Rick Perry Whines About Helping Tornado Victims

[DMX7]

More than 300 people have died and entire neighborhoods have been wiped off the map across the South because of massive tornadoes, and Governor Rick Perry has one question for President Obama: "Why are you taking care of Alabama and other states?"

Perry whined to reporters yesterday that the Obama administration had issued disaster declarations for the tornado-struck areas where 300 people have been killed and not in Texas, which has had some wildfires.

The Texas wildfires have indeed been bad -- 900 buildings lost -- and FEMA has said it is considering Perry's request for a disaster declaration, which would partly reimburse local governments for firefighting costs.

But complaining about helping victims of an almost unprecedented weather event, one that couldn't more obviously qualify for a disaster declaration? Classy.

And yes, we all know it's hypocritical of Perry to complain about not getting cash from a country he speculated about seceding from. We're sure the Republic of Texas II would have whipped out a disaster declaration by now, although with its no-doubt ultra-limited government-and-taxes policy we're not sure there would be any firefighting units to reimburse anyway.

It makes sense for Perry to push for a declaration; it will help some hard-hit fire departments and victims. But the way he went about it....we guess that's just how he rolls.

http://blogs.houstonpress.com/hairballs/2011/04/rick_perry_whines_about_helpin.php

[TeyshaBlue]

Perry needs to be buried at sea.

[Oh, Gee!!]

Obama is busy killing terrorists right now, Rick. He'll get back to you at his earliest convenience. kthxbye.

[coyotes_geek]

While I'm certainly no fan of Perry, he does have a point here. It's ridiculous that it's taking this long to get a disaster declaration.

[CosmicCowboy]

More than 300 people have died and entire neighborhoods have been wiped off the map across the South because of massive tornadoes, and Governor Rick Perry has one question for President Obama: "Why are you taking care of Alabama and other states?"

Perry whined to reporters yesterday that the Obama administration had issued disaster declarations for the tornado-struck areas where 300 people have been killed and not in Texas, which has had some wildfires.

The Texas wildfires have indeed been bad -- 900 buildings lost -- and FEMA has said it is considering Perry's request for a disaster declaration, which would partly reimburse local governments for firefighting costs.

But complaining about helping victims of an almost unprecedented weather event, one that couldn't more obviously qualify for a disaster declaration? Classy.

And yes, we all know it's hypocritical of Perry to complain about not getting cash from a country he speculated about seceding from. We're sure the Republic of Texas II would have whipped out a disaster declaration by now, although with its no-doubt ultra-limited government-and-taxes policy we're not sure there would be any firefighting units to reimburse anyway.

It makes sense for Perry to push for a declaration; it will help some hard-hit fire departments and victims. But the way he went about it....we guess that's just how he rolls.

http://blogs.houstonpress.com/hairballs/2011/04/rick_perry_whines_about_helpin.php

Way to spin it dumbass. FEMA can declare California a disaster area for the fucking Tsunami non-event but can't acknowledge 2 fucking million+ acres burnt in Texas?

[TeyshaBlue]

His point get's completely trumped by his methodology.....again.

[JudynTX]

While I'm certainly no fan of Perry, he does have a point here. It's ridiculous that it's taking this long to get a disaster declaration.

He's only known about them for a month. :rolleyes

http://www.star-telegram.com/2011/04/05/2975807/forest-service-warns-of-fire-danger.html

[CosmicCowboy]

He's only known about them for a month. :rolleyes

http://www.star-telegram.com/2011/04/05/2975807/forest-service-warns-of-fire-danger.html

Judy, the request has been sitting in Washington for almost a month. He made it weeks ago. That was his point about the tornado getting approval in hours while Texas's request has been sitting there for weeks.

[CosmicCowboy]

I'm no big fan of Perry but nit picking over this is ridiculous.

[Winehole23]

Excoriating the Federal Government for high-handedness and interference with the states sorts ill with putting your hat out for a federal handout every time there's a natural disater or the state budget needs balancing.

[Winehole23]

Also, the threat to life/property/public safety doesn't really compare.

[CosmicCowboy]

Also, the threat to life/property/public safety doesn't really compare.

And the California Tsunami did?

[RickPerry]

I'm no big fan of Perry but nit picking over this is ridiculous.

I can always count on your support CC. :tu

[Blake]

Governor Rick Perry has one question for President Obama: "Why are you taking care of Alabama and other states?"


Secede!

[Winehole23]

And the California Tsunami did?Dunno, honestly. Tsunami danger is hard to predict. I'd not be surprised if the declaration was made for logistical reasons before the wave hit California.

[TeyshaBlue]

Also, the threat to life/property/public safety doesn't really compare.

Possum Kingdom lake just called. The 167 homeowners that lost their digs really don't really care if they compare or not.

[Winehole23]

If it was made afterward, I'd be interested to see the tally of deaths/damage to property. From what I heard, there was plenty of damage, and I heard of three tsunami related deaths in CA.

[Winehole23]

Possum Kingdom lake just called. The 167 homeowners that lost their digs really don't really care if they compare or not.Of course not. Totally understandable.

[coyotes_geek]

Excoriating the Federal Government for high-handedness and interference with the states sorts ill with putting your hat out for a federal handout every time there's a natural disater or the state budget needs balancing.

While certainly understandable that the Obama administration would want to thumb it's nose at Perry, delaying/witholding disaster response aid is completely inappropriate. Make the declaration and then play politics if you feel the need.


Also, the threat to life/property/public safety doesn't really compare.

Does it need to compare? Is there some quota on the number of disaster declarations FEMA is allowed to make?

[CosmicCowboy]

Dunno, honestly. Tsunami danger is hard to predict. I'd not be surprised if the declaration was made for logistical reasons before the wave hit California.

