Grizz were just better

[Kori Ellis]

Thanks for everything, TD.

:toast

[21_Blessings]

Fluke/lucky season?

[Martin R]

Spurs showed no weapons to take down the grizzlies.

[benefactor]

It's been a great run. I wouldn't want it any other way.

[MmP]

total fluke

griz wanted it more, plain simple.
great team

fuck u bonner, fuck u jefferson useless.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Hard to beat a team bigger, stronger, faster, younger than you at every position.

[MmP]

total fluke

griz wanted it more, plain simple.
great team

fuck u bonner, fuck u jefferson useless.

[Ginobilly]

Spurs were just a joke all year long! Fuck you Pop, fuck you Dick, and fuck you Holt too for listening to POP!

[21_Blessings]

Is Tim really going to leave 20 million on the table though?

[Kori Ellis]

Fluke/lucky season?

A lot of fluke wins, but mainly a fluke model (all 3's/no D).

[Kori Ellis]

Is Tim really going to leave 20 million on the table though?

:lol No

[Cry Havoc]

This loss is on Pop and Pop alone. Tiago plays great in the 1st half? PLAY BONNER THE ENTIRE 3RD QUARTER!

[ATXSPUR]

I thought our living by the three was going to catch up to us in the playoffs eventually. But I didn't think round one...

[ShoogarBear]

A lot of fluke wins, but mainly a fluke model (all 3's/no D).

Would be proud------>http://www.candistar.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/don_nelson2.jpg

[yavozerb]

Its been fun guys...Let the rebuilding begin

[mattyc]

Agreed. Too good. Too hungry. Spurs need to look at a major rebuild.

[angelbelow]

A lot of fluke wins, but mainly a fluke model (all 3's/no D).

Well said..

[resistanze]

They overachieved this year. Used a formula that was proven to fail in the playoffs and isn't the formula championship Spurs basketball was based on.

[alchemist]

honestly I don't buy this, but I give them their due. Mentally they raped the Spurs, Manu/TD/Parker choked big time.

[slick'81]

they were better spurs couldnt match up with them inside and memphis took the spurs best shots and responded

[yavozerb]

A lot of fluke wins, but mainly a fluke model (all 3's/no D).

Cant blame pop for trying this model out cause I think he came to conclusion last season that there defense was not a strong pt anymore..

[SenorSpur]

Yes they were better.

[Bruno]

Well, Grizz were just lest worst. They sucks and will be destroyed by Thunder.

It's unreal how awful Spurs were in the playoffs.

[TDMVPDPOY]

bonner and jefferson too many minutes while not contributing while on the court, as sooon they hit a basket, pop continues to leave them in the game

bonner 3qt killer, when splitter shouldve been on the court taking his minutes who only had a measley 1min to close out the quarter...fkn just pathetic..

pop needs to go, dude is just living on reputation and has fail last 3-4 seasons now...

[TDMVPDPOY]

bonner and jefferson too many minutes while not contributing while on the court, as sooon they hit a basket, pop continues to leave them in the game

bonner 3qt killer, when splitter shouldve been on the court taking his minutes who only had a measley 1min to close out the quarter...fkn just pathetic..

pop needs to go, dude is just living on reputation and has fail last 3-4 seasons now...

[Cane]

The Grizz are one hell of a ballclub especially Zbo. They're also bigger, more athletic, stronger, and played like they were in another gear.

Damn shame the Spurs weren't able to finish with a healthier season but its not like the Grizz weren't missing Rudy Gay anyway.

Fun times nonetheless :cry:

[BlackSwordsMan]

werd
cya duncan RIP salutations I love you

[DMX7]

The #8 Seed was just better, that pretty much concludes this era of Spurs Basketball.

[DPG21920]

Memphis was not better. They played better, but if both played their best, spurs win. Memphis while tough are no where near as talented.

Wouldnt have wanted it any other way? How about winning, I'd rather that.

[tlongII]

The Grizz are going to give OKC all they can handle. They beat them 3 out of 4 in the season series.

[ShoogarBear]

I would pay $50 cash if someone in the presser would ask Pop if the Spurs learned anything from this experience.

[Ginobilly]

Cant blame pop for trying this model out cause I think he came to conclusion last season that there defense was not a strong pt anymore..

it's his fault because he got that type of personnel! We shouldn't of never of signed Bonner and that fagget Jefferson.

[bluefoot]

This isn't about Pop. Not about choking. Not about Manu injury. Memphis was better. They had an answer at every turn, no matter what the Spurs did. Spurs gave their best shot when they went up 1 late in the fourth but Memphis would not fall.

Valiant, valiant effort by the Spurs. That's the type of effort I love to see. If you're going to lose, leave nothing behind and they didn't.

[jag]

The Grizz defense was incredible to watch. I miss seeing that kind of D.

[BlackSwordsMan]

Memphis was not better. They played better, but if both played their best, spurs win. Memphis while tough are no where near as talented.

Wouldnt have wanted it any other way? How about winning, I'd rather that.

coulda woulda shoulda
memphis > spurs

[romsho]

Well, Grizz were just lest worst. They sucks and will be destroyed by Thunder.

It's unreal how awful Spurs were in the playoffs.

Disagree. They play tough, aggressive defense and that will always keep them in games. Kind of like a team I remember...

[InTheCrust]

Reality hits hard. Can't cheat death forever.

But on the flip side, how the fuck are we gonna deal with RJ's contract???

[InTheCrust]

Reality hits hard. Can't cheat death forever.

But on the flip side, how the fuck are we gonna deal with RJ's contract???

[CharlieMac]

We just saw the Spurs Dynasty get died tonight.

Great season guys. Best season since the 67 win Mavs.

Oops.

[BoricuaCJA]

They were. I just hope we fix our team b/c like most people have said, 3 pt shooting teams don't win. I want them to go after some defensive type players. I hope all of our role players try to improve on an area in their game.

[Roxsfan]

Spurs had a bad ass motherfukin run with TD!:lobt::lobt::lobt::lobt:

[jag]

I'll always love Pop. And I know TD isnt the same guy he was in '99.. and i know McDyess is no DRob, but Pop isn't the same guy, either. His stubbornness has remained but his focus has shifted. It's tough to watch.

[ShoogarBear]

Memphis was not better. They played better, but if both played their best, spurs win. Memphis while tough are no where near as talented.

Wouldnt have wanted it any other way? How about winning, I'd rather that.
I bet you could find almost nearly the same quotes on Suns boards at the end of every year in the mid 2000s.

When you rely on outscoring the other guy, you always end up looking for excuses.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Hard to beat a team bigger, stronger, faster, younger than you at every position.

Yup.


Spurs were just a joke all year long! Fuck you Pop, fuck you Dick, and fuck you Holt too for listening to POP!

Wrong! The team looked incredible for 75% of the season and forgetting that is revisionism.


Well, Grizz were just lest worst. They sucks and will be destroyed by Thunder.

It's unreal how awful Spurs were in the playoffs.

