Curious what the left wing of this forum thinks about this...

[NeoConIV]

JTF-GTMO-JDOG-CO 19 JAN 03
MEMORANDUM FOR All personnel, JDOG
SUBJECT: Camp Delta Interim SOP Modification: Inspecting/Handling Detainee Korans
Standard Operating Procedure (SOP)
1. General. The purpose of this SOP is to provide guidance and set specific procedures for the handling and inspecting of detainee Korans.
2. Intent. To ensure the safety of the detainees and MPs while respecting the cultural dignity of the Korans thereby reducing the friction over the searching the Korans. JTF-GTMO personnel directly working with detainees will avoid handling or touching the detainee’s Koran whenever possible. When military necessity does require the Koran to be search, the subsequent procedures will be followed.
3. Inspection.
a. The MP informs the detainee that the Chaplain or a Muslim interpreter will inspect Koran. If the detainee refuses the inspection at any time, the noncompliance is reported to the Detention Operations Center (DOC) and logged appropriately by the block NCO.
b. The Koran will not be touched or handled by the MP.
c. The Chaplain or Muslim interpreter will give instructions to the detainee who will handle the Koran. He may or may not require a language specific interpreter.
d. The inspector is examining so as to notice an unauthorized items, markings, or any indicators that raises suspicion about the contents of the Koran.
e. The inspector will instruct the detainee to first open the one cover with one hand while holding the Koran in the other thus exposing the inside cover completely.
f. The inspector instructs the detainee to open pages in an upright manner (as if reading the
Koran). This is a random page search and not every page is to be turned. Pages will be turned slowly enough to clearly see the pages.
g. The inspector has the detainee show the inside of the back cover of the Koran.
DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE
JOINT TASK FORCE GUANTANAMO
HEADQUARTERS, JOINT DETENTION OPERATION GROUP (JDOG)
GUANTANAMO BAY, CUBA APO AE 09360
JTF-GTMO-JDOG-CO
SUBJECT: Camp Delta Interim SOP Modification: Inspecting/Handling Detainee Korans
Standard Operating Procedure (SOP)
h. The detainee is instructed to show both ends of the Koran while the book is closed so that inspector can note the binding while closed paying attention to abnormal contours or protrusions associated with the binding. The intent is to deduce if anything may be in the binding without forcing the detainee to expose the binding, which may be construed as culturally insensitive or
offensive given the significance of the Koran.
i. How the detainee reacted, observation by other detainees, and other potentially relevant observations will be annotated appropriately on the block significant activities sheet as well as staff journal.
4. Handling.
a. Clean gloves will be put on in full view of the detainees prior to handling.
b. Two hands will be used at all times when handling the Koran in manner signaling respect and reverence. Care should be used so that the right hand is the primary one used to manipulate any part of the Koran due to the cultural association with the left hand. Handle the Koran as if it
were a fragile piece of delicate art.
c. Ensure that the Koran is not placed in offensive areas such as the floor, near the toilet or sink, near the feet, or dirty/wet areas.
5. Removal.
a. Korans should be left in the cell as a general rule (save in MSU), even when a detainee is moved to another cell or block. In principal, every cell (except MSU) will have a Koran “assigned” to it.
b. If a Koran must be removed at the direction the CJDOG, the detainee library personnel or Chaplain will be contacted to retrieve and properly store the Koran in the detainee library. The request for the librarian/Chaplain, as well as the retrieval itself, will be logged appropriately.
c. If the Chaplain, librarian, or Muslim interpreter, within the needs of the situation, cannot
remove the Koran, then the MP may remove the Koran after approved by the DOC (who notes
this in the MP Blotter) IAW the following procedures:
1) Clean gloves will be put on in full view of the detainees prior to handling
2
JTF-GTMO-JDOG-CO
SUBJECT: Camp Delta Interim SOP Modification: Inspecting/Handling Detainee Korans
Standard Operating Procedure (SOP)
2) Two hands will be used at all times when handling the Koran in manner signaling respect and reverence.
3) Place a clean, dry, detainee towel on the detainee bed and then place the Koran on top of the clean towel in a manner, which allows it to be wrapped without turning the Koran over at any time in a reverent manner. Ensure that the Koran is not placed in offensive areas such as the
floor, near the toilet or sink, near the feet, or dirty/wet area when doing this activity.
d. How the detainee reacted, observation by other detainees, and other potentially relevant observations will be annotated appropriately on the block significant activities sheet as well as staff journal.
e. The Koran shall be returned to the librarian, Chaplain, or DOC (in that order).
f. Exception: Detainee in MSU may have a Koran if specifically authorized by a 508-1 or the Level 5 Block Entitlement Form. Once detainee leaves MSU, the same handling/removing policies and procedures remain in effect.
6. Korans are the property of the U.S. Government and as such will remain in the cells only to be removed at the JDOG Commander’s decision.
7. For further information or clarification, please contact the JDOG DOC @ 3239.
3

[mookie2001]

7. For further information or clarification, please contact the JDOG DOC @ 3239.
3

sounds easy

[Nbadan]

At least 5 cases of documented Koran abuse has been confirmed by the Pentagon - not the Washington Post or NY Times. Seems to me that the WH is trying to pass the buck again to a 'few bad apples' while it's intelligence wing gets away again without ever being seriously questioned or investigated about interogation policy.

[The Ressurrected One]

At least 5 cases of documented Koran abuse has been confirmed by the Pentagon - not the Washington Post or NY Times. Seems to me that the WH is trying to pass the buck again to a 'few bad apples' while it's intelligence wing gets away again without ever being seriously questioned or investigated about interogation policy.
It also documented 15 cases of Koran abuse by detainees...were they in collusion with the guards?

