jumper in that situation, with NINE seconds on the shot clock, like Tony did today. Never. Manu wouldn't leave the other team's best 3-pt shooter wide open at the end of the game either.

The entire second quarter we had zero assists. Would that have EVER happened with Manu playing? Not a chance. Parker shooting 4-of-16? Just a joke. He's not a point guard. He's Monta Ellis with better teammates.

Even that second Bonner three, Tony didn't make that pass to him even though he was WIDE open. He tried to take it himself, took a bad shot, we got a lucky board by Tim who kicked it out to Bonner for the three. We could've had another wide open look but Tony took another stupid shot when we were up 98-96. WITH NINE SECONDS TO GO ON THE SHOT CLOCK.

Tony never wants to pass. He always wants to be the hero, whenever Pop gives him the chance to do it instead of Manu because he wants to show he can do it. Manu doesn't give a shit about scoring or passing, he just wants to get the best shot for the team every time. He makes plays scoring, passing, defense, drawing charges, whatever he can for the team to win. Tony just scores and plays for the greater glory of Tony fucking Parker.

I'm so sick and tired of it. Same weaknesses for 9 years and it never changes. If Parker isn't scoring he has NO value. He's a liability in every other facet of the game.

[jason1301]

He was horrible in clutch time, big reason for the loss..

Missing mid-range jump shots, and to make it worse, he over-played the drive and left Shane Battier wide open for 3, despite the fact that he was the only shooter the Grizzlies had on the floor, down by 2 points..

He better have a monster game in game 2, tbh..

this one is totally on Tony's shoulders.

[ALVAREZ6]

Manu doesn't give a shit about scoring or passing, he just wants to get the best shot for the team every time.

Well, shot selection this season certainly doesn't support this. It has been retarded. Hopefully that changes in the playoffs, otherwise this team has no chance, they need him playing like he did post-All Star break of last year.



And oh boy, I can't wait to see reactions on the rest of your post. Should be entertaining :lol

[crc21209]

The advantage the Spurs have in this series is their back-court with TP, Manu, Hill, and Neal. They HAVE to recognize that and take advantage of it....

[Splits]

The advantage the Spurs have in this series is their back-court with TP, Manu, Hill, and Neal. They HAVE to recognize that and take advantage of it....

Exactly. And the backcourt sucked this morning. They had their moments, but were very inconsistent.

[Dex]

For some reason, Tony has become so spastic in end game situations that he almost seems hesitant to run the offense. His idea of getting a good shot is taking a screen top of the key and then pulling up for that 18-footer, which seems like it has been incredibly unclutch for him recently.

Until Parker is ready to step up and be a hero consistently, shooting contested jumpers in the crunch isn't going to get it done.

Spurs, on the other hand, would be well served to stop letting guys parade right to the rim in the closing minute of the game.

[ALVAREZ6]

However, you do seem to agree with my stance that there's a chance Tony was trying to prove a point :lol, which I still don't see as such an absurd thing.

[xellos88330]

That long 2 with 9 seconds on the clock was horrible. Need to drive it, he had an open lane.

This. I think it was Gasol that would have had to come to stop his penetration. Unless I am mistaken, Gasol had 5 fouls at that time too.

[ALVAREZ6]

Tony just scores and plays for the greater glory of Tony fucking Parker.


Wait a minute...are you saying you think the type of person that fucks over an ex-teammate champion, who is an all around nice guy and is positively regarded by most people, via trying to fuck his wife could be the type of player who may sometimes lean towards playing for his own greater glory???? :lol :lol :lol


As Sacha Baren Cohen's Bruno often puts it, "Coincidence or not?" :lol

[cherylsteele]

Hill ran the offense in the first half, even when Parker was in the game. Anyone that recorded it go back and watch. Then watch when Parker runs it in the third quarter and suddenly the Spurs start winning again. Then watch when Pop gives the ball back to Hill in the fourth and the Spurs start sucking. Blame Parker for that terrible shot at the end, but don't blame him for playing badly in the three quarters where Pop made Hill the primary ball handler.
I do blame TP for the breakdown at the end, but up until then he played pretty well, although he missed several chances for and 1's with layups he normally makes. But that was terrible decision to shoot, Bonner was wide open, and he had made 2 in a row, he seemed to have the hot hand but never got the ball to make a solid attempt at a shot.

I don't blame Hill for the offense sputtering when he is in there as the point, everyone else just seem to stand around, they didn't set screens or picks for him like they did fro TP.

[ShoogarBear]

And oh boy, I can't wait to see reactions on the rest of your post. Should be entertaining :lol

That's aaronstampler/roycrikside's schtick. The only thing he is capable of doing is posting pathological eye-crossed mouth-foaming hatred of Tony Parker. It's like ducks without the entertainment value.

He got run off under his old name but still posts the same shit under the new one.

[analyzed]

Tony Parker has said it before. He’d like to earn the trust Manu Ginobili has had.
It’s been one of the few gaps in Parker’s résumé. He’s been a part of championships, and he’s made All-Star teams, and he’s won his share of games.
But in final possessions, Gregg Popovich has made Ginobili his closer — instead of his point guard — choosing to live with whatever Ginobili decides.
What happened Sunday won’t change that.

That’s been the life of Parker. He’s been the third wheel of the Big Three, worthy of their company but rarely seen as their equal.
He was instrumental in last season’s upset of Dallas, and he’s arguably been more consistent this season than any Spur. But it’s never been enough, not with Ginobili and Tim Duncan as his partners.

http://blog.mysanantonio.com/spursnation/2011/04/17/buck-harvey-parker-takes-turn-and-he-misses-closing-argument/

[carina_gino20]

:lol at the Parker hate in this thread. So predictable.

Sure, TP sucked in Game 1, but he wasn't the only one. Why Pop would go to Hill as main playmaker when he's position is SG is just ridiculous. I trust Hill as a slasher and defender but as playmaker and making smart decisions on the fly? not so much.

To even insinuate that TP was looking for his own glory is insulting. Come on, he's been with SA for 9 yrs. Granted, he might be feeling like the under-appreciated one of the Big Three (which he is), but he's a Spur and it's the playoffs. These guys are taught year after year to get over themselves. Call it bad decision making, but to think that he just pulled up to show people that he's a hero is :dizzy. There's a very thin line between having the guts to take the last shot and trying to play the hero.

TP knows how to run this team as PG. He's shown that all year. I'm confident he can bounce back big in Game 2.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

wow!

a SHIT LOAD of pent up Tony hate in this thread! I couldn't watch the game last night so I'm not entirely sure what happened, but WTF did Tony do? fuck with everyone's wife or something??

[Brazil]

And I still am. I hold my teams' best players to higher standards. Tony obviously isn't an exception.