April 18th

http://www.fema.gov/news/newsrelease.fema?id=54343

[johnsmith]

I agree with Perry.

Don't like him, but I agree with him.

[CosmicCowboy]

Hell...Manny's New Mexico got a disaster declaration for winter!

http://www.fema.gov/news/event.fema?id=13833

[CosmicCowboy]

double post

[Cry Havoc]

While certainly understandable that the Obama administration would want to thumb it's nose at Perry, delaying/witholding disaster response aid is completely inappropriate. Make the declaration and then play politics if you feel the need.

Does it need to compare? Is there some quota on the number of disaster declarations FEMA is allowed to make?

Perhaps, but the way the governor is going about it is totally wrong. There are entire communities in the South that don't even exist anymore. There is almost no infrastructure right now. Damage totals are probably going to rival or at least approach the 1993 Storm of the Century. 350+ people are dead. To say it's tactless to ask for money when so many families are getting ready to bury loved ones is a massive understatement, and as a Governor, he should have a much more finely tuned grasp of the situation than to say something this insensitive.

[TeyshaBlue]

Perhaps, but the way the governor is going about it is totally wrong. There are entire communities in the South that don't even exist anymore. There is almost no infrastructure right now. Damage totals are probably going to rival or at least approach the 1993 Storm of the Century. 350+ people are dead. To say it's tactless to ask for money when so many families are getting ready to bury loved ones is a massive understatement, and as a Governor, he should have a much more finely tuned grasp of the situation than to say something this insensitive.

Perry's a complete douche for handling it this way. But he did request the aid long before the tornadorama cut it's huge swath through the south. Making a point about asking for money while other people are suffering is sorta moot. He asked before.

[Winehole23]

While certainly understandable that the Obama administration would want to thumb it's nose at Perry, delaying/witholding disaster response aid is completely inappropriate.Why so? FEMA decides who gets help -- it's an administrative determination, and all those deserving of help might not get help. Life ain't fair.

Does it need to compare? Is there some quota on the number of disaster declarations FEMA is allowed to make?Dunno. I would assume FEMA's budget is isn't unlimited.

Are states entitled to federal aid for any and all natural disasters?

[coyotes_geek]

Perhaps, but the way the governor is going about it is totally wrong. There are entire communities in the South that don't even exist anymore. There is almost no infrastructure right now. Damage totals are probably going to rival or at least approach the 1993 Storm of the Century. 350+ people are dead. To say it's tactless to ask for money when so many families are getting ready to bury loved ones is a massive understatement, and as a Governor, he should have a much more finely tuned grasp of the situation than to say something this insensitive.

Our governor is a tool. I get it. That doesn't make it okay for Obama and co. to sit on a disaster declaration.

[boutons_deux]

Anybody heard any complaints about Barry's FEMA handling the tornados disaster?

Anybody heard any complaints about Clinton's FEMA handling the 1990s disasters?

Anybody heard any complaints about dubya's FEMA handling the 2000s disasters?

[Cry Havoc]

Perry's a complete douche for handling it this way. But he did request the aid long before the tornadorama cut it's huge swath through the south. Making a point about asking for money while other people are suffering is sorta moot. He asked before.

And evidently it was either turned down or delayed. Perhaps he should put on his big boy pants and get to work, rather than resorting to this.

[TeyshaBlue]

The grownups are talking, boutons. gfy

[johnsmith]

And evidently it was either turned down or delayed. Perhaps he should put on his big boy pants and get to work, rather than resorting to this.

What work would you like him to get to?

[Cry Havoc]

Our governor is a tool. I get it. That doesn't make it okay for Obama and co. to sit on a disaster declaration.

Actually, it IS at their discretion to do so. They do not have to approve federal funds. As was seen earlier in this thread, money for the tsunami was not made available until the middle of last month.

[Winehole23]

April 18th

http://www.fema.gov/news/newsrelease.fema?id=54343Thx. So much for my surmise, but your opinion that the help for CA was unwarranted and purely political is pure fiat, until you're willing to delve into the details a little deeper.

That said, the surmise that the difference between the federal response to the CA tsunami and the Texas wildfire is primarily political, seems plausible.

[johnsmith]

Actually, it IS at their discretion to do so. They do not have to approve federal funds. As was seen earlier in this thread, money for the tsunami was not made available until the middle of last month.

Absolutely, but I don't really understand why it would take a month to decide on if they are gonna give out the cash.

[johnsmith]

Thx. So much for my surmise, but your opinion that the help for CA was unwarranted and purely political is pure fiat, until you're willing to delve into the details a little deeper.

That said, the surmise that the difference between the federal response to the CA tsunami and the Texas wildfire is primarily political, seems plausible.

Furthermore, and let's be brutally honest here, if I had to pick something to save and my options were the California coastline and the wasteland that is West Texas......I'm going with Cali........:p:

[Cry Havoc]

What work would you like him to get to?

Governing?


Absolutely, but I don't really understand why it would take a month to decide on if they are gonna give out the cash.

Would a stolid, "No, sorry." be better than, "Give us some time to review the situation and we'll let you know."?

[johnsmith]

Governing?



Would a stolid, "No, sorry." be better than, "Give us some time to review the situation and we'll let you know."?

Ok, so whenever Obama conducts an interview should I complain that he's not Governing enough? I know you guys are all up in arms when people bitch about Obama filling out brackets for March Madness, so don't be hypocritical about a dude complaining that his state is burning.

And honestly, if you were in charge of the state and it was on fire, how satisfied would you be if the answer was "give us some time to review the situation and we'll let you know"?

Fuck, I get pissed when I'm on hold with Time Warner for more than 15 minutes, I can't imagine the rage I'd feel if I were him.

