Dick Jefferson

[cheguevara]

Why hasn't he been shipped out yet????

:pctoss :pctoss

[TJastal]

Pop's gonna work with him on fundamentals again. This year Pop's gonna drill him about how to properly stick it in the hole, the art of the the double penetration, and how to stroke the balls.

[LongtimeSpursFan]

Umm, well because you cant trade players during the summer.

[jimo2305]

not yet at least..

[Nathan89]

I wish an expert would rate this thread then I would know if I should recommend to others.

[024]

he's untradeable.

[Spur-Addict]

he's untradeable.

Pretty Much. :depressed

[koriwhat]

fuck him! he needs to get the fuck out of SA already... i still think the dude can help a team, but that team isn't the spurs.

[temujin]

Jefferson would not play a minute in the Eurolague Final four with any team.

Including the one starting Malik Hairston.

He is making 70/100 times what he would be making in Europe as a bench warmer.

He is untradeable.

[Hoops Czar]

Why hasn't he been shipped out yet????

:pctoss :pctoss

Either some of us are slow or they don't take time to read this forum. Could be both.

[Nathan89]

Jefferson would not play a minute in the Eurolague Final four with any team.

Including the one starting Malik Hairston.

He is making 70/100 times what he would be making in Europe as a bench warmer.

He is untradeable.
:blah

[Proxy]

Jefferson would not play a minute in the Eurolague Final four with any team.

Including the one starting Malik Hairston.

He is making 70/100 times what he would be making in Europe as a bench warmer.

He is untradeable.

Not this shit again.

[Twisted_Dawg]

Why hasn't he been shipped out yet????

:pctoss :pctoss

I'm not 100% sure. But my guess is that some dumb, ignorant mother fucker reworked his contract making him virtually untradeable.

[lmbebo]

he's tradeable, just what kind of crap do you wanna get back?

[8FOR!3]

To be fair, he's not untradeable. Unlike last year he has a stock, it's definitely lowered since the second half of the season, but there was a few of playoff games this year where he looked solid. But you've got to understand that you're only going to get someone of equal (unlikely) or less value back unless you add a George Hill or DeJuan Blair to the mix.

[timtonymanu]

Isn't still early to start offseason trades anyway? Wait till June comes around. Hell, we may trade him on June 23, 2011, two years after we got him. Like 8F3 said, we might have to dump Hill or Blair which is fine by me if it means getting rid of Jefferson. We better get someone decent in return though.

[jag]

I wish an expert would rate this thread then I would know if I should recommend to others.

2 star thread. Will not recommend.

[FalleNxWiZarDx]

you can trade him, but would have to give up Ghill in the process... or blair

[Lizard_King]

Why would you want to trade him?

grow the fuck up

[Chieflion]

This team has bigger problems than Richard Jefferson.

[cheguevara]

agree

Malik Hairston > Dick

I don't care what comes back, I want him gone. Here's some trade ideas that would work IMO:
Dick for Desagna Diop and Garrett Temple
Dick for Ramon Sessions and Boobie Gibson
Dick for Carlos Delfino and Drew Gooden


whatever it takes. get this asshole out of there. and include Bonner :pctoss

[admiralsnackbar]

whatever it takes. get this asshole out of there. and include Bonner
Last time we did something like this, we gave Scola to Houston.






SCOLA THREAD! :lol

[Interrohater]

to the Dick supporters:

it doesn't matter what stats he's accumulated, or how well he's played from time to time, or the fact that we'll get crap in a trade for him. The most important thing is that he's a bad fit for this team any way that you slice it. He needs to go the way of Roger Mason Jr., maybe the Knicks want him.

[DMC]

Trade to the Clippers for the injury prone rookie Griffin. That should really make the Clippers a power in the West.

[nkdlunch]

the guy lost his starting job mid playoff series. If he's not gone this means the organization has given up on chasing a championship.

[Nathan89]

the guy lost his starting job mid playoff series. If he's not gone this means the organization has given up on chasing a championship.

It means that the team probably couldn't trade him. I still haven't seen many plausible trades involving Rj.

[MaNu4Tres]

This team has bigger problems than Richard Jefferson.

Post of the thread :tu

[Nathan89]

This team has bigger problems than Richard Jefferson.

Rj and his contract are the biggest problem because it handcuffs the Spurs ability to make moves.

The guy played 10min in a elimination game and he makes 9.3mil next year. By far the biggest problem on the Spurs.

