Pistons Have Luck

[1Parker1]

Good luck seems to drive Pistons


By Tom Knott
THE WASHINGTON TIMES


Count luck as one of the attributes of the Pistons.
The Pistons do not prevail in Game 7 in Miami if Dwyane Wade is remotely healthy.
The Pistons do not prevail in Game 7 if Shaquille O'Neal is not limited because of a deep thigh bruise, if Damon Jones is not hobbled with a bruised heel and sprained ankle and if Eddie Jones is not playing with a bruised foot.
This is how it was with the Pistons in the NBA Finals last June. That series turned in favor of the Pistons following the knee injury to Karl Malone that merely exacerbated the tenuous physical condition of the Lakers, notably the sub-par status of Devean George and Derek Fisher at the time.







It is hard to brush out all these fortuitous circumstances in the rise of the Pistons. They are a solid team, no doubt. They commit themselves to the little functions that all too many teams neglect.
There was no better evidence of that than 6-foot-3 guard Chauncey Billups sneaking into the three-second lane and getting a put-back in the second half. That is something that happens in January against a dog-tired team playing on back-to-back nights. That never should have happened in Game 7 of the Eastern Conference finals against a team as experienced as the Heat.
But that is the Pistons. They have a tenacity about them. If you let them hang around instead of closing the door on them, you just might find yourself paying a dear price, as the Heat did.
But it never would have come down to a few plays at the end if Wade had not been slowed by a rib muscle injury that necessitated a painkilling injection before the game.
Wade finished with 20 points on 20 shot attempts, one rebound and five turnovers. It could be argued his decision to play undermined the cause of the Heat, except in the third quarter when he showed some semblance of competence.
Not that Heat coach Stan Van Gundy, the pizza parlor guy, had viable options besides playing Wade. It was what it was with this broken-down Heat team.
Shaq and Co. were extremely vulnerable, and the Pistons exploited it, as they did with the Lakers last June.
So let's not confuse the opportunism of the Pistons with greatness. Let's resist the obligation to shower superlatives on a team seeking to claim two championships in a row.
The Pistons are a good team, a solid team and all that. But they also are an extremely fortunate team.
They possibly would not even have advanced to the conference finals if the Pacers had been whole, if Jermaine O'Neal had not been saddled with a sprained right shoulder and if Ron Artest had been in the lineup.
Now the Pistons are looking to challenge Tim Duncan and the Spurs, looking to win over a few more skeptics.
It won't happen against the Spurs, even if Duncan is playing on two sore ankles. Just forget it. The Spurs play with the efficiency of the Pistons, only they are better at it. And unlike the Pistons, the Spurs do not come down with the occasional bout of anemia on offense.
Of course, because this series involves the Pistons, Duncan is liable to break both ankles in Game 1, Manu Ginobili is liable to get run over by the team bus and Tony Parker is liable to come down with scurvy.
Perhaps the Spurs should hire a professional food taster. You would hate to see the series decided on food poisoning.
That is just the way it is with the Pistons.
Their ascendancy comes with a big, fat asterisk, for strange things break their way, including the brawl of November.
The latest was Wade attempting to execute a crossover dribble in Game 5, as he has done a zillion times, only this time he strained a rib muscle, and that was the series.
Some teams just have all the luck.

http://washingtontimes.com/sports/20050608-122828-7245r.htm

[combs84]

Thats the biggest joke of an article i've ever read. Its in very poor taste.

[ZappaFan]

Wade was remotely healthy enough to play 43 minutes in game 7.

Lindsey Hunter had the exact same rib injury that Wade did, twice in fact, and never missed a game.

Rip had the same injury Shaq did, in his calf, and never missed a game. He certainly had a lot of pain to deal with and limited mobility, but he never used it as an excuse.

Injuries are part of the game. Team's that can't find a way to deal with it get what they deserve. The teams that beat them deserve what they get. Crying towels are issued in the locker room.

[duncan_21]

The truth hurts.

[ZappaFan]

The truth hurts.

