Do we still need a pure stopper?

[MmP]

After this series Im more convinced that we need another Bruce Bowen in our core. Not only because of stopping one specific player, but becuase we need a guy who inspires defense.

After watching old experienced Shane Battier making stops, drawing fouls, and hitting clutch threes made me miss Bruce a lot.

[Chomag]

It used to be this that was all that was needed for them, but now I think the Spurs need allot more thne just one stopper as this team's core ages.

[pjjrfan]

You got to have a stopper, either on the perimeter or in the paint, you got to have a guy who can get his own shot and score on anyone, neither of which this team had, they had some excellent team chemistry early in the year, but when Tim went down this team lost confidence and it showed in how they lost games. They gave away 3 games in a weeks period through bad decisions, shoddy play and just playing like rookies. And for the most part the culprits were Tony, Tim and Manu.

[Ross Parrot]

A lineup of Battier, Splitter, and Duncan would be great. Not only that but they need to get some real big guys who can hustle defensively and show for it. I just don't want to see Bonner or Richard Jefferson out there anymore.

[DMC]

In order to be contenders for a ring, they will have to acquire two other teams' best players. We can shuffle the middle of the road guys around the league all day and that won't make a difference in the end. Just as Boston and LA weren't contenders without the acquisitions of star players, neither will we be.

Tell me one team that has won a ring by just moving around non-franchise players when they didn't already have a solid nucleus.

Unfortunately that means pissing off fans when you dump people like Tony and Hill. However those fans will cheer up if you win games.

[Chomag]

In order to be contenders for a ring, they will have to acquire two other teams' best players. We can shuffle the middle of the road guys around the league all day and that won't make a difference in the end. Just as Boston and LA weren't contenders without the acquisitions of star players, neither will we be.

Tell me one team that has won a ring by just moving around non-franchise players when they didn't already have a solid nucleus.

Unfortunately that means pissing off fans when you dump people like Tony and Hill. However those fans will cheer up if you win games.

I'll have to agree with you. People don't seem to see that the current Spurs era is at the end. Boston is almost at the end of theirs, as well as LA. Maybe not this season but the next few are going to be about the younger teams that have been lurking in the backgroung and gearing up for their championship runs while the older core teams battled it out through the past few years. Like OKC Grizzlies, Chicago, and Heat. It's just how these things work.

The sooner spurs start their rebuild the sooner they can get back on track. They could start now while they have some pieces to move to speed up the recovery, or they could just wait untill the main core retirees leaving them at the very bottom for years to come while they draft. I honestly could go either way, but I would much rather see the Spurs working on a jump-start into the future right now instead of watching the big 3 struggle as they get beat down by these younger teams.

Maybe with a key Trade Spurs can still compete, but that would have to be a trade involving something of value such as one of the big 3. Spurs are not going to land any kind of game changer, or difference maker player by just trading their fodder,

[200 miles]

Does anyone believe Anderson can fill that role?

[Bruno]

Battier is nowhere near the level of a Bruce Bowen.

Getting "another Bruce Bowen" is nearly impossible. Some people don't realize how great he was.

[Obstructed_View]

Yeah, Bruce Bowens grow on trees. I bet the Spurs can get one in the lottery. They should release everyone and tank.

[MmP]

Never said Bowen grew on trees, never. Just said about bringing someone to do the dirty work.

[Obstructed_View]

Never said Bowen grew on trees, never. Just said about bringing someone to do the dirty work.

You did say the Spurs need another Bruce Bowen. There are currently zero Bruce Bowens in the league, so finding one will be tough. That's the point I was making.

[ChuckD]

We need bigger skilled position players. When they weren't abusing our bigs, they were posting up Hill with Battier, Allen, and Sam Young. I think we need to incorporate Butler, Green, and JA to play rotation minutes next year. The only rotation players I want to see under 6'6" are Parker and Neal.

[MmP]

You did say the Spurs need another Bruce Bowen. There are currently zero Bruce Bowens in the league, so finding one will be tough. That's the point I was making.
Another Bruce Bowen type of player, gee

[Obstructed_View]

Another Bruce Bowen type of player, gee

I wasn't being literal, so I'm unsure how your attempt to clarify changes anything. Bowen was a one of a kind player, and the Spurs have been trying to replace him for years. There's nobody in the league that can defend four positions at that kind of level. I'd love to find a replacement for him too but it's just not simple.

