Terry Porter Says Pistons are Better [Archive]

Guru of Nothing

06-08-2005, 10:07 AM

Pistons Will Repeat (http://www.jsonline.com/sports/buck/jun05/332050.asp)

Milwaukee Bucks coach Terry Porter thinks the defending champion Detroit Pistons will defeat the San Antonio Spurs and win their second consecutive National Basketball Association championship.

"I think it will be a very close series," said Porter on Tuesday afternoon from Chicago where he is attending this week's NBA pre-draft camp. "My heart is in San Antonio because I played there and I played with some of those guys. But it's hard to go against the defending champs. If there is a team that can beat the Pistons, San Antonio is the team. But no, I still have to go with Detroit."

Porter played the last three seasons of his 17-year playing career with the Spurs, the last coming in 2001-'02.

He considers Detroit's half-court offense to be better than San Antonio's. He expects San Antonio to try to get points in transition.

"Detroit has the advantage in terms of how selective they are and how efficient they are offensively," Porter said. "I think it has to be an up and down game for San Antonio, although San Antonio is not a fast-break team. I think in the half-court, Chauncey Billups is stronger than Tony (Parker). Detroit also has two great shot-blockers, kind of what the Spurs had when they had David (Robinson), two big guys who are very mobile, very athletic. Granted, the Wallaces (Ben and Rasheed) are not 7-feet but they have so much athleticism, they separate from other teams because of that."

Porter gives the Pistons the nod on the defensive end as well, but with some qualifications.

"I would say that Detroit has better individual defenders and San Antonio has a better defensive scheme," Porter said. "There really is a difference. You look at the guys Detroit has. Tayshaun (Prince), Rip (Hamilton), Chauncey, Ben Wallace and Rasheed, who definitely is underrated as far as his defensive ability.

"You look at San Antonio," Porter said. "Tony Parker has problems with bigger point guards posting him up. (Manu) Ginobli is one of the fiercest competitors and so is Bruce Bowen. Overall, Tim is very good. Although (Nazr) Mohammed has played great in the playoffs, I wouldn't put him in the category of either one of the Wallaces when it comes to defense."

Porter said much of the effectiveness of the Spurs' offense comes when Duncan is double-teamed, who then finds open teammates who make the shots. But Detroit does not double-team much and that changes the dynamic. Porter pointed to the Eastern Conference championship series, when the Pistons chose much of the time to single-cover Miami center Shaquille O'Neal.

"They didn't double-team Shaq a lot," Porter said. "The guy who had him kind of took over. What that did was allow the other guys to (guard their own men). Damon Jones, who had a great year, all of a sudden didn't do anything. He didn't get the touches.

"It might be the same for those perimeter guys in San Antonio," Porter said. "If they decide not to double Timmy and he is taking his 20-25 shots and they are not getting up and down, where are those other guys going to get shots? How are they going to get into the rhythm of the game? You get a shot once every four or five minutes, it's tough at times."

Porter said Rasheed Wallace essentially is the same player for Detroit that he was for Portland, but there's a world of difference between the two teams, and that's benefited Wallace.

"I think the biggest thing is he has a team around him," Porter said. "In Portland, I don't think it got to the point where it was a truly committed team. Maybe a couple of guys, but overall they didn't have enough of them. Detroit is committed. They are a team. They play the right way. They have a coach.

"I think Rasheed is one of those guys when he is asked to be the man night in and night out, he's going to have a difficult time doing it. But in Detroit, it's not on him every night. But it's been proven that when he plays the way he played in Game 7 (against Miami), that team can't be beaten."

Porter said he expects Rasheed Wallace to defend Duncan much of the time because Wallace, when he was with the Trail Blazers, was one of the few players in the Western Conference who gave Duncan a tough time.

In Porter's estimation, the issue of Larry Brown's employment next season has not been a distraction to the Pistons' players.

They may have to answer questions about it when they are not playing, but that's the only effect it has.

"They are in a championship now," Porter said. "They're focused on what they have to get done. I think Larry and his staff are still doing the job they need to do to get those guys ready. Those guys have been there before so they know how to play.

"It's not a situation where it's a lot of distraction if they step on the floor. Once you step on the floor, all the extra stuff you don't worry about."

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Nikos

06-08-2005, 10:12 AM

Pistons have an efficient offense? Since when? Last time they had one was back in the late 80s.

nkdlunch

06-08-2005, 10:13 AM

He's underestimating our half-court offense. Just because we ran all-night vs. Phoenix, doesn't mean we don't have a good half-court offense, or at least better than Detroit's.

LilMissSPURfect

06-08-2005, 10:16 AM

if they don't double timmy......woulddn't the obvious thing to do is to let manu and parker drive all nite? and barry and devin?

Useruser666

06-08-2005, 10:17 AM

Man, being the coach of the Bucs will mess with your mind.

2centsworth

06-08-2005, 10:20 AM

Terry still thinks he's on the team. We are one of the quickest and not slowest teams like when Terry was here.

SPARKY

06-08-2005, 10:20 AM

Terry Porter hears Piston job might be available...

1Parker1

06-08-2005, 10:21 AM

Pistons have an efficient offense? Since when? Last time they had one was back in the late 80s.

That's exactly what I was thinking. That's why he's coaching the Bucks...

SpursWoman

06-08-2005, 10:21 AM

??

http://www.boomspeed.com/sweetc/sourgrapes.bmp

:lol

boutons

06-08-2005, 10:22 AM

"if they don't double timmy......woulddn't the obvious thing to do is to let manu and parker drive all nite? "

The Lakers managed to shutdown Tim AND stop Tony's driving last May. and the outside shooting wasn't there to open up the paint.

The 05 Spurs are quite a bit different, because Pop let's them be, than last May's Spurs.

spur219

06-08-2005, 10:28 AM

Well Terry Porter doesn't know what he is talking about right.

Extra Stout

06-08-2005, 10:28 AM

Porter's analysis is based upon actual basketball knowledge, and not the usual media garbage about "Sheed's feelin' it" or whatever. I give him props for that. It is a close series.

What I think he may be missing is that Tim Duncan is not the only Spur who can initiate offense, as he was back when Porter played for the Spurs.

Porter said much of the effectiveness of the Spurs' offense comes when Duncan is double-teamed, who then finds open teammates who make the shots.
That's how it used to be, when Porter played in SA, and indeed, the Lakers could just let Timmy get his, shut down everybody else, and game over.

But Manu Ginobili and Tony Parker also initiate offense for this team. The offensive scheme is more versatile and sophisticated than it was three years ago.

However, Detroit is going to have a certain degree of success disrupting what Manu and Tony like to do. They will defend them when they don't have the ball, and deny the pass in places where they like to receive it. How effective Detroit is in doing this will go a long way in determining how well the Spurs execute their halfcourt offense.

Porter could be right. Detroit may well game plan for letting Duncan get his the first three quarters, limiting everybody else, then changing the look on Duncan in the fourth and forcing everyone else to make contested shots out of rhythm. The Lakers used to do that to the Spurs, and the Spurs just got finished doing something like that to the Suns.

Ed Helicopter Jones

06-08-2005, 10:30 AM

I'm interested to see how the matchups work.

If Tim's ankles hold up I think he can get the Wallaces in foul trouble in single coverage. I expect him to have a big series.

Billups will be a challenge for Tony. That one does worry me primarily because of how Tony tends to get pushed around by bigger players sometimes. Tony will have to be aggressive and play to his strengths to mitigate Chauncey's game a little bit.

I expect Horry and Robinson to do well off the bench, and I think Barry will have a decent series. This isn't a matchup that would lead you to think he'd perform all that well, but let's just say I have a feeling about our maligned little guard in this one.

Porter talked about the Spurs shooters being challenged more, but I didn't see a lot of defenders in the Pistons faces much in the first three rounds. Detroit hasn't faced a truly tough defensive team in this playoffs. . . and they didn't last year either.

Spurs in 6.

Nikos

06-08-2005, 10:32 AM

What about the Spurs ability to stop Detroit's mediocre offense?

Just because the Pistons limit what the Spurs like to do, doesn't mean the Spurs can't limit THEM even more.

PistonFreak

06-08-2005, 10:32 AM

Yep, Barry is the one that scares me on your team.

duncan_21

06-08-2005, 10:36 AM

He considers Detroit's half-court offense to be better than San Antonio's. He expects San Antonio to try to get points in transition.

What?!! Yeah like you can't double team off of ben wallace who has zero ability at the offensive end. That's hilarious.

"Detroit has the advantage in terms of how selective they are and how efficient they are offensively," Porter said. "I think it has to be an up and down game for San Antonio, although San Antonio is not a fast-break team. I think in the half-court, Chauncey Billups is stronger than Tony (Parker). Detroit also has two great shot-blockers, kind of what the Spurs had when they had David (Robinson), two big guys who are very mobile, very athletic. Granted, the Wallaces (Ben and Rasheed) are not 7-feet but they have so much athleticism, they separate from other teams because of that."

