PJ "Kobe's as Good as Michael

[Jloyola]

http://lakernation.com/2011/04/phil-jackson-%E2%80%9Ckobe%E2%80%99s-as-good-as-michael%E2%80%9D/

Phil Jackson, who knows both players better then anybody on the planet, having coached both of them to each of their NBA championship’s, had this to say:
“I wouldn’t compare them,” said Jackson, who coached both. “I think Kobe’s as good as Michael.”

:p:

[rayjayjohnson]

jackson mind games

[Hooks]

:lol :lol :lol :lol Good one Phil.

[rayjayjohnson]

hey, actual question here -

i was a lot younger when MJ was beasting, and not living in the US it was a lot harder to comprehensively follow the NBA.

Is the standard of play now better than it was in the 90s? Would MJ win 6 if he played now, with, hypothetically, rose as his pippen?

[rayjayjohnson]

i know he had that year where he averaged 37 ppg or something, but is the nba a better competition now?

[Muser]

If you mean replace Keith Bogans with prime Jordan then this Bulls team wins it every year and it's not even close.

[namlook]

i know he had that year where he averaged 37 ppg or something, but is the nba a better competition now?

People will never agree on this issue.

[21_Blessings]

If you mean replace Keith Bogans with Kobe then this Bulls team wins it every year and it's not even close.

[Muser]

That too yeah

[TheMACHINE]

nigga...the 90's owned. Fucking Larry Johnson, Glen Rice, and Craig Ehlo just to name a few of the stars.

[21_Blessings]

i know he had that year where he averaged 37 ppg or something, but is the nba a better competition now?

Scoring (along with FG%), on average, was higher back then.

35 in the zone era > 37 showtime era

[LkrFan]

This is not new a new quote from PJ - he said that years ago. PJ has even said that Kobe is more skilled than MJ.

[jag]

hey, actual question here -

i was a lot younger when MJ was beasting, and not living in the US it was a lot harder to comprehensively follow the NBA.

Is the standard of play now better than it was in the 90s? Would MJ win 6 if he played now, with, hypothetically, rose as his pippen?

It was a different style of play. The refs allowed players to get very physical on both ends of the floor. There was also much greater emphasis on defense that came with that physicality. It was the last time the League had multiple, dominant all-star big men in both conferences.

MJ would absolutely clean up in today's League. It would be a sight.

[TheGreatest23]

i've seen both play and i think offensively, Kobe is better then Jordan...but Jordan is better in defense. Just imo and i know people will probably not agree with me. I just think Kobe has better range, but has the same skill in the low post and mid range.

[Sportcamper]

Seriously…I got to see MJ play when he was young against the Clippers quite often…It looked like MJ was traveling at 2x speed when he went baseline or drove to the basket…I mean I know it was against the Clippers but a young MJ was scary fast…We needed to see the replay to figure out how he drove past three defenders without any on them getting a hand on him…Lots of ahhhhhhs from the LA crowd…:lol

[TheNextGen]

Lets be honest here...

Lets say Kobe is Jordan...then in Jordans era, who is Lebron James, Dwyane Wade, Kevin Durant and Derrick Rose in that era? Is John Stockton like Derrick Rose? lol

[stretch]

It was a different style of play. The refs allowed players to get very physical on both ends of the floor. There was also much greater emphasis on defense that came with that physicality. It was the last time the League had multiple, dominant all-star big men in both conferences.

MJ would absolutely clean up in today's League. It would be a sight.

I do agree that it was definitely a different style of play, although I think the talent level overall was far less than it is currently. There was definitely more traditional style big-men (more post oriented players, while today has more bigmen with perimeter skills like Dirk, Garnett, etc...), but back then, Jordan was pretty much the only of his mold. There wasn't any 2s or 3s that were both extremely talented scorers mixed with insane athletic ability. No one back then aside from Jordan had the combo of skills/athleticism of guys like Wade, Kobe, Lebron, Durant, Carmello, etc... today, there are a lot of guys who can most definitely be considered in the same category as Jordan in those two areas. Not to mention PGs like Rose, CP3, D-Will, Parker, or Nash.

