John Hollinger: No one is calling the Spurs chokers.

[Isitjustme?]

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5110/5671757948_3b45f679f6_b.jpg

[Isitjustme?]

Let's not lose perspective of the world outside of this message board...

[Harry Callahan]

Let's be honest here, the Spurs winning 61 games in the RS this year was a miracle.

Tim Duncan and the guys played very well as a team and then their age bit them in the behind.

[TE]

Hollinger has a point.

[Andrew Bynum]

It's even worse. True champions who had a 60 win season couldn't even get past the eight seed let alone win a championship :lmao

[leemajors]

It's even worse. True champions who had a 60 win season couldn't even get past the eight seed let alone win a championship :lmao

they could have just missed the playoffs a couple years, too.

[kamikazi_player]

:lmao cool analysis

[IronMexican]

It really isn't a choke. Grizzlies are a good team.

[GoodOdor]

Spur fan always used to talk about how "Real" champions would never let something like that happened to DAL in 2007 happen to them....

So which one is it spur fans? are the spurs chokers just like DAL, or maybe DAL didn't choke in 07, but just ran into a brutal match up?

[Budkin]

It really isn't a choke. Grizzlies are a good team.

This. We all knew the Spurs record was fool's gold.

[leemajors]

Spur fan always used to talk about how "Real" champions would never let something like that happened to DAL in 2007 happen to them....

So which one is it spur fans? are the spurs chokers just like DAL, or maybe DAL didn't choke in 07, but just ran into a brutal match up?

they both lost, duh.

[Isitjustme?]

It really isn't a choke. Grizzlies are a good team.

Yeah, they're not chokers. Just a team that can't even get out of the first round.


Spur fan always used to talk about how "Real" champions would never let something like that happened to DAL in 2007 happen to them....


Hollinger is not a Spur fan bro. Try to keep up.

[lefty]

How the hell did the Spurs win 61 games?

[picc84]

Is anyone still trying to say Spurs were better team than Grizzlies? There is a better argument for the 07 Mavs being better than the Warriors than there is for the '11 Spurs being better than Memphis.

[lefty]

Is anyone still trying to say Spurs were better team than Grizzlies? There is a better argument for the 07 Mavs being better than the Warriors than there is for the '11 Spurs being better than Memphis.

Good point

As an ex-Sours fan, I agree

[DMC]

Spur fan always used to talk about how "Real" champions would never let something like that happened to DAL in 2007 happen to them....

So which one is it spur fans? are the spurs chokers just like DAL, or maybe DAL didn't choke in 07, but just ran into a brutal match up?
There's a difference: That was the best team Dallas ever fielded. The Spurs have consistently been a playoff team, but only a few times had a championship caliber squad. This year we were not a championship caliber squad.

Might as well condemn the Bulls for losing after MJ retired. Obviously they weren't the real deal.

[DJ Mbenga]

jvg saw it that way. even said they were lucky to win that many games and that should be celebrated.

[Vertical]

I guess Hollinger doesn't get out much

[DMC]

jvg saw it that way. even said they were lucky to win that many games and that should be celebrated.
He was right. Same with the Magic. With that trade mid season, all the new pieces, they were lucky to win anything. It takes a while to recover after that kind of surgery.

[skut_farkus]

A classy choke imho

[skut_farkus]

He was right. Same with the Magic. With that trade mid season, all the new pieces, they were lucky to win anything. It takes a while to recover after that kind of surgery.

speaking of surgery hows that new vagina treatin ya?

[DMC]

speaking of surgery hows that new vagina treatin ya?
You're mother is treating me well. Thanks for asking. She gurgles "hello", I think.

[Isitjustme?]

The Sixers lost in the first round in 1984 after winning 65 games and going 12-1 in the playoffs in 1983. No one calls them chokers tbh.

[skut_farkus]

I tell you what, im sure 25 years down the road we the people will forget this one also.

[Flux451]

Good point

As an ex-Sours fan, I agree

Bandwagoner, GTFO

[Venti Quattro]

So what do we call this case? A fluke from the skies?

[Isitjustme?]

No just a case of a team being nothing more than first round cannon fodder.