Well, I agree with you about Tony giving a strong effort in this game, there is no doubt. And I really haven't bashed Tony in a really long stretch of time, and that's for a reason; he's played really well this year. Hell, In my opinion I think I barely have in this thread because the scope in this case is such a small subject (shot decision at end of 1 game, vs. overall play).

I simply think Tony's maturity level for a man of his age is not as high as others, but that doesn't mean I think it's very low either. Probably average, which means he's human and things like jealousy and insecurity can exist. A man who puts out videos of him with women all around, flashy lifestyle (Tony, we know you're rich and can clearly pull the majority of women), with a cocky attitude and is likely sometimes spitting out a few questionable or ridiculous words (since most rappers do, although here I'm admitting I haven't bothered to listen to all of his raps), and who sexts the wife from an ex-teammate, a well-regarded member of some of those championship teams and all around nice guy, is likely to be somewhat immature (note: I am a fan of rap music, if that makes a difference). Again, I'm not saying he's ridiculously immature or anything, in my opinion probably no more than your average person. But immaturity translates to all walks of life, it doesn't necessarily stay off the basketball court.

You think it would be outrageous to believe a player who is arguably doing more for a team's success enjoys, or is indifferent, to the fact that another player on the team gets more media recognition and also seems to be the fan favorite? Manu shows up in MVP talk, even though he certainly doesn't deserve it for a variety of reasons, and Tony is not mentioned. Manu AND Tim went to the All-Star game, Tony did not. Manu is heavily regarded as the Spurs closer, and the emphasis on the is because it's usually talked about in such a way that makes him seem to be the only clutch player on the team, even though Tony also has his moments during the end of games as well. Well, to be honest, the majority of people would probably not be 100% indifferent to these facts if they were in Tony's shoes, and this is how my original connection came through.

I'm not so sure I wouldn't be 100% indifferent to it all either, and I don't think it's some ridiculous thing, only human. The underlying facts come back to lack of recognition on so many fronts, and I just don't see how making that connection to perhaps (just maybe, not saying it WAS the case) wanting to prove a point is all that outrageous. After all, the sole purpose of making a rap video if you already are filthy rich is to draw attention, like proving a point. Don't tell me he does it because if he didn't, he would feel millions of people would be missing out on his musical brilliance :lol or that he's realistically gonna ever earn significant money for it, even though he already is locked in for a shitload of it.

We have really different views about all that stuff tbh.

Tony is maybe totally imature in his personnal life but thats not the case in his professionnal life.

If he wanted so much the "glory" and had some jealousy he would never signed an extension with the spurs for a reasonable time and money. He would either went to LA / NY or he would have gone in a sub par team to be the main man and take care about his stats.

All he did during his spurs career contradict what you are saying, last year he went off the bench without problems despite the fact everybody predicted a drama queen behavior. In 10 years in spurs jersey he only showed he is humble and respectful of Pop, Tim and Manu. This year he reduced his FGAs to let the other shine if he was so concern about recognition why in hell he would have accepted that.

Of course he needs recognition like everybody, he has been disapointed to not be part of the ASG, he is surely also frustrated by the Pop antics... nevertheless he is showing his professionalism.

This is the problem when you mix everything personnal and professional trying to connect things. You know what I'm not a fan of TP personality like 2/3 of my compatriots, his behavior with Erin and his rap bs annoy me but all he is doing regarding basketball and the spurs is just showing how this guy is highly mature compared to 80% of the league, he never complains, respect coach decision, doesn't care abou his personnal stats, he is happy to be part of spurs even he is not in the spotlights.

So for me think what you want about him as a human being in his personnal sphere but you have to respect his professionalism and maturity on bb sphere.

[Cry Havoc]

It's amazing how different the composition of this thread would be if Parker had hit two more jumpers and the Spurs would have pulled off the win.

Players go from hero to goat here faster than Stern approves trades to the Lakers.

[Brazil]

And oh boy, I can't wait to see reactions on the rest of your post. Should be entertaining :lol

:lol@thinking somebody needs to react to his posts, this guy is as clever as ducks when subject is related to Manu. Speak to a wall and you will have a better argumentation

[Fabbs]

The defensive lapse by allowing the three pointer was inexcusable.
98-96 and the worst case scenario is Memphis ties the game and we get one last shot attempt. Overtime at worst. At home.

Basketball IQ of over .0001% says you don't allow a three there. Yet Parker leaves the shooter 15 feet wide open.

While all NBA players are supposed to have basketball i.q., it's a custom that point guards are supposed to have a continually high awareness level.

It was a snooze job.
If it was uncovered he was tanking to gambling lords it would at least make some sense.

[DeadlyDynasty]

Parker was dynamite in the 3rd, but other than that he looked like a rookie, tbh.

[spursfan09]

Tony should have stepped it up and he didn't. Spurs need him to be the best player on the court night in and night out, but he def wasn't last night. Hopefully he can redeem himself Wednesday!

[1Parker1]

:lol Spurs fans have such short term memory. Deeming Parker useless in the clutch when there has been so much evidence in pas postseasons to prove otherwise.

Parker had a bad game yesterday, period. For whatever reason...I expect him to full bounce back in Game 2.

Spurs in 5.

[spursfan09]

:lol Spurs fans have such short term memory. Deeming Parker useless in the clutch when there has been so much evidence in pas postseasons to prove otherwise.

Parker had a bad game yesterday, period. For whatever reason...I expect him to full bounce back in Game 2.

Spurs in 5.

:tu

[polandprzem]

:lol Spurs fans have such short term memory. Deeming Parker useless in the clutch when there has been so much evidence in pas postseasons to prove otherwise.

Parker had a bad game yesterday, period. For whatever reason...I expect him to full bounce back in Game 2.

Spurs in 5.

Yea he had a bad game overall and still wanted to be a hero where there was not need him being one esp. when he had guys open.


he will bounce back in g2 most probable

[cheguevara]

bad game? he had an attrocious 1st half. 2nd half was no much better.

and Parker does disapear in the clutch. That is why this team without Manu will lose every single close game.

[senorglory]

stunk. will play better. we're o.k. this round.

[ALVAREZ6]

Tony Parker has said it before. He’d like to earn the trust Manu Ginobili has had.
It’s been one of the few gaps in Parker’s résumé. He’s been a part of championships, and he’s made All-Star teams, and he’s won his share of games.
But in final possessions, Gregg Popovich has made Ginobili his closer — instead of his point guard — choosing to live with whatever Ginobili decides.
What happened Sunday won’t change that.