I'd actually argue that it's unreal how bad we were post-ASB. You could see this coming in mid-March when SPAM was well and truly dead and then we lost those 6 games in a row. Inexplicably, the chemistry and poise we had displayed so much of in games 1 to 60 simply evaporated at the business end of the season. Depressing to watch.

[Kori Ellis]

Memphis was not better. They played better, but if both played their best, spurs win. Memphis while tough are no where near as talented.

Wouldnt have wanted it any other way? How about winning, I'd rather that.


That's the problem, they're not. The Spurs didn't play their best this entire series with the exception of the overtime period in game 5. A John Wooden quote comes to mind "As long as you try your best, you are never a failure." the Spurs failed this series.

In this series, Memphis was better. That's the point. You can argue semantics all you want, but the Spurs weren't strong enough, quick enough, athletic enough, relentless enough, and certainly, not good enough on D to beat the Grizzlies.

And the Spurs did try...they just couldn't get it done.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Memphis was not better. They played better, but if both played their best, spurs win. Memphis while tough are no where near as talented.

Wouldnt have wanted it any other way? How about winning, I'd rather that.

This will always be a misconception about this series.

Memphis playing their best = Spurs not playing their best, by definition. Because Memphis is a defensive team, that comes out of every strategic timeout playing and executing their best.

[Brazil]

Pop interview : I'm going to drink a gatorade

[ElNono]

They were. Too many weak spots on this Spurs team... especially on D...
Thanks to TD/Tony/Manu for the last two games though... they tried to tough it out, but it wasn't enough...

[baseline bum]

Time to do a complete rebuild. Offer Tim the option of either staying for the rebuild or a buyout if he wants to be on a contender. Trade Manu for someone who can be a good piece for the future, see what you can get for Tony but don't pull the trigger unless it's a nice package, and then give Bonner and Jefferson all the minutes they want to lead the team to a 30 win season and the chance to draft one of the great crop of forwards coming out in the 2012 draft. I really hope this is a 20-win (or equivalent in the case of a shortened season) team next year; there is no reason to screw around and procrastinate with rebuilding this team.

[Ginobilly]

In this series, Memphis was better. That's the point. You can argue semantics all you want, but the Spurs weren't strong enough, quick enough, athletic enough, relentless enough, and certainly, not good enough on D to beat the Grizzlies.

And the Spurs did try...they just couldn't get it done.


I agree 100% of what you just said, but whose fault is this?? Certainly the front office and Pop's fault that they never got the help that this team desperately needed after 08. All these reloaded with young talent and free agents and all the Spurs mustered up was Dick Jefferson's fagget ass, and Hill Country Fair Bonner's cheap ass. Tim Duncan deserved better than this shit!

[DDS4]

So this is how it feels like to be beaten by the Spurs of years past.

[jag]

I bet you could find almost nearly the same quotes on Suns boards at the end of every year in the mid 2000s.

When you rely on outscoring the other guy, you always end up looking for excuses.

Great post.

They were outplayed, out-coached, out-hustled and looked incredibly inexperienced during crunch time of every game. They did everything they could to give game 5 away with turnovers.

The better team won. And one coach manhandled the other.

Anyone saying Memphis isn't the more talented team, is in denial. "Potential" talent has never meant shit if it never materializes.

[Harry Callahan]

Last time I checked, I can't think of a championship team whose best front court player is 35 years old. The rest of the front court was just not that good. The NBA is a young man's game. That's just a fact.

The Spurs did an amazing job in the regular season, but their lack of size along with the injuries caught up with them.

This situation won't get fixed in an offseason.

Big changes are on the way, and they may be painful.

For all those folks who want to put the Spurs in the same boat as the 07 Mavericks, its not the same. The Mavericks were healthy and a lot younger at the time. Their top guys were all in their basketball prime.

It's clear the Spurs were past their prime as players on the whole. It's been a great 14 year run with Duncan. There may be a 15th year with this core, but the results will probably not be pretty.

[NASpurs]

Time to do a complete rebuild. Offer Tim the option of either staying for the rebuild or a buyout if he wants to be on a contender. Trade Manu for someone who can be a good piece for the future, see what you can get for Tony but don't pull the trigger unless it's a nice package, and then give Bonner and Jefferson all the minutes they want to lead the team to a 30 win season and the chance to draft one of the great crop of forwards coming out in the 2012 draft. I really hope this is a 20-win (or equivalent in the case of a shortened season) team next year; there is no reason to screw around and procrastinate with rebuilding this team.

You just made me want to kill myself. :lol I have never disliked any two players more than I do these two and that includes anyone during the Robinson era. These two were the beginning of the end and I can't imagine how it's going to be the next few years when the Spurs can't trade their asses and have to suffer through the contracts. Fuck thanks for opening my eyes to that reality. :wow

[Ginobilly]

Time to do a complete rebuild. Offer Tim the option of either staying for the rebuild or a buyout if he wants to be on a contender. Trade Manu for someone who can be a good piece for the future, see what you can get for Tony but don't pull the trigger unless it's a nice package, and then give Bonner and Jefferson all the minutes they want to lead the team to a 30 win season and the chance to draft one of the great crop of forwards coming out in the 2012 draft. I really hope this is a 20-win (or equivalent in the case of a shortened season) team next year; there is no reason to screw around and procrastinate with rebuilding this team.

+10000000000000000000000000000000000000

I would hate seeing Tim, Manu, and Parker leave, but it's for the better. I don't see how they could win another championship unless we somehow get a big time post player. Even though I bleed silver and black, I would like to see Tim and Manu win another championship with a contender because the front office owes them that! They owe them that because they never got them legit help after 07!

[Harry Callahan]

Cleaning house is easier said than done. It will be at least 2-3 years of bad basketball before the arrow is pointing up again (if they are fortunate).

This team has probably one or two assets other teams would want along with the 29th pick in the draft.

You need lottery picks to really get better. The Spurs haven't had one since Duncan. It's a miracle they have been so consistently competitive for so long.

[Spur-Addict]

They took it to us in the paint. If it wasn't the frontline, it was a back cut. I love that style of basketball, and that's why it was hard to see it executed against us. Well done Grizz

[DPG21920]

Wow. If people truly believe that 8th seed Memphis with marginal talent was betterthan the Spurs you need your head examined. They deserve all the credit for pounding the Spurs but they were not the better team, they simply played better.

This isn't the Suns losing to a championship team. This is the I have never won a playoff game 8th seed without their most talented player not shitting the bed lke the Spurs. MEM gets and deserves the credit, they aren't better.

[scottspurs]

I agree. Despite the loss I'm still proud of the Spurs. They fought until the bitter end. The Grizzlies were just the more talented and tougher team.

[jag]

There is a difference between trying and trying your best, playing your hardest. The Spurs were even better playing half-assed and out of their game. It came down to the fact that the Spurs were about as aggressive as a middle school girls team. They lacked the edge, the "if you hit me, I'm hitting back harder" mentality they needed. With the exception of game 4, all of these games were close and of the Spurs had the balls to hit back and turn those tick-tac foul calls into "don't come near the rim" fouls then the Spurs would have won in 5.