Yeah, det is real selective when billups forces the issue and shoots awful shots. Det is one of the ugliest half court teams I've seen.

Porter said much of the effectiveness of the Spurs' offense comes when Duncan is double-teamed, who then finds open teammates who make the shots. But Detroit does not double-team much and that changes the dynamic. Porter pointed to the Eastern Conference championship series, when the Pistons chose much of the time to single-cover Miami center Shaquille O'Neal.

Go ahead det don't double duncan. I dare you. He'll score more then wilt did in the motel rooms.

Well porter is officially a dope in my book, what was milqaukee's record again.

Extra Stout

06-08-2005, 10:40 AM

Well porter is officially a dope in my book, what was milqaukee's record again.

Sure, Terry Porter, former Spur and current NBA headcoach, is a "dope."

Typical fan idiocy. "What? He picked against the Spurs?! He must be retarded!"

Bwin

06-08-2005, 10:53 AM

Sure, Terry Porter, former Spur and current NBA headcoach, is a "dope."

Typical fan idiocy. "What? He picked against the Spurs?! He must be retarded!"
Cause he picked against his old team makes him retarded? Old Pistons coach Chuck Daly picked the Heat to beat the Pistons.

Rick Von Braun

06-08-2005, 10:55 AM

Cause he picked against his old team makes him retarded? Old Pistons coach Chuck Daly picked the Heat to beat the Pistons.'

<swiiiish!!!!>

Some Pistons fans are not very smart.

Ed Helicopter Jones

06-08-2005, 11:02 AM

Yep, Barry is the one that scares me on your team.

They should all scare you.

Jimcs50

06-08-2005, 11:05 AM

I like Terry Porter, everyone is entitled their opinions. Most coaches stay within their conferences in their picks, which is understandable.

SpursWoman

06-08-2005, 11:07 AM

I miss Terry's Brake Check commercials. :depressed [/random thought]

*sorry to interrupt, please continue......*

FromWayDowntown

06-08-2005, 11:24 AM

Yep, Barry is the one that scares me on your team.

I'd be surprised if Barry had a big role in this series.

Pleasantly surprised, but surprised nonetheless.

SPARKY

06-08-2005, 11:29 AM

If Piston fan is scared of Barry, Rasho must have Piston fan's shoes full of piss.

Fouled Out

06-08-2005, 11:32 AM

bigzak25

06-08-2005, 11:33 AM

i respect porter and his opinion. both teams kicked the bucks ass this season...and it's a tossup imo.

i felt bad porter didn't get a ring with our Spurs...I think that has something to do with his prognostication...

i also like Sparky's take that he has an eye on the detroit job....

Extra Stout

06-08-2005, 11:37 AM

What the hell does he know he sucked as a Spur.Idiot was always driving to the rim for an easy layup and the idiot always threw back the ball to the point guard. HELLO!!!! you are right underneath the rim SHOOT THE DAM BALL!!!!Yes, you are clearly a basketball genius, as evidenced by this post. Since Porter WAS the point guard, was he passing the ball back out to himself? I don't recall his being quick enough to do that.

mavsfan1000

06-08-2005, 11:45 AM

Porter has some good points on that not double teaming Duncan would limit San Antonio's offense. Miami gave Detroit so many problems because Wade was probably the best penetrator in the NBA. He takes it to the hole strong. This is going to be an extremely low scoring series. The thing he failed to realize is Billups is turnover prone which will give San Antonio some fastbreak opportunities like what Miami did.

orhe

06-08-2005, 12:04 PM

yeah, San Antonio did struggle quite a bit when Seattle wasn't doubling Tim. If it wasn't for Manu's heroics that could have been a whole different series. Tony ain't likely to get shit in this series billups is much much stronger than ridnour while Detroit even poses a bigger defensive threat than Seattle.

See, seattle and detroit has some similarities. Seattle for one relied on Ray allen like the pistons depend on Rip to get shots. nevertheless they had Daniels who was unstoppable down the stretch. but his game was more of a penetration game in comparison to billups who shoots jumpers (which i think would be to our advantage).

offensively their big men opts to pop more than roll in their plays (Mcdyess and Rasheed), other than Ben no big man takes the ball strong to the hole in a consistent basis (hell i call it consistent because it's the only thing he opts to do in the few occassions that he wanted to get offense besides that once a game jump shot).

so i guess the pick and roll shouldn't be much of a problem since we can guard both options with relative ease.

Unlike Seattle detroit likes to post more (Billups, Rasheed and Mcdyess). im betting Robert and Nazr could take both big guys.

Their offensive rebounding is slightly weaker than seattle. they tend to tap the ball out more rather than snatch it. Which IMHO is dangerous when the opposing team has someone named Ginobili.

Then they have that bread and butter of theirs w/ Rip running around screens etc. w/ bruce i think we can see rip not shooting a great percentage.

Detroit's offense is too limited to really be the deciding factor. IMO Seattle prepared us well for this series defensively. we just need to execute better against their defense. (which is stellar).

whoopsie i forgot about prince... now that would be a problem

mavsfan1000

06-08-2005, 12:20 PM

I think what will make the difference in this series is Detroit is turnover prone. San Antonio is the best at forcing turnovers which will give San Antonio many fastbreak opportunities. Seattle was very good at not turning it over so the Detroit and Seattle comparison isn't quite similar.

weebo

06-08-2005, 12:21 PM

This series will be decided on how well the Detroit Pistons can handle the Spurs offense. The Pistons have a tendancy to go through shooting droughts. They don't seem likely to push the ball up court for easy transition makes. Having said that, the Pistons are going to have to limit the Spurs transition offense because with Manu, Tony, and Barry the Spurs will be looking to run. In the half court, Duncan will primarily run the offense. I can see the Spurs playing a lot more pick and roll. Manu will be Manu and drive to the lane at almost every oppurtunity. Nazr will board a few and cherry pick off of Duncan's double teams, and Horry will get open looks from beyond the arc. All in all, the Pistons are going to have to show up defensively each game otherwise this will be a short series.

mavsfan1000

06-08-2005, 12:27 PM

Nazr will board a few and cherry pick off of Duncan's double teams, and Horry will get open looks from beyond the arc.
I doubt Detroit will double Duncan.

nkdlunch

06-08-2005, 12:27 PM

Yep, Barry is the one that scares me on your team.

really?? he's like the 5th or 6th guy that should scare u

mavsfan1000

06-08-2005, 12:28 PM

really?? he's like the 5th or 6th guy that should scare u
He makes big shots in the 4th quarter and has done it consistently.

weebo

06-08-2005, 12:31 PM

Actually, I can see the Pistons doubling Duncan at certain points in the series. Maybe not excusively but it will happen.

tlongII

06-08-2005, 12:32 PM

Porter's analysis is right on.

mavsfan1000

06-08-2005, 12:33 PM

If they don't double Shaq than why would they double Duncan? This might happen but rarely.

nkdlunch

06-08-2005, 12:34 PM

Porter's analysis is right on.

That's it, everybody forget it, you can't argue with his point. :angel

Fouled Out

06-08-2005, 12:40 PM

Yes, you are clearly a basketball genius, as evidenced by this post. Since Porter WAS the point guard, was he passing the ball back out to himself? I don't recall his being quick enough to do that.

The guy had no balls in shooting the ball himself!!! He did all that work for nothing. Sorry Dude he did suck.

benjirh

06-08-2005, 12:45 PM

really?? he's like the 5th or 6th guy that should scare u

He scares them because he can shoot. End of story. Yes Barry has struggled for the majority of the year, but that doesn't mean he can't drop the three. And if they focus so much around the big three, then bowen, barry, and rob are going to be getting shots. It's that 5th or 6th option that is supposed to scare you. The first options are going to get theres, but if the bench is putting up points then thats the game.

benjirh

06-08-2005, 12:47 PM

The guy had no balls in shooting the ball himself!!! He did all that work for nothing. Sorry Dude he did suck.

define suck. He was our backup point guard. We got him at the end of his career. He gave us good minutes, good leadership, and decent shooting. Was he at the level of Parker when he was here, no. Did he play well for us, yes.

duncan_21

06-08-2005, 12:49 PM

Sure, Terry Porter, former Spur and current NBA headcoach, is a "dope."

Typical fan idiocy. "What? He picked against the Spurs?! He must be retarded!"

I went a little far with the "dope" part. I still disagree and wonder if he doesn't know what he's talking about. Anyone with a guy named ben wallace can't have a good half court offense.

Really, everybody is entitled to their opinion I just wonder if he's seen more of det since he's played them more and seen less tape of the spurs.

PistonFreak

06-08-2005, 01:20 PM

He makes big shots in the 4th quarter and has done it consistently.

Someone with some commonsense as to why I said he scares me. That and I don't think the pistons bench matches up well with him.

combs84

06-08-2005, 01:26 PM

While I certainly don't get happy because Terry Porter thinks we will win, I must disagree with you guys on our offense. We played some VERY good defensive teams this post-season guys.

