This will probably clinch the vote for Bush with any...

[Yonivore]

...true American that was, until now, on the fence between Kerry and the President:


Swift Boat Vets to Launch Another Ad (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,133060,00.html)

"WASHINGTON — The Swift Boat Veterans for Truth are launching a new wave of attacks against Democratic presidential hopeful John Kerry, FOX News has learned."
More...

"It has put $1.2 million behind a new ad that attacks the candidate's 1970 meeting in Paris with members of two North Vietnamese delegations. The ads, which will be launched Wednesday... "
Kerry's thinking, "Damn, I knew that traitorous behavior might come back to haunt me..."

[NeoConIV]

I'm wondering though who is really more effective for a Bush re-election, the Swift Boat Vets or Michael Moore. Moore has become such a pathetic caricature of himself that the more he flaunts his flawed wares and absurd diatribes, the less people take him, and democrats, seriously.

I guess the polls would indicate that the Vets were more effective, but we can't underestimate Moore's capacity to pry votes from Kerry with his unprecedented seething vitriolic hatred and not so subtle anti-Americansim. I think we will soon be calling Moore the 'comeback kid' as far as high octane vote getters for Bush. We'll see.

[afe7FATMAN]

Nothing will cinch the vote for Bush. IMO CBS, ABC, NBC Fox News, Washington Post, NYT and Time could produce video's of Kerry with a 12 year Old girl and a 9 year old boy in porno poses and the Anybody but Bush crowd would still vote for Kerry.

[Yonivore]

The Anybody But Bush crowd won't make or break this election and Kerry's base is shrinking.

[CommanderMcBragg]

The Swift Boat Vets have been discredited so much that I don't think they have the punch they once had.

I think American's are tired of their crap.

[Yonivore]

Oh please...

Discredited how?

Kerry concedes they are right on the Cambodian Christmas.

Kerry concedes they are right on the self-inflicted PH.

Kerry concedes they are right on the fleeing before coming back to pluck that Green Beret out of the water.

I think it's Kerry that is being discredited by the Swiftboat Veterans...

It's a large group...are some of them liars? Maybe -- no, probably. However, if you look at the roster of Swiftboat Veterans for Truth and then look at the roster of Congressional Medal of Honor recipients that have aligned themselves against Kerry, you'd realize, he's screwed.

Pointing to a couple of the vets and assassinating their character doesn't diminish the positions of the remainder.

Kerry, on the other hand, is a group of one -- who has been shown to be a liar. There are no honorable John Kerry's to take up the slack of the ignoble ones.

[Spurminator]

I'm guessing, like the National Guard crisis, the only people who care about the Swift Boat allegations are voters who have already chosen their candidate. It's not that the Vets don't have a right to speak out against Kerry (provided they are truthful) or be angry with the statements he made upon returning from Vietnam... but for most Independent voters, the main issue is "How and where would you lead this country now?"

Not "What kind of a person were you in your early 20's?"

[Joe Chalupa]

I swiftly avoid any politcal ads because they mostly contain half-truths.

Kerry served in Viet Nam and not even the Swift Boat Vets can change that fact.

This BS means nothing.

[Tommy Duncan]

I would tend to agree with Spurm. The evidence is there that voters don't care as much about this crap, especially about a known quantity like Bush, than the diehard partisans on either side.

[Yonivore]

"Kerry served in Viet Nam and not even the Swift Boat Vets can change that fact."
There were other people that served in Vietnam that deserted, murdered, fragged their own, consorted with the enemy...that doesn't make them Presidential material, Joe.

The Swiftboat Veteran's for Truth want the public to know that, just because he served doesn't mean it was with honor or that his service dignified the American soldier's presence in Vietnam.

John Kerry brought the subject of his service up as an example of why he'd make a good Commander in Chief...I think an opponent's position on that claim is not only warranted but invited.

[Joe Chalupa]

There are many who served in the Texas Air National Guard who got drunk, missed some drills, shacked up with some babe, paid for an abortion (alledgedly)..but that doesn't make the presidential material either...does it?

Just because he served doesn't mean it was with honor or that his service dignified the American soldier's presence in Vietnam.

You see....it works both ways. :wink

[Tommy Duncan]

To me it seems a bit extreme to be meeting with representatives of the enemy on your own without authorization from the US government. Perhaps if the Swift Vets want to be more mischievious they would come up with an ad or slogan that doing so would be like 'meeting with al Qaida today.'

[Joe Chalupa]

:rolleyes

[Samurai Jane]

There are many who served in the Texas Air National Guard who got drunk, missed some drills, shacked up with some babe, paid for an abortion (alledgedly)..but that doesn't make the presidential material either...does it?

Just because he served doesn't mean it was with honor or that his service dignified the American soldier's presence in Vietnam.

You see....it works both ways.