Losing is what hurts. That's why the crying follows. :)

[Trooper 2112]

I just read the first two lines and stopped. I guess it's because he's from Washington and he has no other team to write about that's worth it. Hell, even luck couldnt save wizards or....the redskins :vomit

[combs84]

The truth hurts.


Actually it doesn't. We beat the best teams in the East to get here. We beat the best teams in the league last year to win a championship. And after we beat the Spurs, there will be some other excuse. Does it matter to some people? Probably but it certainly doesn't to me. We did everything that was asked of us to win a title. And did more so then the teams who eventually all lost. Its not a fluke, its not luck. And if you truly believe that it is, then i feel sorry for you.

[geerussell]

If the pistons had just come out of nowhere to the finals the luck theory might have some merit but they paid their dues and went through a progression just like most other championship teams.

50-win season, 2nd round playoff exit
50-win season, ECF playoff exit
50+ win season, upgrade coach and frontline, Finals Win
50+ win season, same coach/starting five, Return to finals.

That's a pattern of building on a foundation and being a real contender, not a flash in the pan... in much the same way that the Spurs have been right up near the top of their conference for several years. Solid talent, good coaching, good front office makes for some consistent success.

It takes luck to actually get the trophy but maintaining excellence over a number of years takes organization and skill.

[boutons]

Washington Times, financed by some asshole, Korean, money-grubbing "Christian" huckster of a "minister".

[2centsworth]

there's a lot of truth to that article, but that's why this series is so appealing. If Detroit can beat the spurs, the pistons will validate their last championship. Just like the spurs did when they won in '03, it validated their '99 championship.

However, this 3rd ring for the spurs will propell them into the discussion of being one of the all-time great teams. Of course, they will have to win 2 to 3 more but we spurs fans know that we may have one of the all-time great teams.

[duncan_21]

Actually it doesn't. We beat the best teams in the East to get here. We beat the best teams in the league last year to win a championship. And after we beat the Spurs, there will be some other excuse. Does it matter to some people? Probably but it certainly doesn't to me. We did everything that was asked of us to win a title. And did more so then the teams who eventually all lost. Its not a fluke, its not luck. And if you truly believe that it is, then i feel sorry for you.

I just said it because some of the early posters didn't acknowledge the fact that at least the injuries to the lakers last year and especially the heat this year greatly improved your chances this year.

I'm willing to admit that if dirk nowitzki was healthy in 2003 that the spurs might not make it to the nba finals. I just don't see any pistons fans acknowledging that fact. It's not a knock on the pistons they won to get here but you have to admit there is a chance things would be different with a healthy wade and shaq.

[beer_is_proof]

Now don't get us Piston's fans wrong. We are generally a good bunch of guys.

But don't go believing for a minute that the only thing that got the Pistons to the finals is luck!

Pain, passion, pride and perserverance count too!

Desire, Determination, and Defense count too!

Before this series is over you will learn.

Fear the Fro...

:fro

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

I just said it because some of the early posters didn't acknowledge the fact that at least the injuries to the lakers last year and especially the heat this year greatly improved your chances this year.

I'm willing to admit that if dirk nowitzki was healthy in 2003 that the spurs might not make it to the nba finals. I just don't see any pistons fans acknowledging that fact. It's not a knock on the pistons they won to get here but you have to admit there is a chance things would be different with a healthy wade and shaq.


But can't you say that about almost every team the loses in the playoffs?

If Sam Cassell is healthy maybe the Lakers don't even make it to the Finals last year..

[duncan_21]

Actually fear the fro's jump shot. That would scare anybody. :lol

[GrandeDavid]

I knew that article would piss off Pistons fan! Hey man, imagine all the shit we Spurs fans put up with from the outside-of-Texas media!

[2centsworth]

And after we beat the Spurs, there will be some other excuse. Does it matter to some people?

We don't make excuses down here, except for the occassional .04 which is an absolute joke. You guys win you will get all the praise in the world, because it will take a great team to beat this spurs team.

[duncan_21]

But can't you say that about almost every team the loses in the playoffs?

If Sam Cassell is healthy maybe the Lakers don't even make it to the Finals last year..