Indiana is obviously among the league leaders. And any team with Shaq in the middle is going to be hard to execute on. When we played the Suns, we we're scoring lots of points too. I'm just stating not to underestimate our offense, we can score and have shown that. We just can't do it on a consistent basis, but if i'm not mistaken you share that problem as well.

Comparing your offensive stats against Seattle and the Suns aren't fair when we played better defensive teams.

GrandeDavid

06-08-2005, 01:29 PM

Porter's just jealous because he never got a ring in Phat Antonio or Shortland.

Fouled Out

06-08-2005, 01:51 PM

define suck. He was our backup point guard. We got him at the end of his career. He gave us good minutes, good leadership, and decent shooting. Was he at the level of Parker when he was here, no. Did he play well for us, yes.

At the end of his career, good minutes, the guy was running around the court like a chicken without a head, leadership no mentor maybe, shooting he ran more then he shot, I saw little production out of that guy. If you got a shot at an open lane you hall ass threw it and shoot it. He made stupid passes when he should have shot the ball. He did run threw the lane and came out empty 65 percent of the time. What a waste of energy.

whottt

06-08-2005, 02:05 PM

If we were still relying on Porter to hit shots for us in the playoffs...he'd be right.

I've been nice to Porter because he came here to win a ring and played hard...

But the simple truth of the matter is that cocksucker choked more than anyone ever has on this team...

Is it any coincidence that our titles were bookends to Terry Porter's Spur career?

It's not...Fucking choker.

Hey Terry...maybe one day you'll realize that you are the reason you don't have a ring...

I didn't say it at the time but the day your Spurs career ended I heaved a sigh of relief...mainly because I no longer had to bite my tongue while trying to maintain patience and treat a classy guy with the respect he then deserved...but he's an idiot...he's as a much of a reason as anyone that the Spurs have a less than stellar image of being able to win the big one. He also was a huge factor in our 3 years run of being LA's playoff bitch.

Thanks Speedy and Kerr...Terry? You can STFU and not talk about subjects you aren't qualified to talk about(winning in this case).

bdubya

06-08-2005, 02:14 PM

I must disagree with you guys on our offense.

I don't know, man; gotta be honest with ourselves here. In the regular season, we averaged a paltry 93.3 ppg; might not seem that bad, until you compare it to the Spurs' scorching 96.2. Like the fans here have pointed out, that's a pretty staggering difference, a gulf of oceanic size, a yawning 2.9 ppg chasm into which a champion team could fall and disappear without a trace....hee hee.

TwoHandJam

06-08-2005, 02:56 PM

It may not be a chasm but it is significant. The difference in being #18 in the league vs. being #24.

I'm guessing you already knew that though. The Pistons losing games by 3 points doesn't sound too farfetched to me in this series.

bdubya

06-08-2005, 03:05 PM

Win, loss, nothing either way sounds too farfetched in this series. I do get a kick out of seeing the Pistons' offense called inefficient and "mediocre" when the difference is that small, though.

We can argue stats and matchups all night and all day tomorrow, but with two teams this closely matched, the deciding factors are things you can't measure and tabulate - it'll come down to who's got tighter team play and who just plain wants it more.

spur219

06-08-2005, 03:09 PM

Matchups of course do matter but at the end of the day it all comes out to who wants it more.

admack

06-08-2005, 03:10 PM

You people here really suprise me, if someone says anything different than what you think then automatically
"What the hell does he know he sucked as a Spur.Idiot was always driving to the rim for an easy layup and the idiot always threw back the ball to the point guard. HELLO!!!! you are right underneath the rim SHOOT THE DAM BALL!!!!"

He is an idiot. How can a man with so much basketball experience (championship at that) not know a little something.
Mark my words those 30 pt 17 rebound games for Tim Duncan are over for this season.
I see him averaging 20 and 7, 2 assist and a block. If that is enough to win then the Spurs will but I doubt it.

picnroll

06-08-2005, 03:18 PM

On offense:

Better transition game - Spurs
Better penetrators - Spurs
Better passing game - Spurs
Better low post scorer - Spurs
Better long range shooters - Spurs
Better mid-range game - Pistons
Better running screens - Pistons

When it comes to versatility on offense the Spurs have more weapons to stop.

whottt

06-08-2005, 03:19 PM

We can argue stats and matchups all night and all day tomorrow, but with two teams this closely matched, the deciding factors are things you can't measure and tabulate - it'll come down to who's got tighter team play and who just plain wants it more.

And if those things are equal it will come down to coaching/adjustments, talent and depth...

The coaching is too close to call...we'll give the edge to Brown since he was Pop's mentor...but Pop's two titles make it essentially too close to call.

But there should be absolutely no argument on who has the superior depth and talent IMO.

The Spurs have the capability, and should be able, to match anything Detroit throws at them...The Pistons are almost our equal on D and IMO slightly better in half court O...but they do not have our versatility on offense...And the Pistons do not have a powerful outside, AND INSIDE, scoring capability. I don't think they have the ability to attack us in transition like we can them...we've got an entire back court of A list transition guards that are almost as adept at the half court set as the Pistons guards have become...

We are either close or better in your strengths...but I just don't think you guys can match our depth and versatility.

The only way the Spurs lose is if they beat themselves...IE they choke.
It's a possibility...we have done it before. But it still boils down to you guys hoping we give you help and beat ourselves...

The Pistons can lose without choking...the Spurs cannot.

mavsfan1000

06-08-2005, 03:23 PM

Better transition game - Spurs
Better penetrators - Spurs
Better passing game - Spurs
Better low post scorer - Spurs
Better long range shooters - Pistons
Better mid-range game - Pistons
Better running screens - Pistons
Half Court Offense-Equal
On defense
Transition defense - Spurs
Stopping penetration - Pistons
Forcing Turnovers Spurs
Low post Defense - Equal
Defense Against 3's Equal
Defense against Mid-Range-Pistons
Shut down Player- Spurs
half court Defense - Pistons

whottt

06-08-2005, 03:32 PM

Pistons are better long distance shooting

Maybe. But it's not a huge advantage for them...technically Brent Barry and Bruce Bowen are the best long distance shooters in this series...And Big Dogg was the best jumpshooter in the NBA(and one of the best ever) prior to last season.

and half court defense.

Not a chance in hell. Theirs is an imitation of ours...

I like the Horry, Duncan, Rasho and Nazr combo better than Wallace squared with Elden and Dice.

The big guy that scares me the most on offense from the Pistons is Dice...he has been a Spur killer in the past. I am not worried about either of the Wallaces and I actually hope Elden Campbell gets a lot of minutes in this series...

admack

06-08-2005, 03:34 PM

mavsfan1000

06-08-2005, 03:39 PM

.technically Brent Barry and Bruce Bowen are the best long distance shooters in this series...And Big Dogg was the best jumpshooter in the NBA(and one of the best ever) prior to last season.
They don't play enough minutes to be considered a great 3 point team

I like the Horry, Duncan, Rasho and Nazr combo better than Wallace squared with Elden and Dice.
Duncan is the strong part of that half court defense but Nazr or Horry aren't close. The athletic back court is what makes it tough especially trying to run against them.

The big guy that scares me the most on offense from the Pistons is Dice...he has been a Spur killer in the past. I am not worried about either of the Wallaces and I actually hope Elden Campbell gets a lot of minutes in this series...
Billups and Hamilton are their main scorers.

picnroll

06-08-2005, 03:45 PM

Better long range shooters - Pistons

You might want to check your facts on that. Billups is the ONLY Piston who shot above .350 from three. Spurs had five, count them five shooting above .350 including a Barry subpar .357 for the season but more characteristic .440 playoffs. And in the playoffs Spurs have turned it up with four shooting +.400.

Hamilton is a relatively crappy .305 three point shooter. Wouldn't be surprised at some point in games if the Spurs pack it in and let the Pistons try their luck from the top of the key. Those long rebounds would come in handy getting the break going.

whottt

06-08-2005, 03:46 PM

The reason the Piston fans are tentative toward Barry is because that is a shot he can make with Prince flying at him. The defense is set up to handle the first and second option, leaving a desparation three at the end of the shot-clock with the aforementioned Prince doing his thing.
Brent can hit that shot, we know, hence timid.

Back2Back before
so
Back2Back again

Well I hope you are wrong...because Barry won't shoot it with a guy flying at him unless it's late in the game. He'll pass it, that's why he's shot at such a high PCT in his career, and I actually don't think he's that good at shooting with a guy running at him, that's why he doesn't shoot it unless he has too. He can shoot with a guy standing him up...but there is something about a guy running at him that he doesn't like...he doesn't consider that an open shot...even if they aren't really that close to him.

Barry will kill you if you leave him open or don't move at him the instant he gets the ball...but if you honor his shot he's not going to kill you, he probably won't even shoot...

That's a good dynamic for the Spurs when he is running it into a double on Duncan(and getting the kick out with regularity), and frustating one when he isn't.