Except that Bush wasn't touting TANG as his qualification as Commander In Chief. On the other hand, that seems to be Kerry's only qualification and a very questionable one at that.

[Yonivore]

"There are many who served in the Texas Air National Guard who got drunk, missed some drills, shacked up with some babe, paid for an abortion (alledgedly)..but that doesn't make the presidential material either...does it?

Just because he served doesn't mean it was with honor or that his service dignified the American soldier's presence in Vietnam.

You see....it works both ways."
Except that President Bush isn't running on his TANG service...Kerry says his Vietnam service makes him uniquely qualified for the job of Commander in Chief.

No, it doesn't work both ways...especially if one puts it on their resume' (the only thing on their resume') and the other doesn't.

[Yonivore]

"To me it seems a bit extreme to be meeting with representatives of the enemy on your own without authorization from the US government. Perhaps if the Swift Vets want to be more mischievious they would come up with an ad or slogan that doing so would be like 'meeting with al Qaida today.'"
If Kerry did that today, with al Qaeda, they'd saw his head off and send the video to al Jazeera.

[Hook Dem]

Serve his head up with Heinz Ketchup!

[Bandit2981]

Except that President Bush isn't running on his TANG service
there's a reason for that :)

[SpursWoman]

Because it doesn't taste as good with vodka as the real thing?

http://www.cnib.ca/score/score2000/project_food/images/orange%20juice.jpg


:drunk

[Ruby Ridge]

Oh please...

What color is the sky in your world Yonibore?

[Yonivore]

"there's a reason for that"
Yeah, it's called being irrelevant.

[Yonivore]

"What color is the sky in your world Yonibore?"
I notice you didn't refute any of the statements that followed that "Oh please..."

The fact remains, Kerry's tome, about his service in Vietnam, and he fantastic stories about Cambodia Christmases, has been discredited...not the Swiftboat Veterans.

[Ruby Ridge]

Wrong

interesting (http://mywebpages.comcast.net/atrios/stone1.jpg)

[ClintSquint]

Yonivore, you are an idiot.
You haven't even served and you have the gall to question Kerry's patriotism?
It's already been proven that none of these Swift Boat Vets even served with Kerry so that alone makes their stories not worth listening to.
Amazing how you question Kerry's service that has been proven yet still believe Dubya served when his records can't be found.

Wake up America!!!!!!

[Tommy Duncan]

Was Lee Harvey Oswald a 'patriot'?

[NameDropper]

Rumor has it that Lee Oswald is dead.

[Tommy Duncan]

No kidding.

[Yonivore]

"Yonivore, you are an idiot."
High Praise coming from you.

"You haven't even served and you have the gall to question Kerry's patriotism?"
Timothy McVeigh served. What's service got to do with patirotism?

"It's already been proven that none of these Swift Boat Vets even served with Kerry so that alone makes their stories not worth listening to."
False. It's been established that none of them served on PCF-94. However, none of them claimed to serve on PCF-94, they claimed to serve with Kerry. Here's a hint: Swiftboats never patrolled by themselves -- there were other swiftboats with them.

"Amazing how you question Kerry's service that has been proven..."
I never said he didn't serve. I question the manner in which he served and the things he did after he came back -- and, how he "played" the 3 PH's and your out policy.

"...yet still believe Dubya served when his records can't be found."
Nothing's been presented to refute the President and his Guard service is irrelevant anyway...it's not on his resume. Vietnam is all Kerry put on his resume. Ever wonder why he never talks about his Senate record?

"Wake up America!!!!!!"
Wake up, indeed!

[Bandit2981]

Dan Rather, CBS News Anchor
given documents he thought were true
failed to thoroughly investigate the facts
reported documents to the American people as true to make his case
when confronted with the facts, apologized and launched an investigation
number of Americans dead: 0
should be fired as CBS News Anchor

George W. Bush, President of the United States
given documents he thought were true
failed to thoroughly investigate the facts
reported documents to the American people as true to make his case
when confronted with the facts, continued to report untruth and stonewalled an investigation
number of Americans dead: 1100
should be given four more years as President of the United States

[Ruby Ridge]

Actually the Coward of Crawford had a resume that said he had been in the Air Force which he had never been. Training didn't count as AF duty, he was a NG when he bothered to show up.

[Tommy Duncan]

If I recall correctly he was active duty AF when he was training.

If being a 'coward' meant joining something other than a regular service branch how does John Kerry escape having such a label applied to him?

[Ruby Ridge]

Ah, glad you asked. Actually this is a reference to what I consider his moral cowardice. For example the scared look he got on his face back in the 2000 primaries when John McCain challenged him to his face about the false rumors that his campaign had spread about him in South Carolina.

Also he inability to testify before the 9-11 commission without Dick Cheney by his side.

The way he was bailed out of his Arbusto bust by his father's friends.

the list goes on.