I've mentioned this a lot of times, but the only way you make up for the loss of Bowen's defense is by committee, getting several guys that all play above average defense and do it consistently. Guys like Splitter, Neal and Anderson can do that. I'd like to see if Butler or Green can do it. I'm not convinced that Blair or Hill can do it, and I'd like to see Bonner get some time covering small forwards to see if he can take advantage of his size and his quick feet.

[BackHome]

We need players who are are tall and athletic and can create their own shot by that I mean can beat their man off the dribble. We only have two players that can easily create their own shot Parker and Manu we need a SF who can do the same.

[cherylsteele]

Does anyone believe Anderson can fill that role?
Possibly, if given playing to see if he can develop the attitude needed.
I think most players have the ability, but the attitude needs to be there to play "D".

[hommeaetage]

I wasn't being literal, so I'm unsure how your attempt to clarify changes anything. Bowen was a one of a kind player, and the Spurs have been trying to replace him for years. There's nobody in the league that can defend four positions at that kind of level. I'd love to find a replacement for him too but it's just not simple.

I've mentioned this a lot of times, but the only way you make up for the loss of Bowen's defense is by committee, getting several guys that all play above average defense and do it consistently. Guys like Splitter, Neal and Anderson can do that. I'd like to see if Butler or Green can do it. I'm not convinced that Blair or Hill can do it, and I'd like to see Bonner get some time covering small forwards to see if he can take advantage of his size and his quick feet.

Not sure if serious :wakeup

[james evans]

i said at the trade deadline they should have went after battier or tashaun prince, but they sat by and did NOTHING while putting faith in jefferson at the 3.

[kromediablo]

The only way we are going to get this type of player is through the draft because no high profile player will want to play for the spurs. Small market town and management will not spend the money.
There is real good potential with James Anderson if he stays healthy.

[Obstructed_View]

Not sure if serious :wakeup

Not sure why people have so much problem when I bring this up. Bonner has good handles, quick feet, he's a good outside shooter and he's an energetic, smart defender. The biggest problem with him is that he's matched up against bigger, stronger guys with longer arms and more athletic ability. If Bonner's going to be overmatched at his position, I'd like it to happen when he's got two shot blockers behind him on one end and has a physical advantage on the other.

If Bonner's two inches shorter with the exact same skillset, nobody would question having him as a small forward. How many more years of watching him fail as a power forward and center to Spurs fans need to see before reaching the conclusion that he might not actually be a power forward or center?

[HankChinaski]

Anderson at the two would be terrific. If the spurs could get that wing from the bucks that would be awesome. I really liked watching him out on the perimeter defending teams. Whats his name Mboute.....chimichanga Luke whatsits. He'd be an ideal player to go after, but doubt they get him.

[james evans]

man i'm 5'11 and bonner probably couldn't stop me in the post. i know he can't stop me off the dribble. all he can do is hit the open 3. that's it and nothing more. he's an almost 7 foot steve kerr

[james evans]

Kenneth Faried from morehead state should slip in the draft, but he's a 6'8 rebounding machine that was the key to his team upsetting louisville this year in the tourney. not saying he's a franchise player, but we can switch him in between the 3 and 4 off the bench for more boards cuz we've been getting killed on the glass this year.

[Avitus1]

A great stopper would have been nice. Wins may have been more obtainable if we could get some damn stops.

[Obstructed_View]

A great stopper would have been nice. Wins may have been more obtainable if we could get some damn stops.

When the team gives up 55 percent shooting and the coach says there's nothing wrong with the team's defense they've got problems a great stopper won't fix by himself.

[yavozerb]

The spurs have had 1 perimeter stopper since I have been following the spurs in the last 15+ yrs...You think its easy to find such players and if so don't you think more teams would have them?

[Obstructed_View]

The spurs have had 1 perimeter stopper since I have been following the spurs in the last 15+ yrs...You think its easy to find such players and if so don't you think more teams would have them?