[ZB 512]

There's a difference: That was the best team Dallas ever fielded.


that Mavs team didnt even have a true point guard, just two combo guards, and their centers were DeSagana Diop and Erik Dampier....their coach was Avery Johnson who coached like a rookie against Don Nelson (who coincidently enough basically built the Mavs team that he was playing against)...anyway, i digress

[DMC]

that Mavs team didnt even have a true point guard, just two combo guards, and their centers were DeSagana Diop and Erik Dampier....their coach was Avery Johnson who coached like a rookie against Don Nelson (who coincidently enough basically built the Mavs team that he was playing against)...anyway, i digress

Ok, when were they better?

[endrity]

Ok, when were they better?

clearly, 2006

[Stamm32089]

Is anyone still trying to say Spurs were better team than Grizzlies? There is a better argument for the 07 Mavs being better than the Warriors than there is for the '11 Spurs being better than Memphis.

We were more talented overall, but head to head, they were better. I honestly believe that they were the only team that could've beaten us that year.

[Stamm32089]

clearly, 2006

False. The '07 Mavs would've raped the '06 Mavs.

[21_Blessings]

Ok, when were they better?

2003.

Dirk was shitting all over the Spurs before he got injured. Just another lucky break by San Antonio.

1999-*. 2003-Dirk injury. 2005-Lakers rebuilding. 2007 - Donaghy/Stu Jackson schemes.

[ZB 512]

Ok, when were they better?

2003: Dirk had Nash, Finley, and Don Nelson

2011: This team is better than the 07 team (especially if Caron wouldnt have gotten injured). Even without Caron, it's the best overall DEFENSIVE team in the Dirk era. They have the two best centers in the Dirk era (first time Dirk has played with an above average center). They have a quality coach, who can actually play chess instead of checkers, and a true point guard floor general which allows them to put Terry in a more natural role.

[Axe Murderer]

This year we were not a championship caliber squad.


To guys like me, m>s, and DD who saw through that phony Run n' Gun shit all season, yet SpurFan scoffed us saying that the only team that could beat them was the Lakers.

But, of course, now once the Spurs actually do lose it was obvious all along they weren't contenders:rolleyes

you're not getting out of this, you're eating your shit sandwichPERIOD

[TampaDude]

The Spurs didn't choke...if they had been up 3 games to 1 and then lost in 7, it would've been a choke...the Grizzlies were just better...anyone who watched the series could see that clearly. Seeding doesn't matter much in the West...any team 1 thru 8 can beat any other team...the first round showed us that.

[DMC]

clearly, 2006

We are talking about 2006... :wakeup

[DMC]

To guys like me, m>s, and DD who saw through that phony Run n' Gun shit all season, yet SpurFan scoffed us saying that the only team that could beat them was the Lakers.

But, of course, now once the Spurs actually do lose it was obvious all along they weren't contenders:rolleyes

you're not getting out of this, you're eating your shit sandwichPERIOD

Spur fan isn't a collective entity. You can treat it as such, but then you have to accept that you will be lumped in with the other fans of your team as well.

There were plenty of people saying the Spurs were not built for a championship. You probably won't find those takes in the troll threads however.

You can imagine it how you wish, whatever makes your online experience more entertaining. The facts are there for anyone to see if they cared to research.

[cobbler]

The Spurs didn't choke...if they had been up 3 games to 1 and then lost in 7, it would've been a choke...the Grizzlies were just better...anyone who watched the series could see that clearly. Seeding doesn't matter much in the West...any team 1 thru 8 can beat any other team...the first round showed us that.

Having the best record in the league until the last day of the season. Losing HCA in about 20 mins to an 8th seed that PUBLICLY ACKNOWLEDGED they tanked to get you? It most definetly is a choke and with a major slap in the face with it. :lol

[TampaDude]

Having the best record in the league until the last day of the season. Losing HCA in about 20 mins to an 8th seed that PUBLICLY ACKNOWLEDGED they tanked to get you? It most definetly is a choke and with a major slap in the face with it. :lol

It can't be a choke, dude...you actually have to be leading the series in order to choke. :lol

[Axe Murderer]

Spur fan isn't a collective entity. You can treat it as such, but then you have to accept that you will be lumped in with the other fans of your team as well.

There were plenty of people saying the Spurs were not built for a championship. You probably won't find those takes in the troll threads however.

You can imagine it how you wish, whatever makes your online experience more entertaining. The facts are there for anyone to see if they cared to research.

Sure but how many Spurfans realistically thought they were gonna lose to Memphis before the series? There were some Spurfans out there who knew this team didn't have what it takes, but they didn't expect them to lose in the 1st round.

If you had to be $500 on either SA or Memphis before the series, were you really gonna put the money on Memphis?