[Cry Havoc]

Ok, so whenever Obama conducts an interview should I complain that he's not Governing enough? I know you guys are all up in arms when people bitch about Obama filling out brackets for March Madness, so don't be hypocritical about a dude complaining that his state is burning.

You are more than within your rights to say Obama should be doing a better job. He could be and should be, by a number of accounts. However, getting approved for disaster relief funding is not in the same vein at all as a President taking a few moments to comment on one of our nation's largest sporting events.


And honestly, if you were in charge of the state and it was on fire, how satisfied would you be if the answer was "give us some time to review the situation and we'll let you know"?

Well damn, I knew there was a reason I haven't and don't plan to run for political office. It's a rough job. I'd probably take a step back from the situation and realize that I'm not actually owed any money, but I'm taking a piss on the people who are considering giving some to me. Since tangential analogies seem to be okay, do you think it's acceptable for a homeless man to start bemoaning the fact that it's taking his steak too long to cook?


Fuck, I get pissed when I'm on hold with Time Warner for more than 15 minutes, I can't imagine the rage I'd feel if I were him.

He's a publicly elected official. Rage should be well beneath him. He, out of all Texans, should know to stay level headed and attempt to resolve problems with a modicum of diplomacy and tact since he represents his entire state. Sorry, that's just his job. He gets paid a lot of money to do it, so I don't hold much sympathy for him. And disrespecting people who are considering helping you is always, always a stupid move. If the people reviewing the disaster conduct themselves like he does, then he might have torpedoed any chance Texas has of funding. Fortunately for him, they've probably evolved a sense of decency and maturity past the 8th grade. People are dead and he's whining about money. Even if he DOES have a point (a very shaky one), it's just an idiotic way to be heard.

[coyotes_geek]

Why so? FEMA decides who gets help -- it's an administrative determination, and all those deserving of help might not get help. Life ain't fair.

Looks more like a political determination than an administrative one to me.


Dunno. I would assume FEMA's budget is isn't unlimited.

Are states entitled to federal aid for any and all natural disasters?

No, states are not necessarily entitled to federal aid for any and all nataural disasters. But we're talking about fires that have scorched more land than the combined size of Delaware and Rhode Island. This is hardly an "any and all" natural disaster.

[ChumpDumper]

So are we laboring under the assumption that nothing at all has been done about the fires on the federal level?

I don't believe that is true, at least from a basic money standpoint.

[TeyshaBlue]

So are we laboring under the assumption that nothing at all has been done about the fires on the federal level?

I don't believe that is true, at least from a basic money standpoint.

I think the argument is staged within the context of a disaster declaration.

I've seen references to help from Federal agencies ala the Forestry Service and such.
But Texas is also on the hook for paying for those.
"Since Sept. 1, the beginning of the state's fiscal year, the Texas Forest Service owes $36.3 million for firefighting costs, according to Robby DeWitt, the agency's associate director for finance and administration. Of that, $23.8 million is due the federal government for air support, he said.

Read more on myFOXdfw.com: http://www.myfoxdfw.com/dpp/news/042111-weather-helps-fight-possum-kingdom-fires#ixzz1LDbNEgjk"

[johnsmith]

You are more than within your rights to say Obama should be doing a better job. He could be and should be, by a number of accounts. However, getting approved for disaster relief funding is not in the same vein at all as a President taking a few moments to comment on one of our nation's largest sporting events.

Not what I was saying. You were complaining that Perry should have better things to do, like "governing". It's very similar to when people complain about Obama. So I don't know how doing an interview is much different than filling out a bracket in terms of time spent "not governing".


Well damn, I knew there was a reason I haven't and don't plan to run for political office. It's a rough job. I'd probably take a step back from the situation and realize that I'm not actually owed any money, but I'm taking a piss on the people who are considering giving some to me. Since tangential analogies seem to be okay, do you think it's acceptable for a homeless man to start bemoaning the fact that it's taking his steak too long to cook?
I don't really think he's "pissing" on anyone but rather pointing out that the United States Government has the ability to quickly provide disaster relief and Alabama and the rest of the unfortunate southern states prove that. (Yes, he could have figured out a way to word this better).


He's a publicly elected official. Rage should be well beneath him.

Right, public officials should have zero human emotions.......I forgot.


He, out of all Texans, should know to stay level headed and attempt to resolve problems with a modicum of diplomacy and tact since he represents his entire state. Sorry, that's just his job. Agreed.


He gets paid a lot of money to do it, so I don't hold much sympathy for him. And disrespecting people who are considering helping you is always, always a stupid move. No one asked you to hold sympathy for him.


If the people reviewing the disaster conduct themselves like he does, then he might have torpedoed any chance Texas has of funding. Fortunately for him, they've probably evolved a sense of decency and maturity past the 8th grade. People are dead and he's whining about money. Even if he DOES have a point (a very shaky one), it's just an idiotic way to be heard.
Like I said earlier, he shouldn't have said it the way he did. However, his point seems valid. We (Texas) need some help. The government has the ability to do so.....what are they waiting for?

[ChumpDumper]

I don't believe Texas is on the hook for all the costs even at this point.
When natural disasters, such as wildfires strike, the first responders are local emergency and public works personnel, volunteers, humanitarian organizations, and numerous private interest groups who provide emergency assistance required to protect the public's health and safety and to meet the immediate needs of survivors. Firefighting teams from more than 30 states have provided state-to-state support for firefighting efforts in Texas.

• Fire Management Assistance Grants are provided through the President's Disaster Relief Fund and made available by FEMA to assist in fighting fires that threaten to cause a major disaster. Eligible items can include expenses for field camps; equipment use, repair and replacement; mobilization and demobilization activities; and tools, materials and supplies.