What sets Jordan apart from these guys is not his ability, but his leadership. His extreme disdain for losing was infectious.

[ElNono]

http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/2/laugh.gif

[Killakobe81]

the 90's was good but definitely not great like the 80's or even the 00's ....

i loved LJ but back troubles robbed him of his explosiveness ... and just a guess but that post was dripping with sarcasm ...LOL Craig ehlo ...subtle.

[cobbler]

Competition on MJ's second threepeat was weak with expansion etc...

Nothing like today.

Much tougher on his first.

[Killakobe81]

MJ would be great in any ERA period.anyone that would say otherwise did NOT see him play. that being said ... I watched whole series where his primary defenders were guys with zero shot of competing with him athletically (so thank God for the handcheck rules) look at the two guards of the good teams of his era: Ehlo, hornacek, starks, BScott, Miller, ainge, Dumars, Dale ellis, Ro blackmon, etc.

some very good players but the guys that were in the area code of Mj as athletes (starks and Scott) were vastly undersized. The guys that did have size (Drexler and ron Harper) ...harp blew a knee and Mj destroyed Clyde in the finals ...to dismiss the truth that MJ had such a huge advantage in that era is crazy. he was like Babe ruth or jim Brown. As much as admire Kobe he is NOT that a great player who works hard at his craft, but MJ was "gamechanger" ...

One caveat to the above ...the two guards were weak but the centers were MUCH better in Mj's era than Kobe's so that and handchecking balance the argument back in Mj's favor ...but Mj's prime era early to the mid 90's was fairly weak TBH ...

Cobbler was right his comp in 1st 3 peat was vastly superior ...

[xtremesteven33]

Id be inclined to say Jordan > Kobe

But all ill get back from Lakerfan is:

Kobe 5
Duncan 4

eh well...

[Reck]

I dont know why people keep making threads about Jordan=Kobe.

It ain't never happening folks.

Jordan is just....all by himself.

Only delussional Lakers fans think Kobe is somehow at a Jordan level.

[Pelicans78]

I think Kobe's skill level is up there with Jordan if not better, but he was not quite athletic and I think Jordan had a higher IQ, but Kobe is not far behind.

[TheMACHINE]

I dont know why people keep making threads about Jordan=Kobe.

It ain't never happening folks.

Jordan is just....all by himself.

Only delussional Lakers fans think Kobe is somehow at a Jordan level.

i dont think Kobe > Jordan but its dumb to think he's not pretty damn close.

But then again, what does PJ know about basketball anyways.

[jag]

Phil says things like that because he wants Kobe to think his legacy is cemented. His greatest challenge this season has been keeping Kobe out of hero mode. Kobe singlehandedly losing games has been interesting to watch.

[monosylab1k]

Phil Jackson knows he's gotta keep constantly handjobbing Kobe if he wants to get another ring. He went with the "be honest to Kobe" route and Kobe responded by ripping the franchise to shreds.

[monosylab1k]

But then again, what does PJ know about basketball anyways.

He knows that Zen Buddhist bullcrap and shitty triangle offenses can win rings when you have stacked teams.

[cobbler]

I dont know why people keep making threads about Jordan=Kobe.

It ain't never happening folks.

Jordan is just....all by himself.

Only delussional Lakers fans think Kobe is somehow at a Jordan level.

Serious question...

Kobe right now vs MJ in his Wizard years?

[xtremesteven33]

This era of basketball is all about numbers and stats. Jordan was on a plateau of his own whom every athlete (not just basketball) will be compared to.

Kobe is trying his hardest to eclipse Michael while everyone who knows both players sits back and laughs and knows no way in hell is this even close. Its not about numbers and championships anymore. Its about the players. Doesnt matter how many championships the NBA will monopolize for Kobe anymore. Stats lie...