Same thing with the Dallas series in 07. Either both teams choked, or neither choked.

[ChrisRichards]

Guys, this is a choke plain and simple. When Lebron and the Cavs lost to the Magic or Celtics it was a choke, but here we have a 1st seed that lost to an 8th seed and its not a choke?

[Axe Murderer]

Guys, this is a choke plain and simple. When Lebron and the Cavs lost to the Magic or Celtics it was a choke, but here we have a 1st seed that lost to an 8th seed and its not a choke?

i don't care if its a choke or not. (Choke is thrown around so loosely around here, I'm not even sure what exactly it means tbh)

My point is that there is nothing different than the Spurs series and the 07 Mavs series. Both teams ran into two teams that gave them matchup nightmares that exposed their weakness while outplaying them from the start.

You can't say one choked and the other didn't.

[Muser]

i don't care if its a choke or not. (Choke is thrown around so loosely around here, I'm not even sure what exactly it means tbh)

My point is that there is nothing different than the Spurs series and the 07 Mavs series. Both teams ran into two teams that gave them matchup nightmares that exposed their weakness while outplaying them from the start.

You can't say one choked and the other didn't.

Agreed, sadly.

[JamStone]

Agreed that it wasn't a choke and it was more a matter of Memphis just playing better and having a favorable match-up against the Spurs. But I disagree with Hollinger's explanation/reasoning why it's not considered a choke.

If that were the case, then the New England Patriots didn't choke in Super Bowl XLII.

[BlackSwordsMan]

I promise I wasn't gonna cry but john fuckin hollinger did it. :cry

[cobbler]

i don't care if its a choke or not. (Choke is thrown around so loosely around here, I'm not even sure what exactly it means tbh)

My point is that there is nothing different than the Spurs series and the 07 Mavs series. Both teams ran into two teams that gave them matchup nightmares that exposed their weakness while outplaying them from the start.

You can't say one choked and the other didn't.

:toast

[clambake]

pretty funny trying to compare a 3 star team failures to a 1 star team failures.

[namlook]

The Spurs didn't choke...if they had been up 3 games to 1 and then lost in 7, it would've been a choke...the Grizzlies were just better...

The Grizz were better in this series because the Spurs wilted when it mattered. The Spurs were clearly the better team all season and it wasn't even close. The Grizz didn't even have Gay and they still manhandled the Spurs. That's a choke.

[ChrisRichards]

My point is that there is nothing different than the Spurs series and the 07 Mavs series. Both teams ran into two teams that gave them matchup nightmares that exposed their weakness while outplaying them from the start.

You can't say one choked and the other didn't.
well i agree with you there. imo both teams choked. big time.

[baseline bum]

Of course it's a choke. How many times did the Spurs shit the bed in the fourth quarter this series, not to mention the last month of the regular season?

[ChrisRichards]

Of course it's a choke. How many times did the Spurs shit the bed in the fourth quarter this series, not to mention the last month of the regular season?
Precisely.

Its not like the Spurs were getting blown out. The Spurs always HAD a chance to close it out but the Grizzlies got the best out of them when it mattered the most.

[Killakobe81]

they could have just missed the playoffs a couple years, too.

Yep, yall should know.... even that worked out... we got bynum because of it ...you guys got duncan and Robinson the last time you tried it ...

You guys have 2 playoff victories to show for a great season ...

[sefant77]

2003.

Dirk was shitting all over the Spurs before he got injured. Just another lucky break by San Antonio.


this.

And meeting the Nets in the Finals. Without that injury the Mavs get their ring allready in 2003. Too bad.

And why are the 11 Grizzlies better than the 07 Warriors? The Warriors had a great late season run to push into the #8 spot und went red-hot in the playoffs. And it was a horrible guard matchup for the Mavs, same with the bigmen matchup for the Spurs.

It was the same "choke job". I prefer to say "bad/worst possible matchup and matchup importance >>> seeding

[DMC]

When you are ousted in the 1st round, you didn't choke, you were exposed. Choking happens at a much higher level.

[Axe Murderer]

When you are ousted in the 1st round, you didn't choke, you were exposed. Choking happens at a much higher level.

I agree with this.

San Antonio went 2-2 vs Memphis, Dallas went 0-3 against Golden State in 2007 (only team in the NBA they didn't beat atleast once).

So SA's overall record shouldn't matter when they play Memphis, they went .500 against Memphis and 59-19 against the rest of the league. Only the .500 record matters.

