Splitters weakness...

[xellos88330]

If Game 2 is called similar to game 1, I think it would be wise to not play Splitter. The man could help defensively sure, but the issue is his free throw shooting. If the Grizzlies are in fact using a foul first attitude defensively, I do not think that Splitter will be much of a help. He is atrocious at the free throw line and it would just end up being mostly empty possessions. I am not sure if his defensive presence would be enough to overcome this.

Thoughts???

[Obstructed_View]

Splitter's weakness is the guy that won't play him. Randolph and Gasol have a hard time hurting the Spurs when they're on the bench in foul trouble.

[xellos88330]

Splitter's weakness is the guy that won't play him. Randolph and Gasol have a hard time hurting the Spurs when they're on the bench in foul trouble.

Solid point. Do you think that Splitter will be able to draw that many fouls considering he is a rookie, and going against physical bigs?

[Obstructed_View]

Solid point. Do you think that Splitter will be able to draw that many fouls considering he is a rookie, and going against physical bigs?

Splitter has drawn fouls at a flabbergasting rate all year long on both ends of the floor, not to mention the fact that he is actually capable of blocking a shot now and then and, unlike Blair, Dice or Bonner, has the length to discourage guys from just shooting over him from 15 feet out. How nice would it be not to have two guys chasing the basketball around the floor because there's one guy that doesn't require a constant double team?

Go look at the box score for the Grizzlies front line, check the shooting percentage and tell me how it's possible that Splitter could have been worse.

[Nathan89]

Mark and Randolf in foul trouble sounds good to me.

The Grizz are like a mini version of the Lakers. They have two very talented bigs but no all-star sg. However they do have a better pg,talented sg in Mayo and nice defensive role players.

We clearly will have the advantage pg,sg, and maybe even sf throughout the rest of the series. They seem to have a big advantage at the pf and center position even with the resurgence of Timmy. In my eyes it is absolutely essential that we play Splitter to negate some of there advantage. We have to be able to match the size of the opponent if we want any chance. NO was able to win to day because they were capable of matching the size of Bynum with Gray. Gray doesn't even look like a talented player but Bynum couldn't budge him on the offensive end and that is all that matters. Even though Blair might look a little more talented then Splitter he doesn't have the size to compete.

Size kills. We need to match them pound for pound and grind it out.

[Nathan89]

Double post.

[pgardn]

Spitter just has not spent enough time on the floor. He has been open on pick and rolls and has failed to finish when his teammates actually trust him enough to pass the ball to him. I do not think the guards and Tim are all of the sudden going to think they can pass the ball to Tiago for any sort of advantage.

Bottom line he is a drag on an offensive minded team. I love his mobility on defense and his added length. But he is not ready. Pop or not. Its just this simple. He also is not a good rebounder in crowds, I thought his hands would be better. Time will tell.

Having stated all of the above I would still like to see us use some fouls with him. Early on maybe. I wish he would have pushed some people around when he got a chance, some hard fouls, but thats not in his nature it appears.

[coachmac87]

Spitter just has not spent enough time on the floor. He has been open on pick and rolls and has failed to finish when his teammates actually trust him enough to pass the ball to him. I do not think the guards and Tim are all of the sudden going to think they can pass the ball to Tiago for any sort of advantage.

Bottom line he is a drag on an offensive minded team. I love his mobility on defense and his added length. But he is not ready. Pop or not. Its just this simple. He also is not a good rebounder in crowds, I thought his hands would be better. Time will tell.

Having stated all of the above I would still like to see us use some fouls with him. Early on maybe. I wish he would have pushed some people around when he got a chance, some hard fouls, but thats not in his nature it appears.


But Blair is just as limited offesnively...Blair may be better at boards,but Splitter has shown that he is clearly a better defender.

[xellos88330]

Splitter has drawn fouls at a flabbergasting rate all year long on both ends of the floor, not to mention the fact that he is actually capable of blocking a shot now and then and, unlike Blair, Dice or Bonner, has the length to discourage guys from just shooting over him from 15 feet out. How nice would it be not to have two guys chasing the basketball around the floor because there's one guy that doesn't require a constant double team?

Go look at the box score for the Grizzlies front line, check the shooting percentage and tell me how it's possible that Splitter could have been worse.

The problem for me is Splitter on the offensive side of the ball. He has shown that he can't convert on his free throws. Most likely he will be met with a hard foul. If he doesn't make the shot to begin with, then you might wind up without any points. Foul trouble is always a good thing to get the bigs of the Grizz out of the game. However that is a potential 14 fouls and 14 possessions that the Spurs could lose out on if he continues his free throw shooting woes.

[rwb]

I agree that it's frustrating to see empty points go to waste with Splitter's inexcusable free throw shooting (seriously, Tiago--what the HELL), but I agree completely with Obstructed View that if he could at least be utilized early in the game to start getting the Griz in foul trouble as well get some blocks and keep Tim fresh until the end that would be a huge advantage.

I know that Pop said at the beginning of the season that he wasn't planning on using Splitter until next year and I don't think anyone expects him to be the hero of the Playoffs but he could be a lot more useful spending at least some time on the floor instead of all of his time on the freaking bench where he can't help anyone but the opposing team.

[Nathan89]

The problem for me is Splitter on the offensive side of the ball. He has shown that he can't convert on his free throws. Most likely he will be met with a hard foul. If he doesn't make the shot to begin with, then you might wind up without any points. Foul trouble is always a good thing to get the bigs of the Grizz out of the game. However that is a potential 14 fouls and 14 possessions that the Spurs could lose out on if he continues his free throw shooting woes.

19-25 combined fg for Gasol and Randolph is a much bigger problem than some missed ft's.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

The problem for me is Splitter on the offensive side of the ball. He has shown that he can't convert on his free throws. Most likely he will be met with a hard foul. If he doesn't make the shot to begin with, then you might wind up without any points. Foul trouble is always a good thing to get the bigs of the Grizz out of the game. However that is a potential 14 fouls and 14 possessions that the Spurs could lose out on if he continues his free throw shooting woes.


Opposing team's front court shooting 80% is a bigger problem than any 1-2 trips at the FT line for Splitter.

Quit being such a retard.

[rmt]

Duncan's post-game quotes:
We need to pay a little bit more attention on defense, especially myself with Mark. I gave him a bit of an easy time there trying to keep half an eye on Zach instead of focusing on Mark. I need a little more focus in that respect. With Zach I thought we did a pretty decent job, he just made some great shots all over the floor. ”

Maybe if Splitter was guarding Zach, Spurs wouldn't have to send double teams at him, have players scrambling all over the court and Duncan wouldn't have to worry about helping out on Zach.

[Obstructed_View]

The problem for me is Splitter on the offensive side of the ball. He has shown that he can't convert on his free throws. Most likely he will be met with a hard foul. If he doesn't make the shot to begin with, then you might wind up without any points. Foul trouble is always a good thing to get the bigs of the Grizz out of the game. However that is a potential 14 fouls and 14 possessions that the Spurs could lose out on if he continues his free throw shooting woes.

You're absolutely not seeing this clearly, so let me explain it:

If you shoot 50 percent from the free throw line, you're shooting terribly.

If you shoot 50 percent from the field, you're shooting great.

If they foul Splitter every time down and he shoots 50 percent, it's good offense PLUS it gets the other team's players in foul trouble while simultaneously putting the Spurs into the bonus more quickly. Even if the opposing team goes to hack-a-Splitter in the first quarter they're going to end up in the same situation, plus their bigs can't dominate on the other end.

Again, look at the goddamn box score and see what the biggest problem was. If the 55 percent shooting by the other team and the monster numbers by Gasol and Randolph don't immediately jump out at you then go have your head examined.

[Obstructed_View]

Duncan, Parker and Manu have been quietly pleading through the media for Pop to play Splitter all year long. Too bad he doesn't listen to anyone.

[biskvito]

I only remember watching one game where Splitter guarded Gasol and despite Tiago doing everything right Marc looked pretty comfortable. There are players Splitter can affect a lot but Gasol didn't seem too bothered. It was only one game though, I'd like to see another...

[The Truth #6]

I'll agree with OV and Aggie and add that when people assess Tiago's offensive skills, I think people are being too simplistic in their thinking. Tiago, I think, is actually more important on offense because he more than almost any other player on the team promotes ball movement by constantly setting picks and rolling to the basket. He does this almost more than anyone else in the league. When our offense gets stagnant, I think Tiago can be very helpful. And his physical presence on defense is even better.

To slow down Zach we have to use different approaches, and Splitter should be one of them. Having Zach have to chase Bonner around is also a strategy. I just think we should mix it up and therefore include Tiago in that overall scheme.

[Capt Bringdown]

Pop trusts other rookies, but doesn't trust Splitter - it's beyond bizarre - just flat out stupid anyway you look at it.

We've got a serviceable 7-footer who plays pretty good D glued to the bench.
Depressing.

[Obstructed_View]

I only remember watching one game where Splitter guarded Gasol and despite Tiago doing everything right Marc looked pretty comfortable. There are players Splitter can affect a lot but Gasol didn't seem too bothered. It was only one game though, I'd like to see another...

Gasol had 11 points and 8 rebounds in the game Splitter started, and 4 points and 3 rebounds in the other Memphis game where Splitter played 15 minutes.

[DPG21920]

Look, we don't know how Tiago will perform, but he has shown enough to warrant a look. If he sucks, you can pull him. But don't keep riding things that don't work.