That’s been the life of Parker. He’s been the third wheel of the Big Three, worthy of their company but rarely seen as their equal.
He was instrumental in last season’s upset of Dallas, and he’s arguably been more consistent this season than any Spur. But it’s never been enough, not with Ginobili and Tim Duncan as his partners.

http://blog.mysanantonio.com/spursnation/2011/04/17/buck-harvey-parker-takes-turn-and-he-misses-closing-argument/

Oh wait a minute.....is this some evidence that supports my crazy claim??? A lot of what's said in that article is the SAME EXACT SHIT I HAVE ALREADY SAID.


You think it would be outrageous to believe a player who is arguably doing more for a team's success enjoys, or is indifferent, to the fact that another player on the team gets more media recognition and also seems to be the fan favorite? Manu shows up in MVP talk, even though he certainly doesn't deserve it for a variety of reasons, and Tony is not mentioned. Manu AND Tim went to the All-Star game, Tony did not. Manu is heavily regarded as the Spurs closer, and the emphasis on the is because it's usually talked about in such a way that makes him seem to be the only clutch player on the team, even though Tony also has his moments during the end of games as well. Well, to be honest, the majority of people would probably not be 100% indifferent to these facts if they were in Tony's shoes, and this is how my original connection came through.

I'm not so sure I wouldn't be 100% indifferent to it all either, and I don't think it's some ridiculous thing, only human. The underlying facts come back to lack of recognition on so many fronts, and I just don't see how making that connection to perhaps (just maybe, not saying it WAS the case) wanting to prove a point is all that outrageous. After all, the sole purpose of making a rap video if you already are filthy rich is to draw attention, like proving a point. Don't tell me he does it because if he didn't, he would feel millions of people would be missing out on his musical brilliance or that he's realistically gonna ever earn significant money for it, even though he already is locked in for a shitload of it.

[Cry Havoc]

Our indisputable team MVP since 2007 has an off-game (where he still got to the line more than anyone else on our team) and people are ready to lynch him.

Parker has been one of the best clutch-time performers we've ever had in San Antonio. It's unreal how spoiled Spurs fans are. There are 23-24 teams that would love to have Parker running point for them. The Lakers would probably kill puppies to have TPark instead of Fisher.

I seriously hate the "what have you done for me lately?" attitude that so many of our fans have here. I get that there's general frustration after a loss, but how about Duncan and RJ who were completely silent in the 2nd half? What about Blair's horrible pass to no one? Who, exactly, stepped up in that 2nd half that warrants going after Parker first? Every possession that we fucked up could have changed the game. Anytime we gave away points on easy buckets, that's the fault of our defense. You Spurs fans should know that the game isn't won and lost on OUR missed buckets, but on the ones that we prevent them from scoring. We didn't do that.

This may be a more offensive team, but this is still the playoffs, and our defense has to rise up to shut down the other team. They didn't do that. That's a fault of every man on our roster.

All of this horrible play and we were still within a possession of winning a game without our co-MVP.

[sonic21]

:lol Spurs fans have such short term memory. Deeming Parker useless in the clutch when there has been so much evidence in pas postseasons to prove otherwise.


tbh all these years of clutchness were flukes, only 2003 matters. parker's a choker.

[cheguevara]

can someone please remind me how clutch was Tony the last series vs. Dallas when Manu was out on an injury?

or how clutch was Tony last year vs. the Suns when Manu's broken nose was bothering him?

thanks

[Fireball]

that play by Parker was to remind all guys here why Manu gets the ball in the final seconds of a game ... although I wish they would run a play through TD or even create an open shot for another player like Neal

[cheguevara]

truth is Parker is not a game closer. Never has been never will be.

[Fireball]

can someone please remind me how clutch was Tony the last series vs. Dallas when Manu was out on an injury?

or how clutch was Tony last year vs. the Suns when Manu's broken nose was bothering him?

thanks

thanks for reminding us ... you are right ... we would not have beaten Dallas last year without some clutch jump shots by TP ... but I only remember one actual game winner at the buzzer (I think it was vs. Philadelphia)

[sonic21]

can someone please remind me how clutch was Tony the last series vs. Dallas when Manu was out on an injury?

lol



or how clutch was Tony last year vs. the Suns when Manu's broken nose was bothering him?

thanks

he wasn't. Did you search for duncan and ginobili? Are they always clutch?

[ALVAREZ6]

We have really different views about all that stuff tbh.

Tony is maybe totally imature in his personnal life but thats not the case in his professionnal life.

If he wanted so much the "glory" and had some jealousy he would never signed an extension with the spurs for a reasonable time and money. He would either went to LA / NY or he would have gone in a sub par team to be the main man and take care about his stats. (or he simply acknowledges that he has better chances at winning a championship with the Spurs, the same reason any player signs with any team. I didn't argue that he flat out plays for glory, but that he may lean towards proving a point at times for a variety of reasons already explained more thoroughly than I don't even know what to compare to.)

All he did during his spurs career contradict what you are saying, last year he went off the bench without problems despite the fact everybody predicted a drama queen behavior. In 10 years in spurs jersey he only showed he is humble and respectful of Pop, Tim and Manu. This year he reduced his FGAs to let the other shine if he was so concern about recognition why in hell he would have accepted that.

Of course he needs recognition like everybody, he has been disapointed to not be part of the ASG, he is surely also frustrated by the Pop antics... nevertheless he is showing his professionalism. (EXACTLY! You're admitting here that he needs recognition. Not all players care about recognition, but I'd say the vast majority do. I agree obviously that there's some room for frustration on his side, but professionalism is a different thing. It's what comes out during interviews, in front of the camera, on the mic. It's something completely different from inside emotions)

This is the problem when you mix everything personnal and professional trying to connect things. You know what I'm not a fan of TP personality like 2/3 of my compatriots, his behavior with Erin and his rap bs annoy me but all he is doing regarding basketball and the spurs is just showing how this guy is highly mature compared to 80% of the league, he never complains, respect coach decision, doesn't care abou his personnal stats, he is happy to be part of spurs even he is not in the spotlights. (I agree that he is mature compared to the rest of the league, but that also isn't saying much because I would argue that the average maturity level of NBA players is extremely low :lol. And now you're sort of contradicting..and also contradicting with my argument and Tony's own input from that article. I don't think he is 100% happy with not always being in the spotlight.)

So for me think what you want about him as a human being in his personnal sphere but you have to respect his professionalism and maturity on bb sphere.


And for the record, I can see how this example can be interpreted as a Tony bashing session, that I'm very unsatisfied with him, but if anyone's actually read everything, it's not even close. I simply like to argue (why I spend so much time on ST) and once my argument was established I wasn't going to stop defending my stance. In other words, for the sake of arguing rather than for the sake of bashing TP.

[ALVAREZ6]

If this can be directed to me as well:

Our indisputable team MVP since 2007 has an off-game (where he still got to the line more than anyone else on our team) and people are ready to lynch him. (I obviously am nowhere near ready to lynch him.)

