Hornets at Lakers G5 Thread presented by Kobe's ankle and crutches

[Venti Quattro]

I feel Lakers win in a close one.

[ElNono]

I expect Paul to revert to gun-shy, won't shoot in the 4th quarter... Also Jarred Jack will come back down to earth...

This has Lakeshow blowout written all over it...

[Tinystarz]

hoenets got nada.

[daspurs]

If the hornets can pull of this massive upset .. i will be rollin off the blue dolphin tbh ..

[mystargtr34]

Lakers by 15. Then close it out in 6 on a Luke Walton put back off a Kobe airball for the win.

[NewJerSpur]

:corn::corn::corn::corn::corn::corn::corn::corn:

[LnGrrrR]

I fully expect Lakers to win this. That said, I'm not above some schadenfreude. (Look it up, ignoramuses!)

[Def Rowe]

At this point of the season, this should be called the Schadenfreude Forums.

[Cessation]

I fully expect Lakers to win this. That said, I'm not above some schadenfreude. (Look it up, ignoramuses!)

lol

[Darth_Pelican]

I feel Hornets win in a close one.

:hat

[Banzai]

Going to either be close or a blow out.

[mavsfan1000]

Going to either be close or a blow out.
One team will win or lose. But seriously Kobe getting injured might be the best thing possible for Pau.

[SourCandy]

Lakers by 15. Then close it out in 6 on a Luke Walton put back off a Kobe airball for the win.

http://www.gifsoup.com/view4/1571472/creepy-smile-o.gif

[Venti Quattro]

Who's going to guard CP3 now? Another CP3 crossover might split Kobe's ankles in two :lmao

[Muser]

Who's going to guard CP3 now? Another CP3 crossover might split Kobe's ankles in two :lmao

Bynum did a pretty good job.

[Pelicans78]

Very hard game for the Hornets to win. Gonna have to shoot well.

[Pelicans78]

Oh yeah ,can we end the myth that Kobe shut down Paul in the first half of the last game? Paul had 9 assists at halftime. He mauled Kobe in the 2nd quarter. Hornets had 30 pts in the paint by halftime.

[Venti Quattro]

Oh yeah ,can we end the myth that Kobe shut down Paul in the first half of the last game? Paul had 9 assists at halftime. He mauled Kobe in the 2nd quarter. Hornets had 30 pts in the paint by halftime.

lol it's been over since game 1

[Darth_Pelican]

Oh yeah ,can we end the myth that Kobe shut down Paul in the first half of the last game? Paul had 9 assists at halftime. He mauled Kobe in the 2nd quarter. Hornets had 30 pts in the paint by halftime.

And could you imagine how good his numbers would be and how much better the Hornets would be if Belinelli could hit wide open 3 pointers when CP3 draws a double team?

[Frenzy]

http://www.gifsoup.com/view4/1571472/creepy-smile-o.gif
:lol wtf


Been posting the gifs heavy there candies.

[Venti Quattro]

http://twitter.com/#!/NBA/status/62908978585288704

The @Lakers’ Luke Walton may miss his brother’s baby shower due to Playoffs, but he’s got #ciscoūmi to fill him in! http://on.nba.com/hr3u7z
:lmao

[The Gemini Method]

No Luke, go ahead and attend your baby bro's bday party. We don't need you...evar.

Fuck the Hornets...kill 'em all!

[mavsfan1000]

What'cha gonna do Hornets when Kobe and the Lakers run wild on you.

[The Gemini Method]

I cannot wait until gametime...

Exciting series and the playoffs are always so harrowing. only one team swept their 1st round series...good back n forth action going on in the L.

[baseline bum]

LA by 20 unless Kobe's ankle is 100%.

[Darth_Pelican]

Come on Hornets, pull off this miracle tonight.

[mavsfan1000]

LA will dominate if Kobe is hurt. If healthy, Kobe will make it close.

[ChrisRichards]

LA will dominate if Kobe is hurt. If healthy, Kobe will make it close.
Agree with this. If Kobe shoots 23x or above in this game, the Lakers will lose I bet.

[lefty]

Let's do this shit

http://www.peterguber.com/telltowin/ssp/magic-johnson/public/assets/62/32/62/magic_johnson_00.jpg

[Banzai]

I'll admit..I'm anxious..nervous..wish I was having an OBE but unfortunately..I'm not.

[lefty]

The Infamous Fisher "0.4" Shot


http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Y3tXElT5QqU/SjlXLM-mefI/AAAAAAAAADs/Mkp2DdM0LP8/s320/fisher-4.jpg (http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Y3tXElT5QqU/SjlXLM-mefI/AAAAAAAAADs/Mkp2DdM0LP8/s1600-h/fisher-4.jpg)Introduction

Perhaps no playoff shot has been dissected, debated, or deconstructed as much as the "0.4 Shot" made by Derek Fisher in Game 5 of the 2004 Western Conference Semifinals between the Los Angeles Lakers and the San Antonio Spurs. The Lakers did not win the title that year (they went on to be defeated by the Detroit Pistons in five games), but the closeness of the timing and the marquee nature of the two teams, who had combined to win the last five championships, conspired to focus unprecedented attention on the game-ending jumper.

Much speculation centered around whether Fisher could humanly have caught the ball, turned around, and released the ball, all in the 0.4 seconds available to him. Spurs partisans insisted that he couldn't possibly have done all of those things in so short a time; Lakers fans responded that Fisher didn't do all of those things sequentially, but combined them so that he could do them all. My own personal impression (possibly colored by my bias as a Lakers fan) was that the clock started somewhat late, but not substantially so.