Same with Dallas, they went 67-12 against the rest of the NBA but were 0-3 against GS and that's the only record that matters. That's why I don't see these as huge upsets.

I'm pretty surprised we don't see more 1 vs 8 upsets

[cobbler]

1st seed with HCA losing to an 8th without their best player is a choke anyway you spin it. In fact, it's a choke, gag, and vomit.

[Isitjustme?]

1st seed with HCA losing to an 8th without their best player is a choke anyway you spin it. In fact, it's a choke, gag, and vomit.

Unfortunately for you, no one thinks so.

[WildcardManu]

Bad mismatch, plain and simple.

[Giuseppe]

Anytime you give a team that long in advance to plan it's trouble. They targeted you, and went to work 24/7 in preparation. They knew you were locked at 1 and a sitting duck.

[Isitjustme?]

Anytime you give a team that long in advance to plan it's trouble. They targeted you, and went to work 24/7 in preparation. They knew you were locked at 1 and a sitting duck.

The Spurs weren't that good. That was the real problem.

[cobbler]

Unfortunately for you, no one thinks so.

Maybe someday mom will let you out uf the fishbowl. :toast

[Giuseppe]

The Spurs weren't that good. That was the real problem.

But, Memphis was dialed in. Their entire on court demeanor was precise and dedicated. Hollins struck a fresh template and his team followed it to the letter, never deviating from it an iota. It was impressive.

Spurs were fine. You just got worked by Hollins who got a brainstorm sittin' around one night and implemented it.

The proof will be in the pudding here in this OKC series. If the Grizz come out helter skelter, same old shit, oriental fire drill then we'll know for sure.

[Isitjustme?]

But, Memphis was dialed in. Their entire on court demeanor was precise and dedicated. Hollins struck a fresh template and his team followed it to the letter, never deviating from it an iota. It was impressive.

Spurs were fine. You just got worked by Hollins who got a brainstorm sittin' around one night and implemented it.

The proof will be in the pudding here in this OKC series. If the Grizz come out helter skelter, same old shit, oriental fire drill then we'll know for sure.

Do you think the Spurs could have beaten OKC or LA?

[Giuseppe]

Do you think the Spurs could have beaten OKC or LA?

Considering the default of beating Memphis, sure. We're each operating in separate vacuums:::you at loss for the Spurs....me at victory for the Spurs. You're too vested to see past your total loss & grief. I'm not so shackled.

Blair would've come in handy Vs. Perkins. It would've been his spot, his moment.

Everything the Spurs tried, all their tricks, configurations and machinations were met at the level by Memphis. They were always one half step ahead. Every time the Spurs turned around the Grizz were there looking eye, it was nothing personal, strictly business, that detached coldness of assurance borne of preparation. That gets frustrating for a team used to little resistance to their choice protocol.

[Isitjustme?]

Perkins would have beat up Blair and took his lunch money.

[21_Blessings]

I'm pretty surprised we don't see more 1 vs 8 upsets

That's because most 1 seeds aren't massive bed shitting, chokers.

[Isitjustme?]

That's because most 1 seeds aren't massive bed shitting, chokers.

Transparent.

[Ghazi]

Considering the default of beating Memphis, sure. We're each operating in separate vacuums:::you at loss for the Spurs....me at victory for the Spurs. You're too vested to see past your total loss & grief. I'm not so shackled.

Blair would've come in handy Vs. Perkins. It would've been his spot, his moment.

Everything the Spurs tried, all their tricks, configurations and machinations were met at the level by Memphis. They were always one half step ahead. Every time the Spurs turned around the Grizz were there looking eye, it was nothing personal, strictly business, that detached coldness of assurance borne of preparation. That gets frustrating for a team used to little resistance to their choice protocol.

shaddupa

[Giuseppe]

Perkins would have beat up Blair and took his lunch money.

How do you think Kobe had to ask Vanessa for his again?

[Isitjustme?]

How do you think Kobe had to ask Vanessa for his again?

I don't understand the correlation.

[DMC]

I agree with this.

San Antonio went 2-2 vs Memphis, Dallas went 0-3 against Golden State in 2007 (only team in the NBA they didn't beat atleast once).

So SA's overall record shouldn't matter when they play Memphis, they went .500 against Memphis and 59-19 against the rest of the league. Only the .500 record matters.

Same with Dallas, they went 67-12 against the rest of the NBA but were 0-3 against GS and that's the only record that matters. That's why I don't see these as huge upsets.

