In the long run, was Bonner hitting those two 3's good for the Spurs?

[DeadlyDynasty]

Sure, it may have given him some confidence, but that just's another reason to give Splitter a DNP-CD again.

Discuss.

[Bill_Brasky]

I felt bad for Matty, having his first clutch playoff moment ruined by Parker of all people.

[tp2021]

Bonner DIDN'T choke. That's all that matters when it comes to Bonner in the playoffs, IMO

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

I felt bad for Matty, having his first clutch playoff moment ruined by his play the other 23 minutes he was on the court.

fify

[TimDunkem]

No, it's not good for the Spurs, but that's a good movie in your signature. :toast

[DeadlyDynasty]

fify

:lol



No, it's not good for the Spurs, but that's a good movie in your signature. :toast

God bless :toast

[Mugen]

Sure, it may have given him some confidence, but that just's another reason to give Splitter a DNP-CD again.

Discuss.

Bonner isn't the reason Splitter is getting DNPs. Blair is.

Bonner brings something different than all the other bigs (3pt shooting) even though yesterday was probably the only time you'll ever see it again in the playoffs.

Normally, I'd say no it wasn't a good thing in the long run for the Spurs because Pop would just overplay him some more. But truth is Pop is going to overplay him even if he went 0-10 from the field.

It seems that Bonner's minutes are even more guaranteed than Dice's. You might as well hope for the Ginger to make his shots because he's going to be out there regardless.

[boutons_deux]

Huge + for Matty.

It's bad for the Spurs if he doesn't hit 40%+ in the playoffs, stepping up his season avg.

[Bill_Brasky]

fify

This ones not on Matt. We played a sloppy game and still had a chance to win, and he was where he needed to be and hit the shots we needed him to hit. Just couldn't close the fuckers out.

[Obstructed_View]

Dont see how it matters. Neither Bonner's poor play nor Splitter's great defense and ability to draw fouls has made much of a difference in Pop's lineup decisions.

[Cane]

Speaking of good 3's, why the hell is Pau Gasol taking that shot in the playoffs? It did go down against the epic beatdown versus the Spurs earlier in the season but...wtf?

[Obstructed_View]

Gasol was so excited to be touching the ball he didn't dare pass it back to Kobe.

[DeadlyDynasty]

Speaking of good 3's, why the hell is Pau Gasol taking that shot in the playoffs? It did go down against the epic beatdown versus the Spurs earlier in the season but...wtf?

tbh it was the best shot he took all game. Very vaginal game from Pau, tbh. I expect him and Odom to wake up for Game 2, but we'll see.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Dont see how it matters. Neither Bonner's poor play nor Splitter's great defense and ability to draw fouls has made much of a difference in Pop's lineup decisions.

This. It's all about "corporate knowledge". Even if the knowledge puts you two steps out of place because you're too fucking slow and let's your man get easy offensive rebounds or baskets (like Bonner).

[DeadlyDynasty]

Where did the "corporate knowledge" bit come from? Did Pop actually use that in a sentence before?

[Death In June]

With Bonner, you have to hope for one of two outcomes. One is that he makes his open threes and proves himself a capable fourth big. The other is that his game is such a travesty that it warrants a permanent spot on the bench. Sadly, most days are somewhere in the middle. He finds ways to hurt the team but he does so without being conspicuously awful.

[DJ Mbenga]

why not play splitter at pf and bonner at sf. since rj is such trash you dont have to worry about his crap. there is also a part of me that wants to see this. woudl be hilarious lineup.

[Jimcs50]

This helps the team. Memphis will have to respect his shooting. Up til then, they could pack it in the middle because no Spur was hitting anything at all from outside. What I've see this year is that outside shooting success is contageous on this team, if a player knocks down some 3s, the other players seem to get confidence as well.

If TP, Bonner, Neal, RJ, and Hill start hitting outside shots, the Manu, TP, Hill and TD get a lot more opportunities to make layups.

I hope Spurs can get their shooting touch back

[ElNono]

why not play splitter at pf and bonner at sf. since rj is such trash you dont have to worry about his crap. there is also a part of me that wants to see this. woudl be hilarious lineup.

The point of playing Bonner in place of a big is to 'stretch the floor', that is move him to the perimeter, and his 'big' defender on the other team moves to the perimeter to guard him, making room inside the paint for Tim/Manu/Tony to operate. If his defender sags on him to cover the paint, then Matt would make them pay by taking and hitting an extraordinary amount of 3 pointers until the other team concedes that the Red Rocket needs to be guarded.

That's the theory anyways. Works well against teams like the Timberwolves, or when we're up 20 and Tony/Manu are ripping the other team a new asshole and the other team needs to start gambling, plus Matty has no pressure wether he makes or misses.