[024]

splitter is no savior. he is just a convenient excuse for spur fans in denial about their team. "if only pop plays splitter, the spurs will be much better." they will not. this is the team spur fans are stuck with this year and that includes bonner.

next year though, i'm expecting more from splitter.

[Obstructed_View]

Look, we don't know how Tiago will perform, but he has shown enough to warrant a look. If he sucks, you can pull him. But don't keep riding things that don't work.

Aside from the fact that he's been the best defensive big this season every time he's stepped on the floor, and aside from the fact that he draws a boatload of fouls on both ends, and aside from his big production during the games he actually gets minutes, I guess we don't really have any idea how he will perform.

PS: yes, I know we're on the same side, but you aren't far enough away from the fence yet. :toast

[ploto]

Duncan's post-game quotes:
We need to pay a little bit more attention on defense, especially myself with Mark. I gave him a bit of an easy time there trying to keep half an eye on Zach instead of focusing on Mark. I need a little more focus in that respect. With Zach I thought we did a pretty decent job, he just made some great shots all over the floor. ”

The story for Duncan all year- trying to worry about 2 guys because he can not trust whoever is guarding the other one.

[DPG21920]

:lol I was referring to playoffs, but yeah, that is why I said he has shown enough to warrant a look.

[Strike]

splitter is no savior. he is just a convenient excuse for spur fans in denial about their team. "if only pop plays splitter, the spurs will be much better." they will not. this is the team spur fans are stuck with this year and that includes bonner.

next year though, i'm expecting more from splitter.

I think we'd all at least like to see if Splitter on the floor could be a difference maker, rather than being forced to watch the continuous debacle that is the Bonner/Blair front line.

[biskvito]

Gasol had 11 points and 8 rebounds in the game Splitter started, and 4 points and 3 rebounds in the other Memphis game where Splitter played 15 minutes.

Promising numbers... I thought at the time Gasol used his lenght very well against Splitter.

I'm not sold Pop will play Splitter though. That is unless someone's hurt or the team is 15+ above.

[xellos88330]

Man you people are sensitive tonight.

Why do people think that I made this thread to bash Splitter? His major weakness is indeed his free throw shooting is it not? I am simply asking if people think his defensive presence is enough to overcome possible situations with Tiago being sent to the line often.

It is a theoretical scenario given the circumstance that he gets playing time. I WANT him to play. I think his defensive presence is a huge help naturally. That is why I am only really talking about offense.

Let me rephrase my original question. If Splitter were to get playing time and get sent to the line often (should the Grizzlies continue fouling with such impunity) shooting with a FT% of 50%, do you think his value defensively is good enough to offset the 1 pt difference?

[DPG21920]

Splitter positives, from what we have seen of him, have definitely outweighed his negatives. Not only that, he positives would seemingly help out in this series and his negatives shouldn't be too big of a problem.

[rascal]

If Game 2 is called similar to game 1, I think it would be wise to not play Splitter. The man could help defensively sure, but the issue is his free throw shooting. If the Grizzlies are in fact using a foul first attitude defensively, I do not think that Splitter will be much of a help. He is atrocious at the free throw line and it would just end up being mostly empty possessions. I am not sure if his defensive presence would be enough to overcome this.

Thoughts???

He would foul out quickly. People are only hanging onto any little hope for the frontline that they could find, Splitter won't help any. He isn't playing not because he is good.

[rascal]

Splitter positives, from what we have seen of him, have definitely outweighed his negatives. Not only that, he positives would seemingly help out in this series and his negatives shouldn't be too big of a problem.

Not according to Pop.

[slick'81]

until duncan gets a legit big next to him i dont feel sa gets a ring.The closest thing spurs have to that is tiago.

Might as well see what duncan and splitter can do together for some stretches

[Obstructed_View]

He would foul out quickly.
Whoops, you accidentally left the Mahinmi broken record on. Splitter doesn't get into foul trouble.

[jjktkk]

Look, we don't know how Tiago will perform, but he has shown enough to warrant a look. If he sucks, you can pull him. But don't keep riding things that don't work.

This. When Blair, Bonner, and Dyess are struggling, it would be nice for Splitter to get in there, to see what he can do.

[TDMVPDPOY]

some fkn clowns in here should watch fkn games instead of relying on box scores, it doesnt help also with limited action from splitter due to pops manlove for the ginger bread man

[Splits]

The question that nobody on this board has answered is this: when is the last time a team has run a 5-big rotation in a playoff series?

If the answer is never, do you prefer:

a) for the Spurs to run a 5-big rotation

b) move Bonner, Blair or Dice to the 5th spot (only plays if injury or massive foul trouble)

That is the system you have to work within. So what is your choice?

[Arc]

everyone continues to jump on the bonner hate train, but the real problem is mcdyess. it's his fault that pop was forced to play bonner/blair so many minutes. i think the old man just can't cut it anymore. i've been noticing it all season. sure, he has some decent games every once in a while against soft bigs like gasoft and softwitzki, but he got worked like a cheap hooker by zbo today. we need young energy in the post to match these guys.

maybe mcdyess just wasn't ready for the playoffs, maybe his shitty performance was a fluke. iunno. but what i do know is if he continues to play like this, we're boned.

[mingus]

what infuriates me is that Splitter can play GREAT defense. we saw it against Aldridge for example. he was forcing Aldridge into tough shots all night. i'm not sure he's ready to bang with guys who carry a lot of weight and throw it around like Randolph or Gasol. he could have been ready had he played enough in the regular season. but we all know how that went. i hope i'm wrong. i'm still an advocate of him playing because nothing else is working against their frontline. it's stupid to go with the same strategy, but it think he'll continue to go with it. like i've said, Pop's decisions the last couple of years have been detrimental to the team. i don't know what his deal is.

[Obstructed_View]

Bonner is a role player whose specialty is three pointers. He's also not a first, second or third string NBA center and he's getting starter's minutes.

[Obstructed_View]

everyone continues to jump on the bonner hate train, but the real problem is mcdyess. it's his fault that pop was forced to play bonner/blair so many minutes. i think the old man just can't cut it anymore. i've been noticing it all season. sure, he has some decent games every once in a while against soft bigs like gasoft and softwitzki, but he got worked like a cheap hooker by zbo today. we need young energy in the post to match these guys.

maybe mcdyess just wasn't ready for the playoffs, maybe his shitty performance was a fluke. iunno. but what i do know is if he continues to play like this, we're boned.

You don't have to blame Bonner for Dice sucking, but at some point you have to blame Pop for Bonner sucking while Splitter sits on the bench.

[TDMVPDPOY]

what infuriates me is that Splitter can play GREAT defense. we saw it against Aldridge for example. he was forcing Aldridge into tough shots all night. i'm not sure he's ready to bang with guys who carry a lot of weight and throw it around like Randolph or Gasol. he could have been ready had he played enough in the regular season. but we all know how that went. i hope i'm wrong. i'm still an advocate of him playing because nothing else is working against their frontline. it's stupid to go with the same strategy, but it think he'll continue to go with it. like i've said, Pop's decisions the last couple of years have been detrimental to the team. i don't know what his deal is.

splitter did well against bynum in there first meeting, i see why not he cant keep his feet against the grizz frontline...heck the grizz even chuck in that haddedi player just for laughs

[Mugen]

The question that nobody on this board has answered is this: when is the last time a team has run a 5-big rotation in a playoff series?

If the answer is never, do you prefer:

a) for the Spurs to run a 5-big rotation

b) move Bonner, Blair or Dice to the 5th spot (only plays if injury or massive foul trouble)

That is the system you have to work within. So what is your choice?

Before the season, I thought the rotation should have been:

TD/Tiago Starting
Dice as the 1st big off the bench
Blair or Bonner as the 4th big depending on the matchups.

I still think that's the best way to match up with the Grizz. Obviously, it won't happen because Tiago won't be getting minutes this series but that could really even the size disparity between the two teams.

IMO, this is not a good series for DeJuan. His limited height is really exposed against this MEM frontline. Bonner will never be benched for Tiago so the only hope is that Tiago gets mins. in favor of DeJuan. Sadly, it won't happen this year unless the Spurs go down 3-1 or 3-0....

[Arc]

You don't have to blame Bonner for Dice sucking, but at some point you have to blame Pop for Bonner sucking while Splitter sits on the bench.

no argument here. splitter is clearly our second best big and should definitely be playing huge minutes alongside duncan. however, pop is determined to win the hardest way possible for some reason i can't figure out.

[mingus]

splitter did well against bynum in there first meeting, i see why not he cant keep his feet against the grizz frontline...heck the grizz even chuck in that haddedi player just for laughs

like i said, i don't know what Pop's deal is. he's got a couple screws loose. i don't expect him to re-gain his sanity over the the next couple of days either. i don't expect a different gameplan because the guy even said himself that the gameplan was fine because they "didn't lose by 25," or something to that effect. yeah, they didn't lose buy 25 but Gasol and Randolph put up numbers that looked like what the twin towers used to put up. a combined 49 points and 23 rebounds. the best part? they shot 19/25, right at 80% :wow.

nope. don't need to fix anything. :lmao

[Splits]

no argument here. splitter is clearly our second best big and should definitely be playing huge minutes alongside duncan. however, pop is determined to win the hardest way possible for some reason i can't figure out.

Who should not be playing: Blair, Bonner, or Dice? The 5th big spot only plays in emergency situations. Nobody runs a 5-big rotation. So who gets 0 minutes if Splitter plays?