I'm pretty surprised we don't see more 1 vs 8 upsets

The East is very weak from 4 through 8. It would be borderline impossible for a 1st seed to drop to an 8ith seed. Serious injuries would have to happen first.

So that automatically removes half of the chances.

I don't think the opportunity for these kinds of matchups come along that often. It happened with Dallas and then this year. A lot of teams have their match up nightmares against even bottom rung teams. The odds of it being an 8th vs the 1st are not very good.

I think if Manu and Tim do not get injured, Hollins does not tank to get the 8th seed.

[DMC]

Considering the default of beating Memphis, sure. We're each operating in separate vacuums:::you at loss for the Spurs....me at victory for the Spurs. You're too vested to see past your total loss & grief. I'm not so shackled.

Blair would've come in handy Vs. Perkins. It would've been his spot, his moment.

Everything the Spurs tried, all their tricks, configurations and machinations were met at the level by Memphis. They were always one half step ahead. Every time the Spurs turned around the Grizz were there looking eye, it was nothing personal, strictly business, that detached coldness of assurance borne of preparation. That gets frustrating for a team used to little resistance to their choice protocol.
Solid take. I think SA would lose to LA given the injuries however.

[Jacob1983]

It doesn't matter if the team that chokes has a ring or not, when you're the number 1 seed, you shouldn't lose to the 8th seed. If Hollinger says the Spurs aren't chokers then what about the 2004 Yankees or the 2010 Boston Bruins who blew 3-0 leads in a a best of 7 series?

[LnGrrrR]

You a-holes managed to bring up the 07 Pats AND last years Bruins in this thread. F all of you. :lol

[Venti Quattro]

You a-holes managed to bring up the 07 Pats AND last years Bruins in this thread. F all of you. :lol

lol :lmao

[Isitjustme?]

It doesn't matter if the team that chokes has a ring or not, when you're the number 1 seed, you shouldn't lose to the 8th seed. If Hollinger says the Spurs aren't chokers then what about the 2004 Yankees or the 2010 Boston Bruins who blew 3-0 leads in a a best of 7 series?

The Spurs didn't blow any big fourth quarter leads or blow a big lead in the series.

[Isitjustme?]

How do you think Kobe had to ask Vanessa for his again?

Still don't know what this guy is talking about.

[Giuseppe]

It's a joke, dummy.:rolleyes

[nowhereman523]

I guess a professional basketball writer can't be expected to keep track of the correct names of teams. Nuggets? I think he means Sonics.

[Tp9gospursgo]

If Tim hadn't of gone down we wouldnt have lost our confidence. we would've won in 6.

[TampaDude]

When you are ousted in the 1st round, you didn't choke, you were exposed. Choking happens at a much higher level.

^ this

[Giuseppe]

If

:lol

[TampaDude]

The Spurs don't have championship level defense like they used to. They've turned into the Suns...and we all know how many rings the Suns have... :lol

[ffadicted]

Nothing to do with choking and championships. Memphis just flat out played better, and are the better team, and just exposed all of the spurs' weaknesses. I don't think I've ever seen an 8th seed that's this good, they have so much fight in them, they're solid up front, they out-hussle everyone, and are extremely well coached. I expect memphis to give OKC a huge challenge this round.

Everyone is just either trolling or reading too much into it

[Jacob1983]

I was wrong about my posts about the Spurs choking against the Grizz. This Grizzlies team is scary and should be feared. And this Grizzlies team is way better than the 2006-2007 Warriors team in my opinion.

[DAF86]

I was wrong about my posts about the Spurs choking against the Grizz. This Grizzlies team is scary and should be feared. And this Grizzlies team is way better than the 2006-2007 Warriors team in my opinion.

Preparing the field just in case :lol

[rmt]

Hollinger might want to check out the records since the beginning of the year. Since Jan 1, MEM and SA have virtually the same record. Spurs had a verrry hot start, and MEM took a while to get going as they integrated so many new players - not your typical 1st and 8th seed.

Really enjoyed that MEM & OKC game last night - can MEM mentally recover from losing that big lead?

[Isitjustme?]

Hollinger might want to check out the records since the beginning of the year. Since Jan 1, MEM and SA have virtually the same record. Spurs had a verrry hot start, and MEM took a while to get going as they integrated so many new players - not your typical 1st and 8th seed.

Hollinger agrees with you dumbass.