Good teams actually keep his defender next to paint at the start of the possession, and when penetration starts with the screen, whoever is guarding the SF rotates to Bonner, and whoever was guarding Tony/Manu and was screened heads over to cover the SF. Matty won't shoot if he's not wide open, even if the guy running at him is Muggsy Bogues. If he puts the ball on the floor, you pressure the dribble. He's a low turnover guy, but it's almost assured that you broke up the offensive play and the Spurs need to restart.

The benefits for the opposing team on the other end are obvious and well documented.

[Agloco]

Sure, it may have given him some confidence, but that just's another reason to give Splitter a DNP-CD again.

Discuss.

Pop didn't need another reason tbh.

Splitter will play in the last game as we're being eliminated (hopefully not in the first round).



Where did the "corporate knowledge" bit come from? Did Pop actually use that in a sentence before?

I know it's odd quoting a Lakers forum, but the actual article isn't up anymore.

http://forums.lakersground.net/viewtopic.php?p=2794366

Another site with the quote:

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/200831/Popovich_Preaches_Patience_With_Spurs

And another.....

http://www.48minutesofhell.com/gladwell-spurs-capitalization-rate

[z0sa]

The benefits for the opposing team on the other end are obvious and well documented.

Link? I don't find Bonner to be a great defender or anything, but you make him out to be a turnstile and AFAIK (based on advanced stats), that's not the case.

Does he get overwhelmed by Randolph in the paint? Yes. So does Blair and even McDyess; so would Splitter, and essentially every other big man in the L besides a select few. Where's your "Obvious" comments for them?

[cheguevara]

anybody who thinks we would have won the game if Bonner's minutes would have gone to Splitter is a mentally challenged individual

now don't get me wrong. I wouldl like some if not 1/2 Bonner's minutes going to Splitter. But only the blind homers think Splitter is some kind of saviour

[Texas_Ranger]

I don't know, but when I see Matt Bonner in the game I want to kill myself and everyone around me.

[John Basedow]

Pop didn't need another reason tbh.

Splitter will play in the last game as we're being eliminated (hopefully not in the first round).




I know it's odd quoting a Lakers forum, but the actual article isn't up anymore.

http://forums.lakersground.net/viewtopic.php?p=2794366

Another site with the quote:

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/200831/Popovich_Preaches_Patience_With_Spurs

And another.....

http://www.48minutesofhell.com/gladwell-spurs-capitalization-rate

Wow:lol

[John Basedow]

I don't know, but when I see Matt Bonner in the game I want to kill myself and everyone around me.

^
One of these days Bonner is going to make somebody snap and go on a homicidal rampage. :lol

[Muser]

Splitter couldn't see any minutes when the Spurs had both Dice and Blair with 5 fouls, no fucking way he gets off the bench. Might aswell give him a cushion.

[ElNono]

Link? I don't find Bonner to be a great defender or anything, but you make him out to be a turnstile and AFAIK (based on advanced stats), that's not the case.

I already posted advanced stats for him on the chazley thread a while back that actually show he's the worst defender among him/Blair/Dice (even surprising for me since I thought Blair was worse). IOW, you can find stats for anything.

But you don't have to look further than the actual games. How many charges he takes per game (or even tries to take)? What his rebounding rate compared to any other bigs his size? How many blocks he gets?

Basketball is a fairly simple game. You attack the basket, and you can have a limited set of outcomes:
- A miss
- A made shot
- A foul
- A made shot and a foul
- An offensive foul
- Your shot blocked

Bolded are the positive outcomes. With Matt, you can remove the last two items. On top of that, the sole negative outcome can be turned into a positive given his atrocious rebounding (amongst the worst in the league, also linked in that thread).

Is Blair better? It's a wash. Blair boards much better, but by sheer hustle, not by boxing out better. DeJuan also is much better at picking entry passes, but if the pass is good, then that advantage is gone. Blair however, cannot contest shots as well, because of his (lack of) size.

As a team defender, Matty is probably better than Blair, but by just a hair. That's to be expected though, since Matt has been around the team much longer. That's why it's hard to believe how many rotations he actually misses (most of them when he's drawn to the perimeter on a switch).


Does he get overwhelmed by Randolph in the paint? Yes. So does Blair and even McDyess; so would Splitter, and essentially every other big man in the L besides a select few. Where's your "Obvious" comments for them?

I wasn't talking specifically about ZBo, this last game, or this matchup in particular. Teams running their offense through whoever Matty is guarding has been a fairly common topic of discussion this season on game threads.

That said, Dice had a terrible game overall. If all of them are going to play at that level defensively, might aswell throw in Splitter and Novak and see if you get something at all. We at least know Dice can play much better.