Since I don't expect the Pistons to double team Duncan in this series, Barry is probably going to be the least of your worries unless he is getting PT in the final minutes of the game(a rarity). My advice: do not double Duncan off of Barry and don't dare him to shoot, you can make his shooting a non factor that way. That's what most teams have done and that's why so many Spurs fans hate Barry.

mavsfan1000

06-08-2005, 03:47 PM

Alot of teams force the spurs to shoot 3 pointers because of their penetration abilities. Those 3's are wide open so you should be making them.

whottt

06-08-2005, 03:50 PM

Alot of teams force the spurs to shoot 3 pointers because of their penetration abilities. Those 3's are wide open so you should be making them.

Believe it or not the Spurs do not pass it out of paint penetration that often...that has been the strength of this team in previous seasons but it has been a weakness this season. We'd probably have lead the NBA in 3 PCT if we did it more often. That's probably my major area of worry VS the Pistons. Manu, Parker and even Duncan do get kind of prone to forcing it and tunnelvision...it hurt us against the Sonics until we got it straightened out in the final games.

bdubya

06-08-2005, 04:31 PM

But there should be absolutely no argument on who has the superior depth and talent IMO. .....(snip)

......The only way the Spurs lose is if they beat themselves.

But of course you know there WILL be argument. I'll give you the bench depth, but I believe the Pistons have a slightly more talented core. I'll give the Spurs a slight edge in the backcourt for their creativity, and PF I'd give to Duncan (not for "talent", but for his totally superior consistency). Small forward is going to be a great matchup to watch, but I like Tayshaun overall. As for center? Well, us Pistons fans know that Ben actually walks on water as a hobby on his days off, so don't even bother arguing that one ;-). With sixth man Dice against....(hey, who IS your sixth man these days? Horry? Brent? Rasho? ) Whoever, in spite of Dice's lack of Finals experience, I'd take him over your first two bigs off the bench.

As for "the only way the Spurs lose"...spare me. Is that going to be your line if the Spurs don't pull it off? "We didn't get beat, we beat ourselves. In the Finals, the most important series there is, we just sorta choked." Do you think that would be somehow less embarrassing than admitting that you got beat? Weird...

whottt

06-08-2005, 04:42 PM

No, choking is the absolute worst thing you can do...it's excusable to not win a title when you aren't the best team...it's inexcusable when you are...

I wasn't making "excuses" for my team should they lose...I was saying they have absolutely "no excuses" for not winning this series...IMO the Pistons do.

The Spurs not winning will be a greater failure than the Pistons...

I don't know about you, but I would rather lose because I wasn't good enough than lose because I beat myself...so there was nothing in that statement to benefit my team. I was being honest.

And the Spurs pulling a choke certainly isn't out of the realm of possibility...

This team has choked before...

But then again, they also haven't choked before ;)

Willinsa

06-08-2005, 04:46 PM

Who gives a crap about what Porter has too say, he sucked as a Spur and
he sucks as a coach.

whottt

06-08-2005, 04:53 PM

BTW...

The only starter of yours I take over mine for certain is Ben Wallace over Nazr...Prince over Bowen is not a given...obviously Bowen isn't here for his scoring.

The only bench player I take over his Spurs counterpart is Arroyo over Beno...and Beno may certainly change my mind...he is a rookie after all.

As for Horry VS Dice...for this season, this series?

Robert Fucking Horry and I can't even believe you are serious about debating that point...Horry all the way. I love Dice...but Horry is Horry, stats be damned.

Put it this way...Horry presents the biggest problem for you guys in this series...let me tell you why...

Sheed is your best Duncan defender...Wallce Anchors your D...You guys are built around a twin tower concept similar to the Spurs...the difference is that the Spurs have grown very adept at small ball and are not totally built around the concept of twin towers D...

When Horry is in the game and hanging out at the 3...

Who do you guys put on him?

Sheed your best Duncan defender?

Or Wallace, the anchor of your D?

Either way it's going to put pressure you guys haven't seen yet on your D...

If you put Sheed on him Duncan will own Wallace.

If you put Wallace on him you lose the heart of your D and Manu and Parker will rip your inside to shreds...

Think about it.

bdubya

06-08-2005, 04:59 PM

whottt

06-08-2005, 05:13 PM

I'm not underestimating the Pistons...

I know for a fact the Spurs are more talented though. They are. I don't see how that part is arguable.

Whether or not the Spurs have as much or more heart, or if Pop is a better coach than Brown...those things are definitely up for debate...To say the Pistons have the talent, depth or versatility is just plain ole homerism on your part.

I think you just want to argue...what ever it is that I criticize about the Pistons you will take as the ulitamate slight and defend...even when it isn't....it's either that or you think the Pistons are superior in every way shape or form...either way it's homerism. Right now I see you arguing the unarguable...that your team is close in talent to the Spurs...it isn't. Your best player is considered elite for what he does on one side of the ball...Defense...

Our best player is known for his block scoring ability...yet he's the only guy in NBA history to make first team All NBA Defense his first 8 years in the NBA.

You guys got the shorthand on talent and depth in this series...it's inarguable.

Look at who had the better record...look at the the All Stars(including the reseves who are decided by the coaches)...or, if you like, look at the members of the defensive teams voted on by coaches...How many guys do you have on your bench that could start for a good NBA playoff team? None. The Spurs have at least two. And I'd say it's actually 3 since Horry is and has been a defacto starter his entire career...a career in which he's won 5 rings.

None of this mean the Spurs will win and the Pistons will lose...IMO it only means the Spurs should win and the Pistons should lose...that in no way means that it will happen.

bdubya

06-08-2005, 05:38 PM

To say the Pistons have the talent, depth or versatility is just plain ole homerism on your part.

And for me to grant the point on depth right off the bat, and then read a line like this, is just plain ole comic relief - thanks (chuckle). Look, I believe the Pistons are fully capable of beating the Spurs in this series. Not just of being the guys on-site when the Spurs inexplicably choose to melt down, but of BEATING THEM. If that makes me a "homer", hey, excuse my failure to genuflect at the Spurs' feet.....

Personally, I don't see how you "choke" away a BEST OF SEVEN SERIES. A game, sure, but a whole series? You can lose due to injuries, some would say you can get screwed by the refs, but if you "choke" an entire SERIES, I think that's a strong indication that either you're not as good as you thought, or that the other team is BETTER.

btw - for your Horry scenario, depends who else is in. Assuming TD & Bowen, I'd put Sheed on him and trust Ben on TD for a few possessions. Maybe he'll get lucky and TD will inexplicably "choke"....

picnroll

06-08-2005, 05:59 PM

Every game I've seen Ben on TD, TD has owned Ben. I would love that matchup. Better chance with Campbell or even McDyess.

whottt

06-08-2005, 06:07 PM

And for me to grant the point on depth right off the bat, and then read a line like this, is just plain ole comic relief - thanks (chuckle). Look, I believe the Pistons are fully capable of beating the Spurs in this series. Not just of being the guys on-site when the Spurs inexplicably choose to melt down, but of BEATING THEM. If that makes me a "homer", hey, excuse my failure to genuflect at the Spurs' feet.....

LMAO, who is expecting you to genuflect anything? I am just expecting you to be honest about what the teams' strengths and weaknesses are....I pointed out the coaches putting Spurs players on all NBA teams...and pointed out guys who were starters for playoff teams not too long ago on our bench.

Obviously I expect too much...I seem to have no problem not questioning the heart of your team while casting doubt on that of my own...what I will not do is concede the talent and depth point because it blatantly favors the Spurs...And I backed up that point well if you ask me...I mean what else do you want me to do to prove it?

Put it this way...we lost Duncan for 15 games, Manu for 8, Rasho for quite a few as well, and we still put up a better record than you guys, in a conference that had more 50+ win teams in it, INCLUDING the team with the best record in the NBA in it...

The regular season is all about talent...it's not like I am saying you guys are the Bobcats or something...But the Spurs have a signifigant edge in talent and depth in this series...it's the one edge they definitely have.

You have absolutely nothing but 3 DPOY awards for a single player to rebuff that point...

Personally, I don't see how you "choke" away a BEST OF SEVEN SERIES. A game, sure, but a whole series? You can lose due to injuries, some would say you can get screwed by the refs, but if you "choke" an entire SERIES, I think that's a strong indication that either you're not as good as you thought, or that the other team is BETTER.

I'd agree with that point about the better team winning, if you choke you aren't the better team.....what it isn't an idication of is talent...we're talking talent, not better. The Spurs edge is in talent.

And it depends on how many OPEN SHOTS you miss...I don't think you watched any of the Spurs Lakers playoff series in the last few years...if you had, you'd know it is very possible to choke in every 4th quarter of nearly every game of a 7 games series(which seldom go 7)...