[Mugen]

:lol Not sure why people don't understand why Tiago still isn't playing.

the short answer is Pop's arrogance.

He's always preached system over talent so what does it mean when a guy who missed training camp plays better than a guy who's been here for 4 years and who Pop considers the "best shooter" he's ever seen....

Pop is a good coach but all coaches have their downfalls. Pop's arrogance has cost us a title in the past and it's costing this team once again.

Tiago has done everything asked for him this season even when the odds have been stacked against him by his coach. Yet Pop's stubbornness still holds this team back because for whatever reason Tiago still hasn't "gotten over himself yet" or these playoffs just aren't for him.....

I've said it before and it holds true now. The failure of this coach and the front office to find a suitable running partner for TD is a slap in the face to Duncan after all he's given them. They finally have a guy that can ease the defensive load for Timmy and Pop sits him next to Chris fucking Quinn.

[Spursfan 87]

splitter did well against bynum in there first meeting, i see why not he cant keep his feet against the grizz frontline...heck the grizz even chuck in that haddedi player just for laughs

This

He also did great job on Nene in last game against Denver. He can hold his own against bigger players, and he can get them in foul trouble. I dont care if he cant make a FT, he can play defense and that all that matters.

Pop is just stupid for not playing him.

[xellos88330]

I was just thinking something. I know, I know.... RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!!!

Tiago was known as a banger/physical presence in Europe. In the Euro game, the refs seem to swallow their whistles when there is some good physicality under the basket. That is why more and more Euros are flopping. Now to my point.

It seems to be the consensus that in NBA playoff basketball, the players can get away with physical play more often than in the regular season. Tiago is used to playing those types of games already. If the refs are indeed letting the physicality of the game run free, then maybe Tiago wouldn't be called for those touch fouls.

[Arc]

Who should not be playing: Blair, Bonner, or Dice? The 5th big spot only plays in emergency situations. Nobody runs a 5-big rotation. So who gets 0 minutes if Splitter plays?

it would either be dice or blair. people like to hate on the bonnerman, but he spreads the floor which allows our guards to penetrate easier.

[Splits]

I was just thinking something. I know, I know.... RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!!!

Tiago was known as a banger/physical presence in Europe. In the Euro game, the refs seem to swallow their whistles when there is some good physicality under the basket. That is why more and more Euros are flopping. Now to my point.

It seems to be the consensus that in NBA playoff basketball, the players can get away with physical play more often than in the regular season. Tiago is used to playing those types of games already. If the refs are indeed letting the physicality of the game run free, then maybe Tiago wouldn't be called for those touch fouls.

There were 80 combined FTA in the game today. 80. So your supposition that "if the refs are indeed letting the physicality of the game run free" is based on a fantasy. But then again, so are the dreams of all of the posters who agree with you...

[Splits]

it would either be dice or blair. people like to hate on the bonnerman, but he spreads the floor which allows our guards to penetrate easier.

Finally, some progress. Someone finally answers the question, despite my disagreeing with the answer. +1 Arc.

[Spursfan 87]

it would either be dice or blair. people like to hate on the bonnerman, but he spreads the floor which allows our guards to penetrate easier.

Blair

[Obstructed_View]

Who should not be playing: Blair, Bonner, or Dice? The 5th big spot only plays in emergency situations. Nobody runs a 5-big rotation. So who gets 0 minutes if Splitter plays?

:bang :bang

You ask, but you don't listen. Maybe you just don't want to know.

Let's try this again:

Depth chart (rotation):

Center: Splitter / Dice
Power Forward: Duncan / Blair

Role Player: Matt Bonner

A three point specialist doesn't need to play more than a few minutes unless he's on a crazy hot shooting streak. You put him in at the end of quarters and in offensive situations and you draw up plays for him. He can get minutes at any frontline position, including small forward to take advantage of matchups.

If your three point specialist needs 25 minutes in a playoff game to get off four three point shots, you're doing it wrong.

[Obstructed_View]

I was just thinking something. I know, I know.... RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!!!

Tiago was known as a banger/physical presence in Europe. In the Euro game, the refs seem to swallow their whistles when there is some good physicality under the basket. That is why more and more Euros are flopping. Now to my point.

It seems to be the consensus that in NBA playoff basketball, the players can get away with physical play more often than in the regular season. Tiago is used to playing those types of games already. If the refs are indeed letting the physicality of the game run free, then maybe Tiago wouldn't be called for those touch fouls.

I'm pretty sure you're the only person who's concerned about Splitter getting into foul trouble. He usually doesn't. You've got him mixed up with the last center-that-pop-refused-to-play-who's-better-than-Matt-Bonner. Splitter draws a lot of fouls, both offensive and defensive.

[dbreiden83080]

Pop is Splitters main weakness. For whatever reason he hates him and refuses to admit Bonner is useless in games like today.

[Splits]

:bang :bang

You ask, but you don't listen. Maybe you just don't want to know.

Let's try this again:

Depth chart (rotation):

Center: Splitter / Dice
Power Forward: Duncan / Blair

Role Player: Matt Bonner

A three point specialist doesn't need to play more than a few minutes unless he's on a crazy hot shooting streak. You put him in at the end of quarters and in offensive situations and you draw up plays for him. He can get minutes at any frontline position, including small forward to take advantage of matchups.

If your three point specialist needs 25 minutes in a playoff game to get off four three point shots, you're doing it wrong.

LOL @ Bonner playing the 3!!!! :downspin:

You advocate a 5-big rotation, because the last time I checked there was no "role player" minutes available between the 4 and the 5. According to this great plan, we might see a dynamic front line of Dice/Blair/Bonner!!! I can think of a thousand things better than that, and Blair/Bonner is on that list.

Bonner isn't a 3, for even 1 minute. You can't run a 5-big rotation unless you are going to try something nobody has successfully implemented before. So the question remains, who is the emergency 5th big behind Splitter? Bonner/Blair/Dice are your choices.

[Libri]

:bang :bang

You ask, but you don't listen. Maybe you just don't want to know.

Let's try this again:

Depth chart (rotation):

Center: Splitter / Dice
Power Forward: Duncan / Blair

Role Player: Matt Bonner

A three point specialist doesn't need to play more than a few minutes unless he's on a crazy hot shooting streak. You put him in at the end of quarters and in offensive situations and you draw up plays for him. He can get minutes at any frontline position, including small forward to take advantage of matchups.

If your three point specialist needs 25 minutes in a playoff game to get off four three point shots, you're doing it wrong.

IMO, having Splitter and Duncan together would definitely help limit or make it more difficult for the Griz to get points in the paint. Memphis had 40 points in the paint today.

[rmt]

it is pretty obvious.

His positive is his defense and mobility

His negative is anything to do with offense

Gasol/Randolph were 19-25 (76%) today. I think Splitter would help with guarding them plus penetration.

His pick and roll with Manu looks great to me.

[Mugen]

Pop is Splitters main weakness. For whatever reason he hates him and refuses to admit Bonner is useless in games like today.

Bonner wasn't useless today. He hit big shots which you're probably never going to see again.

Dice and Blair were worse. Tiago would be extremely effective this series if he was actually played but you're going to have to wait til next year to see that.

[Splits]

Bonner wasn't useless today. He hit big shots which you're probably never going to see again.

Dice and Blair were worse. Tiago would be extremely effective this series if he was actually played but you're going to have to wait til next year to see that.

Holy crap Mugen gave Bonner props.

The problem I see is, if Splitter is in the rotation, who sits? You can't run 5 bigs. Someone has to be told before the game, "you're the emergency big". Is that Dice? Blair? Bonner? Or do you divide the limited 4/5 minutes between 5 guys and risk none of them being able to get into a groove? These aren't easy questions, and it is why Pop gets paid to take the blame if it doesn't work, or deflect the credit if it does.

[dbreiden83080]

Bonner wasn't useless today. He hit big shots which you're probably never going to see again.
.


His plus/minus ratio was in the fuckin toilet. A big three that came after he got lit up on D by Randolph and company14 times in a row does not impress me..

[Obstructed_View]

IMO, having Splitter and Duncan together would definitely help limit or make it more difficult for the Griz to get points in the paint. Memphis had 40 points in the paint today.

Yeah, but that's the guards' fault.

[Obstructed_View]

Holy crap Mugen gave Bonner props.

The problem I see is, if Splitter is in the rotation, who sits? You can't run 5 bigs. Someone has to be told before the game, "you're the emergency big". Is that Dice? Blair? Bonner? Or do you divide the limited 4/5 minutes between 5 guys and risk none of them being able to get into a groove? These aren't easy questions, and it is why Pop gets paid to take the blame if it doesn't work, or deflect the credit if it does.

Moron, your bus is leaving.

Bonner should not be in the rotation. Bonner should get situational minutes and his shots per minute should be very high. He should be in at the end of every quarter and every situation where you want to draw up a play for a three pointer. It's amazing how having someone who does this will actually "spread the floor" for a change, so you can use him as a decoy since the opposing front line can't iso and feast on him.

He should not be the starting center, nor (and more importantly) should he be the center who ends the game. He should not be the backup center, he should not be the third string center. He should not have a position, he should have a role. Hence the term "role player". Popovich wants him to be Robert Horry, and has paid him accordingly. Doesn't change what he's not. Funny that the complete bitchslapping the Grizzlies (and basically every front line) put on the Spurs isn't enough to open your eyes, but smarter people than you have failed to see reality. :pop:

:lol "getting into a groove".