[Obstructed_View]

anybody who thinks we would have won the game if Bonner's minutes would have gone to Splitter is a mentally challenged individual

now don't get me wrong. I wouldl like some if not 1/2 Bonner's minutes going to Splitter. But only the blind homers think Splitter is some kind of saviour

Splitter is by far the best defensive center the Spurs have had since David Robinson retired. Not only would the Spurs have won that game with Splitter in the rotation, but they'd have likely won it by 20.

[ShoogarBear]

Splitter is by far the best defensive center the Spurs have had since David Robinson retired. Not only would the Spurs have won that game with Splitter in the rotation, but they'd have likely won it by 20.

Eh, I don't think he's shown yet that he's as solid defensively as Rasho was. Or even Kurt Thomas on his better days. But he's certainly shown that he can be good enough for what the Spurs need.

[CGD]

Bonner isn't the reason Splitter is getting DNPs. Blair is.

This.

[Solid D]

Bonner isn't the reason Splitter is getting DNPs. Blair is.

Bonner brings something different than all the other bigs (3pt shooting) even though yesterday was probably the only time you'll ever see it again in the playoffs.

Normally, I'd say no it wasn't a good thing in the long run for the Spurs because Pop would just overplay him some more. But truth is Pop is going to overplay him even if he went 0-10 from the field.

It seems that Bonner's minutes are even more guaranteed than Dice's. You might as well hope for the Ginger to make his shots because he's going to be out there regardless.

I believe in Pop's mind, McDyess is the reason Splitter isn't getting more PT.

[Sean Cagney]

No, in the long run they lost the game so it really doesn't even matter. He will get more PT and more ammo for his fans to point back at though, but really doesn't matter it's an L.

[SA210]

Splitter is by far the best defensive center the Spurs have had since David Robinson retired. Not only would the Spurs have won that game with Splitter in the rotation, but they'd have likely won it by 20.

[Obstructed_View]

This.

No. Pop's the reason Splitter's not getting minutes.

[Capt Bringdown]

Other players might get their minutes adjusted according to performance and matchups, but not Bonner.

Wait a minute, I know this tune:
http://i.a.cnn.net/si/multimedia/photo_gallery/2005/10/25/gallery.nbawestern/finley.jpg

[Manudona]

I don't know, but when I see Matt Bonner in the game I want to kill myself and everyone around me.

Remember to always start by you.

[GhosTown]

Hells no!

[GhosTown]

Where did the "corporate knowledge" bit come from? Did Pop actually use that in a sentence before?


Yes he did and I wished that dumb mofo would take two techs in the pre game introductions so the Spurs can get back to winning. The Spurs have to overcome so much it is unbelievable, injuries, the team they are playing and Pop dumb ass decision making.

[TE]

No. Pop's the reason Splitter's not getting minutes.

Pop and Blair. But Pop more.


Splitter would be filling the role Blair plays on the back-up frontline.

[kaji157]

I know it's not a good thing, but when i see Bonner on court i wish the NBA had more violent fans like soccer here in Argentina.
Bonner would have been forced to leave/retire by now if he had this kind of playoffs chokes in Argentina, because players use to fear the fans a lot more, and they know failure after failure in important games is condemned easily.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Dude scores 12 points on 4 shot attempts, hits clutch shots late in the 4th and plays as good a defense as any big on the team and people still bash him. He may not be great but he really can't win with most fans.

[Spurs7794]

Dude scores 12 points on 4 shot attempts, hits clutch shots late in the 4th and plays as good a defense as any big on the team and people still bash him. He may not be great but he really can't win with most fans.


This. Fact is he's undersized, not a good defender or rebounder, and plays too much. The last fact is POP's fault though. Then the guy comes through and hits two MASSIVELY clutch shots in a row in a playoff game to give us the lead. If we had defended Battier correctly on the last play, he would have been the hero of the game. Yet people are responding to his two clutch shots with the same bullshit they always say when he does any thing good: "How many points does he give up on the other end? FUCK HIM, if he had defended better, we wouldn't needed his threes"

Seriously, I feel bad for the guy. Pop deserves the hate for overplaying him.

[yavozerb]

This. Fact is he's undersized, not a good defender or rebounder, and plays too much. The last fact is POP's fault though. Then the guy comes through and hits two MASSIVELY clutch shots in a row in a playoff game to give us the lead. If we had defended Battier correctly on the last play, he would have been the hero of the game. Yet people are responding to his two clutch shots with the same bullshit they always say when he does any thing good. "How many points does he give up on the other end? FUCK HIM, if he had defended better, we wouldn't needed his threes"

Seriously, I feel bad for the guy. Pop deserves the hate for overplaying him.

So its bonner's fault that the spurs lost the game, :lol....At this point I want bonner to play 40+ minutes just so you people may switch teams to support.

[Spurs7794]

So its bonner's fault that the spurs lost the game, :lol....At this point I want bonner to play 40+ minutes just so you people may switch teams to support.