Fortunately, there's no need to rely on anything so nebulous as whether Fisher's shot was plausible or not. Missing from all these speculations was an examination of the actual footage. Video from the game captures instants of the game that, for the live angle at least, are equally spaced in time. The video can therefore be used as a kind of "clock" to determine the interval of time that Fisher had possession of the ball. In assembling this particular look at the Fisher shot, I used a video file that was encoded at 25 frames per second (as I determined by stepping through frames at the end of each quarter). Unfortunately, this was not the native frame rate of the original broadcast, and this increases the random error involved in timing intervals between events. It should not, however, produce any systematic bias one way or the other.

By figuring out how many frames pass between the time that Fisher catches the ball and the time he releases it, and dividing by 25 frames per second, the elapsed time can be calculated. The bottom line, for those who are impatient or don't care about analysis: About five to six tenths of a second elapsed between the time that Fisher caught the ball and the time that he released it.

The Game

On May 13, 2004, the San Antonio Spurs played host to the Los Angeles Lakers in Game 5 of the Western Conference Semifinals. After leading most of the game by as many as 16 points, the Lakers went cold from the outside while the Spurs came steadily back, eventually going ahead 71-68 on a layup by Tony Parker with a little more than two minutes left in regulation.

After a timeout, Shaquille O'Neal responded with a turnaround eight-foot jumper in the lane to bring the Lakers to within a point. The teams traded empty possessions until Kobe Bryant sank a 19-footer from the left wing on a screen by Karl Malone, putting the Lakers ahead 72-71 with 11.5 seconds remaining.

After a non-shooting foul by Derek Fisher, the Spurs inbounded the ball in their frontcourt with 5.4 seconds left. Manu Ginobili passed the ball into Tim Duncan, and tried to cut to the basket for a return pass, but got tangled up with O'Neal and was out of the play. With no other clear options, Duncan faked one way, then dribbled the other toward the top of the key, taking a blind fadeaway jumper that touched nothing but net. The clock read just 0.4 seconds.

The Lakers called timeout. Dejected and weary players trudged slowly back to the bench, none wearier than Bryant, who was exhausted not only by the 47 minutes he had played in the game, but also by the constant jetting back and forth between the team and his legal troubles in Colorado. The Lakers' play out of the timeout called for the players to stand in a stack near the top of the key, in an attempt to break out one of their stars, O'Neal or Bryant, for a quick shot or a tip-in. But before the Lakers could inbound the ball, the Spurs called a timeout. They had seen enough, they hoped, in order to defend the play well.

After the timeout, the Lakers came out in a different set, with the players scattered across the halfcourt. Players cut, especially Bryant, but with Robert Horry doubling on Bryant rather than playing Payton inbounding the ball, Payton couldn't find an open teammate and had to call the Lakers' final timeout.

When the ball was brought into play for the final time, the Lakers returned to their original set. Bryant broke out from the stack toward halfcourt, tailed by Horry and Devin Brown. O'Neal curled toward the basket, while Malone drifted toward the top of the key. Finally, Fisher broke toward Payton.

Payton tossed the ball, leading Fisher toward a spot about 18 feet from the basket on the left wing. Fisher began angling his body for the turn before catching the ball in mid-air, then coiled on his legs and prepared to shoot over Ginobili's outstretched arms. At seemingly the same instant, Fisher released the ball, the game horn sounded, and the backboard's red light came on. Nineteen thousand people held their collective breath. The ball arced upward and came down; Fisher thought he had pushed it off too hard, but it was offset just enough by his backward motion from the basket, and the ball fell perfectly through.

A hush fell over the crowd as Fisher ran down the court in celebration, eluding his mobbing teammates and streaming down the tunnel toward the locker rooms. Rasho Nesterovic and Kevin Willis waved their hands to indicate the shot got off late. Duncan stood unmoving, hoping they were right. The referees, who had called the shot good when it happened live, convened at the scorer's table to examine the video of the play from the ABC cameras. A few tense minutes passed before the referees confirmed their initial call was correct: The shot was good. The Lakers had won Game 5, 74-73, and returned home to trounce the Spurs in Game 6 to win the series, 4-2.

The Aftermath

Writing on May 14, the day after Game 5, Dusty Garza, the editor of Spurs Report, relayed news (http://hoopshype.com/columns/shot_garza.htm) that the Spurs had filed a formal protest with the league office, claiming that the clock started too late after Fisher touched the ball, and that the shot should not have counted. The league denied the protest that same day.

Garza also offered his personal opinion that Fisher's shot did not get off in time—indeed, could not have gotten off in time—based on the notion that human reaction time is, on average, three-fourths of a second (750 milliseconds). Since the clock couldn't have started any faster than that, Garza wrote, Fisher could have had anywhere up to a bit more than a second to shoot the ball.

This seems an unreasonable conclusion. In the first place, Garza contends that the average human reaction time is three-fourths of a second, then says that unless the referees are superhuman, they couldn't possibly have pushed the button less than three-fourths of a second after Fisher touched the ball. Well, if the three-fourths of a second is an average, wouldn't half the human population be able to do it faster (assuming negligible skew in the distribution)? And presumably NBA referees are trained to be a bit faster than average.

Secondly, research indicates (Laming 1968, Welford 1980) that simple reaction time—the time required to do something simple like push a button after a visual stimulus—is more like one-fifth of a second (200 milliseconds), rather than three-fourths.

What's more, it's unclear that human reaction time is involved here at all. Bennett Salvatore once said, speaking to Henry Abbott of ESPN's TrueHoop (http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-28-295/The-Salvatore-Side-of-the-Story--A-2006-Jump-Ball-the-Suns-Hate.html) blog, that NBA referees don't anticipate calls; they only observe the game. However, that can't possibly be literally true all the time. When Payton passes the ball in-bounds, it is immediately evident that the ball will be caught (or at least touched) first by Fisher. It is human nature to anticipate this first contact, and act accordingly. But what does it mean to "act accordingly"?