[Mugen]

His plus/minus ratio was in the fuckin toilet. A big three that came after he got lit up on D by Randolph and company14 times in a row does not impress me..

Z-Bo was lighting Dice and Blair up just as easily. At least Bonner hit some big shots to get us back in the game. He wasn't the reason we lost today.

+/- is a bullshit stat. It's the same stat that usually favors Bonner :lol

TD's defense was pretty bad today as well. I can live with Z-Bo getting 20+ but Gasol getting 20+ is absolutely inexcusable.


Holy crap Mugen gave Bonner props.

The problem I see is, if Splitter is in the rotation, who sits? You can't run 5 bigs. Someone has to be told before the game, "you're the emergency big". Is that Dice? Blair? Bonner? Or do you divide the limited 4/5 minutes between 5 guys and risk none of them being able to get into a groove? These aren't easy questions, and it is why Pop gets paid to take the blame if it doesn't work, or deflect the credit if it does.

I've already said in this thread that Blair should be the odd man out. Blair and Bonner are both situational bigs. They each bring a different skillset to the table (Bonn with his 3pt shooting and Blair with his offensive rebounding/hustle) and should be played when that skillset can be used most effectively. Bonner can help this series because his 3pt shooting can open up space for Timmy to drive against Gasol. Everything Blair does well can be equaled by Tiago who'll also play better defense.

[Splits]

Moron, your bus is leaving.

Bonner should not be in the rotation. Bonner should get situational minutes and his shots per minute should be very high. He should be in at the end of every quarter and every situation where you want to draw up a play for a three pointer. It's amazing how having someone who does this will actually "spread the floor" for a change, so you can use him as a decoy since the opposing front line can't iso and feast on him.

He should not be the starting center, nor (and more importantly) should he be the center who ends the game. He should not be the backup center, he should not be the third string center. He should not have a position, he should have a role. Hence the term "role player". Popovich wants him to be Robert Horry, and has paid him accordingly. Doesn't change what he's not. Funny that the complete bitchslapping the Grizzlies (and basically every front line) put on the Spurs isn't enough to open your eyes, but smarter people than you have failed to see reality. :pop:

:lol "getting into a groove".

And there we have it. According to OV, Bonner should be the 5th big. Finally a confession. Albeit on the eve of a game where Bonner was the sole reason we were in the game at the end, dropping two clutch threes to keep us in the game while TP/RJ/GN/GH3/ laid humongous piles of shit. Well done OV. You should apply for Pop's job.

[Splits]

I've already said in this thread that Blair should be the odd man out.

1 vote for Blair (Mugen)
1 vote for Bonner (OV)
1 vote for Splitter (Me)

[Arc]

bonner isn't just any 3 point specialist, he's the best 3 point specialist in the league. people have to respect his shot. if they don't, stuff like today happens. we should have won after those two bombs, but we gave it away. however, i do agree that bonner shouldn't play major minutes, and he should only play when a 7 footer is on the floor... which should be all the time.

duncan should be averaging 35+ minutes a game, and splitter 40 minutes a game. splitter's still young after all.

[Splits]

bonner isn't just any 3 point specialist, he's the best 3 point specialist in the league. people have to respect his shot. if they don't, stuff like today happens. we should have won after those two bombs, but we gave it away. however, i do agree that bonner shouldn't play major minutes, and he should only play when a 7 footer is on the floor... which should be all the time.

duncan should be averaging 35+ minutes a game, and splitter 40 minutes a game. splitter's still young after all.

Ok, TD 35+, Splitter 40, Bonner "major minutes.... which should be all the time"

So Arc is down for Blair and Dice sitting so Tiago can get 40+. Nice to see people going on record.

[Mugen]

1 vote for Blair (Mugen)
1 vote for Bonner (OV)
1 vote for Splitter (Me)

What does Blair bring to this series that Splitter can't equal or surpass?

Is a slightly better offensive rebounder really worth the dropoff in defense you get with Blair/Splitter?

[Arc]

Ok, TD 35+, Splitter 40, Bonner "major minutes.... which should be all the time"

So Arc is down for Blair and Dice sitting so Tiago can get 40+. Nice to see people going on record.

lol you misunderstood.

splitter
duncan
dice
bonner

blair is the odd man out this year. although if dice plays like a huge turd again, i may reconsider.

[ElNono]

If Game 2 is called similar to game 1, I think it would be wise to not play Splitter. The man could help defensively sure, but the issue is his free throw shooting. If the Grizzlies are in fact using a foul first attitude defensively, I do not think that Splitter will be much of a help. He is atrocious at the free throw line and it would just end up being mostly empty possessions. I am not sure if his defensive presence would be enough to overcome this.

Thoughts???

Non-Issue. If you play him with other guys like TP, TD, Neal, you don't have to run the offense through him. You want him to give you a gain on the defensive end. Plus it's not like Bonner takes more than 4 or 5 shots a game or Blair has any offensive game anyways. The only concern is hack-a-Splitter, in which case you let him try to make the free-throws a few times and then pull him out if he can't make them.

[Splits]

What does Blair bring to this series that Splitter can't equal or surpass?

Is a slightly better offensive rebounder really worth the dropoff in defense you get with Blair/Splitter?

That's a fair argument, albeit at the margins. I wouldn't mind seeing Tiago slip into the 4th big slot ahead of Blair against the Griz front line to see what happens, but most likely that isn't a game-changer. Also, Blair's offensive rebounds are mostly a product of his misses when he just chucks shit up off the glass (3-9 shooting).

[Splits]

lol you misunderstood.

splitter
duncan
dice
bonner

blair is the odd man out this year. although if dice plays like a huge turd again, i may reconsider.

My bad.

2 votes for Blair (Mugen/Arc)
1 vote for Bonner (OV)
1 vote for Splitter (Me)

I also agree with the flexibility argument that if Dice continues to matchup and play like poop, "save" him for another series.

[mingus]

i don't know why people bring up Splitter's FT problem as if it's going to work against the Spurs. the team employing that strategy is taking more of a chance. if Grizz are employing that strategy, they're f'n desperate. which is a good thing. it gets their guys in foul trouble too. you can't employ it all game if you're the Grizz. if your the Spurs, weather the storm, and wait until they stop fouling, which they will have to at some point.

[NRHector]

Splitter weakness is the stupid coach that he has

[LongtimeSpursFan]

Splitter has drawn fouls at a flabbergasting rate all year long on both ends of the floor, not to mention the fact that he is actually capable of blocking a shot now and then and, unlike Blair, Dice or Bonner, has the length to discourage guys from just shooting over him from 15 feet out. How nice would it be not to have two guys chasing the basketball around the floor because there's one guy that doesn't require a constant double team?

Go look at the box score for the Grizzlies front line, check the shooting percentage and tell me how it's possible that Splitter could have been worse.

Zach Randolph would eat Splitter up for lunch. Splitter is no where strong enough nor experienced enough to keep Randolph out of the low post area. While I like to see Splitter get some minutes during the playoffs he would be much better off against bigs that are more perimeter oriented.

[TD 21]

They can adjust if the Grizzlies play hack-a-Splitter and he struggles mightily at the line. But they can't do without him in this series. It's abundantly clear that this team can't defend big, burly centers with decent or better skill. Bynum, Bogut, Milicic and Gasol have all taken turns destroying this team inside, because they don't have a single player with the size and strength to contain them. Splitter's not strong, but he is long and he's a savvy defender, so outside of Duncan, he's their best shot at adequately defending these players.

Whether they pull this series out or not, they're going to need a specific big in the off season, if they're serious about winning another championship in the Duncan era. It's got to be a starting caliber big who's big and strong enough to defend power fives, yet mobile and nimble enough to cover finesse fours. Splitter can be a nice compliment to Duncan, but that's not enough. Neither is a true center and even if they were, the absence of a third such big with size is glaring.

[ElNono]

Zach Randolph would eat Splitter up for lunch. Splitter is no where strong enough nor experienced enough to keep Randolph out of the low post area. While I like to see Splitter get some minutes during the playoffs he would be much better off against bigs that are more perimeter oriented.

Splitter should fare ok against Gasol though. Slow-footed big, physical... plus Tiago is a great help defender under the rim... You can tandem him with Dice. Dice gets Zbo and Tiago gets Arthur/Gasol. Make ZBo take jumpshots and have a legit 7' against anybody wanting to drive. He should be also able to grab more than 3 boards in 20+ mins...

[Splits]

They can adjust if the Grizzlies play hack-a-Splitter and he struggles mightily at the line. But they can't do without him in this series. It's abundantly clear that this team can't defend big, burly centers with decent or better skill. Bynum, Bogut, Milicic and Gasol have all taken turns destroying this team inside, because they don't have a single player with the size and strength to contain them. Splitter's not strong, but he is long and he's a savvy defender, so outside of Duncan, he's their best shot at adequately defending these players.

Whether they pull this series out or not, they're going to need a specific big in the off season, if they're serious about winning another championship in the Duncan era. It's got to be a starting caliber big who's big and strong enough to defend power fives, yet mobile and nimble enough to cover finesse fours. Splitter can be a nice compliment to Duncan, but that's not enough. Neither is a true center and even if they were, the absence of a third such big with size is glaring.

I think they are also missing a 6th, 7th, and 8th big to play along the other 3 bigs. Out of 12 dressed positions, we should have at least 11 bigs. Perhaps Splitter could run some 2-guard while Novak runs point and everything will be solved. Perhaps that awesome BIG line of Gasol/Bynum/Odom is UNFUCKINGBEATABLE because being BIG is all that matters. Go to sleep, your ramblings make no sense.