[Reck]

i dont think Kobe > Jordan but its dumb to think he's not pretty damn close.

But then again, what does PJ know about basketball anyways.

I'm not disputing the fact that Kobe is the closest to. Damn right he is. But I wouldn't go further saying that.

[Reck]

Serious question...

Kobe right now vs MJ in his Wizard years?

LOL I was going to post that earlier but thought better of it.

[Killakobe81]

Phil says things like that because he wants Kobe to think his legacy is cemented. His greatest challenge this season has been keeping Kobe out of hero mode. Kobe singlehandedly losing games has been interesting to watch.

yep, "total team losses" are far less interesting ... LOL

[Jloyola]

i know he had that year where he averaged 37 ppg or something, but is the nba a better competition now?

Depends who you ask...

MJ had the benefit of playing "expansion era" of the NBA, Magic was past him prime, Bird was battling back injuries, and the pistons were no longer the "bad boys".

MJ also played in a era were there was no hand checking and what we classify a "flagrant foul" today would be consider only a hard foul then.

Plus no one in the nba was as athletically (offense and defense) gifted and as mentally tough as MJ!


Kobe on the other hand had the benefits to start his career with a 1st Ballot HOF, who is also entering his prime leaving Kobe as the "2nd Fiddle", "Robin", "Sidekick" role.

While winning championships, Kobe's personal stats and achievements can be debated has being diminished. Kobe also played in an era where the new stars were tremendously athletic, but fundamentally flawed and many lacked mental toughness to win a championship.

[DMC]

Kobe is the best of his era, but no where near Jordan who's the best of all time.

[ElNono]

As HarlemHo once said... we already know what Phil thinks of Kobe when he isn't under Buss' payroll...

[DMC]

Serious question...

Kobe right now vs MJ in his Wizard years?

Ditka

[ElNono]

Serious question...

Kobe right now vs MJ in his Wizard years?

Kobe, no doubt... serious question isn't serious though...

[Cessation]

Only fanboys and homers think bean should be in conversation with jordan.

[K-State Spur]

jordan wasn't as all-around skilled as kobe, but MJ had a much better idea of what he was and stayed within that zone.

if you remove the Washington years, Jordan's career LOW (in full seasons) shooting percentage was 47%. Bryant's career HIGH is...47%.

it should also be noted that MJ compiled his numbers while typically chasing the opponent's best perimeter scorer, night in and night out. now...kobe's historically been a pretty good defender too (when he wants to be), but Jax has typically hidden him on weaker scorers to save him for offense.

[Jloyola]

Would kinda like to see an advance stat on MJ's and Kobe's teammates such as "Were there teammate's "advance stat" better or worse before and after they became teammates?"

[Jelloisjigglin]

I think Kobe's skill level is up there with Jordan if not better, but he was not quite athletic and I think Jordan had a higher IQ, but Kobe is not far behind.


Pretty much this.

[HarlemHeat37]

As HarlemHo once said... we already know what Phil thinks of Kobe when he isn't under Buss' payroll...

HarlemHo? really? who are you trying to appeal to here?..

[HarlemHeat37]

:lol Only Laker fan would care that their own coach complimented his own player:lol..what the fuck else is Phil supposed to say?..

Phil Jackson's thoughts on Kobe are well known..he wrote an entire book, during the only time of this decade where he wasn't employed by the Lakers, where he completely bashes Kobe..that was the only unbiased opinion Jackson could have had, during this decade..

In this book, he implies that Kobe is a rapist..he calls him a sidekick, numerous times..he says that Kobe's defense is overrated, and that he didn't deserve the all-NBA teams he made(this was during Kobe's defensive "prime", when his fans argued that he actually deserved to make it)..I can go on, he completely bashes him..

As for Kobe vs. Jordan, :lol..Jordan murders Kobe in every category..whether it's accomplishments, regular stats, advanced stats, performances in clutch situations, performances in big games, dominance in relation to supporting cast, etc..Jordan destroys him..