For years, the clock was operated manually, by the timekeeper, based on the rules of the game and the whistles of the referees. The system worked well most of the time, but placed a lot of reliance on the alertness of the timekeeper.

In 1999, the NBA installed a new system developed by Mike Costabile, an NCAA referee who previously officiated in the NBA. Each referee carries a small transmitter attached to his or her belt, with a button. When the clock is to start, each referee pushes the button at the exact instant at which he or she believes the ball to be in play. The first button push triggers an automatic start to the clock. The system also includes a microphone that is sensitive to the particular frequency of the whistles used by NBA referees, and stops the clock when the whistle is blown.

In order to activate the clock, at least one of the referees must push a button at the instant he or she believes the ball to be first touched. Obviously, this generally doesn't happen right at the moment the clock is "supposed" to start. There are two potential delays here: reaction time, and execution time (the time it takes the finger to actually push the button).

To understand the relationship between these two, and how the actual delay is affected by context, suppose I ask you to clap your hands as soon as one of the following happens:



A basketball I drop from four feet hits the floor.
I clap my hands.
I move my hands at all.


In the first case, it takes about half a second for a basketball released from four feet up to hit the floor. That is enough time for you to react and execute the act of clapping your hands at the precise moment the ball hits the floor. In the second case, both of us need our execution times to clap our hands, but you have to react to the start of my clapping motion. In counting the delay, your execution time is cancelled out by my execution time, leaving just your reaction time. And in the last case, I can move my hands without warning, meaning that the delay is your reaction time plus your execution time.

In the case of the play in question, it took about half a second for the ball to pass from Payton's hands to Fisher's hands. For a referee who is ordinarily alert, this is plenty of time to predict the path of the ball and press the button almost immediately upon contact. Even if we accept that referees do not anticipate events, they must at least be prepared for the potential event of contact between Fisher and the ball; there is no reason, at any rate, for the delay to be anywhere near three-fourths of a second.

But let's not be too hard on Dusty Garza. He was writing in the heat of the moment, and from honest feeling. Besides, let any of us without team favoritism cast the first stone. Let's get down to brass tacks: Garza sincerely believes that the video shows that Fisher took about a second to get the shot off. Did he?

The Video

The video file I used in putting this article together is encoded at 25 frames per second. (I determined this by advancing the video frame by frame, 200 frames, at the end of each of the four quarters, when the clock is counting down at tenths of a second. Each time, 200 frames corresponded to an interval of exactly 8 seconds, so the video must be progressing at 200/8 = 25 frames per second.) Therefore, each frame represents 1/25 = 0.04 second. This is not the frame rate of the original broadcast, which would probably have been 30 frames per second. As part of the re-encoding process, frames would lose some definition, increasing the error involved in estimating precisely when events happen. Since these errors do not accumulate, however, they add a small random error, but they do not systematically bias estimates of interval lengths.

One problem in reviewing this particular game video is that only the live shot actually keeps time accurately. In all subsequent replays, the ABC crew slowed the video at a variable rate, in order to allow Al Michaels and Doc Rivers to comment on it. But the live shot has the camera in line with Fisher and Payton, making the determination of the instant Fisher first caught the ball difficult. Here, for instance, are three successive frames of the live shot, obtained using the snapshot function of the xine (http://www.xine-project.org/) video player. Which one of these frames do you think shows Fisher actually catching the ball?

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Y3tXElT5QqU/Siqmri4pbfI/AAAAAAAAAAc/PWORblOf3a0/s320/sideframe01.jpg (http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Y3tXElT5QqU/Siqmri4pbfI/AAAAAAAAAAc/PWORblOf3a0/s1600-h/sideframe01.jpg)

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Y3tXElT5QqU/Siqm3UieK7I/AAAAAAAAAAk/sMwBW0EBPmQ/s320/sideframe02.jpg (http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Y3tXElT5QqU/Siqm3UieK7I/AAAAAAAAAAk/sMwBW0EBPmQ/s1600-h/sideframe02.jpg)

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Y3tXElT5QqU/SiqoUgMmWVI/AAAAAAAAABM/JAW4WZFWA4s/s320/sideframe04.jpg (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Y3tXElT5QqU/SiqoUgMmWVI/AAAAAAAAABM/JAW4WZFWA4s/s1600-h/sideframe04.jpg)

I think it's pretty clear that this angle can't be used to reliably determine when Fisher touched the ball (which would have started the clock). Fortunately, we can still make use of other camera angles. This has precedent in the NFL, in which "composite" video reviews are conducted. This allows the referee (and video replay official) to assess multiple angles in order to come to a firm conclusion, even when no single angle provides all of the information necessary. This isn't to say that the NFL uses fancy three-dimensional visualization tools (à la The Matrix), since they can't do that in time, and neither is it necessary here. We'll just combine the angles mentally.

Here are video stills from the opposite baseline. It shows the ball and Fisher approaching one another. In this first frame, it's not very easy to see the ball, but you can see it superimposed on referee Joe Forte's right foot. At this point, the ball is still a couple of feet from Fisher's outstretched hands.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Y3tXElT5QqU/SiqnO9wiQ_I/AAAAAAAAAAs/huMGiUusbV8/s320/baseframe00.jpg (http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Y3tXElT5QqU/SiqnO9wiQ_I/AAAAAAAAAAs/huMGiUusbV8/s1600-h/baseframe00.jpg)

The frame below shows Fisher and the ball considerably closer to one another, but there still appear to be several inches in between them.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Y3tXElT5QqU/SiqnO9wiQ_I/AAAAAAAAAAs/huMGiUusbV8/s320/baseframe00.jpg (http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Y3tXElT5QqU/SiqnO9wiQ_I/AAAAAAAAAAs/huMGiUusbV8/s1600-h/baseframe00.jpg)