• The authorization makes FEMA funding available to pay 75 percent of the state's eligible firefighting costs under an approved grant for managing, mitigating and controlling designated fires. These grants do not provide assistance to individual home or business owners and do not cover other infrastructure damage caused by the fire.


• During this fire season, the federal government has been supporting the State of Texas with 22 Fire Management Assistance Grant (FMAG) declarations, including 16 FMAGs since the beginning of April; and through FEMA, stands ready to assist as needed.

Cooper Mountain Ranch Fire (Texas)
An FMAG was declared on April 15, 2011 (designated FEMA-2889-FM-TX) for the Cooper Mountain Ranch Fire burning in Kent, Stonewall, and Fisher Counties.

Wichita Fire Complex (Texas)
An FMAG was declared on April 15, 2011 (designated FEMA-2891-FM-TX) for the Wichita Fire Complex burning in Wichita County.

Wildcat Fire (Texas)
An FMAG was declared on April 15, 2011 (designated FEMA-2892-FM-TX) for the Wildcat Fire burning in Coke and Tom Green Counties.

Hohertz Fire (Texas)
An FMAG was declared on April 16, 2011 (designated FEMA-2893-FM-TX) for the Hohertz Fire burning in Palo Pinto County.

East Sidwynicks Fire (Texas)
An FMAG was declared on April 16, 2011 (designated FEMA-2894-FM-TX) for the East Sidwynicks Fire burning in Eastland County.

PK East Fire (Texas)
An FMAG was declared on April 16, 2011 (designated FEMA-2895-FM-TX) for the PK East Fire burning in Palo Pinto County.

Bryson Fire Complex (Texas)
An FMAG was declared on April 17, 2011 (designated FEMA-2896-FM-TX) for the Bryson Fire Complex burning in Jack County.

Pinnacle Fire (Texas)
An FMAG was declared on April 17, 2011 (designated FEMA-2898-FM-TX) for the Pinnacle Fire burning in Travis County.

http://austin.ynn.com/content/top_stories/278084/perry-questions-obama-s-lack-of-response-for-wildfire-help

[johnsmith]

I don't believe Texas is on the hook for all the costs even at this point.

http://austin.ynn.com/content/top_stories/278084/perry-questions-obama-s-lack-of-response-for-wildfire-help

So I wonder what the deal is then. Does declaring it a disaster cover more costs?

[TeyshaBlue]

That's all well and good I suppose. Still not a disaster declaration which can aid the actual home owners and individuals who have lost properties and such. I think that's what Perry's hung up about.

[johnsmith]

That's all well and good I suppose. Still not a disaster declaration which can aid the actual home owners and individuals who have lost properties and such. I think that's what Perry's hung up about.

That makes more sense then.

[boutons_deux]

If Perry doesn't get the Other Peoples' Money from the Feds, he should just secede and find his own funds for helping Texans.

[johnsmith]

If Perry doesn't get the Other Peoples' Money from the Feds, he should just secede and find his own funds for helping Texans.

Jesus Christ, boutons even hates himself.

[LnGrrrR]

From everything I've seen about the fires, I'm surprised it hasn't been labeled a disaster yet, regardless of Perry's pomposity.

[ChumpDumper]

So I wonder what the deal is then. Does declaring it a disaster cover more costs?Yes.


That's all well and good I suppose. Still not a disaster declaration which can aid the actual home owners and individuals who have lost properties and such. I think that's what Perry's hung up about.And yes -- but I can't say what people are wanting for currently that they aren't getting.

[Mike D.Brown]

I understand where Rick is coming from.

[Cry Havoc]

Not what I was saying. You were complaining that Perry should have better things to do, like "governing". It's very similar to when people complain about Obama. So I don't know how doing an interview is much different than filling out a bracket in terms of time spent "not governing".

What I said was fairly tongue-in-cheek. He's obviously trying to do his job.


I don't really think he's "pissing" on anyone but rather pointing out that the United States Government has the ability to quickly provide disaster relief and Alabama and the rest of the unfortunate southern states prove that. (Yes, he could have figured out a way to word this better).

Are people in danger of dying from the fires? They've been burning for weeks/months now, if you don't know about them and don't get out in time, I'm not sure how much assistance federal funding is going to get you. People in the deep south are literally screwed without a huge influx of money. Bodies are still being pulled from the rubble. When the disaster was declared, I believe they did so with the intention of saving lives, because the nature of the disaster was such that it required immediate and drastic action.


Right, public officials should have zero human emotions.......I forgot

Public officials should confine outbursts to a time and place where they are not nationally visible. In this case, I'm sure the residents of Alabama and the South/East don't really have time to deal with his comments because they are busy counting the dead and trying to get electricity back. It's appalling to the extreme that an official in such a high office could be so alarmingly inconscious of the extent of the devastation in those states.


Like I said earlier, he shouldn't have said it the way he did. However, his point seems valid. We (Texas) need some help. The government has the ability to do so.....what are they waiting for?

As has been pointed out, the government is already helping. Perhaps they want to try to put the fires out before they assign funding? It's very unlikely that funding can do anything right now beyond fighting the inferno. In any case, if he's outraged about the tsunami, those people waited over a month for their funds. It just seems that he's a little too vested in his own states' interest. I think it would be a classy move if he actually offered assistance to the tornado-ravaged cities, given the location and frequency that Texas has to deal with them. But no, they aren't a part of his state, so he's got to ask what's in it for him and his own. Despicable in the wake of so many deaths.

[CosmicCowboy]

It's not an "either/or" issue. No one is trying to take disaster funds from the tornado victims. You are making a big deal out of nothing.

[MannyIsGod]

Hell...Manny's New Mexico got a disaster declaration for winter!

http://www.fema.gov/news/event.fema?id=13833

Me being in -18 degree weather is a fucking national disaster if I've ever seen one.