[cheguevara]

yes, 9 million dollars for a 12th man caliber player is not the Spurs biggest problem :rolleyes

[MaNu4Tres]

Rj and his contract are the biggest problem because it handcuffs the Spurs ability to make moves.

.

Not really...

In regards of the cap-space and their ability to add significant free agents in the off-season--Spurs are going to be over the salary cap with or without R.J-- Due to Tim's contract; Tony and Manu's extension.

If anything R.J's contract gives the Spurs more versatility in the trade market because of them being able to take back either small salary or big salary. (Even with keeping the Big 3 intact.)

What I mean by that is, without R.J - Spurs wouldn't have the cap-space to offer free agents anyway. Therefore, the only way the Spurs would be able to dynamically change the outlook of the team is through the draft (long-shot) and being able to trade for players with small-medium salaries (which mostly consists of players in the rookie contracts (either untouchable- or nothing exciting) and average rotational players--if they happen to be out of their rookie contracts already. Again this is the hypothetical angle to improve the team this off-season,if R.J had not been resigned.)

The realistic angle is R.J was indeed resigned. Therefore, with R.J's contract Spurs have more options this summer to improve the roster because of the size of salary. Of course they won't be in the market for a premiere player or anything like that, but they're are quite a few contracts in the league that are similar to R.J's(overpaid) or much worse). Spurs can seek through these options and see if they can find a better fit- whether it be a post or a wing. And at the same time, they still have every other option they would have had (had R.J not been resigned), which I previously discussed.

Therefore, Spurs have more versatile ways to improve the overall roster with R.J believe it or not.

[Bruno]

RJ sucks and his horrible contract significantly reduces chances for Spurs to improve their team this summer.

[MaNu4Tres]

RJ sucks

Agreed.



and his horrible contract significantly reduces chances for Spurs to improve their team this summer.

Disagree completely.

[in2deep]

to sixers for Nocioni?

if Arenas was traded I refuse to believe trading RJ is near impossible

[Nathan89]

1.Tim would likely restructure his contract if Rj didn't have 10mil coming his way next year.

2. Rj sucks and has a terrible contract so it is going to be nearly impossible to trade him.

He is the biggest problem and his contract will definitely reduce the chances that the Spurs improve this summer.

[Bruno]

Disagree completely.

That's your right but you seems to forget some points.

1) Spurs don't have infinite financial possibilities. Even if no RJ won't allow Spurs to have some capspace, it will hurt them. It's very likely that Spurs won't be able to spend their MLE thsi summer (if there is still one) because they won't have enough money.

2) Trading RJ will be damn hard and Spurs won't get a quality player for him. For example, your idea of RJ for Varejao is a pure pipe dream. Even if you add Blair to the mix.

3) Spurs could have had a player with a high salary even without RJ. Bonner + McDyess allow to get a player paid $10M.

[Nathan89]

to sixers for Nocioni?

if Arenas was traded I refuse to believe trading RJ is near impossible

R. Lewis contract was worse but it was 1 year less.

The options are very limited when it comes to trading Rj.

[MaNu4Tres]

That's your right but you seems to forget some points.

1) Spurs don't have infinite financial possibilities. Even if no RJ won't allow Spurs to have some capspace, it will hurt them. It's very likely that Spurs won't be able to spend their MLE thsi summer (if there is still one) because they won't have enough money.

2) Trading RJ will be damn hard and Spurs won't get a quality player for him. For example, your idea of RJ for Varejao is a pure pipe dream. Even if you add Blair to the mix.

3) Spurs could have had a player with a high salary even without RJ. Bonner + McDyess allow to get a player paid $10M.


1) Their ability to sign a player with the MLE this summer is questioned because we don't know what the luxury tax will be set at. Thinking worse case scenario-- if they can't afford the MLE as is, they can simply decline McDyess' option to be able to afford it (if they are 2-3 million below the lux tax). We won't know exactly til later on. So this is all hypothetical.

2) Never said it will be easy. And on the R.J/Blair for Varejao proposal--that is your opinion. Which you have the right to have.

3) With R.J signed and traded away for another 10mil player, Spurs have more versatility to improve other areas by having McDyess' contract available to use still (which explains my notion with the Spurs having more versatility). For example, if you trade R.J/Blair and this years 1st round pick for Varejao-- Spurs can then turn around and have the versatility to fill other holes such as the small-forward position by being able to use McDyess' expiring. Which backs up my whole notion on Spurs having more options this summer with R.J under contract (even overpaid). Simply put, without R.J's contract, Spurs have less cards to play with.

