For you Manny

[Hook Dem]

A college student challenged a senior citizen, saying it was impossible for their generation to understand his.-

"You grew up in a different world," the student said. "Today we have television, jet planes, space travel, nuclear energy, computers . . . "

Taking advantage of a pause in the student's litany, the senior said, "You're right. We didn't have those things when we were young. So we invented them!"

[SAmikeyp]

:lol

[IcemanCometh]

And then the college student shot him in the face.

[ClintSquint]

College student, "Yeah, and it's us that are inventing the drugs keeping your old ass alive".

[Tommy Duncan]

It cuts both ways. Actually what is of the most significance is that college student and the rest of Americans in their 20s and 30s are going to be basically paying out the ass in payroll taxes to give the retiring baby boomers their precious Social Security and Medicare as long as the current system is not changed. Younger workers are the ones who are going to get screwed because the natural course for politicians to take on this matter is to cater to retirees since they vote in higher proportions than the young adults of this nation.

Something to keep in mind for those of you younger individuals who are so hellbent on voting for Kerry.

[NameDropper]

The tax cuts that benefit the middle-class have been extended for one year so I give kudos to Bush and congress for getting it done.

As for the younger voters they may feel there are more important issues than taxes right now. Like keeping their young asses out of a war.

[Tommy Duncan]

There's not going to be a draft.

[Nbadan]

Or you could always go with George's "ownerhip plan" plan which would gift hundreds of millions of your retirement dollars to private investment brokages, and let them make money off the good times while you take the hit during the bad times.

My...isn't that cooonviiiennnieetttt.

[NameDropper]

But with Dubya they know the next war is just around the corner.

[Tommy Duncan]

Or you could always go with George's "ownerhip plan" plan which would gift hundreds of millions of your retirement dollars to private investment brokages, and let them make money off the good times while you take the hit during the bad times.


Or perhaps those people could put it in a savings account and beat the returns they would get in Social Security. Or perhaps they could use the money for a home, children's education, etc. And they could pass that capital they build on to their heirs.

Of course the left hates the idea of individuals becoming less dependent on government programs.

[Tommy Duncan]

And another consideration for Social Security is that there is a transfer from poor non-white workers to older, more affluent white retirees, who tend to live longer.

So basically the non-white working class gets a rawer deal from SS than the average worker. It stands in the way of them being able to build wealth and help themselves and their progeny move up the economic ladder.

I mean if you want a safety net for retirees then make it a straight up transfer program with means testing. That makes the most sense and would be much more efficient than running everyone through these mammoth one size fits all programs.

[Joe Chalupa]

I don't know how it could be done but I don't have an issue with having individuals plan their own retirement.
I could put more into my 401K instead of paying it into Social security.
But how do we phase out SS?

[Spurminator]

The left has done a good job of securing SS as a government program by crying "theft" anytime privatization is discussed.

The Right needs to come up with a nice slogan next time the issue becomes serious... Something about "Choice" or "Options."

[Tommy Duncan]

Basically it would require allowing current workers to start putting money in their private accounts and paying for the benefits of current retirees through issuance of debt.

The price tag would be rather significant, something in the vicinity of $2 trillion over the next 10 years. But that should be weighed with the realization that the current unfunded liability for the entitlement programs is $75 trillion.

There are no easy answers to this. I recall Tsongas talking a lot about this in the 1992 Democrat primaries with his "I'm not Santa Claus" campaign but of course Bill Clinton told people what they wanted to hear which is what most politicians have done for decades.

Bush deserves credit for at least raising the issue. Personally I think his plan is too modest. SS should be transformed into a welfare-type program which provides help to those elderly who need it.

But it's easy to demagouge Bush on this issue and I expect the Left to try to scare seniors about Social Security as we get closer to the election. They do it every time.

[Tommy Duncan]

The Right needs to come up with a nice slogan next time the issue becomes serious... Something about "Choice" or "Options."

I think the "Ownership Society" slogan is a good step in that direction. It highlights the fundamental problem with SS which is that you are not building any real equity with your FICA "contributions." Also it is hard to argue against. Who's going to be against people owning more?

[Joe Chalupa]

I think the fact that there ARE so many seniors who have paid into SS for years and don't want to see that reduced, nor do I for those who have paid in.
I give credit to Bush but we also need to put some time of regulations on the companies who run retirement plans so they don't screw the employees of their hard earned retirement funds.
I'm down with ownership.
Why not just say as of 1/1/2005 there will be no more security tax but every employer must offer a retirement plan for their ee's?

[Hook Dem]

" College student, "Yeah, and it's us that are inventing the drugs keeping your old ass alive". ..........Don't use 'em Clint!!!! Speak for yourself! Hope you make it to a ripe old age.:lol

[spurster]

Ha, you've been duped by Bush's "ownership society", which is really more benefits/tax cuts for the rich. Oh, I agree with Tommy on making SS needs-based, and I agree we need to get everybody increasing their equity, but Bush's program would give crumbs to the middle class, but pie and ice cream to the rich, just like his tax cuts have been so far.

And as for extending the current tax cuts, it is incredibly short-sided. The US is in a war, running a huge deficit, has huge SS and Medicare funding problems looming, so Congress (both parties) and Bush (Kerry, too) pander to the voters and make all the funding problems worse. Worst of all, the voters will cheer on all this stupidity.

[Tommy Duncan]

If individuals are able to actually gain ownership of some of their FICA taxes then dupe me all you want.

The payroll taxes are regressive, applying up to something like the first $80k of wage earnings for SS and $130k for Medicare. The "rich" generally are hit less because of that and also because a larger portion of their income is likely to come from non-wage sources.

[MannyIsGod]

Hook, your mistake is assuming I feel a lack of respect for those older than me in a general sense, and I don't.

I simply feel you're an idiot who's biggest contribution to this forum comes form his email inbox.

[exstatic]

I simply feel you're an idiot who's biggest contribution to this forum comes form his email inbox.

:lol :rollin :lol :rollin

[Hook Dem]

"I simply feel you're an idiot who's biggest contribution to this forum comes form his email inbox." .........Damn Manny.....I didn't know you had set rules for this forum such as that. What about others including you who "borrow" information from other sites for their posts? Double standard huh? I see your idiot friend Exstatic is right behind you wiping your ass as usual !

[afe7FATMAN]

I have met exstatic and I can assure you that his arms are not long enough to wipe Manny's ass. and if anyone attempted to do it it would be a all day job.:wink

P.S. Hook

I am almost your age. It's great to finally reach an age
where your experience and wisdom is respected:rollin

[Nbadan]

I simply feel you're an idiot who's biggest contribution to this forum comes form his email

Now, now, gentlemen. It's OK not to agree on things, but lets be cordial in the process.

[Samurai Jane]

Now, now, gentlemen. It's OK not to agree on things, but lets be cordial in the process.

:rollin

Sorry, but this hilarious coming from you.