[CosmicCowboy]

Just admit it CH. You and Obama don't want to help those ranchers because they are all rich white guys.

[Cry Havoc]

Just admit it CH. You and Obama don't want to help those ranchers because they are all rich white guys.

No, and poor strawman. You'd think since you use it so often that you'd get better with it.

[MannyIsGod]

I'm too lazy to read the thread today - someone spoonfeed me. Has there been a reason given? There'd better be a damn good one to make this OK.

Still, given its Rick Perry thats whining about this makes for some delicious irony.

[LnGrrrR]

I'm too lazy to read the thread today - someone spoonfeed me. Has there been a reason given? There'd better be a damn good one to make this OK.

Not really.


Still, given its Rick Perry thats whining about this makes for some delicious irony.

That's the main thrust of the thread. :lol

[Cry Havoc]

I'm too lazy to read the thread today - someone spoonfeed me. Has there been a reason given? There'd better be a damn good one to make this OK.

Still, given its Rick Perry thats whining about this makes for some delicious irony.

People in Cali got aid from the tsunami. People in the south got immediate federal assistance after the tornadoes.

This is his, "hand out, please give money or I throw a tantrum" approach.

[Jacob1983]

They're not getting get much help now because everyone is too busy being Americans again.

[Winehole23]

Looks more like a political determination than an administrative one to me. A reasonable view, with nothing but rhetoric so far backing it.

No, states are not necessarily entitled to federal aid for any and all natural disasters. But we're talking about fires that have scorched more land than the combined size of Delaware and Rhode Island. This is hardly an "any and all" natural disaster.It's one natural disaster among others. Wildfires are unusual in Texas, but not elsewhere.

Why must the declaration be made now, and not at some later date?
Would the declaration be somehow decisive against wildfires? Would it save more lives and property?

Why is the possibility that a disaster declaration will be made and the state of Texas fully reimbursed for all the firefighting later (instead of just 75% of it), so totally unacceptable?

If Texas were left to twist in the wind by the lack of federal help that would be one thing -- but that's hardly the case here, and no good case has yet been made that Texas has even been hard done by.

[coyotes_geek]

A reasonable view, with nothing but rhetoric so far backing it.

Well, rhetoric and a two week old request that hasn't been responded to.


It's one natural disaster among others. Wildfires are unusual in Texas, but not elsewhere.

Why must the declaration be made now, and not at some later date?
Would the declaration be somehow decisive against wildfires? Would it save more lives and property?

Why is the possibility that a disaster declaration will be made and the state of Texas fully reimbursed for all the firefighting later (instead of just 75% of it), so totally unacceptable?

If Texas were left to twist in the wind by the lack of federal help that would be one thing -- but that's hardly the case here, and no good case has yet been made that Texas has even been hard done by.

So because the nature of this disaster affords the luxury of playing politics before making the declaration we should all be okay with it?

I guess my idealistic side has taken over today and led me to think it more appropriate to simply give a timely response to a genuine request for help than to use the opportunity to give a disliked political figure his come-uppance simply because we can.

[Winehole23]

Except, the request hasn't even been denied and the federal government is giving Texas considerable help right now. Would a "more timely" response have any practical effect besides assuaging hurt feelings?

Also, if citizens of Texas are in need of extraordinary or immediate assistance (housing, hospitalization/counseling, financial assistance and so forth) b/c of wildfires, shouldn't the state of Texas buck up and help them and worry about the bill later?

Seems to me like the state of Texas is in a far better position to help individual Texans in need than the federal government, but is wary of the bill, or thinks the federal government is obliged to pick it up, and is waiting for that to happen.

If individual Texans are left to twist in the wind because Perry is waiting for Uncle Sam to foot the bill for them, that's on his head no less than Obama's.

[ChumpDumper]

Texas is already getting federal aid for the fires.

Why pretend it isn't?

[The Reckoning]

coming from the same people who believe that texas could be fine on its own.

again. hypocrites.

[TDMVPDPOY]

home and contents insurance, if you cant afford it dunno why you purchased a house in the first place....therefore perry = delusion

[Winehole23]

home and contents insurance, if you cant afford it dunno why you purchased a house in the first place....therefore perry = delusionPrudent planning and self-reliance: too radical for Texas?

[EVAY]

Perry needs to be buried at sea.

WEll said, gentle sir.:toast

[MannyIsGod]

Well, rhetoric and a two week old request that hasn't been responded to.



So because the nature of this disaster affords the luxury of playing politics before making the declaration we should all be okay with it?

I guess my idealistic side has taken over today and led me to think it more appropriate to simply give a timely response to a genuine request for help than to use the opportunity to give a disliked political figure his come-uppance simply because we can.

Here's the thing about playing politics though. IF that is what is being done here, its not probably not good, but at the same time it has to do with what Perry has been doing. Honestly, I'm not so sure I feel bad for the residents of Texas having to pay consequences for what their Governor says and does in the name of politics. It seems to me we're granting Perry carte blanche to say whatever the hell he wants even though it has negative ramifications on the way this country is governed.

To put it simply, I thin that things Perry says in the name of politics hurt people of this nation. I think when he makes statements from a position that is obviously purely political and those statements hurt legislation that could help people for no reason other than political game that Perry has done us wrong. So if the residents of Texas then in turn pay a political price for that, I'm not so sure I'm all that against it.

I won't argue its the most efficient way to run a country but it is what we've got and the more I think about it the more I don't think this situation is all that cut and dry.

[DarrinS]

To put it simply, I thin that things Perry says in the name of politics hurt people of this nation.


Like what?

[MannyIsGod]

Succession for starters.