Kobe's only advantage is competition, but even then, the current Lakers run has had some of the easiest competition in NBA history..

[cobbler]

Oh yeah... Nothing says "UNBIASED" like a book weeks after being FIRED!

:lmao

[Cessation]

:lol Only Laker fan would care that their own coach complimented his own player:lol..what the fuck else is Phil supposed to say?..

Phil Jackson's thoughts on Kobe are well known..he wrote an entire book, during the only time of this decade where he wasn't employed by the Lakers, where he completely bashes Kobe..that was the only unbiased opinion Jackson could have had, during this decade..

In this book, he implies that Kobe is a rapist..he calls him a sidekick, numerous times..he says that Kobe's defense is overrated, and that he didn't deserve the all-NBA teams he made(this was during Kobe's defensive "prime", when his fans argued that he actually deserved to make it)..I can go on, he completely bashes him..

As for Kobe vs. Jordan, :lol..Jordan murders Kobe in every category..whether it's accomplishments, regular stats, advanced stats, performances in clutch situations, performances in big games, dominance in relation to supporting cast, etc..Jordan destroys him..

Kobe's only advantage is competition, but even then, the current Lakers run has had some of the easiest competition in NBA history..

Quality post, I should check out that book, sounds like an interesting read.

[rayjayjohnson]

:lol Only Laker fan would care that their own coach complimented his own player:lol..what the fuck else is Phil supposed to say?..

Phil Jackson's thoughts on Kobe are well known..he wrote an entire book, during the only time of this decade where he wasn't employed by the Lakers, where he completely bashes Kobe..that was the only unbiased opinion Jackson could have had, during this decade..

In this book, he implies that Kobe is a rapist..he calls him a sidekick, numerous times..he says that Kobe's defense is overrated, and that he didn't deserve the all-NBA teams he made(this was during Kobe's defensive "prime", when his fans argued that he actually deserved to make it)..I can go on, he completely bashes him..

As for Kobe vs. Jordan, :lol..Jordan murders Kobe in every category..whether it's accomplishments, regular stats, advanced stats, performances in clutch situations, performances in big games, dominance in relation to supporting cast, etc..Jordan destroys him..

Kobe's only advantage is competition, but even then, the current Lakers run has had some of the easiest competition in NBA history..

i agree with what you're saying, but was he really unbiased when he wrote that book? wasn't he massively butthurt about the lakers organisation at that point? i can't remember, was he schtuping buss' daughter at that point?

[cobbler]

jordan wasn't as all-around skilled as kobe, but MJ had a much better idea of what he was and stayed within that zone.

if you remove the Washington years, Jordan's career LOW (in full seasons) shooting percentage was 47%. Bryant's career HIGH is...47%.

it should also be noted that MJ compiled his numbers while typically chasing the opponent's best perimeter scorer, night in and night out. now...kobe's historically been a pretty good defender too (when he wants to be), but Jax has typically hidden him on weaker scorers to save him for offense.

Why remove his wiz years? Longevity is a factor. Kobe rignt now is at his Wiz years in terms of timespan. MJ was done. Kobe is far from it. Let's see how it all plays out when he is.

[HarlemHeat37]

i agree with what you're saying, but was he really unbiased when he wrote that book? wasn't he massively butthurt about the lakers organisation at that point? i can't remember, was he schtuping buss' daughter at that point?

Phil was still dating Jeanie Buss, at the time of his departure..

I would recommend Phil's book to anybody that hasn't read it, quality stuff..his stories about Kobe are eye-opening, I didn't know a human being could be of such shitty quality..

[Cessation]

Why remove his wiz years? Longevity is a factor. Kobe rignt now is at his Wiz years in terms of timespan. MJ was done. Kobe is far from it. Let's see how it all plays out when he is.

lol jordan was 40 when he played for the wiz, you really think bone on bone will be playing pro ball at that age?