Actually, my point was that he was not the reason and that if we had won, he would have been a huge reason. The quote in my original post was confusing...

[silverblackfan]

Personally, I was off my couch when Bonner hit each of the 3s. I am hoping he is finally breaking out of the playoff slump he has been in. Lets face it, if he starts hitting clutch 3s in the playoffs, the whole team gets a lot more dangerous.
So yeah, those were good 3's. It helps our offense.
As for Tiago not getting any playing time, that is another story for me. I want to see this guy play along side Tim and shutdown the paint. I am mystified why he does not get any time at all.

[Mugen]

I believe in Pop's mind, McDyess is the reason Splitter isn't getting more PT.

I think there were 3 bigs that were guaranteed mins. this season: TD/Dice/Bonner (!). I'd like to think that the 4th spot was up for grabs between DeJuan and Tiago before training camp. Tiago missed it with injury and for whatever reason, that sealed his fate for the rest of the season.

Even though Tiago has proved to be superior to Blair defensively and about equal offensively as the season has progressed.


No. Pop's the reason Splitter's not getting minutes.

Of course. But DeJuan is the scapegoat that Pop is clinging to.

[portnoy1]

Sure, it may have given him some confidence, but that just's another reason to give Splitter a DNP-CD again.

Discuss.
Its good for Bonner but in all fairness if Dice wouldve done his job (30minutes 10pts 8rbs and DEFENSE) then Bonner would'nt have been out there in the first place.

[portnoy1]

I believe in Pop's mind, McDyess is the reason Splitter isn't getting more PT.
What did Dice do in that game? Or since he was placed in the starting lineup for that matter?

[Obstructed_View]

I know it's not a good thing, but when i see Bonner on court i wish the NBA had more violent fans like soccer here in Argentina.
Bonner would have been forced to leave/retire by now if he had this kind of playoffs chokes in Argentina, because players use to fear the fans a lot more, and they know failure after failure in important games is condemned easily.

Proof that Argentina is a third world country that should have all their sports shut down.

Bonner played as well as anyone could have expected him to and hit half his three point shots. He doesn't deserve the blame for being in the game for 25 minutes against that opposing front line.

[kaji157]

Proof that Argentina is a third world country that should have all their sports shut down.

Bonner played as well as anyone could have expected him to and hit half his three point shots. He doesn't deserve the blame for being in the game for 25 minutes against that opposing front line.

Just sayin.
Anyways i have been in third world countries and first world countries, and believe me, we are much closer to a first world than a third. Ask england how much will Bonner play in a soccer team there.

[Spurs Brazil]

2010-11 KIA NBA SIXTH MAN AWARD VOTING
Player Team 1st Place (5 pts) 2nd Place (3 Pts) 3rd Place (1 Pt) Total Points
Lamar Odom L.A. Lakers 96 10 3 513
Jason Terry Dallas 13 50 29 244
Thaddeus Young Philadelphia 2 16 18 76
Glen Davis Boston -- 19 18 75
Jamal Crawford Atlanta 5 4 14 51
Lou Williams Philadelphia 1 4 9 26
James Harden Oklahoma City -- 3 10 19
George Hill San Antonio -- 4 6 18
Marcin Gortat Phoenix -- 2 5 11
J.R. Smith Denver -- 2 1 7
Tony Allen Memphis -- 1 -- 3
Ty Lawson Denver -- 1 -- 3
O.J. Mayo Memphis -- 1 -- 3
Toney Douglas New York -- -- 2 2
Matt Bonner San Antonio -- -- 1 1
J.J. Reddick Orlando -- -- 1 1

http://www.nba.com/2011/news/04/19/kia-sixth-man-of-year/index.html?ls=iref:nbahpt2

[D-rob fan]

I say it was a good thing. If this helps give him confidence and mojo then it helps space out the floor. Looking at past games this season, the games we have blown teams out are the games where we shoot well from 3. This spurs team cannot score without this brand of basketball.

[underdawg]

So its bonner's fault that the spurs lost the game, :lol....At this point I want bonner to play 40+ minutes just so you people may switch teams to support.

that was some terrific reading comprehension - he didn't say that it was bonner's fault. He said it was Pop's fault and no matter how many people want to be upset with Bonner's vanilla play and lack of defense - it will always be Pop's fault for giving him big minutes instead of going with a better defensive player (cue the lack of respect for Pop "aka 4 rings" retort.)

I don't hate bonner - I think he plays as well as he can, but I can't help but not like him if the Spurs don't win another ring while they have Tony, Timmy and Manu.

It really shocks me how many Spurs fans don't see how important the 6th, 7th and 8th players in the rotation are now that the Big 3 have aged so much - yes, the role players have to be huge for the Spurs to win another ring. If you don't get that, you are probably surprised why the Spurs haven't won a championship since 2007.