You'd know it's possible for a guy to be left WIDE THE FUCK OPEN while one or two of his teamates are drawing double teams, and miss OPEN shots that he made at a 40% clip during the regular season while he was being defended strongly.

btw - for your Horry scenario, depends who else is in. Assuming TD & Bowen, I'd put Sheed on him and trust Ben on TD for a few possessions. Maybe he'll get lucky and TD will inexplicably "choke"....

I'd do that too...but you must realize that is what the Spurs want to happen.

We also want Rasheed out on the 3 point line on offense, and defense...something I think Rasheed will be willing to accomodate...

We also want Horry out at the 3 point line on offense and will be happy to see him out there on D as well if he's guarding Rasheed.

Where do you guys want Rasheed? Where do you think he'll end up being?

Horry is a starter on this team...he just doesn't start.

The Spurs versatility is going to take you out of your normal schemes...You guys will not be able to do that with us...maybe you could do it a little with Sheed and Prince...but that's it. If the Spurs do as I hope and put Bruce on Prince...you won't be able to use Prince to take us out of our schemes.

We know what you guys are going to throw at us...it's guard oriented half court offense and strong interior D...arguably the best half court team in the NBA....but we are close to your match in the half court O, your equal in D...and lurking under the surface of our stodgy defensive image, is what I believe to be the best rotation of transition guards in the NBA...

The Spurs talent and depth is going to be able to throw challenges at you that you will not be able to throw at us...because of talent...that doesn't mean we win..it only means we should.

I really don't understand your abrasiveness over accepting the truth on this..

I personally like the underdog role better than the heavy favorite, the pressure, and the expectation, is on the Spurs...I think you will find that to be the majority sentiment...and it's because of their edge in talent and depth.

beirmeistr

06-08-2005, 07:25 PM

Who gives a crap about what Porter has too say, he sucked as a Spur and
he sucks as a coach.
Amen to that. He's no mental giant.

milkyway21

06-08-2005, 10:01 PM

"I think Rasheed is one of those guys when he is asked to be the man night in and night out, he's going to have a difficult time doing it. But in Detroit, it's not on him every night. But it's been proven that when he plays the way he played in Game 7 (against Miami), that team can't be beaten."he's right about this guys. Rasheed had 20 pts against Miami in game7.

But, what IF he'll just contribute 2 pts(game5?) or 13 pts(game6?), again?

everyone is entitled to his opinion. though i am picking the Spurs to win this one bec they dominated against Detroit(game2 in Detroit, Duncan got injured), this season.

Tek_XX

06-08-2005, 10:44 PM

The Spurs have another go to guy other than tim now as compared to when Porter was here. We don't have to rely on tim as much as we used to.

JamStone

06-08-2005, 10:44 PM

Ball Don't Lie

06-08-2005, 11:52 PM

Maybe. But it's not a huge advantage for them...technically Brent Barry and Bruce Bowen are the best long distance shooters in this series...And Big Dogg was the best jumpshooter in the NBA(and one of the best ever) prior to last season.

Not a chance in hell. Theirs is an imitation of ours...

I like the Horry, Duncan, Rasho and Nazr combo better than Wallace squared with Elden and Dice.

The big guy that scares me the most on offense from the Pistons is Dice...he has been a Spur killer in the past. I am not worried about either of the Wallaces and I actually hope Elden Campbell gets a lot of minutes in this series...

Our "imitation" of your defense stopped the Lakers dead in their tracks last year. Funny how the Spurs obviously superior D couldn't do the same...

Also, it is amusing how the Spurs get 3 teams that play no defense in the first 3 rounds, and all of a sudden you guys think that you are an offensive juggernaut. News flash: Over the 82-game season the Spurs averaged 96 PPG and the Pistons averaged 93. Couple that with the fact that we played in the lower scoring East and I would say there is no advantage either way as far as offense is concerned.

Ball Don't Lie

06-09-2005, 12:07 AM

cqsallie

06-09-2005, 12:22 AM

Personally, I don't see how you "choke" away a BEST OF SEVEN SERIES. A game, sure, but a whole series?
Well, the truth is, that neither team is going to choke. I cheered on the Pistons last year - not just because I was cheering against the Lakers. I really love the Pistons, but when push comes to shove - as it will - the Spurs are by far the better team.
I say Spurs in 6. Why? Because they hate to lose and if they lose one game, they'll come back with a vengeance the next. Over all, I pick the Spurs because all of them are better than all of the Pistons. This isn't going to be a starting 5 contest; this is going to be a whole team contest, and when you consider that, the Spurs are the much better Whole Team! :elephant

Ball Don't Lie

06-09-2005, 12:30 AM

Well, the truth is, that neither team is going to choke. I cheered on the Pistons last year - not just because I was cheering against the Lakers. I really love the Pistons, but when push comes to shove - as it will - the Spurs are by far the better team.
I say Spurs in 6. Why? Because they hate to lose and if they lose one game, they'll come back with a vengeance the next. Over all, I pick the Spurs because all of them are better than all of the Pistons. This isn't going to be a starting 5 contest; this is going to be a whole team contest, and when you consider that, the Spurs are the much better Whole Team! :elephant

:lol

Honestly - does it really get any dumber than this?

cqsallie

06-09-2005, 12:32 AM

You guys definately have the best player. But any objective person would take anyone in our starting five over Bowen or Mohammed. So you guys are top heavy, and we are balanced. If you really believe that there is unquestionably a talent difference, you are delusional. But this might just be the case considering the fact that you think Robert Horry could be a starter on a playoff team. :lol
You are just so silly! :blah
The Spurs aren't top-heavy in the least. We are the most balanced team in the NBA - and the most talented - and the most integrated.
The Spurs can literally clear the bench and there won't be a dip in performance. I don't know where you're getting your information, but the word is that the Spurs have the deepest bench in the league. And yes, Horry should probably start because nobody is hungrier and more alive when the ring is on the line that Big Shot Rob. I'd hang my hopes on him any day of the week - but mostly on a day when the championship was on the line.
Bring it on, Pistons! I may love you personally and I may have been your greatest fan when you were battling for the Eastern Conference title, but reality bites: You are now facing my Spurs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :smokin

Sense

06-09-2005, 12:48 AM

I have perused this messageboard for months now, but haven't posted a response until tonight, on this eve of this very special NBA Finals. Now, I will admit that I did not read this entire thread, but I do wish to address a few things.

Spurs fans are supremely confident that their team is better than the Pistons. And, they are very well justified in thinking so. The Spurs team is excellent. They have two great go-to, prime time players in TD and Manu. They have a lightning quick point guard, steady role players, and plenty of depth. Coming from a Pistons fan, the Spurs are an absolutely amazing team.

HOWEVER, for those of you Spurs fans who haven't been able to watch a lot of Detroit games this season until some of the playoff games on TNT, there are some things that have become misconceptions about this Detroit team. They have been somewhat addressed in this thread, so I'd like to clarify:

1. "The Detroit offense is not good, and sometimes anemic." While admittingly the Pistons have had had scoring problems at times, one must understand that EVERY NBA team will have it's problems scoring from time to time. The Detroit offense is actually very well balanced. In these playoffs, all five starters have led the team in scoring at least one game. When the Pistons play the way they are capable of playing, they share the ball and they will have 5 or 6 players in double digits, but only one or two that have 20+ points.

2. "The Spurs will be able to sag off of Ben Wallace and double off of him." Philadelphia tried that and Ben Wallace scored 29 points. Indiana didn't learn from that and Ben Wallace had a 21 point game. He even can make a 15 foot jumper from time to time. Ben is certainly not a consistent offensive option, but he is not the liability he used to be.

3. "Since Rasheed is the Pistons' best post player and likes to take jumpshots, the Pistons will have problems scoring inside." While Rasheed has the skill to be the Pistons' best post player, Chauncey Billups and Tayshaun Prince are actually the most effective post up players and will take advantage of mismatches.

4. "The Spurs have a huge advantage over the Pistons with respect to the benches." While the Spurs definitely have more depth and absolutely have a better bench, the bench play and production will only be a major factor if the Pistons get in foul trouble or have an injury to one of its seven main rotation players. Supposedly, the Miami Heat had a clear advantage in that area as well, but if you look at the statistics, Miami's bench played more minutes, but the Pistons bench had nearly the same production. The Piston starters all play 35-42 minutes per game, and Tayshaun and Rip sometimes play nearly the whole game. That's where the conditioning comes in. San Antonio uses its bench more, and therefore, the production is that much more important. But, the bench is not nearly the factor some people think it is, UNLESS foul trouble or injury come into play.

ANYWAY, those are just a couple of points. Some of you Spurs fans may have watched a lot of Pistons games. But, perhaps some of you haven't and have this misconception about the Pistons from what the media and especially what ESPN and TNT analysts seem to say. There is some merit to what they say. But, don't believe everything you've heard.

The Spurs are the best team in the league. But, the Pistons will give them all they have and I think it will be an exciting series. Of course, I think the Pistons will win, and I hope the Pistons win, but we'll just have to wait to see.

I couldn't disrespect the Spurs like some Spurs fans do the Pistons. Just making it to the NBA Finals says a lot about both teams.