[Nbadan]

It also documented 15 cases of Koran abuse by detainees...were they in collusion with the guards?

People will do amazing things while being forcefully confined to 'stress positions' for hours a day.

[exstatic]

It also documented 15 cases of Koran abuse by detainees...were they in collusion with the guards?

The Animal House corollary applies in these cases: They can't do that to our pledges! Only we can do that to our pledges!

How they handle their holy book is between them and Allah. How we mishandle it, urinate on it, etc. becomes world news to billions sick of the arrogance of the Bush administration, their war, and their utter contempt for the rest of the world.

[Nbadan]

http://cagle.slate.msn.com/working/050607/sack.jpg

[The Ressurrected One]

Nancy Pelosi's most recent statement on the Gitmo situation, probably the most foolish statement by any public official in quite some time, brings it all into focus.

Pelosi called for the closing of the Guantanamo Bay detention center in order to give us "a clean slate in the Muslim world."

While that concept ("...a clean slate...") may have some applicability in therapy, there is no such thing as a "clean slate" in international relations, as anyone who has studied history for five minutes knows. And the idea of a clean slate with Muslims, a group with whom the west has clashed for something like ten centuries, is particularly ludicrous.

Some of the Muslims from whom Pelosi would like to receive a clean slate are still upset about the reconquest of Spain. And then there's the small matter of the existence of Israel.

Pelosi's comment also reveals the self-hating belief held by so many on the left that Muslim antagonism towards the U.S. is our fault. If only we would avoid stepping on the Koran, all would be well. Bill Clinton was also a "clean-slater," though he was too intelligent to put it that way. Clinton's foreign policy consisted largely of running around the world apologizing for past U.S. wrongs real and imagined, and trying to help Muslims in the Balkans and in territories occupied by Israel. But instead of a clean slate, Clinton bought us the rise of al Qaeda and ultimately 9/11.

Pelosi also fails to recognize that any brownie points we might conceivably gain by closing Gitmo would be lost the first time a Muslim (aided by the MSM and liberal Democrats like Pelosi or Nbadan) claimed that abuse was occurring at some other facility or locale. As has been said before, if Gitmo didn't exist, our enemies and critics would have to invent it, as they basically have.

On the morning of 9/11, this was a 50-50 nation politically. Since then, the Republicans have gained a clear upper hand. That's not because Americans are happy about what's happening in Iraq or overjoyed about our economy. It's because Americans realize that the Democratic party is not completely serious when it comes to fighting terrorism. Pelosi's comment shows that one of the party's leaders isn't serious at all.

[mookie2001]

On the morning of 9/11, this was a 50-50 nation politically. Since then, the Republicans have gained a clear upper hand.


1. i dont think many were thinking of politics

2. yes yes i agree that republicans have benefited and gained power from the worst attack in american history

[Cant_Be_Faded]

wow ressurected one has now completely convinced me that having two parties to represent the entire views of a nation is the best way to go.

Republican all the way baby! Neo con for life!

[The Ressurrected One]

1. i dont think many were thinking of politics
I said, since then...

I believe the Republican strategy for preventing future such attacks resonated with more Americans than does the Democratic approach of trying to understand and moderate our policy toward the Muslim world so they will stop hating us...

2. yes yes i agree that republicans have benefited and gained power from the worst attack in american history
Because it underscored where the failures of the Clinton administration of general liberal foreign policy lie.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Because it underscored where the failures of the Clinton administration of general liberal foreign policy lie.

thats actually a good point, i agree, clinton was too timid in his foreign policy

but the typical american takes that fact and goes 'well, democrats suck the only other option is republican'

and thats why our country is on the decline

[The Ressurrected One]

thats actually a good point, i agree, clinton was too timid in his foreign policy

but the typical american takes that fact and goes 'well, democrats suck the only other option is republican'

and thats why our country is on the decline
I won't argue there needs to be more ideological diversity in politics. However, given the two choices we have...Americans are clearly willing to accept the flaw of the Conservative agenda over the down-right dangerous agenda of the Liberals.

Here's another thought on the whole Guantanamo Bay kerfuffle and how it's been blown way beyond all proportion.

Does the Left give any thought to the possibility their hyperbolic bloviating over every little lapse of the Bush Administration is exactly why Administrations work so hard to keep things secret?

Would anyone be surprised if Guantanamo Bay were closed tomorrow and nobody knew what the fuck happened to all the detainees? That we'd learn somewhere down the road they were moved to one of Amnesty International's "secret prisons" on a deserted island somewhere in the middle of the Pacific Ocean where it would take the media and administration critics years to find them?

Hell, I'd be tempted to do just that if I were President Bush. I'd tell you all 600 detainees had been put back on the ground where we found them, given an apology, a liter of water, and a Koran, in Afghanistan, Iraq, or wherever and that's the last we saw of them.

In reality, they'd be in the exact same circumstance in a place where nobody knows...

[RandomGuy]

Personally I think a lot of the hullabaloo about this is just that: hullabaloo. This bit has been taken waaaay out of context and, for the most part, I have to side with the Ressurrected on this. The 5 "cases" of "koran mishandling" can well be construed as accidents for the most part and not indicative of some guided attempt to humiliate the detainees.

Having been in the military, I can say that we are not the monsters that the left tries to make us out to be, nor are we the saints that the right tries to make us out to be either.

What I WILL say is that soldiers tend to be some of the most conscientious people I have met and usually VERY professional, Marines doubly so. I would tend to believe that they were more respectful than the left is giving them credit for in this case.