That is my number 1 gripe with the NBA today. It's too clean. People think "cheap shots" and fights shouldn't allowed. Basketball is a contact sport. Not one player from the 60s-80s could play in today's NBA because the refs would foul them out or eject them in minutes. It's a damn shame that the way Memphis plays is "physical."

The Spurs lacked the edge and aggressiveness needed to win because Memphis dominated those areas. Their defense forced the Spurs into horrible offense. Tony, Manu and Tim "tried their best." Memphis tried their best. And their best shut down the Spurs. That's the advantage of having a great defense. You keep opposing teams from playing their best.

[Borosai]

Yeah, they were the better team, from coaching to their scrubs.

[TDfan2007]

Let one thing be clear, the Spurs did not leave it all on the floor in this series. Memphis won because they wanted it more and defended better.

[crc21209]

Tim, Tony, Manu, Neal, Dice, and Splitter (even with the limited minutes he got) gave it all they have......

[TJastal]

Wow. If people truly believe that 8th seed Memphis with marginal talent was betterthan the Spurs you need your head examined. They deserve all the credit for pounding the Spurs but they were not the better team, they simply played better.

This isn't the Suns losing to a championship team. This is the I have never won a playoff game 8th seed without their most talented player not shitting the bed lke the Spurs. MEM gets and deserves the credit, they aren't better.

+1

The spurs had the better team, better personnel. Hollins just plain outcoached Popovich, and used his personnel more wisely.

[ShoogarBear]

Memphis record after Dec 31: 32-18
San Antonio record after Dec 31: 33-17

Doesn't look like such a huge talent differential there.

[BobEX]

Spurs had no answer for Randolph. He was the difference in the series.

[TampaDude]

The Grizzlies were the better team. Can't win a series, let alone a title, without a good defense. Unlike the championship Spurs teams of the past, the 2011 Spurs had no defense. They had no shot...none...at #5 the way they were playing this year.

[DPG21920]

I know it sucks guys, but the Spurs overall didn't give a great effort and they choked. It sucks, but it's the truth.

I am very sad in the moment, but there's always tomorrow and I look forward to the franchises response.

[NASpurs]

Memphis record after Dec 31: 32-18
San Antonio record after Dec 31: 33-17

Doesn't look like such a huge talent differential there.

What's the record after the All Star break?

[jag]

Wow. If people truly believe that 8th seed Memphis with marginal talent was betterthan the Spurs you need your head examined. They deserve all the credit for pounding the Spurs but they were not the better team, they simply played better.

This isn't the Suns losing to a championship team. This is the I have never won a playoff game 8th seed without their most talented player not shitting the bed lke the Spurs. MEM gets and deserves the credit, they aren't better.

Arguing completely subjective things, like "the spurs are more talented", is laughable.

No joke, it's what I saw from Suns fans for years.

[crc21209]

For some weird reason, I think if the Grizzlies actually had Rudy Gay they would have been worse off and he would've messed up team chemistry. Gay would've taken away alot of shots from Randolph and Gasol.....Anybody else feel like I do?

[ShoogarBear]

What's the record after the All Star break?

Memphis 15-10(*)
Spurs 15-11



(*) including two tanked games :depressed

[DPG21920]

bonner and jefferson too many minutes while not contributing while on the court, as sooon they hit a basket, pop continues to leave them in the game

bonner 3qt killer, when splitter shouldve been on the court taking his minutes who only had a measley 1min to close out the quarter...fkn just pathetic..

pop needs to go, dude is just living on reputation and has fail last 3-4 seasons now...


Memphis record after Dec 31: 32-18
San Antonio record after Dec 31: 33-17

Doesn't look like such a huge talent differential there.

:lmao, well it's a good thing that the NBA is only half a season and nothing else matters. Why don't you post CLE's previous years regular season numbers to see how they compared overall.

[tim_duncan_fan]

Seriously though, Duncan...were you created by magic?


Most influential player since Jordan.


Thanks.

[MannyIsGod]

Philla, being hungry is one the factors that determines how good you can be and how good you are. The Spurs are not nearly as hungry as the Griz are, and thats probably OK after 4 championships but thats just as important as talent in determining how good a team is.

[DPG21920]

Arguing completely subjective things, like "the spurs are more talented", is laughable.

No joke, it's what I saw from Suns fans for years.

I dont give a shit what you saw, Tim/TP/Manu >>>>>>Zbo/Gasol/Conley. I know it didn't seem that way this series, but that's bc MEM maximized their marginal talent and SA shit the bed.

Tough facts, but truth.

[jag]

I know this team personally. I seen every game, almost half in person. The Spurs didn't try their best since March 6th. The Spurs are still going to be top 6 or 8 next season if they want, but they let Memphis win this series by not playing physical.

It's tough to play physical when you're opponent is bigger, more athletic, faster and continues to be aggressive. It's tough to give that extra push when you're at the end of your career. It's tough to "try your best" when you have nothing left in the tank and youre facing a team with all the physical advantages the Grizz have.

[NASpurs]

It's tough to play physical when you're opponent is bigger, more athletic, faster and continues to be aggressive. It's tough to give that extra push when you're at the end of your career. It's tough to "try your best" when you have nothing left in the tank and youre facing a team with all the physical advantages the Grizz have.

Yeah the Grizz are all that but the Spurs are still "better".

[scottspurs]

For some weird reason, I think if the Grizzlies actually had Rudy Gay they would have been worse off and he would've messed up team chemistry. Gay would've taken away alot of shots from Randolph and Gasol.....Anybody else feel like I do?

I agree. He would of demanded touches

[Chomag]

Proven once again 3 point shooting and superior offence doesnt do much for you in the playoffs. Ask Phoenix how much that helped them.

[LakerLanny]

Thanks for everything, TD.

:toast

Sorry about your team Kori, just a bad matchup.

Your daughter is adorable....there are more important things than basketball as you obviously know.

Congrats on your growing family!

[venitian navigator]

Griz were better without their best player...this can mean they're really strong or we are really weak. We had no real injury to our players...except for their age.
Frankly, I don't know if any of the big three would like to be sold to another team, and more than all I don't think any team would give us back anything near their real value...expecially considering that during the summer Manu and Tony will play with their national teams.

Rebuilding ? yes, but probably starting with the pieces we already have.
The only thing to decide is how to develop players like Blair and Splitter.

As of now, I see at least 7 "young" players worth playing time in our roster :

1) Hill;
2) Neal;
3) Green;
4) Blair;
5) Splitter;
6) Butler;
7) Anderson.

As for the market, I think our main assets, for as weird as it could be, will be Jefferson, Bonner and Mc Dyess.

RJ, with his restructured contract, can be a decent deal for any up tempo team with play offs goals...
Dice is a good piece to trade just because off how his contract is structured.
Bonner cames out a season of being the best three point shooter of the league...and can be a good reserve piece for any nba team.
We'll see what we get out of them three.