[TheNextGen]

lol...writing a book bashing Kobe, only to come back anyways and win 2 rings with the guy he bashed.

I guess Pj doesnt have credibility after-all. lol

[rayjayjohnson]

Phil was still dating Jeanie Buss, at the time of his departure..

I would recommend Phil's book to anybody that hasn't read it, quality stuff..his stories about Kobe are eye-opening, I didn't know a human being could be of such shitty quality..

seriously? after everything you've seen and heard about kobe, you're still surprised when you find out he's a total knob?

[Cessation]

Phil was still dating Jeanie Buss, at the time of his departure..

I would recommend Phil's book to anybody that hasn't read it, quality stuff..his stories about Kobe are eye-opening, I didn't know a human being could be of such shitty quality..

Bean being a scumbag doesn't surprise me at all.

[TheNextGen]

tbh, im surprised someone like Harlem doesnt like someone like Kobe.

[cobbler]

lol jordan was 40 when he played for the wiz, you really think bone on bone will be playing pro ball at that age?

37 and the mileage (gametime) is about the same. Kobe will be playing at 37 yes.

[cobbler]

Phil was still dating Jeanie Buss, at the time of his departure..

I would recommend Phil's book to anybody that hasn't read it, quality stuff..his stories about Kobe are eye-opening, I didn't know a human being could be of such shitty quality..

Really? No mirrors in your world?

[namlook]

Bean being a scumbag doesn't surprise me at all.

You can't have the kind of dominant personalities both Jordan and Kobe have and not be an asshole and a scumbag at times.

[cobbler]

How did you deal with that when Phil Jackson left the team? I know it is tough because you have your boyfriend on one side and your dad and organization on the other.

JB: Yeah, you know sometimes when I'm talking with my dad, I said 'when Phil got fired', he says 'he didn't get fired, his contract wasn't renewed.' I go, 'okay, whatever.' That was probably that toughest time of my life. It
really was because I saw that Phil wasn't really ready to go and I think he felt he had more to do with this organization.


Nope... cannot possibly see any bitterness there. And how can you someone use PJ's book as an example when the very same man came crawling back. What PJ do you believe? Maybe the Kobe haters should read about PJ's previous backstabbing of assistant coaches etc. Some source.

[HarlemHeat37]

Obviously, it didn't surprise me that Kobe was a piece of shit..you kind of expect that from a rapist..

However, I was surprised to read/hear about confrontations that he had with Phil Jackson, a HOFer and 9 time champion(at the time), along with Kobe's veteran teammates..Kobe was like 23-24 at the time, so you would expect some respect, he wasn't an old vet..I was surprised that a student of the game, like Kobe, would treat a legend like Phil Jackson in that way..

[TheMACHINE]

lol harlem hating pieces of shit people
lol harlem in love with mayweather and lebron
lol he did it for the kids
lol pac must be on hgh

[namlook]

However, I was surprised to read/hear about confrontations that he had with Phil Jackson, a HOFer and 9 time champion(at the time), along with Kobe's veteran teammates..

Yeah Jordan was a sweetheart. :lol

"They've got no idea what it's all about. The white guys, they work hard, but they don't have the talent. And the rest of them? Who knows what to expect? They're not good for much of anything."

"Give me the ******* ball." - Michael to Doug Collins who drew up a play for Dave Corzine

"I hate when I have to read that in the papers the next day, that I couldn't do something. It wasn't my fault."

"You're an idiot. You've screwed up every play we ever ran. You're too stupid to even remember the plays. We ought to get rid of you." - Michael to Horace Grant

"If you [pass the ball to Bill Cartwright], you'll never get the ball from me."

"Headache tonight, Scottie?" - Michael asks Scottie, while showing him his 2-for-16 line

"Five more years and I'm out of here. I'm marking these days on a calendar, like I'm in jail. I'm tired of being used by this organization, by the league, by the writers, by everyone."