[Bruno]

1) Their ability to sign a player with the MLE this summer is questioned because we don't know what the luxury tax will be set at. Thinking worse case scenario-- if they can't afford the MLE as is, they can simply decline McDyess' option to be able to afford it (if they are 2-3 million below the lux tax-- which will likely be the case if the luxury stays pretty close to what it is). We won't know exactly til later on. So this is all hypothetical.

Sorry but it makes no sense.
Spurs ownership agreed to the RJ big contract. They knew that he will likely implied to have Spurs paying luxury tax in 2011-2012. If Spurs hadn't re-sign RJ, they would surely have the greenlight to spend the MLE this summer.



3) With R.J signed and traded away for another 10mil player, Spurs have more versatility to improve other areas by having McDyess' contract available to use still (which explains my notion with the Spurs having more versatility). For example, if you trade R.J/Blair and this years 1st round pick for Varejao-- Spurs can then turn around and have the versatility to fill other holes such as the small-forward position by being able to use McDyess' expiring. Which backs up my whole notion on Spurs having more options this summer with R.J under contract (even overpaid). Simply put, without R.J's contract, Spurs have less cards to play with.

RJ has a negative trade value. Getting something that will really help Spurs will be a miracle.

[nkdlunch]

RJ has a negative trade value. Getting something that will really help Spurs will be a miracle.

disagree. the hardest part will be getting the other team to agree to taking RJ. tons of NBA players could possibly do a better job than RJ. (Neal did)

in other words IMO getting a body that will do better than RJ will be the easy part. Getting the other team to agree will be the hard part.

[MaNu4Tres]

It's unknown where the luxury tax will be next year, til then we will know more. :tu

At the same time, we don't know any of the moves yet that could be made prior to the Free Agency period. So we don't know if the Spurs will or will not be under the tax enough to afford the MLE. Til' then..





RJ has a negative trade value. Getting something that will really help Spurs will be a miracle.


I never said R.J has positive trade value, but if you package him with Hill or Blair you can get a quality piece back, not a premiere piece but quality-- sure. That my friend isn't a pipe-dream/miracle scenario. Not if the contract coming back to the Spurs is similar to R.J's.

And I personally think you are too high on keeping Hill and Blair. Those two players are undersized at their natural positions, which is a valuable component to the ceiling factor. Not to mention, within the next few seasons the Spurs will need to decide if they are worth extending--which I don't believe they are.

On Hill's end-- Parker just received a 50 million 4 year deal extension to man the point guard position for 75% of each game. I don't think it's wise to have plans to resign Hill for 600-700% of his salary value as of now--because of his small-size at his natural position (which hurts his ceiling and overall effectiveness against players at his natural position;SG). At the same time, Spurs have Neal and Anderson that are more than capable to carry the burden at the backup two spot the next couple of years. It would be wise to get the most value as possible in return for Hill now (if the deal is right).

On Blair's end-- In two years, like Hill, his salary value will increase 500-600%. I don't think it would be wise to hold onto him with intentions to give him that type of contract because of him being an undersized big-- who will become irrelevant come playoff time. In the long-run, he just won't be worth such of an investment. I rather, like Hill, trade him now and get the most value as you can out of him--while his contract is virtually nothing( which increases trade value).

I don't get why you're so high on keeping the two (which is the vibe I've gotten from you in other threads).

[Muser]

Next season's gonna suck.

[MaNu4Tres]

Next season's gonna suck.

Nothing new really..past 4 seasons have all ended with disappointment.

[objective]

1) Thinking worse case scenario-- if they can't afford the MLE as is, they can simply decline McDyess' option to be able to afford it (if they are 2-3 million below the lux tax). We won't know exactly til later on.

McDyess is not a team option, his deal is a partial guarantee.

[MaNu4Tres]

McDyess is not a team option, his deal is a partial guarantee.

Spurs have the option to make his deal fully guaranteed or not (they can choose to outright release him to save roughly 3 million). That's what I meant when I said, "team option", because it is ultimately the Spurs' option if they want to save 2-3 million (sorry I didn't clarify)--that is if he isn't traded away to a team that wants his salary for that specific purpose before July 1st.

[objective]

Not really...

In regards of the cap-space and their ability to add significant free agents in the off-season--Spurs are going to be over the salary cap with or without R.J-- Due to Tim's contract; Tony and Manu's extension.

If anything R.J's contract gives the Spurs more versatility in the trade market because of them being able to take back either small salary or big salary. (Even with keeping the Big 3 intact.)