For none of the three (Dice 'cause of retirement) there can be, imho, any more space in this team...simply 'cause we need to try younger legs (i mean to Bonner taht we have to find someone that can play defense) end 'cause at this point we can finally say with no more doubts that RJ was not then kind of player for our game system.

[ShoogarBear]

:lmao, well it's a good thing that the NBA is only half a season and nothing else matters.

Clearly, the evidence from this series is that the second half matters more than the first.


Why don't you post CLE's previous years regular season numbers to see how they compared overall.

You know, if you're trying to argue the point that Regular Season records mean something, you really shouldn't be bringing up the 2009-2010 Cavs or the 2011 Spurs.

[jag]

Tim is no longer better than ZBo, and was canceled out by Gasol. That's where the series was lost.

Tough facts. But truth

[DPG21920]

So evidently the Grizz are the most deep, rugged and talented team in the league. It's hilarious bc I was one of only a few vocal posters about how tough the Grizz were for the Spurs and now the same people who scoffed are trying to do a complete 180 over reaction.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

DPG you're in denial bro, not us.

[ploto]

The Grizzlies defense was better than the Spurs offense, and that offense is what the Spurs hung their hat on all season.

[DPG21920]

Tim is no longer better than ZBo, and was canceled out by Gasol. That's where the series was lost.

Tough facts. But truth

True. Tim was out played by both. Spurs are a better team.

[jag]

So evidently the Grizz are the most deep, rugged and talented team in the league. It's hilarious bc I was one of only a few vocal posters about how tough the Grizz were for the Spurs and now the same people who scoffed are trying to do a complete 180 over reaction.

no. But they're better than the Spurs.

Tough facts, but truth.

[DPG21920]

DPG you're in denial bro, not us.

No. You are having a knee-jerk reaction to a choke.

[MannyIsGod]

True. I felt that the Spurs would be hungry, only Tim, Manu, Bonner and Tomy have won NBA championships, but I guess that's the way it goes. As much as I liked McDyess calling the team out, he should have lead by example. Even if it cost him a game, fouling the shot out of Zach Randolph in a game AT San Antonio would have sparked the team and been what the Spurs needed. I mean if Antonio McDyes went Kevin McHale on Kurt Rambus out there that would have sent a message to the quiet Spurs fans, the soft Spurs players and the young Memphis team that the Spurs meant business.

Hard to listen to a guy who's not out there really producing all that much. It seemed to me as an outsider that AD spoke out because he felt his last chance at a ring slipping away, but thats life.

George Hill, Matt Bonner, Richard Jefferson are all far too soft. Blair is probably in that group also. This team didn't have the mental strength to compete with the Griz.

[ShoogarBear]

So evidently the Grizz are the most deep, rugged and talented team in the league. It's hilarious bc I was one of only a few vocal posters about how tough the Grizz were for the Spurs and now the same people who scoffed are trying to do a complete 180 over reaction.

Hmm, I said the Griz were a bad matchup for the Spurs. And nobody said they were the most deep, rugged, and talented team in the league.

Talk about over reaction.

[mingus]

Spurs weren't going to win the this series w/o Manu in game 1. Spurs worked hard all year long for HCA. it is clear that they need it in this series because Memphis is the better team. Manu said he wanted to play and i think Pop should've listened to his best player.

but let's move on...

Spurs weren't going to win it all this year. i think they match up very well against OKC and could've beaten them, but they were not going to beat LA, basically a better version of Memphis. and, to me, there are two reasons this team was never a contender, and i see it now. first, and most importantly, Duncan isn't Duncan anymore. he's a shadow of his former self. the Duncan we saw in the reg. season was here to stay. he can no longer "flip the switch" in the playoffs. he's just too damn old. nothing wrong with that. father time gets the best of everyone. second reason the Spurs were not contenders is they don't have a perimiter defender. they don't have anyone they can say "go make player x work his ass for a basket." i mean, Mike Conley and, at times (too many times), Sam Young looked looked like All-Stars. a guy like Bowen would've shut at least one of those guys down and Memphis loses.

[DMC]

The Grizz were better built and trained to win against the Spurs than the Spurs were to win against the Grizz.

The Spurs were built to do well in the regular season, and in the playoffs you could see Pop trying to patch in the old style inside out game and it didn't work. Ginobili's injury had a role, but all in all the Spurs are no exception to the rule that you dance with the one that brought you, and the inside out game did not bring the Spurs to the playoffs. Tim was not relied upon during the season to win games. Tiago was not relied upon to do anything. Suddenly we start relying on them as if Tim is a secret weapon.

I really do not think there was anything this team could have done with the players they had, other than play Tiago more, to get them to the ring. They were, at best, a WCF team but no way they get out of it.

I have thoroughly enjoyed watching Tim play since he was drafted and even in college. The problem with greats like Tim is that we see them in their waning years and those who don't really know start questioning just how great they were to begin with. For that reason, I hope Tim does his retirement tour next year and enjoys his health, his kids and his wife wherever he chooses to live. He's a class act just like Dave and deserves no less.

I hope Kobe dies in a grease fire. :) j/k

[MannyIsGod]

No. You are having a knee-jerk reaction to a choke.

You've been saying all year how the Spurs are overachieving and they had problems and now all of a sudden its a choke. They just weren't that good. They didn't have a player in the series the caliber of Zach Randolph and Gasol was Duncan's equal. Their defense was far better and the truth is they were the better team - not by much - but they were the better team.

[jag]

If DPG really wants to talk about which team is more "talented", then let's start talking about OJ Mayo's raw basketball talent. He might be the most talented player on either bench but doesn't have the brain to put it all together. Let's talk about Rudy Gay's talent that was wrapped up in an arm sling.

If it makes you feel better to say the Spurs are more "talented", then so be it. But keep in mind that's not the reality of a team that just lost 4-2.

[HarlemHeat37]

This was a case of match-ups..Memphis matched up perfectly with the Spurs..the Lakers are the only team in the West that presented a worse match up than Memphis..

I don't think they're better than the Spurs against the rest of the West, other than LA, though..they will get killed by OKC, their flaws will be exploited..this was a perfect match up, they obviously knew it, since they tanked to get this match up..

[mytespurs]

In this series, Memphis was better. That's the point. You can argue semantics all you want, but the Spurs weren't strong enough, quick enough, athletic enough, relentless enough, and certainly, not good enough on D to beat the Grizzlies.

And the Spurs did try...they just couldn't get it done.

Well said Kori! Memphis was the better team throughout this series & DESERVED to go to the next round.

Like many Spurs fans, I'm sad, disappointed, angry, depressed....you name it, on how the season ended.....hard to believe this team was able to win 61 games and yet get ousted in the 1st round w/o a chance to compete for the championship. Yet I'm also relieved because the way this team was playing at this point, if they were able to escape Memphis, they would've been eliminated by either OKC or the Lakers.

So congratulations Memphis-well earned & well deserved win!!! :toast:toast Good Luck in the next round.