Parker has been one of the best clutch-time performers we've ever had in San Antonio. It's unreal how spoiled Spurs fans are. There are 23-24 teams that would love to have Parker running point for them. The Lakers would probably kill puppies to have TPark instead of Fisher. (I obviously agree)

I seriously hate the "what have you done for me lately?" attitude that so many of our fans have here. I get that there's general frustration after a loss, but how about Duncan and RJ who were completely silent in the 2nd half? What about Blair's horrible pass to no one? Who, exactly, stepped up in that 2nd half that warrants going after Parker first? Every possession that we fucked up could have changed the game. Anytime we gave away points on easy buckets, that's the fault of our defense. You Spurs fans should know that the game isn't won and lost on OUR missed buckets, but on the ones that we prevent them from scoring. We didn't do that. (I never started the thread nor would have made it a point to bash Parker on the loss, as already explained in and out. Not even close.)

This may be a more offensive team, but this is still the playoffs, and our defense has to rise up to shut down the other team. They didn't do that. That's a fault of every man on our roster.

All of this horrible play and we were still within a possession of winning a game without our co-MVP.

[elbamba]

He just needs to be more aggressive. The Spurs could have won this game with Parker and Hill playing poorly. Imagine if one of them had a good game. Spurs will bounce back strong and win a by double digits. The Griz will be happy to have stolen one game, just like the Nuggets in 05 and 07.

[Dex]

:lol at the reactions and overreactions in this thread. I don't think anybody is talking about "lynching" Tony Parker or running him out of town and if they are, then they are foolish.

But that's different from people wanting Tony to manufacture a better shot in the crunch...be it a drive and dish to a shooter, running some motion, or getting involved with Tim in the P&R.

My concern is that the Spurs offense when the clock is ticking down has become terribly predictable when it is in Parker's hands. Teams play off Tim (or whoever) on the screen, and let Parker bomb away. There is a reason he is consistently open for this shot, and while Tony's jumper falls pretty consistently overall, I just don't consider it to be the best available shot when the game is on the line.

[Brazil]

And for the record, I can see how this example can be interpreted as a Tony bashing session, that I'm very unsatisfied with him, but if anyone's actually read everything, it's not even close. I simply like to argue (why I spend so much time on ST) and once my argument was established I wasn't going to stop defending my stance. In other words, for the sake of arguing rather than for the sake of bashing TP.

I love arguing and discussing

so to take the bold part you add in my posts.

A- or he simply acknowledges that he has better chances at winning a championship with the Spurs, the same reason any player signs with any team. I didn't argue that he flat out plays for glory, but that he may lean towards proving a point at times for a variety of reasons already explained more thoroughly than I don't even know what to compare to.)

1- He has better chances to win a ship with LA than with the Spurs but not sure it would have been possible to go playing with LA
2- The fact is prioritizing anyway winning shows that his interest is winning
3- What ??? do you really think any players in the league first priority is winning ? that is huge bullshit. First interest is money, then big market to earn more money. 90% of the league doesn't care about winning a ring, they care about their contract which is perfectly legitimate. Few are putting aside money to have a shot: Tim, Dirk, the 3 guys of Miami and few others. You think Joe Johnson, Arenas, Mc Grady... are interested first in winning ?

(EXACTLY! You're admitting here that he needs recognition. Not all players care about recognition, but I'd say the vast majority do. I agree obviously that there's some room for frustration on his side, but professionalism is a different thing. It's what comes out during interviews, in front of the camera, on the mic. It's something completely different from inside emotions)

100% of the human being needs recognition in 100% of the aspect of their lives. The guy who say I don't care about what the others said about me is lying big time (I'm not talking about an internet board). Thats the number one principle you learn when you have to manage people, by the way that is true in family circle (kids, wife...). TP is a human being so he needs recognition. Now you are implying he needs more recognition than the others I say there is absolutely no evidence of that in his professionnal career. So no I don't think he does stuff on a court to prove points.

I agree that he is mature compared to the rest of the league, but that also isn't saying much because I would argue that the average maturity level of NBA players is extremely low . And now you're sort of contradicting..and also contradicting with my argument and Tony's own input from that article. I don't think he is 100% happy with not always being in the spotlight

Of course he is not always happy, he is honest about that. For him for instance being part of the ASG is important. Nevertheless most of the time he is fine with his situation with the spurs, he considers Pop like a father (BTW I'm not sure thats a good thing), he is loving playing with Tim and Manu. I'm not contracdicting myself, you are never ever 100% happy about your job or your situation but you know thats the best for you. That is a proof he is mature. IMO he will never do something that will cost a PO win to prove a point, he is no Iverson.

[it's me]

The only thing Tony did bad was to take a fucking jumper with 9 sec instead of driving to the hole... (Manu has had those brain farts a lot of times) ....bad shooting was expected against the bears and with no Manu..... people is just releasing their hate... Bonner made two threes and shat all over ST... so the hate goes to Tony.

[ALVAREZ6]

I love arguing and discussing

so to take the bold part you add in my posts.



1- He has better chances to win a ship with LA than with the Spurs but not sure it would have been possible to go playing with LA
2- The fact is prioritizing anyway winning shows that his interest is winning
3- What ??? do you really think any players in the league first priority is winning ? that is huge bullshit. First interest is money, then big market to earn more money. 90% of the league doesn't care about winning a ring, they care about their contract which is perfectly legitimate. Few are putting aside money to have a shot: Tim, Dirk, the 3 guys of Miami and few others. You think Joe Johnson, Arenas, Mc Grady... are interested first in winning ?

1. Exactly...so once considering realistic limitations, such as salary caps, LA is out of the option. And, of course other things come into play such as loyalty. Any Spur that jumped ship to go play for LA would be a pretty big traitor, especially if it were one of the big 3. The difference in potential of winning with other teams would also have to outweigh things like these, such as the importance of not coming off as being a massive traitor, moving your whole life (finding a new house, moving all of your shit in, getting set up elsewhere, etc.).

Yes, I do think for many players their first priority is winning. Especially older, veteran players who have made their fair share of money, like the Big 3. It's well known Manu and Tim have taken pay cuts in the past in order to stay on the Spurs. Other players around the league clearly do that as well.

90% of the league doesn't care about winning a ring? ..that's quite the stat you pulled there. How about the entire Boston Celtics team? It's stacked, and not feasible when paying each player to their potential earning power/value. Thinking 90% of players don't care about winning a ring and are unwilling to make a little less in contract is pretty absurd. Your quality of life doesn't improve much from going from a person with a net worth of $50m to $60m. The extra satisfaction of winning an NBA championship though probably far outweighs that for much more than 10%.