This third frame shows Fisher's hands possibly touching the ball for the first time. They don't clearly touch, but this is the first frame from this angle where contact is plausible.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Y3tXElT5QqU/SiqniSit30I/AAAAAAAAAA8/rfKu_JwCgjo/s320/baseframe02.jpg (http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Y3tXElT5QqU/SiqniSit30I/AAAAAAAAAA8/rfKu_JwCgjo/s1600-h/baseframe02.jpg)

Note the positions of the other players. The positioning of the left foot of Duncan (guarding Malone at the free-throw line) is especially revealing. That foot covers the free-throw line, as seen from this camera angle. Duncan's foot must therefore be in reality at least as far out as the free-throw line. It could be beyond it, if it's above the floor, but it certainly cannot be between the basket and the free-throw line. This crucial piece of video detail shows that Fisher does not touch the ball until the second of the three live video frames above. Below are successive frames from the live video, starting from the one where Fisher first touches the ball, and running until he releases it.

Frame 1:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Y3tXElT5QqU/Siqm3UieK7I/AAAAAAAAAAk/sMwBW0EBPmQ/s320/sideframe02.jpg (http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Y3tXElT5QqU/Siqm3UieK7I/AAAAAAAAAAk/sMwBW0EBPmQ/s1600-h/sideframe02.jpg)

Frame 2:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Y3tXElT5QqU/SiqoBQkeHgI/AAAAAAAAABE/TZ4s2B8zuJo/s320/sideframe03.jpg (http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Y3tXElT5QqU/SiqoBQkeHgI/AAAAAAAAABE/TZ4s2B8zuJo/s1600-h/sideframe03.jpg)

Frame 3:
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Y3tXElT5QqU/SiqoUgMmWVI/AAAAAAAAABM/JAW4WZFWA4s/s320/sideframe04.jpg (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Y3tXElT5QqU/SiqoUgMmWVI/AAAAAAAAABM/JAW4WZFWA4s/s1600-h/sideframe04.jpg)

Frame 4:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Y3tXElT5QqU/Siqobxt-j_I/AAAAAAAAABU/SMBG5ZrHFxU/s320/sideframe05.jpg (http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Y3tXElT5QqU/Siqobxt-j_I/AAAAAAAAABU/SMBG5ZrHFxU/s1600-h/sideframe05.jpg)

Frame 5:
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Y3tXElT5QqU/Siqoj9KJEAI/AAAAAAAAABc/J1KifyKQdP8/s320/sideframe06.jpg (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Y3tXElT5QqU/Siqoj9KJEAI/AAAAAAAAABc/J1KifyKQdP8/s1600-h/sideframe06.jpg)

Frame 6:
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Y3tXElT5QqU/Siqovhk42PI/AAAAAAAAABk/tyYuLObCmFQ/s320/sideframe07.jpg (http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Y3tXElT5QqU/Siqovhk42PI/AAAAAAAAABk/tyYuLObCmFQ/s1600-h/sideframe07.jpg)

Frame 7:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Y3tXElT5QqU/Siqo3gkJJ9I/AAAAAAAAABs/0bAz2hXP6bw/s320/sideframe08.jpg (http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Y3tXElT5QqU/Siqo3gkJJ9I/AAAAAAAAABs/0bAz2hXP6bw/s1600-h/sideframe08.jpg)

Frame 8:
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Y3tXElT5QqU/Siqo9-0ny3I/AAAAAAAAAB0/wgNND8VZd3g/s320/sideframe09.jpg (http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Y3tXElT5QqU/Siqo9-0ny3I/AAAAAAAAAB0/wgNND8VZd3g/s1600-h/sideframe09.jpg)

Frame 9:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Y3tXElT5QqU/SiqpErQpRgI/AAAAAAAAAB8/Z9YPvxN03Us/s320/sideframe10.jpg (http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Y3tXElT5QqU/SiqpErQpRgI/AAAAAAAAAB8/Z9YPvxN03Us/s1600-h/sideframe10.jpg)

Frame 10:
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Y3tXElT5QqU/SiqpKDBILuI/AAAAAAAAACE/ny8KbIQOcJI/s320/sideframe11.jpg (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Y3tXElT5QqU/SiqpKDBILuI/AAAAAAAAACE/ny8KbIQOcJI/s1600-h/sideframe11.jpg)

Frame 11:
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Y3tXElT5QqU/SiqpPjxIt0I/AAAAAAAAACM/qZJ-gdDVXPw/s320/sideframe12.jpg (http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Y3tXElT5QqU/SiqpPjxIt0I/AAAAAAAAACM/qZJ-gdDVXPw/s1600-h/sideframe12.jpg)

Frame 12:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Y3tXElT5QqU/SiqpUyTY4OI/AAAAAAAAACU/ZOIMpnxEE-0/s320/sideframe13.jpg (http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Y3tXElT5QqU/SiqpUyTY4OI/AAAAAAAAACU/ZOIMpnxEE-0/s1600-h/sideframe13.jpg)

Frame 13:
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Y3tXElT5QqU/SiqpazIrrrI/AAAAAAAAACc/yGD9eZIp764/s320/sideframe14.jpg (http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Y3tXElT5QqU/SiqpazIrrrI/AAAAAAAAACc/yGD9eZIp764/s1600-h/sideframe14.jpg)

Frame 14:
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Y3tXElT5QqU/SiqpgvyMOcI/AAAAAAAAACk/6fQQi39zXUc/s320/sideframe15.jpg (http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Y3tXElT5QqU/SiqpgvyMOcI/AAAAAAAAACk/6fQQi39zXUc/s1600-h/sideframe15.jpg)