Yeah, Jack and Elliott come to mind, but they weren't shutdown guys, and you couldn't pick the most dangerous player on the other team and say "Go get him" like you could with Bruce.

[20beastie45]

we need two pure perimeter stoppers!

[Ice009]

I wasn't being literal, so I'm unsure how your attempt to clarify changes anything. Bowen was a one of a kind player, and the Spurs have been trying to replace him for years. There's nobody in the league that can defend four positions at that kind of level. I'd love to find a replacement for him too but it's just not simple.

Did Bruce guard Zach Randolph when he was in Portland? I seem to recall Bruce guarded their PF one or two games and shut him down. Was that Zach he guarded? I can't recall who the PF was that he guarded.

[Obstructed_View]

Did Bruce guard Zach Randolph when he was in Portland? I seem to recall Bruce guarded their PF one or two games and shut him down. Was that Zach he guarded? I can't recall who the PF was that he guarded.

Possibly, but Zach in Portland was not the same player as he's been in Memphis. If we had prime Bowen for this series, we wouldn't waste him on Zbo, though he couldn't have done a worse job than Dice did. He'd probably have gotten some time on Conley, certainly would have shut Allen and Young down, and he'd have been great to have on Arthur when he was in the game.

[Avitus1]

When the team gives up 55 percent shooting and the coach says there's nothing wrong with the team's defense they've got problems a great stopper won't fix by himself.

Thats pretty damn true. I seem to have forgotten that the team gave up on defense.

[Ice009]

Possibly, but Zach in Portland was not the same player as he's been in Memphis. If we had prime Bowen for this series, we wouldn't waste him on Zbo, though he couldn't have done a worse job than Dice did. He'd probably have gotten some time on Conley, certainly would have shut Allen and Young down, and he'd have been great to have on Arthur when he was in the game.

I know he's not the same player, and I was going to mention that, but the point I wanted to make was that even if he wasn't as good back then it is amazing that Bruce was able to shut him down and all of our guys right now that are better suited to guard him just got abused.

[Leetonidas]

This is very simple, Manu, TP and RJ cannot defend at all. Toss in Bonner and Blair and you have a god awful defensive team. We need a second defender inside with TD, and a slasher on the wing that can shoot it and get to the rim.

Manu needs to move to the bench for the rest of his career, he would be hell against second unit defenders.

TP was playing terrific defense early this year. Manu is not a bad defender, he gambles and gets caught cheating sometimes but he is not a bad defender at all. RJ has been improved this season but he still sucks and severely trailed off at the end of the season.

There is no one in the NBA on Bruce's level. I wish we could get someone with elite defense and an offensive game like Iguodala but that's not gonna happen. Battier is a free agent this offseason so he's really our best shot. Prince will be available this summer as well but his defense has tapered off, but that could be due to lack of effort and needing a change of scenery.

[ElNono]

You need something... especially to ease the burden of defending inside. As people already stated, you're not going to get another Bowen, as he was a freak of nature. But that doesn't mean you should just abandon searching for one.

[Leetonidas]

You need something... especially to ease the burden of defending inside. As people already stated, you're not going to get another Bowen, as he was a freak of nature. But that doesn't mean you should just abandon searching for one.

Agree. The Spurs have a great defensive coach so we don't necessarily need a prime TD and Bowen to have good defense. Look at the Bulls, they are playing elite defense while having no elite defensive players unless you consider Deng elite and they have Boozer in the lineup who is worse on defense than a one-legged Matt Bonner. I think if the Spurs got a good weakside shotblocker or someone that can hold down the paint with Tim so team's aren't running layup drills, we'll be okay. I think Dalembert is a free agent this summer and while he would command too much money, he's a decent option as he doesn't need the ball on offense but can score on putbacks and dunks, and he rebounds and blocks shots at a good rate. A little clumsy, but who cares.

If Splitter turns out to be a good center next season, all we need is one other big like Dalembert or another defensive SEVEN FOOTER and we'll have a good rotation with Duncan/Splitter/Dalembert (for example)/Bonner/Blair. That's good defense, versatility, rebounding, and three point shooting from the bigs.

If we got a decent defender like Battier on the perimeter and a solid big man down low, we'd be ready for one more run.