100% of the human being needs recognition in 100% of the aspect of their lives. The guy who say I don't care about what the others said about me is lying big time (I'm not talking about an internet board). Thats the number one principle you learn when you have to manage people, by the way that is true in family circle (kids, wife...). TP is a human being so he needs recognition. Now you are implying he needs more recognition than the others I say there is absolutely no evidence of that in his professionnal career. So no I don't think he does stuff on a court to prove points.

Huh? :wtf

And I'm only implying he may seek more than some others on the Spurs roster, but definitely not for the average player, I would never claim that, and I think I was pretty clear.

Of course he is not always happy, he is honest about that. For him for instance being part of the ASG is important. Nevertheless most of the time he is fine with his situation with the spurs, he considers Pop like a father (BTW I'm not sure thats a good thing), he is loving playing with Tim and Manu. I'm not contracdicting myself, you are never ever 100% happy about your job or your situation but you know thats the best for you. That is a proof he is mature. IMO he will never do something that will cost a PO win to prove a point, he is no Iverson.

Not much to say here, other than stating that using Allen Iverson as a comparison should be taken with a grain of salt, because it's Allen Iverson. He's clearly a proven adolescent in a man's body. Can't go much further than that, you have your opinion, in my opinion, I don't think that thinking Tony may want to try to prove a point every now and then, or that he may have last night, is a complete stretch, especially considering everything else we have agreed on, such as him wanting recognition, wanting to be an all-star, seeing that he sometimes comes off as the 3rd wheel by the media in importance to the Spurs compared to Tim and Manu, seeing that Manu is universally viewed as Mr. Clutch even though Tony can be clutch as well and the perception is he is not a closer. No, I still don't think it's a huge stretch.

[Brazil]

I love arguing and discussing

so to take the bold part you add in my posts.



1- He has better chances to win a ship with LA than with the Spurs but not sure it would have been possible to go playing with LA
2- The fact is prioritizing anyway winning shows that his interest is winning
3- What ??? do you really think any players in the league first priority is winning ? that is huge bullshit. First interest is money, then big market to earn more money. 90% of the league doesn't care about winning a ring, they care about their contract which is perfectly legitimate. Few are putting aside money to have a shot: Tim, Dirk, the 3 guys of Miami and few others. You think Joe Johnson, Arenas, Mc Grady... are interested first in winning ?

1. Exactly...so once considering realistic limitations, such as salary caps, LA is out of the option. And, of course other things come into play such as loyalty. Any Spur that jumped ship to go play for LA would be a pretty big traitor, especially if it were one of the big 3. The difference in potential of winning with other teams would also have to outweigh things like these, such as the importance of not coming off as being a massive traitor, moving your whole life (finding a new house, moving all of your shit in, getting set up elsewhere, etc.).

Yes, I do think for many players their first priority is winning. Especially older, veteran players who have made their fair share of money, like the Big 3. It's well known Manu and Tim have taken pay cuts in the past in order to stay on the Spurs. Other players around the league clearly do that as well.

90% of the league doesn't care about winning a ring? ..that's quite the stat you pulled there. How about the entire Boston Celtics team? It's stacked, and not feasible when paying each player to their potential earning power/value. Thinking 90% of players don't care about winning a ring and are unwilling to make a little less in contract is pretty absurd. Your quality of life doesn't improve much from going from a person with a net worth of $50m to $60m. The extra satisfaction of winning an NBA championship though probably far outweighs that for much more than 10%.

100% of the human being needs recognition in 100% of the aspect of their lives. The guy who say I don't care about what the others said about me is lying big time (I'm not talking about an internet board). Thats the number one principle you learn when you have to manage people, by the way that is true in family circle (kids, wife...). TP is a human being so he needs recognition. Now you are implying he needs more recognition than the others I say there is absolutely no evidence of that in his professionnal career. So no I don't think he does stuff on a court to prove points.

Huh? :wtf

And I'm only implying he may seek more than some others on the Spurs roster, but definitely not for the average player, I would never claim that, and I think I was pretty clear.

Of course he is not always happy, he is honest about that. For him for instance being part of the ASG is important. Nevertheless most of the time he is fine with his situation with the spurs, he considers Pop like a father (BTW I'm not sure thats a good thing), he is loving playing with Tim and Manu. I'm not contracdicting myself, you are never ever 100% happy about your job or your situation but you know thats the best for you. That is a proof he is mature. IMO he will never do something that will cost a PO win to prove a point, he is no Iverson.

Not much to say here, other than stating that using Allen Iverson as a comparison should be taken with a grain of salt, because it's Allen Iverson. He's clearly a proven adolescent in a man's body. Can't go much further than that, you have your opinion, in my opinion, I don't think that thinking Tony may want to try to prove a point every now and then, or that he may have last night, is a complete stretch, especially considering everything else we have agreed on, such as him wanting recognition, wanting to be an all-star, seeing that he sometimes comes off as the 3rd wheel by the media in importance to the Spurs compared to Tim and Manu, seeing that Manu is universally viewed as Mr. Clutch even though Tony can be clutch as well and the perception is he is not a closer. No, I still don't think it's a huge stretch.

Globally we reach a point where I see what you mean and I'm pretty sure you see what I mean. We are now in the thats your opinion and I respect it but I disagree which is fine.

Just some few points or reinforcements of my view.

- I persist for most of the players money/recognition and more money > ring. I don't consider vet in that discussion, tp is no vet yet. But you're right after thinking only about money, some vets wake up and look for a ring when its too late.
- I do think once in a while tp can do stuff to prove a point but not in a PO game.


If I were TP (but I'm no TP and I'm pretty sure he is handling the situation much better than I would), I would be pissed off to see Pop asking for Hill to be the closer in the fourth. That was some pretty sad stuff to see TP bringing the ball in O, let the ball to Hill and go to the corner 3 to see Hill trying to make a Manu interpretation. crazy stuff if you think about it 2 minutes knowing that Hill is absolutely trash to create plays. I think Pop is doing that because of the FTs capabilities but thats some horrible tactic.

Pop is loosing his mojo or just loosing on purpose the first game of a PO serie to create an emergency state of mind. Either way :vomit:

[Bill_Brasky]

I realize that this loss was on the team as a whole, better defense would have put us in a better situation and all that, but I hold Tony to a higher standard, and expect him to know that when the other team's bigs are in foul trouble and we're only up 2 with under a minute left, he has to drive. Absolutely has to. That or give it to Tim.

I personally think he had a pretty decent game, he stayed aggressive even when his layups weren't always falling and got a lot of FT's for us. He created enough to keep us in it, but not enough to win.

Whatever. We'll get 'em next game.

[romain.star]

Globally we reach a point where I see what you mean and I'm pretty sure you see what I mean. We are now in the thats your opinion and I respect it but I disagree which is fine.