Frame 15:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Y3tXElT5QqU/SiquN1-6B2I/AAAAAAAAAC0/ukB0ahq60cE/s320/sideframe16.jpg (http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Y3tXElT5QqU/SiquN1-6B2I/AAAAAAAAAC0/ukB0ahq60cE/s1600-h/sideframe16.jpg)

In my opinion, Frame 14 (which shows the clock switching from 0.1 to 0.0) shows Fisher apparently having released the ball—about as apparently as he touches it in Frame 1. If we take those two frames as the endpoints of Fisher's possession of the ball, then he has the ball for 14 minus 1, or 13 frames in all. At 25 frames per second, that works out to 13/25 = 0.52 seconds. The method I've used to produce our composite review I estimate to have an error of a frame or two in either direction, which works out to plus or minus 0.06 seconds; add another 0.02 seconds for the video re-encoding at 25 frames per second.

In addition, I should account for my status as a Lakers fan. (Who else would go through this much trouble for Fisher's shot?) I remember sitting in bed, having twisted my ankle in my own basketball game earlier that afternoon, and feeling pretty good about the Lakers until the fourth quarter, then anxious, then frustrated, then angry, and finally elated. It is sensible, to account for this possible systematic bias, to add a frame's worth of time to the figure above to yield 0.56 seconds. Note that the ball has clearly left Fisher's hands in Frame 15, which also shows the red light on the backboard going on for the first time.

To summarize, this video shows that Fisher had possession of the ball for about 0.5 to 0.6 seconds. One corollary of this finding is that the referees started the clock approximately 0.1 to 0.2 seconds after he caught the ball. This is entirely typical and in line with usual execution times; it would be unreasonable to claim the clock was started "late." It's certainly shorter than the three-quarters of a second that Garza claimed was necessarily human reaction time; after all, Fisher executed his entire possession in less time than that.

Final Thoughts

Some Lakers fans pointed out, in the aftermath of the series, that prior to Fisher's game-winner, Duncan's shot swished through the hoop with considerably more than 0.4 seconds left on the clock. See, for instance, this video frame:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Y3tXElT5QqU/SiqpmYQu3KI/AAAAAAAAACs/MY_iRknuk4M/s320/duncan.jpg (http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Y3tXElT5QqU/SiqpmYQu3KI/AAAAAAAAACs/MY_iRknuk4M/s1600-h/duncan.jpg)

If so, claimed Lakers fans, the Lakers should have had more time on the clock, possibly rendering the above dispute moot. NBA rules stipulate that the clock should be stopped at the moment the ball exits the bottom of the basket, including the nylon, not when it enters the basket. The frame above shows the ball exiting the basket with the clock switching from 0.8 to 0.7 seconds. By that token, it must have taken somewhere between 0.3 and 0.4 seconds for the referees to whistle the clock stopped after the shot swished through. Why did it take longer for the clock to stop after Duncan's shot than it did for it to start after Fisher's contact?

It's impossible to state for certain, but one possibility is that because it's less predictable that Duncan's shot will exit the bottom of the basket than it is that Fisher will touch the ball, the referees had to wait longer to be sure that the basket was made before whistling the clock stopped. Then, too, it's a whistle blow that stops the clock, as opposed to a button press that starts it again, and those two actions may well have different execution times. But it seems plausible that had perfect timekeeping prevailed in the final seconds, Fisher's shot would have been good by about 0.1 seconds.

[Ace]

Kobe's ready...
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSJ0CIFVFEPqt8LRsxlOJLMCql79U2q9 F5y0kSrV3XARhILzdws

[Nathan89]

:corn:

[NewJerSpur]

Damn lefty, you sold out big time man with the ".4" reference. :lol:depressed

[Spur-Addict]

If Marco sits, this is good for N.O.

[Spur-Addict]

Wow, he's leaking.

[Banzai]

Ron Malone

[NewJerSpur]

If Marco sits, this is good for N.O.

:tu

[LnGrrrR]

I just want a decent game tonight.

[Spur-Addict]

That may have woke up Marco

[NewJerSpur]

The elbow has activated Bellinelli.

[lefty]

Damn lefty, you sold out big time man with the ".4" reference. :lol:depressed
:lol

[Banzai]

Did Ariza play this well when he was on the Lakers?

[NewJerSpur]

Weird sequence.

[redzero]

Wow, the Hornets are going to run out of timeouts soon if Lakers players keep smacking them in the face.

[NewJerSpur]

Did Ariza play this well when he was on the Lakers?

He did against the Magic. :depressed

[sefant77]

Ariza in Uber chucker mode = fail

[Spur-Addict]

Shot to the nose, shot to the eye. No call on either.

Bynum looks good. I'll be suprised if they don't get him 15-17 shots tonight.

[Banzai]

He did against the Magic. :depressed

But that was it? Cause I can't remember any huge games but the Orlando series..and Denver.

[InRareForm]

how does landry not pay for lasik eye surgery

[Nathan89]

I haven't seen Giuseppe in awhile. Tbh, we should be concerned for his health.

[Spurtacus]

Refs already doing a great job of making sure the fakers win. Elbow to face and shot to eye.

[lurker]

how does landry not pay for lasik eye surgery
Yeah, I can't understand someone who can afford it not having it done.

[Spur-Addict]

Okafor with the butter fingers

[NewJerSpur]

But that was it? Cause I can't remember any huge games but the Orlando series..and Denver.

It was enough imo.....too much. :depressed :bang

[Spur-Addict]

He's starting to look like Bumafor this game.

[NewJerSpur]

Good call, Landry met him at the FT line.

[NewJerSpur]

Surpised Artest kicked that out, he was brutalizing Bellinelli in the post......legally.

[Spur-Addict]

Ariza is literally 2 feet from Kobe at all times.