You are only one of the 2 detroit pistons so far that hasn't gone balls to the walls saying

" THE DETROIT PISTONS ARE GONNA BEAT THE SPURS AND WE WILL REPEAT"...

This forum has always predicted series... I really don't know what you expect the spurs fans to say about the pistons... most of us do think they are the toughest team in the NBA, but tell your "detroit pistons fans" that trolling won't help.

Obviously when you come to this forum most of us expect to talk solely about the Spurs, because we are spurs fans..but to think that most of you guys think you are gonna sweep is completely insane.. I know, It's what we think, but you do know why... The Spurs were favorites last year, and they were this year too.. for a reason.

The Spurs have been one of the most dangerous teams in the NBA since Tim Duncan was drafted, for you to think that the Pistons are gonna win easily with Tim in there, and in the finals is just not right. Last year, perhaps you might say that the Lakers were the better team when they beat the Spurs...but do you really think so?

I really doubt it, I'm sure all of you thought the series was over when we were up 2-0...so yeah, I'll go on and say they choked, too bad.

I just want to point out that I think that you didn't face the best team, then again they beat us...so it's time to show it this time..

I just can't wait for the series to start and you shouldn't either.. but you should remember we have the right to underestimate other teams when we've beaten them before...most people see it as a rivalry, personally I don't.

I couldn't Imagine a better team to play in the finals..and I wanted that last year aswell.

Why don't we just keep the " OMG WE ARE GONNA BEAT YOUR TEAM" comments to a minimum... while the series are in play.

cqsallie

06-09-2005, 12:57 AM

:lol

Honestly - does it really get any dumber than this?
Ya know what? I'm thinking that you may be one of the Piston fans I blogged with last year. I know how you feel. You beat the WC Lakers! With Shaq, Kobe and Phil still speaking to one another and playing as a team...
This time around you beat the Miami Heat, with Shaq claiming a deep-thigh injury and Dwayne Wade talking about a stabbing pain in his rib-section. This is one reason I wanted the Pistons to beat the Heat. If you had lost the series and the Spurs had been forced to play this sorry, hurting team, we would have forever had to hear about how the Heat would have won if both Shaq and Dwayne had been playing at 100%. You guys took the whine on this one.
So, here you come, facing a totally healthy Spurs team of 12 players who could be starters on any team in the NBA. I'm really sorry, but as much as I admire your team, I don't think the Wallaces, Hamilton, Prince, etc. are gonna get it done.
Once again, Spurs in 6! :elephant

whottt

06-09-2005, 01:17 AM

Our "imitation" of your defense stopped the Lakers dead in their tracks last year. Funny how the Spurs obviously superior D couldn't do the same...

Our "original" defense won an NBA championshiop 2 years ago...you remember 2 years ago...that's when you guys got swept by the team we beat in the finals.

And you guys didn't stop LA...Kobe did. Ben Wallace didn't come fucking close to stopping Shaq....Kobe did.

BTW our offense was why we lost that series....and Kobe's D on Shaq wasn't near as good.

I was as happy to see you guys win as anyone...it's sad that it's totally gone to your head to the point that you didn't notice the Lakers not having any semblance of a PF when Malone wasn't playing, that their two stars were ripping each other all season, and that one of them was holding the franchise hostage.

I'll spell it out for the less observant among us...that team was highly combustible and had tremendous chemistry issues...take note what happened to them this past offseason. And no, it wasn't because you guys beat them, it was going to happen anyway.

Also, it is amusing how the Spurs get 3 teams that play no defense in the first 3 rounds, and all of a sudden you guys think that you are an offensive juggernaut. News flash: Over the 82-game season the Spurs averaged 96 PPG and the Pistons averaged 93.

Um...the Spurs scored the most points in a game this season in the entire NBA..and they did it with Duncan and Manu both not playing.

Um...you guys haven't exactly been playing defensive juggernauts...the fucking Sixers give up more points than they score. Indy was not the same team defensively as they were last year...not having the reigning DPOY might have had something to do with it.

And the fact that you guys keep saying the Heat play great D makes me question your basketball acumen. Their D consists of them shooting 50% from the field nearly every game limiting o boards and turnovers that benefit their opponents.

Couple that with the fact that we played in the lower scoring East

Let me fix that for you...you played in the shittier East...that's where you played. 54 wins gets you the second best record in East. Last year 49 wins got you the second best record..that was the Nuggets record this season....it doesn't even gurantee you HCA in the first round in the West. 45 wins gurantees you HCA in the East...

You play in the shittier East...say it like it is...having two good teams does not carry over to the entire conference.

and I would say there is no advantage either way as far as offense is concerned.

And you would be wrong about that...Let's just say for the sake of argument that Billups and Hamilton are better than Manu and Tony...They are still close....Parker got the votes of more than one coach to be the in the All Star Game..Manu made the All Star Game because of the coaches...they both scored 16 PPG...just slightly less than your Champion guard combo...with Duncan getting the most shots on this team...and the did it shooting at a higher PCT.

OTOH...You guys got absolutely squat that can score on the block like Duncan...

Just remember, we played the last 10-15 games of the season without Tim Duncan, without Rasho...and still finished with the second best record in the entire NBA, still outscored you guys on the season...still put up the most points scored in an NBA game this season.

And in fact...we still went into Detroit and dropped a 100 points on you guys during your hottest stretch of the season...

leemajors

06-09-2005, 01:29 AM

nice post jamstone, can't wait for this series to actually start. i wish the gap between games for us was a little less, long waits make any team's fans antsy as hell!

Ball Don't Lie

06-09-2005, 01:31 AM

Our "original" defense won an NBA championshiop 2 years ago...you remember 2 years ago...that's when you guys got swept by the team we beat in the finals.

And you guys didn't stop LA...Kobe did. Ben Wallace didn't come fucking close to stopping Shaq....Kobe did.

BTW our offense was why we lost that series....and Kobe's D on Shaq wasn't near as good.

This is actually the first time I've seen this excuse. Very creative! I guess I never considered the idea that Kobe threw the series. Silly me.

And in fact...we still went into Detroit and dropped a 100 points on you guys during your hottest stretch of the season...

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol .....And we scored 110. I thought our offense was mediocre and your defense was invincible?

whottt

06-09-2005, 01:33 AM

You live in some sort of alternate universe. Please tell me which of your bench players starts on a good playoff team. Name the player and the team he would start for.

That should be good/playoff team...

Rasho has started for a playoff team every year since about 1999...he started for us last year.

Nazr started for a playoff team last year. Come to think of it...he's starting for a playoff team this year.

Barry started for a playoff team 3 years ago...and the record of his team last season when he was a starter, would have made them an elite playoff team in the "lower scoring" East ;).

On top of that he started quite a few games of for us in the playoff and this season..and we are nearly undefeated when he does so.

To keep driving this point home...because I can...

Robert Horry has been a defacto starter on 5 NBA champions, and is a defacto starter on this years team...

And then there's Glenn Robinson...you guys can say he's done all you want but his deline had nothing to do with his shooting and everything to do with personal problems...He was an All Star just 3 years ago and he could start for us right now if he were more familiar with the team.

PS - you won't be able to do this because your claim is full of shit.

Apologize for saying I am full of shit...at the very least Rasho and Nazr prove my point....and I gave you 4 guys that could do it.

There is no disparity in talent. You guys definately have the best player. But any objective person would take anyone in our starting five over Bowen or Mohammed.

I pretty much agree with that, in fact I said I would...Well Bruce is different and it's not the cut and dried case you make it out to be...that's like saying it's a no brainer to take Yao over Ben Wallace because he's a better scorer...I don't know about you...but I wouldn't do that...don't be so quick to cast Bruce aside...there are guys on this team that have better stats than Bruce does...they aint starting ahead of him though...and there is a reason for it.

So you guys are top heavy, and we are balanced. If you really believe that there is unquestionably a talent difference, you are delusional. But this might just be the case considering the fact that you think Robert Horry could be a starter on a playoff team. :lol

Robert Horry is the starter on THIS TEAM...he just doesn't start.

You know why Robert Horry didn't start during the Lakers 3 peat? He didn't want to. He doesn't want to start on this team.

But go ahead and under-rate Horry, all you show is your inexperience as a basketball fan...if LA had him last year you guys wouldn't have beaten them because he'd have stuck his foot up Shaq and Kobe's ass for being concerned with shit other than winning, and he's not a perennial choker like Malone.

cqsallie

06-09-2005, 01:36 AM

Just remember, we played the last 10-15 games of the season without Tim Duncan, without Rasho...and still finished with the second best record in the entire NBA, still outscored you guys on the season...still put up the most points scored in an NBA game this season.

And in fact...we still went into Detroit and dropped a 100 points on you guys during your hottest stretch of the season...
Ooohh! I'm thinking, "Amen," or "Love It," or "Wish I'd Said It," or "Dammit, Whott - you absolutely rule! And I mean it!" :smokin

T Park

06-09-2005, 01:39 AM

keep underrating Robert Horry.