[DarrinS]

Succession for starters.

Yeah, he was serious about that. :lol

Anything else?

[Cry Havoc]

Yeah, he was serious about that. :lol

Anything else?

"Why are you taking care of Alabama and other states?"

Would be a good place to start.

[JoeChalupa]

We need a new governor. Period.

[coyotes_geek]

Except, the request hasn't even been denied and the federal government is giving Texas considerable help right now. Would a "more timely" response have any practical effect besides assuaging hurt feelings?

Also, if citizens of Texas are in need of extraordinary or immediate assistance (housing, hospitalization/counseling, financial assistance and so forth) b/c of wildfires, shouldn't the state of Texas buck up and help them and worry about the bill later?

Seems to me like the state of Texas is in a far better position to help individual Texans in need than the federal government, but is wary of the bill, or thinks the federal government is obliged to pick it up, and is waiting for that to happen.

If individual Texans are left to twist in the wind because Perry is waiting for Uncle Sam to foot the bill for them, that's on his head no less than Obama's.

So as long "the ends" are devoid of any significant negative consequences, "the means" of political gamesmanship with regards to disaster declarations is tolerable?

I don't think so, but it's obvious I'm in the minority here. So be it.

[DarrinS]

"Why are you taking care of Alabama and other states?"

Would be a good place to start.


That statement is "hurting the nation"? :lol

[Cry Havoc]

That statement is "hurting the nation"? :lol

Why yes, when the governor of an entire state resorts to sniveling like a little child who isn't getting his way, it reflects poorly on our choices for office and makes it very apparent that he has no concept of how to do his job well as a governor. By issuing such a caustic statement, he demeans the very process by which he is asking for help from, and since his actions represent the voice his state, is it difficult for you to see how there are negative consequences to such a situation? Do I need to spell it out for you more clearly than it already has been in this thread?

[Winehole23]

So as long "the ends" are devoid of any significant negative consequences, "the means" of political gamesmanship with regards to disaster declarations is tolerable? You're confusing ends (telos, purpose, goals) with practical results, so the analogy doesn't quite work. If you wanted to say that the delay is inequitable/unfair that would be one thing. Suggesting it is immoral/wicked seems a bit of a stretch. Bad leadership and foolish bluster have consequences.

BUT ALSO: you've a long way to go to convince me this is political gamesmanship at all. You've asserted it based on bare plausibility and fiat. You've neither shown that the Texas wildfires have reached a threshold for routine approval, or that the delay in the federal response is unusual.

If Texas's request is eventually denied, maybe your argument will have a leg to stand on. Until then, all we have is your assertion that Texas is hard done by, despite the lack of any evidence in this thread that Texas or Texans have been hurt in any way by the allegedly overdue federal response to Texas's request for a disaster declaration.

[Cry Havoc]

If Texas's request is eventually denied, maybe your argument will have a leg to stand on. Until then, all we have is your assertion that Texas is hard done by, despite the lack of any evidence in this thread that Texas or Texans have been hurt in any way by the allegedly overdue federal response to Texas's request for a disaster declaration.

And since the Fed is already in the process of assisting the firefighting efforts in Tejas, it throws the entire assertion under an even more dubious light.

[Winehole23]

Perhaps I spoke a bit loosely there. CG seems to be riled by the appearance of disparate treatment.

[Winehole23]

We come off badly in the comparison with Alabama and the SE, so there's a bunch of hand waving about California and pooh-poohing of the tsunami, without any quantitative comparison with the Texas wildfires.

[Winehole23]

In essence, CG is asking us to take disparate treatment for granted, as well as the reason for it.

[Winehole23]

He may eventually be right, but as it stands his argument is more emotive than empirically substantiated.

[Marcus Bryant]

Arguing from emotion isn't a bad thing, sometimes. Perhaps not in this case, but still.

[Winehole23]

In a general sort of way I can agree with that, but FEMA is a freakshow.

We need to stop encouraging it, and start relying more on ourselves. Whining about disparate treatment absent any detectable harm to citizens only strengthens the attitude that the federal government has the main role to play here.

[Winehole23]

Arguing from emotion isn't a bad thing, sometimes. Asking people to back up their own opinions isn't unreasonable either.

[Cry Havoc]

Arguing from emotion isn't a bad thing, sometimes. Perhaps not in this case, but still.

When multitudes of people are dead, and you're asking for hand outs to cover your property losses, it's a pretty bad thing.

[coyotes_geek]

You're confusing ends (telos, purpose, goals) with practical results, so the analogy doesn't quite work. If you wanted to say that the delay is inequitable/unfair that would be one thing. Suggesting it is immoral/wicked seems a bit of a stretch. Bad leadership and foolish bluster have consequences.

Wicked and immoral are your words, not mine. I used the word "appropriate".


BUT ALSO: you've a long way to go to convince me this is political gamesmanship at all. You've asserted it based on bare plausibility and fiat. You've neither shown that the Texas wildfires have reached a threshold for routine approval, or that the delay in the federal response is unusual.

One paragraph ago you were hinting that Perry's bad leadership and foolish bluster have consequences. Now you're not convinced there's political gamesmanship going on? Appears inconsistent to me.


If Texas's request is eventually denied, maybe your argument will have a leg to stand on. Until then, all we have is your assertion that Texas is hard done by, despite the lack of any evidence in this thread that Texas or Texans have been hurt in any way by the allegedly overdue federal response to Texas's request for a disaster declaration.

My assertion is that I don't think it's appropriate to play games when it comes to disaster declarations. That's it. Simple as that. I don't think it's appropriate regardless of whether or not anyone ends up "hard done by". Whether there's harm or not isn't relevant to my position. I don't think it's an appropriate behavior either way.