[ElNono]

I think they are also missing a 6th, 7th, and 8th big to play along the other 3 bigs. Out of 12 dressed positions, we should have at least 11 bigs. Perhaps Splitter could run some 2-guard while Novak runs point and everything will be solved. Perhaps that awesome BIG line of Gasol/Bynum/Odom is UNFUCKINGBEATABLE because being BIG is all that matters. Go to sleep, your ramblings make no sense.

You make sense? :lol

I understood him perfectly...

[Mugen]

Zach Randolph would eat Splitter up for lunch. Splitter is no where strong enough nor experienced enough to keep Randolph out of the low post area. While I like to see Splitter get some minutes during the playoffs he would be much better off against bigs that are more perimeter oriented.

All three of those statements are wrong, tbh.

But moot point. Splitter won't get time in this series or the playoffs til Spurs are desperate.

[ElNono]

All three of those statements are wrong, tbh.

But moot point. Splitter won't get time in this series or the playoffs til Spurs are desperate.

I don't even think 'desperate'... I only imagine him out there if there's some major foul trouble and Novak has the flu or something...

[Mugen]

I don't even think 'desperate'... I only imagine him out there if there's some major foul trouble and Novak has the flu or something...

Blair/Dice both had 5 fouls today and still a DNP. You and I both know that if Bonner picked up 5 that Pop would have put RJ on Z-Bo before settling on Tiago.

It's just frustrating because this series is a perfect matchup for Tiago. You can put him on Gasol and let Timmy play Z-Bo and that size advantage MEM has is basically neutralized.

Pop has coached like a fucking idiot since the All Star Break, tbh.

[ElNono]

I don't know why you don't understand that's not fair to the team... Obviously missing training camp really sealed the deal... Just not enough time to get him ready for the playoffs...

[carina_gino20]

Tiago is still a big question mark in the playoffs, of course, but from what I've seen from him this season, he seems like a quick learner. Plus, I'd take his 50% FT shooting if that means he's disrupting shots on the other end and drawing fouls on their bigs. I don't know if he'll get more respect than what TD's getting but I sure would love to see him try.

Then again, Pop has shown all season long that defense is not his priority. I wouldn't expect him to change anything drastically after one game.

[TD 21]

I think they are also missing a 6th, 7th, and 8th big to play along the other 3 bigs. Out of 12 dressed positions, we should have at least 11 bigs. Perhaps Splitter could run some 2-guard while Novak runs point and everything will be solved. Perhaps that awesome BIG line of Gasol/Bynum/Odom is UNFUCKINGBEATABLE because being BIG is all that matters. Go to sleep, your ramblings make no sense.

Are you fucking retarded? That wasn't the typical "play Splitter/bench Bonner" post. And even if it was, who cares? I don't give a damn how many times it's been said, it bears repeating. Why else do you think this team made Bynum, Bogut, Milicic and now Gasol look like prime Chamberlain, Abdul-Jabbar, Olajuwon and O'Neal? It wasn't a coincidence.

Take this series for example. Because of how their front court is built (and because this coach is a retard), they can't afford to have their best option to defend the opposition's best player defending him. Duncan should actually be the primary Randolph defender, because he's the only big with the length and enough strength to potentially do an adequate job. But they can't have him defend Randolph, because that would leave Gasol with a significant mismatch. So what's happening is, they're at a disadvantage in both match-ups (obviously Duncan is better than Gasol, but Gasol's got him by two inches and a lot more pounds than their listings suggest, so from a physical standpoint, he's at a disadvantage). Their best chance would be to play Duncan and Splitter together for long stretches. But that makes too much sense.

They need a big who has the mass to defend Gasol, to free Duncan up to be the primary Randolph defender. In other match-ups, such as the Mavs, they need someone mobile enough to defend Nowitzki, so that Duncan can defend Chandler. In other words, Duncan is without a true position defensively at this point in his career. As such, he needs a specific big next to him, who can do an adequate job of both, so that they can choose the best match-up for Duncan depending on the opponent. Duncan shouldn't have to be the primary defender against power fives.

[Splits]

Are you fucking retarded? That wasn't the typical "play Splitter/bench Bonner" post. And even if it was, who cares? I don't give a damn how many times it's been said, it bears repeating. Why else do you think this team made Bynum, Bogut, Milicic and now Gasol look like prime Chamberlain, Abdul-Jabbar, Olajuwon and O'Neal? It wasn't a coincidence.

Take this series for example. Because of how their front court is built (and because this coach is a retard), they can't afford to have their best option to defend the opposition's best player defending him. Duncan should actually be the primary Randolph defender, because he's the only big with the length and enough strength to potentially do an adequate job. But they can't have him defend Randolph, because that would leave Gasol with a significant mismatch. So what's happening is, they're at a disadvantage in both match-ups (obviously Duncan is better than Gasol, but Gasol's got him by two inches and a lot more pounds than their listings suggest, so from a physical standpoint, he's at a disadvantage). Their best chance would be to play Duncan and Splitter together for long stretches. But that makes too much sense.

They need a big who has the mass to defend Gasol, to free Duncan up to be the primary Randolph defender. In other match-ups, such as the Mavs, they need someone mobile enough to defend Nowitzki, so that Duncan can defend Chandler. In other words, Duncan is without a true position defensively at this point in his career. As such, he needs a specific big next to him, who can do an adequate job of both, so that they can choose the best match-up for Duncan depending on the opponent. Duncan shouldn't have to be the primary defender against power fives.

You just ramble on and on and on... I can't even figure out what you're saying. Is it that Tim needs a shoulder to cry on as he gets old and that Splitter could be that guy but really couldn't so the Spurs need to find a 3rd big out of the anus of a unicorn?

[ElNono]

TD21, I'm not sure Tim on ZBo to start the game makes sense, because there's a real possibility of foul trouble. Dice didn't have a great game today, but ZBo was actually checked ok in the 1st quarter or so by Antonio. The thing is,Tim will need those 12 minutes of rest or so and Dice probably even more. That's when you end up with the mismatches. Blair on ZBo,Matt on Gasol, etc.

To close the game I agree Tim should take ZBo and a banger-type of guy on Gasol. Could be Dice, but after that, it's Tiago or bust.

[TD 21]

Re-read it; it makes perfect sense. I'm not suggesting it'll be easy or that they'll be able to acquire the ideal big, but they have enough assets now (McDyess' partially guaranteed contract, Blair, Anderson, 1st round pick) to potentially get a quality one, even if it means taking a gamble on a talented player who's fallen out of favor.

ElNono, they need to take their chances and hope that Duncan's reputation helps him out some. But they can't worry about that. Top players have to defend other top players all the time. Rotation wise, they could work it out, so as to avoid/limit the match-ups you're talking about.

[Cane]

I'd like to see Splitter have some minutes but lets not forget that he can get pushed around relatively easily by bigger and stronger players which the Grizzlies have in their frontcourt. Gasol would just play bully ball against Splitter (Marc's strength/weight overpowers even Duncan/Dice) but maybe that'd open up opportunities for the Spurs guards to strip the ball.

Another huge exploitable disadvantage against Splitter in this match-up is that he seems like he's below-average when it comes to basic NBA rebounding and boxing out. Thats just asking for trouble with Randolph on the court but at least Splitter is one hell of a mobile big body on the floor which the Spurs haven't had in a while.

[++SaiNt TiAg0++]

:bang :bang

You ask, but you don't listen. Maybe you just don't want to know.

Let's try this again:

Depth chart (rotation):

Center: Splitter / Dice
Power Forward: Duncan / Blair

Role Player: Matt Bonner

A three point specialist doesn't need to play more than a few minutes unless he's on a crazy hot shooting streak. You put him in at the end of quarters and in offensive situations and you draw up plays for him. He can get minutes at any frontline position, including small forward to take advantage of matchups.

If your three point specialist needs 25 minutes in a playoff game to get off four three point shots, you're doing it wrong.

im glad your breaking it down point by point fact after fact, i always try to summarize it and no one listens maybe i suck at it lol but i would think they know all these pro's and con's when comparing the 2 & watching closely. i think even the dumbest spurs fans are realizing this is just ridiculous.

my friend erika sent me a text in the 4th saying "youre right matt bonner sucks" hahah i was like wow even she noticed!!!... what in the hell is going on with pop ...seriously alzheimer's ? dementia? alcoholism? over-analyzing ? biased?

has he really turned into a complete dumb ass?? i just dont see how it could make sense in the slightest way! a never ending nightmare for us die hard spurs fans... the demise of coach pop.take your piece of shit assistant with you, he looks like hes on meth!

[++SaiNt TiAg0++]

i think people are looking at whole games rather than individual play and thats understandable, however when your a psycho fan you zero in on all postitions from time to time, and notice whos getting ass raped. thats all. i hope all the bonner suck/free tiago talk at least wake more ppl up. who knows maybe theyll zero in on bonner and have an epiphany. we need TIAGO chants at the AT&T!!

[Splits]

my friend erika sent me a text in the 4th saying "youre right matt bonner sucks" hahah i was like wow even she noticed!!!... what in the hell is going on with pop ...seriously alzheimer's ? dementia? alcoholism? over-analyzing ? biased?