What I mean by that is, without R.J - Spurs wouldn't have the cap-space to offer free agents anyway. Therefore, the only way the Spurs would be able to dynamically change the outlook of the team is through the draft (long-shot) and being able to trade for players with small-medium salaries (which mostly consists of players in the rookie contracts (either untouchable- or nothing exciting) and average rotational players--if they happen to be out of their rookie contracts already. Again this is the hypothetical angle to improve the team this off-season,if R.J had not been resigned.)

The realistic angle is R.J was indeed resigned. Therefore, with R.J's contract Spurs have more options this summer to improve the roster because of the size of salary. Of course they won't be in the market for a premiere player or anything like that, but they're are quite a few contracts in the league that are similar to R.J's(overpaid) or much worse). Spurs can seek through these options and see if they can find a better fit- whether it be a post or a wing. And at the same time, they still have every other option they would have had (had R.J not been resigned), which I previously discussed.

Therefore, Spurs have more versatile ways to improve the overall roster with R.J believe it or not.

If by more versatility you mean albatross and poison pill, then yes.

Everything you post about the Spurs being over the cap with RJ or without is true. But RJ's contract and it's versatility with being included with trades is shackled by it's length combined with how terrible Jefferson was. He's over 30, declining athletically, had an arguably worse season than the year before, and was so terrible that he was benched in the biggest game of the year when there were no SF alternatives on the table, just Hill and Neal who weren't even playing great.

Why would any team want to pay 10 million a year to have Blair, who is just another Jason Maxiell? Which is what a team would be doing when taking on Jefferson's deal.

Maybe the Spurs can swap him for other garbage like Hedo. That's not helpful versatility, that's just trading one disease for another.

I hope I'm wrong. I want RJ out of here.


RJ sucks and his horrible contract significantly reduces chances for Spurs to improve their team this summer.

Correct.


That's your right but you seems to forget some points.

1) Spurs don't have infinite financial possibilities. Even if no RJ won't allow Spurs to have some capspace, it will hurt them. It's very likely that Spurs won't be able to spend their MLE thsi summer (if there is still one) because they won't have enough money.

2) Trading RJ will be damn hard and Spurs won't get a quality player for him. For example, your idea of RJ for Varejao is a pure pipe dream. Even if you add Blair to the mix.

3) Spurs could have had a player with a high salary even without RJ. Bonner + McDyess allow to get a player paid $10M.

All true.

Moreover, RJ even being on the roster hurts them. If RJ is on the roster getting paid, Pop will forgive him and roll him out again next year after RJ trots about with some drills. No alternative SF will be given a legit opportunity, be he a draftee or Green or Butler or a young FA. RJ will eat up minutes and be an anchor pulling the Spurs down.

[spizzle_tronk]

I'd like to see Dick return

[Bruno]

And I personally think you are too high on keeping Hill and Blair. Those two players are undersized at their natural positions, which is a valuable component to the ceiling factor. Not to mention, within the next few seasons the Spurs will need to decide if they are worth extending--which I don't believe they are.


I'm not high on keeping Hill and/or Blair but reasons that makes them not worth being extended are also reasons that limit their trade value.

Teams won't give you a lot for Blair and/or Hill, they aren't great trade assets for tons of reasons (limited size, limited upside, Hill only locked one year on a cheap contract, Blair knees...). Packaging Hill and/or Blair with RJ won't be enough to offset RJ's bad contract.

[HankChinaski]

I'm with Bruno here. I can fool myself for a little while thinking we can get something in return if a trade transpired, but that doesn't seem likely at all. The numbers+talent of said player isn't going to net any interest with trading

[DrSteffo]

Agree with Bruno. A bad contract is bad.

[TJastal]

I'm with Bruno here. I can fool myself for a little while thinking we can get something in return if a trade transpired, but that doesn't seem likely at all. The numbers+talent of said player isn't going to net any interest with trading

By all means keep fooling yourself, you seem to have a knack for it.

[BackHome]

I'm not high on keeping Hill and/or Blair but reasons that makes them not worth being extended are also reasons that limit their trade value.

Teams won't give you a lot for Blair and/or Hill, they aren't great trade assets for tons of reasons (limited size, limited upside, Hill only locked one year on a cheap contract, Blair knees...). Packaging Hill and/or Blair with RJ won't be enough to offset RJ's bad contract.

I think Hill will get a lot of interest from teams his contract is cheap and he is young and has name recognition with potential talent. If not then do a package deal with Tony and RJ that would allow us to move him. I know alot of people will say NO but looking at the last eight teams playing right now only Chicago has a star PG...