"They're not interested in winning. They just want to sell tickets, which they can do because of me. They won't make any deals to make us better. And this Kukoc thing. I hate that. They're spending all their time chasing this guy."

"If I were a general manager, we'd be a better team."

"He can't do anything with the ball. Don't give it to him." - Michael yelling at Paxson who passed the ball to Perdue

"I'm sure everything will be fine if we win, but if we start losing, I'm shooting."

"I know what I would do if I were coach. I'd determine our strengths and weaknesses and utilize them. And it's pretty clear what our strength is."

"He's causing me too many turnovers." - Michael on Cartwright's inability to catch

[HarlemHeat37]

Did I mention Jordan's personality?..

Jordan was a piece of shit, too, not as bad as Kobe, obviously, but he has many antisocial traits..

However, to be fair, the Kobe stories came from Phil Jackson himself..not writers..

[Ed Lover]

Why remove his wiz years? Longevity is a factor. Kobe rignt now is at his Wiz years in terms of timespan. MJ was done. Kobe is far from it. Let's see how it all plays out when he is.

c'mon son, you need to roll up on out of this thread

fuckin cripple

getdafuckouttaherewitdatboolshit

[namlook]

Did I mention Jordan's personality?..

Jordan was a piece of shit, too, not as bad as Kobe, obviously, but he has many antisocial traits..

It goes with the territory with guys like this. If they were nice guys they wouldn't have had the mentality that has helped make them as dominant as they have been on the court.

[Koolaid_Man]

hey, actual question here -

i was a lot younger when MJ was beasting, and not living in the US it was a lot harder to comprehensively follow the NBA.

Is the standard of play now better than it was in the 90s? Would MJ win 6 if he played now, with, hypothetically, rose as his pippen?


So you come here from Africa and act a complete ass...Shameful dude...

[Koolaid_Man]

Yeah Jordan was a sweetheart. :lol

"They've got no idea what it's all about. The white guys, they work hard, but they don't have the talent. And the rest of them? Who knows what to expect? They're not good for much of anything."

"Give me the ******* ball." - Michael to Doug Collins who drew up a play for Dave Corzine

"I hate when I have to read that in the papers the next day, that I couldn't do something. It wasn't my fault."

"You're an idiot. You've screwed up every play we ever ran. You're too stupid to even remember the plays. We ought to get rid of you." - Michael to Horace Grant

"If you [pass the ball to Bill Cartwright], you'll never get the ball from me."

"Headache tonight, Scottie?" - Michael asks Scottie, while showing him his 2-for-16 line

"Five more years and I'm out of here. I'm marking these days on a calendar, like I'm in jail. I'm tired of being used by this organization, by the league, by the writers, by everyone."

"They're not interested in winning. They just want to sell tickets, which they can do because of me. They won't make any deals to make us better. And this Kukoc thing. I hate that. They're spending all their time chasing this guy."

"If I were a general manager, we'd be a better team."

"He can't do anything with the ball. Don't give it to him." - Michael yelling at Paxson who passed the ball to Perdue

"I'm sure everything will be fine if we win, but if we start losing, I'm shooting."

"I know what I would do if I were coach. I'd determine our strengths and weaknesses and utilize them. And it's pretty clear what our strength is."

"He's causing me too many turnovers." - Michael on Cartwright's inability to catch


Don't forget the best line of all " You're A Flaming Faggot" - MJ to Kwame...:lol


and the punch to Paxson's Jaw...:lmao

[Medvedenko]

LOL harmlem heat.....how old are you bro...
This youtube and basketball reference generation is laughable when comparing players and evaluating talent. You didn't even watch MJ when he was coming up or even when he was in his prime.

I've seen both and Kobe is more talented, however team accomplishments trump Kobe's legacy in comparison. However, I've beat this drum for years now. Nothing new.

[ElNono]

HarlemHo? really? who are you trying to appeal to here?..

The masses, obviously, tbh, imo.