Wow, your blind/cokehead friend "erika" must have missed the game by being on the receiving end of a glory hole in the 400 level bathroom if she didn't catch Bonner dropping two clutch threes to give us the lead in the last two minutes. She must have gotten the teabag hammer layed down on her face to have missed that. What a slut.

[Splits]

i think people are looking at whole games rather than individual play and thats understandable, however when your a psycho fan you zero in on all postitions from time to time, and notice whos getting ass raped. thats all. i hope all the bonner suck/free tiago talk at least wake more ppl up. who knows maybe theyll zero in on bonner and have an epiphany. we need TIAGO chants at the AT&T!!

fortunately ticket prices are high enough that you can't afford one.

[ColinB]

Do you guys even watch the games?

Everyone acts like Bonner was the only player abused by the Memphis bigs. Everyone played horrible D. And I've wanted Bonner out of the rotation this whole year.

If you ask me, Blair should be the fifth "big." You guys can claim that at least he rebounds unlike Bonner, but that is practically negated when he grabs an offensive board and just throws up a brick/block. His defense is as bad as Bonner's. Help defense might actually be worse. He is a very dumb player and is not ready for the playoffs. A player of his size needs to develop a jump shot to be consistent. Hell, a ten footer would be nice.

[temujin]

This thread makes no sense.

Sure it would make a perfect sense to play Splitter.
Foul prone? Yes in the RS when the refs call wispers, and he was used to the much much more physical games of Euroleague. In the PO, refs tend to let it go a bit more, and I am sure Splitter would get away with a lot of "fouls" down low.
Can't hit FTs? Duncan said hi, yesterday.
Bonner pathetic on defense? Spot the difference against terrible bigs of lottery teams all season long.
Blair looked like a kid playing boys, in the middle? He won't become 6'9'' in 2 days.
Dice looking 37? Amazing.

We all know very well Splitter will NOT play, not until the series is out of hands for good.
Pop is a military.
An old military.
They stick to their plans. Even if the plans are dead wrong.

[spurs50_]

i hope dice retires. cause splitter will never get on the floor.

[jag]

Splitman4evah:

Blair, Bonner and Tiago should all be used as the situation calls for it. Blair is a high energy guy who can bang with, and at time dominate, guys in the low post who aren't incredibly long or overly powerful. He would be a nice player to match up with guys like Carl Landry and possibly Kenyon Martin.

Bonner can pretty much be used against anyone because of what he brings to the table. But idealy, i'd like to see him used against guys who dominate the low post defensively but not offensively. He can spread the floor and take a defensive minded, opposing big man out of the paint to free up penetration, and also doesn't have to worry about being destroyed while on defense. Guys like Kendrick Perkins, Serge Ibaka and Marcus Camby come to mind.

Splitter should be used to match size for size. A good example would be these frontcourt matchups:
Duncan - Gasol
Splitter - Randolph
Jefferson - S. Young

When Duncan needs a breather, you bring in Dice. When Splitter needs a breather and D. Arthur comes in, you bring in Bonner.

As a 6'7" center, Blair should only be used when the matchups are favorable. He's not your everyday kind of starter/player. I don't know about you, but it doesn't appear that Blair matches up well with either Gasol, or Randolph.

[Horse]

Spitter just has not spent enough time on the floor. He has been open on pick and rolls and has failed to finish when his teammates actually trust him enough to pass the ball to him. I do not think the guards and Tim are all of the sudden going to think they can pass the ball to Tiago for any sort of advantage.

Bottom line he is a drag on an offensive minded team. I love his mobility on defense and his added length. But he is not ready. Pop or not. Its just this simple. He also is not a good rebounder in crowds, I thought his hands would be better. Time will tell.

Having stated all of the above I would still like to see us use some fouls with him. Early on maybe. I wish he would have pushed some people around when he got a chance, some hard fouls, but thats not in his nature it appears.
I would'nt want him to shoot anything but layups, however in this series especially we need his size, rebounding and D. We don't need him to score a point memphis is not an offensive powerhouse.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

it is pretty obvious.

His positive is his defense and mobility

His negative is anything to do with offense

His adjusted points per 48 is higher than any big on our team not named Tim. He also has the highest FG% on the team, and is the third best offensive rebounder on the team after Tim and Dice.

Quit pulling stats out of your ass.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

LOL @ Bonner playing the 3!!!! :downspin:

You advocate a 5-big rotation, because the last time I checked there was no "role player" minutes available between the 4 and the 5. According to this great plan, we might see a dynamic front line of Dice/Blair/Bonner!!! I can think of a thousand things better than that, and Blair/Bonner is on that list.

Bonner isn't a 3, for even 1 minute. You can't run a 5-big rotation unless you are going to try something nobody has successfully implemented before. So the question remains, who is the emergency 5th big behind Splitter? Bonner/Blair/Dice are your choices.


You're a dumbass. he said Bonner was a situational three point shooter, not in the rotation at small forward.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Where did you hear this? Splitter was known as one of the softest centers in Europe. His nickname in Spain was "Big Pussy".

Flopping is banned in Euroleague. You hardly ever see a flop in Euroleague. Because in Euroleague if you flop, the ref will not call it and instead they call a tech on you.

Then the other team gets 4 free throws plus the ball. There is only flopping allowed in the NBA.

Where do you come up with this shit? His showdown with Marc Gasol in Gasol's last year in Europe was widely observed as both had high draft potential. Tiago got the better of that matchup, and did it as the only true big on the court for his team.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

I'd like to see Splitter have some minutes but lets not forget that he can get pushed around relatively easily by bigger and stronger players which the Grizzlies have in their frontcourt. Gasol would just play bully ball against Splitter (Marc's strength/weight overpowers even Duncan/Dice) but maybe that'd open up opportunities for the Spurs guards to strip the ball.

.

Gasol couldn't bully Splitter in Europe, and he was 20 lbs. heavier over there than he is now.

[jag]

Gasol couldn't bully Splitter in Europe, and he was 20 lbs. heavier over there than he is now.

I think Splitter would work out better matched up against Randolph as opposed to Gasol.

Randolph is going to bully his way into the paint against anyone on the Spurs roster. He gets his shots off at strange angles and uses his body really well to create enough space while shooting. If you put Duncan on him, you risk him getting into foul trouble. With Splitter, you don't have to worry about foul trouble and he's already shown he can bang down low. Randolph is barely 6'9" and Tiago is pushing 7'0". If nothing else, Tiago's length would help change shots and make Randolph work to get his numbers.

Gasol is crafty and has improved dramatically since his time in Europe. He's also shown he has no problem shooting over 7-footers. He's had time to get used to the speed, size and strength of NBA players. Putting Splitter on Gasol doesn't make much sense because there's not really anything in that matchup where Splitter has the advantage. If Randolph beats him with some nice moves down-low, Splitter still has the size advantage to make up for it. With Marc, there really isn't anything to fall back on.

If Splitter had seen more time during the season he'd be more prepared to guard either. But for right now, I think his size and quickness is something he can use to contribute immediately.

[mingus]

If Splitter is playing yesterday their frontline doesn't go 19/25. Hell they could have gone 17/25, still really good, and Spurs still would've won. Pop is as much to blame for the loss, if not more, than anyone for not trying to lessen their impact in the least.

[z0sa]

Splitter should get PT; none is questionable, but Pop is the man in command.

[TD 21]

I'd like to see Splitter have some minutes but lets not forget that he can get pushed around relatively easily by bigger and stronger players which the Grizzlies have in their frontcourt. Gasol would just play bully ball against Splitter (Marc's strength/weight overpowers even Duncan/Dice) but maybe that'd open up opportunities for the Spurs guards to strip the ball.

Another huge exploitable disadvantage against Splitter in this match-up is that he seems like he's below-average when it comes to basic NBA rebounding and boxing out. Thats just asking for trouble with Randolph on the court but at least Splitter is one hell of a mobile big body on the floor which the Spurs haven't had in a while.

Fine. But would you rather they be (severely) out lengthened and out strengthened in the post, or at least minimize the former and take their chances with the latter? Also, playing Splitter some on Gasol would free up Duncan to play some on Randolph.

To sum up what I was saying last night, basically I mean Duncan is neither a PF nor a C defensively at this point. So what he needs next to him is someone who can adequately defend both, so that they can match him up with opposing PF's or C's based on the match-up. Everyone is so focused on the Spurs lack of a second big, but when they face the big front lines, their issues are at both big positions, because Duncan is forced to defend players not only bigger, but stronger. They need to have a big, wide body to defend power fives, even if it's someone limited/minimal, who's only used against those teams. Look at the job Collins has done at times, or the job Gray did yesterday.

[Obstructed_View]

It's pretty stupid to worry that Splitter is going to get pushed around if there's nobody else on the roster that could do a remotely better job. In other words, if the Spurs are playing someone that can push Splitter around, they're going to destroy Blair, Bonner and Dice.

[HarlemHeat37]

Exactly..

Splitter has plenty of weaknesses, but it's meaningless..his weaknesses should be compared to the weaknesses of Bonner, Blair and McDyess, 3 players that also have glaring weaknesses..

Using Splitter's weaknesses, in this case, doesn't make much sense, when being compared to other players with similar, probably worse, weaknesses, especially defensively..

Splitter's weaknesses: Can't create his own offense(Bonner, Blair and McDyess are all below average at creating for themselves, too, so not a serious weakness), he doesn't have range on his shot(Blair has the same weakness), he occasionally gets pushed around in the post(Bonner, Blair and McDyess all have the same weaknesses), weak FT shooter(the other 3 are better, but Splitter draws them at a much higher rate, which negates it, at least)..