Just some few points or reinforcements of my view.

- I persist for most of the players money/recognition and more money > ring. I don't consider vet in that discussion, tp is no vet yet. But you're right after thinking only about money, some vets wake up and look for a ring when its too late.
- I do think once in a while tp can do stuff to prove a point but not in a PO game.


If I were TP (but I'm no TP and I'm pretty sure he is handling the situation much better than I would), I would be pissed off to see Pop asking for Hill to be the closer in the fourth. That was some pretty sad stuff to see TP bringing the ball in O, let the ball to Hill and go to the corner 3 to see Hill trying to make a Manu interpretation. crazy stuff if you think about it 2 minutes knowing that Hill is absolutely trash to create plays. I think Pop is doing that because of the FTs capabilities but thats some horrible tactic.

Pop is loosing his mojo or just loosing on purpose the first game of a PO serie to create an emergency state of mind. Either way :vomit:

Pop loosing on purpose a first PO game? Are you serious or am I missing some sarcarsm?

[Obstructed_View]

BTW, after watching Battier's three a few times today, it's pretty clear that someone didn't rotate to take Battier when RJ lost containment and Parker rotated. It's also pretty clear that that someone is George Hill.

[ALVAREZ6]

Globally we reach a point where I see what you mean and I'm pretty sure you see what I mean. We are now in the thats your opinion and I respect it but I disagree which is fine.

Just some few points or reinforcements of my view.

- I persist for most of the players money/recognition and more money > ring. I don't consider vet in that discussion, tp is no vet yet. But you're right after thinking only about money, some vets wake up and look for a ring when its too late.
- I do think once in a while tp can do stuff to prove a point but not in a PO game.


Tony Parker is turning 29 in less than a month and has been in the NBA for 10 years. I don't see how he isn't considered an experienced veteran player.

[ALVAREZ6]

BTW, Tony Kornheiser on ESPN just said literally a minute ago that Ginobili is their MVP, and I can't even count how many times I've heard it this year :lol

[ducks]

just maybe had pop gone to other players instead of manu late in games other players would have confidence they could do it

tp had a bad game he did get to the line though

he was missing his free throws
that is why he shot a jumpshot instead of driving
had he been making his free throws he would have drived
by the way at the time of the jump shot spurs were ahead

[ducks]

BTW, after watching Battier's three a few times today, it's pretty clear that someone didn't rotate to take Battier when RJ lost containment and Parker rotated. It's also pretty clear that that someone is George Hill.

but but but it was tp fault

[boutons_deux]

Spurs shoot 45% without Manu and they win the game. They shot 40%

[Obstructed_View]

Spurs shoot 45% without Manu and they win the game. They shot 40%

They gave up 55 percent, which is the bigger problem.

[Dex]

They gave up 55 percent, which is the bigger problem.

Apparently the Grizzlies just made shots. A novel concept.

[ShoogarBear]

Apparently the Grizzlies just made shots. A novel concept.

And the solution to that, apparently, is the Spurs just have to make more shots. :depressed

[ALVAREZ6]

just maybe had pop gone to other players instead of manu late in games other players would have confidence they could do it

tp had a bad game he did get to the line though

he was missing his free throws
that is why he shot a jumpshot instead of driving
had he been making his free throws he would have drived
by the way at the time of the jump shot spurs were ahead

FTs are easier than in-game, contested jumpers. He was still hitting his FTs at 75%...he made 12/16.

[Obstructed_View]

Apparently the Grizzlies just made shots. A novel concept.

If the opposing front line is gonna shoot 76 percent against you, you just tip your hat to them and start making vacation plans for the summer.

[itzsoweezee]

I'm not a Parker hater. I don't discount his clutch play with the Spurs. But this loss was on Tony. He played horrible for three quarters and made two huge mistakes down the stretch. I hope he rebounds from this and dominates Conley the rest of the series.

[Obstructed_View]

I'm not a Parker hater. I don't discount his clutch play with the Spurs. But this loss was on Tony. He played horrible for three quarters and made two huge mistakes down the stretch. I hope he rebounds from this and dominates Conley the rest of the series.

Parker's a crappy shooting guard. Who besides the head coach didn't know that before gametime?

[Obstructed_View]

It's shocking how much this is like 2006. The Spurs have to scramble to learn a completely new way of playing on the fly because Pop decides to start going small in the playoffs, the Spurs work their asses off for seven games, finally start to figure it out and Manu gets blamed for the whole fucking thing because he fouled Dirk. Now ESPN says Kobe's the player of his generation because Duncan never managed to repeat as champion.

[howbouthemspurs]

oh no! Tony Parker suck now!! damn!!! better give up on him then..... fuckin retards

[roycrikside]

Spurs fans with the recollection ability of a dust mite.


Anyways, this game reminded me exactly of the first game of the playoffs in 2005 when Parker inexplicable appeared not to be ready for postseason basketball. His stats (http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200504240SAS.html) and play were very similar. One would hope Parker would have been ready to go since the Spurs are without Manu -- not to mention the fact that Parker is a veteran now as opposed to back then -- but I guess not.


I would suggest you watch G7 of the '05 Finals again. Talk about spazzing out. Pop had to bring in Barry to bail his ass out.

[roycrikside]

Our indisputable team MVP since 2007 has an off-game (where he still got to the line more than anyone else on our team) and people are ready to lynch him.

Parker has been one of the best clutch-time performers we've ever had in San Antonio. It's unreal how spoiled Spurs fans are. There are 23-24 teams that would love to have Parker running point for them. The Lakers would probably kill puppies to have TPark instead of Fisher.

I seriously hate the "what have you done for me lately?" attitude that so many of our fans have here. I get that there's general frustration after a loss, but how about Duncan and RJ who were completely silent in the 2nd half? What about Blair's horrible pass to no one? Who, exactly, stepped up in that 2nd half that warrants going after Parker first? Every possession that we fucked up could have changed the game. Anytime we gave away points on easy buckets, that's the fault of our defense. You Spurs fans should know that the game isn't won and lost on OUR missed buckets, but on the ones that we prevent them from scoring. We didn't do that.

This may be a more offensive team, but this is still the playoffs, and our defense has to rise up to shut down the other team. They didn't do that. That's a fault of every man on our roster.

All of this horrible play and we were still within a possession of winning a game without our co-MVP.

The idea that Tony was the MVP since 2007 is absurd.

Manu was better in '07.
Manu was better in '08.
Tony was better in '09, the one year Manu mostly missed with injury.
Manu was better in '10.
Manu was better this year.