[ElNono]

The difference with the Bulls is that they can afford to play a guy like Bogans because Rose is so dominant on the offensive end. It's analogous to us getting away with Bowen not giving us much of anything on offense when Timmy was so dominant. Unfortunately, we don't have that anymore, thus the reason Bogans couldn't really get minutes while he was with the Spurs.

All that said, I rather have a stopper rather than trotting a disappearing act like RJ out there, and try to get the offense from somewhere else. We're just in a tough position regardless.

[Obstructed_View]

Considering the way OKC just got bitch slapped, Spurs fans should be pretty happy with the defense the Spurs managed to play against Memphis with very little preparation. There's no reason to think that they can't be a top defensive team next season with a few tweaks. This experiment into running offense should help them to stay fresh during the regular season.

[TJastal]

You did say the Spurs need another Bruce Bowen. There are currently zero Bruce Bowens in the league, so finding one will be tough. That's the point I was making.

Bowen was great defebsively, no doubt, but Battier is better suited for today's game which requires offense especially at the wings.

[DesignatedT]

This team definitely needs some guys who can defend the perimeter but getting someone like bruce in that aspect is just a pipe dream. Also, how the team is built and aged right now we would need someone who isn't as limited and a liability on the offensive end as bruce was. I agree that Battier is a pretty ideal fit, I just wish he wasn't going to be 33 next season.

[itzsoweezee]

The spurs need a big man that can score inside and draw double teams and fouls. Good luck with that. Although, id like to see Splitter be the number option in the front court. I think he can be just as good as Marc Gasol is.

[DesignatedT]

The spurs need a big man that can score inside and draw double teams and fouls. Good luck with that. Although, id like to see Splitter be the number option in the front court. I think he can be just as good as Marc Gasol is.

Maybe around the rim but Gasol has a jumper Splitter will never possess.

[Obstructed_View]

Bowen was great defebsively, no doubt, but Battier is better suited for today's game which requires offense especially at the wings.

You definitely make a good point, but the discussion was about a pure stopper. Battier's best days as a defender are far behind him, and he was never a stopper. And very few people in the NBA are. Bowen in his prime could score. I remember him outscoring Kobe in a game against LA. He was so good that he could make a difference and didn't have to score.

When it comes right down to it, defense is more a matter of effort, system and mindset than anything else, something the Spurs used to have and could have again. If you play good team defense, you don't need all-defensive players at every position. Doc Rivers got Ray Allen to be an excellent defender. AJ got the Mavericks to be a good defensive team before they turned on him.

[Obstructed_View]

Maybe around the rim but Gasol has a jumper Splitter will never possess.

If spending the last two years having Duncan develop that reliable 20 foot jumper doesn't perfectly dovetail with Splitter's game then nothing in the NBA ever has. I'd be happy if Splitter started 82 games and never went more than ten feet from the rim.

[ceperez]

The spurs need a big man that can score inside and draw double teams and fouls. Good luck with that. Although, id like to see Splitter be the number option in the front court. I think he can be just as good as Marc Gasol is.

Memphis has shown the value of a really big man like Gasol. He's not very athletic, but he takes up so much space and scores without jumping much. Too bad the Spurs picked both Splitter and Williams before LA picked up Gasol.

The Spurs have not been very successful after they got rid of Rasho and Nazr.

[BackHome]

Needs:

1. Back up pg - a passer who can rebound and get people open shots.
2. Move RJ - You can't have your second highest paid player suck so bad.
3. A legit young PF - Dice is going to retire we need a tough tall PF who can play with Splitter.
4. Need another player who is tough and athletic who can create own shot and has the speed to beat people of the dribble and take it to the rack.


I think we might be able to trade RJ if we throw in Hill or Blair which I would do in a heartbeat!!

[ginobili fan]

Yeah the problem is Jefferson.
2008 the year or all changed spurs destiny.

[G-Dawgg]

Fuck... Memphis is pretty good. They have 2 of the best perimeter stoppers in Tony Allen and Shane Battier and they have 2 of the best big men in Marc Gasol and Zach Randolph.

These are all excellent players in the positions we need most...no wonder we got our tails kicked.