And to my Spurs, thanks for a wonderful season; looking forward to 2011-2012. Have a great summer guys & stay healthy.......and come back hungry!!!! :king

[Ghazi]

Grizz were betterPERIOD

DPG, you wrong on dis

[MannyIsGod]

Convinced DPG just likes to be contrarian at this point.

[TJastal]

So evidently the Grizz are the most deep, rugged and talented team in the league. It's hilarious bc I was one of only a few vocal posters about how tough the Grizz were for the Spurs and now the same people who scoffed are trying to do a complete 180 over reaction.

:lmao

Just laugh at the absurdity of some of the posters. That's what I do. It's really good entertainment, DPG. :toast

[DPG21920]

You've been saying all year how the Spurs are overachieving and they had problems and now all of a sudden its a choke. They just weren't that good. They didn't have a player in the series the caliber of Zach Randolph and Gasol was Duncan's equal. Their defense was far better and the truth is they were the better team - not by much - but they were the better team.

Just because the Spurs over achieved and anyone with a logical brain saw they had serious problems with regards to a title run doesn't make the Memphis Grizzlies better than them. They are not mutually exclusive opinions.

I am not disagreeing that Zbo was the best player in the series and that Marc washed out Tim. That all happened. It doesn't change the fact it shouldn't have happened. The Spurs lost to an inferior team who executed very well. The Spurs choked. End of story. It sucks.

Lets put it this way:

1) Did Memphis play about as well as they could?

2) Did the Spurs?

3) If the Spurs played about as well as they could, or even just their normal level, do they win?


If DPG really wants to talk about which team is more "talented", then let's start talking about OJ Mayo's raw basketball talent. He might be the most talented player on either bench but doesn't have the brain to put it all together. Let's talk about Rudy Gay's talent that was wrapped up in an arm sling.

If it makes you feel better to say the Spurs are more "talented", then so be it. But keep in mind that's not the reality of a team that just lost 4-2.

What a terribly shitty argument. Am I talking about "raw" talent, or proven, championship talent vs a team that never won a game? Am I talking about "perceived upside" or am I talking about a 1 seed vs an 8 seed?

It doesn't make me feel better to say they are more talented. It makes me feel worse. However, laying the "they were just better" makes you feel better because you don't have to acknowledge the truth; the Spurs lost to an clearly inferior team that they shouldn't have lost to.

[mexicanjunior]

...and thanks for nothing Pop.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6547250/Pics/hang_pop.jpg

[DPG21920]

Convinced DPG just likes to be contrarian at this point.

:rolleyes Yeah, because I am always like that and I am making illogical points.

[jag]

Convinced DPG just likes to be contrarian at this point.

He gets emotional after loses and doesn't think straight for a few days.

[DPG21920]

Jag, you are being a dip shit. Not because of your opinion, but because you throw that around like it's funny.

[TJastal]

You've been saying all year how the Spurs are overachieving and they had problems and now all of a sudden its a choke. They just weren't that good. They didn't have a player in the series the caliber of Zach Randolph and Gasol was Duncan's equal. Their defense was far better and the truth is they were the better team - not by much - but they were the better team.

When you continually use Matt Bonner as your frontline, anybody would look like Duncan's equal.

[Budkin]

We all knew this was coming in the playoffs, just not in round one. It was a fun season while it lasted.

[jag]

What a terribly shitty argument. Am I talking about "raw" talent, or proven, championship talent vs a team that never won a game? Am I talking about "perceived upside" or am I talking about a 1 seed vs an 8 seed?

It doesn't make me feel better to say they are more talented. It makes me feel worse. However, laying the "they were just better" makes you feel better because you don't have to acknowledge the truth; the Spurs lost to an clearly inferior team that they shouldn't have lost to.

Actual knowledge of the truth? Better teams win 7-game series. Better teams dominate inferior teams to the tune of 4-2. You're arguing that the Spurs have talent that didn't manifest because of "x" reason. What you are purposefully ignoring is that the Grizzlies suppressed the Spurs' strengths. That's what good teams do. That's how the Spurs won titles.

The Spurs had 6 chances to let all their talent shine. Arguing that your team is still more talented, is the argument of losers. It's all losers have left to cling to. It's obvious you cant accept the quantifiable. So i guess you can spend your time arguing the qualifiable with Suns fan.

[Andrew Cunanan]

The better team always wins in a 7-game series.

[DPG21920]

The Spurs choked. That is what a choke is. It's having the talent and losing to a lesser team.

Are there such things as a choke? Or does the better team always win?

[michaelwcho]

Notice that according to WoW, Memphis appeared to be the stronger team.

San Antonio vs. Memphis

Injuries have clearly hurt the Spurs (pun intended). Since the All-Star break the Spurs differential is 2.8. And the Grizzlies mark is 4.3 since the break (a mark achieved primarily without Rudy Gay). So this suggests the Grizzlies – a team that has never won an NBA playoff game – might defeat the number one seed in the Western Conference. Although I am tempted to make such a pick, I am going to guess that Manu Ginobili will eventually be healthy enough to make a contribution. So my pick is…

San Antonio (4-2)

He also commented on the RJ trade that he wouldn't help the team:

But across the past three seasons, Jefferson has generally been below average with respect to everything not associated with scoring. And when we look at scoring, we see a player that is only slightly above average.



http://dberri.wordpress.com/2011/04/16/true-hoop-smackdown-in-2011/
http://dberri.wordpress.com/2009/06/24/trading-before-the-draft/

[jag]

Jag, you are being a dip shit. Not because of your opinion, but because you throw that around like it's funny.

Ok, ok.. I take it back

[DPG21920]

:lmao at quantifiable. Am I denying the Grizz won the series?

Did the Spurs play their best or any where close to it? If they did, would they have won?

[jag]

:lmao at quantifiable. Am I denying the Grizz won the series?

Did the Spurs play their best or any where close to it? If they did, would they have won?

The Grizz wouldn't be the better team if they allowed San Antonio to run all over the court playing their "best." It's not what good teams do.

[200 miles]

When you continually use Matt Bonner as your frontline, anybody would look like Duncan's equal.

[jag]

Bruce Bowen's job was to follow Kobe around and prevent him from playing his best. It's what good defenders do.

[DPG21920]

I see what you are saying, and that is where MEM gets credit, but it wasn't all on them. The Spurs could have quite easily done things better that MEM couldn't control. The Spurs hurt themselves every bit as much as MEM did.

I am not saying the Spurs weren't mentally weak and that the Grizz did not deserve to win. I am saying, that despite how well MEM played and despite all the things they took away from the Spurs, the Spurs shot themselves in the foot numerous times and could have (which I know didn't happen) and most importantly SHOULD have won.

Spurs just flat out choked and couldn't survive it because of how well MEM played.

[jag]

I see what you are saying, and that is where MEM gets credit, but it wasn't all on them. The Spurs could have quite easily done things better that MEM couldn't control. The Spurs hurt themselves every bit as much as MEM did.