I agree. Luck is also involved . The spurs got some luck when horry missed that 3 pointer in the 2nd round against the lakers. If that goes in the spurs go home. Same with fisher's shot next year, if that shot doesn't go in, I believe the spurs win the championship.

[Experiment2100]

You know what they say, "better lucky than good."

[MadDog73]

But can't you say that about almost every team the loses in the playoffs?

If Sam Cassell is healthy maybe the Lakers don't even make it to the Finals last year..


Exactly. Which is why this article is sooooo stupid. Basically, this is the same shit that Spurs fans had to put up with after 1999(*), until 2003.

But, hey, why not put a big fat (*) on the Lakers' 2000 title. After all, Tim was hurt....

[nkdlunch]

:idiot Noone makes the finals by just luck

[td4mvp21]

That article is full of bull. The author just doesn't like the Pistons.

[combs84]

Beer is Proof, is that Hollywood Di? :) It sure sounds like ya!!

""We don't make excuses down here, except for the occassional .04 which is an absolute joke. You guys win you will get all the praise in the world, because it will take a great team to beat this spurs team.""

Same right here. This team isn't going down without a hell of a fight. I can guarentee that.

[MajicMan]

What if the Queen had balls? She would be the King. If this and if that, injuries are part of the game. Deal with it just like every other team. Miami had plenty of chance to close out that game. Detroit was jut more poised. You could say Miami choked. I'm a Laker fan and I have to give Detroit their props.

[Experiment2100]

Exactly. Which is why this article is sooooo stupid. Basically, this is the same shit that Spurs fans had to put up with after 1999(*), until 2003.



Not really even in 2003 the Spurs took flack for injuries to other teams. Those jerks at the Sporting News had a front page headline calling the Spurs Accidental Champions.

[1Parker1]

"But that is the Pistons. They have a tenacity about them. If you let them hang around instead of closing the door on them, you just might find yourself paying a dear price, as the Heat did."

This the thing that scares me most about the Pistons. They really know how to finish games down the stretch and have the ability to come back even when you have a lead...see Game 1 against them this year. We had a 21 pt lead in the 3rd and we barely won by 3 points at the end of the night.

Thing I'll give the Pistons credit for, they are a very mentally strong team---maybe even more so than the Spurs.

And hey, luck is part of every championship run, that's why you never know who's gonna with the trophy at the end. Games can come down to one miracle shot, one dream ending injury in the blink of an eye. It's sort of the appeal in playoff basketball.

[SpursWoman]

The truth hurts.


That article was crap....and the same kind of crap Spurs have been listening to since Phil's famous "*" remark.






Edit - sorry MadDog, I just saw your post. :)

[2centsworth]

Same right here. This team isn't going down without a hell of a fight. I can guarentee that.

unfortunatly for the pistons they don't have the horses to stop their ultimate fate, watch ing the spurs celebrate.

[Wreck281Shop]

unfortunatly for the pistons they don't have the horses to stop their ultimate fate, watch ing the spurs celebrate.

If that was two cents worth I want a penny back.

[1Parker1]

If that was two cents worth I want a penny back.

:lol

[May_The_Best_Team_Win]

That's right people, Fear Our Luck!

It's the only thing that has got us here....

NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[geerussell]

I think it's kind of funny how Spurs fan remembers .04 but suffers amnesia over the possession before that when a stumbling Duncan flung up a prayer to put the spurs up. That shot was pure luck at least on a par with the one Fisher hit... but of course it's skill when it happens to your guy and luck when it happens to theirs, right?


http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=240513024

SAN ANTONIO (AP) -- Tim Duncan threw the ball up, fell down and heard the cheers. From his hands and knees, he looked to the San Antonio bench with wide eyes, and asked, "Did it go in?" Told that it did, he ran to the sideline and was mobbed by teammates.

Also conveniently overlooked by Spurs fan is that it was only game five. There was still an opportunity to go out and come up big in the clutch on the road in game six but the Spurs couldn't get it done. All the focus is on game five, not the blown second chance in game six.

Of course the ever-lucky pistons, faced with a similar challenge down 3-2 to NJ last year manned up and got it done in game six on the road.