I honestly don't know what game most people are watching. People don't seem to understand there's a reason that Tony seems to have the best match-up most games. Point guards are very seldom the best athletes on the team. How many good defenders are there at point guard in the NBA? Rondo. Anyone else? Kidd is too old and slow. Ginobili and Duncan have to go against superior athletes and elite defenders night after night. There are plenty of good point guards in the league, but none of them can guard for shit and Pop knows it. It doesn't mean Tony is the better or more valuable. It's just taking advantage of match-ups.

[portnoy1]

the thing that people dont realize about parker is that he is the spurs most consistent/efficient scorer but probably 3rd best facilitator behind Manu an duncan. What Cp3 did that same day is a prime example of what parker needed to do. Which is get other guys going an then do your thing in 4th. Cp3 had 9ast in the first half getting guys like gray an landry going an then in the 4th had room to play 1 on 1 an picked his defender apart.

[Obstructed_View]

the thing that people dont realize about parker is that he is the spurs most consistent/efficient scorer but probably 3rd best facilitator behind Manu an duncan. What Cp3 did that same day is a prime example of what parker needed to do. Which is get other guys going an then do your thing in 4th. Cp3 had 9ast in the first half getting guys like gray an landry going an then in the 4th had room to play 1 on 1 an picked his defender apart.

Parker was the shooting guard for the Spurs in the first half and the 4th quarter. Why are you comparing him to a point guard?

[romain.star]

The idea that Tony was the MVP since 2007 is absurd.

Manu was better in '07.
Manu was better in '08.
Tony was better in '09, the one year Manu mostly missed with injury.
Manu was better in '10.
Manu was better this year.

I honestly don't know what game most people are watching. People don't seem to understand there's a reason that Tony seems to have the best match-up most games. Point guards are very seldom the best athletes on the team. How many good defenders are there at point guard in the NBA? Rondo. Anyone else? Kidd is too old and slow. Ginobili and Duncan have to go against superior athletes and elite defenders night after night. There are plenty of good point guards in the league, but none of them can guard for shit and Pop knows it. It doesn't mean Tony is the better or more valuable. It's just taking advantage of match-ups.

I agree Manu was the most valuable guard for the Spurs since 2007 (though it’s really close)

The funny thing is that it seems too hard for you to simply admit Tony was much better than Manu in 09’ (the kid was walking on water), which is why you felt the need to remind us about Manu injury.
But when it comes to ''Manu>Parker 2010'' season, you have no problem forgetting the numerous injuries Parker dealt with all season long

I don't want to argue about who's the best cause as a true Spurs fan, I care about team wins only.

The only positive note regarding Manu looming retirement will be you leaving this board for good


Oh you're right about the PG postition being the weak link in this league. Playing all those PGs everynight sure is piece of cake for Parker

:rolleyes

[Texas_Ranger]

I don't like this Tony vs Manu bullshit, but Manu was and is better.

[Pauleta14]

the thing that people dont realize about parker is that he is the spurs most consistent/efficient scorer but probably 3rd best facilitator behind Manu an duncan. What Cp3 did that same day is a prime example of what parker needed to do. Which is get other guys going an then do your thing in 4th. Cp3 had 9ast in the first half getting guys like gray an landry going an then in the 4th had room to play 1 on 1 an picked his defender apart.

CP3 couldn't do the same thing with the spurs, Pop wouldn't let him...

Pop doesn't want his team to depend on the production of 1 playmaker, so even if Paul probably would average more assists than Tony with a spur uniform (with less points and worst FG%), you can't compare...

TP HAS TO constantly watch Pop to call the plays, not because he can't do it by himself, but because... HE HAS TO !!!!

TP had a bad game shooting wise, but in term of decision making, most of what he did was what Pop asked him to do...

TBH, as sad I was after the loss, TP's treatment by spurs fans is even sader...
For a guy that has done so much, so loyal to the franchise and unselfish (how many"elite" players would have accept to shoot less, even being the most efficient of the team, for thebetter of some teamates?), the reactions on the forum are just unreal...

[portnoy1]

Parker was the shooting guard for the Spurs in the first half and the 4th quarter. Why are you comparing him to a point guard?parker is always the point guard/main ball handler unless its late in the game an he is on the wing while ginobili (who didnt play)handles the ball.

[Bambililos]

Did you watch the game?

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

parker is always the point guard/main ball handler unless its late in the game an he is on the wing while ginobili (who didnt play)handles the ball.

You didn't actually watch the game but you're talking out of your ass because it's a nice thread for bashing Parker right?

[urunobili]

All the ones talking trash about TP's clutchness is sick. Y'all forget how big he was vs. New Orleans in 08 among other game winners he's hit since. TP is fine and will be back with a vengeance.

[it's me]

Funny part is that everybody will go back to hate on Bonner after game 2 :lmao

[portnoy1]

You didn't actually watch the game but you're talking out of your ass because it's a nice thread for bashing Parker right?i watched the game, and yes parker played aggresive and got to the line and made up for his poor shooting + i think he is clutch but its his decision making that was bad.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

i watched the game, and yes parker played aggresive and got to the line and made up for his poor shooting + i think he is clutch but its his decision making that was bad.

Parker wasn't running the offense for large periods of the game, in fact most of the game.

[portnoy1]

Parker wasn't running the offense for large periods of the game, in fact most of the game.
In the clutch how was his decision making? in your opinion that is.

[Cane]

Parker wasn't running the offense for large periods of the game, in fact most of the game.

Hill did get a lot more action with the ball with Manu out but Parker was running the offense for the majority of the game. It just didn't seem that way since Parker is lightning quick and missed a ton of shots. He and the Spurs made terrible decisions throughout the game which don't always show up on a stat sheet like failing to pass to the open 3 point shooter and taking a long 2 instead.

[Brazil]

In the clutch how was his decision making? in your opinion that is.

bad

[portnoy1]

Hill did get a lot more action with the ball with Manu out but Parker was running the offense for the majority of the game. It just didn't seem that way since Parker is lightning quick and missed a ton of shots. He and the Spurs made terrible decisions throughout the game which don't always show up on a stat sheet like failing to pass to the open 3 point shooter and taking a long 2 instead.
Thats been my point all along, Parker is a baller/allstar/Finals Mvp none of that can be taken away from him. But in sundays game his weaknesses were exposed/he made bad decisions and didnt play well. It happens to every player. He is certainly not the only reason the spurs loss, but offensively speaking I would put most of the blame on him. I just hate it when this dude has a bad game and posters sit around making excuses for him and get all defensive and label parker-hater at anyone who calls him out. Same is true when he has a good game, give em' credit just dont be a homer either.

[Pauleta14]

Thats been my point all along, Parker is a baller/allstar/Finals Mvp none of that can be taken away from him. But in sundays game his weaknesses were exposed/he made bad decisions and didnt play well. It happens to every player. He is certainly not the only reason the spurs loss, but offensively speaking I would put most of the blame on him. I just hate it when this dude has a bad game and posters sit around making excuses for him and get all defensive and label parker-hater at anyone who calls him out. Same is true when he has a good game, give em' credit just dont be a homer either.