Splitter's strengths: Great p&r defender(Bonner and Blair are horrible here, McDyess is average, at best), takes charges at a very high rate(The other 3 can't, especially Bonner), solid passer(Bonner and McDyess are terrible passers, Blair is average), good face-up defender(Blair and Bonner are poor at it, McDyess is occasionally good), great at making rotations(Bonner and McDyess are OK, Blair is terrible)..

If Splitter was competing against strong competition, emphasizing his weaknesses as an argument point would be valid..however, he's going up against weak competition here, he should be playing ahead of all of them..

Realistically, none of the Spurs secondary bigs would be #2 bigs on any other team, not even #3 bigs on some teams..it's the lesser of evils here, in this regard, and Splitter should be the #2..

[Isitjustme?]

Exactly..

Splitter has plenty of weaknesses, but it's meaningless..his weaknesses should be compared to the weaknesses of Bonner, Blair and McDyess, 3 players that also have glaring weaknesses..

Using Splitter's weaknesses, in this case, doesn't make much sense, when being compared to other players with similar, probably worse, weaknesses, especially defensively..

Splitter's weaknesses: Can't create his own offense(Bonner, Blair and McDyess are all below average at creating for themselves, too, so not a serious weakness), he doesn't have range on his shot(Blair has the same weakness), he occasionally gets pushed around in the post(Bonner, Blair and McDyess all have the same weaknesses), weak FT shooter(the other 3 are better, but Splitter draws them at a much higher rate, which negates it, at least)..

Splitter's strengths: Great p&r defender(Bonner and Blair are horrible here, McDyess is average, at best), takes charges at a very high rate(The other 3 can't, especially Bonner), solid passer(Bonner and McDyess are terrible passers, Blair is average), good face-up defender(Blair and Bonner are poor at it, McDyess is occasionally good), great at making rotations(Bonner and McDyess are OK, Blair is terrible)..

If Splitter was competing against strong competition, emphasizing his weaknesses as an argument point would be valid..however, he's going up against weak competition here, he should be playing ahead of all of them..

Realistically, none of the Spurs secondary bigs would be #2 bigs on any other team, not even #3 bigs on some teams..it's the lesser of evils here, in this regard, and Splitter should be the #2..

Great post.

[peacemaker885]

It's just all total bull shit written by some fakers that live in the US and have never even seen a European game. Why the hell do Americans keep believing it?

Because there's nothing more to believe in. A lot of people here have lost faith in the team. They need somebody to hang on to. Even Dice has fallen in the eyes of most because of one game. Splitter is the least known, so he's the one with the least faults.

[Cane]

It's pretty stupid to worry that Splitter is going to get pushed around if there's nobody else on the roster that could do a remotely better job. In other words, if the Spurs are playing someone that can push Splitter around, they're going to destroy Blair, Bonner and Dice.

I'm just tempering the expectations. I want Splitter to play because he does match up better with more traditional bigs, he's one of the most mobile bigs the Spurs have had in the past few years. However while he played well against LMA and Cousins, he's also been pushed around like a rag doll and his weak boxingout/rebounding is a concern against Randolph and Gasol who give even Duncan and Dice problems. Hopefully he'll get the opportunity to prove otherwise. Whoever plays, the Spurs can't afford to have Marc Gasol look like a HOfer out there.

[galvatron3000]

Spurs dom't play anyone over 6'9 other than Duncan unless they think the second coming of Horry is there, i.e Bonner

[Cane]

Fine. But would you rather they be (severely) out lengthened and out strengthened in the post, or at least minimize the former and take their chances with the latter? Also, playing Splitter some on Gasol would free up Duncan to play some on Randolph.

To sum up what I was saying last night, basically I mean Duncan is neither a PF nor a C defensively at this point. So what he needs next to him is someone who can adequately defend both, so that they can match him up with opposing PF's or C's based on the match-up. Everyone is so focused on the Spurs lack of a second big, but when they face the big front lines, their issues are at both big positions, because Duncan is forced to defend players not only bigger, but stronger. They need to have a big, wide body to defend power fives, even if it's someone limited/minimal, who's only used against those teams. Look at the job Collins has done at times, or the job Gray did yesterday.

Collins outweighs Splitter by nearly 20 pounds, Gray by about 30 pounds, Gasol's about 20-30 pounds, all of them are taller too IIRC. At the end of the day the Spurs don't have a young big traditional center that matches up well with those kind of giants but hopefully Splitter can be that guy.

Imo I think Duncan and Dice will improve their defensive game. Marc made some crazy shots as well which hopefully was more of a fluke than not. With Splitter on the court, Duncan should defend Randolph for the reasons you listed and since Splitter constantly has his hands down on the perimeter. However I wonder if Randolph has enough quickness to make things difficult for Duncan.

[TD 21]

Collins outweighs Splitter by nearly 20 pounds, Gray by about 30 pounds, Gasol's about 20-30 pounds, all of them are taller too IIRC. At the end of the day the Spurs don't have a young big traditional center that matches up well with those kind of giants but hopefully Splitter can be that guy.

Imo I think Duncan and Dice will improve their defensive game. Marc made some crazy shots as well which hopefully was more of a fluke than not. With Splitter on the court, Duncan should defend Randolph for the reasons you listed and since Splitter constantly has his hands down on the perimeter. However I wonder if Randolph has enough quickness to make things difficult for Duncan.

I'm aware of the weight disparity between Collins/Gray/Gasol and Splitter. Even though he's listed as 7-0, Collins isn't even a full 6-11. Duncan is taller than him. Gray is legitimately 7-0, though and Gasol is legitimately 7-1. After Duncan, Splitter's their best chance at adequately defending these types. But they need to properly address this gaping hole in the off season.

Duncan will improve defensively, but he's going to continue to have trouble with Gasol, because of Gasol's combination of length and strength and pretty good skill/touch. It's the same thing with Bynum, Bogut, Milicic, etc. Randolph might beat Duncan off the dribble a time or two, but it's not something he can repeatedly exploit (he's not Stoudemire or Bosh) and in the unlikely event he did, the Spurs could make a change. I'm not suggesting to go with this for 30 mpg. Theoretically, Duncan's length should give him problems, though.

[MaNu4Tres]

Exactly..

Splitter has plenty of weaknesses, but it's meaningless..his weaknesses should be compared to the weaknesses of Bonner, Blair and McDyess, 3 players that also have glaring weaknesses..

Using Splitter's weaknesses, in this case, doesn't make much sense, when being compared to other players with similar, probably worse, weaknesses, especially defensively..

Splitter's weaknesses: Can't create his own offense(Bonner, Blair and McDyess are all below average at creating for themselves, too, so not a serious weakness), he doesn't have range on his shot(Blair has the same weakness), he occasionally gets pushed around in the post(Bonner, Blair and McDyess all have the same weaknesses), weak FT shooter(the other 3 are better, but Splitter draws them at a much higher rate, which negates it, at least)..

Splitter's strengths: Great p&r defender(Bonner and Blair are horrible here, McDyess is average, at best), takes charges at a very high rate(The other 3 can't, especially Bonner), solid passer(Bonner and McDyess are terrible passers, Blair is average), good face-up defender(Blair and Bonner are poor at it, McDyess is occasionally good), great at making rotations(Bonner and McDyess are OK, Blair is terrible)..

If Splitter was competing against strong competition, emphasizing his weaknesses as an argument point would be valid..however, he's going up against weak competition here, he should be playing ahead of all of them..

Realistically, none of the Spurs secondary bigs would be #2 bigs on any other team, not even #3 bigs on some teams..it's the lesser of evils here, in this regard, and Splitter should be the #2..

/thread

Harlem FTW

[xellos88330]

Exactly..

Splitter has plenty of weaknesses, but it's meaningless..his weaknesses should be compared to the weaknesses of Bonner, Blair and McDyess, 3 players that also have glaring weaknesses..

Using Splitter's weaknesses, in this case, doesn't make much sense, when being compared to other players with similar, probably worse, weaknesses, especially defensively..

Splitter's weaknesses: Can't create his own offense(Bonner, Blair and McDyess are all below average at creating for themselves, too, so not a serious weakness), he doesn't have range on his shot(Blair has the same weakness), he occasionally gets pushed around in the post(Bonner, Blair and McDyess all have the same weaknesses), weak FT shooter(the other 3 are better, but Splitter draws them at a much higher rate, which negates it, at least)..

Splitter's strengths: Great p&r defender(Bonner and Blair are horrible here, McDyess is average, at best), takes charges at a very high rate(The other 3 can't, especially Bonner), solid passer(Bonner and McDyess are terrible passers, Blair is average), good face-up defender(Blair and Bonner are poor at it, McDyess is occasionally good), great at making rotations(Bonner and McDyess are OK, Blair is terrible)..

If Splitter was competing against strong competition, emphasizing his weaknesses as an argument point would be valid..however, he's going up against weak competition here, he should be playing ahead of all of them..

Realistically, none of the Spurs secondary bigs would be #2 bigs on any other team, not even #3 bigs on some teams..it's the lesser of evils here, in this regard, and Splitter should be the #2..

This is a great answer. It convinced me. Well done HH.
:toast

[rascal]

Exactly..

Splitter has plenty of weaknesses, but it's meaningless..his weaknesses should be compared to the weaknesses of Bonner, Blair and McDyess, 3 players that also have glaring weaknesses..