[NewJerSpur]

Gasol needs to do that more with the smaller guys on him.

[Spur-Addict]

Flop

[Nathan89]

What do think about that call?

[NewJerSpur]

If Bynum's making that......

[NewJerSpur]

Surpised Fish didn't go down on that.

[Nathan89]

Refs doing work. Just like they did Grant Hill last year.

[NewJerSpur]

Ariza going out, who's going to kick in for NO outside of Paul and Landry?

[Spur-Addict]

Stupid foul. He's taking a fade away jumper. Prime time for a run for the Lakers

[lefty]

It has begun

[Spur-Addict]

Marco is alive

[Spur-Addict]

Wow, that's a terrible call on Green

[InRareForm]

Refs...

[NewJerSpur]

Willie Green, surprised face.

[Banzai]

Kobe looks like he has cement in his shoes.

[NewJerSpur]

Okafor altering Bynum's shot.

[Nathan89]

Lakers hit every open shot.

Refs cheating already.

[Spur-Addict]

Hornets starting to lose their cool.

[LakerHater]

WTF???

Offensive foul!?!?!?

[NewJerSpur]

Lakers had 2 players with a hand on the ball going out of bounds but they get the call.

[redzero]

Well, the Hornets aren't being blown out yet, which I didn't expect.

[lurker]

Any bets on how many Hornets players will foul out?

[usdane]

Hornets players and coach crying on every fucking play.

[Banzai]

Well, the Hornets aren't being blown out yet, which I didn't expect.

Its the Lakers.

[21_Blessings]

Any bets on how many Hornets players will foul out?

Maybe they should stop fouling so much.

[Greg Oden]

Kobe is a warrior because they tell me he is.

[NewJerSpur]

Wonder if Bellinelli keeps up the hot start.....hot for him anyway in this series.

[Isitjustme?]

Kobe is a warrior because they tell me he is.

He wants what all men want. He just wants it more.

[LakerHater]

LA gets the Ball!???

[Spur-Addict]

There's too much of a flow to this game right now. N.O needs to muck it up, slow it down, and stay focused. I'll be suprised if L.A doesn't keep going inside.

[NewJerSpur]

Gray needs to hold the ball and wait for someone to come to him.

[NewJerSpur]

Kevin Harlin is excited.

[Spur-Addict]

They're doubling CP3 off of screens now.

[LakerHater]

http://www.crossed-flag-pins.com/genimg/flaggen/Italy-240-animated-flag-gifs.gif

[NewJerSpur]

Okafor's bodying up on Odom's hook.

[Spur-Addict]

Wow, only Willie Green is playing physical? BULLSHIT

[Isitjustme?]

LA Refs stepping their game up. Clutch call.

[LakerHater]

Grey is beasting!!

[Banzai]

Looks like this game is pretty much done.

[NewJerSpur]

Gray getting the key to the city in N.O.

[NewJerSpur]

Okafor playing with attitude.

[lefty]

Lol Reggie ripping Pau

[21_Blessings]

Thanks for the play by play NewJer. What would we ever do without you.

[Spur-Addict]

Looked like an offensive foul there on CP3

[jag]

Steve Blake's headband is fucking hilarious

[NewJerSpur]

Thanks for the play by play NewJer. What would we ever do without you.

:toast

Just trying to coast to 10,000 baby.

[Isitjustme?]

Bynum looks like Tarzan, and plays like a big pussy.

[Greg Oden]

Gasol is pathetic :lol

[NewJerSpur]

Justin Smith sighting.

[IronMexican]

What a pathetic first quarter by LA. Pau's playing like a fagot.

[SpursNextRomanEmpire]

I like this

[lefty]

Kobe 1 pt

Coasting

[Tinystarz]

fouled at 0.04 :lol

[Isitjustme?]

Gasol is pathetic :lol

Bynum shrivels up too when someone big like Gray is on him.

[Banzai]

game over.

[Spur-Addict]

Shannon Brown is playing physical. It doesn't look that way for the rest of the Lakers aside from Artest.

The Lakers are going to need production from Odom.

[NewJerSpur]

Marco Bellinelli just needed the elbow to the cranium.

[BRHornet45]

sons the Gasol Killa has been huge this series. he may not score many points, but he has stepped up big time

[redzero]

lol Gasol

He went from absolutely dominating the Hornets to playing like he has 08 Garnett on him at all times.

[lefty]

Bynum looks like Tarzan, and plays like a big pussy.

He looks like Tracy Morgan, who looks like a black Jimmy Fallon

[Darth_Pelican]

Good quarter sons.

[Spur-Addict]

Steve Blake's headband is fucking hilarious

Eminem is their backup PG :lol

[Ghazi]

CP3 > Kobe

[Tinystarz]

why is kobe still resting? toughest warrior on the bench?

[NewJerSpur]

Shannon Brown is playing physical. It doesn't look that way for the rest of the Lakers aside from Artest.

The Lakers are going to need production from Odom.

Surprised they aren't calling Artests' number more in the post with Marco on him, he's been getting to the rim pretty consitently....also surprised to him him kicking it out the last 2 games when he gets there.

[jag]

Does Steve Blake not have any friends or family who care about his wellbeing? Which one of his friends is telling him that headband looks ok?He looks like a Make-a-Wish kid. He looks like he should be in hospital receiving treatment right now.

[Spur-Addict]

Surprised they aren't calling Artests' number more in the post with Marco on him, he's been getting to the rim pretty consitently....also surprised to him him kicking it out the last 2 games when he gets there.

Definetly. That's a bucket 60% of the time, or a good look for a spot up shooter.

[NewJerSpur]

Does Steve Blake not have any friends or family who care about his wellbeing? Which one of his friends is telling him that headband looks ok?He looks like a Make-a-Wish kid. He looks like he should be in hospital receiving treatment right now.