:nope
Look again closely to the posts you're talking about...

Everybody admits that he had a bad game!
Most of the posts were answers to wrong statements about him "in general", not about THAT specific game...

Some posters (alvarez) were even talking about his rap album and his "sexting" to illustrate their point! :lol

It just seems to me that TP doesn't deserves all this questioning after 1 bad game!
Most of the criticism looked like "you see, I told you...", as if they were waiting for that opportunity to trash him.

The main reason he's defended is because he's got a special treatment comparing to what Tim or Manu receive after a bad game.
It's even more shocking after a season where TP showed he is the least problem the spurs have...

[Obstructed_View]

Hill did get a lot more action with the ball with Manu out but Parker was running the offense for the majority of the game. It just didn't seem that way since Parker is lightning quick and missed a ton of shots. He and the Spurs made terrible decisions throughout the game which don't always show up on a stat sheet like failing to pass to the open 3 point shooter and taking a long 2 instead.

No, you absolutely couldn't be more wrong. Hill ran the offense for all but the third quarter, when Parker did most of his damage and the Spurs took control of the game. Parker's shot at the end wasn't a good shot but he's taken that exact same shot in similar situations for the last four or five years and almost never misses it. With the ball being taken out of his hands by the coach for such a long period of time, it only encourages a shot like that from Parker to try to help seal a close win.

[Cane]

No, you absolutely couldn't be more wrong. Hill ran the offense for all but the third quarter, when Parker did most of his damage and the Spurs took control of the game.


They tried to play Parker/Hill like it was Parker/Manu, but for what its worth Parker had 29.1 USG% and Hill had 16%. Duncan had 22.4%. The stuff was going mainly to the Spurs big 2 especially in the first half but Parker's missed shots is what made a huge difference offensively between the 3 of them.



Parker's shot at the end wasn't a good shot but he's taken that exact same shot in similar situations for the last four or five years and almost never misses it. With the ball being taken out of his hands by the coach for such a long period of time, it only encourages a shot like that from Parker to try to help seal a close win.

It was a wide open long 2 but its still way too risky. He had the time and lane to drive it to the rim, imo he took that jumper because he was struggling finishing at the paint and its hard to turn down a wide open look even if there's time on the clock. Although he HAS to make that shot in a close 4th quarter or at least grab the board.

[Obstructed_View]

Usage percentage isn't about who's running the offense, it's about who takes the shots. When Hill is being handed the ball on rebounds and Parker is camped out in the corner, it's pretty clear who the point guard is.

[Cane]

Usage percentage isn't about who's running the offense, it's about who takes the shots.

The offense was all about running stuff for the big 2 and trying to get others going in the process. Often the player who brings the ball up is just a piece of the play rather than the catalyst. Parker had plenty of time running the offense and also had a lot of good opportunities. He just couldn't convert some of his usual shots and made some bad decisions in the 4th which hopefully is just a game 1 issue.



When Hill is being handed the ball on rebounds and Parker is camped out in the corner, it's pretty clear who the point guard is.

Hill grabbed 7 boards compared to Tony's 1 which is another reason why he initiated the offense as much as he did. Spurs have used players anywhere from Mason Jr. to Gary Neal to bring the ball up to run a set play for the big 3 so they can make something happen. Imo often the player who brings the ball up isn't the real playmaker, Parker and Duncan were trying to carry the load in lieu of Manu but didn't execute well enough on both ends of the court in addition to the rest of the Spurs.

[Obstructed_View]

The offense was all about running stuff for the big 2 and trying to get others going in the process.
Camping Parker in the corner waiting to take a three and running half-court sets after a successful regular season of pushing the ball does precisely neither.


Often the player who brings the ball up is just a piece of the play rather than the catalyst.
Unless that player is Tony Parker, who has been the biggest catalyst for the Spurs since he was a rookie. This should be doubly the case when Manu is out.


Parker had plenty of time running the offense and also had a lot of good opportunities.
He had a quarter running the offense and the Spurs capitalized during that time. If you think that's plenty then you're delusional.


He just couldn't convert some of his usual shots and made some bad decisions in the 4th which hopefully is just a game 1 issue.
Hopefully having Hill running point when on the floor with Parker is just a game 1 issue.


Hill grabbed 7 boards compared to Tony's 1 which is another reason why he initiated the offense as much as he did. Spurs have used players anywhere from Mason Jr. to Gary Neal to bring the ball up to run a set play for the big 3 so they can make something happen. Imo often the player who brings the ball up isn't the real playmaker, Parker and Duncan were trying to carry the load in lieu of Manu but didn't execute well enough on both ends of the court in addition to the rest of the Spurs.

Wow, desperate to justify Pop's decisions much? All of the above is so stupid I'm not even going to bother to comment further on it.

[Dex]

This is all much more simple when everything is Bonner's fault.

[FkLA]

Parker isnt a choker, but I wouldnt necessarily call him clutch either. His lack of a jumpshot always makes me really uncomfortable in late game situations.

[Cane]

Camping Parker in the corner waiting to take a three and running half-court sets after a successful regular season of pushing the ball does precisely neither.

Parker wasn't camping at the corner. He got the ball from Hill and tried to make things happen for every quarter. I agree the Spurs should push the ball more but they need to defend well for that to happen which is definitely the biggest concern.



Unless that player is Tony Parker, who has been the biggest catalyst for the Spurs since he was a rookie. This should be doubly the case when Manu is out.

Yea, he just wasn't converting but Parker definitely took an increased workload.



He had a quarter running the offense and the Spurs capitalized during that time. If you think that's plenty then you're delusional.


Hopefully having Hill running point when on the floor with Parker is just a game 1 issue.



Wow, desperate to justify Pop's decisions much? All of the above is so stupid I'm not even going to bother to comment further on it.

Tbh its been a staple that the guy who brings up the ball isn't necessarily running the point. Often the ball goes to Parker or Manu straight away after its brought up. Hill is no Manu when it comes to facilitating so more Parker is needed, but you have to pace Parker too and give other Spurs some ball handling duties.

Imo you just have a skewed view of the game, Parker was the main playmaker/point and its reflected in his USG%, throughout the boxscore, and just watching how the plays were run. That doesn't mean they didn't try to use Hill at PG as well though. In the end, the Spurs nearly stole game 1 with a pathetic defensive effort from their frontcourt which is definitely the bigger concern.

[Obstructed_View]

Well we agree that Parker's not likely to shoot that poorly again, and that the frontcourt is the biggest problem. It's sad though when you think about how easily they could win with Parker bringing the ball up for four quarters AND a big front line.