We come off badly in the comparison with Alabama and the SE, so there's a bunch of hand waving about California and pooh-poohing of the tsunami, without any quantitative comparison with the Texas wildfires.

Perry is a buffoon. We all know that. I still don't see why that must factor in to the FEMA disaster declaration process.


In essence, CG is asking us to take disparate treatment for granted, as well as the reason for it.

I'm not asking anyone to take anything for granted. I'm stating an opinion. Agree with it or don't.


Asking people to back up their own opinions isn't unreasonable either.

It isn't, and I have.

[coyotes_geek]

When multitudes of people are dead, and you're asking for hand outs to cover your property losses, it's a pretty bad thing.

Does this apply to storm survivors who lost their houses? Or is this specific to Texas governors?

[Cry Havoc]

Does this apply to storm survivors who lost their houses? Or is this specific to Texas governors?

I'm 100000000000000% positive you won't find any survivors who are watching the next town over bury their dead en masse whining that the government isn't giving them their insurance money back fast enough. If you can find a single instance of someone in the south crying about $$$, by all means post it and I will admit that I'm wrong in this.

But I mean, those are average citizens. We shouldn't ask state officials to be held to the same standard as our everyday persons.

[Winehole23]

Wicked and immoral are your words, not mine. I used the word "appropriate". I have no idea what you mean, but assume you mean politically inappropriate. Playing politics is politically inappropriate and worthy of censure, something like that?

(little help?)


One paragraph ago you were hinting that Perry's bad leadership and foolish bluster have consequences. Now you're not convinced there's political gamesmanship going on? Appears inconsistent to me. Am I required to be consistent? Does the inconsistency damn me?

My assertion is that I don't think it's appropriate to play games when it comes to disaster declarations. That's it. Simple as that. I don't think it's appropriate regardless of whether or not anyone ends up "hard done by". Whether there's harm or not isn't relevant to my position. I don't think it's an appropriate behavior either way. Eh, fair enough. I guess I don't really know what you mean by "not... appropriate", so I'm unsure what a relevant comment would be here.

Perry is a buffoon. We all know that. I still don't see why that must factor in to the FEMA disaster declaration process. I'm not convinced it does, but lean that direction.

I'm not asking anyone to take anything for granted. I'm stating an opinion. Agree with it or don't. Mainly agree, but your case is much weaker than usual.

It isn't, and I have.For which, thanks. :toast

[CosmicCowboy]

The request was denied.

http://www.kxan.com/dpp/news/tx-denied-federal-disaster-declaration

[TeyshaBlue]

Texas Fires YTD Totals 5-4-2011

Fires: 6,251 [17 new fires]
Acres Burned: 1,837,958
Structures Destroyed: 902
Source: Texas Forest Service (TFS)

Estimated 20,000 head of livestock lost.

[TeyshaBlue]

The request was denied.

http://www.kxan.com/dpp/news/tx-denied-federal-disaster-declaration

One of the comments from that link:

Perry should throw himself on the fire to help put it out.
:lol:lol

[TeyshaBlue]

1.8 million acres and it aint even fucking summer yet.

[coyotes_geek]

The request was denied.

http://www.kxan.com/dpp/news/tx-denied-federal-disaster-declaration

Sigh.


One of the comments from that link:

Perry should throw himself on the fire to help put it out.
:lol:lol

Stop, drop & roll Rick!

[Mulchie]

One of the comments from that link:

Perry should throw himself on the fire to help put it out.
:lol:lol

I don't remember Perry helping my ass out.

[CosmicCowboy]

1.8 million acres and it aint even fucking summer yet.

This was the perfect fire storm. Two wet years in a row, lots of lush growth winter killed grass and undergrowth, and then 6+ months without a drop of rain.

[coyotes_geek]

1.8 million acres and it aint even fucking summer yet.

2.2 million acres is the number I'm seeing published.

[CosmicCowboy]

I've been cutting some new roads at our place through the brush and it's so dry that the dirt is like sugar...the skid loader has a hard time even getting traction to work...

[RickPerry]

Fire is not good for the hair.

[TeyshaBlue]

Fire is not good for the hair.

Word!http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRmvFNRWLxEYeKAAbykwQopY_sq_Siww m-7cb_hJk-02qBwS633

[Blake]

Stop, drop & roll Rick!

lol rick roll

[coyotes_geek]

Fire is not good for the hair.
Word!http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRmvFNRWLxEYeKAAbykwQopY_sq_Siww m-7cb_hJk-02qBwS633

Seconded!

http://www.blogcdn.com/blog.moviefone.com/media/2005/12/richardpryor.jpg

[TeyshaBlue]

home and contents insurance, if you cant afford it dunno why you purchased a house in the first place....therefore perry = delusion

You do not want to get into a discussion of homeowners insurance rates in Tx.:rolleyes

[MannyIsGod]

Why was it denied and why isn't it being reported by bigger media? Maybe it is but I'm too lazy to look. This thread brings out the lazy in me, GFY.

[TeyshaBlue]

Why was it denied and why isn't it being reported by bigger media? Maybe it is but I'm too lazy to look. This thread brings out the lazy in me, GFY.

:lol:lol

[MannyIsGod]

FEMA says they've been giving money all along.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/tx/7549749.html

[TeyshaBlue]

FEMA says they've been giving money all along.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/tx/7549749.html

Since you're lazy:lol...Chump brought that up on pg 1. Those grants are different than what is available from a disaster declaration. When the disaster is declared, I think that some public assistant grants come online for relief of individuals that lost property and assistance in cleanup of same.

[MannyIsGod]

Are you sure those grants don't do the same?

[TeyshaBlue]

Are you sure those grants don't do the same?

Yeah. They are specific to fire fighting operations.