Imagine how much better this team will be next year when Rudy comes back from injury. Omg....

[mingus]

The difference with the Bulls is that they can afford to play a guy like Bogans because Rose is so dominant on the offensive end. It's analogous to us getting away with Bowen not giving us much of anything on offense when Timmy was so dominant. Unfortunately, we don't have that anymore, thus the reason Bogans couldn't really get minutes while he was with the Spurs.

All that said, I rather have a stopper rather than trotting a disappearing act like RJ out there, and try to get the offense from somewhere else. We're just in a tough position regardless.

the best role for RJ is off the bench in a low pressure role. Bring in a defensive wing (Prince or Battier) to take the starting SF role because it's clear this team needs an infusion of defense from the perimiter and post.

that said, i hope Pop works with RJ again this summer (cuz let's face it, the dude isn't going anywhere). last summer it was on his shooting, and it improved vastly. but next year he's gotta have some kind of post game. the guy can post up the majority of SFs in the league with his size & height. it's INSANE that at this point is career he has not developed that part of his game. but i'm not giving up hope. last year he came in with virtually no jump shot. maybe next year he comes in with a back-to the basket game.

it's clear he's not fit to be the starting SF on this team though. not good enough defensively. but he can succeed off the bench if he comes in with some kind of post game.

[TJastal]

the best role for RJ is off the bench in a low pressure role. Bring in a defensive wing (Prince or Battier) to take the starting SF role because it's clear this team needs an infusion of defense from the perimiter and post.

that said, i hope Pop works with RJ again this summer (cuz let's face it, the dude isn't going anywhere). last summer it was on his shooting, and it improved vastly. but next year he's gotta have some kind of post game. the guy can post up the majority of SFs in the league with his size & height. it's INSANE that at this point is career he has not developed that part of his game. but i'm not giving up hope. last year he came in with virtually no jump shot. maybe next year he comes in with a back-to the basket game.

it's clear he's not fit to be the starting SF on this team though. not good enough defensively. but he can succeed off the bench if he comes in with some kind of post game.

RJ will never have a post game, it's just not his style, even though you'd think he'd enjoy that sort of thing (backing into guys).

And really, what the hell is Pop gonna do to help him in this area. Pop doesn't have a clue about how to teach bigs the fundamentals of the post. If you doubt this, just look at the disaster that is Dejuan Blair.

[mingus]

RJ will never have a post game, it's just not his style, even though you'd think he'd enjoy that sort of thing (backing into guys).

And really, what the hell is Pop gonna do to help him in this area. Pop doesn't have a clue about how to teach bigs the fundamentals of the post. If you doubt this, just look at the disaster that is Dejuan Blair.

Well it wasn't his style to be a spot up shooter either before this year and he developed that. Not saying he will but I have some hope.

[BackHome]

The guy is in his 30's he is not going to be able to get faster, quicker, smarter, etc. We were stupid to get him or should I say that Pop and our lack of brain trust screwed up again...Scola and RJ....two HUGE mistakes.

The thing that kills me watching him is that he can't create his shot I mean ZERO lateral quickness and no first step to speak of. That what kills us only Tony and Manu can beat their man off the dribble and score and that is what we are lacking in the SF that and offcourse quickness to guard.

[boutons_deux]

Bruce was a luxury. Somebody else may come close, but Pop needs to go insisting on TEAM defense first.

It was sickening to see Spurs players sagging 10+ feet of their off-ball man, useless since sagging didn't accomplish anything other than yielding a ton of open jumpers.

[Doe]

The Spurs can't find a Bowen but that doesn't mean they should abandon the principles that got them four titles. They should certainly find guys who are good to great defenders. Having a couple of guys on the perimeter with size would help a lot. I don't like the idea of having short SG's play SF in the Spurs system because the defense then requires a double team anytime the opposition's wing is really strong/has a good post game. Even Manu got abused in the post in some of the games against the Grizzlies wing players.

[Em-City]

and I'd like to see Bonner get some time covering small forwards to see if he can take advantage of his size and his quick feet.


you sir,.... are an idiot.

[Obstructed_View]

you sir,.... are an idiot.

Yeah, Bonner couldn't possibly be better than RJ at small forward...oh wait.