Using Splitter's weaknesses, in this case, doesn't make much sense, when being compared to other players with similar, probably worse, weaknesses, especially defensively..

Splitter's weaknesses: Can't create his own offense(Bonner, Blair and McDyess are all below average at creating for themselves, too, so not a serious weakness), he doesn't have range on his shot(Blair has the same weakness), he occasionally gets pushed around in the post(Bonner, Blair and McDyess all have the same weaknesses), weak FT shooter(the other 3 are better, but Splitter draws them at a much higher rate, which negates it, at least)..

Splitter's strengths: Great p&r defender(Bonner and Blair are horrible here, McDyess is average, at best), takes charges at a very high rate(The other 3 can't, especially Bonner), solid passer(Bonner and McDyess are terrible passers, Blair is average), good face-up defender(Blair and Bonner are poor at it, McDyess is occasionally good), great at making rotations(Bonner and McDyess are OK, Blair is terrible)..

If Splitter was competing against strong competition, emphasizing his weaknesses as an argument point would be valid..however, he's going up against weak competition here, he should be playing ahead of all of them..

Realistically, none of the Spurs secondary bigs would be #2 bigs on any other team, not even #3 bigs on some teams..it's the lesser of evils here, in this regard, and Splitter should be the #2..

The bottomline is the Spurs front office did not address the weak front line. Now all hope rests on Splitter to come in after not playing much all year and make some type of impact.

[HarlemHeat37]

No disagreements there..what's even worse is that the 1 big that they actually did acquire in the off-season, Splitter, didn't even get integrated until Duncan got injured in February:lol(and then he was back at the end of the bench when Duncan returned, naturally)..

[Obstructed_View]

The bottomline is the Spurs front office did not address the weak front line. Now all hope rests on Splitter to come in after not playing much all year and make some type of impact.

The front office has always gotten centers, but it's up to the coach to play them. What makes it such a fucking puzzlement is that it's the same guy making both decisions.

[Janko]

hack a thiago

[Johnny RIngo]

Spurs badly need Splitter for this series(and beyond - assuming we make it to the next round) seeing as Manu probably won't be 100% for next few games. Only way this team has a hope of winning a championship is if we play our best players but Pop seems to have made up his mind in regards to playing Bonner(probably to justify the contract they gave him last summer). Dice has vet seniority and it could be his last season in the NBA so there's no way Splitter takes away any of his minutes. That leaves Blair who started for the team most of the season and has become a favorite of Pop's. More than likely Splitter will get his minutes when the Spurs are losing badly in an elimination game before bowing out of the playoffs.

[Splits]

Exactly..

Splitter has plenty of weaknesses, but it's meaningless..his weaknesses should be compared to the weaknesses of Bonner, Blair and McDyess, 3 players that also have glaring weaknesses..

Using Splitter's weaknesses, in this case, doesn't make much sense, when being compared to other players with similar, probably worse, weaknesses, especially defensively..

Splitter's weaknesses: Can't create his own offense(Bonner, Blair and McDyess are all below average at creating for themselves, too, so not a serious weakness), he doesn't have range on his shot(Blair has the same weakness), he occasionally gets pushed around in the post(Bonner, Blair and McDyess all have the same weaknesses), weak FT shooter(the other 3 are better, but Splitter draws them at a much higher rate, which negates it, at least)..

Splitter's strengths: Great p&r defender(Bonner and Blair are horrible here, McDyess is average, at best), takes charges at a very high rate(The other 3 can't, especially Bonner), solid passer(Bonner and McDyess are terrible passers, Blair is average), good face-up defender(Blair and Bonner are poor at it, McDyess is occasionally good), great at making rotations(Bonner and McDyess are OK, Blair is terrible)..

If Splitter was competing against strong competition, emphasizing his weaknesses as an argument point would be valid..however, he's going up against weak competition here, he should be playing ahead of all of them..

Realistically, none of the Spurs secondary bigs would be #2 bigs on any other team, not even #3 bigs on some teams..it's the lesser of evils here, in this regard, and Splitter should be the #2..



Argument from ignorance (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance), also known as argumentum ad ignorantiam or appeal to ignorance, is an informal logical fallacy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Informal_fallacy). It asserts that a proposition is necessarily true because it has not been proven false (or vice versa). This represents a type of false dichotomy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dichotomy) in that it excludes a third option, which is: there is insufficient investigation and therefore insufficient information to "prove" the proposition to be either true or false. Nor does it allow the admission that the choices may in fact not be two (true or false), but may be as many as four; with (3) being unknown between true or false; and (4) being unknowable (among the first three). And finally, any action taken, based upon such a pseudo "proof" is fallaciously valid, that is, it is being asserted to be valid based upon a fallacy.[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance#cite_note-0) In debates, appeals to ignorance are sometimes used to shift the burden of proof (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burden_of_proof).

[TD 21]

No disagreements there..what's even worse is that the 1 big that they actually did acquire in the off-season, Splitter, didn't even get integrated until Duncan got injured in February:lol(and then he was back at the end of the bench when Duncan returned, naturally)..

And the worst part of that is the fact that he performed very well while Duncan was out. He proved that he's the second best big on the team. Yet he's fifth on the depth chart. If any other coach was coaching this team, Splitter would probably be starting and if he weren't, he'd be the first big off the bench.

They're the only team in the league that I can think of that's not playing their best talent. It would be like the Lakers benching Bynum in favor of a decent backup big. If they did that, they wouldn't be contenders. For those of you that are slow, I'm not suggesting Splitter is Bynum's equal. What I'm saying is, they're the second best big on their respective teams. Only, one is making a big impact for his team, while the other is rotting on the bench for his.

[Splits]

And the worst part of that is the fact that he performed very well while Duncan was out. He proved that he's the second best big on the team.

Why did we lose all 4 games he started during that stretch? Oh, I forgot, Bonner.

[TD 21]

Why did we lose all 4 games he started during that stretch? Oh, I forgot, Bonner.

Because "we" executed like a high school team coming down the stretch. Splitter didn't even play much in those fourth quarters. But let me guess, it was his fault.

[Splits]

Because "we" executed like a high school team coming down the stretch. Splitter didn't even play much in those fourth quarters. But let me guess, it was his fault.

Definitely not his fault. But to you and the thousand bots like you, you act like playing Splitter will generate rainbows out of a unicorn's ass. Why did we lose every game he started if Splitter is our savior? Nobody runs a 5-big rotation, so who sits instead of Splitter? The 5th big doesn't play except in emergency situations, so who is it that is nailed to the end of the bench instead? Blair? Bonner? Dice?

[TD 21]

Definitely not his fault. But to you and the thousand bots like you, you act like playing Splitter will generate rainbows out of a unicorn's ass. Why did we lose every game he started if Splitter is our savior? Nobody runs a 5-big rotation, so who sits instead of Splitter? The 5th big doesn't play except in emergency situations, so who is it that is nailed to the end of the bench instead? Blair? Bonner? Dice?

No, I've never once done that and I don't recall seeing anyone else do that, either. That's what clowns like you don't understand. All I'm saying (and I think I can speak for the vast majority when I say this) is he's the second best big on the team and would give them their best possible chance to win a championship if he were utilized as such. Or even in the rotation period. That's it. I'm not saying he's a perennial All-Star or Hall-of-Famer in the making.

I've said all along that it should be Blair. But Bonner should be on a short leash. Ideally, Splitter should have been groomed to start, McDyess should have been the first big off the bench and Bonner/Blair should have been utilized depending on match-up/who's playing well. But that made too much sense.

[Josepatches_]

lol

Some comments are really funny.They saw him 10 games playing 5 minutes and they know him better than his own mother.


Splitter was at least as good as Marc Gasol in the both sides of the court in my country where they played a lot of years.He could average 10/10 easily in the NBA.

[spurs50_]

Splitters weakness is having a coach that doesn't play young bigs.

[Josepatches_]

IGasol would just play bully ball against Splitter (Marc's strength/weight overpowers even Duncan/Dice) but maybe that'd open up opportunities for the Spurs guards to strip the ball.



That's a good example of to watch only a few games from Tiago.

The duel Splitter/Gasol was always tied .They played one against the other one a lot of games.

In spanish you can find a lot of articles about them.It was a debate here in Spain.

In english i only find this article but both them were young.Splitter was nearly a rookie and Scola was the leader of his team.

http://www.draftexpress.com/article/Marquee-Matchup-Marc-Gasol-vs.-Tiago-Splitter-1951/

[TDMVPDPOY]

splitters strengths makes up for his weaknesses

we are use to playing 4 on 5 offense anyway

as long he doesnt throw up weak pathetic shots or chuckin up shots disrupting the flow of the offense, then theres no problems, just need better ball movement...since most of his points come from 2nd opportunities anyway

are we concern about him? no his 6 fouls and big body down low will come handy and he will make them work for their points compared to playin undersized bigs who got abused in game 1

[biskvito]

http://www.draftexpress.com/article/Marquee-Matchup-Marc-Gasol-vs.-Tiago-Splitter-1951/

"veteran Euro star Gregor Fucka, a very skilled and versatile 7-1 big" :wakeup

[Spursmania]

Splitters weakness is having a coach that doesn't play young bigs.

[BRs.Ganso]

EVERY PLAYER improve his game in NBA

with Splitter won't be different, but he need plays... and playoffs is not the time for test!

Cograts Pop!

[DBMethos]

Splitter's weakness: Hasn't gotten over himself [/Pop]