He's going on the And-1 Revival Tour after this.

[Greg Oden]

headbands are unacceptable on whites unless it's solely to hold hair back.

[Spur-Addict]

Odom on cue.

[NewJerSpur]

Hornets letting it slip.

[jag]

He's going on the And-1 Revival Tour after this.

I bet he freestyles before games to get his teammates pumped up.

[Axe Murderer]

crofl that should've been a 3 shot foul

[Tinystarz]

lol chris in the act!

[Spur-Addict]

Lakers second unit bringing energy and effort.

[NewJerSpur]

I bet he freestyles before games to get his teammates pumped up.

:lol

[redzero]

Paul was definitely shooting a 3, but the refs tend to never call it.

[Nathan89]

Laker second unit>Kobe

[usdane]

Some life from Brown.

[LkrFan]

Laker 2nd unit bringing the champs back into it. TO for Nawlins

[Isitjustme?]

Does Steve Blake not have any friends or family who care about his wellbeing? Which one of his friends is telling him that headband looks ok?He looks like a Make-a-Wish kid. He looks like he should be in hospital receiving treatment right now.

:lmao :lmao :lmao

[Banzai]

Ok so the other day..guy comes in to work and says "I heard FedEx and UPS" are merging together and tells me their new name is going to be FEDUP.

[BRHornet45]

sons this is how the NBA works ... back and forth, back and forth. the second half is all that matters. you can be down 30 in the first half and still win the game by 30. funny how that works.

[NewJerSpur]

Can Chris Paul go for another 40+ minute game.....and if he can't, do the Hornets have the floor generals to step up in his absence?

[usdane]

Paul was definitely shooting a 3, but the refs tend to never call it.

Right

[NewJerSpur]

Ok so the other day..guy comes in to work and says "I heard FedEx and UPS" are merging together and tells me their new name is going to be FEDUP.

:toast

[Tinystarz]

Ok so the other day..guy comes in to work and says "I heard FedEx and UPS" are merging together and tells me their new name is going to be FEDUP.

did he also tell you about the new thing coming out called "the internet" ?

[InRareForm]

great defense bellienelli

[NewJerSpur]

Can't believe Gray won that tip.

[Isitjustme?]

1fw1CcxCUgg

[Spur-Addict]

They need to post up Landry.

[LakerHater]

Paul cant sit for too long!!

[NewJerSpur]

Pau is sagging pretty far off of Gray.

[Isitjustme?]

http://s3.amazonaws.com/twitpic/photos/full/91609353.gif?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAJF3XCCKACR3QDMOA&Expires=1303875896&Signature=vcxOzs5D01hK1VE971Xdm38aigk%3D

[Capt Bringdown]

10 unanswered points, way to let LA back in the game

[Spur-Addict]

I'd sit Ariza.

[NewJerSpur]

Jack travelled before the violation from the looks. NO can't just give up 10-point leads like that.

[redzero]

They are completely clueless offensively right now. Can't get shots off and can't hold on to the ball. Pathetic.

[LakerHater]

Jack is strong, he almost pushed Blaed into the 3rd row!!

[LnGrrrR]

:lol Way to give up on that play Lakers.

[NewJerSpur]

Looked like Pau pushed off on Landry.

[Spur-Addict]

Wow, Odom pushed Landry in the back and there was no call. Gasol got the rebound because of it.

[jag]

1fw1CcxCUgg

Damn, someone's gotta get a hand in his face.

[Spur-Addict]

Stop crying and play ball

[Spur-Addict]

Good job of Fisher picking up Ariza

[NewJerSpur]

Surprised Paul didn't go to work on Pau with the mismatch.

[LakerHater]

C'mon, Artest is pullin Green!!!

[Capt Bringdown]

NO had LA on the ropes, that 10 point swing was probably the series IMO

[BRHornet45]

as expected the officiating is clearly in favor of the Lakers tonight. no surprise

[Nathan89]

Another bullshit call.

[TE]

Bad call on Green

[LnGrrrR]

Dumb foul by Willie Green there.

[Spur-Addict]

There seems to be a bit of uncertainty with the refs.

[NRHector]

fucking refs

[jag]

I wanna see Hero Kobe come out for the second half. There's no point doing Kobe Watch updates when he's 2-4.

[Spurtacus]

What injury? Hollywood Kobe looks fine to me.

[Nathan89]

NO had LA on the ropes, that 10 point swing was probably the series IMO

IMO they would be fine if the refs weren't on the Lakers side.

[LakerHater]

NO had LA on the ropes, that 10 point swing was probably the series IMO
Nah, if KoME keeps chunkin up 55' 3s the Bees will be ok!

[NewJerSpur]

NO had LA on the ropes, that 10 point swing was probably the series IMO

Can't just give those away, but ESPECIALLY not on the road....easier said than done but too many possessions running too late into the clock.

[TE]

Once Kobe gets on chucker mode, the Hornets will be given the opportunity to capitalize.

[usdane]

Dumb foul by Willie Green there.

This. Scary when a Celtics fan is the voice of reason here.

[BRHornet45]

the Kobe ankle talk is downright pathetic.

[LakerHater]

What injury? Hollywood Kobe looks fine to me.
Reporters should ask Tony Allen bout KoME's injury!

[NewJerSpur]

Damn the Lakers are big down low.

[redzero]

The Lakers are going to get two chances every time they have possession.

[Spur-Addict]

O boards are killers

[SAtown]

and 1 LOL

[LakerHater]

Whoaaaaa!

[NewJerSpur]

Good call. Okafor is going to work tonight.