I hope he comes out like 01 like gangbusters and blows away the Pistons with the 3s.

Go ahead and stay at home with him too.

Duncan will eat up "Big Ben".

leemajors

06-09-2005, 01:39 AM

Ball Don't Lie, he obviously meant we scored 100 without duncan. that in itself is pretty impressive. we were right in the game till the end without our best player. i think he could have helped us out on the defensive end, don't you?

whottt

06-09-2005, 01:47 AM

This is actually the first time I've seen this excuse. Very creative! I guess I never considered the idea that Kobe threw the series. Silly me.

It's called myopia...

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol .....And we scored 110. I thought our offense was mediocre and your defense was invincible?

Pistons fans must think they have a divine right to the other teams best player being injured...and that it has something to do with the greatness of their team...

whottt

06-09-2005, 01:52 AM

Pistons fans...the funniest thing about this argument is that you guys are getting your ass kicked by a Spursfan who picked the Pistons to win this series...Your arguments suck...because you are trying to portray your team as the greatest ever built..it isn't.

The best argument you guys have in your favor is that you are the champs and we haven't proven shit...instead you try to argue against cold hard reality...the Spurs are undeniably the more talented and deeper team...and you embarrass yourself by arguing against that point. The Spurs being more talented in no way gurantess victory...

The Suns have the most talent in the entire NBA, just on the basis of their starters...it didn't do them any good...stop being insecure about your team...it's a great fucking team...but it's not the most talented team in this series. What it is is the defending champ...and that's the absolute best fucking edge to have.

cqsallie

06-09-2005, 01:53 AM

It's called myopia...
Myopia being the medical term for short-sigtedness...
:lol

Pistons fans must think they have a divine right to the other teams best player being injured...and that it has something to do with the greatness of their team...
What's gonna happen when a very healthy Spurs team takes the floor? :smokin

mavsfan1000

06-09-2005, 02:04 AM

I really like both teams so it is hard to pick between Detroit and San Antonio. I like Billups and Hamilton on Detroit and Ginobili and Duncan on San Antonio. Whoever wins this series gets my respect. I doubt Terry Porter knows who is going to win so San Antonio is still the favorite.

DisgruntledLionFan#54,927

06-09-2005, 02:08 AM

It's called myopia...

Pistons fans must think they have a divine right to the other teams best player being injured...and that it has something to do with the greatness of their team...

Dirk Nowitzki anyone? My how soon we forget... :spin

The real gist of my post is above where you said Indy and Miami were not strong defensive teams. PPG, FG% allowed, def rebounding % are all categories that good defensive teams rank highly in, which these two teams did. So I ask you, what else would you use to quantify how good a team is defensively?

Don't good defensive teams rebound well and limit their TOs, which leads to less fast break opportunities?

mavsfan1000

06-09-2005, 02:18 AM

Dirk Nowitzki anyone? My how soon we forget... :spin

The real gist of my post is above where you said Indy and Miami were not strong defensive teams. PPG, FG% allowed, def rebounding % are all categories that good defensive teams rank highly in, which these two teams did. So I ask you, what else would you use to quantify how good a team is defensively?

Don't good defensive teams rebound well and limit their TOs, which leads to less fast break opportunities?
I saw some weaknesses in Detroit on transition defense. San Antonio's guards are quicker. Duncan is their man but Detroit has 2 defensive players in the Wallaces. Bruce Bowen will have trouble with Hamilton but it will save Ginobili and Parker's energy on the offensive end not to guard Rip.

whottt

06-09-2005, 02:25 AM

Dirk Nowitzki anyone? My how soon we forget... :spin

What's your point?

The real gist of my post is above where you said Indy and Miami were not strong defensive teams. PPG, FG% allowed, def rebounding % are all categories that good defensive teams rank highly in, which these two teams did.

Indy is a good defensive team...but they weren't as good this year as they were last year...note the fact that they won 25 or so fewer games than they did last year..

Miami is not a good defensive team...they are the most effiicient offense in the NBA but Shaq is a defensive liability...why do you think the Heat signed Mourning to close out games?

So I ask you, what else would you use to quantify how good a team is defensively?

The same things you would more or less...

But I don't really see where this argument became an argument about how good of defensive teams the Heat and Pacers are...

I don't think either one of them was a good as Denver...I don't think either one of them are as physical as Seattle was...and I damn sure don't think either one of them deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as the Spurs or Pistons based on anything they did this season...

Don't good defensive teams rebound well and limit their TOs, which leads to less fast break opportunities?

That also describes the Dallas Mavericks of the last 3 years...

You tell me if that's all there is to it.

cqsallie

06-09-2005, 02:41 AM

And still, it comes down to the fact that the Pistons probably would NOT have beaten Miami if the Heat had been playing with a healthy Wade and O'Neal. As good as the Pistons are defensively, it really came down to the 4th quarter - with Wade being totally ineffective.
Much can be argued about the Eastern Conference Championship - and you can bet your boots that much will be argued about that series. It just didn't sear the victory in anyone's mind as one based on the superior play of the Pistons vis-a-vis the Heat. It's almost an astericks series, with a whole lot of "what ifs."
A totally healthy team playing a totally healthy team is really the test. That's why I'm cautioning Detroit fans against presuming brilliance, when the win came against a foe that was pretty much vanquished before it started.
I'm looking forward to a healthy Pistons team going up against a healthy Spurs team. I think you might be very much surprised...

Ball Don't Lie

06-09-2005, 04:01 AM

You are only one of the 2 detroit pistons so far that hasn't gone balls to the walls saying

" THE DETROIT PISTONS ARE GONNA BEAT THE SPURS AND WE WILL REPEAT"...

This forum has always predicted series... I really don't know what you expect the spurs fans to say about the pistons... most of us do think they are the toughest team in the NBA, but tell your "detroit pistons fans" that trolling won't help.

Obviously when you come to this forum most of us expect to talk solely about the Spurs, because we are spurs fans..but to think that most of you guys think you are gonna sweep is completely insane.. I know, It's what we think, but you do know why... The Spurs were favorites last year, and they were this year too.. for a reason.

The Spurs have been one of the most dangerous teams in the NBA since Tim Duncan was drafted, for you to think that the Pistons are gonna win easily with Tim in there, and in the finals is just not right. Last year, perhaps you might say that the Lakers were the better team when they beat the Spurs...but do you really think so?

I really doubt it, I'm sure all of you thought the series was over when we were up 2-0...so yeah, I'll go on and say they choked, too bad.

I just want to point out that I think that you didn't face the best team, then again they beat us...so it's time to show it this time..

I just can't wait for the series to start and you shouldn't either.. but you should remember we have the right to underestimate other teams when we've beaten them before...most people see it as a rivalry, personally I don't.

I couldn't Imagine a better team to play in the finals..and I wanted that last year aswell.

Why don't we just keep the " OMG WE ARE GONNA BEAT YOUR TEAM" comments to a minimum... while the series are in play.

I don't know what board you are talking about, but most of the Pistons fans (including myself) are just looking for your fans to admit that the Pistons are a worthy foe and will present a challenge to the almighty Spurs. If you go over to the Detroit board you see very few posts about how the Spurs don't deserve to be here, their championship is a fluke, this finals berth is a fluke, etc. Posts saying these things about Detroit are very common here. The last two teams SA beat in the playoffs were hurt very badly by injuries, but not once have I seen a post by a Detroit fan saying that SA's Finals berth is a fluke. And I think Detroit fans have a much more valid argument then you guys do in that department because of the fact that the Spurs choked in the second round last year when challenged by a strong, healthy team.

Anyway, I checked out this board to see what you guys had to say about our team. To tell you the truth, I have NEVER made an account on an opponent's message board. I usually just lurk a bit and read the comments. But you guys were showing us so little respect that I felt the need to sign up for this board. In all honesty, the fans on this board are the biggest bunch of arrogant pricks I have seen - which is amazing considering that SA has spent the better part of the last 5 years being LA's bitch, and we wiped the floor with the Lakers.

Personally, I think the Pistons will win in 6. But I can see if you think otherwise - most people do. I just wish that your fans could be classy enough to admit that their opponent is indeed a worthy one. I, and most Piston fans, are very willing to admit that SA is a worthy challenger to our crown. I think it will be a great series, and I wish you guys luck. But I can honestly say that from this point on I will always root against San Antonio - and we haven't played Game 1 yet.

Sense

06-09-2005, 04:09 AM

I don't know what board you are talking about, but most of the Pistons fans (including myself) are just looking for your fans to admit that the Pistons are a worthy foe and will present a challenge to the almighty Spurs. If you go over to the Detroit board you see very few posts about how the Spurs don't deserve to be here, their championship is a fluke, this finals berth is a fluke, etc. The last two teams you beat in the playoffs were hurt very badly by injuries, but not once have I seen a post by a Detroit fan saying that SA's Finals berth is a fluke. And I think Detroit fans have a much more valid argument then you guys do in that department because of the fact that the Spurs choked in the second round last year when challenged by a strong, healthy team.