I am not saying the Spurs weren't mentally weak and that the Grizz did not deserve to win. I am saying, that despite how well MEM played and despite all the things they took away from the Spurs, the Spurs shot themselves in the foot numerous times and could have (which I know didn't happen) and most importantly SHOULD have won.

Spurs just flat out choked and couldn't survive it because of how well MEM played.

The Spurs no longer have the players to match teams like Memphis. Memphis took away their strengths and were able to show more talent. Because of that they were the better team.

The Spurs made some stupid plays and had costly turnovers throughout the series, and if you continue to do that in a 7-game series you will eventually lose. They were a lesser team in many areas. Not many people here think they choked. All their supposed, potential talent means nothing.

[DPG21920]

MEM was the better team for the series, they weren't the better team and this arguing isn't changing anyone's mind. Spurs played like shit and it wasn't just MEM.

[DPG21920]

The only person I care about said the same thing. Tim Duncan. He pretty much flat out said credit to MEM, but we didn't get it done. He very simply implied they lost to an inferior team. Watch his post game.

[ploto]

... Credit to MEM, but we didn't get it done. He very simply implied they lost to an inferior team.


I think that is a dangerous mindset. It makes the team think they are constructed fine as they are- which was a problem going into this season already.

[Master splitter]

Grizz played the old spurs, pop kept the young players out but it was too little too late. The momentum was on their side. Thanks pop for helping them win

[DPG21920]

Not really. I think it shows that they have serious problems if they can allow for that to happen.

[Budkin]

The whole thing just sucks... I can't believe we got punked by a bunch of tanking shit talkers.

[DrSteffo]

Agreed, Grizz were just better. Props to them. Playing defense and having good size is not that bad in the playoffs. I hope Pop will learn something but I'm not sure about that. BUT I still love this team and even if we are going to have years of fail we still have four trophies and some great memories.

[1Parker1]

Last time I checked, I can't think of a championship team whose best front court player is 35 years old. The rest of the front court was just not that good. The NBA is a young man's game. That's just a fact.

Hi...The Boston Celtics called. They'd like for you to call back Kevin Garnett.

[15 and counting]

Hi...The Boston Celtics called. They'd like for you to call back Kevin Garnett.

Memphis is no joke. The Spurs played the toughest team in the 1st round. They would have beaten any other team besides LA and Memphis. This includes Boston, Dallas, OK and any eastern team. LA would have beaten the Spurs but SA would have been ready for LA. Memphis on the other hand was underrated from the start. I just hate for Duncans legacy to end like this.

[1Parker1]

Memphis is no joke. The Spurs played the toughest team in the 1st round. They would have beaten any other team besides LA and Memphis. This includes Boston, Dallas, OK and any eastern team. LA would have beaten the Spurs but SA would have been ready for LA. Memphis on the other hand was underrated from the start. I just hate for Duncans legacy to end like this.

I wasn't implying that Memphis is no joke. I'm just trying show that 30 something starting frontcourt players have won championships and some are still contending for one as Duncan packs up his bags for summer vacation.

[TJastal]

I don't know. I give Memphis a chance to beat Memphis, that Memphis squad is tougher than you think.

[Koolaid_Man]

Thanks for everything, TD.

:toast


despite his hard to watch performances of late...I must give you credit for being the ONLY person to say thank you to Timmy for what he's done for you and your city. :toast

[15 and counting]

I wasn't implying that Memphis is no joke. I'm just trying show that 30 something starting frontcourt players have won championships and some are still contending for one as Duncan packs up his bags for summer vacation.

I hear you. However, the Grizzlies were pussies to not have done the right thing and not tanked to begin with. While that decision payed off in the short term, They will regret it in the long term. They were classless by falling down to play the Spurs. A real team does not do this and they lost all respect in my book. Had they played LA in the 1st round they could have easily surprised LA and beaten them. Now, they are a target by beating the Spurs. Spurs took them lightly. Spurs will be alright. I seriously would keep Duncan and all the young crew but trade everyone else and start fresh. Duncan might not be the same player but he is still a top 20 player in the NBA easily. He simply is not capable of being the main guy anymore.

[Hoops Czar]

I wonder whatever happened to all the goodie goodie two shoes parading around this forum wearing their Spurs goggles 24/7.

This team wasn't that good and getting the #1 seed only made the heads swell even bigger in the upstairs.



Nobody gives the Spurs any respect.
We have the #1 seed and no one picks us.
The most underrated team in history:rollin
Tim Duncan is going to step it up in the playoffs.
The Spurs have so much championship experience, the Grizz have none.
BELIEEEEEEEEEEEVE!!!!!!!!

They had one shot at this series and they pissed it all away in game 1. 4 point lead with 58 seconds to go and they couldn't hold. They absolutely positively had to hold on to home court and they blew it.

[cobbler]

Hi...The Boston Celtics called. They'd like for you to call back Kevin Garnett.

Kareem might have a thing or two to say about that as well.

[TJastal]

I wonder whatever happened to all the goodie goodie two shoes parading around this forum wearing their Spurs goggles 24/7.

This team wasn't that good and getting the #1 seed only made the heads swell even bigger in the upstairs.



Nobody gives the Spurs any respect.
We have the #1 seed and no one picks us.
The most underrated team in history:rollin
Tim Duncan is going to step it up in the playoffs.
The Spurs have so much championship experience, the Grizz have none.
BELIEEEEEEEEEEEVE!!!!!!!!

They had one shot at this series and they pissed it all away in game 1. 4 point lead with 58 seconds to go and they couldn't hold. They absolutely positively had to hold on to home court and they blew it.

We couldn't risk Manu getting hurt in that meaningless game 1 of the playoffs, though. Can't blame Pop for this one, tough loss but just gotta chalk it up to to bad luck & circumstances.

[20beastie45]

People that claim Spurstalk posters are dumb are......well.....dumb.

Great post Spurstalk members!

[TE]

The Better team in this series was Memphis.


Had the Spurs not been so unfortunate with Timmy's and Manu's injury, Pop's tinkering with the rotations, and not integrating Tiago into the lineup, this series would have been won by the Spurs in 6.

Sometimes the ball has to bounce ones way and sometimes you have to make incredibly tough shots to be successful. Factor that, with the Spurs lapses, with Memphis scrubs stepping up, and you get what we saw.

[jag]

MEM was the better team for the series, they weren't the better team and this arguing isn't changing anyone's mind. Spurs played like shit and it wasn't just MEM.

Memphis was the better team for the series. Memphis is currently the better team. You're in the minority thinking the Spurs are actually a better team than the Grizz.

If you were a coach and you had to pick between the Spurs or Grizz roster to take you to the Finals, you'd be smart to pick the team that can play defense. That's the better team. That's the team with the best shot to win it all.

[TJastal]

Memphis was the better team for the series. Memphis is currently the better team. You're in the minority thinking the Spurs are actually a better team than the Grizz.

If you were a coach and you had to pick between the Spurs or Grizz roster to take you to the Finals, you'd be smart to pick the team that can play defense. That's the better team. That's the team with the best shot to win it all.