I guess it's lucky to be able to go out and win the elimination games on the road and the Spurs just didn't have that kind of "luck" last year.

Having followed the inevitable logic this far, let's just call a spade a spade. When you have a 2-0 series lead, losing four straight is a choke job. No luck involved.

[1Parker1]

I think it's kind of funny how Spurs fan remembers .04 but suffers amnesia over the possession before that when a stumbling Duncan flung up a prayer to put the spurs up. That shot was pure luck at least on a par with the one Fisher hit... but of course it's skill when it happens to your guy and luck when it happens to theirs, right?


Hey, we didn't write the article. Most of us Spurs fans agree that luck is part of the game and what makes it exciting.

PS. Thanks for bringing up the .4 sec business again :flipoff

[MajicMan]

I think it's kind of funny how Spurs fan remembers .04 but suffers amnesia over the possession before that when a stumbling Duncan flung up a prayer to put the spurs up. That shot was pure luck at least on a par with the one Fisher hit... but of course it's skill when it happens to your guy and luck when it happens to theirs, right?

They also forget luck is going to the lotto and picking up David Robinson. They also forget luck is going to the lotto and picking up Tim Duncan.
Tim's shot was as lucky as Fisher's. Fisher's is just a bit more spectacular because.04

[SpursWoman]

They also forget luck is going to the lotto and picking up David Robinson. They also forget luck is going to the lotto and picking up Tim Duncan.
Tim's shot was as lucky as Fisher's. Fisher's is just a bit more spectacular because.04


Genius, no one is forgetting anything. WE DIDN'T WRITE THAT ARTICLE. :lol

[SpursWoman]

Tim's shot was as lucky as Fisher's. Fisher's is just a bit more spectacular because.04


No one that I've ever heard said Tim's was either lucky, pure skill or otherwise, but regardless, his shot was rendered irrelevant by Fisher's no matter how awesome it was. And I say awesome because at the time we were losing with virtually no time left and it put us ahead...so yeah, we were pretty exstatic for a few fractions of a second. :fro

That's what pisses us off. Well that, and the physical improbability of actually making that shot in .40.

[baseline bum]

Man, that article is so stupid I'm not even going to go beyond the first paragraph. Everyone said the same shit about the Spurs in 2003.

[MajicMan]

Genius, no one is forgetting anything. WE DIDN'T WRITE THAT ARTICLE. :lol

I know you guys didn't write that article. If you guys want to talk about luck though, the rules state that you are able to catch and shoot with .04 left. So how do you figure that shot is improbable? The shot was reviewed and determined good. I'm just comparing different scenarios of luck to compare with what you consider luck. Luck is luck, not just the only way you want to see it.

[admack]

Not only Piston fans, but Spurs fans alike should discredit this guy's article. In reality he said that a sub-par team (LAKERS) with weak links (Devin George) beat the Spurs(then Champion Spurs) in a seven game series. That one player (Karl Malone) was the difference in beating the Spurs but not the Pistons. That is obsurd. Dont give me that lucky shot at the end thing either, because Tim Duncans fall-away jumper at the top of the key over Shaq wasnt the most practised shot in Timmy's arsenol I know.
Finally, I really do think that injuries come to the unprepared. The main reason why the Pistons dont have many injuries and especially bad ones is that they are well conditioned.
This guy gets paid to run his mouth but we as fans dont have to buy what he is selling.

[SpursWoman]

If you guys want to talk about luck though, the rules state that you are able to catch and shoot with .04 left. So how do you figure that shot is improbable?


999,999,999 times out of 1,000,000,000 no one will make that shot...especially not against the Spurs. And I say not against the Spurs because they are *above average* defensively. That's why I call it improbable.

I didn't say impossible, because obviously it is not. I said improbable. :)

[samikeyp]

Its also funny how geerussell and majicman lack the mental ability to realize not all Spurs fans think alike. Nobody here was saying the Pistons were lucky. It was a writer who has NOTHING to do with San Antonio. If you were here last year, and judging by your posts you weren't, most Spurs fans acknowledged the lucky shot by..wait for it...BOTH PLAYERS. The smart Spurs fans here on this board realized that the .4 game sucked but it should have never come down to that. But if fans like gee and majic want to keep making shit up, I guess we can't change that.