Anyway, I checked out this board to see what you guys had to say about our team. To tell you the truth, I have NEVER made an account on an opponent's message board. I usually just lurk a bit and read the comments. But you guys were showing us so little respect that I felt the need to sign up for this board. If that makes me a troll, then I guess I'm a troll.

Personally, I think the Pistons will win in 6. But I can see if you think otherwise - most people do. I just wish that your fans could be classy enough to admit that their opponent is indeed a worthy one. I, and most Piston fans, are very willing to admit that SA is a worthy challenger to our crown.

You know you are gonna find bandwagon fans in here...those people think the Pistons don't deserve to be in the finals... as for me? Well I predicted the Pistons being there...most of the Spurs fans predicted the same last year.

I don't doubt I will hear anyone in the detroit forums saying the Spurs don't deserve to be there...the only reason it's posted in here, is because you guys came here trying to say that we were gonna lose..plain and simple, normally when we don't have trolls, we just make smart predicaments about the other teams.. now since you guys are talking about the .4 shot, and the dirk injury n shit...that's when people get pissed about it and decide to go for a shot at you.

I also doubt that many people think the Spurs finals berth is a fluke, because the spurs have always deserved to be there, since duncan came in the league..they have always been a championship contender... there have just been some problems that I just don't want to discuss.

When you come to another teams forum, EXPECT THE WORST REMARKS FROM UR TEAM... someone should get that stuck in their head. Don't expect all the Spurs fans to think the pistons are gonna beat the Spurs.. because I surely don't believe this.

Mostly because of the Spurs big man, the homecourt advantage (which btw we have been very good with), and the fans.

Saying more predictions at this point will get more people onto you, and that's what got the pistons fans mad, so they decided to troll..

Ignore predictions, remember that these are opinions..and mostly these opinions are wished to come true.

Don't get offended by predictions and your team will get more respect... they have just not when you are here.

Ball Don't Lie

06-09-2005, 04:16 AM

You know you are gonna find bandwagon fans in here...those people think the Pistons don't deserve to be in the finals... as for me? Well I predicted the Pistons being there...most of the Spurs fans predicted the same last year.

I don't doubt I will hear anyone in the detroit forums saying the Spurs don't deserve to be there...the only reason it's posted in here, is because you guys came here trying to say that we were gonna lose..plain and simple, normally when we don't have trolls, we just make smart predicaments about the other teams.. now since you guys are talking about the .4 shot, and the dirk injury n shit...that's when people get pissed about it and decide to go for a shot at you.

I also doubt that many people think the Spurs finals berth is a fluke, because the spurs have always deserved to be there, since duncan came in the league..they have always been a championship contender... there have just been some problems that I just don't want to discuss.

When you come to another teams forum, EXPECT THE WORST REMARKS FROM UR TEAM... someone should get that stuck in their head. Don't expect all the Spurs fans to think the pistons are gonna beat the Spurs.. because I surely don't believe this.

Mostly because of the Spurs big man, the homecourt advantage (which btw we have been very good with), and the fans.

Saying more predictions at this point will get more people onto you, and that's what got the pistons fans mad, so they decided to troll..

Ignore predictions, remember that these are opinions..and mostly these opinions are wished to come true.

Don't get offended by predictions and your team will get more respect... they have just not when you are here.

I'm not retarded. I know that when I come on a Spurs board I will see a bunch of pro-spurs opinions. That's why I check out these boards. But instead of "Its going to be a great series, I think the Spurs will win in 6, and here's why..." this board has FAR more comments running with the idea that the Spurs are OBVIOUSLY the better team and can only possibly lose if the team plane crashes and they have to suit up the waterboy and 4 random fans. It's obnoxious and way off the mark. I would bet any amount of money that this series will go 6 games, as would any somewhat intelligent fan. For all the action on this board, it is amazing how many completely moronic people root for your team.

As a Pistons fan, I just wonder how many "more talented" teams we have to beat before people realize their analysis is way off?

whottt

06-09-2005, 04:40 AM

I'm not retarded. I know that when I come on a Spurs board I will see a bunch of pro-spurs opinions. That's why I check out these boards. But

followed by excuse for excessive defensiveness over the slightest legitimate criticism of team as if it's the worst criticism ever levied at a team and one levied in every single argument 1 billion times a day(and it probably is on any board other than a Pistons board)

You are typical internet opposing fan 101...

If doesn't matter what the criticism is...no matter what it is you wouldn't like it because what you really want to hear is that your team is the most perfect team ever assembled...

Why don't you prove objectivity...why don't you point out the weaknesses in your team for us...since we have the audacity to have a non homer view of the Pistons on a Spurs message board.

Tell you what...I'll tell you that you have the most talented team ever assembled and you can tell me that we have the clutchest team in NBA history...then we can both be happy with someone telling us an untruth that we desperately want to hear...

And you can beat 1 million more talented teams...it still isn't going to make you more talented...I can't figure out why you are worried about it so much as long as your team is the champ...

The Spurs probably aren't the most talented team in the NBA this year either...Phoenix or Denver probably are...

But the Spurs are definitely more talented than the Pistons...all it means is that we should win...not that we will.

Sense

06-09-2005, 08:55 AM

followed by excuse for excessive defensiveness over the slightest legitimate criticism of team as if it's the worst criticism ever levied at a team and one levied in every single argument 1 billion times a day(and it probably is on any board other than a Pistons board)

You are typical internet opposing fan 101...

If doesn't matter what the criticism is...no matter what it is you wouldn't like it because what you really want to hear is that your team is the most perfect team ever assembled...

Why don't you prove objectivity...why don't you point out the weaknesses in your team for us...since we have the audacity to have a non homer view of the Pistons on a Spurs message board.

Tell you what...I'll tell you that you have the most talented team ever assembled and you can tell me that we have the clutchest team in NBA history...then we can both be happy with someone telling us an untruth that we desperately want to hear...

And you can beat 1 million more talented teams...it still isn't going to make you more talented...I can't figure out why you are worried about it so much as long as your team is the champ...

The Spurs probably aren't the most talented team in the NBA this year either...Phoenix or Denver probably are...

But the Spurs are definitely more talented than the Pistons...all it means is that we should win...not that we will.

I'm wondering why he used to start alot basketball arguments... apparently...mostly everything you claim and talk about when it comes to basketball comes very related to what I would normaly say.

Supergirl

06-09-2005, 10:51 AM

If the Pistons don't double team Tim, they'll be massacred. Rasheed is a good defender and plays Tim tough, but Tim will take it right at him if they don't double team.

Pistons won't be able to stop Manu and Tony 60% of the time, and that'll be good enough to win.

Once Rip is taken out of the series (Bowen) and Wallace is limited by Duncan to 15 pts a game, if even that, all the Pistons have left is a few dunks by Wallace and a few last minute clutch plays by Billups. THat's good for 1, maybe 2 wins. Not a series.

Spurs in 6.

bdubya

06-09-2005, 10:53 AM

You are typical internet opposing fan 101...

If doesn't matter what the criticism is...no matter what it is you wouldn't like it because what you really want to hear is that your team is the most perfect team ever assembled...

Why don't you prove objectivity...why don't you point out the weaknesses in your team for us...since we have the audacity to have a non homer view of the Pistons on a Spurs message board.

Tell you what...I'll tell you that you have the most talented team ever assembled and you can tell me that we have the clutchest team in NBA history...then we can both be happy with someone telling us an untruth that we desperately want to hear.........But the Spurs are definitely more talented than the Pistons...[/QUOTE]

Look, neighborhoJack, quit arguing with yourself (unless you want to keep claiming to be "kicking ass" all over the board); you make some good points, but then start arguing with things that nobody has said ("most talented/most perfect team ever assembled?" where TF is THAT from?)

I granted right off the bat, the Pistons aren't as deep as the Spurs; I'll also add they're not as versatile. I'm not sure they have the edge in coaching either (that's its own thread), but where I disagreement is with your whole "the Spurs are INARGUABLY more talented, hands down, going away, head and shoulders, gospel truth" line. I'll allow the Spurs MAY have the edge there, but if so, it's a very thin edge. I don't think anybody but the Pistons themselves are going to shift your opinion on that, so I'll leave it there.

As far as Pistons' weaknesses, beyond the short bench and Ben's shooting, the big annoyance this year has been their inconsistency; the frequent scoring droughts are an in-game example, but the W-L record for the season also shows it, with multiple blowout losses against teams that are inferior on paper, but that showed up and outplayed the champs on the night they had their chance. I guess I could follow your lead and say that "Atlanta didn't beat the Pistons, the Pistons beat themselves" but the truth of the matter is that on that night, Atlanta DID beat the Pistons.

Eh, let me state my prediction in terms you'll grasp: four times out of the next seven games, the Pistons will have the random good luck to be in the building when the Spurs beat themselves.