It's debatable whether Memphis is the better "team", given Pop's steady decline in decision making that kind of mushroomed in the last week of the regular season & into the playoffs. I'll grant you that if you include Pop as part of "the team" yes the grizz were the better team. If you don't include the coaching aspect and give the spurs a somewhat coherent & intelligent coach then the spurs suddenly look a whole helluva lot better IMO.

[temujin]

Hollins was smart to tank, while Popovich played the starters in irrelevant games to get HCA.
Enjoy HCA, pop!

Memphis will be booted by OKC in 5.
Easily.
Pushing around Perkins wil not be a easy for Zandolph.

[temujin]

It's debatable whether Memphis is the better "team", given Pop's steady decline in decision making that kind of mushroomed in the last week of the regular season & into the playoffs. I'll grant you that if you include Pop as part of "the team" yes the grizz were the better team. If you don't include the coaching aspect and give the spurs a somewhat coherent & intelligent coach then the spurs suddenly look a whole helluva lot better IMO.

So that "euro douche with no post game" is your avatar now?

:lol:lol:lol

[jag]

It's debatable whether Memphis is the better "team", given Pop's steady decline in decision making that kind of mushroomed in the last week of the regular season & into the playoffs. I'll grant you that if you include Pop as part of "the team" yes the grizz were the better team. If you don't include the coaching aspect and give the spurs a somewhat coherent & intelligent coach then the spurs suddenly look a whole helluva lot better IMO.

If I want to win in the postseason i'm taking the team with a skilled 7'1" center, a PF that dominates the low block and an elite wing defender.

I'm not going to sit here and say the Grizz are dynasty bound, i'm simply saying they are currently better than the Spurs. That should be fairly obvious at this point.

[TJastal]

So that "euro douche with no post game" is your avatar now?

:lol:lol:lol

I made those comments back in 2009 before I'd ever even seen Splitter play. Really I was more annoyed at the fact that the guy was taking so long to make a decision. As it turns out, he probably should have just stayed in Europe for as much as Pop played him this year.

[TJastal]

If I want to win in the postseason i'm taking the team with a skilled 7'1" center, a PF that dominates the low block and an elite wing defender.

I'm not going to sit here and say the Grizz are dynasty bound, i'm simply saying they are currently better than the Spurs. That should be fairly obvious at this point.

The only obvious thing is Pop is a fool who can't coach his way out of a paper bag.

[jag]

The only obvious thing is Pop is a fool who can't coach his way out of a paper bag.

It wasn't obvious that the Grizz have a better roster for defending opposing teams?

[TJastal]

It wasn't obvious that the Grizz have a better roster for defending opposing teams?

I guess we'll get to see your theory in action when they play against the revamped thunder roster.

[jag]

I guess we'll get to see your theory in action when they play against the revamped thunder roster.

What theory?

Out of the Spurs and Grizz, which team is better defensively?

[TJastal]

What theory?

Out of the Spurs and Grizz, which team is better defensively?

This spurs team had the pieces to match up defensively with the grizz but either pissed them away (Hairston/Mahinmi) or didn't play them (Green/Splitter)

If they were on equal footing defensively, suddenly those gluteus loosen up, guys aren't panicking, and shots start to fall. Popovich put that team in a position to fail defensively time and time again. That's why I refuse to subscribe to your point of view.

[Oh, Gee!!]

I guess we'll get to see your theory in action when they play against the revamped thunder roster.

Hey, homer. The spurs just got their asses handed to them and you think its up for defeat whether the grizz are better than the spurs?

[TJastal]

Hey, homer. The spurs just got their asses handed to them and you think its up for defeat whether the grizz are better than the spurs?

Hey bro, if you're gonna stick your 2 cents in, you should probably read more than the last couple replies in the thread. ;)

[Oh, Gee!!]

This spurs team had the pieces to match up defensively with the grizz but either pissed them away (Hairston/Mahinmi) or didn't play them (Green/Splitter)

If they were on equal footing defensively, suddenly those gluteus loosen up, guys aren't panicking, and shots start to fall. Popovich put that team in a position to fail defensively time and time again. That's why I refuse to subscribe to your point of view.

And if frogs had wings they'd never bump their asses when they jump. I love these pointless arguments: if this was 2003, the spurs would wipe the floor with the grizz. If the spurs had this or that guy, they would have won. If they had just played better, they would have won. If they would have outscored the grizz during four games, they would have won the series.

[jag]

Hey bro, if you're gonna stick your 2 cents in, you should probably read more than the last couple replies in the thread. ;)

He'd be better off not doing so, tbh.

Pop has handled this season like he's the bastard child of Don Nelson and D'Antoni. But put that all aside for 30 seconds, if you're mentally capable, and take into consideration that Memphis has better personnel for playing defense. D wins championships. This shit isn't complicated.

[TJastal]

And if frogs had wings they'd never bump their asses when they jump. I love these pointless arguments: if this was 2003, the spurs would wipe the floor with the grizz. If the spurs had this or that guy, they would have won. If they had just played better, they would have won. If they would have outscored the grizz during four games, they would have won the series.

So if Pop trotted out all his scrubs (not just his favorite ginger) and benched Manu for the entire series to give his elbow even more rest and so forth... well you see where I'm going wtih this.

How many coaching blunders would it take for you to concede that it might have something to do with how the team ultimately measures up in the end?

[jag]

I was willing to argue all day with DPG because he's known for bringing solid takes. But i'll be damned if i sit here and argue with TJastal. At his best, he's bad. At his worst, he rivals Fabbs.

[TJastal]

He'd be better off not doing so, tbh.

Pop has handled this season like he's the bastard child of Don Nelson and D'Antoni. But put that all aside for 30 seconds, if you're mentally capable, and take into consideration that Memphis has better personnel for playing defense. D wins championships. This shit isn't complicated.

I'd have agreed with you a decade ago but defense > all isn't the formula for success nowadays. The old days of 68-65 slugfests are over. You need to have scoring too.

That's not to say defense is not important, but your acting like it's everything which is just not true anymore.

The spurs had the personnel to match up to the grizzlies defensively but didn't use that personnel, which put them in a big hole all series long defensivley. Which caused guys to tighten up offensively, and start clanking shots, like a domino effect. That's the way I see it anyway, you're free to hold onto your "simplified" outlook.

[TJastal]

I was willing to argue all day with DPG because he's known for bringing solid takes. But i'll be damned if i sit here and argue with TJastal. At his best, he's bad. At his worst, he rivals Fabbs.

:lmao :rollin

[jag]

The Grizzlies had both a better offense, and a better defense. The fact that they actually have players capable of playing lockdown D is very telling when you stack them up against the Spurs.

[Oh, Gee!!]

So if Pop trotted out all his scrubs (not just his favorite ginger) and benched Manu for the entire series to give his elbow even more rest and so forth...

But pop didn't do that. We played them straight up for the most part and we were beaten. I guess you could also wonder how the series would have turned out if this was the 1990's and the spurs were the chicago bulls. All the "ifs and buts" don't matter when we all saw this series unfold, and we all saw the grizz rise to the occassion.