[samikeyp]

Finally, I really do think that injuries come to the unprepared.

Well said.

[geerussell]

the .4 game sucked but it should have never come down to that.

...and the 2 games before it sucked and the game that followed it sucked too... sixteen quarters of suckage it's amazing they didn't choke on it, oh wait they did.

[samikeyp]

no one is denying a choke job. that was my point. The .4 game was full of a lot of mistakes by the Spurs. Games don't come down to luck, they come down to skill. They did choke on it. If they would have adjusted their game when the Lakers changed theirs after going down 0-2, the Spurs could have easily won that series. They failed to execute and it cost them.

[MCS Magazine]

What if the Queen had balls? She would be the King.

LOL. Somebody listened to Rome today.

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

Let's take this opportunity to retire a few facts to the rafters.

1) .4 blew monkey nuts, but it happened.

2) Yes, the Spurs choked against the Lakers. Hedo, Horry, and Bruce couldn't buy a bucket.

3) The Lakers did not play like they did against the Spurs and a major part of that was Karl Malone. If you look at that Lakers team during the regular season the same story gets told. With Malone they looked like Champs, when he missed 15 games or so with the knee injury they sucked ass. Could the Pistons have won against a healthy Lakers squad last year? Maybe, but all the Detroit fans who would believe that they beat the same team that beat the Spurs would be dead wrong.

4)Debating history is blowing a dead moose. You can do it until you're blue in the face but you're not going to get change anything. Le'ts talk about the series at hand, as that is really far more interesting.

[MajicMan]

Omigod, just when we were talking about .04. I'm listening to xtra sports radio right now and a Spurs fan just called in saying Spurs got robbed last year. Crying about how it's humanly impossible and they got robbed big time. Dude was saying Spurs aren't saying much about it all the while he's crying about it. Shaking my head. Radio host rips him a new one and set him straight. Asked why not because rules state that it is possible and it was reviewed. LMAO just too much of a coincidence.

[SpursWoman]

Omigod, just when we were talking about .04. I'm listening to xtra sports radio right now and a Spurs fan just called in saying Spurs got robbed last year. Crying about how it's humanly impossible and they got robbed big time. Dude was saying Spurs aren't saying much about it all the while he's crying about it. Shaking my head. Radio host rips him a new one and set him straight. Asked why not because rules state that it is possible and it was reviewed. LMAO just too much of a coincidence.


Not impossible, improbable. :lol

Isn't it funny how it seems that a lot of the same random fans who call in to radio shows and make faces over Charles Barkley's shoulder on national TV, uncannily resemble those who get abducted and experimented on by aliens?


And no, mouse, I wasn't referring to people like Kori who cover sports for a living more or less....just random fans who's apparent purpose on earth is to embarrass mankind.

[JamStone]

Absolutely, the Pistons have had some lucky breaks the last two post seasons. Jason Kidd's injury, Jermaine's injury, Shaq's injury, Dwyane Wade's injury, Karl Malone's injury, Kobe's selfishness.

Absolutely, those were great breaks for the Pistons.

You need a little bit of luck along the way to a championship. You also need to be very good.

And, not to indict Spurs fans to say they subscribe to what that article wrote, BUT I don't hear anyone in the media saying the Spurs lucked out because Vlad Radmonovic and Rashard Lewis were injured in the Seattle series. Or, that Joe Johnson missed the first few games of the Phoenix series. Or, the fact that Tim Duncan made a near impossible shot himself to get the lead before the .4 Fisher shot. Or, way back in 2003, that Kenyon Martin had the flu in the series clincher. They don't talk about it, because at the end of the day, history will remember who won and lost, not the "NOTES" astericking the win or loss.

One thing to note, while all these teams are having injuries against the Pistons this time of year, the Pistons have remained "relatively" healthy, and the team takes a lot of pride in its strength and conditioning programs. Arnie Kandor, the Detroit Pistons strength and conditioning coach, is widely regarded in the NBA and in all of sports as one of the best in the business. Sometimes you make your own luck.