[lefty]

Obe ROFKL

[Spur-Addict]

Looked like a travel by Ariza

[jag]

:lmao Jordan would have fouled much harder to prevent the continuation

[lefty]

Daaaaaaaaaaamn

[SAtown]

Damn that was pretty fucking sick :lol

[NewJerSpur]

Damn, Okafor got worked there.

[Spur-Addict]

That's a banger

[LakerHater]

Oh shittt!

[usdane]

Kobe my goodness

[BRHornet45]

lol at the NBA and media lying about Kobe's ankle ... ain't a damn thing wrong with him obviously

[jag]

I closed my eyes. It never happened

[SpursNextRomanEmpire]

Damn, now thats a classic Kobe dunk

[#41 Shoot Em Up]

Facialized that big dummy nikka

[Dim Tuncan]

Kobe done Okafag dirty

[Greg Oden]

you can do stuff like that when your ankles are perfectly healthy.

[NewJerSpur]

Calm down Trevor.

[SpursNextRomanEmpire]

Monty Williams kinda looks like this guy to me

ayWQGYHG2GQ

[Spur-Addict]

Monty, call timeout.

[Nathan89]

I guess Paul didn't get fouled.

[Spurtacus]

Kobe dunk is proof hes faking another injury. Albert and Miler still think he has an ankle injury. Morons.

[LnGrrrR]

There's no excuse for Lakers not getting at least 10+ rebounds against these Hornets every game. :lol

[SAtown]

So Fisher can kick balls and get away with it, is that how it goes?

[Banzai]

nice.

[LakerHater]

KoMe sure does cry after every call!

[IronMexican]

you can do stuff like that when your ankles are perfectly healthy.

Dets why he's playing. He says as long as you play, no excuses. Y U MAD

[lefty]

you can do stuff like that when your ankles are perfectly healthy.

The Greg Oden theory

[usdane]

That was young Kobe right there.

[Capt Bringdown]

Can't just give those away, but ESPECIALLY not on the road....easier said than done but too many possessions running too late into the clock.

That was the series. Lakers got this.

[NewJerSpur]

Paul getting up for that one.....when the ball goes up on tips, NO's wings have to attack the boards just like their bigs to have a chance because the bigs can't do it all, forget about trying to get back.

[Spur-Addict]

I hate when coaches don't call timeout when they're supposed to. This is a playoff game, not a regular season game where you're putting players in situations to learn.

[LkrFan]

Emeka Post-a-for.

[BRHornet45]

Hornets are getting hacked and damn near tackled under the basket and the refs simply turn the other cheek ... Kobe shoots a fade away jumper and he is awarded freebies!

[Nathan89]

Paul got obviously fouled but the refs decided to swallow the whistle again.

[Greg Oden]

The Greg Oden theory

lefty

[NRHector]

lol at the NBA and media lying about Kobe's ankle ... ain't a damn thing wrong with him obviouslywhat do you expect? he's in LA the land of the acting

[jag]

Kobe's injuries are like the joke of the League. He makes Dwyane Wade look tough as a motherf'er.

[redzero]

Ball getting up for that one.....when the ball goes up on tips, NO's wings have to attack the boards just like their bigs to have a chance because the bigs can't do it all, forget about trying to get back.

It's like they aren't even trying to get the defensive rebound. Good defense is meaningless if a team can't rebound the ball.

[Spur-Addict]

Emeka Post-a-for.

:lol

Yeah, he got banged on.

[Nathan89]

Why the fuck are you all talking about Kobe the momentum would have stopped with a foul call. How can Lakerfan be happy when they get cheated for.

[NewJerSpur]

That was the series. Lakers got this.

Either that or that dunk. :lol


It's like they aren't even trying to get the defensive rebound. Good defense is meaningless if a team can't rebound the ball.

:tu

[Spur-Addict]

O boards will KILL YOU

[SAtown]

The Lakers are going to get two chances every time they have possession.

:tu

[jag]

Ariza showing why he ended up playing for the Hornets.

[Nathan89]

Up and Down on Artest.

[LnGrrrR]

Nice ball momentum by the Lakers there. CP3 needs to be more aggressive if they want to win.

[NewJerSpur]

Bellinelli getting outworked for looseballs by Fisher.

[davethedope]

the bad calls mount up. Like 4-5 in the first half, you forget about, and then in crunch time, your main man's got 5 fouls, and you're like how did that happen. It's just insurance. But with the misses and turnovers, the Horneys aren't helping their cause.

[SAtown]

More Paul less Ariza plz

[NewJerSpur]

What a game.

[peskypesky]

Chris Paul is a gangster

[peskypesky]

but so is Kobe

[redzero]

Monty needs to tell this team to rebound the fucking ball. How many chances are they going to give the Lakers?

[Spur-Addict]

Good first half.

Reggie, his foot is fine.

[Isitjustme?]

Kobe interview; here comes the bullshit.

[LnGrrrR]

Holy shit the announcers are sucking Kobe's dick :lol

[NewJerSpur]

More Paul less Ariza plz

Ariza's killing them on offense with his one-on-one display.....if 2 bigs try to block whatever you throw up, you think someone would be open somewhere around the basket.

[NewcastleKEG]

Lakers playing offensively as well as they've played all year....and it's a tie game

This just shows that defensively the Lakers don't have it this year to repeat. Well unless they get +20 free throws again

[Jelloisjigglin]

lol at anklegate

[SAtown]

Do you think Cheryl Miller gets uncomfortable interviewing a rapist?

[BRHornet45]

lol ankle injury

lol media trying to protect their poster boy with BS excuses

lol Lakers only up 3 points despite ridiculous amount of help from refs

[Banzai]

exciting.

[TE]

bad quarter for the Hornets, might have turned the series to the Lakers

[LkrFan]

More Paul less Ariza plz

Ariza got 16 points at the half. WTF are you talking bout?