[TJastal]

The Grizzlies had both a better offense, and a better defense. The fact that they actually have players capable of playing lockdown D is very telling when you stack them up against the Spurs.

Regular season

SA scored 103.68 ppg, gave up 97.98
Grizz scored 99.94 ppg, gave up 97.6

Certainly appears the spurs are pretty close to the grizz in terms of defense (less than a half a point separation). And that's WITH the ginger logging big minutes.

[jag]

Regular season

SA scored 103.68 ppg, gave up 97.98
Grizz scored 99.94 ppg, gave up 97.6

Certainly appears the spurs are pretty close to the grizz in terms of defense (less than a half a point separation). And that's WITH the ginger logging big minutes.

You should post ppg, ppg allowed and FG % allowed for the playoffs.

I can't believe you're actually arguing which team is better defensively.

I'm not gonna do it.

[TJastal]

But pop didn't do that. We played them straight up for the most part and we were beaten. I guess you could also wonder how the series would have turned out if this was the 1990's and the spurs were the chicago bulls. All the "ifs and buts" don't matter when we all saw this series unfold, and we all saw the grizz rise to the occassion.

We're having an abstract argument here. If you wanna put your 2 cents in you have to play along. We all know what Pop did you don't need to keep regurgitating that fact. :sleep

[TE]

Regular season

SA scored 103.68 ppg, gave up 97.98
Grizz scored 99.94 ppg, gave up 97.6

Certainly appears the spurs are pretty close to the grizz in terms of defense (less than a half a point separation). And that's WITH the ginger logging big minutes.



You should account for the second half of the regular season. That'll be more indicative.

[TJastal]

You should post ppg, ppg allowed and FG % allowed for the playoffs.

I can't believe you're actually arguing which team is better defensively.

I'm not gonna do it.

If you don't think regular season statistics are meaningful to this discussion okay fine were done arguing then.

[ManuTastic]

Time to do a complete rebuild. Offer Tim the option of either staying for the rebuild or a buyout if he wants to be on a contender. Trade Manu for someone who can be a good piece for the future, see what you can get for Tony but don't pull the trigger unless it's a nice package, and then give Bonner and Jefferson all the minutes they want to lead the team to a 30 win season and the chance to draft one of the great crop of forwards coming out in the 2012 draft. I really hope this is a 20-win (or equivalent in the case of a shortened season) team next year; there is no reason to screw around and procrastinate with rebuilding this team.

I'd agree with most of this. I would offer Manu the same deal as Tim, out of respect; but frankly I think Manu would want to go to a contender and wouldn't feel bad about being traded off of a rebuilding project.
Trade for picks, rebuild. I'd keep Neal, Hill and Splitter, everyone else is a trade chip.
And it's time for Pop to go, which is probably fine with him. Hasn't he already said he leaves with Tim?

Thanks for a fabulous run, Tim, Tony, and Manu. I love you all. :flag:
:lobt::lobt::lobt::lobt:

[TJastal]

I'd agree with most of this. I would offer Manu the same deal as Tim, out of respect; but frankly I think Manu would want to go to a contender and wouldn't feel bad about being traded off of a rebuilding project.
Trade for picks, rebuild. I'd keep Neal, Hill and Splitter, everyone else is a trade chip.
And it's time for Pop to go, which is probably fine with him. Hasn't he already said he leaves with Tim?

Thanks for a fabulous run, Tim, Tony, and Manu. I love you all. :flag:
:lobt::lobt::lobt::lobt:

Ginger has another 3 years left on his contract. I can't see Pop leaving until he fulfills his personal mission to transform Matt Bonner into Robert Horry.

[Oh, Gee!!]

If you don't think regular season statistics are meaningful to this discussion okay fine were done arguing then.

It probably wouldn't be fair to compare the head-to-head stats from this playoff series and their regular season meetings I suppose?

[EVAY]

Congratulations, Memphis. Your team played better basketball than ours did for more time.

You were obviously well prepared by your coach, you had a well conceived game plan defensively, and you executed that game plan with great discipline.

You deserve the win. Enjoy.

[SA210]

:pop::pctoss

That is all

[SA210]

The Grizz were better built and trained to win against the Spurs than the Spurs were to win against the Grizz.

The Spurs were built to do well in the regular season, and in the playoffs you could see Pop trying to patch in the old style inside out game and it didn't work. Ginobili's injury had a role, but all in all the Spurs are no exception to the rule that you dance with the one that brought you, and the inside out game did not bring the Spurs to the playoffs. Tim was not relied upon during the season to win games. Tiago was not relied upon to do anything. Suddenly we start relying on them as if Tim is a secret weapon.

I really do not think there was anything this team could have done with the players they had, other than play Tiago more, to get them to the ring. They were, at best, a WCF team but no way they get out of it.

I have thoroughly enjoyed watching Tim play since he was drafted and even in college. The problem with greats like Tim is that we see them in their waning years and those who don't really know start questioning just how great they were to begin with. For that reason, I hope Tim does his retirement tour next year and enjoys his health, his kids and his wife wherever he chooses to live. He's a class act just like Dave and deserves no less.

I hope Kobe dies in a grease fire. :) j/k

:lol

[Harry Callahan]

Arguing completely subjective things, like "the spurs are more talented", is laughable.

No joke, it's what I saw from Suns fans for years.

JAG is right. If you took Zach Randolph and switch him with Duncan, SA wins this series. Sad but true.

TD is 35 YEARS OLD. That is the key thing. SA did a great job in the RS, but their front court as a group was not very good. End of story.

[Harry Callahan]

I'd have agreed with you a decade ago but defense > all isn't the formula for success nowadays. The old days of 68-65 slugfests are over. You need to have scoring too.

That's not to say defense is not important, but your acting like it's everything which is just not true anymore.

The spurs had the personnel to match up to the grizzlies defensively but didn't use that personnel, which put them in a big hole all series long defensivley. Which caused guys to tighten up offensively, and start clanking shots, like a domino effect. That's the way I see it anyway, you're free to hold onto your "simplified" outlook.

SA was an average defensive team this year. Gone are the days of hard fouls, contested jump shots, and strong perimeter defense preventing threes. They couldn't stop anybody and this has been an issue for awhile.

The improved offensive stats were cancelled by the porous defense.

Popovich knows how to coach a championship level team and he always emphasized D. The players of this roster could not play it well enough and Pop got away from demanding great defense. They paid the price in the end with a very weak finish.

[pjjrfan]

The grizz were the better team and I think they were built to compete against the Lakers and Boston. Not the Spurs and that is one reason the Grizz had no fear of them.

[TJastal]

JAG is right. If you took Zach Randolph and switch him with Duncan, SA wins this series. Sad but true.

TD is 35 YEARS OLD. That is the key thing. SA did a great job in the RS, but their front court as a group was not very good. End of story.

If Duncan had Gasol watching his back and taking care of the paint instead of one of the turd towers I really don't think Randolph goes off for 20/10 every game.

But that's just the way I think, using common sense.