[MannyIsGod]

Will FEMA help those homeowners with out a disaster declaration? I can't find it on their site.

[TeyshaBlue]

Will FEMA help those homeowners with out a disaster declaration? I can't find it on their site.

I couldn't find anything either....just mention of disaster grants.

Wait a minute...I did find this:

http://www.disasterassistance.gov/

[MannyIsGod]

Also, I'm going to admit what CC said above is correct. I definitely care a lot less about rich people getting burned out of their homes (especially if these are just 2nd homes) than poor people being hit by tornadoes.

I hope everyone gets the aid they are entitled to, however. I also hope Rick Perry gets a boot in the ass.

[JoeChalupa]

Isn't this what some call a "hand out"? Just asking.

[MannyIsGod]

I read a statistic that the declarations for fires are extremely low and only done in extraordinary circumstances. Can anyone shed light? I'm looking but not finding much.

[MannyIsGod]

Does look like Rick Perry has played some of you like a fiddle.


The impact of the denial at Possum Kingdom Lake wasn't clear Wednesday. All but about five of the 167 homes destroyed there were vacation homes, so Palo Pinto County would not have qualified for federal assistance for individuals, County Judge David Nicklas said.
Only primary residences are eligible, he said.
"We're still researching whether we're missing out on other kinds of help because they didn't declare a disaster," Nicklas said. "But right now it doesn't look like we'll take a big hit because of it."


Read more: http://www.star-telegram.com/2011/05/04/3051415/texas-officials-hope-feds-will.html#ixzz1LayXAoyp

[ChumpDumper]

You should be able to find the disaster declarations for at least a few years on the FEMA site. I know they've happened in California but I can't think of anywhere else at the moment.

[MannyIsGod]

Yeah I'm too lazy to go through them. There are special grants for fire fighting, but there is of course no type of special grant for a tornado or a hurricane so that is different. Plus to be honest the damage and loss of life is always greater with tornadoes and hurricanes.

Fucking Rick Perry man. Petty emblematic of whats wrong with politicians today.

[Cry Havoc]

Does look like Rick Perry has played some of you like a fiddle.

Odd, everyone else seems to have... disappeared from the thread! Funny how that works. :lol

[TeyshaBlue]

Yeah I'm too lazy to go through them. There are special grants for fire fighting, but there is of course no type of special grant for a tornado or a hurricane so that is different. Plus to be honest the damage and loss of life is always greater with tornadoes and hurricanes.

Fucking Rick Perry man. Petty emblematic of whats wrong with politicians today.

:tu

[TeyshaBlue]

Odd, everyone else seems to have... disappeared from the thread! Funny how that works. :lol

Actually, the thread was pretty much abandoned 2 days ago...but have fun.

[Winehole23]

Also, I'm going to admit what CC said above is correct. I definitely care a lot less about rich people getting burned out of their homes (especially if these are just 2nd homes) than poor people being hit by tornadoes.The sort of voter who can afford to rebuild can also find $$$ for supposedly sympathetic pols. Just saying.

Rick Perry is gettin due for his next option to fail upwards, so at the very least his worthless gesture is probably not mistimed.

[MannyIsGod]

You're absolutely right, WH. There's a reason why the poor get ignored. We don't really vote at the ballot box as much as we vote with our wallets.

[Winehole23]

We still vote at the ballot box, but the choices suck. That they do suck probably does reflect the sucky preferences of better connected wallets, like you suggested.

[Das Texan]

We as dumbass Texans elected this fucking piece of shit AGAIN, now we should be FORCED to deal with the consequences.

Talking out of your ass about everything has to have consequences, maybe Texans will realize this thief in Austin can't get away with everything like he has been for over 10 years.

[Winehole23]

Talking out of your ass about everything has to have consequences, maybe Texans will realize this thief in Austin can't get away with everything like he has been for over 10 years.My own superficially similar emphasis was pushed aside sniffily upstream. Maybe you'll have better luck.

[Das Texan]

My own superficially similar emphasis was pushed aside sniffily upstream. Maybe you'll have better luck.


I fully expect to see him get another term in Austin. If he isnt allowed to, I wouldnt be shocked to see the state figure out a way to change term limits.

[Winehole23]

I fully expect to see him get another term in Austin. If he isnt allowed to, I wouldnt be shocked to see the state figure out a way to change term limits.We have term limits in Texas?

????

[boutons_deux]

TX GOP Slashes Funding For Agency Battling Wildfires, While Also Blasting Obama For Not Spending More

The Texas Forest Service faces almost $34 million in budget cuts over the next two years, roughly a third of the agency’s total budget. The cuts are in both the House and Senate versions of the proposed state budget. [...]

Assistance grants [for volunteer fire departments] are likely to take the biggest hit. Volunteers — two of whom were killed in fighting this year’s fires — make up nearly 80 percent of the state’s fire-fighting force and are first responders to roughly 90 percent of wildfires in Texas.

Perry’s recent boast that Texas is “a model for the nation in disaster preparedness and response” is especially ironic in light of his approval of cutting Forest Service funds when the agency most needs them. Meanwhile, the governor, who one Texas political columnist notes “has made almost a religion of blasting everything Obama does and doesn’t do,” has accused the president of pursuing a political vendetta against Texas.

http://thinkprogress.org/2011/05/21/tx-gop-obama-fires/

=======

Everything's Bigger In Texas (esp the hypocrisy and lies)

[Winehole23]

http://www.fsa.usda.gov/FSA/newsReleases?area=newsroom&subject=landing&topic=edn&newstype=ednewsrel&type=detail&item=ed_20110628_rel_0061.html

[clambake]

actually, most of those counties are permanent disaster areas.

[Winehole23]

You should watch what you say: there's a burn ban in most of em too. :lol